Thoughts on localization?
>>736973619Thank you would be better
>ありがとう>I love you????????なに
>>736973619"I love you" is the line that every couple needs to hear from each other just once so they can officially say they are together.Women place a ton of importance on saying "I love you" to someone, more than even nude photos or sex.
>>736973619I would say soulless trannylation but FFX is a shit game even in original japanese, so not like it ever mattered.
This scene is fucking fine. In fact its better because in Japanese it's more subtle. In English she outright says it, and it and Tidus saying I know just has more weight as its the last thing he says to her.
>>736974243maybe in your quasi-shithole country controlled by jews and child molesters
>>736974160This is one of the rare cases where an accurate 'thank you' would come of as stilted because it wouldn't express the same level of care and appreciation, that she clearly has for him, in English. I hate this kind of liberty, but I can't deny that the translator genuinely recognized how relatively deflating the line would be if rendered just as that and that is would feel odd to leave this unsaid.
>>736974504those children were promised to them 3000 years ago
Alright, which nobody eceleb did a thing on this? It keeps coming up lately but it wasn't a thing years ago. This is the kind of shit that only happens when someone's been telling /v/ what to think.
>>736974863>>736963285
>>736973619You can find the reasoning for this change here: https://www.rpgsite.net/interview/3030-alexander-o-smith-interviewThe original scenario writer (for the JP script) also approved this change
yuna was such a shit character
>Yuna is deliberately repressed and refuses to allow herself anything because she knows she's going to sacrifice herself, she's made it her duty to make everyone else happy at her own expense>in her farewell message sphere at the Travel Agency outside Luca she stops herself short of saying she's catching feelings for Tidus>in Guadosalam Lulu tells him that she'd want Yuna to marry for love but it'd be stupid to marry the one she loves (Tidus doesn't understand she means it's him)>when Sin is defeated for good and she's still alive, she finally musters up the courage to say what she's felt for almost the entire goddamn game>retarded purists take issue with it because "in the original text....">retarded bandwagoners take issue with it because they're bandwagoning on shitty localisationsThe change is fine. It fits with the moment, the relationship between the characters and the themes of the game.
>>736973619i find it unnecessary here. yuna's character is reserved so she doesn't need to say i love you for dramatic effect. it's in line for her to just say thank you.
>>736975271The change is not fine, if the intended effect is that she doesn't say what she feels.Even at the last absolute moment she doesn't say it.If your language lacks the nuance for it that's fine, but don't project
>>736974689shut the fuck up trannylator bitch, you will NEVER EVER be a woman
>>736975271If they hadn't changed it then people would still be calling a trannylation, saying they should have understood what the original thank you meant and saying it was some "tranny seething over a heterosexual relationship".Jeet/v/ just hates english.
Find me an FF10 hater and I will find you a retard. The last truly great Final Fantasy game.
>>736976509>The change is not fi-...ACK!
>>736976509>If your language lacks the nuance for it that's fine, but don't projectThat genuinely is the problem here. In Japanese a character like her can exist and never at any point say the words "I love you", and it can be understood that she's just such a tactful person that she'd never need to say that despite her feelings being ultimately clear.There ought to be a way for her to express that Tidus means the world to her, without having to directly say she's in love, but saying "thank you" as your final words to someone after failing to ever declare this doesn't work the same in English speaking culture and it really would make her look cold.
>>736974689>>736974689>>736974689This. The more I learn Japanese, the more I appreciate a lot of dubs and localizations, because the difference in the default mindset/worldview embedded in the language makes 1:1 translations completely impossible. If she had said "I love you" it would have come across as selfish and inappropriate in Japanese, whereas it comes across as selfless and vulnerable in English.
>nooo you can't just outright say how you feel! you have to tiptoe along the lines and thank him like hes a service worker!
>>736979165Anon, it's just a difference in values.Take a Japanese magical girl show like Pretty Cure, where explicitly saying or showing romance between characters is a hard "no."Now consider a western magical girl show like LoliRock, where the main heroine shares several kisses with her love interest throughout the course of the series.Both shows target similar demographics and share a similar style and format. The difference is, the Japanese show has to play by the rules its audience expects, while the western show plays by its own rules.
>>736973619I unironically just want all localization blanket replaced by AI. Not even joking. It's better to lose all of the tranny localizations than it is to keep the 1 or 2 instances of good localization (this instance of Yuna saying "I love you" instead of "Thank you" is *not* an example of good localization, btw)
>>736973619>Looks like my summer vacation....is over. Why did Yuna say that
>>736979848
>>736973619There's a lot more being conveyed by the "thank you" than just "I love you" but whatever. I guess americans are mentally retarded golems who can't reflect on a literal 60+ hour game that takes you on a journey that would give the exact amount of context needed for that scene. They need everything spelled out for them like retarded children. I guess that's also why they've ruined horror movies.
>>736980047>expecting jarpig slop slurpers to have brainslol. lmao. it is you who is the fool in this case.
A lot of them can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that what people want is 1 to 1 context.If you change the meaning, you have fucked up. Simple as that.
>>736973619ReminderShe canonically evolves into Jenova thus making the bad end canon because she failed to save Tidus and earned the NTRqueen rep
>>736973619Sorry but sometimes the west improves things by 1000 fold and that is okay because humans are meant to evolve together. Yuna saying Thank You is too lacking in emotion. Love You is brilliant because it takes something just merely heroic and infuses that with romance and sentimentality that hits the viewers/gamer hard. The entire scene as done in the American version is one of the top five romantic scenes in fiction and the sole reason this game only should be made into a Netflix series, if they hit these notes perfectly, it would be the biggest moment of many women's coming of age years. Not exaggerating either.
>>736974689>>736978906I completely disagree. "Thank you" with the correct delivery would convey the intended meaning and emotion in English just as well as in Japanese. And putting things bluntly is just shit writing.
>>736981402>I completely disagree because, uh... like, well... well I just DON'T LIKE IT, OK!? JEEZ!!!
>>736981402Thank you would make trannies and yurifags run the discourse that yuna never liked tidus and sees him nothing more than a friend.
>>736981475>I don't like what this person said because I have no argument against, so I'll just change his words to something else and pat myself on the back!>wojak672216.png
>>736977864I wouldn't take anything Fagxander O Dicks say seriously. Faggot inserted spoony bard in everything.
>>736973619Localization itself? Something you'll do when necessary to get the meaning across. The industry? Doomed. Rotten to the core. No salvaging it.
>>736977864Checking with someone to normal people means what happened with Peach in 64. Where Miyamoto asks if Peach is a bad name and they work out something to consolidate the character names. In the context of these games it just means it passed by someone's desk, got stamped and sent. There's never any actual discussion. Why the fuck would there be? it's not about translating the actual meaning, it's just about creating as meaning shields and excuses as possible.
>>736973619Localization good. Leftists bad. Thing Comma Japan fanboy retards much, much worse.>>736981402>putting things bluntly is just shit writing.No, kill yourself.
>>736980047>AMERICANS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERent free, brownoid
Im not 100% against the localizer in this scenario.I can see arguments from both sides being 100% valid. I think its just one of those gray areas with translations.Macarana temple! aii!?
>>736980834>the sole reason this game only should be made into a Netflix seriesI couldn't tell whether or not you were trolling, because genuine opinions are so stupid that most of them would be considered trolling 10-15 years ago, so thanks for dropping this Netflix bombshell. That's the only way it's possible to discern that your post is a troll. Good one though, opinions are actually this stupid nowadays.
>>736981402There's no way to have it with the same delivery in English because English lacks the nuance of Japanese. If she had said "aishiteru" it would have come across as selfish, because the Japanese very rarely refer to their own feelings and desires. It would change the tone of the scene from deep gratitude, respect, and acceptance to one of unfulfilled desires, like a "fuck you, you saved the world but what about my feelings?" kind of thing. The English connotation is way different and conveys the contextual nuance of her "arigatou" better.
original jap line is fucking braindead retarded, thank god the localizer had an ounce of sense.
>>736984154She has her back turned to him and she's looking at the sky. It's about restraint. Everything you typed is just self-serving nonsense after you've decided you don't like the original scene.
>>736974863Some random girl cried at the scene. That's it. Now AIndians and corporate boot lickers are using it in their shill wars.
>>736973619imagine being a slant-eyed japanese youth and your crush stands there and goes ".........suki"and that's supposed to be the best day of your life??? ridiculous language.
>>736984327Don't bother, you are debating with shippers, and there is nothing a shipper loves more than anything that confirms their ship so they can masturbate to it with vigor. The original could have been, "I like you, as a friend," with the localization being, "I want your hot throbbing cock, Tidus, I love you more than life itself," and these shippers would claim, "Oh, yeah, the localization is perfect, there is just no way to convey the sentiment, "I like you as a friend," from Japanese to English.
>>736984407Yeah because of sozens of hours of leading up to the scene, the animation, the way it's shot. The beautiful part about being a translator is that you can claim responsibility for all the positive feedback as you coast off the hard work of actual professionals.
>>736984531Look at Tidus reaction. It's obviously romantic
>>736973619FFX was always corny
>>736984628It's bittersweet.
>>736984407women
>>736974689>This is one of the rare cases where an accurate 'thank you' would come of as stilted because it wouldn't express the same level of care and appreciationYes it fucking would. Your localizer brain is thinking "people are too stupid for this we need to make it clear she loves him" when that is something that's picked up through subtext and delivery.Localizers don't have faith in the audience and they don't have faith in the impact of the original work. That's but one of the reasons they choose to vandalize it instead.
>>736975271>"The original developers didn't do it right, it's up to me to change it because I understand the character better than they do">>736977557>"I'm getting mad at the strawman I made up"
>>736984565I can't believe trannylators are taking credit for Sozen's work on FFX
>>736977864>he signed off on it, happy to give people something talk aboutSounds like a "Yeah that's fine, whatever". It doesn't make it a good choice just because he didn't care about micromanaging the integrity of the English version."People can have fun talking about it" isn't a ringing endorsement of its appropriateness.
>>736977940>but saying "thank you" as your final words to someone after failing to ever declare this doesn't work the same in English speaking culture and it really would make her look cold.Bullshit. Saying "thank you" in your final moments with someone has a fuckton of weight even in English. It's not COLD, it expresses GRATITUDE.I would have bawled my eyes out.
>>736980834>Sorry but sometimes the west improves things by 1000 foldIt's not their job to "improve" the thing they're translating. It is incredibly arrogant of them to even try.>Thank You is too lacking in emotion.You don't understand human emotion or the communication of it at all. Autists shouldn't weigh in on such things.
>>736984885Yeah. And just like how you can say, >死んでもいいわTo accept, with ありがとう you just turn around and that means yes.
>>736984407at least 6 girls cried over FFX endinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obPz1q14Ng0
I think localizers are aids, but this change does probably work better.She feels so strongly about this guy that she does something very out of character for her. Makes it more bittersweet, that in the moment she can be selfishly honest with herself is also the moment that she has to say goodbye.
>>736984154You know what conveys the contextual nuance of her "arigatou" best?"Thank you."
>>736985135Nooo you just cant translate language 1 to 1! What about my interpretations!
>>736984407/r/ that clip but 30 sec longer (15 sec before and 15 sec after).want to see more of the lead up and see if she recovers quickly.FFFFFFUCK 4chan captcha is god damn slow.is this shit intentional to make bots kill themselves?
>>736973619>>736973619For once localizers win against Japanese faggoty reserved autism. Maybe if they said "I love you" more often they wouldn't be jumping in front of trains every week.
>>736973619 I used to hate localizations but anons have gotten so annoying about it in recent years that I'm just happy to see them seethe.
>Thank you.>I'm so grateful.>I'll never forget what you've given me.even>I'm so glad I met you.All of them would be better in this context than "I love you." It's just unnecessary. It doesn't need to be said. Their relationship is about more than amore.Reducing it to an expression of love trivializes it.
>>736973619For once localizers win against Japanese faggoty reserved autism. Maybe if they said "I love you" more often they wouldn't be jumping in front of trains every week.
>>736984327You're right, I was going off of memory. Just watched the original in Japanese and it's infinitely better. Tidus is trying his best to be upbeat and casual and hide his feelings, the delivery is like someone who knows something horrible has happened but is trying not to bring everyone down. He just goes "See ya!" in a really casual way, then Yuna runs at him trying to give him a hug to keep the upbeat vibes going (like a "you did it!" kind of congratulatory hug). She falls through him, the fake triumphant vibes break down, Tidus starts whimpering in a way that sounds like a mixture of sadness and fear as he looks at his hands as he's starting to disappear. Yuna looks dejected because she ruined giving him a triumphant goodbye, doesn't want him to leave in sadness. Stands back up, gives him the most heartfelt "Thank you" she can muster, Tidus accepts his death knowing she will go on standing strong, Rikku waves him off in a cheery way, and he gives his old man a high five.You were right, the English scene ruins it. 99% of what makes the Japanese one work is in the delivery though, I honestly doubt anime dub voice actors from the late 90s would have ever been able to pull something like this off so maybe it's for the best they changed it out with something way more direct.
>thank you so muchthere, now what?
>>736985221That wouldn't have gotten an emotional reaction like >>736985113 so yeah your opinion is shit
>>736985296>I was going off of memoryAnd pic related in OP is hyper-pixelated. You can barely make out the image. So it's an understandable error.
>>736985118>Incredibly selfless character who has already had her big "I am allowed to be selfish" character development moment apparently needs to use Tidus' final moments to be STUNNING AND BRAVE instead of expressing her gratitude
>>736985324>an emotionally complex line wouldn't have caused six narcissists to film themselves crying so it's badHoly shit listen to yourself
>>736985430>A woman admitting she loves a cis straight male person of the same race as her is stunning and bravewoke propaganda has gone too far
>>736983979He's right. It's using a brute-force hammer to deliver melodrama but not much else.It's not nuanced enough.
>>736974689Maybe americans should say thank you more often so they can appreciate it more.
>>736985524>calls women narcissists because they show having human reactions and emotionsKys, mysoginist chud.
>Ending of The Last Of Us>Ellie's "Okay" doesn't really convey the full extent of how she feels.>She should instead say "JOEL, I AM SUSPICIOUS OF YOUR ANSWER BUT I AM UNCERTAIN" and then it cuts to credits>this thread: "OMG THAT'S SO MUCH BETTER THE ORIGINAL WAS TOO DRY"
>>736985569Resorting to this inane strawman is admitting defeat>>736985650>calls women narcissists because they show having human reactions and emotionsI am calling them narcissists because they are filming themselves doing it, culture warrior.
I only care about the final product. Differences between the localisation and the original are irrelevant. I don't speak Japanese and I don't live in Japan, so what they say over there has no bearing on me. If the localiser changes it so that the end product is bad, then it's bad, if they changed it while still remaining good then it's good.If you wanted the pure experience you would learn the original language and exclusively use that
english lacks the subtlety japanese has so you need to spell things out when translating
>>736985717I literally quoted you, are you calling yourself a strawman? GG strawman.> they are filming themselves doing itYes, and? You hate seeing women or something? Fag.
>>736985650nta but women fake emotions all the time.
>>736973619I can't imagine giving this much of a shit about some unsubtle dogwater story like FFX. There's way too much emphasis among autistic retards like yourself on "the author's intent" that completely ignores that there are other factors at play. Language is one of them. Culture is one of them. The actors are factors (ha). The music is a factor. Camera movements are a factor. If you want the "original" intent, you might as well just read a fucking Japanese script of the game, but you better hope you grew up speaking the language, because if you translate it in your head, you run the risk of "localizing" some completely irrelevant subtlety of the intent and RUINING it.Fuck me, I don't even know why I'm bothering. No one gives a shit that you speak or read Japanese. No one is impressed with your nerdy, austistic baby rage about a 20+ year old game.
>>736973619
>>736985650Entire point of the character is that she holds back those emotions and reactions because of her role. The best localization fits whatever fleeting thought the translator has while making zero sense in the context of the story and its themes.
>>736985785>localizer tries to adopt a new persona for the new thread>still excusing butchery of someone's work, still pushing the "you can't complain if you don't know Japanese" angleGo on, call me a filthy EOP. I know you want to.
>>736985406True. Here's my shitty analysis with my dekinai-level Japanese:Japanese:>Tidus starts to disappear>Yuna is shaking her head in a "no, this can't be happening" kind of way>Tidus, trying his best to put on a good face, gives her a dumb cheesy smile and goes "Ore, kaeranakucha" (English vibe would be something like "Well, there's somewhere I've got to get back to")>Yuna shakes her head again, showing she's not buying his act and also that she doesn't accept what's happening>Tidus says in a nonchalant way, like you'd say if you were talking to a friend you'd see again tomorrow, "Sorry I couldn't show you Zanarkand" >Starts walking away, ends with a "Ja na" which is the most casual way to say "See you later" in Japanese>Everyone sees through this and starts getting sadEnglish:>Tidus starts to disappear>Yuna vocally says "No" out loud because I guess shaking her head wasn't enough?>Tidus says "Yuna, I have to go" but the delivery lacks the nuance of him putting on a good face, he just states it matter-of-factly>He says "I'm sorry I couldn't show you Zanarkand" but sounds genuinely regretful about it, lacks the nuance of being the kind of thing you'd say as if it's just a minor thing/no big deal>"Ja na", an extremely casual "see ya", becomes "Goodbye" delivered in a way that sounds regretful and not at all like he's downplaying that this is the last time he'll see themThe Japanese ending is all about what they're saying between the lines/without saying it, the English is missing that dynamic. So when Yuna says "thank you", she means "I love you" and everyone knows it, it doesn't have to be spelled out, the entire sequence is them putting on airs to say what they mean without having to say it because it's too sad.
>>736985792>"thank you" doesn't possess subtlety in englishLocalizers don't know any more about the language they're translating into than they do about the language they're translating from LMAOThey have no redeeming qualities, they're just hostile retards
>>736985806>it doesn't matter! stop talking about it!>seethe seethe seethe
>>736985938Only the most autistic losers would say "th-thank you" as a final love confession in english, it'd just make people burst out laughing.
>>736985818Bullshit the entire point of that scene is her bursting out and admitting her lovethat's what makes it so special and beloved by anyone who's not a literal autistic dead-inside incel
>>736985885I'm not very good at the language yet, but I've been playing it now and again in Japanese. I love the ending, but it always felt slightly awkward and now I know why. I'm looking forward to seeing it in Japanese when I get there.Thanks for the analysis anon
>>736986078You've never been sincerely grateful to anyone in your life, and it shows. "Thank you" said the right way, in the right context, can be one of the most poignant sentences in the language.
>>736986078Yuna says "thank you" for his sake, they're all trying to make him feel better about disappearing. Same with Yuna trying to give him a hug, she's trying to comfort him. Saying "I love you" in the original Japanese context of the scene would have just made him feel worse. If anything, her not saying it shows how much she does, because she expresses her gratitude in a way that won't sting but still gets it across.>>736986153No problem Anon, take it with a grain of salt though, I'm just at the vocabulary-grinding stage. It is really awkward in English because their body language doesn't make much sense (like the brief smile Yuna gives him before she tries to hug him, in the Japanese context it's like a "he's trying his best, I'll play along and try and give him his happy farewell" kind of thing).
>>736986092>Bullshit the entire point of that scene is her bursting out and admitting her loveThanks for proving that the localization changed things too much by giving you this impression.
>>736985885>>Yuna vocally says "No" out loud because I guess shaking her head wasn't enough?It's called emphasis, retard.>>Tidus says "Yuna, I have to go" but the delivery lacks the nuance of him putting on a good face, he just states it matter-of-factlyStopped reading right there. The way Tidus speaks softly in English in that scene is so full of emotion, everything you wrote is complete bullshit. That scene is absolutely perfect, it made me cry, I do not accept bullshit like yours about it.
>>736986219You are 100% autistic or an ESL if you think anyone would want to hear that right before dying, and that it wouldn't make people burst out laughing like they do every other FF line. Then again this is one of the most autistic JRPGs out there so I guess that'd be par for the course.
>>736986273It gave me an excellent ending and experience? Good, that was the point. You want people to have a shit time and not bother with the game any more?
>>736986303The way he gives her his cheesy goofy smile is so perfectly timed with the delivery in Japanese and the way he says "See ya" in the most casual way possible hits way harder than the English version. I like the English version too but the romantic confession thing was not what the original scene was about, it was about trying to give the hero the good ending he deserved and couldn't have.
is the posting fixed
>>736986465The romantic confession is the good ending, retard. Why do you hate the idea of a boy getting the girl he wants in the end?
Some of the most celebrated pieces of media in the west are the ones that make you read between the lines and interpret the character's intentions. Where what's unsaid is heavier than what is said.But when localizers get their claws on a piece of Japanese media it's all>this is too indirect>this is too dry>It would be better if we add a line here and explain things>"Thank you?" No no no no a love confession would be better!>I can do it better>oh wow this really needs to be jazzed upThey're hacks. They're inherently anti-Japanese and anti-art. They think of Japanese works as silly out of touch toys that need the influence of the enlightened whitey to make it palatable and less problematic.They have no business being anywhere near any games, any movies, any books. All they do is make them worse. The best case scenario is when the fuck ups are minimal and the original work can shine through, and they still try to take credit for the result because they consulted a dictionary and chose some appropriately similar words.Even aside from their arrogance and hostility, they just don't seem to have any fucking clue what they're doing.
>>736986352>You are 100% autistic or an ESL if you think anyone would want to hear that right before dyingYou're not capable of understanding human emotions. No wonder you are the way you are.
>>736986394>>736986567You're subhuman and you haven't even played the game.
>>736986571I swear you guys are trying to make me actually like troonlaters if you are going to have such a meltie about the one time any of them turned such an autistic line into an actually emotional one.
>>736986567The romantic confession happened in Macalania during the Suteki da Ne scene. The way Yuna acts in the ending in Japanese is the way a wife would act if her husband is on his deathbed and they're both trying to accept that she's going to have to live on without him. Instead of making it more sad by dwelling on their feelings they're trying to keep looking forward. He reacts like he does to her "thank you" because it's genuine in a way that cuts through his "sorry about not getting to show you Zanarkand, maybe next time lol. See ya later!" act and directly addresses what's happening and is meant to end things on a good note. She's trying to comfort him and find the strength to accept his death all at once, saying that is showing him she'll find a way to be alright and he can rest in peace.
>>736986639You must burst into pure tears anytime a cashier "thank you for the tip" then.
>>736986667I played FFX on the PS2, dumb zoomer. Go cry to your tranny friends over your inability to understand what people enjoy.
just learn japonese lil bro
>>736986726>that autistic wall of made-up bullshitNo, anon. Stop. It's all in your head. Real women act and react to this >>736985113.
>>736985817Carlos!
>>736986981They react the same way to the Japanese ending, retard. Actually, just watched the Suteki da Ne scene again, and that makes the ending even better, because the entire game Yuna's been putting on a good face for everyone hiding her feelings and she's saying how much of a burden it is for her. Tidus tells her maybe she should stop and they will find a way where she doesn't have to live like this. The ending scene is the exact opposite of this, Tidus is putting on a good face for everyone and hiding his feelings, and Yuna is the one being genuine, showing how much he changed her and trying to comfort him the way he comforted her in Macalania woods. That poetic rhyme seems lost in English.
>>736986571>EnglishGODS take cringy low-t autisitic chunni bullshit and put actually meaning and artistry in their words, being unafraid to be completely direct and honest instead of pathetically dodging expressing even the most basic emotion,Stop, you are making me actually like them now.
>>736987087>They react the same way to the Japanese ending, retardLiterally not, because they enjoy and play the English version
>>736984407>>736985113How brown do you have to be to watch people react to videogames on Youtube? Which baboon SEA jungle do you make your hovel in?
>>736987217There's an entire FFX Ending Tears streamers reaction compilation on youtube for your viewing pleasure
>>736981402>Yuna says thank you>Tidus whips his head around at mach 5 because it's just that shocking of a thing for her to day
>>736987217Their zoomers, they can't comprehend emotions or think for themselves, unless a e-celeb or someone tells them what to think or feel.
Just leave it as is. Some cultural gaps aren't made to be bridged, but just acknowledged and accepted at face value.You can give me a 50 page essay on why a Tsundere is -acktually- the highest expression of a maiden's pure blossoming love in Japanese culture, and I'll just nod and remain with my opinion that they're an abusive bitch because of my own cultural values.And that's perfectly fine. I can at least acknowledge that Tsunderes are a thing that exists, even if I don't perceive them the same way because the values are different. There's no inherent need to try to convince me of anything, even though, yes, I understand she's your beloved waifu and you think everyone should love and appreciate the character the exact same way you do.So what if the West would've largely thought that Yuna was being cold for never expressing her love outright? Does it actually matter that much compared to being able to simply acknowledge that she doesn't?
>>736987193There are videos no YouTube in Japanese of Japanese streamers reacting ot it, it seems like the part where they start to cry is Tidus's goofy smile and it's like a constant underlying sadness that builds to be bittersweet, unlike the melodramatic English sudden outburst of "I love you"
>>736986771>being this dishonest
>>736987431All the woman English streamers say the English ending is perfect because it's both incredibly sad and sweet, cretin
>>736986703>>736987163If you were really confident in your position, you wouldn't be samefagging to push it harder.
>>736987458Not a single bit of dishonesty here, only the facts.
>>736987505Why the fuck should I care or anyone else care what woman English streamers say about it? What makes them an authority?Oh wow it made a woman cry that must make it better!
>>736987396>So what if the West would've largely thought that Yuna was being cold for never expressing her love outright?It's more like the English actors wouldn't have been able to get the scene across if the dialogue was translated literally, because there's so much subtlety and the director is Japanese and wouldnt' have been able to coach them.>>736987505It's good too but it's a different dynamic. Japanese Yuna is trying her best to comfort her dying loved one and give him the best sendoff they can muster in spite of the situation, English one is more centered around her feelings and the present moment.
>>736987396Great point, anon.Interpretation is a good thing. You don't need to brute-force and curate a particular meaning because you're concerned it might carry over 1:1. Whatever happened to being exposed to other cultures and their quirks?
>>736987585>(You)
>>736987639>Thank you is the literal for ありがとうLiteral means nothing
>>736987585>people like and enjoy thing>why should I care people like and enjoy thing I'm bitching about?!Your problem is you have autism.
>>736984748I like how you said 'bittersweet' like it's something separate and mutually exclusive from 'romantic'
>>736987545I bet you burst into tears whenever you say you love The Late Show with Stephen Colbert, or onions bacon, or your favorite tranny speedrunner's world-record-breaking Games Done Quick run
>>736987783In the context of the scene yes.
>>736987669>>736987753>some women cried at it so it's a better line>no I don't have any other argument, just that I watched some some women cry and it made me feel funny
>>736987825That's all your soi autism shit, not mine, lel.
>>736987843>In the context of the scene yes.GodYou fucking peopleIt's bittersweet BECAUSE it's romantic you moron. The whole point is they were building up to something and wanted it to be something, but he has to go so it can't
>>736987880Who is your favorite (definitely a woman) Frame Fatale
>>736987907>aversion>disgustShe's blushing though
>>736987947What the fuck is a frame fatale?
>>736987907The way they're acting in Japanese is more realistic to how two people who genuinely love each other would act knowing that one of them is going to survive the other one. Yuna is showing that she can stand on her own because of the strength he gave her, so Tidus can rest easy and pass on without fear and without worrying about her wellbeing.
>>736987907>It's bittersweet BECAUSE it's romanticIt's bittersweet because of the context. This is actually laughable. This thread is the most blatant it's been for me, but you people really need to learn to enjoy media without putting yourself in it. It's not about what you want to hear, it's about the message the writer is attempting communicate. I think that's the simplest way you can put it.
>>736980571Uh, Obviously Jenova is a sinspawn that managed to leave the planet somehow and mutated through cosmic radiation.
>>736988031Oh, you. Imagine pretending you don't know it's a group of (definitely a woman) "woman" speedrunners!
>>736987639The question still stands-- so what?To some people, never saying or hearing the words "I love you" can be the absolute worst thing in a '''relationship''', but it's nobody's prerogative to convince those people that they are wrong and that -acktually- you don't need to say I love you to truly be in love.Just let audience be as they are. If something fails to get conveyed, let it fail. Maybe it just wasn't meant to be something they can understand from the onset. If this simple trush can apply any media in its base culture, it can apply for the process of translating into another language as well.Is what I want to say in a vacuum, but because of the underlying financial motives, obviously things can't ''just fail''
>>736988095I don't follow troon shit, why do you?
>>736988151I just figured you did since you're so eager to defend localizers in this thread. There's usually a lot of overlap there lel>why do you?I don't, I just like to know what to avoid.
>>736974689It's accurate because it's more inaccurate is what you're saying.
>>736988243I don't give a shit about localization, as I equally don't give a shit about troons. I'll never understand why you zoomies actively seek to learn everything about them when you can easily just block them out of your life and mock them from the sidelines. I only care that the original line would sound incredibly awkward and autistic, which granted is how Final Fantasy sounds like 99% of the time.
>>736988064I don't think what she said in english is unrealistic for people who love each other and know one of them is about to die, either>>736988072>you people really need to learn to enjoy media without putting yourself in it. It's not about what you want to hear, it's about the message the writer is attempting communicate.You're simply not gonna tell me their relationship wasn't romantically developed after what Wakka says in Besaid, what Lulu says in Guadosalam, and the fucking kiss in MacalaniaIt's bittersweet because (among other reasons such as >>736988064 points out), they wanted a romantic relationship but it could not happen. It's a complex scene and relationship, but if you're gonna try and tell me their relationship wasn't meant to have any romantic implications at all conveyed, do me the dignity of saying it outright so I can call you a faggot and disregard your retardation wholesaleIt's a farewell to a relationship that changed her life and to a man who she wanted to love, it's romantic and bittersweet and "i love you" is a fine phrase to go there, end of storyI don't even know why I'm bothering to seriously reply to someone deliberately getting off the topic and making a post that's 90% ego-fueling insult but fuck it I suppose
>>736988117>The question still stands-- so what?Do you value experiencing the story as it was originally written, or do you want to experience the story heavily edited and adapted by someone foreign to the mindframe, culture, etc. that produced the original work? With Japanese media especially, the localized versions often do the source material a disservice and cheapen their messaging, to the point that it almost seems like deliberate sabotage.
>>736973619In general, localization is fine when it doesn't amount to changes due to censorship concerns. Can it be done badly? Yes. It can also be done very well, and that should be the standard we all wish to see. Not this all or nothing scorched earth bullshit so many people seem to want to push.The tone of dialog, jokes, references should all sound natural to the audience being appealed to. Fuck weeb purists, I truly hope you all burn in hell so I can get more reasonably adapted media, that keeps in the spirit of the work, targeted for me to enjoy. Really it's no overstatement to say I consider you motherfuckers my personal enemies, for what that's worth. Every single day I see you campaigning for awkward soulless 1:1 jank translations that value base accuracy over the intended reaction from the audience, refusing to take into account the cultural differences. You are an active detriment to the medium and should fucking die
>>736988460>Do you value experiencing the story as it was originally written, or do you want to experience the story heavily edited and adapted by someone foreign to the mindframe, culture, etc. that produced the original work?I don't fucking care, I want a good story and that's it. If it's well localized, fine>inb4 muh principled stance, le no such thing as a good localizationNot interested in nuanceless takes, if it's good it's good and if it's bad it's bad
>>736988512>"Rub a dub dub, thanks for the grub!" enjoyer
>>736988460NTA but you are an absolute retard if you think most translations aren't heavily edited and adapted to explain cultural values to a completely different one. The only way to experience the complete 100% original experience is to learn the other language and culture in its entirety.
>>736988512region locking was a good thing. we need to return to region locking.
>>736988423>the fucking kiss in MacalaniaThat was as explicit a sex scene as you could possibly make in a G-Rated way. That whole scene is probably why Nojima didn't have her say "I love you" at the end because it would have felt redundant.
Thank you would be a shit line. I love you fits better for my culture and my language. I don't care about other cultures. I view my culture and my language as the default, and that's my right as someone born speaking English.If you don't like it fuck off and make your mother tongue the lingua franca. Look at that, even when I speak eye tie I'm still speaking English.I bet the Japanese don't translate COD and have the characters mumble context heavy garbage with no overt meaning.
>>736988649>It can't be 100% exact so we can put whatever stupid shit we want inWe've heard this one before.
>>736988654>region locking was a good thingWhy exactly?
>>736988670>I love you fits better for my culture and my language.It really doesn't though. "Thank you" has a lot more meaning in the context even in English.Have you played the game?
>>736988747Because it made it harder to cross-reference the japanese and english versions of games.
>>736988709I didn't say "it's okay to put stupid shit in", cause that's the real corruption that's taught in all localization schools, but it's equally retarded to think that there's such thing as a perfect 1 to 1 translation of anything. It's especially retarded to think the average audience would perfectly understand any and all cultural contexts without notes at the least.
>>736988649In this specific case it's not even some kind of cultural barrier, it's just line delivery and context. There's no reason the English scene couldn't be pulled off with the Japanese dialogue with good enough acting, but the body language was also timed to the Japanese and it's a pre-rendered FMV so that makes it a lot harder. The level of acting required in early-00s Western context would have been that of a Disney movie or something, there was no way that was happening considering anime and vidya dubs back then.
>>736988512>The tone of dialog, jokes, references should all sound natural to the audience being appealed to. Fuck weeb purists, I truly hope you all burn in hell so I can get more reasonably adapted media, that keeps in the spirit of the work, targeted for me to enjoy.I don't know why you don't just stick to western work if you don't want to engage with another culture at all.
>>736988795I beat the game release year and never touched it again because it's a low tier final fantasy game. Yuna getting over her stupid shrine maiden shit and saying I love you fits fine.
Anti-localization grifters are so tiresome that I wouldn't be surprised if people who would agree with criticisms of localization still supported it out of spite.
>>736988819Absolutely disgusting
>>736988747>Why exactly?Japan has always been a walled garden. That was the example set by their ancestors. Japanese culture is following your ancestors.There is a large movement to change Japan and open it to "the globe", which their ancestors didn't want.Japan should return to being a walled garden instead of accepting the censorship that comes with globalization.Japan can market to Japan.
>>736988856Nobody is mandated to give a fuck about your favourite culture, and it's fine to separate art from artist and appreciate a good work independent of its creators
>>736988906Trooncalizers deserve to be taken down a peg, but it's painful seeing fags fellate Gemini translations cause their too autistic to understand basic language. Then they whine about problems that can be easily solved by just learning to read in another language instead of buying every new game to find more ragebait.
Thread quality somehow got lower. Yeah.
>>736988906>Hey guys I totally hate woke, but am I the only one getting anti-woke fatigue?
>>736989004>Then they whine about problems that can be easily solved by just learning to read in another language "reason for the censorship being needed at the Japanese level" >>736988819
>>736988938I agree with everything you said, but region locking isn't required. Just make things for the Japanese audience, not the western audience.
>>736989024because you made another worthless contribute nothing post
>>736989189>but region locking isn't requiredwalled garden is region locking. it makes it easier for the payment processors to understand that Japan is Different from the West.If we returned to region locking, the payment processors would probably stop bullying Japan. probably.I wish there was an easier answer, but it's clear videogame developers don't want to move to DLSite, which found a solution for the payment processor problem with a national digital bank called Minna no Ginkou
>>736988819that also says "too much gay stuff means the russians will give it an 18+ rating", but that doesn't fit your narrative
>>736973619Did anyone else think it was some character wearing a sombero in the background when they looked at the image before clicking it or the thread?
>>736989304It's still being changed at the source for other countries, meaning learning Japanese (despite being a good idea) is not the answer to this problem.
>>736989447>meaning learning Japanesecome to /djt/, we need fresh blood
>>736989386No, but I thought he looked extremely fat
>>736973619This is a localization change that I'm willing to forgive. Yes, the context is changed but it really is a legitimate cultural thing this time and not a fake one localizers make up. "I love you" has more impact to Westerners while "Thank you" means so much more in Japanese than it does in English and it still carries her feelings for him and everything Tidus means to her. It wouldn't have had the same impact in English if they kept the Thank You. So in a way, it is still a proper translation because the emotional impact was kept intact for the Western audience.
Japanese:>Tidus says "See ya", trying his best to be nonchalant about it, and starts walking away>Rikku says また会えるよね?ね?! in an urgent and pleading way (roughly "We'll meet again right? Right?!")>the mocap is timed so just when the question first lands, Tidus's stride wavers for a split second, then he trudges forward faster like he's trying to force his way through the painEnglish:>Tidus says "Goodbye" which is much more formal and gives off a way different vibe than the Japanese line>Rikku says "We'll meet again..." in a way that kind of trails off, does not have the sense of urgency, isn't phrased like a question>the timing is different so it doesn't come across that his stride wavers at all
>>736989492I'm sorry for being retarded but I don't actually know what that is
>>736985885>>736985885>>Yuna is shaking her head in a "no, this can't be happening" kind of wayIt's a "Please don't", in a "wagamama" (selfish) girl kind of way. She knows he has no power on it, but it shows that Yuna is finally putting herself first with the man she loves but it's too late anyway.>"Ore, kaeranakucha""Kaeru" specifically means "going back home", going back where someone belongs to, not just "somewhere".Etc. etc.It's very Japanese, but the feelings getting across are mostly the same. But I'd say the Japanese version has slightly less emotional impact.t. Japanese
>>736973619I thought the one in the back was a black wizard with a neckerchief and a wizard hat
>>736974689Nah, you don't know shit. Nobody said thank you to Tidus through the entire story. He literally sacrificed everything to save a world he was never a part of. That one gesture alone proved Yuna loves him without needing to outright say it.
>>736989513>while "Thank you" means so much more in Japanese than it does in EnglishPeople keep saying this, but does it really?Is it a regional thing, like the way people keep saying "It can't be helped" is clunky and unused in English, even though I've heard it a lot throughout my life?I wouldn't think that would apply to something universal like "thank you". It has a ton of meaning, depending on context.
>>736989773>People keep saying this, but does it really?Yes, it does in a specific context.Read about what "The moon is beautiful, isn't it" means in Japanese in some contexts
>>736989702Thanks for the clarification. Didn't know about wagamama and I thought kaeru was a more general "return to someplace you've been" kind of thing, I missed the "return home" nuance.
A friendly word of advice, If you want to cry about localization changes. Don't use an example where reasonable people universally agree this change was better.
>>736973619I only play video games in Japanese. Yes I'm serious. Fuck localization/censorship.
>>736989589>I'm sorry for being retarded but I don't actually know what that is/daily japanese thread/ on /jp/come to us and learn japanese
>>736989865Man, if they had left Yuna's "thank you" as is in English, you'd have seen anons rioting in the streets and going "WOW WHY IS YUNA SUCH A BITCH, AFTER ALL HE HAS DONE FOR HER"
>>736984953Bro nobody says 'whatever' when they're entirely invested in their waifu. Anyone with a grain of passion, especially one who is consulted for direction wouldn't non-chalantly say whatever.you're the one projecting mate. but there's hope for you., theres agood video on yt that teaches you how to become aware of it.
>>736989773Things are changing with the younger generations, but in Japan, especially back in the day, it was seen as "common sense" and "good manners" saying things in a roundabout way, especially when whatever you're trying to get across may cause (any kind) of emotional discomfort in the person you're talking to.Quite famous is a story of a lady from Kyoto who had a neighbor whose daughter practiced her skills with the piano late at night. One day she met the neighbor and said "Your daughter sure is very good at playing the piano, I always hear her late in the evening". The real message was "MAKE YOUR FUCKING DAUGHTER STOP PLAYING WHILE I'M TRYING TO SLEEP", and the neighbor understood.
>can understand the weight of arigatou just fine>can't understand the weight of thank you because... nobody can, okay!?
>>736973859no it wouldn't
>>736974997Minnesota has an accent???
A better translation would've been "Thank you for everything."The "I love you" translation is too on the nose and direct, and this is Japanese-influenced characters we're talking about; when she says "Arigatou/Thank you", the love and care she has for Tidus is implied but the "barrier of respect" prevents her from saying it directly, partly out of shyness partly out of Japanese dynamics of saying things without saying them directly like when you want to tell a girl she is beautiful you instead say "the moon is really beautiful tonight".All of these intricacies and dynamics go out the window, "I love you" is a translation made for Americans, there is no subtlety because they cannot understand subtlety.
>>736990581>deliberately ignoring the problem of being unable to change the animations and having to fit whatever line they chose to them just to take cheap shots at your least favorite nationalityWeeb
>>736989930Cool, I'll do that! Thanks anon.
>>736989956>Man, if they had left Yuna's "thank you" as is in English, you'd have seen anons rioting in the streets and going "WOW WHY IS YUNA SUCH A BITCH, AFTER ALL HE HAS DONE FOR HER"Of all the weird hypothetical strawmen in this thread, this is the weirdest.She is literally expressing a heartfelt THANK YOU. Nobody sane would perceive that as ingratitude.
>>736977628Too linear and the endgame content was either infuriating or merely tedious.FF13 does it better, the endgame hunts respect the player's time better.
>>736973619looks like there's a mexican on the background
>the only good translation is a literal one!Cool, how would you translate something that relies on Japanese wordplay?
>>736992687Literally and a TL note.gg ez no re
>>736984407That clip is 6 years old.
>>736993174Hope the streamer is no longer streaming and is a mother.
>>736979918>>736979848kek
>>736993174out of ten!
>>736986571>They're inherently anti-Japanese and anti-art.They're anti-intellectuals, like all leftist troons. They don't understand subtext or nuance, they only understand materialism. That's why they chop their balls off to feel like women instead of just being sassy homos. Discussing any sort of media with them ultimately devolves to a grade-school level, whereupon they regurgitate garbage analyses of novels they learned in english class taught by a 40-year old lesbian. They also love to parrot "death of the author," even though none of them have ever had an original thought in their lives. It's also why all their video essays are just longwinded recaps of the events of the story, with, at best, a surface reading of themes at the end.
Retards can barely understand the HA HA HA scene with full context. There’s no fucking way they could trust the general public to understand “thank you” as a final line
>>736984327>>736984531make your samefagging less obvious next time
>>736985296>>736985406>>736985885>t.
Love FFs but I try to avoid FF threads because lot of anons have wrong opinions and then we have shitters who haven't even played the games but still feel the need to post
>see you guys >”I love you”>oh hey it was great traveling with you too>jumps off airship
>>736977864>he said okay>oh and he also said this in Japanese; he doesn’t understand English that well
>>736997848Yeah, a lot of people think she said "I love you," when it was really "thank you." You can tell people a bunch of EOPs have never played the Japanese version because of it.
>>737001437I 100%'d the game, cleared Monster Arena, killed Dark Aeons and killed Penance. After all that Yuna said "I love you". I guess she says thank you if you don't 100% the game.
>>737001640You played inaccurate English version.
>>737001640>>737001691I looked it up and the og Japanese version doesnt have Dark Aeons nor Penance. So yeah, the "I love you" was for big dicked western gamers.
>>737001752For monolingual idiots*
>>737001774Sorry but Yuna doesnt love you unless you beat the dark aeons and Penance
>>736978906>The more I learn Japanese, the more I appreciate a lot of dubs and localizationsThose who don't know any Japanese appreciate dubs and localisationsThose who learn even a little bit of Japanese hate dubs and localisations for being unfaithfulThose who learn a lot of Japanese appreciate dubs and localisations
>>736973619No problem with this since it's obvious she loves him and the meaning is there but disguised behind Japanese autism that deflates the moment. It's just one thing where Japanese does not translate across well into English. The point of localisation isn't to just 1:1 everything but to also translate across the meaning without butchering it.
>>736994442>/v/ accusing anyone else of being anti-intellectualNow excuse me, I must return to my original Japanese version of Underage Panty Quest LXVIII, the localisation just wasn't able to capture the NUANCE, not that I'd expect an unschooled pleb to have any appreciation for that
>>737001815She loves you, but she doesn't say it, because the scriptwriters didn't intend for it to be explicit.
>>736990581>All of these intricacies and dynamics go out the window, "I love you" is a translation made for Americans, there is no subtlety because they cannot understand subtlety.That... is the problem that localisation is meant to address, yesSo the localiser did an excellent job here
>>737001890That would be an error in translation, since the intended meaning was to thank him, not profess love. If the scriptwriter intended for her to say "I love you," he would've explicitly written 愛してるよ or something to that effect.
>>737001967That has nothing to do with localization. Changing ramen to burgers would be a form of localization. Making a character with a Kansai accent speak in a Southern drawl would be localization.This is just a mistranslation (or perhaps a deliberate rewrite on the part of the translator).
>>736983019People hate spoony bard now?
>>737002096No, it is a good example of localisation, for the reasons already extensively covered ITT. You have a layperson's naïve understanding of translation.
>>737002159No, I have an exceptional understanding of both Japanese and English, and I actually understand the semantic difference between "thank you" and "I love you"
>>737002224>No, I have an exceptional understanding of both Japanese and EnglishThat you think this is all the qualification you need only confirms what I said.
>final fantasy X ends with Tidus going "I have to go now my planet needs me"very touching
>>737002269I doubt you even speak Japanese.
>>736974689Hey, you know what actors are paid to do? Convey meaning and subtext through their words and how they say them. They aren't supposed to just read their lines like a robot, they're suppose to infuse those lines with the emotions the characters are feeling. Thank you would have been fine, conveying the meaning is the actors job.
>>737002329But I understand translation better than you do.
>>737002331His argument is wrong from the outset. He's creating a bunch of false reasons why ありがとう, in this particular instance, doesn't mean "thank you" in English. This is factually and semantically wrong, no matter the context.>>737002374Like I said, you don't know Japanese. You don't even know the etymology of ありがとう or what it literally means without looking it up.
>>736973619I love me some EXTRA spice and secret ingredientshttps://files.catbox.moe/pxraig.mp4
>>737002409Your argument is fundamentally flawed because it relies on false assumptions surroudning fidelity, and it's obvious you don't even know how much you don't know when it comes to translation. You're a premature ejaculator bragging about the size of his dick.
>>736981402ESL or Autistic?
>>737002465>throw away the boring raw translation>write whatever you want that kind of fits it based on the vibes of the scene insteadI look like THIS and I do THAT. And I hope it makes you seethe as much as it makes regular, well-adjusted people smile.
>>737002586Nope, my argument is based on fact. The only argument you have is that you don't like how she said it.
>>737002465This is one of those things where the layman will notice that they translated Aerith's "you're adorable / so cute" as "wow," but every other line is also wrong.>EN: Hah hah, very funny. I could've shot you!>JP: Oh, it's just you guys. Don't scare me like that!>EN: It's not like I had a choice! Nothing else fit!>JP: Stop laughing! I didn't have a choice!Don't get me started on the rest of these. This is Working Designs-tier.
>>737002863I never disputed any facts btwYou don't understand what the argument is even about, such is your deficiency in relevant knowledge
>>737002124>original: なにがちがうと いうのだ!>literal: How the hell could it not be like that!?>SNES: You spoony bard!Only trannies and EOP faggots like Spoony Bard.
>>737003368It's obvious you're defending the rewrite. The problem is that you're simultaneously claiming it's semantically accurate.
>>737003413Your problem is your inability to recognise that it is.
>>737003465Find me one dictionary which affirms that and I'll concede.
>>737003485You keep proving my point for me over and over. You think translators fail unless they are slaves to the dictionary - which shows your failure to grasp semantics. As if this alleged "mistake" was the result of someone opening their dictionary to the wrong page. No, this was obviously a conscious decision, and it's up to you to try to understand why it was made.
>>737003573Yes, yes, I know you have no proof. Thank you for proving my point.
>>737003630Look, I know you actually know better and you're only pretending. I know you don't actually think that citing the dictionary at me is a convincing argument and that you know it is entirely besides the point. Just as I am treating you as if you were simply ignorant instead of intentionally obtuse. You're pretending to argue in good faith and I'm indulging you. Obviously neither of us is going to convince the other and we're only going through the motions of a debate when in reality no such thing is taking place here.
>>736974504your tuck is slipping
>>737003793Oh, I'm not pretending. I don't know if you know this, but dictionaries are generally the things you use to settle debates over word meanings.You claiming that they're not applicable here shows you don't have an argument other than "I like how this line sounds better."
>>737003882Yes, you are pretending - you know that this argument is not even remotely about the contents of a Japanese-English dictionary, as if a localiser would have no access to one. You are clearly only pretending that this is the argument because you cannot argue the real point. If you're going to feign ignorance, I'll just dismiss you as ignorant, though.
>>737003989An intentional rewrite is still a rewrite, Chatgpt anon.
>>736973619I thought I saw a weird looking monkey gremlin thing in the background, but it's just Tidus
>>736987217>>736987384what are you schizomaxxed blackpilled retards talking about? i can tell you are both new to this whole internet thing because reaction videos have been one of the most popular categories since youtubes inception.
>>737004042Yes, you want to know how to render it without rewriting?ありがとう>Chatgpt anonThe irony
>>737004123You render it as "thank you," because that's all it means. It does not mean "I love you" in any context. No dictionary will support that. Hell, no other translation will render it like that.
>>737004095>i can tell you are both new to this whole internet thing because reaction videos have been one of the most popular categories since youtubes inception.I've been to 4chan since 2004 and I've never watched a reaction video or Let's Play or a TikTok. I make money drawing Tifa fetish art.
>>736981402Ok JD Vance
>>737004225All translation is rewriting by definition, and a skillful translation takes into account context and connotation in addition to mere denotation, and adapts them to the target audience. I'm sorry to accuse you of feigning ignorance, I believe it may have been, to a large degree, genuine after all.
>>737004271are you the guy that draws fetish pics of girls wrestling
Arigato 3 syllablesThank You 2 syllablesI Love You 3 syllablesIt's just easier to translate into I Love You and have the mouth animation match
>>737002331>Hey, you know what actors are paid to do? Convey meaning and subtext through their words and how they say them.Certainly. I'm hardly defending FFX's voice direction, which I consider completely inadequate at best. I'm actually shocked at how much praise the voicework typically gets, especially since there are so many weak performances here from actors I actually respect quite a bit.>>737002409I feel like people's attitudes to Japanese, like it's this super esoteric thing where you have to pay attention to a bazillion clues to properly understand the implied meaning of anything compared to English, are backwards. It's English that's the basically weird language where you're forced to qualify an excessive number of things that you otherwise wouldn't have to to get your basic intentions across.ありがとう is Yuna's straightforward, frank expression of how much she appreciates the man who's given his life for her, in her place. It's simple, no elaboration is needed, and in fact would deflate the moment. She really and truly is thankful for him in the utmost way someone can be.In English, something like >>736990581 "Thank you, for everything" is the least she would need to say to not undersell this intent. It's not that the Japanese has 'hidden meaning', it's that in English, leaving out the "for everything" implies something less than that.
Only perma virgin loser hate this scene & translation.
>>737004309No, translations are not "rewriting." They are careful reproductions of one language's words and phrases into another. Stop bullshitting, my god.
>>737004369Eh, depends on the sentence. Sometimes English can express a concept that would take a Japanese person more words to explain. A good example of this is in MW2, when Shepherd tells the player, "Rangers lead the way!" as a reminder of their motto and to compel him to come to. A direct translation in Japanese makes it sound like he's telling the player that Rangers are currently opening up a path. To convey this is rallying cry, we'd need punctuation or even the copula, i.e., 「レンジャーが道を拓く」だ!But this isn't the case in FFX. Yuna's intention with saying "thank you" is semantically clear, if not a little reserved in both languages.
>>737004415>They are careful reproductions of one language's words and phrases into anotherLMAOTranslations reproduce MEANING, not words. Words are signifiers, not the signified. Indeed, translation works precisely and only because we can use DIFFERENT words and phrases to convey the same thing. ありがとう is not "thank you", it is ありがとう. It is said by the Japanese in contexts where an English person might say "thank you" or "thanks" and that is what makes it an accurate translation in most cases. But if we're arguing accuracy, if we're going to translate "thank you" word for word into Japanese, shouldn't it be a construction involving a verb and a pronoun? There's clearly no word-for-word equivalence here, and you rely on context to determine the semantics.
I love how this one line shows how full of subtlety the supposed dry japanese language is while showing how stupid English-speaking people can be.
>>737004912Nah, it just shows how localizers change things to whatever they feel like.The localizer liked "I love you", so they inserted "I love you". Any statements provided is just politician talk.
>>737002269Oh you're the dishonest thread camping localizer faggot that thinks working in the industry and having a passion for vandalizing every game you get your slimy hands on makes you an "authority", even though your work requires no real skill whatsoever.Or any kind of understanding at all, judging by how often you get it completely wrong, and then double down on the mistakes of you and your loathsome peers.Your "understanding of translation" is just a fiction you tell yourself so you can feel superior. It confers on you no actual insight. Only bias, blindness and stubbornness.tl;dr get fucked
>>737004359Syllable matching is the best argument for "I love you" in the whole thread, and it's still a shit one.And arigato is four fucking syllables.
>>737005160I have no idea who you're referring to and I don't work in localisation, but if the job requires no understanding, then your understanding is in the negatives.
>>737005265>I have no idea who you're referring toYes you do, coward.>if the job requires no understanding, then your understanding is in the negatives.If I'm mistaken, it's only because the people actually doing the job demonstrate no understanding at all. But actually, you're right, I should not have phrased it in those terms.The job does require understanding. Just not the way you do it. You butcher everything you come across and then pat yourself on the back for it. You are unfit to even look at these works, let alone attempt to translate them for the perusal of others.
>>737005064Your preferred translation is also just what you like.
>>737005064>>737005160>>737005228>10 minute long rant spreeHoly SHIT you're fucking mad"I love you" is fine given the context, get over yourself you wannabe snob faggot
>>737005228It's not if you say the "ari" in one go
>>737005381Sorry about your mental illness lmao
>>737005386My preference is what the writer wrote. Your preference is what the fan fiction doujin writer wrote. We are not the same.
>>737005386You would project that onto him, since you think that's what all translation is.In reality, some people actually care about being true to the source.
>>736973619I don't think the scene changes substantially either way.
>>736973859The US always ruin everything
>>737005396>can't count syllables OR minuteskek
>>737005537>My preference is what the writer wrote.So, Japanese?>>737005550No, it's literally a fact. It's simply a matter of preference - unless we get into semantics, but you're unwilling to go down that road too far because it doesn't work out in your favour. >In reality, some people actually care about being true to the source.Yes, like the localiser was in this case, and then there's people like you who prefer being true to a dictionary instead.
>>737005712>put completely different words in her mouth and change the meaning of the scene substantially>true to the sourceWhy lie so obviously?
>>737005856Here you go again, pretending not to understand the argument.
>>737005916No, it's just a shitty argument that doesn't accord with reality. You're simply desperate to rationalize the vandalism of your localizer buddies, and you'll twist yourself into a pretzel of rhetorical dishonesty to do it.While pretending not to be the guy that's been doing that exact same thing in every other thread, by the way.
>>737005712>Yes, like the localiser was in this caseNot the anon, but how is he more true by literally changing the line?I know anon, your interpretation of the words means it's much more fitting but at this point, were discussing interpretation of sentences and what they mean for loving couples, and not translation. For someone wanting to avoid a discussion about semantics, you really are too dense to realise you're discussing something else entirely too. Because, and you may wanna sit down for this, he could've translated the line literally, and still have the intended emotion conveyed, simply through the actor's emotion while saying those lines. But he went the cheaper way, because Americans are retarded and obviously they wouldn't get that, and the trannyslator wanted it to be unmistakable. Which means, he sucks.
The rule stays true. >no matter how stupid the mistranslation >someone will enter the thread and fight tooth an nail defending itIt's just hilarious to me
>>736981523Mindbroken
>>737004905A word-for-word equivalence would technically be an adverbial compound meaning "difficult to exist," as in something rare or hard to come by, and so conveying something the speaker is grateful towards. Semantically, it just means "thank you," therefore "I love you" is never a proper translation.
>>737006208>someoneIt's just the same guy 99% of the time. He's an industry shill who camps for these threads so he can run interference.
>>737005557I don't think that takes away from it being a mistranslation
>>737006147All translation is interpretation, and in fact to translate ありがとう as "thank you" is changing the line already, only in a more conventional way. Interestingly, expressions of gratitude and expressions of affections aren't even that far apart, semantically.If I receive a gift and I say "I love it!" I am actually expressing gratitude, but if I tell someone "I'm grateful to have you in my life," that's affection. So the point is that the localiser asked not "what does the dictionary say it means" but rather "what is this intended to convey within the context of this story". Which is the better approach. And you may disagree with their interpretation. But literally none of you are even arguing on this level of understanding. You're all just stuck on the dictionary.
>>736973619Why did Final Fantasy become a soap opera?
>>737004905>Translations reproduce MEANING, not words.Meaning is for the audience to interpret. Not for you to dictate and shove at them.
>>737005396The context doesn't magically change what she meant, retard.
>>737006141>>737006270Such a great comeback you had to post it twice lolStop projecting your mental illness onto me, not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person and not everyone obsessively posts in every fucking thread on the topic like you apparently do.
>>737006421So she didn't love him?
>>736973619just get out of my sight im playing in japanese
>>737006437>not everyone who disagrees with you is the same personNot everyone. But you've posted enough times for your patterns and your dishonest methods to become apparent.You're pretending not to be you because you got destroyed last thread and you needed a new persona.
>>736974689"thank you for everything" would have been enough
>>737006254My point exactly. It doesn't literally mean "thank you" - we conventionally translate it as "thank you" because generally speaking you'd use it in the same context as "thank you", to express your gratitude. But we're not speaking generally, we're speaking specifically about a particular scene in a particular story, and given that context (as well as the semantic overlap between gratitude and affection that I pointed out here >>737006379) this translation choice is absolutely justified, and your competing interpretation is by no means the only one. >>737006417Translators are interpreters. It's part of the job. If you want unmediated access to the original to interpret it for yourself, unironically, learn Japanese, because that's the only way you'll get it.
>>737006482Is that a real argument?
>>736974243The love confession is like some last desperate "pls don't go" begging, while the original shows the immense of strength of accepting death is inevitable but it won't undo the good that happened. But that's not something americans could ever understand
>>737006625We translate it semantically. Semantically, it's a statement of gratitude, never affection, so it can never mean "I love you." There is no context which can change the phrase's intended meaning.
I've been reading some actual Japanese literature and reading some of the stuff by the translators like Jay Rubin, I can't help but think that the people on both sides of this debate are absolutely retarded. Lefty "localizers" that change the context of the translation are obviously retarded. But the people calling for direct translations with no changes are even more retarded because they've convinced themselves that their retardation is a virtue.
>>737006625At this point you're just agreeing with the people calling you out for being retarded. You don't care about the translation, you care about that you're feeble brain wouldn't have understood the scene unless what was said was the most literal thing possible. This entire discussion is about you being a typical moron who needs everything told straight to his face. It doesn't matter how desperately you're trying to hide it. The bottom line is still the same.
>>737006625>it's okay to arrogantly dictate the meaning instead of letting the audience interpret it and it's okay to insert whatever stupid fanfiction I like, because you could read it in Japanese No dude, your narcissism makes you terrible at your job, and no amount of deflection will change that.
>>737006640Is yours?
>>737006762No one's calling for direct translations, just accurate ones.
>>737006642>>737006726>>737006779>noooo you can't express your gratitude for someone being in your life by letting them know you love them>you can't just tell them how much they mean to you and how much they've changed your life with such simple words you have to just express your gratitude with a bald-faced thank youYou're not human, you're just pretending to be
I love you, Zidane
>>737006832You just conflated how she feels about him with what she actually said to him.
>>736974689lol I hate you fucking faggots so much, it was very fucking clear 10 hours before that scene that they did in fact, love each other.
>>737006726Semantics are context-dependent. Hell, depending on context, "thank you" isn't even an expression of gratitude. If I slip and fall and then someone says "oh yeah, the floor is wet" and I reply "thank you, asshole" - am I really grateful to him?>There is no context which can change the phrase's intended meaning.This is begging the question but more than that, you're ascribing inherent "intended" meaning to phrases, as if intent were encoded within the phrase itself. You don't know shit about language.>>737006779I'm not arguing out of personal preference. I am, in fact, arguing that it is people like you who need things spelled out for them, not me. But I agree that we agree: "I love you" accurately conveys the intended meaning in that scene. You just think it's too on the nose - which is a completely different argument altogether.>>737006823Then we get into the question of how ambiguous the scene is in Japanese vs. how ambiguous "thank you" would be in English. If the English is more ambiguous, and leaves more room for doubt than the equivalent scene in Japanese, then yes, the translator is required to spell it out when translating the scene to English.
>>737006909>I've really...REALLY loved you!This is how localizers actually think this shit should be translated.
>>737006948You just tried to separate them
>>737007025Yes, I have a functioning brain.
>>737006909Steiner hates it. He hates it, but like it or not he's going to be an uncle in a year or so and he simply needs to deal with it
>>737006896>"thank you" can't express love, or that someone has changed your life, you have to be melodramatic and reduce a complex relationship to amore and nothing elseAnybody who can't understand the power of the words "thank you" lives a completely selfish, transactional life, and has never had a meaningful relationship with another human being.
>>736985620It's the other way around. They're so used to using it in stock phrases that it has lost all meaning
>>737007221>"i love you" can't express gratitude to someone who has saved and changed your lifeGoes both ways faggot>lives a completely selfish, transactional life, and has never had a meaningful relationship with another human being.The IRONYYou are NOT HUMAN
>>737006987>yet more narcissistic localizer drivel
>>737007379You lost, Localizer. Give it up.
>>737007379>goes both waysnta but if youre conceding that thank you can express that too then what reason is there to choose "i love you" over it when that option leaves no subtlety?
>>737006987>then yes, the translator is required to spell it out when translating the scene to English.Using their fanfiction interpretation instead of trusting the audience to figure it out for themselves, and ensuring that the translation enshrines their own personal biases, experiences, thoughts and observations.Thus perverting a work of art into a monument to their narcissism.
>>737007526>>737007532I simply thank god I am not this deranged about claiming victory for the supposed purity of direct troonslationsHave whatever victory you'll call this as far as I'm concerned, but just know you haven't changed my mind one whit, I enjoyed the media as I saw it and "i love you" is still fine. No more (You)'s, you're simply broken and I won't feed you anymore>>737007604>what reason is there to choose "i love you" over it when that option leaves no subtlety?Besides the fact that it still has its own subtleties it brings to the table, there's also the simple practical reality that they had to choose a line that syncs more closely to Yuna's lips because they weren't able to change that animation
>>737007810You'll give us unlimited (You)s because you can't help but get btfod by us every time.
>>737007991That's twice now he's scurried away in defeat, and that's only the times I know about.It's amusing, too, that all the samefagging stopped as soon as he left.
>>737008437It's probably Neil or one of his friends.
>>736976782bodied that freak
>>737007810>they had to choose a line that syncs more closely to Yuna's lips because they weren't able to change that animationthats fair and i will not fault localizers for compromises like that but we were clearly discussing the pragmatic reasons for changing the line. With "i love you" the romantic aspect steps into the foreground and the meaning of gratitude becomes secondary even though its supposed to be the other way around.
Localizers are so easy to destroy in argument. They only ever say the same three things>it sounds better>that's something they would've said>you haven't played the game
>game is hailed as a masterpiece of localization for its time>look inside>the whole script is just completely made the fuck up
You forgot the:>"Well, you see. It's impossible to do 1-1 translation... *long winded yap that doesn't address the rewrites* ".
>>737010619>But there were text limitati-ACK
Today's trannylators would have done something more retarded and it would have been throughout the entire game. Yuna saying she loves Tidus in that moment wasn't a big deal.We already know you can't directly translate Jap to Eng and we can't start shitting on older translators just because we have trannylators today.
>>737011059>It was only one line!>Translations today are worse!>Japanese can't be translated directly!For the love god, pick one argument and stick with it, Localizer.
>>737006642No, it's a "this is the last time i'll see you, so i want you to know how special you were to me" type of "I love you."Have you never seen Star Wars?Leia telling Han "I love you" and him saying "I know" just before he is frozen in carbonite and essentially killed (as far as we know) is like a classic modern movie moment and it is one of the classic quotes from a series where everything is quoted.
>>737011169That's probably the scene the localizer was thinking of when he chose to overwrite the line with fanfiction.
>>737011059I see what you're saying, but I don't like them taking liberties like this in the first place. Their job is not to be creative.
It is fine. But keep the original dubs available.
>Retards arguing in circles and bad faith thread #500Feels good that I skip all of this bullshit by just playing in Japanese.
>>737010285Is that from Star Fox?
>>737011636Woah, you're so cool, anon, and definitely not a localizer!
>"no you don't understand we NEED localization because otherwise Americans would be confused and hate all these games!">this is accepted as truth for decades>random Americans suddenly start interacting with Japs on xitter without localizers interfering>they get along amazingly and love each other's cultureWe don't need localization, we never fucking did.
>>737011942Much of the censorship we see in Japanese media comes from localizers removing it on a whim.
>>737011904You will never be a woman
>>737012568>on a whimIt's probably not a malicious translator/localizer doing things on a whim at all, but them being beholden to certain guidelines set forth by whoever is paying them to do the work. The last thing a translation company wants is trouble when you're outsourcing to them since doing it wrong will likely make the dev/publisher/whoever think twice about using you for future jobs.
>>737011636>Feels good that I skip all of this bullshit by just playing in Japanese.And how do you intend to do that when the Japanese is also altered?
>>737013075It is done on a whim by vandals who brag about it, and when it is done to adhere to guidelines it is because the vandals are the ones who have created them.You keep trying this lie as if advancing it under different personas will make us believe it.It does not, because it is completely at odds with reality.
>>736973619i don't play weeb games so i've never cared
Why do people still argue over this one decision even though Nojima himself approved the change?>I wrote an article about this very subject for the lit. magazine “Subaru,” but to summarize, “arigatou” and “I love you” can play very similar roles in their respective languages. I like to imagine the patriarch of a family on his death bed, looking up at his children and grandchildren gathered around. In Japanese, he says “arigatou,” literally “there was much difficulty,” acknowledging the trouble and effort his relatives have gone through on his behalf, and expressing his gratitude toward them. In English, he says “I love you,” meaning pretty much the same thing. They’re both great scene closers, if you will. Beyond that, FFX is arguably a love story, complete with a kiss, and the Western audience expects an outward declaration of love, as un-Japanese as that may be. Finally, the lip movements for the two phrases happen to match pretty perfectly, which sealed the deal.>Knowing this would be somewhat controversial, being the first time anyone in a Final Fantasy had said “I love you,” I checked with Nojima, who was attending the recording in LA when I was rewriting those final scenes, and he signed off on it, happy to give people something talk about.
>>736973619The translated one fits Tidus's reaction more. She thanked him multiple times in the game before that point, but she never told him she loved him.
>>736987373You mean like this
>>737013950>Why do people still argue over this one decision even though Nojima himself approved the change?Him greenlighting it doesn't necessarily mean much in terms of its appropriateness.We don't know how much he cared about the integrity of the English version, outside of it being of good quality overall. Nothing in this quote says that he actually thought the change was good. Rather, the best he says is that he's glad it gives people something to talk about, which is faint praise and sounds like typical Jap politeness.How much does he even know about the English audience anyway? He could just be trusting the translator to know what he's doing.Him "signing off" doesn't mean it's magically in line with his intent, and you can't use it to summarily dismiss the argument.>the Western audience expects an outward declaration of loveNot a good excuse for forcing it into a Japanese game when it wasn't there in the first place.>Finally, the lip movements for the two phrases happen to match pretty perfectlyThis is a fair enough point I suppose.But really, he's just another localizer treating his audience like idiots while trying to leave his own mark on another's work. He's viewing his job as a means to be "creative". He looks at it and he thinks of things he wants to change and add to project himself into it. He was allowed to do it, but that doesn't make it the right approach. It's narcissism.
AI will unironically save localizations, literally just prompt it to "translate this literally with no BS"
>>737013075Nope, localizers make all final decisions on scripts. Publishers have very few if any demands on how the script should be.
>>737014012No, it really doesn't.
Remember that this is the same localization team that led to James Arnold Taylor giving Tidus' future narration a much older voice for whatever stupid as fuck reason.
>>737015015What? He doesn't sound older. He just sounds more serious and when you catch up to that point in the story, you completely understand why. You're a retard looking to make up random complaints.
>>737014909You don't even need to do that. It'll translate honestly just from the start.
>>737015242And then he immediately drops this "character development" voice when it catches up? Okay.I swear I read something from him that says "Tidus must have survived because he was narrating the story" but I've never been able to find it again so maybe I imagined it or something. Either way, it's clear he was misdirected.
>>737007379How do you expect someone about to die to react to "I love you"? Only regret will be left. "Thank you" puts the other person before your own feelings and says it's okay to leave, you're going to be fine on your own.
>>737016407I do think "I love you" can be a gift in that context, in letting someone know that they mean that much to you and that they have touched your heart. People like to be loved.But I also think "thank you" is much better at expressing the totality of their relationship and the impact it's had on her, and that's giving him a gift as well. I don't like editorializing from condescending translators. I don't care if a scene "doesn't translate properly into English values". It assumes English speaking people all have a universal perspective anyway, which is silly. I know it's from another culture. I want to see the output of that culture and interpret the meaning for myself, and if I'm wrong, who the fuck cares?
>>736984781nah. that overt line gives insane relief. theere's no need for subtetlty here everyone gets it anyway you're just robbing from that relief you'd get by being overt.
We'd never see the word love in translations if they were 1:1, since no one ever shows their affection with 大好き.
>>736976219>>736975271>>736978906>>736979780>>736980047Love is the cheapest word in the English language. People 'love' hamburgers and listening to music. It's anticlimactic and cheapens the impact of the scene.>>736985135Not even thank you. Just 'thanks'. Arigatou is more informal.
>>737018938The only difference is "I love you" is a well-documented way to translate 大好き, whereas ありがとう is not.
>>737019286And it's well documented that the way the Japanese show affection is substantially subdued compared to the rest of the world.
>>737019340Not really, no.
>>736973619Did Tidus coming back in X-2 ruin this scene?
>>737019562that wasn't Tidus. that was Parallel Dimension Tidus, who is the real version of Tidus in the real world.it's just meant to be a hint that another world exists in ff10 where the characters take on different roles depending on what dimension they exist in. all final fantasy games do that.
yuna is such an unbending gigastacy she can break the established lore reach past the 4th wall and grab the writers by the tie for a feel good ending
THEY FIXED THE POSTING PROBLEMWE'RE FREE
>>736973619I don't care much either way. I see the reason why they changed a subtle "Thank you" into something more punchy and outwardly emotional for western teenagers who are acclimated to that sort of thing over subtext. As an old man I appreciate the thank you more but it's fucking FFX, it's literally for teenagers. I think I was 13 or 14 when I first played this game and I preferred the love confession back then. As the proverb goes, love is wasted on the young.
>>737019871It's just flat-out wrong as a translation. It's not a matter of personal preference.
>>736973619The thumbnail looks like there's a hairy frowning dude in a sombrero standing off behind Yuna.
>Job has some free Udemy Jap courseshmmmm, the penis explosion chamber beckons
>>736973619Tidus looks like a scared mexican in the thumbnail;
>>737020173You'll never learn, don't bother.
>>736973619Better than literal translations
>>737020608It's not even a translation. It's a literal rewrite.
>>737018938my Japanese wife unironically says this a lot to me
Localization is a disease
>>737020932yeah if you can't read emotion you dumb chud.
>>737021087What wife, Toromi? LMFAOOOOOOOO
>>737025126Or a dictionary.
>>737019026>Not even thank you. Just 'thanks'.Fuck that's actually even better. It's like the informality of it in that situation is an unspoken acknowledgement between them.
>>737019340And that makes for a better ending that fits the characters more.
>>737019871Teenagers aren't stupid, even if they try their best to act like it
>>737025997While ありがとう can be translated both ways, "thank you" is the more common/natural rendering for women. The distinction between ありがとう and ありがとうございます is not the same as thanks and thank you in English.
>>737025126>"if you can't read emotion">coming from someone who doesn't understand the impact of "thank you" here
>>737026171Still more accurate than "I love you".
>>737026290100% agree.
>>736973619It was dumb in the German version because all the German subtitles were based on the Japanese script, and throughout the entire game, barely anything matched the English voice acting. In general, I dislike localization like that because it is as if you took an American Hollywood movie and changed it for different countries. That does happen too, and it is often made fun of, yet when it happens with something like Final Fantasy X, Japanese media being adapted for the U.S. market, some people even approve of it. It gives the impression that Americans are full of themselves. It is kind of like how they often changed the entire soundtrack of anime such as Sailor Moon. But in the end, it all comes down to lacking foreskin.
>>7369736192 day old stanky ass thread.
>>737026612This has nothing to do with America. Nobody likes localization.
>>737026612>It is kind of like how they often changed the entire soundtrack of anime such as Sailor MoonThat's an understating of what they did. DiC Sailor Moon was so thoroughly different from the Japanese that it's basically a new adaptation in everything but the animation and it doesn't act as a substitute for the original at all. I'm glad they ended up making it that way because it's oddly entertaining in a totally different way to the Japanese, and lead to the Mexican dub being uniquely excellent in a way that otherwise wouldn't have happened were it not for that influence.
>>737026664
>>737027310NTA but it was pretty cool how they made new music for it, if nothing else.I don't think localization should be transformative in the first place, but I can grudgingly admit that the transformations we end up with can be kind of cool sometimes.
>>736975271>actually, the original version is wrong
>>737027523The localizer's creed.
