i make yellow science in an assembler

true men make yellow science by hand

>>507096135
me too

>>507096284
yellow science is stored in the balls

>>507096996
no thats space science

>>507097323
No, that's planetary science. It's stored in the quads that's why it's round

>>507097964
im gonna store my space science in your bussy

>>507096996
>>507097323
>>507098945
fun fact: semen is not actually pure white, but a sickly yellowish off-white color
you can see this by placing it against

>>507099226
That's a lie. I've personally sampled a lot of semen and it's white like eggshell.

Playing stationeers, any way to deconstruct the starting chests or do I have to dump em in a hole somewhere?

What's the deal with all the talk about C/C++ memory safety as of late? I've been a programmer since the late 90s and I've almost never seen anyone talk about memory safety until it blew up this year. It almost feels like people are just repeating what chatgpt tells them (dead internet theory I guess?). But seeing people talking about it as cons concerning factorio and satisfactory just make no sense to me. Can someone explain how memory safety is a "concern" for factory games?

>>507100492
>What's the deal with all the talk about C/C++ memory safety as of late?
I've never heard about anyone talking about memory safety desu. Then again I don't spend much time in these threads

>>507100492
>the ign review of satisfactory who listed "c++ memory risk" as a con
honestly no idea

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prod bonus on, prod bonus off.
prod bonus on, prod bonus off.
who knew 25% could cut resource costs 2/3.

>>507100492
just ignore them
muh memory safety has been talked about ever since rust started being shilled
>>507100623
he probably means the fags that talk memory management because they're sooo much better (they're not)

>>507100492
it's a rust tranny psyop

>>507100492
>of late
it's one anon who found a performance waste with factorio mem management and started posting pics. dunno if it's real or not but earendel is to blame

>>507100369
You deconstruct them with the drill iirc. You can get rid of the lander too with an angle grinder.

>>507100882
We did. This is very old news. Since you can put prod on multiple parts of the chain, they're all multiplicative with each other. So if you have 5 machines to go through, you would get 1.4*1.4*1.4*1.4*1.4. Over 5 times more stuff out of a single thing.
That's pre space age, now with space age you got even more prod and machines and new ways to get more stuff out of what you have.

>>507100882
is this darksydephil?

>>507100952
>>507101063
Nta. Why is rust being shilled?

>>507101325
Drill works, thank you anon
Will try the lander and the angle grinder soon-ish

>>507102831
angle grinder does work, just checked
thank you again

>>507100492
It's an NSA psyop.
>NSA advises organizations to consider making a strategic shift from
programming languages that provide little or no inherent memory protection, such as C/C++ and assembly, to a memory safe language when possible. Some examples of memory safe languages are Python, Java, C#, Go, Delphi/Object Pascal, Swift, Ruby, Rust, and Ada.
https://media.defense.gov/2022/Nov/10/2003112742/-1/-1/0/CSI_SOFTWARE_MEMORY_SAFETY.PDF

Jokes aside, languages need to be memory safe these days because developers are getting more incompetent and can't be trusted to write memory safe programs.

>>507103332
I'm waiting for the day that the new Windows just snaps in half endlessly when it tries to auto-launch Teams on boot

>>507103332
>But what if you don't set a value when you declare a variable!?
Is there any reason whatsoever to not set a value when you declare a variable?

how many recyclers do you need to empty the various belt colors?

>>507104510
should have mentioned scrap recycling, not other recipes.

>>507104360
it saves a single cpu cycle, I'm a bit of a code optimizer myself so it's very important.

>>507104510
Anon, you can literally see how much scrap each of your recyclers consume per second. I'll give you the belt items per second and you gonna divide that number by the number on your recycler.
15 for yellow
30 for red
45 for blue
60 for green
Multiply by 4 if your big drills fully stack the belts.
I'll go a bit further, recyclers work at 0.5 speed and the recipe takes 0.2 second. So 0.4 second per craft. Or 2.5 scrap per second. Now divide 15 by 2.5... You got your answer. What about beacons? Just look it up in game.
The game literally gives you a basic rate calculator, use it.

>>507105213
i hadn't put a scrap inside one yet...was planning a layout before i actually started recycling...im sorry...

>>507105443
Recyclers are not input limited, they're output limited. So your question doesn't really make sense since it becomes obsolete very quickly.

>>507107074
im using bots to sort the ouputs so all i cared about was how many i could feed with a single green belt

>>507104662
Scrap recycling has a crafting time of .2s
A scrap recycler has a crafting speed of .5, .65, .8, .95, or 1.25
The real time to craft, then, is .4s, .30769s~, .25s, .21052s~, or .16s

The output of scrap recycling is 20% gear, 3%wire, 1%ore, 4%stone, 5%ice,4%battery,6%concrete,4%steel,7%solid fuel,1%lds, 3% adv circuit, 2%processing unit. The total output% is 20+3+1+4+5+4+6+4+7+1+3+2 = 60%
However, sometimes the recycler will produce nothing. As far as I know, it could simply produce every object for every craft, technically. In that case, the output has a range of 12 objects to zero objects, with an average of .6 objects.

For a speed of 1 second/craft, a recycler would produce .6 objects/second.
Average output is .6*crafting speed.

Belt capacity is 15, 30, 45, 60 per second.

Recyclers needed on average is Bcap/.6/craftingSpeed
15/.6/.5 = 50 basic recyclers behaving unexceptionally.
60/.6/.5 = 200 basic recyclers behaving unexceptionally.
15/.6/1.25 = 20 legendary recyclers behaving unexceptionally.
60/.6/1.25 = 80 legendary recyclers behaving unexceptionally.

>>507108142
>im using bots to sort the ouputs
why? using belts for that is more fun and it makes easier to handle overflow

If you include, say, 4 basic speed modules, that's +80% speed
15/.6/(.5*1.8) = 27.77770 basic recyclers behaving unexceptionally.
60/.6/(.5*1.8) = 111.1111 basic recyclers behaving unexceptionally.
15/.6/(1.25*1.8) = 11.1111 legendary recyclers behaving unexceptionally.
60/.6/(1.25*1.8) = 44.44444 legendary recyclers behaving unexceptionally.

And lastly, since productivity modifications are not available, lets say you add in 4 quality 1 modules. That's -20%speed with a 4% chance to intend to create a quality product. You can do the *.8 speed yourself. Just replace the 1.8 above. The real shit, here, is that this jams your system. If you're using, say, yellow belts, then your machine can output, at most, 7.5 objects per second, assuming it outputs on every tick or some such lossless process. A basic recycler can create up to 12/.2*.5*.8 = 24 objects per second. This means that, after a recycler recycles, it may fail to eject all material before it crafts again. On those occasions, it may attempt to create a quality object under a non-quality object, or may attempt to create a non-quality under a quality, and so may pause and do nothing until it is empty. How much time does a recycler lose to these semi-rare sounding events? How many conflicts per second can be expected to occur, and how many objects will need to be removed on average in order to allow each conflict to resolve?
God help you if you try to calculate it.

And can't stack inserters also increase the output of an individual recycler, and also the effective speed of a belt?
Good think I haven't built one of those yet, and can't speak on the matter.

>>507105213
>how many to EMPTY a belt
o...oh

>>507108458
takes less space, also its not easier to sort overflow. i just have a second block of recyclers with decider combinators+ arithmetic combinators for deciding what goes to overflow recycling. takes much less space than a belt based system

>>507108621
you don't need circuits to manage overflow in a belt system

>>507108689
it takes 2 seconds to set up a circuit and i don't need to waste the space on my island that a belt/splitter based system would take. seething beltsisters

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>>507104360
It's a helpful reminder to check that your functions are correctly declaring values on starting when your program crashes repeatedly

>>507108852
I get wanted to use bots, but if space is a concern for you, you should have spent 5 minutes finding a bigassbutt island to set up shop on because unlike Vulcanus or Gleba, it doesn't matter how far you are away from the starter area

>>507108513
Well, it uses 1 on average instead of .6 output on average, which means you just take the answers from the two tables above and multiply by .6

That's 30,
120
12
48

16.666,
66.66666
6.666666
26.666666

for the same types of recyclers in the above 2 sets of examples.

>>507109007
i already did find a big island, but its not nauvis levels of space.

>>507108296
>>507108513
The output didn't matter for his question and recyclers vomit stuff on belts directly and can stack stuff by default (it is done in a counter intuitive way though). Productivity modifiers are available. It's a research, it's infinite and doesn't cap at 300%. It's effectively another multiplier for your mining drills. Just not on the machine. The recycling of crafted things is absolutely not worth calculating as it has many factors.
Recyclers are internally just furnaces, recipes are created procedurally, in the same way barrels are. So mapping out the exact ratio for everything would be too much of a pain to do.

>>507110079
>The output didn't matter for his question
That is the meaning of the last line of the post, yes.
This was realized.

>can stack stuff by default
That's news to me, however. I don't recall seeing stacked objects on my belts.

>prod research
It's effectively speed * (1+.1*prodLVL)
10 levels of research would mean *2 output, which means 50% of the required recyclers. That sounds simple enough, until you stuff quality in the mix and/or include stacking throughput.

Now, every single recycler has, at 100% prod, 1 chance to jam every single time it rolls the same kind of object twice in a single output, as well as a larger chance of having multiple same-objects to stack on a belt, apparently.

But yes, that wasn't the question.

Terratech (the first one) is free on epic games just for today
You do have an epic account, right? From when you purchased satisfactory when it was heavily in development and exclusive? You are not a steam newfag are you?

>>507111153
Don't have Steam, don't have Epic, both companies can lick my sweaty balls, and you deserve to be publicly executed by brutal torture.

>>507111017
The bonus from prod can be something different. It just does the recycling scrap recype twice. Recycling scrap does exactly what it says it does (even if it's a bit counter intuitive), each item has a chance to be produced and they're all separate rolls (it's a bit more complex than that under the hood but for the purpose of calculating what you will get, this is how it works).
>It's effectively speed * (1+.1*prodLVL)
>10 levels of research would mean *2 output, which means 50% of the required recyclers. That sounds simple enough, until you stuff quality in the mix and/or include stacking throughput.
I know how it works, I was simply correcting what you said about productivity not being available. It is available and it effectively multiplies richness of your scrap patches, in the same way mining productivity does it.

>drop my mining drill
>it phases into the moon
fuck this game

>>507112492
>each item has a chance to be produced and they're all separate rolls
does it work this way for asteroid reprocessing as well?
what about uranium?

>>507107074
>they're output limited
IIRC it takes 7 levels of recycling productivity for the output to catch up to 2.5 items/second. So early game you can size it for the input.

For those who played Stationeers before, does the game despawn items/ores that have been dropped?

>>507112828
I haven't checked. Kovarex obviously doesn't work like that, fun fact, this is because of kovarex that productivity was reworked to give you the result-cost instead of giving you tons of free stuff.
I highly suspect that it would work the same way, yes. I don't see why productivity would take into account the main process instead of just doing a separate roll.

>>507112828
Sorry, I misread what you meant. No, uranium doesn't work like that. It produces 1 thing. Same thing for asteroid reprocessing. It takes 1 input, gives back 1 output. This mechanic is unique to scrap. Which is why it's counter intuitive. It's a very literal interpretation of what is written.
Not sure why Wube made scrap that way and didn't mention it in game.

I think scrap works differently because it has a chance to give you nothing, if I were to guess, this is a way for wube to balance scrap recycling. Uranium processing and asteroid reprocessing always give you something back. So one is meant to be read as "You will get something and here are the chances for that thing to be either that or something else" whether scrap recycling is meant to be "you have a chance to get anything on this list".

>>507117768
pretty sure asteroid reprocessing has a 20% chance to give nothing

>>507118042
It does and making it lossy is 100% intentional to stop endless cycling asteroids.

>>507118042
Yep, and it can give you 2 things from a single craft. Just tested it in game. Same for scrap recycling. Also tested in game, got concrete and red chip from a single craft without prod. Also tested for uranium processing and... It works and even better than that, during my testing I had 2 fails. Like, I got neither. No u235 or 238. But the uranium ore was still consumed.
So this confirms that it works exactly as written. You can get both, neither or either. Which is obviously extremely counter intuitive. That's some Noita level of doing exactly what it says.
I vaguely remember the modding documentation saying that it worked differently so it's either a bug or I misremembered it. Likely the later.

>>507118858
Good thing we can mod away this objectively retarded mechanic.

>>507119105
wow, i really didn't think uranium processing would work that way

>>507119240
I can also confirm that it functions like that in 1.1. I just tested it. I got a fail and a u235+u238.
So it's (almost certainly) not a bug, or if it is, it's not a space age/2.0 bug. It works exactly as advertised... Which is a bit funny but makes a lot of sense if you think about it.
This little quirk means that when you get some enriched uranium, you will also get some depleted uranium in the same craft 99.3% of the time.

>>507119105
>That's some Noita level of doing exactly what it says.
Cast 4 projectiles with 5% crit each? OH YOU MEAN CAST 4 PROJECTILES WITH 20% CRIT EACH RIGHT!?

>>507120207
Each projectile gives +5% crit chance so if you cast 4 of them at once, you get 4 times +5% crit chance. Literally what it says in the description.

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>>507099226
>sickly yellowish off-white colo
that actually means there's something wrong with it
healthy semen is open gray like pic related on the left, right is white for comparison

Alright I found a 2017 forum post by klonan that confirms that the independent rolls are intended behavior and not a bug. I simply misremembered the documentation.

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>Leave Gleba walled off by combined arms turret nodes
>Get notification a node was destroyed
>Incursion is defeated by other nodes in a defense-in-depth system
>Bots automatically rebuild the destroyed node
>Build two more at the breach point
It's just that easy!

>>507121897
link?

>>507122656
https://forums.factorio.com/47739

>>507123245
i wonder why they decided to make it work this way

>>507116949
>does the game despawn items/ores that have been dropped?
I don't think so, but they can be destroyed by storms if left outside and ice can melt in the sun even on vacuum worlds.

>>507124273
Because it was an interesting feature, nobody noticed the bizarre way it was implemented and it effectively doesn't change the math at all.

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>>507121683

>>507121683
It could just be pee mixed in. Or very stale semen.

I know this is /egg/, and autism and ADHD are a given, but why in the fuck of fucks are we talking about the color of semen? Are you all actual faggots, too?

>>507121683
>>507126908
it is normally only visible against white backgrounds but there is definitely a yellow hue

>>507130452
>but there is definitely a yellow hue
not in mine

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>>507130257
>Are you all actual faggots, too?
No, just autistic enough to start arguing over just about anything with the right provocation.
People arguing to find out the truth and not merely establish the social pecking order.
Insane notion innit.

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>>507126528
kek

>>507130763
It's the fucking color of fucking semen, you closet homosexual.
You wanna know how many times a year I think about fucking semen? That's right, nilch.

>>507130662
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/xucd53/semen_white_on_hand_and_yellow_on_tissue_why/
it does seem like there might be some variance from individual to individual and it may also depend in part on diet, but i have to wonder if maybe you just think your semen is pure white/grey because you've never looked closely at it against a pure white background
under normal conditions it absolutely does LOOK white

>>507124273
Allows the output to contain combinations of things without having to manually code the combinations and combined probabilities as independent entries.

how do I get pentapod eggs, im playing on peaceful because nilaus told me to on my first playthrough

>>507131107
For someone claiming to be the straightest man alive you sure put a lot of emphasis on calling others gay and coming up with wild reasons for it.
But that's surely just a coincidence, right? Or is it?

>>507131418
/editor

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>>507095891
I made these two.
Tell me what you think. Which is better and why.

>>507131418
peaceful still creates spawners for this exact reason

>>507131418
doesn't peaceful still make spawners?

>>507131616
left because of more blocks
the circle is really pointless though

>>507131616
left is more aesthetic

>>507131819
>left because of more blocks
how is that a perk
>the circle is really pointless though
it isn't. it serves a function
>>507131927
looks wise, yes. But if right does everything left does with less, it becomes aesthetic in it's simplicity and efficiency.

>>507131757
>>507131818
I used a mod that makes it peaceful after I already made the world

>>507132269
so you used a mod that broke the game?
sorry i guess you're fucked

>>507131440
>immediately employs strawman as ego defense mechanism
In better times scum like you would've been gassed.

>>507132695
mentally ill post

>>507132754
We also would've filmed your torturous demise as to show children in school what happens if they step out of line.

>>507132927
mentally ill post

>actual faggot desperately tries to fit in by... non-stop talking about faggots
Truly fascinating.

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>>507131189
Pic related is literally my color, i just tested it on a blank A4 paper and took a color sample in a dark room using only the camera's flash as a light source
There was no yellow in it to the visible eye, nor can the AI see it

# Load the uploaded image
image_path = '/mnt/data/1734847912007gw7xn1n3.png'
image = Image.open(image_path)

# Convert the image to a NumPy array for analysis
image_array = np.array(image)

# Check the number of color channels
image_array.shapeThe image has 3 color channels (RGB). I will now analyze the colors to check for any yellow present in the image. Reshape the array to isolate RGB values
reshaped_array = image_array.reshape(-1, 3)

# Define thresholds for yellow detection (approximate range in RGB)
yellow_lower = np.array([190, 190, 0]) # Lower bound for yellow
yellow_upper = np.array([255, 255, 150]) # Upper bound for yellow

# Identify pixels that fall within the yellow range
yellow_pixels = np.all((reshaped_array >= yellow_lower) & (reshaped_array <= yellow_upper), axis=1)

# Calculate the percentage of yellow pixels in the image
yellow_percentage = np.sum(yellow_pixels) / reshaped_array.shape[0] * 100

yellow_percentageThe image contains **0% yellow**. There are no yellow pixels detected in the image.

>>507133374
>t. actually mentally ill

>>507133457
interesting, i guess there really is individual variation then

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>egg discusses semen colour

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>>507131616

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Recently started this game and wanted maybe a couple of tips but as of now I feel like my iron is very bottlenecked

>>507134415
>I feel like my iron is very bottlenecked
Produce more iron

>>507134415
Red inserters.
For a larger hint, insert a second quarter
by which I mean say so.

>>507134415
You'll need to scale up iron production. Not only is iron used for damn near everything, but you also need to process it into steel.
That coal patch is going to last a long time so don't worry about using it for smelting.

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>>507134497
>>507134604
>>507134610
my current iron mining operation lol
I'm getting to green flasks at the moment but when do I worry of the bugs? they have a small base on one corner

>>507135006
>when do I worry of the bugs?
Bugs will attack when your pollution reaches their nests, which you can check on the map. Either place turrets where you think they will come from or go kill the nests in your pollution cloud.

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>>507135006
When it flickers red over their nests.

>>507135006
Open your map and look at the icons on the right side. One of them is pollution. Click on that and you can see your pollution cloud. Once that touches a bug base, they'll start attacking you. Attacks always come from a bug base, so in the early game you only need to defend specific sections of your base instead of setting up massive perimeter walls. Still, you'll want to automate turret, ammo, and wall production when you can spare the resources - you will need them in mass quantities later!

Pollution is produced by most buildings, but gets absorbed by trees and large bodies of water, so bases on the other side of a forest are likely not to bother you for a long time.

>>507135006
>when do I worry of the bugs?
Everyone else gave more detailed answers but

When it happens, you'll know

>>507135006
It stinks and they don't like it

>>507135337
A bunch of little Jay Shermans

Distressing

>>507135006
Regarding bugs, you need to clear those out from the areas where you plan to build your base before they start growing.
I am not quite experienced enough to know what this will do to their evolution rate, but I do know they are easiest to get rid of now, and that a bug base which is too close will just constantly send bugs which cost resources to kill. There will be a pollution cloud generated around your buildings which needs to not touch any spawners.

If you want to know what's bottlenecked, you see what's full. Your iron ore line is filling up, and will backup eventually. The iron smelters don't have enough output to fully saturate a belt, but they DO have enough output to back up your iron-line until it stops some of your smelters from running. This is to say, your iron production is currently greater than your iron consumption. That means that doubling your iron production, while good, won't actually increase the amount of science or bullets you are getting per second.

So, you either just keep putting down extra flask-setups until you actually run dry on supplies while feeding those into damage-upgrades, or you grab a handful of bullets and chuck them at some nests.

Personally, I spent time making a fuckload of walls, which isn't actually a good idea that early on.

>>507135767
>Personally, I spent time making a fuckload of walls, which isn't actually a good idea that early on.
It's fine. You can always recycle these into military science.

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>>507135150
>>507135242
>>507135279
>>507135337
>>507135767
shit it got jinxed, thanks for the tips tho

>>507137567
Just make more bullets.

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You like my Nauvis landing pad request setup? Hyep. Caps a request for every single import via a different recombinator. Pretty efficient if you ask me.

>>507138838
what makes this better than just using the logistic groups

>>507139504
I'm gonna go with 'essentially nothing'. I guess because the science that I import is stored next to the biolabs if the logistics bots lag behind on delivering a science pack then it won't delay the science entering the lab, because it would otherwise still be in the landing pad. But essentially nothing, since logistics shouldn't lag behind on anything anyway with 10,000 idling logistics bots.

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>eleggtrician

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are they supposed to make be that fast with bases? last I checked there were only like 2 and 3 bases

>>507141676
It depends.
either way, hope you've got a few turrets at this point.

>>507141676
Until the evolution level kicks in and you get physical damage resistant biters your gun turrets will demolish biters so long as you have them ammo-fed.

Be sure to check the map's pollution for when you should expect an attack. If your red cloud reaches the nests then an attack is imminent.

i spent all week designing spaceships in factorio and testing them
next time i do a playthrough im just going to stick to giant flying bricks.

>>507096135
wait, where else would I make it? did I miss something?

>>507145940
sucks that they decided to include drag and thus make the flying brick the most efficient way to build one

>>507146615
There is a mod to make it based entirely on weight https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Rocs-Improved-Platform-Drag

Wait
1 stone and 2 holomium ore is 3/500 of a rocket.
It makes 100-175 holomium fluid.
In a foundry, that's 7.5 to 21.875 plate, which is 3.75/500 to 10.9375/500 rockets.

I should be shipping the ore itself.

>>507149240
>whereas the aerodynamic thin platforms currently dominant in platform race competitions are nerfed.
nerfing things in singleplayer game

>>507149690
It's not that he intentionally nerfed them, it's just that he changed the factor on which drag is based, so the needle is no longer optimal.
Makes sense, too - there is no atmosphere in space, your acceleration should be decided by the mass, not by the shape.

>>507149279
Technically true, but you get 2 out of 3 rocket mats for free straight from recycling garbage (and at a surplus compared to your holmium ore) and can basically pump the third one from the ocean in unlimited amount.
Trying to optimize Fulgora rocket load and shipping out basic resources instead of the finished product seems like a pain.

>>507150086
>Makes sense, too - there is no atmosphere in space, your acceleration should be decided by the mass, not by the shape.
Why would your acceleration be decided by mass in space.

>>507150282
When I started at each planet, I tried to make it self-sufficient and start with nothing or near nothing.

I also didn't want to waste any part of the ore patch, as that decreases the total amount you can get out of the patch and/or causes the buffer chests to fill up.

As such, the belt has sufficient drain at the first station to use almost all batteries and all holomium for pink science. It also uses all the wire for green chips, with some extra copper from down-crafting.

The second section uses all stone and concrete to make purple science.

The third uses all iron on engines, intending to turn the engines into blue and yellow science. This also means making more batteries from lds and green/red circuits from blue.

And with that, fulgora has almost no overflow, and the overflow it does have is a trickle of rocket material and science..
Only ice and solid fuel is outright voided, and no ice has actually been voided yet.

>>507151447
Because inertia is impacted by the mass of an object

>>507151447
Because newtons second law says that a = F/m

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Modular enrichment design. Is there a simpler way to balance the belt within that space?

>>507141676
The fog of war doesn't show their base until you actually close enough to see it or have a radar close enough

>>507151923
and what is "a" in this case? go on
>>507151880
good thing we aren't dealing with inertia then.

>>507152106
acceleration

>>507152106
An object with infinitesimal inertia has infinite acceleration under any non-zero force.

>>507152106
>and what is "a" in this case?
Did you not go to school?

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>>507152106
ohnonono....

>>507151923
Based a = F/m expresser. This form makes a lot more sense than the typical F = ma.

>>507152106
retardbro...

>>507152338
>>507152373
>>507152417
>>507152518
>>507152940

I was actually trying to pull a fast one on you by pointing out that acceleration is not top speed. And thus the top speed of a ship being decided by it's acceleration is unrealistic.
But then I noticed that the doofus I was talking to already started the conversation by saying "acceleration dictated by mass".
So my gotcha moment evaporated faster than bacteria on gleba.

Top speed should be unlimted was the point I was going to make, and having it decided by mass is as realistic as drag, in space.

>>507095891
what is she gonna do to me with that fish

>>507152968
You are a double retard because in space top speed is limited by acceleration (and fuel) which is limited by mass, not by shape.

>>507154078
>You are a double retard because in space top speed is limited by acceleration
Are we speaking practically or theoretically?
Because in space, you could have an object slow accelerate and reach massive top speeds.
A thing with a higher acceleration than it, would simply reach the same speed faster, but neither would be limited in their top speed.
>not by shape.
....did you even read my post? I said both are as unrealistic as the other.

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>one rocket can hold 10 Asteroid Collectors
>10 Asteroid Collectors contain 50 processing units, 80 electric engine units, and 200 LDSs
>one rocket can hold 200 LSDs, and the rest can screw itself
Earendel, you incompetent fuck, how on God's green Earth did you ever manage to get a job at Wube?

>>507154439
>A thing with a higher acceleration than it, would simply reach the same speed faster
You can keep accelerating forever. A thing with higher acceleration will end up going faster at infinite distance and at short distance it's extremely important because you also need to slow down.

>I said both are as unrealistic as the other.
Yes, which is why I called you a retard, did you miss that retard?

>>507157494
can we just admit that nothing is "realistic" and it's all videogame bullshit that the devs threw together?
>>507157859
>You can keep accelerating forever
yes
>A thing with higher acceleration will end up going faster at infinite distance
If you want to be mentally insane, yes we can talk about inifite distances.
But I rather just point out that "A thing with a higher acceleration than it, would simply reach the same speed faster"
> it's extremely important because you also need to slow down.
game doesn't have slow down physics either. You don't see faggots crying about fixing that, or manually having to control the engines to slow down or end up either crashing into the planet or flying off into space missing their target.

How about plotting a path from one stellar body to the next, accounting for rotation and gravity wells?

>Yes, which is why I called you a retard, did you miss that retard?
Top speed being dictated by acceleration is as realistic as top speed being dictated by drag. In space of course.

Am I the only one playing ksp

>>507158160
>But I rather just point out that "A thing with a higher acceleration than it, would simply reach the same speed faster"
A thing that's accelerating slower will never reach the same speed as something that's accelerating faster.

>game doesn't have slow down physics either.
Doesn't matter, i'm talking about real life as were you just a moment ago. But if you want to talk about the game, then again even without having to slow down high acceleration leads to higher speed and acceleration is dependent on mass. You accelerate all the way to your destination, the craft with higher acceleration will reach it faster weather you want to account for slowing down or not, weather you account for gravity or not, weather you account for plotting a course or not, because a thing that's accelerating faster moves faster.

>How about plotting a path from one stellar body to the next, accounting for rotation and gravity wells?
This is done by the game when you click a destination

>Top speed being dictated by acceleration is as realistic as top speed being dictated by drag. In space of course.
Again just wrong.

>>507157494
An issue.
An object that takes 4 blocks of wood to create does not nessisarraly weigh as much as 4 blocks of wood. so, it is realistic.

further, this encourages you to ship of the crafted item instead of the ingredients where you can, which is good because it means there's a reason not to just craft everything in space while mostly ignoring the planets for anything other than automated rocket-launching supplies. It's good balance.

It would be an issue if you could recycle an object in order to smuggle more of its base ingredients than you could get from a regular launch, but that doesn't seem to be the case, either.

So what's your issue?

>>507100492
Memory safety always makes sense in the event of network-connected software that allows for external inputs.
Look up the concept of 'remote code execution' and read about incidents like the netcode for the Dark Souls games being an insecure pile of awful that trivially allowed remote code execution of arbitary code of the attacker's choice.

>>507158160
>can we just admit that nothing is "realistic" and it's all videogame bullshit that the devs threw together?
No.
>one rocket can hold 50 Solar Panels
>50 Solar Panels contain 250 copper plates, 250 steel plates, and 750 green circuits
>one rocket can hold 250 copper plates, 250 steel plates, and 250 green circuits; the 500 other green circuits require fairy dust

>>507158748
This is the dumbest thing to be upset about

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>nigger fails at literal elementary school tier physics
>doubles down
>triples down

>>507158670
>which is good
That's where you're dead wrong.

I don't care about orbital mechanics in Factorio. I care about building platform being fun. And in my opinion minimizing footprint (and thus weight) while making weirdly shaped platform is more fun than using the same arbitrary long 10 tiles wide rectangle because it's the only way to go fast.

>>507158885
It's not, but to understand the logic you would've had to not get your teeth beaten into your brain stem in elementary school.

I'm more concerned with items gaining mass from thin air, like inserters.

>>507117223
>No, uranium doesn't work like that. It produces 1 thing.
Uranium *ore* though - *does* also work like that. It produces predominantly U-238 with a very small chance of U-235; which are independent rolls as well. And if you hit a prod cycle it re-runs those rolls independently as well.

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>>507158678
If I have the choice between the language inserting useless allocations and superfluous data copies all over the place, and my code being """""unsafe""""", then I'll just let it be """""unsafe""""".

>>507159258
He literally correct himself a few posts later.

>>507157859
>A thing with higher acceleration will end up going faster at infinite distance
NTA - but no; they'll both end up going incomparably infinitely fast at infinite distance.
That's how infinity works.

>>507159681
Um achually they both will be infinitely close the speed of light.

>>507158678
>code something extremely poorly
>it's dangerous
this would have happened with any language, if someone is dumb enough to allow for that to happen in c, they would use one of the numerous work around to do unsafe memory work in a different language not realizing that the safety rail is there for a reason.
programming is inherently unsafe to some extent and no amount of safety put in place will stop idiots from cutting themselves.

>>507159382
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

Network code that has to sanitize external input lives off the critical performance path.
Build that in a memory-safe language; add C/C++ bindings; and build the 'hot path' in C/C++ to meet performance guarantees.

>>507158631
>A thing that's accelerating slower will never reach the same speed as something that's accelerating faster.
They're both a kilogram.

>Doesn't matter, i'm talking about real life as were you just a moment ago.
But in relation to the game.
>You accelerate all the way to your destination, the craft with higher acceleration will reach it faster weather you want to account for slowing down or not
Obviously.
But the top speed of either craft is not limited by acceleration.
By top speed we mean: "how fast something is going" not how fast you can get can get to a destination.
>because a thing that's accelerating faster moves faster.
the thing accelerating faster, accelerates faster.
It doesn't move faster.
Reaching a certain speed faster does not make the reached speed faster.
They're both a kilogram.
>This is done by the game when you click a destination
completely automatically with zero player input.
>Again just wrong.
a craft that accelerated quickly to 1000meters per second or a craft that accelerate slowly to 1000meters per second. Which one is going faster while traveling at 1000m per second.
They're both a kilogram.

>>507158748
again it's a videogame and the devs have arbitraily chosen how much of a given thing you can take into space

>>507159963
I was considering the thing as a pure mathematical concept.
But yes -- you're correct. If we consider actual physics.

Though it bears mentioning that 'nothing can travel faster than light' is by itself also merely an axiom: something we *assume* is true, and use to ground other theories. If FTL travel ever proves possible it means the entire model we have of physics goes out the window with it.

>>507158678
>it's safe and effective trust the experts
No. There is no memory safety, it doesn't exist.
>but muh vidya exploit
Why are you running consumer garbage programs at a privilege level at which they can do damage to you? What if some fucking intern adds code that deletes your system32 because he thought that would be funny? Will your memory safety save you from that?

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>>507160251
There is no fallacy; I have shown proof that, if the language that is most often advertised by the mentally ill dumbasses who're screeching about muh memory safety is given a choice between performance or muh memory safety, they will choose muh memory safety, even if it doesn't make any sense.
Also C and C++ are *not* the same.

>>507157494
but in exchange, you now need a dedicated processing hub on your platform while it builds itself.
in exchange, you could have simply put down another couple rocket silos and then created the ship without having to rebuild anything later on when the processing is done.
rockets are pretty cheap later on when you start caring about building bigger stations anyway.

>>507160192
>no amount of safety put in place will stop idiots from cutting themselves
Competent memory-safe languages require dedicated keywords to enter unsafe mode, which static code analysis tools can pick up on and issue warnings for. Build servers can be configured to treat warnings as errors and gate release on them.

There you go. Stopped idiots from cutting themselves.
Well-- rather; didn't actually stop them from cutting themselves, but *DID* stop them from bleeding all over the place. They can happily go and bleed themselves out behind their own workstation, for all I care.

>>507158678
Japanese developpers are infamous for making extremely bad code and lacking any common since in term of safety. Recently a japanese bank was exposed for literally not checking session tokens and storing password in plain text on the client space page's body. So if you had someone's account address, you not only had access to their client space but their password too. Dark souls in particular has extremely poor coding all around. Even mathematically. The formulas are full of parts that cancel each other out.

>>507159084
you have serious autism if something that irrelevant makes you seethe to the point where you spout unhinged shit like that.
probably best that you keep yourself locked away in your room and get mad at video games.

>>507159963
Why is this place full of bad corrections.
Wait, I know why.

Anyway, "fast" is not a speed. If you go 2mph instead of 1mph "faster" you haven't gained twice the "fast." You've gained twice the "speed", relatively and within earthly conditions. A man who runs 24mph is EXTREMELY fast, but a horse who. runs 25mph is just pretty fast. A bullet that moves at 25mph is slow. As such, the word only has any meaning at all in it's context, which requires an intentional understanding of the speaker.

An object which is going faster than it is possible to go, which has continued to have an infinite amount of kinetic energy to it, and which has gotten "faster" for an infinite amount of time and distance, may be considered infinitely fast without exceeding 6.706e+8, as the framework of speeds by which fast is being defined may be the spread of achievable speeds in a vacuum, which it is in this case..

In cases like these, refusing to humor the artifice of language just makes you wrong.

>>507160848
Stop acting like your average dumb fuck listens to warnings.

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how do i upcycle greens?
the 1-3 ratio with the randomness of the recycling is driving me nuts, at the moment im separating the wires and completely shred them to remake with quality modules later down the line but its still unbalanced as fuck

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>>507160830
>you now need a dedicated processing hub
I can set these up with a couple inserters and assemblers no problem.

>>507161003
I accept all your concessions in the knowledge that my code will always be faster than yours, and you will always be second class.

>>507160595
>Why are you running consumer garbage programs at a privilege level at which they can do damage to you?

This comment is ironic.
You would suggest running that code with lesser privilege from a sandbox with memory isolation?
How do you guarantee the sandbox is safe and one can't escape it to tamper with memory outside of it?

The sandbox itself would have to be written in such a way that all its memory accesses are properly checked and gated and ...
oh look; FUCKING MEMORY SAFETY.

Foundries make me so hard.

>>507161338
Most vm are written in C and they have memory safety in place, how curious, does that mean C is memory safe!?

>>507161102
I did a bunch of math
made a spreadsheet

Given that you have legendary modules, for all the cases I checked, it was better to use prod3s to step-up and use quality 3s in the recycler to step back down, if you wanted to maximize the amount of legendries while totally removing everything else produced. .

>>507159963
>>507161025
ok but which one would see light move the slowest?

>>507160891
>Japanese developpers are infamous for making extremely bad code and lacking any common since in term of safety.
True. It's an endemic problem that's seated in how their culture approaches office hierarchy.
The senior engineer is always right, and what they say goes. As a young upstart, any attempt to challenge decisions and propose improvements is taken as deeply offensive and is tantamount to career suicide. Said senior engineer is also senior not because they're actually good at their job; but because they stuck with it for 20+ years and basically just 'earned' the title that way. So de-facto; you get stuck with 20~30 year old software development practices propagated as cargo cult. And this is why many Japanese games to this day continue to fall into traps such as tying frame-rate to gamestate-rate.

That said-- it's still better than the state of most western studios at the moment.
Where the Japanese studios are giving you software built against 20 year old proven practices; the incompetent diversity-hires calling the shots at most western studios are giving you software built against *no* practices.

>>507161068
>Stop acting like your average dumb fuck listens to warnings.
'warnings-as-errors' means those warnings actually become build-halting errors.
They don't get a choice. Either they're fixing their shit; or they're not finishing their work and committing it back to mainline branches.

>>507161482
No- it means the others of those sandboxes take a lot of effort to review and vet their code to manually ensure they did everything possible correctly.
And even then, they occasionally miss things, which end up becoming CVEs.

>>507161127
and yet, I can also produce them on the planet where I have unlimited space, shoot them up there via rocket and not even realize that I wasted materials because it's a drop in the ocean compared to my factory's throughput.

>>507162230
Don't underestimate how determinate retards are. They always find a way to fuck with what they shouldn't and get away with it.

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>>507162690
>I can also produce them on the planet where I have unlimited space
And pay a 60% premium due to steel that is readily available early on.

>>507162369
>No- it means the others of those sandboxes
*authors

>>507161482
Also; there's been some weird developments recently where rather than running C or C++ code in sandboxes, it's instead cross-compiled through WASM. So: C/C++ -> WASM -> C++. The end-result can run in-process, removing expensive inter-process marshalling and is inherently memory safe thanks to the WASM transformation (which forces everything into a separate memory space and the WASM runtime performs bounds-checking so nothing can escape from it).

Firefox uses this trick for their font manipulation library, which has to expose things to the user-mode sandbox because of JS/DOM APIs that need to be able to query font information. The WASM cross-compile step was literally more light-weight than using a 'proper' sandbox.

>>507162790
>And pay a 60% premium
Yes, like I said - not even noticeable compared to my factories throughput.

>>507161947
After how much time?

>>507158678
>memory safety
>in an application
no, you're retarded. Memory safety belongs in the kernel. If an application starts reaching out of bounds, the kernel tells it to get fucked. Apps that demand overreach in their permission levels have always been the problem.

>>507161102
You use intermediate chest buffers.
The inequality / drift will still grow over time, but if you math it out you'll find you'll need literally billions of recipe iterations before the difference will overflow a single chest.

>>507162230
C# is considered memory safe and yet somehow rust the video game got several remote code execution exploits due to memory safety issues. Minecraft is made in java, players found a way to overflow chunks and exploit this to do remote code execution. Memory safety features don't protect you as much as you think. Even Rust the language had remote code execution exploits for years despite "robust" memory safety.

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>>507163087
>60% is not noticable
You should've told us you're used to eating humble pie.

>>507163567
bro, you want us to be amazed by you doing simple addition to figure out that you can save rocket parts by shooting up intermediate products for space foundation.
meanwhile, everyone else just stamped down another 4-5 processing hubs and stops caring about it.
come back when you found a way to save 60% on science

>>507163197
>no, you're retarded.
Ironic.

> Memory safety belongs in the kernel. If an application starts reaching out of bounds, the kernel tells it to get fucked.
Memory safety belongs everywhere privilege boundaries can be crossed.
In the kernel when managing memory available to user-mode processes so they cannot cross-contaminate one another; and also within a single process so that one functionality in said process -- which might receive non-trusted external input such as network traffic -- cannot be subverted to perform things within the process's privileges that it shouldn't be doing.

A user mode process receiving network traffic and being subverted to allow remote code execution within said process, still has access to anything this process can touch. In most systems that means it still has access to sensitive user data, since desktop OSes aren't running everything fully sandboxed by default and most users won't take the steps to set this up manually.

>>507163815
So that's strawman ("you want us to be amazed"), goalpost moving ("come back when <bla>"), appeal to authority ("everyone else does it, so it must be correct") ... yeah, I guess I'll simply discard your ego defense ramblings for what they are.

>>507161361
I just wish the advanced asteroid processing wasn't locked behind gleba, so I could make use of them on other planets earlier without needing to constantly ship around calcite.

>>507164081
No you're still retarded. Games are already arbitrary code, designed by monkeys, full of shit and jank and bullshit. This is the standard for the market. What are they going to do, run even arbitrarier? Stop giving surface level applications the root access they should never ever ever ever have, dumbass.

>>507164081
>Memory safety belongs everywhere privilege boundaries can be crossed.
Luckily for all of us kernels already copy data from userspace to kernelspace before doing validation checks, so there's no need for it anymore.

>>507119204
>crushing asteroids down into entirely different elements
holy based

>>507164091
That's not a strawman
You were clearly whoring for approval, thinking we'd all be amazed by how you were capable of the elementary school level math that let you figure out that it isn't 1:1 for intermediate vs advanced products.
Everyone knows, no one gives a shit. The game is about automating everything to a degree where you no longer have to care about such things. Do you also hand-feed every fucking assembly machine early game to save on having to craft belts?
And you keep reposting it in the hopes that this time someone will finally acknowledge your genius.
Sad sack of shit, kek

>>507164561
we out here conducting alchemy

507164575
Just know I read the first line of your post and nothing else, just to amplify the feeling of wasting your time and effort.

>>507161947
>ok but which one would see light move the slowest?
Neither. The speed of light is fixed. It doesn't matter how fast you move, the speed of light always appears the exact same to you.
That's what the theory of relativity is all about.

>>507163510
Something not always working != something always not working

The C# language is not entirely memory-safe because it still allows unsafe access via the 'unsafe' keyword. Same with the Rust language.
Idiots gonna idiot, despite the best of warnings to be extremely careful when using those constructs.
(Which is why competent engineering teams disallow them.)

Both also have runtimes, which can still have flaws. Same with Java and the JVM - which was iirc the cause of the Minecraft thing.
There's not much you can do against that kind of thing.

In the end - if Minecraft were written in C++ and would have had just as many eyes on it as with the Java version, there probably would've been a hell of a lot more problems to be found wrt out-of-bounds reads and writes; use-after-free problems; etc. though. You can be pretty sure of that.

>>507164149
Just to gleba before vulcanus, easy.

>>507164385
>Games are already arbitrary code,
Written without the intent of performing explicitly malicious actions, yes.

>>507164752
>>507164575

>>507164081
>so that one functionality in said process -- which might receive non-trusted external input such as network traffic -- cannot be subverted to perform things within the process's privileges that it shouldn't be doing.
malware reading the contents of your drive isn't a memory safety issue, and neither is the possibility for arbitrary code execution within programs you run (as far as the user knows they are already arbitrary code unless you wrote and compiled them yourself) and neither rust nor any other language can protect against either of those.

the 'memory safety' that language design can address is access violations and memory leaks (though i think you can still kind of make these in rust if you try, it's just harder to get them by accident)

507165218

>>507161338
>You would suggest running that code with lesser privilege from a sandbox with memory isolation?
Well I'd call it a functioning Operating system, but you can use whatever other words you want to describe it.

>>507164892
That's what insane people do.

>>507164849
A minecraft written in C might go on to have an amazing engine, or it stays bug ridden forever.
A minecraft written in java will never have an amazing engine, and will still be bug ridden.

>>507166263
it's what I did no my second play through. the rewards from vulcanus feel very incomplete without local access to calcite imo

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Can we go back to talking about cum?

>>507165134
doesn't matter! Programs will perform malicious actions simply through mistakes in programming. It. Is. Inevitable.
Oops, a bug inflated your save files 500x. does this mean your computer breaks? yes! Should it break? No! The app demanded something insane and the correct response is to check the permissions and realize the app never deserved 100GB of save file space.

>>507101470
>space age
fucking what

>>507166263
Honestly I don't think going to vulcanus first would have helped me at all. Cliffs are sparse enough to not be an issue. Green belts would still choke with jelly and mash, but I wouldn't switch to direct insertion early on, which saved me a lot of trouble in retrospective. Artillery won't be needed until I start scaling up. I suppose I could've build a proper mall if I had more metal to spare, but that's about it.
>>507167423
Just hide the entire reply chain. Optimization schizo is clearly a tourist who only shows up to shitpost.

>>507160323
>But the top speed of either craft is not limited by acceleration.
It is when traveling a finite distance
>By top speed we mean: "how fast something is going"
A thing that is accelerating faster ends up going faster. This is literally 3rd grade physics.

>the thing accelerating faster, accelerates faster.
>It doesn't move faster.
??? Do you just not know what acceleration is?

>Reaching a certain speed faster does not make the reached speed faster.
A thing that is accelerating faster keeps being faster, forever.

>completely automatically with zero player input.
??? It's a video game.

>a craft that accelerated quickly to 1000meters per second or a craft that accelerate slowly to 1000meters per second. Which one is going faster while traveling at 1000m per second.
The craft that is accelerating faster because by the time the slower one is going 1000 m/s the faster one is at 2000 m/s, because it's accelerating faster.

>>507103332
>Jokes aside, languages need to be memory safe these days because developers are getting more incompetent and can't be trusted to write memory safe programs.
I think it's more because programs are getting extremely complex and people are getting tired of the endless carousel of trivial memory issues in all software everywhere always.

The original UNIX was built by three guys in a research lab - including all user-space utilities that came with it. It was used by a few dozen guys in a research lab. It worked well enough for that. Nowadays every OS is built by hundreds of people after many years of work writing tens of millions of lines of code. It's just not comparable work.
Back in the day ed was written by a single guy as a side-project to writing his OS. Nowadays most editors run an entire web browser internally.

>>507111153
>steam newfag
??
I have never purchased satisfactory because they went epic-exclusive and I instantly lost interest in their game forever. What does being a newfag have to do with it

>>507160323
A train that takes 10 seconds to reach top speed, is spending 5 seconds at half speed.
A train that takes 2 seconds to reach top speed, is spending 1 second at half speed.
Faster acceleration results in faster travel. Get rucked.

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>Thread oddly active
>It's retard shit

>>507167791
factorio general

>>507165250
The memory safety that language design can address also, through disallowing raw memory access, encompasses out of bounds reads; out of bounds writes; use-after-free; and several other problems that serve as gadgets that can be used to achieve a remote code execution exploit.

>>507167692
You are a moron.
Here, let me emphasize it for you:

>>507165134
> The INTENT of performing explicitly malicious actions

Bugs are not intent. They are unfortunate, and they can still cause problems.
But they rely on human failure, rather than outright intent to do harm.

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>>507170195
>assigning intent to a machine
don't go full retard. Machines do exactly what they are told to do. The application can not go out of bounds if you disable its memory access.

>>507169483
proliferator discussion thoughever

>>507168261
>The original UNIX was built by three guys in a research lab - including all user-space utilities that came with it. It was used by a few dozen guys in a research lab. It worked well enough for that.

And then and there it already sucked.
Back in the day I worked on some patches for the filesystem integrity checking utilities used with Minix; a *nix flavor specifically meant for limited hardware. Even the integrity checkers were fucking about with pointer arithmetic and getting it wrong. If you would run them on a 64-bit system, you would actually fuck over the integrity of your file system when you attempted to 'repair' it. If you would run them on a large enough volume, you would get problems with wrap-around and overflow, and you would actually fuck over the integrity of your file system. Etc. etc. etc.

Pointer arithmetic is bad.
Because EVERYONE gets it wrong.
PERIOD.

>>507163197
The problem with this is that the "bounds" are ill-defined from the kernel's point of view. Unless you adopt a mobile-like "everything is behind three layers of sandboxing" model, which certainly would be an improvement security-wise but so far nobody's managed to do it in a way that doesn't completely fuck the user experience.

And even if you do that, sometimes a "bound" an application might not want to "reach" would be just crashing. The kernel can't do anything to stop an application from crashing.

>>507170732
>ill-defined
bro there are entire libraries and colleges and online courses full of textbooks that define the boundaries between application, operating system, and hardware, in exhausting detail.

>>507167223
>the rewards from vulcanus feel very incomplete without local access to calcite imo
>oh no I have to ship in free calcite from the planet that has infinite resources to give free rockets
are you one of those guys that doesn't use green belts because "they only stack to 50 on the rocket :("

>>507168070
>A thing that is accelerating faster ends up going faster. This is literally 3rd grade physics.
a things that accelerates up to 1000ms a second is going as fast as another thing that accelerates up to 1000ms regardless of how long it took them to get up to that speed.
Anon you are quite literally right now going: But steel is heavier than feathers.
And I'm telling you. I know, but they're both a kilogram.
>??? Do you just not know what acceleration is?
I do.
>A thing that is accelerating faster keeps being faster, forever.
How fast something accelerates does not dictate it's top end speed. Depending in environment of course.
>??? It's a video game.
yes, I know. I already said that none of this shit is realistic and it's all just arbitrary dev decisions, so why even pretend it's realistic
>The craft that is accelerating faster because by the time the slower one is going 1000 m/s the faster one is at 2000 m/s, because it's accelerating faster.
not nessesarily.

>>507168775
>>507168775
>A train that takes 10 seconds to reach top speed, is spending 5 seconds at half speed.
>A train that takes 2 seconds to reach top speed, is spending 1 second at half speed.
true.
>Faster acceleration results in faster travel. Get rucked.
If you count faster as in time spent going from point a to point b.
If you count faster as in top speed, then no.

What the game does is prevent top speed based on width and mass of the object.
And the mod supposedly fixes it by having it be only mass. Because it's more "realistic".
When neither is realistic.

>>507170325
>Machines do exactly what they are told to do.
Which can be either a mistake in instructions on part of the original developers of the sofware.
Or a 100% conscious decision on the part of a threat actor to push in specially crafted instructions with the express intent of doing harm.

> The application can not go out of bounds if you disable its memory access.
Exactly. Which is why memory safe languages are a good thing when working with external input.
Because it prevents the use of direct memory access; enforces bounds-checks; etc. within the same process, so that any malicious instructions cannot abuse buffer overflows; or use-after-free to achieve remote code execution. And does so at the language level, without needing conscious effort on the part of the developers writing the software in question. Rather the opposite: it requires conscious effort on their part to *undo* those protections.

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Any spacechem oldies on? I need a hint on what to do for Ω-Pseudoethyne.

My strategy has been to have the r1 blue waldo grab exactly 14 hydrogen molecules, send them to r2, then have the red waldo disasemble then send 3 inputs worth of carbomega to r2. In r2, the blue waldo takes the hydrogen and feeds it into the feedback loop, the red waldo assembles the pseudethyne. Getting the blue waldos to manage the hydrogen is easy, but I simply do not have enough space to have the red waldos alone doing all the disassembly/reassembly.

Please help I am being filtered and there is still one more whole planet to unlock.

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The fuck is going on in this thread

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>>507100882
>who knew 25% could cut resource costs 2/3.
It's surprising to see it in action, but it's rather elementary in retrospect.

>>507171229
Irrelevant. Programming intent is an NP+ problem, computers have no possible way of understanding it so it doesn't matter. If a program is malicious or not malicious, the computer will run the code without missing a beat. Computer security is not designed around the "honor" system. Surface apps are a wild frontier and they always will be. Sandbox them in as god intended.

Best way to heat Aquilo outposts? Heat can't travel infinitely along heat pipes so it can't just be one long pipe to the outpost right?

>>507170951
Please define the boundaries between the parts of my custom application that handles network traffic of unknown and untrusted origins, the parts that ingest the data from that traffic, and the parts that manipulate data with full access to anything the local user has access to. WITHOUT me sharing source code.

Or to put that in another way: those models defined in text books FALL SHORT. They only cover the theoretical broad cases based on category. They do not treat individual functional use-cases. Because they CAN'T.

Basically, to take your position to its logical extremum: you are proposing that because textbooks say there should broadly speaking only be boundaries between application and OS, browsers shouldn't have sandbox environments within. The content you're downloading to display a webpage; the JavaScript being used to enrich that page with interactive behaviors; all of it should just immediately have the same access level to your hard drive as the part of the browser applications that implements saving a downloading an image, video or other file to local disk.


...

Thank fuck Factorio uses scripted mods based on Lua, rather than compiled DLLs like fucking Cities Skylines does.

>>507171027
>a things that accelerates up to 1000ms a second is going as fast as another thing that accelerates up to 1000ms regardless of how long it took them to get up to that speed.
>up to
There's nothing stopping the higher acceleration craft from going faster in the same time it takes the slower one to get to 1000ms, in fact it's inevitable.

>I do.
You clearly do not.

>How fast something accelerates does not dictate it's top end speed
It does

>yes, I know. I already said that none of this shit is realistic and it's all just arbitrary dev decisions, so why even pretend it's realistic
Because in real life things with lower mass accelerate faster and go faster as a result. Second this is your own argument, the fact that a computer can perform orbital calculations in a fraction of a second when you press a button could very well be implemented. The fact that they don't do that is irrelevant. You are saying that just because they chose to skip including some irrelevant orbital calculations, they should abandon basic physics. You are insane.

>If you count faster as in top speed
A faster train can keep accelerating the entire time the slower one is accelerating and it will be going faster at any point in time.

>When neither is realistic.
It's perfectly realistic for acceleration to depend only on mass and force from thrusters, a = F/m, no shape included in that calculation

>not nessesarily.
Why wouldn't it? Literally nothing stopping it.

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>>507171552
A recursive filter on two posts is enough to make all of it go away.

>>507171829
sounds like a skill issue bro.
Don't put your stupid in my mouth, that's a (you) problem. there are plenty of text books that cover online and browser security. If your web browser can't survive arbitrary code than it's shit, plain and simple.

>>507171608
Local heating tower, send fuel from main base.

>>507171604
I actually agree with that part, but it's not going to happen any time soon.
It will require enormous buy-in across the board.

What you are failing to see is that the same principle transitively applies *within* the application as well.
And that's the step where use of memory-safe languages can help, because they ax a large amount of risk with particular categories of programming error that lead to exploitable remote code execution vulnerabilities.

Now admittedly, that requires buy in on the developer side. But that's a much, MUCH smaller group to target a 'push' at than every software consumer across the globe. And there's no way a business like Microsoft would break backwards compatibility by suddenly forcing everything to be 100% sandboxed. (Moreover; legislators would probably jump them overnight, if they suddenly *would*. :: something, something - EU requiring them to offer kernel access to third parties :: )

So like always, it's something of a compromise.
Not to solve the problem completely. But to make it less of a problem.

Which doubles back to:
>>507164849
> Something not always working != something always not working
If I'm going to have to run games without a sandbox by default -- and really; even if I do know better than the average consumer, still like most consumers I can't be arsed from a convenience point-of-view to set-up sandboxes for everything manually -- then I'd rather the security-critical parts of them are built with a memory-safe language.

And I'd rather mods use scripted language, rather than compiled.
E.g. rather Lua or JS than the insanity of Cities Skylines that apparently uses compiled DLLs, as per >>507171829

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>>507171829
>>507172634
The duality of man
One of you wants systemic safety, a way for anyone to write code that won't blow up someones computer, artificial limitations to the ability of people to write code
The other one understands that it's all a spook, and you should only trust code written by competent people, and these people shouldn't be hindered by retards standing in the way
Dare I say, one of you is cringe and bluepilled, and one is based and redpilled

>>507095891
Why do night vision goggles still take up 2x2?

>>507171575
You should do the math on mining resource drain in Factorio 2.0
You'd be very pleased.

A single tile of ore can be covered by up to 4 miners. The odds that a single cycle of all 4 *not* consume 1 ore at all, i.e. that you get 4 cycles for free, with legendary 8% drain is 0.92^4 ~= 70%

Effectively that's AT LEAST a x1.7 bonus multiplicatively applied to your actual productivity bonus wrt yield from a patch, if you maximize miner coverage.

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How to get into Stormworks if I know literally nothing about programming?

>>507173713
You are raping probability when you try to use it like this.

>>507173874
It's not a programming game so you would presumably just boot it up and start playing, at worst you need to download a pid

>>507171934
>There's nothing stopping the higher acceleration craft from going faster in the same time it takes the slower one to get to 1000ms, in fact it's inevitable.
Irrevant, as both can reach 1000ms. At which point both are traveling as fast as the other.
They're both a kilogram.
>You clearly do not.
nuhuh, uhuh, nuhuh, uuuuuhuuuuhhhh
>It does
in your opinion
>Because in real life things with lower mass accelerate faster and go faster as a result.
I'm confident you are intelligent enough to think of a couple of examples where something accelerates slow but goes faster than something that accelerates faster initially by has shit top end speed.
> You are saying that just because they chose to skip including some irrelevant orbital calculations, they should abandon basic physics. You are insane.
I'm saying you people are huffing your own farts while crying about muh realism, when implementing something else that isn't realistic, also while ignoring other unrealistic things.
Thus, don't make the argument "it's more realistic". Instead say it like it is. You like this way more and that's it.
>A faster train can keep accelerating the entire time the slower one is accelerating and it will be going faster at any point in time.
In the made up scenario in your head, sure. But now think of cases, in real life, where that isn't the case, not specifically limited to trains.
>It's perfectly realistic for acceleration to depend only on mass and force from thrusters, a = F/m,
Acceleration yes. But we are talking about top speed which shouldn't be limited by mass nor the shape.

>>507172792
All applications are arbitrary code! If your app is crashing exclusively because it got placed in a sandbox, then it is no longer an app. It is a kernel driver. It is demanding kernel privileges to function and those privileges do not exist in a sandbox. Stupid games warrant stupid prizes.

>>507173010
No- what it boils down to is that both want the same thing:
software to not be fucked up.

Where it differs is the approach on how to get there:
One argues it should be the responsibility of the lay consumer to be omniscient and should just instinctively know what crap to side-step, until we hit a point where commercially speaking - putting out crap becomes unviable and it dies out.
The other argues that developers should not produce crap and should, where necessary, employ tools to enforce the lesser code-monkeys amidst their ranks *can't* produce (as much) crap.

One argues from the delusional perspective that you can wholesale get rid of incompetence in the field by ignoring it long enough. The other argues from the perspective that you have to actively fight incompetence in the field, by all means necessary.

>>507173876
Whatever you end up projecting, you're raping probability any way.
Factorio is built on an imperfect RNG and we're discussing multiple millions of experiment iterations in which the drift and bias would clearly seat themselves. You shouldn't expect to do better than some ballpark coarse estimates.

>>507173874
Step 1: Google what a PID is.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!

>>507173713
dang

>>507174854
What kind of profit?

>>507174461
>fight incompetence by allowing people to be increasingly incompetent while shielding them from the consequences of their actions
The universe will always find a bigger idiot. Stop enabling them.

>>507174079
>Irrevant, as both can reach 1000ms
Relevant because the faster one will be faster
>At which point both are traveling as fast as the other.
The slower one will never reach the speed the faster one is currently going
>I'm confident you are intelligent enough to think of a couple of examples where something accelerates slow but goes faster than something that accelerates faster initially by has shit top end speed.
Why are you putting arbitrary restrictions in place? In the game the crafts refuel from space and have thus infinite range. These are conditions that don't exist in real life but if they did then lower mass objects would accelerate faster with the same engines and achieve higher speeds.
>when implementing something else that isn't realistic, also while ignoring other unrealistic things.
You have not pointed these things out.
>Thus, don't make the argument "it's more realistic".
If you like realism then making something more realistic is good. The fact that realistic acceleration is better than non realistic acceleration doesn't mean that it's in fact worse because not everything is perfectly realistic.
>In the made up scenario in your head, sure.
In a real scenario
>But now think of cases, in real life, where that isn't the case, not specifically limited to trains.
That was the real scenario. You are the one artificially capping the speed the faster craft is allowed to reach because it's antisemitic to be faster than the slower one for no reason
>Acceleration yes. But we are talking about top speed which shouldn't be limited by mass nor the shape.
Top speed is limited by acceleration in any finite route

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Building a new ship for asteroid reprocessing. Didn't do sushi this time, but straight to sorted belt buffers. Actually did not even need circuits at all, though that wasn't intentional.

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I will never forgive them for the death of my boy, but I heard they put stuff in the game

>>507176836
>Relevant because the faster one will be faster
okay smart guy, what's heavier, a kilogram of steel or a kilogram of feathers?

>>507176956
but thats just nilaus' ship

>>507174717
When something is happening many times it's entirely pointless to "simulate" probability like you just did. You just take the number and accept it as face value because that's what it will be after large enough number of attempts. This is called law of large numbers.
If you have 8% consumption on your miners then the amount of ore you get is 1/0.08 or 12.5 times what it says on the tin. The fact that you arrived to just 1.7 multiplier is why you don't do this kind of asinine math, it just introduces additional points of failure to your already mental midget capabilities.

>vulcanus start modded
>nauvis evolution starts from 0:00 even though you aren't there
its about to be some starship troopers shit when i touchdown

>>507177223
You keep saying this for some reason but I have no idea why. A craft that is accelerating twice as fast will be twice as fast at any point in time as the other one. One number is bigger than the other number.

>>507176836
>the faster one is faster except when I say faster in this tone
bro, don't use the same word for two different terms. It's too messy to read.

>>507177490
>You keep saying this for some reason but I have no idea why.
Yes, it's very sad that you don't.
Now answer the question.

>>507177490
>>507176836
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fC2oke5MFg
>b-but it's got faster acceleration so it's faster
>but they're both traveling at 1000m/s, so they're the same
>I....I don't get it

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>>507171416
Here is mine. Looks like I didn't even bother with the loop. Split whatever comes in to separate Ω-C pieces and add enough H to make the product.

Also spoiler there is no another planet

>>507177568
I literally didn't write that so I have no idea what you mean. The one that is faster will be faster which is supposed to mean the same thing because the word used the same. The one that is accelerating faster will be the faster one.

>>507177602
>Now answer the question.
The one that is accelerating faster will be faster at any point in time.

>>507177803
When the slower one gets to 1000 m/s the faster one will be at 2000 m/s
Did you have breakfast today btw?

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Despite its flaws, I do enjoy how pretty chinese great space wall builder can be.
I do wish the sun reactors changed color with their fuel speed:
>72MW red
>144MW yellow
>288MWblue
Same with the cargo ships:
> boxes on top = ship capacity, a new ship model for each tier
It is useful information and it would look good, win win.

>>507177985
>When the slower one gets to 1000 m/s the faster one will be at 2000 m/s
But they are both at 1000m/s, so they are both going equally fast.
>Did you have breakfast today btw?
That isn't even the correct question. It's "how would you feel if you didn't have breakfast today".
Sigh, anon...

>>507178193
>But they are both at 1000m/s
The faster one is at 2000 m/s. 2000 is bigger number than 1000 so they aren't going equally fast.

>>507178147
Did they already implemented orbital structures?
Last time I played was before the combat system addition. I saw them adding it, but then they also said they aren't done yet and want stuff like orbital platforms too, so I am still waiting for them to be done with it before I play another round

>>507178312
>The faster one is at 2000 m/s
No, we established that both are at 1000m/s. Just one accelerated there faster.

>>507178439
>No, we established that both are at 1000m/s
No, you said that they are at 1000 m/s but that's not what happens because one if accelerating faster. The faster one gets to 1000 m/s when the slower one is at 500 m/s, then it keeps going and by the time the slower one is at 1000 m/s the faster one is at 2000 m/s because it's accelerating faster.

>>507178571
>No, you said that they are at 1000 m/s but that's not what happens because one if accelerating faster.
The example given, is that both reach 1000 m/s but one has faster acceleration to that point.

In any case it seems you are looping at this point and not even sticking to the concept given, so I doubt we will make any progress here.

>>507178725
>The example given, is that both reach 1000 m/s but one has faster acceleration to that point.
Yes and then the faster one keeps going so by the time the slower one gets to 1000 m/s the faster one is at 2000 m/s.
I can see that you don't understand how that works and it's ok. It's a hard concept.

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>>507178437
>I asked the players to playtest my game and now I am mad
>how could this be happening to me

>>507178318
no platforms, only comfy space trucking.

>>507178318
No, some of those are probably coming in the next update or the update after that. So far the non sphere space structures are only implemented for the enemy faction which construct space bases and connect their planetary bases to them with orbital bases.

>>507178881
unironically if everything dosh said was true, that LAN event was a QA wet dream.

>>507178881
earendel was a bad influence
great artist, spaghetti programmer, sadist dev

>>507179554
>>507179016
thanks, I'll wait a bit longer then

>>507179579
QRD of what happened at the LAN event

>>507179941
They figured out that in the beta of Spage you could beat the game by making a ship several kilometers long since asteroids only spawn at the fore of the ship and you could reach the end-goal before the asteroids could chip far enough back to actually destroy the ship.

dosh has a point, Promethium science should only be craftable in deep space
that would fix the belt weaving shenanigans
if not in vanilla, at least as a simple mod

>>507180215
>promethium asteroids have 5 minute spoilage
>it is impossible to fly back to planet to process them
heh, problem solved, you're welcome

>>507150086
>>507146615
it has drag so that the optimal design isn't just a needle with a fat ass 50 engines wide

>>507177294
Which ship? What aspect? I don't see it from him but it would not be surprising as there is a limited solution space.

>>507180215
The science probably should be craftable only in deep space but the belt weaving is a symptom of them trying to force it with arbitrary stack sizes instead of actually just saying "you have to do it here". The fact they let you do it anywhere but hate it if you do it anywhere is why they come up with retarde stack sizes which then prompt the players to work around those limits instead.
This
>>507180371
Is what they will do next.

Any sane dev would just make it so you need to do the science on the cracked planet and then strip the retarded stack limits as well as buffing the space storage and all of the belt shenanigans would immediately disappear.

>>507180592
Bitter eggs would spoil before you make it the the core of the shattered butt hole

>>507180592
>arbitrary stack sizes
don't all asteroid chunks have the same stack size?

>>507180592
asteroids don't spoil, dummy.

>>507180449
>it has drag so that the optimal design isn't just a needle with a fat ass 50 engines wide
But that's not actually the optimal design, that's just the fastest design (in the hypotethical alt world without space drag anyways) because that space minimizes the internal space for cargo and structures. Do you make a needle ship that's fast but can't carry much or a brick that's slow but can't carry much? There's interesting decisions there and the resulting ships will be more aesthetic as a bonus. With space drag thebrick™ is always the correct choice because it's the fastest and at the same time carries the most cargo. Literally no reason to use any other design.

>>507180768
Just remove the spoilage in space or extend the timer enough that a reasonable design can make it, the devs can change the timer, god didn't show up and decree that that's the number it has to be. Any number of good ideas there to make the system better.

>>507180786
The stacksize is set to 1 specially so you "can't" go out, farm asteroids and bring them back. As in you can but it's so inefficient that you don't want to do it... but actually if you quad stack belts you can haul enough for it to maybe be worth it. If they gave up on the idea they could then set the stack size to something more reasonable to avoid the belt weaving nonsense.

>>507180932
No idea why you quote me.

>>507181225
>Is what they will do next.

>>507181635
Are you incapable of conceptualizing that I understand that they don't currently spoil when I agree to someone saying that devs will make asteroids spoil in the future?

You ok bud?

>>507181225
>With space drag thebrick™ is always the correct choice because it's the fastest
You still get small speed increases from dropping weight on small ships, and on massive ships weight matters a lot more.

>Just remove the spoilage in space
This would completely undermine the intended challenge of using biter eggs. Did you think this through?

>The stacksize is set to 1 specially so you "can't" go out, farm asteroids and bring them back.
But ALL asteroids have a stack size of 1, so it's not arbitrary. That's my point.
At least, it's not any more arbitrary than any other design choice.

>>507181902
>I agree to someone saying that devs will make asteroids spoil in the future?

asteroids don't spoil, dummy!!!
if you're autistic and cannot understand what I mean then asteroids can't spoil dummy

>>507182010
>You still get small speed increases from dropping weight on small ships
That's just not really true and is irrelevant because the effect is much larger if space drag is removed.
You can't simultaneously say that with drag removed "everyone" will use the needle when it has massive tradeoffs between capacity and speed and then come and claim that some miniscule difference in exchange for massive amount of capacity is currently happening. If you believe that people currently aren't just using the brick and making decisions between speed and capacity now then people certainly won't be just using the needle with drag removed. Literally destroyed your own argument with this one.

>This would completely undermine the intended challenge of using biter eggs.
The fact that you have to transport them is enough of a challenge and they already have bunch of challenges on their own planet. And again you didn't read half of what I said. If you think the spoilage is important then just keep it and extend the timer so it's at appropriate challenge level for you.

>But ALL asteroids have a stack size of 1, so it's not arbitrary.
>That's my point.
Your other 2 points were completely shit and so is this one.


>>507182108
lol I guess.

>>507182108
>asteroids don't spoil
they also don't get exploded by rockets, cut into chunks and ground down to powder

>>507183421
no, no that's pretty much what big rocks meeting explosives do.

>>507182662
>because the effect is much larger if space drag is removed.
Not as much as you think. If you want mass to have more impact you should be asking for them to remove the flat 10,000 tons that's secretly added to every platform. That actually has less physical basis than drag, considering the solar system appears to be one giant dust cloud.
Besides, as far as I can tell, drag is only affecting the top speed, and not the acceleration. Is this correct? If so I'd like to know how you think top speed should be determined. Don't say "it should be infinite."

>when it has massive tradeoffs between capacity and speed
You make it exactly as wide as it needs to be for the intended cargo capacity. Then you add 50 engines to the back, because adding width just for engines has no drawback.

>The fact that you have to transport them is enough of a challenge
Getting them to a rocket is trivial. If they don't spoil in space there is no challenge.
>And again you didn't read half of what I said.
I didn't disagree with the rest of the statement so I didn't reply to it. Are you autistic?

>>507164752
>so mad he misses the reply too
LMAO sure you did bud, i got 5 bucks that says you read it at least 4 times to try to come up with a single retort