Dead EditionFloorplans/shells:https://www.sims-shellcaster.com/https://watabou.itch.io/procgen-mansion>Current TS4 Update and Version Numberhttps://www.ea.com/games/the-sims/the-sims-4/update-notes>The Repository (/tsg/-made Sims, Lots, and Custom Content)https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ty166yzMb1gooEecd_r5K4VOcGeC7RMXRTbWTTGtCp8/>TS4DB (An anon curated alternative to The Gallery)https://ts4db.com/>Guides, FAQs and Game Downloadshttps://rentry.org/tsg - [FAQ and Game Downloads]https://sims.tarac.nl/the-sims-4/the-sims-4-all-in-one/ - [TS4 Download]https://www.carls-sims-4-guide.com/ - [Gameplay Guides]>Mods and Custom Contenthttps://f95zone.to/threads/the-sims-4-tutorial-optimizing-your-mods-and-finding-cc.56569/ - [Guide to finding CC]https://rentry.org/tsg-guideforsimscc - [CC Essentials/Guide for Sims 3 and 4]https://rentry.org/ts2cc - [CC Guide for The Sims 2]https://rentry.org/ts4cc - [Sims 4 CC Creators]>Patreon and Paid CC Downloadshttps://rentry.org/tsg-patreoncc>Previous Thread>>501640308>Lewd Thread>>>/aco/tslg
we fucking died
>>502596113https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGiTPgvKktM
anti-loli sisters.. we got too cocky
>install slider mods>tfw got to read a 34 page doc to understand how to use themI miss sims3 sliders
>>502597313There really should have been an actual slider for the sliders in CAS. ColonelNutty made some mod that let you set them by numbers while outside CAS but each slider needs to be altered to work for it and it's clunky overall.
>>502597953Honestly if they don't want to make a sequal they should really start porting sims3 stuff like the sliders and expandable build/buy menu. Also WHERE ARE MY TRAITS there are still so few for all the mundane differences between humans and most of them are "likes skill" or "can do skill better". I remember playing a schizoid scientist living in the Bayou and having a blast, I hate these dumb normgroid meme traits like "foodie".
Glasses yes or no.
>>502598854I think glasses would work better if the eyes and eyebrows were lower, so as to have the eyes more at the center of the glasses. Otherwise you have the appearance of a long face due to the distance between the different facial landmarks. To answer the initial question, go for it.
>>502599373the long face is intentional, trying to make her sort of match her brother. Might give their faces a second pass but I'm losing my mind trying to get the body sliders just right.
>>502598854For fashion? Hard to tell when she's naked imo
>>502599650In that case, I'd still advise you to move the nose up just a slight bit. Not by much, but it should balance the face out more without destroying the longer face you're going for. And are you using custom sliders, or just trying something very specific?
>>502600017custom sliders of course>right thigh has a different slider than the leftlosing my mind
>>502596650She's so beautiful
>finally found the pelvic depth sliderit wasn't in the 32 page doc btw
>>502600178I see, can't help you with those sadly, I've no experience with them.>>502600212Thanks.
>>502601260I don't need help, just bumping the thread with minute thoughts honestly. On one hand you can change tons of stuff to make the ideal female form, on other hand you can also totally BOG your sims body unintentionally.
You guys weren't kidding about sims file share being slow as fuck lately..
>>502598854i see nipple
>>502598615Traits being fucking useless and sims acting generally mostly the same, governed solely by the emotions system is still one of the biggest fundamental issues that they can't actually solve without a Sims 5. It pains me to read people go "no I'm fine with 4, it's good enough" when it has by far the least varied and unique sims in the series due to the traits being set up the way they are.
>>502596113I guess I can't sleep anymore.
>>50260426530 minutes later and SFS still hasn't downloaded a 835kB package..
>>502608098Pause and resume the download, that seemed to speed it up for me.
>>502598615>>502607704At this point I wouldn't even be upset if they reused all the assets from Sims 4 for a Sims 5 game but fixed all the underlying engine issues and removed the loading screen between plots. Though even that seems too much to hope for lately.>>502608780I see, will try that next time as it finished.
>>502604831That's areola silly
>>502608885Areola Borealis?
>>502609459. . . yes
Can you indirectly kidnap sims in vanilla? Or if you leave the lot will they get magically released.
>>502612335You can lock sims in but if you leave the lot I believe they're able to leave. I'm not sure if he updates them still but ColonelNutty had a mod for abducting so maybe that'd prevent it, though might just forcefully add them to your family idk.
>>502612335They'll vanish from the lot without mods, you have to be actively present for locked doors to actually work. I think if you use the control any sim mod you can temporarily (permanently) add them to your family and they won't leave. Think there may be some kidnapping mods that still work but I've never used them so I can't say for sure, I just add "kidnapped" sims to the household since it's easier that way.
>>502612796>>502613225I think befriending them, getting them to join the household than adding them to my collection will work then. Thanks.
>spend like an hour downloading game>spend like another few hours downloading all dlc>more time to download all cc and mods i wanna use>by the time i'm done i realize i have to spend even more time to sit down and make new sims and setting up the world, etc. before i can actually start playing>uninstall gameok
>>502616724>uninstallmistake, now you will go through the whole process again if you get the urge to play.
Tried making that gacha girl
>>502619842Just need poses with her iconic smug grin
>>502616724I've never had this issue.
>>502596113Last thread was shit
>>502597313Are you using that 5 settings of 40 sliders booklet?>>502597953Tried and didnt work. All of his mods are unusable
>>502620234Yeah, I need to search for some
>>502624559What should we do to avoid this one becoming shit too?>>502625431Probably haven't updated them then, MCCC and WW also has it out for ColonelNutty so they keep trying to put in stuff in their mods that'll shit with your game if they detect his mods.
>>502625864>MCCC and WW also has it out for ColonelNutty so they keep trying to put in stuff in their mods that'll shit with your game if they detect his mods.Do you when did it start?
>>502626618Been going on for years, not sure if it's actively being done though as I rarely get CN mods. Since around the time CN got driven off LoversLab I think. WW and MCCC also has it out for other mods of the cuter and funnier variety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-JqqSZpGx8>>502595914she's just glad to be included>>502596113feels partially my bad, pardon the absence
>>502627478https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xwmJLlzQNADon't blame yourself Mime anon. Can't be here to babysit all the time friend.
>>502627836:)appreciated friend, great track too
>>502625431yes
Are you decorating for indigenous peoples genocide day /tsg/?
>>502636736Gnomes were the indigenous inhabitants of what is now known as SimNation before the Sims genocided them. We see gnome statues in the not-Thanksgiving holiday as a reminder.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/floater-coffin-28332167Perhaps an fun mod for all the sun shy sims around here.
>>502619842Very nice anon, my favorite gacha girl.
Anyone know if mod the sims is safe again?
>>502641063uuuuuhhhh it wasn't safe? When was this?
>>502641570Someone wrote it got hacked two threads ago. I haven't heard anything since.>>501233483
>>502641570
>>502641873>.pycgoddang ziggers
>sitting at the front of the class AND taking notesNEEEEERD
>>502643492butt
>>502643492gyatt
>>502643492Only one in class too it looks like, double NERD
>>502643901please do not objectify Ms. Marlowe, she's a professional and an esteemed member of the faculty, i'll have you know>>502644843ackshually i'll there's a whole classroom worth of students offscreenso like 5 other people because ts4 classes are fucking TINYsidney was the only one taking notes though
>>502646435aw fuck i forgot the image
>>502646631sexo
>move into the vampire neighborhood starter>it fucking blowsMan they the werewolf starter is actually nice, I geuss they didn't really try for that one.
>>502649160vampire neighborhood was well before they started hiring simmers to do builds. werewolf lots were built by youtubers
>>502646631I want detention with Ms. Marlowe
>>502649358well at least they do that instead of half assing it with modern deco in what's supposed to be some old home.
>>502649690>bro wants to spend an hour copying equations into a notebook>or worse, wants to sit quietly for an hour with no access to his phone
>>502640390Thanks, anon!
Maybe this general would be kept alive if everyone posted good looking sims for once
>>502657664Lead by example, sir.
>>502657664go for it you won't
>>502657664jerk
>>502658086do they engage in hardcore lesbian sexual intercourse with each other in public spaces
hey threadwhat do you think the next dlc is gonna be?
>>502660287Disabilities
Post lesbian sims
>>502661335do bisexual sims count?
>>502661414anyone willing to kiss the same sex
>>502660287Something the thirty something white girls who make up the bulk of the playerbase will cream themselves over, like van life (homelessness) or some shit.
>>502661985>anyone willing to kiss the same sexwell in that case
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m40xi-f5JUI>>502637204:o
>>502664435Yes, Mimi. You too will have to pay reparations for living on stolen land.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BRSus9eU10
>>502658182Not in my game. Seeing as they're both available to download though, I don't see anything stopping anyone.
>>502636736Jenny has the perfect outfit for such an occasion
whatever happened to all the homo posters
>>502660287music and bands
>furniture is literal trash>super expensive; good stats>furniture is extremely gaudy and looks hand crafted>cheap; terrible statserrytime, is there an autism mega patch of all maxis furniture so it makes more sense?
>>502660287by analyzing historical data and previous trends, I'd say something gay and lamevery bold prediction I know
>>502685776but we got so much goth kino nyooooo I don't want to go back to alphabet soup aesthetic.
Only the finest quality smokes for Valeria..>>502643492That's a very pretty school.
>>502694660
>was going to post screenshot of sims>they are both macabre so one of them is glowing blue>can't find mod to disable itecks dee
>>502685776What skirt is that? Been kinda looking for something in that vein.
>>502697606Macabre? You mean occult? Is it like a fullbody blue sock with glow or what? Post screens.
>>502700220yeah it's the blue glow, I just head translated that from german idk what english version it is called
>>502643492Share school lot
some people really don't take the idea of marriage very well>>502698034https://www.patreon.com/posts/may-2022-66061903
>>502701776It's just an American wedding.>>502700378If you don't end up finding it yourself you could use the tray exporter program, it lists all the mods being used for each character in the family.
>>502702040it's from maxis dlc though.
>>502703273So not a broken mod making the blue light then?
>>502703460no it's fully intentional, it just looks bad. Does MCCC have a way to disable all the particles? pic unrelated. Wakey wakey wagies!
Do good trait mods exist for 4
>>502701776Thanks a bunch for the link anon!>>502707897Not really. They tend to be even more surface-level than the default ones since there's so much extra work you have to do with autonomy and the mood system and custom interactions. Most seemingly are largely passive moodlet generators.
`>loner sim plays piano>game trigger causes all sims on the lot to flock to him to watch making him nervousget out! shoo!
Dying again /tsg/?
>>502701309took me a sec to find it, here ya gohttps://ladychaos.tumblr.com/post/692813648739090432/hi-everyone-im-happy-to-share-a-new-build>>502726497n-no, i swear
Ì forgot how easy it is to cuck sims in this game, not much of a challenge.
>>502726497i enjoy this sim
>>502726497Sweet death....
>>502700220>>502703460No I think he meant the new macabre trait that makes your sims glow blue
>>502734667I haven't really explored the newer traits any so had no idea there even was one called that much less there being one that made you glow blue.
>>502701776>Darkstalkers are NOT DEADdoes she know
>>502726497Sorry I had to move laptops and reinstall everything so now I'm stuck updating mods for the next decade or so.
>>502737047
>>502728162Thanks anon!
>>502728162Alright, but I'm keeping my eye on you>>502733717Death..>>502736586..and rebirthin about a decade>>502731009Rock on
>>502737047>>502738240what the fuck
Well, it's been a decade and I realized that the game taking 40+ minutes to load probably indicates it's not actually going to finish loading ever, so we're back to the drawing board and figuring out what the fuck mod is breaking everything and by that I mean going to bed since it's 2am.
>>502745646We are so back why the fuck did it take over 40 minutes to not load into one save but now it works in a few with another one
>>502746283No idea, seems my game has a 50/50 chance to just shut down when I start it lately.
>>502748029I think the save is just fucked with the new patch, retrying it now and it gets into the world screen but when I actually pick a household it's stuck loading seemingly forever. The other save with just two played households was so much faster that I doubt it's just the size of the save either. But yeah let's keep going with this same codebase for ten more years, surely nothing can go wrong!
>>502735887yes she has insider infonew entry announcement in 2 weeks
>>501970548play-testing this build is going about as expected>>502665383shoot, she better stay off the ground then>>502734667da ba dee
>>502749142You know that skelly had it good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkG3_K8NjWc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BinWA0EenDY
>>502759957>not making the mime bluOne job....
>>502759957>>502760216
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrjKYX3Cs7c>>502760216oops>>502763085nice work!
>>502754051mimi a cute!
https://www.patreon.com/posts/fixsocialbunnysi-116065084
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKRrfAzdpW8>>502769479no u, friend
that's all for now, have a great day or night!
ATF has been updated
This is all perfectly normal.>>502748029I'm having the same problem.>>502595914I love that she is looking at the Sims logo here.
>>502782523>>502790374i knew Jenny's curves were killer but damn
>modco only contentwhy are sims 4 cc makers so cringethey continue to find ways to be cringe
do NOT die
It's been half a year since I last played this save and the first thing I see is Sydney breaking the computer while gaming in the nude on a Sunday morning. Relatable.>>502804506Sorry I was waiting out the timer.
This part's less relatable though
>>502778698
What happens when kids don't get enough sugar?
>>502807983They spontaneously grow up and become teenagers?
>Do sims Uni for first time>Move to dorm>Just merges the dorms households and fundsWhat the Jank?
>>502811626>textured ceilingMod!? Or did they add the ability to floor ceilings like sims3?
>>502811770as far as I can tell, sometimes random townies move into the dorms, which causes the game to treat it as a household. the last time it happened to me I just used the other dorm, but I suppose you can also just delete that household in particular from world management
>>502813765yeah thinking I'll just study from home. Since it might sell their house if I move his sister to the same dorm. On that note does sims4 even have property ownership?
>>502811770The irony is it doesnt even let you get to class faster either as they still have the same loading screen teleport as a regular lot.>>502812050Base game feature for a while now.
>>502815897I just came back, literally soijaking. Now if only they could unfuck basements under foundations.
>>502816047>literally soijakingwhat
>>502811626Ew
>>502816737I don't have any examples saved sorry, maybe someone will post one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckK3bJbvVws
hmm...
>>502829895well this exists
>>502829895yoinking this because I am terrible at creating the basic shape of a building.
I wish hovering over a draggable slider had a label on what it is you're actually messing with rather than having you figure it all out the hard way
>>502830134>>502830204feel free, and there are more like it at:https://archive.org/details/buildingtechnologyheritagelibrary
>>502830507still a wip
>>502830134I feel like it should be slight wider
>>502830753the plan calls for this corner to have a conversation pit, still looking for a way to make it work in a house without foundation>>502831278probably! :p
>>502831556a mockup on a foundation shows the intended arrangementif anyone has ideas on how to achieve this with a house flat on the ground, feel free to share!
>>502832330but for now, the house is all one level
>>502832559outlets aren't all in yet, except in the kitchen...
>>502826394>>502816737picrel
>>502832805...and the family room has been rearranged to accommodate the lack of a basement
>>502833585pink everywhere!
>>502833856and that's it for now. finishes and furnishings subject to change. thanks for looking!
>>502834139cozy build, quaint eventoo bad about the conversation pit, cause that's a neat feature
Okay, game's utterly beyond fucked now. All the occult sim stuff not working unless your sim has a dark form, saves fucked because if you had a hybrid sim on there and now I'm getting the old CAS bug where the fucking name and traits get merged onto another sim and can't be changed back. Great stuff all around. Never update your game, it's never worth it.
>>502832330I like it. what's the problem with using foundation? no carpet?also that's a funny concept. I don't think I've ever seen a conversation corner irl, I guess tv corner overtook it
>>502841456>literally every women wears yoga pants>one yoga pant in the game and it's from a dlc>it's relatively low res too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XLm-und-qc>>502837882many thanks :) also agreed, but haven't given up yet>>502841684a foundation would lift up the house and throw off exterior proportions, making the house look awkward; the attached garage would have some messed up brick textures toopits are an interesting concept! they were a thing in the mid 20th century, with the plan in >>502829895 being a rather early examplehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversation_pit
Figures that the latest version of the save that works is the one I made just before the wacky tube prison shenanigans. Alright game, fine. You win. No more CIA blacksites or kidnappings or planned human trafficking arcs.
>>502849272>no more kidnappingsThat kid can't stop napping though
>>502849272Gyatt
>>502850059It's true, but we'll just pretend it's not happening and everything will be okay
>>502792103Slay girl.
Oh shit, new bug just dropped. Invisible tea!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cN80PWnoKJk>>502849272dog :)>>502851035great mime work!>>502850059*ba dum tss*
>>502850740need to bend this teenage girl over and breed her ass
Oh no, the save file that loads gets stuck in an infinite saving screen instead. It's so over. I didn't think to test it first thing either.
>tried to make edgy sims with new macabre trait>still same goofball animationsI geuss sims can only be silly
How can I roll back to previous game version?
>>502858193I'm sorry, but it's over...
Yeah fuck you stupid cool new map, you ruined my shit>>502858193You don't. You'll have to install an older version if you want to downgrade, which is a hassle even if you're pirating since availability of older releases is spotty at best.
what kind of signal do vegetarian phones get?salad bars!
>>502863509
>>502863869tough crowd
>>502849272>>502852104https://youtu.be/QxaCgaXHh8k?si=OeqvOxxmRcuzb0p8what the dog doing?
How do I make money with AEP video royalties?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGRBcagh0_8>>502863869:p>>502868536the world may never know
>>502874302Not the same way writers royalties work? Some sort of weekly check or however often it is.
thread dying?that's detention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5rzk_X_WhQ
>>502888657oh man, mimegirl'd be in trouble if she had to phone a friend, huh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_6XQp08pgM>>502888863could be! :o
that's all for now, enjoy your [time of day here] and keep the thread bumped frens
>>502841994>literally every women wears yoga pantsUS thing
>>502853663How do you breed an ass?
>>502856107I like it when sims act silly
>>502894001with high impact sexual violence
>>502896951sims acting silly is the best part of the game desu
>>502830507>>502830753>>502831556damn i miss my granma :(
fuckers keep bailing mid-conversation to do pushups or situpswhy
>>502897854Plap plap plap
>>502906605gotta respect that hustle, ignore bitches, acquire gains
>>502906605Isn't that the Energized moodlet doing that?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCTB6JlwQ-k
>>502919904cute
>>502921882thanks anon!
>>502919904I'm not kidding, I didn't see the appeal of the whole MySims franchise until now. They should make a new one, I want to make cute tiny sims too.
>>502934817I don;t play it much. I downloaded the game just to see if I could make textures for it, it was pretty easy but finding the individual textures I wanted to edit was frustrating.
Oh cool, just what the game needed, more attention-grabbing popups that are completely pointless. Why would I possibly care about romance dynamics when I already couldn't care less about family dynamics?
>>502948857well it's in the game since it's a life sim and family and romance are kind of important in that
>>502948857>choose to perform romantic, friendly or funny interactions with each other more oftenAnd then each moodlet will completely override this behavior.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFziMnMQXbo>>502941972well done!
The HMS /tsg/ is taking in water and keeps sinking to the bottom of page 10. All crew and passangers missing.
What in the fuck is going on with these two attempting to sleep
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4df2CMrpqqo>>502963106hoist the mainsail and unfurl the mizzenmast!
>>502965782Reenacting a scene from the Godfather, I think
>>502902445condolences fren
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EGHWxtylyQ
Good news for My Sims.The MySims Cozy Bundle just released yesterday and has charted as 3rd in the Nintendo Switch best sellers right be hind Mario Party and Mario & Luigi, it also has out sold the recent Dragon Quest 3 remake.It is also EA's fastest and best selling game on the Switch. Although i admit that's not saying much do to EA's Switch library it it sold more than Apex Legends, a F2P game.The MySims sub-series has been revived and hopefully this lets EA know that there's a market for it.
>>502976439Ah, I see the girls are enjoying a bit of mime tea as well.
>>502973186never played these but they seem interesting
I gotta admit, now that this save file suddenly also saves properly, I think I prefer the nothing ever happens family shenanigans over silly CIA subplots that go nowhere. Now if only they'd fix the disappearing occult eyes bug because I did not spend hours fixing the other disappearing occult eyes bug with a workaround only to have that hard work taken from me and spat back in my face.
Bump
>>502948857>>502951856Family and Romance go hand in hand and are best paired together :)
>>502998657based
Im still playing on 1.100.147.1030 (just before For Rent update)Is it worth updating?
>>503000197Ravenholm, I mean Ravenwood is a cool neighborhood but I geuss it depends how many mods you would need to update.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBbET6aVN9c>>502976439impressive
>>503000197I would say it's a pretty good time to update. Most mods seem to have been updated. But I would check if your favorite ones have current updates before doing it.
Just spent about an hour slowly, laboriously going through my mods folder since it turns out my save loading issues were actually mod-related. Wasn't all in vain, I think I finally got it but good lord what a tedious process when everything's so messy. I ended up having to just 50/50 shit and never discovered a smoking gun, just a few outstanding problem mods and then the culprit is something that shouldn't be broken or at least not break entire saves. Maybe now it'll actually work?>>502998657I like this post.
Oh wait, no. It fixed a save load issue, but not the save load issue. But that's fixed by removing all mods too so I guess it's time round fucking two!>>503000197Never update. You will be driven mad.
>>503000197>Is it worth updating?yes
I'm glad I barely use mods
>>503004509sims is like the one game I don't mod a lot because of how anoying it is to track down mods for it with how decentralized the modding is.
>browse /v/>catbox link>actual cheese pizzaYeah thinking I don't click catbox links on /v/ anymore.
>>503004509mods are the only thing keeping this general and game alive
>>503003950It was a random CC set this whole time
http://www.eichlersocal.com/the-eichler-community/eichler-floor-plans-fairhills/
>>502998657>>503001879>>503004154Please turn anti-aliasing on.
>>503014952I don't have a gpu and can't get one for a while. My ancient i5 can only do so much.
>>502998657Why are they so low resolution?
>>503018734I play on a potatoe ;ー;
>>503019230Nice baby bump, I wish more anons posted pregnant sims
You guys are degens, gonna start a commune to purify the thread
>>503020618
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_aQYP8rsgEIt's funny you can just visit the highschool like it's a library or gym
>>503021379Forgive me father for I have simmed.
hi just started playing whats the best animations to use with wicked whims?
>>502595914Where do you get those cool outfit mods to make sims closer to another fictional character? not just using base game to try and look like them. I want to have Princess Daisy and Ryuko Matoi in my harem for wickedwhims
>>503025374Make a loverslab account if you don't have one and browse the downloads here. It's where most of animations are posted.https://www.loverslab.com/files/category/161-the-sims-4/
>>502976439cute
>>503020618I'll post pregnant Mary once she's further along
>>503025503I just search up "sims 4" + whatever character I'm looking for or sometimes cosplay for sims.
Why is 99% of the thread female characters? do you guys self insert as them or what?
>>503031908No my self-insert fucks them
>>503031908Because my male sims always look stupid
>>503028818Norman’s Mary?
>>502829895after some digging, here's a better scan of this design with fewer doodling on the page, and the book it's from!https://archive.org/details/HomemasterPublicationsHomedesignsforluxuriouslivin0001/mode/2up?view=theater
>>503031908majority of /tsg/ is female
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM8DxE5nt4U
>>503038235lel
>>503038235female or "female"
>>503038235Starting in 2025 all "females" shall be referred to only by their biological sex. This is law.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWk9qsxEWKg
>>502998657A Jenny approved post.
>>503037213neat find, lots of good build reference in there
>>503031908because the male posters come and go, and the most prominent thread regulars and contributors play with female sim characters that's why>>503038235so, these females, are they in the thread with us right now?
anyone else's game crash when you use khlas's big dick trait mod?
>>503063987I get errors. I think he added it to his male interactions mod last update, so standalone BDP is out of date.
