>>738058971
No. It was widely adored at release and then complaints came about the leveling system later.

I like both.

FF8 made me fall in love with level scaling, i really love how enemies get stronger with different abilities, keeps you on your toes throughout. I should replay it, it's been too long

>>738059026
it was widely considered OK

>>738059090
is there any modern game that has done level scaling right? now it's just higher health pool and damage, nothing else.

>>738059090
It's cool and all, but it's too easily abused. The game unironically becomes easier if you leave two party members dead at all times.

>>738058971
Is that the latest defense by the FF8 fags? No. It didn't "filter" anyone, unless by "filtered" you mean it turned off everyone who had good taste in video game. No, you are not going to suddenly convince people it is good because you think they will take your word for it, since they clearly aren't going to bother to actually play it for themselves. FF8 is known as a weak FF entry for reason, because it was. No amount of you liking that will ever change it. You should be happy that since FF13 and 15 it is no longer seen universally as the worst FF entry. That should be your fucking motto if you you want people to maybe appreciate it as more than a waste of code, art assets, and time; "Hey, at least it is better than 13 and 15."

>>738059110
ok zoomy

>>738059026
Even worse, people who played 8 first then routinely said ff7 looked too "dated" to play. It was already seen as ancient by 1999 because games released more often and with bigger technology leaps

>>738059152
uh oh loonytroon melty

I don't remember much about FF8 since I played it as a kid but I do remember keeping Squall at critical health and just spamming his renzokuken the entire game. Then against the superbosses like Omega I just spammed the short inputs on Zell's limit break for big damage.

>>738059135
not that i can think of unfortunately

>>738059026
I wasn't online at the time so I only have the opinions of me and my friends as 10 year olds in 1999, but most people I knew liked 8, but not as much as 7/9, and as time went on it felt like 8 was the PS1 game that people talked about/remembered the least.

>>738059090
This, coming back to Balamb and finding enemies have better spells to draw and can put me in danger made old areas exciting and novel again. It made exploration better, but the games that do this need to explain it in-lore or it might feel artificial

As someone who's played a ton of JRPGs, FF7 is definitely on baby tier. The game is just too easy, I don't remember a single story boss where I struggled and I never got a game over on my first playthrough. And I didn't even abuse Enemy Skill materia, it gets even easier on the second playthrough

>>738059731
That's only due to the internet blowing up ff7's popularity due to it having had the biggest and most bombastic US campaign and having themes US players like the most. You literally play as a freedom fighter in a dark dystopian world. Your starting characters are cyborg nigga, blond badass with superpowers and Ms. Tits. The whole thing looks like a marvel comic on steroids with American themes throughout. These "fans" keep trying to claim it's a "better game" when they simply resonate with it more than with a game about high schoolers in a giant floating gourd.
It's all it is.

>>738059975
>That's only due to the internet blowing up ff7's popularity
As I said, I wasn't online as a kid. I don't think we got internet access at home until like 2005 or so.
>the biggest and most bombastic US campaign and having themes US players like the most.
I'm not American. I don't remember ever seeing an ad for any FF game outside of gaming magazines.

>>738059150
>The game unironically becomes easier if you leave two party members dead at all times
that's not true at all, in fact, it's usually the base method to make challenge run

File: 1768740375490177.png (1.02 MB, 1050x636)

1.02 MB PNG

>>738059090
it's the best because level scaling means that you can build your "own" difficulty and thus increase replayability a lot, and this, without having to sacrifice too much compared to other FF that require to not use almost half of what the game can offer to have a somewhat "difficulty".

I suggest for those that finished FF8 already too many times to make a challenge run:
>at least 1 char at LV100 (your main) as quick as possible (before Ifrit)
>all the GFs equipped on 1 char only (your main)
>all the other char left with nothing (no GF, magic, items)
>all the other char should reach LV100 as soon possible (after ifrit usually) while still having nothing
You can use everything else like a normal run.

This challenge run is ABSOLUTELY hard, so much that killing a T-REX in the training room with that set (before even unlocking ifrit) become a one week goal...but the good point is that this run make you learn the deep and complex part of the battle system of FF8, you will learn the proper timing of the AI, your stats and how to maximize everything, junction, GF, swapping tactic mid fight etc... the game just become so complex and deep, something you would never ever think was possible with a normal run.

In reality, FF8 battle system is no that much different than FFX/Grandia 2, with one subtility, is that everything is in "real time", which give you even more options and strategy, since you are not locked from your own speed.

>>738058971
FF8 has exactly two difficult fights, Ultimecia and Omega. I don't think I saw the game over screen until Ultimecia.

>>738062149
not in your first playthrough without guide

FF8 is one of the very few games that requires a high IQ to understand

File: 1034020737710.jpg (32 KB, 410x396)

32 KB JPG

>>738059090
>>738062010
>>738059135
Level scaling is an inherently bad mechanic because it negates the primary reward system in an RPG, getting stronger than the enemies. Any time you see it anywhere it's a sure sign the game was made by people who don't know shit about game design.

File: Squall_FFVIII_Art.png (278 KB, 582x580)

278 KB PNG

>>738059026
/thread

Luv me VII, luv me VIII

File: 1763050974957454.png (936 KB, 1080x754)

936 KB PNG

>>738063103
>Level scaling is an inherently bad mechanic because it negates the primary reward system in an RPG
this is so wrong on so many levels....

first:
>the primary reward system in an RPG
according to who? in a lot of RPG you have different primary reward, some could be collection, other could be a set of feature, and some are just being able to move the story forward.
A J-RPG like pokemon trading card game doesn't have a primary reward of getting stronger, instead, it's more about collecting more cards (weak or strong) and make a deck from it.

>it negates the primary reward system in an RPG, getting stronger than the enemies
You still do get stronger than the enemies (unless you specifically do something wrong), the only thing a scaling system does is to limit how strong the gap between you and the enemies can be, which mean you cannot just walk on the rest of the game by over-grinding, that's it.

>Any time you see it anywhere it's a sure sign the game was made by people who don't know shit about game design.
And yet, FF8 is the best FF, hell, even in the TOP 5 best J-RPG ever in term of gameplay and battle system, in competition with stuff like SaGa games, Grandia 2 and more....

I wish more J-RPG games would have a scaling sytem

>>738063879
>And yet, FF8 is the best FF, hell, even in the TOP 5 best J-RPG ever in term of gameplay and battle system
Says you. The vast majority of people disagree with you, though.

File: 1776690291945332.jpg (30 KB, 700x369)

30 KB JPG

>>738064010
>The vast majority of people disagree with you
the vast majority of people think COD are the best games ever and MARVEL are the best movies ever.... I suppose you do agree with them?

File: FF8.jpg (147 KB, 1600x1060)

147 KB JPG

Everyone itt

>FF fag makes up yet another non-existent controversy to spark some semblance of discussion
grim

File: 1760688827606141.jpg (25 KB, 500x500)

25 KB JPG

>>738064125
based

I love all Final Fantasies from I to XII

File: Where_do_you_think_we_are.png (936 KB, 644x644)

936 KB PNG

>>738064179
Remove the FF part and that pretty much describes 90% of the entire internet.

Both games were piss easy, specially ff7 where the only challenge came from the weapons
t.played both recently back to back

>>738064381
Just because everyone sucks dicks doesn't mean you have to

>>738064437
FF games aren't supposed to be difficult, so it makes sense, but FF8 is indeed way more difficult than FF7, no way that you play FF8 for the first time ever with no guide at the age of 10 and do not make any big mistake during the playthrough

>>738058971
>game for children is harder than the previous game for children
Only a zoomer/alphoomer could say this. I don't think anyone struggled with either of these, even when we were retarded children.

>>738064558
>Only a zoomer/alphoomer could say this
>I don't think anyone struggled with either of these
ironic

>>738058971
>games that punished you for leveling
This shit is pure cancer and gives you no satisfaction when playing the game. Oblivion was REALLY bad at this.

8 was my first FF and I still blame it for me becoming an accountant

>>738063879
The primary reward in a "Role Playing Game (RPG)" is to watch your character's role increase and expand. Level scaling creates different context vs your character's improvement arc because it can very easily muddy the waters on translating to the player that you actually have made any improvement.
You miss out on the feeling of ever having any power over certain enemies, which might hint to you that you're in either the right or wrong area, etc. or it can make you feel more reward for having overtaken the game's core systems.
If a game's systems are balanced at all, you don't need level scaling at all in the first place.
You can do it in intelligent ways, but it's an even bigger power move to not include it at all. Shows you had a grasp on exactly how strong you want players when and where. Level scaling is more of a
>Fuck it, throw a Hail Mary and hope the player has fun here
With that said, 8 wasn't bad, but it was mediocre. Y'know, moderate, milquetoast, otherwise nothing of note to stand out in the pack, etc.

File: 1758018205927383.jpg (944 KB, 1852x2048)

944 KB JPG

>>738065581
>Level scaling creates different context vs your character's improvement arc because it can very easily muddy the waters on translating to the player that you actually have made any improvement.
That's where you are wrong. The only thing that scaling prevent is to make a big gap, that's it. You still feel super strong, you still feel that you have massively improved, it's EXACTLY like if you were facing a static progression and where evolving normally without grinding.

Everything you said could be felt the same way by just playing a J-RPG and progressing normally without any grinding at all, everytime you level up in a stage, it will be barely enough compared to how the mobs difficulty would evolve too, giving the EXACT same result than someone that would have grinded hard in a scaled system, aka, just barely above the enemy level.

The biggest factor though, is that scaling allow many sub part of the system to evolve without breaking the game. When you do grind hard in a static progression system, you don't just level up, you also unlock new features, which mean that, if you want to enjoy those new features, YOU NEED to be overleveled... On a scaling system, you can benefit of the latest unlocked feature without having to totally make the game piss easy, you could just start the game and unlock the last ability of a skill tree right away and then enjoy that ability till the end of the game without feeling that the game is done from the start.

The only people that hate the scaling system are people that love to grind right from the start and then play the game in automode until the end, negating all the difficulty, strategy, battle mechanic and overall pleasure to go deep in the game mechanics. Others, that do love the scaling, love the fact that this system offer a total FREEDOM on how you can play the game, you are free to make the game as easy (counter scaling) or as super hard (run challenge), static progression level doesn't offer any of this.

It's in reverse, the more you invest yourself in the leveling system the more difficult it becomes, you can unga bunga and gf spam your way to the very last boss

>>738064125
The junction system is ok, but having the enemies level up with you wasn't needed.

>>738066479
not really, people conflict the meta counter scaling as the "default" way of playing, when in reality, counter scaling and hyper grinding are both at the extreme opposite of the default playstyle, the amount of work to do a counter scaling is the exact same than hyper grinding, both are super hard, one require to do a shit tons of specific skip/gameplay to stay at low level and one require to always be on the edge in every fight, in both case, it's not sustainable for a beginner, and clearly reserved to people ready to go deeper in the game after a first playthrough.

so yes, you can counter scaling by tricking the system to think that you are weak (low level) while still having strong capabilities (high junction), but doing this require to really break the game and abuse of a meta that only someone that already finished the game or specifically read some guide can do, so no, "the more you invest yourself in the leveling system the more difficult it becomes" is not true, it's the same for both method.

the only way to have the game "easy" is to play normally without grinding, that's it, which is the "default" way of playing the game.

>>738066479
>gf spam
Nigger what? Unless you're trying to tank a strong attack there's zero reason to use gf in battle.

What is this autist spitting walls of text talking about? FF8 is piss easy no matter what you do. Don't know how to abuse the game's mechanics and just play it like a normal JRPG? It's not hard, just tedious because you need to stop to draw everything extremely slowly. You are also not rewarded for actually leveling up since the level scaling is whack and in the favor of the enemies. If you know how to break the game at the start by playing card games for a hour or two and turning off random encounters and gaining exp? It's the easiest JRPG you will EVER play. Nothing can even come close to harming you until the very, very end of the game, and once you reach that, you have access to so much broken shit that the game still can't actually provide a challenge for you. There's no winning with the game either, because even if you can stomach the gameplay sucking either way, you then have bad characters, a bad story, a bad world, just a bad game in almost every aspect except for the music and graphics for the time.

>>738063103
This, there's no such thing as good level scaling cause it's an objectively bad game design. Any pros are negated by the much bigger cons even in a best case scenario. FF8 would have been a better game if it didn't have level scaling. It ruins pacing, it ruins the feeling of progression, in FF8's case it's literally counter intuitive since enemies scale harder than you do so you're basically making yourself weaker by leveling. The most fun parts of any JRPG are trying to tackle fights harder than you can be expected to fight and being rewarded for overcoming it. Everything is a joke in FF8 because there's no way to challenge stronger foes because everything is dumbed down to your level.

>>738063879
FF8 contrarians are so fucking delusional holy shit.

>>738065581
Basically this yeah. Good games don't need level scaling, It's a crutch for lazy devs that don't know how to balance their game properly.

>>738058971
If you get junctioning, it's easy. If you don't then the game is suffering.

The exploits are there but I don't count them. Any normal playthrough won't have Squall at level 1 or whatever. That's no way to RP.

File: 1771580648020180.png (352 KB, 558x558)

352 KB PNG

>>738067019
anon say this
>FF8 is piss easy no matter what you do
and then say this shit
>just tedious because you need to stop to draw everything extremely slowly
KEK at you, you don't even know how to play the game

>>738058971
yes, FF8 was too hard for everyone when it released.

>>738058971
I really need to play this game with a proper speedhack. The slowness is what drove me off in the end.
Also it's really too easy to break the difficulty curve wide open if you learn the card game properly. They give way too many good cards too early.

>>738067171
You have zero reading comprehension if that's what you got from my post. The game is not hard because it's designed around weak enemies standing around and not doing anything so you can keep drawing magic from them to equip to all your stats because they came up with this unhinged equipment system(that also discouraged you from doing anything other than spam normal attacks and limit breaks). There's no reason not to play the card game at the start and equip tornado for triple digit stats right out the gate.

>>738067048
>The most fun parts of any JRPG are trying to tackle fights harder than you can be expected to fight and being rewarded for overcoming it
my ass, because most JRPG (at least those past the snes era) doesn't allow you that, or when they do, it's in a very limited way.
what you want to say is that you just like autistically grind for hours to complete destroy any difficulty that the game offer to you for the rest of the playthrough.
>It's a crutch for lazy devs that don't know how to balance their game properly
it's way more difficult to balance a game with scaling than with static level btw, there is reason why most games doesn't do it...

8 and 9 fags in a fight to see who can be the most pretentious. Who wins?

>>738067296
Play your 2nd JRPG then dumbass.
>it's way more difficult to balance a game with scaling than with static level btw, there is reason why most games doesn't do it...
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA

>>738058971
FF8 was piss easy, you just don't level up

>>738067227
obviously the game isn't hard, it just sucked dick at delivering the systems and concepts to the player

>>738067283
>so you can keep drawing magic
and then you talk about reading comprehension? you do realize that no good FF8 player do draw magic, right? you do know that drawing magic is retarded, right?

>>738067121
You get quetz and diablos at the start of the game, there's nothing stopping you from using them as the developers intended.

>>738067352
Yeah there's a difference between being hard and being unintuitive.

>>738064593
>punish you for leveling
the "punishment" being not having the most optimal build

>>738067359
Yeah because you can just play the card game and become invincible for 2/3rds of the game, no shit. They intended for you to play it that way, though.

>>738058971
What is this fanfiction?
As someone who was blown away by FFVII, when VIII came out me and my friends were hyped AF. All the characters looked older and more mature, the gunblade was cool as fuck. The intro was awesome and actualyl showed blood.

>>738067342
>Play your 2nd JRPG then dumbass
which one? Vagrant Story? Grandia? Saga Frontier 2? Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter? Jade Cocoon? which one of the already played JRPG should I play? tell me.
>HAHAHAHH
I accept your concession, scaling is way more difficult to balance because it require to take into account the entirety of the whole system for each levels group compared to static where it become difficult only near the end because the early start of the game only involve a very tiny amount of ability and levels...

>>738058971

Your stats are determined by farming magic from enemies. Its forever give and take unless you just farmed magic to boost stats and then just focused solely on a Phys. Attack style of play. (which the majority of people usually did)

Magic's potency however being next to ass-useless in combat never felt like it was ever worth using if you just hit the goddamn thing until it died every time.

At least FFVII had so many multitudes of combinations, magics, attacks, skills and summons from the Materia system you could construct entire play throughs around your own personal investments and plans. And it never punished you for experimenting.

>>738067519
>which one? Vagrant Story? Grandia? Saga Frontier 2? Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter? Jade Cocoon? which one of the already played JRPG should I play? tell me.
I like how you use examples that actively disprove your own point.
>I accept your concession, scaling is way more difficult to balance because it require to take into account the entirety of the whole system for each levels group compared to static where it become difficult only near the end because the early start of the game only involve a very tiny amount of ability and levels...
God this retard gets funnier by the post. Hey guess what dumbass. FF8 ISN'T balanced at all. That's why everyone finds it easy because they didn't even try to properly curate a difficulty curve so anyone can break it in half. Level scaling objectively means the game isn't balanced ergo there's nothing easier than balancing a game for level scaling because you do literally nothing.

>>738067418
not even, you didn't play the game.
nobody draw magic simply because it's faster and easier to craft them WITHOUT EVEN USING OR PLAY ANY CARDS, just levelup the GF ability and craft shit with the materials you get after each fights and voila~ infinite magic.

Drawing magic only serve for 2 things: 1 to replenish mid fight if you are using them too much and some are put in vitals part of your stats, or 2, if you are out of them (like cure etc..) and out of materials to prevent a somewhat softlock in term of progression.

People overestimate how much of a difference level scaling actually makes or how much your stats are penalized for casting a single spell.
On top of that, there is never a reason to draw a gorillion spells or look for ways to abuse refine on tents that early on but the internet is incapable of not looking for the easiest way to break a game.

>>738067680
I beat the game before you were born asswipe, it's hilarious you're talking about using magic mid battle like anyone would ever bother with that beyond broken shit like aura. This game is so broken on a fundamental level there no point in discussing anything, you just spam limits until credits roll and get mad at how much you wasted your time with such a boring mediocre game.

>>738067629
>I like how you use examples that actively disprove your own point.
more vague argument with nothing of value inside it, great
>FF8 ISN'T balanced at all
It is, what you don't understand if that the game offer FREEDOM to break the game, the game doesn't prevent you or restrict you in any way shape of form to break it, not because it's not balanced, but because the game WANT YOU to explore and do your own way, like I said in many threads, it's like doing a setup for a car (say GT2), you are free to make the car absolute dogshit by doing a very stupid setup OR, you can make a god tier like setup that makes your car way faster, FF8 progression and junction system is exactly like that, if you want to break it and spend hours trying to find the greatest meta, then be it, the game allow you to become ridiculous strong or weak.

>>738067352
idk I like that approach to gameplay. the game shows you the basics, step by step, but there's also major mechanics that it doesn't explicitly tell you unless you're paying attention or crunching numbers.
either way though, it's still a pretty easy game that allows for a lot of flexibility.

>>738067846
Except you "break" FF8 by just playing normally because you have to actively go out of your way to find challenge. There's also no reason to do so because there's no reward for it . You literally have no argument because it's OBJECTIVELY better for a JRPG to not have scaling because there's literally no benefit that couldn't be gotten more so from just having the game properly paced and balanced. Normal JRPGs without level scaling have freedon for how you want to explore the game's systems. That's why you can challenge fights over or underlevelled. The freedom for how you want to tackle situations should always be up to the player and level scaling removes that agency by forcefully bending the world to your level. The player should be able to explore the game and make decisions for how they want to progress through it but you can't with level scaling because the game is not defined and a game world being poorly defined makes it not feel good to explore because no matter where you go, what you find you will always find your own level. There is not a single argument in favor of level scaling that is not also achievable but better without it. It's a bad mechanic for bad devs.

>>738067841
>I beat the game before you were born asswipe
I played the game when it was released, so good luck with that kido (I was even playing the intro in loop with the PSX demo disc before release).
>it's hilarious you're talking about using magic mid battle like anyone would ever bother with that beyond broken shit like aura
You are retarded, I SAID NOBODY DRAW MAGIC you fucking moron, I said, Drawing magic was initially created (designed by the devs) to serve as a backup plan during mid fight or to prevent softlock, this isn't the way you are supposed to use them, but they exist for people that screwed up themselves doing stupid shit.
>This game is so broken on a fundamental level there
this is why we say that the average J-RPG gamer is fucking retarded (compared to the hardcore one, like SaGa gamers), you give the possibility to have a complex, deep and free to explore progression system and the only thing that those idiots understand is: I can broke the game if I read a stupid guide online, the game is broken!!!!!

So what, you prefer a game that totally restrict you? you can't do this, you can't do that, this item? no, you are too low level, this difficulty? no, it's too early, this feature? no buddy, need to play for 6 hours for that, and then you faggot endup with FFX or FFXIII, aka corridor baby gameplay games where you sleep during all fights until the end, GG.

>>738063103
>rpg means reward system is muh levels
Level scaling is awesome because it forces you to progress horizontally and just beat the game rather than grinding out your numbers, the complaints about it in oblivion make sense because the consequences of vertical progression are unintuitive and can actually completely fuck you over

>>738068193
This is the opinion of someone who has never played a JRPG in his life.

>>738068193
>it forces you to progress horizontally
the fuck does that even mean?

>>738058971
>>738067156
>>738066445
>>738065960
>>738065270
>>738064819
>>738061302
>>738060397
BUY A FUCKING AD

File: 1512487299522.webm (748 KB, 480x480)

748 KB WEBM

There was never anything wrong with 8 - People just didn't know 7fags were mentally ill until they got 2 perfect remakes and still bitched about them.

>>738068407
>he does it for free

I feel like people who defend level scaling are just contrarians and don't actually like it because their arguments for why it's good always just come across like profound mental gymnastics when the arguments against it just make too much sense. Leveling is good because you feel the sense of progression of yourself and also a progression of threats as you gradually encounter higher and higher level enemies. Level scaling is bad because it equalizes everything in a way that makes progressing feel bad. Nobody wants the basic bitch enemy to be scaled to the same strength tier as the final boss of the game, that's common sense.

>>738068064
>Except you "break" FF8 by just playing normally
It's almost like.....>>738066979

>There's also no reason to do so because there's no reward for it
F-I-N-A-L-L-Y, we are reaching the core problem of this discussion: the people that play J-RPG not for the gameplay but for a "good time".

The reward of this system is a gameplay/battle/progression mechanic that is deep and complex, you don't seems to take into account the pleasure to understand each parts of the mechanic that the game have to offer, the pleasure to explore, test, and succeed to make a good build, the pleasure to see the battle become more and more challenging as long as you progress your level, and I said "challenging", not that difficult, challenging because now you need to use everything the game have to offer to match what the enemies are using, and not just sit behind a huge amount of XP and damage, this is a benefit, this make the gameplay impactful and interesting, way more than all the other FF where after 30 min grinding the entire game fall flat, potion? phoenix? bad weapons? who cares, you are high level, you already won.

>Normal JRPGs without level scaling have freedon for how you want to explore the game's systems
Oh yeah? ok, tell me, what difficult boss you can fight on FF9 20min after the start of the game? Let's say I want to have a fight extremely difficult, what are my options? What can I do? tell me.

>>738058971
It literally rode the coattails of FF7 which is why is sold so well
After people were dissappointed in it they became disenfranchised of the series which lead to FF9 selling poorly in comparison

>>738068407
>talk about a game released in 1999
>buy an addddddddddd
kek

>>738068125
There is nothing complex or deep about FF8's gameplay systems, you're just grasping at straws because you're clearly attached to something nostalgic from your childhood. FF8 didn't impress me as young adult at its release because I'd been playing much better JRPGs for years before that point, and with time and hindsight, the game has only gotten worse for me over time. I don't see why anyone would ever feel the need to defend it's poorly thought out gameplay.

>>738068476
There is no game with level scaling that scales enemies like that.

>>738068451

>There was never anything wrong with 8

There are a massive amount of things wrong with 8. This is a fallacy.

>>738068476
>I feel like people who defend level scaling are just contrarians and don't actually like it
Almost ever 2/3 years I replay FF8 and GT2, and from time to time, Vagrant Story and Unlimited Saga too, so nice try.

I will say again, I love FF8 because the gameplay is totally FREE, it have a huge replayability that many other J-RPG doesn't have, I can boot the game (always the PSX version, fuck the demaster), speed up the intro (unskipable) and go straight to the training center and start doing shenanigans even before getting ifrit, no such freedom and joy about battles are reached on other FF games.

>>738068558
>Normal JRPGs without level scaling have freedon for how you want to explore the game's systems. That's why you can challenge fights over or underlevelled. The freedom for how you want to tackle situations should always be up to the player and level scaling removes that agency by forcefully bending the world to your level.
>not that difficult, challenging because now you need to use everything the game have to offer to match what the enemies are using, and not just sit behind a huge amount of XP and damage, this is a benefit, this make the gameplay impactful and interesting, way more than all the other FF where after 30 min grinding the entire game fall flat, potion? phoenix? bad weapons? who cares, you are high level, you already won.
So basically you're a brainless fucking moron who needs level scaling as a crutch because your dumb fuck self can't help yourself from grinding and trivializing the game. I say that leveling offers freedom on how you want to tackle situations not offered with level scaling and your counter argument is unironically "I chose to grind and not engage with the gameplay mechanics and this is the game's fault". Like all that shit you mentioned about learning systems applies just as much to every single other FF game but YOU chose not to and you're blaming the game because you need to be babied like a fucking retard. Well I'm done with you, anyone who unironically thinks "I need the game to decide things for me cause I'm too stupid to not grind" isn't worth listening to.

>>738058971
7,8, and 9 are all good. 8 just has issues, and 7/9’s are less apparent, most notably the story, but otherwise I think character systems and combat systems in 8 are actually really good. I do fucking hate fantasy RPG card games, ate Gwent, ate Caravan, ate TripleTriad/TetraMaster, simple as.

>>738069043
I genuinely have no idea how anyone could say 9 is less bad than 8.

>>738059759
You don't need to explain it. The leveling is strictly a gameplay mechanic. Monsters scaling is just a gameplay mechanic.

>>738068662
>There is nothing complex or deep about FF8
easy to say this after playing the game for so long and read so many guides, go take a random gamer and ask to compare how complex and deep the system is to other FF games...

of you think what? it's just about junction and scaling? what about cards? what about crafting? what about GF? do you level up the GF turbo or not?
the mechanic are so simple that in fucking 2026 people are still talking about "drawing magic"..... like cmon.

>FF8 didn't impress me as young adult at its release because I'd been playing much better JRPGs
and you think I didn't? Saga Frontier lol
now the fact it didn't impress you it's irrelevant, you don't like this system and you can't understand why this system is a gold mine for people that love to have the option to do what they want (hence SCALING), in the end, there is not many games that offer what FF8 offered, so this is enough to make this worthwhile.

the only somewhat difficult JRPGs are the ancient NES ones, since the SNES it's been a babby mode gendre

>>738069078
The primary crux, for me personally, is I started on VI, so I am accustomed to these games being very strong in the story department. Like I said, the most apparent flaw is in the story. Which at it’s worse is simply utilitarian, enabling the plot saying “we need to go here” without a lot of extrapolation as to why, it’s a things happen game, now, it doesn’t have the flaw that other RPGs with lacking story have, where it will just straight up not give the player any direction, you will know where to go and what to do, but sometimes will be hung up on the why of it all. Again, I like all 3 of these games a lot, I just can see the weak point in 8 that people gripe at, but I think it’s overblown, because the rest of the game is great, it just sometimes loses it’s wind because of that. It’s not any less beautiful or fun than the others, just had me a little more confused than the others. In my personal rankings, these 3 sit above the SNES releases and make my fluid top 3. A game can still be my favorite, even if it has a flaw, same thing for movies or music.

File: 1689960960798883.jpg (74 KB, 500x375)

74 KB JPG

>the whole thread is one autistic FF8 fag having a melty and repeating himself over and over because no one agrees with him
kek

>>738068876
>So basically you're a brainless fucking moron who needs level scaling as a crutch because your dumb fuck self can't help yourself from grinding and trivializing the game
I don't need anything, I explain how the static progression lock you on a very specific playstyle. You say it yourself, if you do grind, the game is fucked, ok, I won't do that, but then what? I play the game once normally, and now what do I do? What replayability do I have? What if I try to grind now? ahhhh well, fuck that, the game is broken now. So what if I don't grind or level at all, well then the game won't be difficult either because the game will never let you be softlocked, you will get stuff to help you no matter what, so again, you are locked on a very specific playstyle.

>I say that leveling offers freedom on how you want to tackle situations
It does not allow any freedom at all, either you are too low -> level up or too high -> automode and that's it, it also strip you away of so many features, since said feature require to level up.
You want to use a feature that allow you eat some monsters? can't, level too low, levelup to get this feature, but then you broke the game.

>I chose to grind and not engage with the gameplay mechanics and this is the game's fault
You create those stories in your head I'm afraid.
I never said that I do grind, I said, the static progression offer no freedom, simply because nothing scale, so either you play like the dev want you to play, or else, the game is broken, we are not even talking about grinding, it can be anything, including unlocking a feature too early or beating something you shouldn't, again, the game have nothing to allow you to enjoy the game like you want.
scaling allow you to go crazy and have the game still be enjoyable no matter what.

>>738063879
>>738068193
Level scaling removes the need to level up at all
Why increase your stats when the enemies will match you nearly 1 to 1
You might as well remove levels and increasing stats all together and just play the game with set stats with adjustments the player can change to their playstyle?

File: 1766893118715392.png (504 KB, 614x457)

504 KB PNG

>>738069253
lol
lmao even
>>738069380
actually I'm not alone, there is other anon that agree with me

I'm seeing a lot of parallels between this FF8fag and the DaS2fag

>>738069841
I'm glad you have someone else on your side. I'm not even being facetious when I say that, I actually want to like FF8, but I can never enjoy my playthroughs of it. I guess it takes a particular kind of person to appreciate how it is.

>zoomers think Final Fantasy EIGHT is hard
What, did they encounter the T-Rex and quit? Doesn't game tell you can blind the it and it becomes totally worthless?

>>738069821
no it doesn't, it's a misconception.
when you level up, it's not just your stats that increase, it's also the pool of items/ability that you can use, the amount of strategy that you can do in combats with said stats (faster speed, better synergy between feature etc...) and of course more complex link with other parts of the game (card, crafting etc...).

so leveling up does make sense, because the game get more complex and deep by doing so, it's simple, the amount of stuff you unlock when reaching LV100/GFs is obliviously higher than at low level, the mobs also level up and also use a bigger amount of attack, magics and strategy too, so you do level up to enjoy a better game, that's the best point behind the scaling system, and you can do that since you start your playthrough, instead of waiting end game content to really go crazy.

>>738070080
None of the PS1 FFs are hard, they’re solved games at this point, they’re talking about this like it’s SMT, which isn’t wicked hard either, you just need to actually prep before doing dungeons.

>>738070096
Instead of tying these things to level just tie it to main story progression or the area you are in

>>738070096
You keep repeating yourself about the game becoming "more deep" and "more complex" if you level up, but that's not true at all. This is the same game that has a spell that makes you invulnerable and another that makes it where you can spam broken ass limit breaks. The strategy is limited because the most simple approach to the combat is the strongest, so why would you bother with anything else? Normal attacks and limit break spam also gets you through most of the game before you can get those spells.

File: 1756780615908551.png (585 KB, 1280x720)

585 KB PNG

>>738069952
there is many people that love FF8 gameplay (way more than what people think). there is a reason why I compare it to GT2, because FF8 gameplay is like doing a setup for a car, if for you it sound totally absurd to spend 10 hours to switch every tiny numbers on a car to optimize it, then I can understand that you don't like FF8.

to make it simple, FF8 allow me to enjoy the gameplay right away with almost no restriction, like I said, in less than 5 minutes I can be in the training center and already mixing the game upside down to have a very specific run and play like I want, most J-RPG doesn't allow you this.
(yes I know, it's from GT7 but for some reason google refuse to give me a good pic from GT2 setup car)

>>738070140
>you just need to actually prep before doing dungeons.
In a pre-internet world that would have been the hard part.

>>738070534
Not really, find the dungeon, grind levels and accumulate beads before going too deep inside, then slowly work your way through, fusing what you needed. Maybe it’s just because of the crazy prepper style I play all RPGs in that it just agrees with me. Nocturne can suck the skin off my dick though, now THAT game is fucking hard.

File: 1326867092677.gif (492 KB, 400x370)

492 KB GIF

>>738068451
>2 perfect remakes

>>738070186
but why? I mean ok, you will enjoy it the first time you discover the game, fine, but what happen after that? will you replay it and wait the next 6 hours to have the same fun again? take a look at FFX..
>You keep repeating yourself about the game becoming "more deep" and "more complex" if you level up, but that's not true at all
it is, and that's the problem, most people didn't truly played with the battle system on FF8.
again, try to level up to 100 before getting ifrit, no go try to fight a t-rex, see what happen.... no limit to help you (weapons aren't fully upgraded), most super high end spell aren't also available yet (no GF unlocked for that), so you are on you own, you need to learn the AI pattern, learn the timing of your GF summoning to tank the 9999 damage from the T-rex that would have one shotted you etc.... like I said, the game is what you want it to be, if for you there is no joy to do a tons of challenging battle, then go for the most boring strat, it's fine, the game allow you to play it like you want.

>>738070426
This is one of the biggest boons to it’s gameplay in my opinion, and why I feel like it’s restrained by it’s story, because it’s systems are really solid and feels like something for players who do not want to dive fully into the insanity of the Zodiac system or you know, basically Factorio the game into playing itself, like Zodiac.

>>738070721
Who on earth other than some kind of weird challenge run autist is going to power level their characters to 100 before getting the first GF that's five minutes into the game? This is not some kind of glowing endorsement for the underrated complexity of FF8 like you seem to think it is, it's just some weirdo tell us we don't understand FF8 because we don't play it his unrealistic and cumbersome way.

>>738070732
Indeed, and I do agree that the story restrict it, I wish we could get a fully open FF8 where you can just go blow on battle non stop lol, I heard there is mod somewhere that allow this, but I think it's only for the remaster so...

>>738070889
>before getting the first GF
technically, you already have 2 before that (shiva and queza)
>it's just some weirdo tell us we don't understand FF8 because we don't play it his unrealistic and cumbersome way
no, it's me telling you that the game can become extremely complex if you wish for it to be complex, I say LV100 as an iconic way, but you can just spend 40min leveling up and reach LV50+ super easily (remember that the scaling also scale the enemies LV and thus the XP too), hell, you can just do that even faster with the spider mech if you want later.... it's just an example.

>>738058971
It's close enough. This probably comes from someone who played FF7 by grinding to max level as soon as possible and holding X through every battle after. FF8 has enough other ways to increase stats without just gaining XP that it doesn't become as easy with that strategy. It's still a very easy game, just doesn't have the exact same solution in that case.

File: 20260404_203640.jpg (211 KB, 1581x2048)

211 KB JPG

I like overleveling because it gives me a sense of power that I don't have IRL. Also, Shrekting enemies down effortlessly makes me feel like my time grinding was well spent. Almost like going to the gym and finally seeing gains. The reason why level scaling sucks is becaus it's like you're Vegeta, and then that fucking rat enemy at the beginning of the game is like Goku. Fuck that shit.

>>738074049
so just regard drawing as your actual grinding and leveling up

Level scaling and the junction system is bad game design

Nobody was alive in the 90s, uncs.

>>738058971
FF8 was like a million times easier than FF7.
>succ a ton of low level enemies
>junction to HP
>you are now invincible
>succ harder enemies with whatever specifics you want
>you now have max stats at the start of the game
Even going in blind when it released, I had zero issues whatsoever.