I've been working on a RPG set in a loose fantastical version of 19th century America, focusing on the expansionist period, folding in characters and creatures of colonial, indigenous, frontier, and immigrant folklore. What are your thoughts on how to handle the Native Americans and Slaves?Have there been any games that had attempted to portray these groups in any interesting way? I'd like to see both as friendly, neutral, and/or antagonistic groups. I feel like my personal qualms with portrayals of these groups is that it's always so one-note, noble savage types or exclusively victims.
You gonna pay me for picking my mind, bitch?
>>738974246I thought it would be interesting conversation
>>738973989weird how theyre all from fighting games too. whats up with that? also>design an injun>call it a mexicanwhat did capcom mean by this?
>>738974335You're asking me for direct input to create your game.
>>738974335>just consult me on game development for free bro
Definitely show the bright and darker sides in one experience.Have the starting area be or be close to a medium sized tribe that is peaceful and has their shit together. Show their culture, art, have kids running around. Make it honorable and respectful.However there should absolutely be a distant tribe that are violent killers. Aggressive war dogs who put conquering the land above all else.
>>738973989>Have there been any games that had attempted to portray these groups in any interesting way?No. Look into accounts from white settlers and traders on native medicine men. There was an article dating back to the 1800s I read that posited that not only does the extreme everpresent stress and paranoia shape native culture, but that their constant need to be aware on maximum paranoia mode may be responsible for the inexplicable powers of their medicine men. It is a very interesting read and I will try to find it.
>>738973989What are you looking for exactly? When I think Native Americans in vidya, the first thing that comes to mind is Turok, but if you want something less trodden you should look up the Tlingit. Mix of traditional gear and clothing with modern weapons, instantly recognizable.
>>738974762Found it.https: //www .theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1866/07/indian-medicine/627858/>Medicine of this degree is not unfa-vorably regarded by the m asses ; but instances of the highest grades are ex-trem ely rare, and the claim ants of such powers few in num ber. T h e Black Snake and the Kootenai, before re-ferred to, are, if still alive, the only instances with which I am acquaint-ed of adm itted and w ell-authenticat-ed powers so g reat and incredible. The common use of medicine is in af-fairs of war and the chase. H ere the medicine-man will be found, in m any cases, to exhibit a prescience truly a s-tounding. W ithout attem pting a theory to account for this, a suggestion may be ventured. The Indian passes a life that knows no repose. His vigilance is ever on the alert. No hour of day or night is to him an hour of assured safe-ty. In the course of years, his percep-tions and apprehensions become so acute, in the presence ot constant dan-ger, as to render him keenly and deli-cately sensitive to impressions that a civilized man could scarce recognize. The Indian, in other words, has a de-velopment almost like the instinct of the fox or beaver. Upon this delicate barometer, whose basis is physical fear, impressions (moral or physical, who shall say ?) act with surprising power. How this occurs, no Indian will attempt to explain. Certain conjurations will, they maintain, aid the medicine-man to receive impressions ; but how or where-fore, no one pretends to know.
Make them like Fremen.On the outside they appears to be like isolationist savages with ununited tribes, but they hold an ancient prophecy that could change/destroy the game world
>>738973989Fuck everything in this thread, denim is the best feeling in the world. It has the perfect texture. It's the best.
>>738973989You used to see native Americans in shit all the time in the 90s and 2000s but then they disappeared. Why
>>738973989This makes me remember seeing a comic called Tex but never read it to check the portrayal, come to think of it. I guess Aoe3 is this from this period? I don't know if you've any thinks on aoe3.
>>738974762>>738975070This is a good one, it's wild how just inherently 'toxic' native american stories are due to its relatively recent nature in American colonial history but then that just leads to it being buried under everything else.
>>738975412The easiest way to get around it is to literally set the game so the focus is on them and not the colonizers. I have a feeling a game where one of the themes is about a government who claims to be working in your best interests while constantly cheating you out in the name of bringing in foreigners from the other side of the world would resonate with most people in today's political climate.
>>738973989>characters meant to represent a race have characteristics of that raceNo way.
>>738975171My issue with that is mostly that the Fremen are ultimately one culture, split primarily between the Northern and Southern tribes.In my story, mythology holds a sort of real power like in American Gods and so one of my ideas is to portray Native American society as having a sort of general opposing power to Manifest Destiny but that itself is fragmented into several competing powers, primarily that of the Comanche and Lakota tribes that were equally expansionist in their own right.
>>738973989they look badass desu do native americans look like this irl i have never met one before.>>738974838cool outfits. i want one of those helemts.
>>738975229grifters started demanding money as consultants or they'd accuse the devs of being racist and get them canceled by the woke mob, so people just sidestep the issue entirely.
>>738974405>design an injun>>call it a mexicanwhat doesn't make sense about that
>>738975229You have to get them approved by an actual tribe now
>>738973989The person who made that image was such a seething little faggot kek
>>738973989I think whatever you do is going to piss someone off. Pick how historical, dark or serious you want to do it and stick with it. Since you're using indigeous people, you obviously are using their shit. But you're looking for examples.I'm going to go with The Cuotl from Rise of Nations, Rise of Legends. Central American mayan, aztec types, with space alien giant pyramid shit, and gods of destruction..
>>738975229Protestors. You have people bitching at Japanese creators making tribal shit based on JAPANESE shit if it resembles NA tribal shit too much.
>>738975887Note that that it's an entire continent of different tribes. There are some bikers that would look like that, except with less face paint. >>738974405Fighting games have max diversity. And there's mexican indians, you penejo.
>>738973989Is there something wrong with any of this aside from the denim?
>>738976483i dont think its saying theres anything inherently wrong with it apart from being lazy tired character design tropeslike the stupid shaved side of the head haircut that every """badass""" female in a video game had for a while
>>738973989>characters and creatures of colonial, indigenous, frontier, and immigrant folkloreit's actually criminal how underutilized this era is in games. A frontier game where you can encounter legitimately terrifying Wendigos and Skinwalkers seems sick
>>738974335>>738973989I wish I could help but I only know a lot about the Mesoamericans. I have friends who might know stuff about 19th century Indigenous topics but i'm not sure how comfortable they are posting on 4chan. If you seriously want input here, email me at saintseiyasource@gmail.com and reply here in thread to let me know you emailed me, and I'll try to get you in touch with people>>738974405>>738976096>>738976431>And there's mexican indians, you penejo>what doesn't make sense about thatExcept T. Hawk and Lily don't actually resemble Mesoamerican or Aridoamerican groups in Mexico, they're a mix of random US indigenous stuff. Lily's clubs for example are based on clubs used by Great Lakes groups
>>738977108>Except T. Hawk and Lily don't actually resemble Mesoamerican or Aridoamerican groups in Mexico, they're a mix of random US indigenous stuff. Lily's clubs for example are based on clubs used by Great Lakes groupsok well why didn't you say that to begin with
>>738975212Nope. Ample whool trousers are the best.
Natives are the best stealth archers
What's the appeal of redskins?They're literally useless retards who never managed to discover metallurgy.
>>738977669Think of them in the context of similar simple living groups like the Amish but during their prime they weren't afraid to shank a bitch to assert themselves
Greedfall bros...
>>738977358Horrendous. Absolutely not.
>>738975212wet denim feels awful
WHERE'S CHARLES LEEEEEEEEE
I feel like op needs to consult with the ladies over at SBI.
>>738973989Here’s a tip anonYou’re allowed to write stereotypes as long and you first introduce characters that don’t fall into those stereotypes.
OP, I like your idea a lot. I think I see what you're going for, so here's my take. There's no character creation. You pick a character preset from a racially diverse menu differentiated by starting area and class attributes. It's not feasible to make lots of different questlines for each, so I suggest you set the beginning of the game in an urban hub with different areas populated by different races. The fantasy elements (skinwalkers and stuff) are mostly found outside of this starting area, and class attributes are social/economic to avoid the 'magical Indian' stereotype, 'big strong black guy' stereotype, etc. Disguise it as a Netflix cast where it just so happens to be diverse so take that Chuds, not like you're implying these are different species or something. Basically they're all just citizens of the same town who happen to have different backgrounds.I'll split some ideas up over different posts.The Serviceman (white male): This is pretty much the 'warrior' default. He starts in the military camp and has good social advantages within the urban hub. He can go anywhere and talk to anyone. Outside the hub is the reverse situation-- He pretty much can't talk to anyone and will get shot at on sight except by other soldiers. His bank account collects a paycheck and starts with a moderate amount of money, which is a big factor in the early game, less so in the late game.Marksmanship: ***** /// Luck: ** /// Pathfinding: ***By the way, pathfinding would be the skill tree with horseback riding, tracking, danger awareness, detail on the minimap/HUD, chance of random encounters, etc.cont.
>>738980796The Peddler (white female): This is the oddball merchant class. She starts in the middle of the hub with a fuckload of money and progresses more using gold than XP. She sucks at everything except talking and relies on her high level gear and minions. The gameplan is setting up income streams and becoming sort of an overlord. She has social advantages pretty much everywhere she goes. There's no CHA stat. Some people want to do what you say and others do not, simple as.Marksmanship: ** /// Luck: *** /// Pathfinding: **
>>738980750The point isn't to write into or avoid stereotypes, it's to make something interesting. Going either way with stereotypes is boring.
>>738980796>>738980995If you're going that route, I think it'd be better to have a single rep from each tribe OP wants to focus on with written stories that eventually intersect. If you want to play a white guy, you should make him a Mormon, since as far as the Feds were concerned they weren't really different from the other foreign tribals with kooky customs that were getting in the way of Manifest Destiny.
>>738980995The Doc (Latin male): This is a more balanced take on the Peddler concept. His healing skills are a good income and minion stream but also pretty useful in combat. He's not quite as rich and sociable as the peddler but can hold his own in the wilderness better.Marksmanship: *** /// Luck: ** /// Pathfinding: ****
>native american vidya thread>Prey not mentionedFor SHAME, but reasonable because those racist ass jews at zenimax replaced it with their System Shock clone. Impossible to play now unless you find an unused key or a copy of the console version.
>>738981238I keep forgetting Prey used to be about something else instead of turning yourself into toilet paper.
>>738981170The Prospector (black male): This guy starts out dirt poor and everyone hates him. He's a freeman from the south, maybe even a runaway. His gameplan is achieving self-sufficiency and finding income streams outside the city (meager and rare) to survive. Fortunately he levels really well and starts out with good attributes.Marksmanship: *** /// Luck: **** /// Pathfinding: ***
idk why this thread is just making me think of arcanum
they should add an amerindian chick to the new doa
>>738973989>be native child>get told we are called Indians because early euros thought we were Indian>grow up and learn about IndiaYou niggers thought we looked like poos? Thats a bigger atrocity than anything else done to us.
>>738981351The Exile (Asian female): She's a rail worker with unique social attributes-- No one especially likes or dislikes her, but she can get a lot of super cheap stuff and unique items/characters from the Chinatown part of the hub. Starting area is a rail camp. Her gameplan is using her neutrality to pick up influence in both the main hub and the frontier areas. She's absurdly good at everything except combat and starts with very little money. I think the main selling point here is being able to do more in Chinatown and the Indian Reservation than most other classes.Marksmanship: * /// Luck: ***** // Pathfinding ****
>>738973989I would make an anti-white horror themed game since those don't actually exist.Make it about obtaining whiteness to survive. The more whiteness you have, the more safe you are and the more opportunities you have. I'd make the right-wing whites cartoonishly evil, have them sell child slaves that they whip, rape, and genocide. You can even lose your whiteness as a white person for not inflicting a maximum amount of cruelty towards minorities. When you wipe out other ethnic groups you have to eliminate the "white" groups to win for being less white
>>738973989Julia was supposed to be Indian?
>>738981547In our defense, most of us didn't actually know what Indians looked like until we started seeing them come en-masse.
>>738973989>Have there been any games that had attempted to portray these groups in any interesting way?Shadow Hearts, GUN, Brave, Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., Square's Tom Sawyer
>>738981624The Guide: A 'civilized Indian' (yes, they were called that) from the local tribe who has spent a lot of time in the city. Obviously he has lots of social clout on the Reservation but very little anywhere else. He's pretty good at everything but has NO BANK ACCOUNT which is a huge Achilles heel because his gold is capped at how much he can carry or hide away in a house, which of course he doesn't have at the beginning. Make this a simple and easy class to play like the Serviceman, because those are the two 'default wild west' experiences that go on the box art. Despite similar stat's they're sort of inverses of each other due to their perks/social advantages. The Guide is really comfortable out on the frontier but hard to play in the city.Marksmanship: ***** /// Luck: * // Pathfinding ****Anyway that's all I've got but I hope I've inspired you OP. My take on your game is more of a CRPG I guess.
>>738973989The real Prey has cool native american theme
>>738977669>>738977781>who never managed to discover metallurgyIncorrect, see >>>/his/18471859, >>>/his/18475363, >>>/his/18475396, and >>>/his/18475417Even if you're just talking about the groups in the US, they did some cool stuff with cold worked copper, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpmMY_Rcbd8 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippian_copper_plates etc
>>738982304Technically speaking, the Alaskan tribes used iron as well, but they did so by cold-forging meteors, making them extremely valuable pre-Euro contact.
Make John Henry a superboss
>>738981960oops reverse his luck and pathfinding stats my badExpanding on those stats a little:>marksmanshipObviously this is how good you are at drawing, shooting, and reloading. Present that however best fits your gameplay vision.>luckThis is a secondary combat stat that also bleeds into your success rate in other aspects of gameplay. Maybe chars who are bad in Marksmanship but strong in Luck will still land a lot of hits, but they'll be really slow to draw and reload their weapons.>pathfindingHere's where your game sets itself apart from other RPGs. It's basically the 'every skill except combat' stat. Medicine, tracking, foraging, stealth, and other crucial survival traits would be easiest to learn for a char with high pathfinding, and if you leave the city without them you're going to be playing in nightmare mode. Starvation, thirst, disease, supernatural threats, etc. grow more common the further out you go, and there are various skills for dealing with each. I think stealth in particular should be a big part of combat out there, and I envision night time on the frontier in particular as a survival horror experience. I'd recommend making sunset the deadline to gtfo of there except for high-level or specially built characters like the Guide.
>>738982759An example of the gameplay loop:Let's say you're playing the Prospector, who's decent in PATH, especially foraging (for gold). Your good LUCK finds you a vein to mine, and your decent PATH makes it yield a lot of money. However, the sun's going down. If you don't stay to mine out the gold vein, it might be claimed by someone (or something) else when you get back. So you choose to stay the night. You're going to be burning through a lot of your food and water stores while using your stealth/surprise kills on Bone Tomahawk type troglodytes (watch this movie before making your game). Then right before dawn you hear a human voice whisper from the treeline. You've been discovered by a skinwalker or some other super high level threat. Good thing you brought a stick of dynamite or some other consumable. You blow that motherfucker up and continue mining at daybreak, but then have to flee when the explosion attracts bandits. Now you go back to town and restock/level up/recruit minions/whatever. Sadly you can't really access much of the town since you're a nigger, but you brought so much gold with you that you can get a lot of good stuff from Chinatown. You take it out to the Indian reservation to trade for dreamcatchers and return to the area where you found the gold, this time less likely to be found by a monster.
They're not *native* Americans, they arrived there from Asia.
>>738983119They were there first, got dibs.
>>738973989Having indians in an RPG is a mistake since unless you portray that as somehow being noble victims and amazing warriors and people that only lost because of disease you will get crucified. Just replace them with some other generic fantasy race which acts in a similar capacity and is stuck in a certain cultural/technological bubble. My advice would be to have elves with a medieval fantasy style kingdom and decent magic who were part of an ancient empire that were separated from the rest when a cataclysm struck the old world. Who get btfo by the old world people since they have both better tech and an immunity to an ailment which is the reason the empire they apart of crumbled in the first place.
>>738973989>imageYes faggot and? It's fucking awesome, night wolf is one of the coolest MK characters>What are your thoughts on how to handle the Native Americans and Slaves?Depends on the game and story you're trying to create>I feel like my personal qualms with portrayals of these groups is that it's always so one-note, noble savage typesI mean, you can give them guns and shit but imo you're not taking advantage of what they can bring to the table, especially since in your setting cowboys exist and fit that archetype >or exclusively victims.That's because of what happened historically.As i said, it's entirely dependent on what game and story you're going for, for all intents and purposes you can just flip the table and write the story in that period of time but have the natives slowly winning and gaining grounds while the cowboys are slowly losing grounds, that 1 would be a unique take on the setting, 2 it would solve the two problems you have with their portrayal while also keeping the setting intact and 3 it would allow for more freedom in how you write them since for all intents and purposes you've removed them from their context making their usual portrayal unfitting
>>738978837https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYLQOXlNnxw&t=264FOUR NIGGAS IN A ROW
Sex
>>738985245
>>738975887>do native americans look like this irlGod no. Imagine the average diabetic American, now slap on an extra 50lbs, a tan, and a bigger sense of entitlement and superiority than the average Canadian just without the passive aggressive niceness.
>>738984379Why not take the native Alaskan tribes who don't have that baggage unless you're Canadian
>>738973989just portray them as people. some are going to ambush you and try to rob and scalp you. some are going to be friendly and let you trade with them. sometimes whitey will burn down their villages and they'll be victims you can save (or further torment if your game isn't a bitch)
>>738973989The funny thing is Julia isn't even confirmed Native American. She's adopted by Michele who is half Native American/Chinese.
give them magic and they can shapeshift into animals and stuff
>>738973989read period accounts, best source of ideas for the 'texture'>friendly, neutral, and/or antagonisticeasy to justify when there's no unified polity
>>738973989why does the tekken chic look like seung mina in another outfit?
There literally is nothing wrong with what's seen in that image (probably made by a white person).
>>738973989as a redman savage, i say just do some research on the group, avoid negative stereotypes, and keep it sincere to what you wanna create. my biggest pet peeve when it comes to making media is the whole "hurr durr, you cant make things that have native Americans unless your natives American hurr durr", so its cool you wanna incorporate my people/culture in your game OP
>>738974405>theyre all from fighting games
>>738973989Shadow Hearts From the New World unironically has what you seek
