https://youtu.be/-13LUfagQhY?si=7IJA2eUmFAesOR7B

Any roguelikes for republican anti-gun-control politicians?

RLG: The only general that can't make it through an 8-hour workday without getting bumped off the board while still under the reply limit

>>538691903
I was gonna change it so that Mystery Dungeon and DF mode was called gay but I forgot the subject line the first time and gave up

Did the last thread die in record time?

>>538695908
DDA with the brawler trait, add the fear of vehicles trait and lactose intolerant to be the leftist version

>>538694991
Not bad. A solid definition IMO.
I think he overplays the thing about not talking about Rogue, roguelikes are a genre that grew up around conventions that were more or less birthed from Rogue, and Rogue fits into his definition neatly, but I guess he has to exaggerate the point a bit for youtube.

>>538704017
Got a very hick-pilled guy living in my house. Guns good, trump good. Has brought at least one piece of political merch into this house in the form of a shirt with some snarky 2 word wordplay declaring his political leanings. Thinks doctors are full of shit.

Point is he's got two main food groups that, if he eats them destroy his body. Says he has to avoid them in his diet. Doesn't.

He just shits and farts himself to death instead. Hasn't been using lactaid despite the fact I mentioned its existence multiple times.

At least, right now, he's bought a carton of oat milk.That's possibly an improvement.
I know it isn't the same thing, but alternative milks aren't bad, on their own, if you don't expect them to be milk.

>>538704478
pretty average trumper, utterly retarded

>>538707698
As I understand, this is just what all lactose intolerant people are like.

At least, with the choosing to suffer part.

>rlg dies
>a politician dies
so what do we learn from this?

>>538710705
Forced randomization of your starting character with very little customization makes for a shitty roguelike.

>>538710705
the sensitive young black men of /rlg/ are deeply affected by the escalating terrorism

>>538710705
Gookposter has been busy

>make a high speech build convincing people that guns are necessary
>gets killed by a gun
I don't think this game is very random

>>538711891
>many negative traits were rolled like "Ugly", "Lactose Intolerant" or "Schizophrenic"
>barely any positive traits, the extra points from picking negatives went to waste
this game does indeed suck

>the oat milk is still unopened
you
you guy you

I wanted to try some of that, frankly. I think it's been a week.

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Thank rlg for doing its part by not playing videogames

>>538712775
Tell Sideways to update Frog and I'll start playing again

>>538712775
Well there was footage of an elderly man being detained, maybe the shooter played Doom as an impressionable young man in the 90s and it just took a while

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roguelikes where you fight ancient martians?

>>538713909
We need more SF roguelikes IMO

>452 errors trying to build the default "Hello world" console project consisting of 5 lines
Roguelikes for this feel?

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Doing pure elements for steam cheevos, saving death and astral for last because they seem the easiest to break
Lightning was about getting a full backpack with shit healing and then trying not to get oneshot from there

>>538713909
>bro look it's a rock
fucking nerd kys

>>538716273
sorry they didn't find tentacled aliens like in your hentais

>>538717921
they didn't find anything and I don't give a fuck
>abloo bloo bloo 4 billion years ago there were maybe some microbacteria in this piece of rock because ummm aaaahhh eeeeh there's a bit of a sediment of another rock ummm and we studieded it with our scientific glasses on for more than 365 consecutive daisies
>this is news btw x3

>>538718437
still no use found for math

>>538715663
Path of Achra
(Cataclysm if you ACTUALLY want to fail compile the literal code, but for gameplay feel it's POA)

>>538694991
The refusal to adopt roguelite as a descriptor has done immeasurable harm to the gaming community

>>538694991
This faggot "simulturn" misunderstanding is still brainless though.

The game simply calculates and enacts the actions of the NPCs so fast that it's essentially simultaneous.
I can't think of a single roguelike where the NPC actions are pre-determined/not affected by gamestate to the extent that they are thus executed simultaneously with your action (once chosen)

If you play chess against a computer and it instantly completes a move as soon as you make a move it's not a "simultaneous turn"
It's still a turn-based action sequence.

>>538715913
It's not much of an achievement if you do it on cycle 5 though.

>>538722085
>The gaem is balanse around Cycle 1 anon
> :^)


Almost all builds are much harder to get off the ground until you're in a high enough cycle to gets heaps of glory in one or two levels, in all seriousness, imo
I do think that a handful of prestiges (and more specifically, most mono-element conducts), including most of the martial+element prestiges are really hard to win with while remaining on theme.

"Remaining on theme" because of course you can always Druid+Starcult and bruteforce nearly any other heap of garbage powers/items on nearly any cycle

Post your wins, if you're so good at roguelikes, anon-kun

>>538724285
When I reset my save file I actually had more trouble than I expected at cycle 17-24. 32 is still the most likely to one shot you, but the mid cycles have their own challenge because you don't have as many levels to work with.

Though if the game was only cycle 1 I think it would be a pretty bad game. That's just the dev excuse telling people not to send him balance complaints.

>>538724993
I think you'd have more difficulty with a lot of things and a lot less options stuck at Cycle 1, for sure.
We wouldn't see a lot of builds, just because they'd be practically impossible to survive long enough to come online (or never come online at all, due to expense) no matter what order of items/enemy spawns you got.

But yeah, sure. I think that's fair. Player power goes up pretty fast until the mid-teens and then tapers off- By then though, you should also be cruising on enough game knowledge that you don't need half the glory you get to begin with (nevermind that a lot of synergies see negligible increases in power by dumping points into the powers anyways)
You can either handle 2,000 speed mobs or not, you can either handle 40k hit teleporting assholes or not and you know how to route and path better, so on.

I dunno. I think Gothi is an easier clear on higher Glory but also...
Like what the FUCK is that build??
Saurian? Zealot Eresh?? With Gothi??? Why? What's the fucking point?? Do you want to stand still and pray or step dance or summon or... What are we doing? Jesus.

>>538691903
I leave for one month and the OP is once again fucked, unbelievable, well atleast the general isn't completely dead like I feared.

>he thinks anyone cares

untold levels of homosexuality

>>538730575
I have never once,
when someone said the op was wrong
had any idea what they thought was wrong, regardless of which thread it was.

It's like you're screaming about the fairies dancing downstairs in the parking lot of your apartment complex.

>>538731073
People use the wrong template and forget to put the video >>538694991

>>538732535
... why would we put your video in the op?

What template?
Where are the fairies?

>>538732535
lmao are you for real?
You think people "forgot" the video?
Rather than that people just... Don't think the video belongs in the OP?

Just some sperg shitting on the Berlin definition 4noraisin.
Doesn't realize that "first-person" and "shooter" are two different descriptors and he might as well made some arbitrary distinction about "tile-based roguelikes" (what the fuck is Deus Ex, if not an immersive sim- FPS isn't as prescriptive a genre description as roguelike is)
NO mention of roguelite/roguelike as a marketing term

And this dumb fucking "simulturn" bullshit.
If I see another one of you retards saying roguelikes are "simulturn" one more time I'm gonna eat the "should I work on my roguelike" anon's liver.

>>538733648
roguelikes are "simulturn"

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roguelike are precisely and only what ~4 mentally ill people on a dead 4chan thread define them to be and if you disagree with me then we'll be 3 mentally ill people I guess

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>>538733750

What the fuck is "Simulturn"? Isn't that a contradiction?

>>538737537
No, it's hypothetically possible.

Consider "simulturn tic-tac-toe"

You start with a grid of 9 spaces. You and your opponent both select a space. If you select separate spaces, you each get those spaces and then check for winning formations. If you and your opponent both select the same space, then you both get that space. Spaces occupied by either player can no longer be selected.

The primary difference is that your choice is not revealed and the effects of your turn are not calculated until your opponent has also taken their turn.

Very very few games function this way. Primarily, rock-paper-scissors functions this way, along with most computerized versions of the game. However, there is only one turn in that particular case.

>>538728784
I knew this one was a real clunker, it's a tab build, the whole point of zealot eresh is to heal my bitch ass when ball lightnings die, and extra prayer recharges to heal off zombies in the first 10 levels. I didn't check the combat log but the inflame on lightning damage torso necklace probably carried it because KOMC died from 2 tabs
A real lightning only build would probably pray to RNGesus for that one glove that heals from bare fist attacks or more likely try to zap everything before they land a single hit

>>538737537
It's a thing that doesn't exist in roguelikes, but there are games that pull it off. Diplomacy is a /tg/ example, everyone writes down their actions for the turn on a piece of paper and then opens them all at the same time, with the resulting movements and attacks all taking place at the same time mechanically.
Roguelikes look like simulturn but there is actually an order of operations under the surface, the results are just calculated and presented the moment you press that number key so it looks simultaneous.

I just realized I maybe don't really like Roguelikes

Roguelikes are "run based" games where the gameplay loop is changed each time thanks to possible upgrades obtained at the end of single runs which can then be used in the next ones

it is a genre that made use of technical limitations back in the days: few levels sometimes procedurally generated that becomes a strength thanks to this loop
they are sometimes characterized by ASCII graphics more or less simple with strong focus on inventory management
the action is turn based and most of the game relies on combat and exploration

now I did not have much experience with these games I pictured them as more arcade y if that makes sense and something that could give me a good dose of fun

honestly it did not happen like that I tried CoQ Stoneshard JHC even CDDA but these games do not click with me
I do understand though why they appeal to other people

>>538740738
>Roguelikes are "run based" games where the gameplay loop is changed each time thanks to possible upgrades obtained at the end of single runs which can then be used in the next ones
... are you sleepy or esl?

There is no upgrade system which persists between runs in a rougelike. Their certainly isn't one in cdda.

Someone confirm that CoQ does not have persistent upgrades.

>>538741043
while I am ESL, I'm not saying that the games I played have those: I was initally listing a series of characteristics I found while looking for roguelike games to play
for example JHC has some sort of meta progression where you unlock harder levels as you progress, but yes those kind of unlockables are usually more present in "rogue-lites"

what I'm trying to say is that is a confusing umbrella term and it took me a while to realize that these games are not for me because the genre definition keeps on changing and I'm trying to make it make sense

>>538739140
Ahhhh, Chamakana/Hera/Skerja, probably.
Tengu (maybe Lochra)/Nartaka. And then Tengri, for maximum WIGGLER mode, I guess.

You just stepdance everything to death.
Seeing any particular item is pretty much a given, if you check every location carefully, though how early it turns up is different.

Like I said though, higher Cycles also spoil you for Glory, idk if these skills get off the ground fast enough in Cycle 5

>>538740738
Roguelites are strongly differentiated from roguelikes by meta-progression: Unlocking items depending on run performance metrics that can then drop in the base game.
Few edge cases exist.

ASCII being a characteristic of roguelikes is a holdover (purely because no concerted effort to contest it has been made, especially with roguelites diluting the community so deeply, imo) from when almost every tileset for a roguelike sucked AND (possibly more importantly) that many roguelikes were designed with play via telnet or similar terminal based applications on some of the earliest networks in mind- And thus setting up to display tiles rather than draw the map with ASCII characters was somewhat impractical.

This is also where the "keyboard based, no mouse controls" thing comes from and is ALSO (imo) no longer a strongly defining characteristic.

If you want something more arcadey- if you're for some reason some newb hanging around in a graveyard oldfag general still -try Dungeons of Dredmor (piracy is illegal anon)(the company went out of business years ago) or Tome4 (the supporter class/expansions are kind of mid desu, but the otherwise full featured game is free)

Or just regular Jupiter Hell. Don't fuckin start out with JHC, JHC was made to appease literal tryhard old school fanatics.
Or DCSS- You can auto-explore/tab through a lot of DCSS, play MiBe to learn the ropes more. O-Tabbing MiBe in DCSS is top-tier arcade gameplay. Same with Tome4, premium autoexplore gameplay.

No shame in just sticking to FTL or Tiny Rogues or Dead Cells if you can't handle turnbased tilebased gaybased games

>>538741536
Ohhhh
Yeah, as noted in >>538742614
Roguelikes and roguelites should reallllly be considered two separate things- But roguelikes (these little tile based turnbased things) are such a comparatively niche genre that nobody really cared to differentiate them when breakout hits like Spelunky, Slay the Spire, FTL, etc were having such AMAZING success with marketing themselves that way- A lot of people would say those should be called roguelites, for clarity (the same way we switched from "doomlike" to "FPS"): Run based permadeath, unlockables, difficult, big learning curve, finnicky and complex mechanics, procgen pseudorandom gearing and levels, etc.

Rest assured, if you search for roguelike on Steam or something, you'll 90% get what you like. 99% if you ignore anything that looks tilebased. Some few games are also tagged as "roguelite" but it's kind of hit and miss owing to aforementioned lackluster adoption efforts by normies and normie marketers.

>>538742614
>>538742995
thanks fellas, much appreciated

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Okayyyy....
I get that Slumberlings are "bears" but did this motherfucker really need to carry around THREE fuckin skins of honey??

>>538741536
Unlocking of new levels doesn't actually change the resources your character has in a particular run. If you select the same level, you get the same experience, and it is in no way easier to win any level.

While a more pure rougelike experience would not have unlockable levels/run types and would not have persistent information for the crafting of items, both manage to avoid attacking the point of the genera. The recipes are there, even if you can't look at them, and correct play is not altered based on how many levels you have unlocked.

>the genera definition keeps changing
Not so, just people being flippant with their words.

Games, even in the same genera, are not the same in the way that matters. Like, "racing game" is really conceptually easy, but there's a pretty big difference between mario cart (a simple cartoony game with random items that add chaos and violence to the game), trackmania (tiny little tracks which are different each week where people compete for the fastest possible times by repeatedly driving very tight and specific racing-paths), and Forza Horizon (realistic game with realistic cars where you collect every irl car in existence by running laps against other humans. )

The things which appeal to people about each of these games are wildly different, and so it isn't enough to see what the genera is and then decide if you like the game or not.

Finding a game you would personally like is just naturally difficult.

>I don't like rouges
Hey, you don't like the rouges you've played. Remember the difference. There's still something that drew you to them in the first place, and maybe you can find that, if you keep your heart open.
There's no rush. The definitions don't rule you, but serve you instead.
Just do what you like.

>>538739426
>>538738037
I think such a roguelike with simulturns could work. It's actually an interesting idea.

>>538747602
Anything could work, but simulturn works better with simplified list of actions, since conflicts will happen regularly and you more or less have to account for each pair of action potentially conflicting

Deadlike

any good simulturn roguelike recommendations?

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I will be gone. If this thread dies again there will be a second happening tomorrow.

how do you commit crimes in elin. it doesnt let me just steal stuff

any ToME players? I found a crazy interaction with Murderblade and its Frenzy proc that insta kills you through unstoppable( and cauterize)
https://youtu.be/WzfrSrtnFHc

>>538763698
tome is full of spaghetti code so no surprise here
It is amazing that it is even playable
(I like it btw)

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Finally had the time to play some more Jupiter Hell classic and I went for the Angel of Marksmanship UV challenge.
Got a Combat Handgun on my first game, but there was a blackout and the game doesn't autosave, so I had to start again.
Got a Deagle at some point and since I was going for a Sharpshooter build, ammo wasn't much of a concern so it was viable for the rest of the game. I still had to play with a normal gun for a good amount since I wanted to keep most of my .44 ammo for the last levels.
With Sharpshooter lvl 3 you can oneshot absolutely anything with an aimed shot, and at lvl 2 you also can if you invested some P mods into your weapon. I was aiming to make a Deagle with AP3 to check out how good the Demolition Rounds assembly was, but I never found a 3rd P mod.
I think that's one of my problems with this game. It feels like a really, really small version of DoomRL. There's less special levels to gather mods or rare weapons/mods, so trying to make an assebly other than Tactical Boots is almost never a thng that happens. A shame, since Whizkid seems pretty good in this game and you could do a run around it if the game had more ways to get mods.

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>>538769054
In any case, Sharpshooter is OP enough to carry you, even if you have some bad luck with mods.
As long as you find a .762 sidearm or a plasma gun at some point, you're good to go.
Any exotic gun is a guaranteed win, as long as you don't get spawned in the middle of a bunch of monsters, or get swarmed by revived ones. To mitigate some of that bad luck, try to get Hellrunner once you get Sharpshooter, or after Sharpshooter+Whizkid 1 if you have a couple of P mods. Always have a couple of phase devices and envirosuits in case things get dicey. And with a couple of large medkits in your inventory as a guarantee, you can easily beat the last boss without even using aimed shots, but you can use them in its last phase because you can knock it back at that point and never get hit.

Now, I'll try Angel of Berserk to see how melee was reworked/balanced.

>>538739426
>Roguelikes look like simulturn but there is actually an order of operations under the surface, the results are just calculated and presented the moment you press that number key so it looks simultaneous.
Implementation vs presentation. The video's pegged an important factor in presentation, which is that you don't have to sit there and watch the "other side" make their moves, like you do in most turn-based games. How it works under the hood isn't all that important

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For making a big deal about in the changlelog, survivor amor in tlg seems kind of underwhelming. I'm not convinced the hood is even better than the standard wetsuit hood you unlock two levels earlier and with a quarter of the crafting time.

>>538737537
that's literally how real life works rtard

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>>538774108
>40 years, no one has any trouble with turnbased
>Now we need to call it simulturn
Ok, shillnon. Riddle me this- What's up with roguelikes that do all these animations and stuff?? I thought you said this was a simulturn genre! But everyone is taking their turn AFTER my turn before I get to go again! I can see it! In the combat log too! What gives???

>>538694991
How many years has this been posted ?

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>>538784571

>>538784571
>40 years, no one has any trouble with turnbased
So, uh, you're saying that Final Fantasy is a roguelike? Cool!

>>538784874
>It's simulturn because the turns happen at the same time
"ok anon, if it looks like that to you it's just because the computer is fast and does all the turns in order, sequentially, and it only takes a moment before it's your turn again"
>well it should be called simulturn because that's what the game LOOKS like
"Again, anon, that's not quite right- A lot of games these days do little animations for each move and you can see they go in order. Also, the combat log will show this too, that effects are resolved sequentially, not simultaneously"

You understand that, right? The initial explanation starts from the premise that you believe it to be a simultaneous turn mistakenly and deduces why you would think that- Many roguelikes LOOK like that (for the reason described) but aren't.
When you try to insist that because it looks like that it's a hallmark of the genre, it's further explained that most roguelikes look like that but many don't and basically none of them try to look like that on purpose.

minecraft hardcore is a roguelike
it has permadeath
randomgen
levelling and gear prog
square graphics
resource mangement

>>538786326
I have a gun in Qud, that makes it a firstperson shooter right?
^This is the same argument that was in the video, by the way.
One single facet isn't enough to just tack the entire genre on there and call it "well described"
You're flailing to post-facto justify this simulturn when you should've abandoned it the first time someone clarified the difference for you

>>538786678
Honestly, if it were turn-based and... Gridlocked? Minor mechanical overhaul to the controls, rounding off knockback/jump values to make that work?
I probably wouldn't complain. Not the first first-person roguelike dungeoncrawler I've seen.
...maybe like the third

There was this one shareware I played way back in the day, first person view, you had to manually turn left and right and it used a turn, too. Had these funny menus in the function keys that let you open up "cheats" for the paid version like "Melt floors" or "Become god"
Anyone know the one?

>>538786534
Yes, I know how they work, I'm a game dev. The description he's using isn't perfect, but it's describing what the genre feels like. Most traditional turn-based games take great care to show you everything your opponents are doing, 'cause it's important.
But roguelikes have very small, granular turns, and can have huge numbers of enemies, so from a UI standpoint it's necessary to skim over the 136 ants each taking one step towards the player and get to the player's turn so he can take one step.

Sure, it's kinda stupid from a technical standpoint, but it's a wholly workable way of describing the difference in gameplay IMO

Roguelike definition is too vague anyways.
Fire Emblem can count since its turn-based, grid based, has permadeath, RPG mechanics, resources since weapons break and random gen since enemies your units and enemies have random stats.

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>>538786369
>even the Berlin interpretation says it's more guideline than rulebook
ffs, why are people so awkwardly pedantic?

Yeah man, I thought I gave enough credence to the fact that the "turnbased gridbased Berlin-adjacent roguelike" community is so much smaller than the larger "adopted-roguelike-as-a-marketing-term" genre fans that there's no real point to arguing against it, really?

In this thread. In the thread before last.
Hell, a lotta roguelike fans are roguelite fans...
-and I use these words not because I believe it's pragmatic to try to get the larger gaming sphere onboard but because you and I both know what they mean and we're discussing the different genres specifically here-
...But not a lot of roguelite fans are roguelike fans.

Which, again, was the thrust of my discussion with the other anon. >You could try rogulike X, Y or Z for free but this isn't that kind of roguelike general- It should be what you're looking for elsewhere though

Where did I go wrong, anon? Why bully?

>>538787456
And yet, somehow, still
Roguelike enjoyers know it's not a roguelike, and more of a tactics battler (with weird storybased succession/character relationship management options)
Fire Emblem falls on the wrong side of Path of Achra- Instanced battles, lots of weird control modality, player "fields units" rather than "controls (a) character(s)" and it has an excessively structured story and gameplay progression- Entering and exiting levels is rarely at the player's sole discretion, for example.

It's more of a sliding scale than a uh, categorical checklist, right? You can have "roguelike elements" and not "be a roguelike" and it doesn't have to be a gotcha moment.
This naming convention, defining genres thing is to help people figure out what games they might like. It's not some... competition. Not every game needs to be shoehorned as a "soulslike" to sell 22% more units.

I think Path of Achra is a fine example for pushing the boundaries of what a roguelike is, in fact. I think it is.
Any thoughts?

>>538788459
>Not every game needs to be shoehorned as a "soulslike" to sell 22% more units
BRB, gonna design a cooking sim and label it a "soulslike"

>>538786326
It is if I hit the fast forward button on my emulator because it makes the turns go really fast

>>538787123
Ok, it feels like you're trying to revive a dead genre by baiting in players you're worried might be turned off by the (often) slower paced visual animations of turn-based menu battlers like Pokemon/FF.
And I'm really just trying to accurately describe a genre I'm intimately familiar with. Specifically I dislike simulturn because it implies a mechanical interaction that isn't there and has, as I recall, featured heavily in several "introduction to roguelikes" across forum posts, videos and even in roguelike Help files as a "common misconception" people have when they first see how most roguelikes typically play.

I'm open to working towards a compromise- Can you think of some more apt phrase to indicate that the player's turn is the central focus of the game and that enemy turns are executed quickly and without lengthy animations? Something like... Instant turn? Animationless? Fast animation? Rapid PC turn? Quick simulated actions, with or without animations? Somewhere in there?

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>>538788660
Too slow

Actually, come to think of it, I really liked uh... Dave the Diver/Potionomics, weirdly enough, around the same time.
Fuck do you call that kind of recipe juggling thing?
An Atelier-like?

>>538789137
>Can you think of some more apt phrase to indicate that the player's turn is the central focus of the game and that enemy turns are executed quickly and without lengthy animations? Something like... Instant turn? Animationless? Fast animation? Rapid PC turn? Quick simulated actions, with or without animations? Somewhere in there?
A better term would be good, "simulturn" is a stupid way of saying it. But it's reaching for something I feel is an important characteristic of the genre, one which allows you to have the massive numbers of mobs moving and acting without slowing things to a crawl.
>Instant turn? Animationless? Fast animation? Rapid PC turn? Quick simulated actions, with or without animations?
But these are all really terrible as well. I dunno, man

>>538789137
>Ok, it feels like you're trying to revive a dead genre by baiting in players you're worried might be turned off by the (often) slower paced visual animations of turn-based menu battlers like Pokemon/FF.
And no, my game isn't in the genre. I just fucking love roguelikes. I played Rogue back when it was state of the art, I beat Larn, I ascended in Nethack.
I feel like trying to make a definition of what roguelikes are is somewhere out in "P = NP" territory, where you could spend your life trying to work it out, and there's always gonna be somebody there to poke holes in whatever you came up with.

>>538789790
Important, but not primary.

If you had a procedural fire emblem campaign with permadeath and constant saves, it would fall into the rougelike genera.

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Slowly coming together-
One of the gutsmongers at Six Day coughed up an electric generator, so now I've got my Masterwork Phasecannon Jacked up. Scrounged together the bits to fit an antimatter cell with a Radio for it, too, so I'm blasting.
The Knollworm Skull is giving me Temporal Fugue, so I can't ditch that.
Might get rid of the Grav-Sled soon as I have something worth fitting in there- Should get the Dusk Lens soon, at least, but I really want the leylines of course. Only got one Neutron dram so far.
Got my first polygel, few more and I can dupe up the cloning dram and schrodinger's page.

Bit of a problem at uh, bear central. I dropped a Legendary Putus Templar I love injectored off there thinking the turrets would handle him without giving me the rep hit (bastard had my gun rack AND a shield upgrade wielded).

So all the bears are dead and I had to tunnel to Otho's office to start Omonporch.
No worries though.

Any good Carbide Chef recipes to put together? I finally fished out a +4 Ego/Psychometry so I can get the last few complexities down with +1 more ego.
And how do I wean myself off of fucking Night Vision cybernetics??

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>>538790592
For more information google Sonic Infla- Check out Fields of Potentiality

What are some roguelikes with snipers?
Hardmode: no DDA tankdrones

>>538793694
tome4

>>538793694
Elona+

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>Attack one guy
>Run away and rest
>repeat
Why are roguelikes fun exactly? At least with cyoa gamebooks there are sometimes different endings and shit you can get depending on your choices but in roguelikes you're just killing monsters and dying because you didn't use a cheap strategy endlessly.

>>538800158
Play Nethack and see how your one cheap strategy works out for you

>>538793694
LCS

>>538800746
No thanks, I've had enough of getting kicked in the nuts by every letter of the alphabet for one day. I'll stick to games for straight people.

>>538694991
If it isn't fun and boomers love it it's a roguelike

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>the stilt merchants are biting today
Are you getting your recommended daily dose, rlg? A balanced diet is important, you know.

>>538791128
You can get addicted to cybernetics?

>>538807098
Immortan Joe told me not to become addicted to water, but he didn't say shit about being addicted to seeing the entire screen.

Pentrating Radar I guess.
Or I get a Multiscanner and replace my VISAGE with Interpolators?
There's not really any hidden objects are there, after that one troll and mines, right?

>>538769054
>>538769775
After splatting for the whole day trying to beat AoB with 100% kills on UV, I've determined it's almost impossible to do it without some kind of extreme luck involved. Berserk powerups barely spawned in the first 4 levels during all of my runs, and when I was able to get the Berserk trait, I was never able to make it work. I don't really know how many times you have to hit "popcorn" (can't even call them popcorn because I was never able to kill things in a single hit, even with Brute 3) but I was only triggering it irregularly after hitting like 6 times or more without moving from the spot I was. In DoomRL it was like 4 hits to trigger it, so I hoped it would be more in that ballpark.
Talking about DoomRl, it was also pretty hard to get an UV AoB run going in there, with Hell Knights appearing in level 3 to eat all of your medpacks and your armors, but it was doable if you could trigger Berserk in the actual popcorn that did die in one hit with only Brute 2.
And if you could get to the Chained Court in level 4 you could pick up the Chainsaw at the start of the level, which was your ultimate answer to everything from there on.
In JHC you can pick up a Machete if you clear one of the special levels fully, but you have to clear them with your knife that can't oneshot anything and since powerups spawn rarely in this game, you're bound to reach those special levels badly hurt and with little to no medpacks left, so even if you somehow get the Machete at the end of the level, you're not gonna last long after that, since the Machete doesn't have the same stopping power the Chainsaw had and you're gonna fight against the equivalent of Revenants with that.

TL;DR: AoB UV seems to be unbeatable at 100% kills right now, or at least incredibly dependant on either luck or... well, just luck.
Maybe it will change in a later update, but unless you do some Stealth cheese strats, don't bother trying it now.

>>538793694
Frog

Would I like ADOM if I don't care much for nethack?

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what are some roguelikes for uh
I'm tired and this is stupid

>>538810629
AoB UV 100% is pretty doable with Tech + drones, but on the JH discord there's a beta that makes melee more viable in general.

>>538722037
The point isn't that the turns are mechanically simultaneous but that they effectively are and perceived as such.
Quasimorph's missions are incredibly roguelike in most of their aspects, but multi-action turns make the game play way different and much closer to a tactical shooter like XCOM than to what most people perceive as a roguelike game.

The decision of not processing actions actually simultaneously is merely a design choice as most actions in roguelike games are instant and simply induce a "turn cooldown" on completion.
The energy systems used by modern roguelikes can easily support queued actions with activation and duration times resulting in a possibility of things happening truly simultaneously.
It's just actually implementing that in a genre with traditionally minimal visual feedback would result in nothing but frustration and confusion, hence why no one does it.
It's not anywhere close to being an actual genre-defining characteristic and neither is it an actual meaningful mechanical aspect.

You tunnel-visioning on this technicality is completely retarded and pointless - you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

>>538821195
That Quasimorph turn-based mechanic however makes it extremely slow and annoying to play the game optimally - which really doesn't work in a game where you're supposed to grind missions (very unroguelike missions BTW).

>>538821195
The thing that you are perceiving isn't accurately described by the term. The fact that your preception is real doesn't mean that you used correct words to describe it. Calling other people pedantic because you said a completely wrong thing while having the correct spirit in your heart regarding your own intended meaning is dumb bastard behavior.

Simply use a more accurate term, or else perpetuate confusion willfully out of nothing more but the willful refusal to accept correction.

The person saying "maybe select a better term, any better term" is not in a tunnel.
The person saying "I'm going to stick with this because it's what I already stuck wiith" is.
Don't be that person.

The alternative is an infinite repeating future of basically this exact shitty conversation over and over between different people.

>>538821503
>Calling other people pedantic
I do not call people pedantic, do not put words into my mouth.
Pedantic people usually know what they are talking about.
I'm calling people "retarded" because the people in question don't.
>because you said
Also, take your meds, you're responding to my first post ITT.

There's such a thing as arguing in good faith.
When the statement goes along the lines of "simultaneous turns" everyone with a brain would understand that in the context of defining a genre, the point is very unlikely be a mechanical fucking implementation.
To bring up the implementation technicalities you either have to be an unironic retard or a nigger arguing in bad faith. Pick your poison.

>>538821909
>To bring up the implementation technicalities you either have to be an unironic retard or a nigger arguing in bad faith.
Why can't he just be autistic like the rest of us?

>>538821909
In good faith, you would note the obvious intention of "pedantic" combined with it's technical accuracy instead of pointing out the obvious fact that you didn't use the word, or at least notice that nobody actually said you specifically used the word. And you certainly wouldn't use your own subjective anecdotal association with the common users of the word in order to refuse to process the argument you are responding to.

>my first post
Fine, but it doesn't change anything I want to say. You're still advocating on the side of keeping the word the same, and so still carry the same burden, even if I would have to make a grammatical adjustment in order to properly direct my comment at you in particular.

>mechancial implementation IS on topic
>implementation techncialities aren't
see that doesn't mean anything
you're whole argument here is your own dismissivness, and nothing more. Mechanical implementation IS technical, and beneath the notice of the average normal consumer.

While "mechanics" might be notable, "mechanical implementation" certainly wouldn't be, unless you are attempting to categorizes or design games, in which case it suddenly matters how they are constructed and WHY they feel certain ways to play.

>>538822596
So an unironic retard it is, gotcha.
Thanks for letting me know.

I'm just saying I'm not reading the reddit posts, thank you.

>>538822905
>muh reddit spacing
fuck off newfag

I can't believe people still argue with the simulturn retard in the current year.
That nigga's IQ so low he probably is actually black.

Roguelikes are just real-time-with-pause fight me.

>>538830831
Tile based is just 3d-with-large-pixles

happy?

I will work on my ragulike today! Wish me luck!
odds - uphold promise
evens - don't
primes - jerk of then try again

>>538821195
i have never once perceived turns to be simultaneous, and they are not "effectively" that. there's obvious ordering because enemies i kill or disable on my turn do not get their turn.
what a dumb argument.

1% of the people hold 95% of the wealth
1% of people fuck 95% of the women
we are the oppressed masses

>>538834341
Roguelikes where you can play as the 1%?

>>538834380
you definitely have a 1% winrate
lmao gotten

Roguelikes where I can engrave my bullets with my ideaologies (such as the Berlin interpretation)?

>>538832748
>I never once perceived the thing in the way it was deliberately designed to be perceived and in the way virtually everyone perceives it
>It is very obvious because when I do a very specific thing that composes a minuscule part of a combat encounter total-time-wise, it happens to work that that way, ignoring all the cases where it doesn't, such as ToME projectiles that do have travel times
Aren't you very smart and special.

>>538836746
>designed to be perceived
nigga a lack of animation isn't a design choice
you are giga dumb
go check your thermostat and report back to us your IQ

>>538834380
adom, merchant (gnomish). fling da bling

>>538821195
Still championing simulturn? F'real? Bro, argue with yourself:

>It's just actually implementing that...would result in nothing but frustration and confusion, hence why no one does it.
>It's not anywhere close to being an actual genre-defining characteristic and neither is it an actual meaningful mechanical aspect.

So why INSIST on calling it that when no one does it, it would be frustrating to play and only confuses people?
inb4 "Oh well it kind of looks like that"
Where the fuck is Coghate bro when you need him?
>You try to offer an alternative to the simulturn stan but he already made his choice

>>538830831
desu in any real-time with pause game I hate having to constantly try and time everything so I don't waste seconds doing nothing.
Cultist Simulator in particular pissed me the fuck off about that, having to minmax the exact second something went off to keep your loops intact. Really glad Book of Hours fixed that by just giving you giant fuck off time segments to drunkenly stumble around in while keeping a similar cards-turn-into-timers gameplay convention

>>538836943
>Still
meds
>So why INSIST
take your meds.

I'm not insisting on anything.
I'm stating very clearly that the whole "the turns aren't simultaneous in a technical sense" argument is incredibly retarded and completely misses the point of the conversation.
Specifically "simultrun" sounds retarded, but the full phrase is descriptive enough to convey the message.

The entire problem with the interpretation of "roguelike". you underage retard, is that people are always failing at making it clear and concise.
I'm yet to hear a better descriptor than something along the lines of
>"hack 'n' slash RPG with simultaneous granular turns"
And the big reveal, you dumb fuck, is that if you make the turns TRULY simultaneous, NOTHING will fucking change. That's why it's NOT the point.
You do not define a genre by something that literally doesn't fucking matter.

If you have a better description of the above - go ahead. No one is stopping you.

>>538837473
It would though. That would change how the game functions wildly.

You can say something more like "it wouldn't change the core of how the game feels to play"
but if you say that, then you're saying that simultaneity ISN'T part of the genera, in either direction, inclusive of exclusive.

Your argument, taken directly and accepted, leads to the conclusion that simulturn and normal-turn games belong in the same genera.

genuinely, die

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>>538837473
Like >>538839139 said, you keep turning your own argument. Roguelikes are a pretty technical bunch of games, too- The meat of tactics gameplay is HEAVILY reliant on understanding how the enemy will react to your actions. I don't understand the /benefit/ to using simulturn to mean "It's turnbased but also you can take your turns basically as fast or slow as you want, usually, since the computer can process its turn fast"

Nevermind that a handful of heavy hitter well-polished commercial roguelikes DO (by default, though most can be turned off) insist that sitting there and watching a dozen bump-n-wiggle animations and sound effects is the intended experience

Where's your simulturn god when I'm watching Qud bounce a geomagnetic disc all over my screen, fighting for input control or when I load up Dredmor and every attack and dodge is a laboriously slow tifuck teasefest?

>>538839139
>That would change how the game functions
Which makes literally no difference for defining a genre
>"it wouldn't change the core of how the game feels to play"
Which is paramount to defining a genre.

Anyone with a brain understands that.
>then you're saying that simultaneity ISN'T part of the genera
No, you fucking retard, that's NOT what I'm saying.
I'm saying that the technicality of the turns being or not being REALLY simultaneous doesn't fucking matter.
The FEELING of
>the world moves when you move
is what matters. And "simultaneous turns" happens to encapsulate both the fact the game is fundamentally turn-based AND the feeling of the world moving together with you.
It is the one feature if you remove out of a roguelike that will make it feel like something entirely different.

In fact, Diablo has literally started as a pure roguelike game but then the devs have decided to make the "turns" happen on their own.
And doing just that was enough to completely change the genre.

>>538840084
>I'm saying that the technicality of the turns being or not being REALLY simultaneous doesn't fucking matter.
then they both belong in the same genera
are you ok?

>>538840084
>Diablo
Isn't that real time?
Completely off topic.

>>538840084
...You don't think how the game functions is relevant to defining a key characteristic of it?
Simultaneous isn't some buzzword for "happens real fast" anon
I don't know why you settled on simulturn for low-animation.
Turn based is fine. The simulation of the world is based on turns. The gameplay is based on deciding what to do on your turn. When your turn happens, that's the basis for the computer to take its turn.

Is it just the "People will think it's le fuckin Final Fantasy" thing still?? Baby, what's the deal?

>>538839827
>tfw no laboriously slow titfuck tease

>>538839139
>Your argument, taken directly and accepted, leads to the conclusion that simulturn and normal-turn games belong in the same genera.
No, you retard.
My argument when taken directly and accepted, points out that the "turns appearing to be simultaneous" are genre-defining for roguelikes.
It again, retard, can be easily demonstrated by taking something like a TBS and inspecting the gameplay difference switching turns to simultaneous (i.e. asynchronous) would create.
Because, retard, it should be clear (yes, even to someone as retarded as you are), that the change would create a MASSIVE gameplay difference for a TBS.
That wouldn't change the genre, because "TBS" is an incredibly wide umbrella and the specifics of "turns" literally do not matter on that level. But it would create enough of a difference to engage or completely turn off large groups of people on that distinction alone.

Meanwhile, in a roguelike, the distinction between turns being or not being actually simultaneous will amount to noise. If you provide a way of clearly telegraphing the state of enemy actions as well as allow the player to quickly and precisely estimate the "startup" of theirs, it'd be a nearly universal improvement.
In ToME4 you can literally get killed after you make your turn that was supposed to kill or disable the enemy that ultimately killed you due to the projectile travel time I've mentioned before.

You are literally failing to comprehend how is something paramount to the gameplay experience expected from the genre happens to constitute the definition of the genre, while something that has literally no effect on the aforementioned gameplay experience expected doesn't.
I can't explain it further than that. We're hitting the point of you being required to not be retarded enough to understand what words mean.
>>538839827
You are just retarded, anon.

>>538840506
He's that anon fag from last thread who said "le Berlin interpretation was only made to stop Diablo from getting called a roguelike"
Which, fuck, I wasn't there I guess man maybe. It was a handful of greasy nerds just a bit before going to cons hit mainstream culture again. I'm surprised they were as even handed and open-minded as they were, desu.

Even then, no one is using the Berlin Interpretation as a serious Berlin Rubric. It's, at best, a shorthand for "I mean roguelikes, not roguelites, google sonic inflation for more information"
Full of superseded limitations and non-binding conventions, is what it is- At least it's not fuckin hung up on some dumb buzzword. At least when I say roguelite in this thread I know I'm never going to fucking making fetch happen

>>538840938
Take your meds you retard.
Holy fuck, I keep forgetting why I barely come to this general.

>>538840379
Anon, you might notice that this post is EXTREMELY FUCKING FRUSTRATING.
It is frustrating because of the choice to express the thing being expressed using these particular words. The primary word being borrowed to form this message is "simultaneous." In order to properly communicate information about the technical mechanical details of these games, that word MUST be used in THIS EXACT WAY.

It becomes frustrating BECAUSE of your choice to create a super extra bastardization of a word which claims the form of this already-existent word.

You are being frustrated by the EXACT lack of clarity and accuracy which you are being warned about. You are doing it to yourself.

>>538840938
My opinion on rougelites started with the binding of issac. From there, I played so many rougelites that I figured out what a rougelike must be like mostly from deduction, and then played a few.

Didn't read the berlin thing until a week ago, and think both that it is silly and that the haters are twice as silly.

Okay faggots
Final Fantasy is a roguelike.
The only thing sadder than posting in this general is arguing in this general
And the only thing sadder than that is trying to force your micropeen status e-celeb youtuber video into the OP in every. Single. Thread.

Man debating the insane left frustrated

>>538841352
I'm a little agog that a bunch of sweats having a circlejerk at some random fuckoff meetup managed to widely enough disseminate their manifesto that it's became the slightly-shitty-copper standard for defining the genre. But I'm even more surprised that it's so ubiquitous and nobody has managed to imprint their (shitty simulturn or not) V 2.0 draft draft final UPDATED draft V 3.0 THIS ONE !!!!! final "improvement" to the definition.
I bet all you'd have to do is shitpost in rlg for a week and you'd catch all eleven roguelike fans in the world

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>>538840636
How I sleep at night being a knower

>>538841915
doesn't count if she's a butterface

>>538841712
Well, you would need the rest of the internet homos to agree with you at all, in that you would need to actually appeal to them.

And there's no reason to do that, because again, hating on the Berlin definition is dumb.

If you're literate, then you should be able to comprehend the general idea which the berlin definition is going for, and the fact that is it only going for the general idea. If you find an outright flaw with it, that just means you personally have enough information that you can personally improve on your understanding of the genera enough to surpass the berlin interpretation. Congratulations.

That doesn't really help the people with less information than you. They need a shitty copper-level guide which makes the fact that it is imperfect perfectly clear.

Pretending you're good enough to supersede the current working "interpretation" means claiming that what you've provided is an actual "definition", which is pointless, because people don't need actual definitions for any other genera in any other medium. You aren't told what a genera is. You experience it, and then maybe express it to those who ask.

That's what normal-people do, rather than getting caught up on forcing an inaccurate term while telling other people how caught up they are.

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>>538842286

>>538836746
>a very specific thing
enemies dying is not exactly a rare happening in fights, my retarded friend

>projectile travel time
if you heal or otherwise react it'll happen always and only before that projectile lands. there is no mystery about the ordering.
or is using my defensive abilities too specific of a thing as well?

Roguelikes about profound retardedness? Like you can make a 3 INT character in Fallout 1/2 and expect the game to react to you differently.

>>538844281
I think they're just legitimately bad at the game(s) man.
I kind of used to think in a similar way too- I'd think I was getting hit because I moved into a tile the enemy had tried to step into, or that I could juke (basic) enemy AI with weird movement. It's just literally not understanding the actual fundamental basics of the game that leads to this.

>>538844630
Try miscasting in DCSS, anon.
I think a handful have shopkeepers treat you differently based on your conducts or stats or god or whatever- I wanna say it was a thing in some *bands but I never played any.

How do you mean, though? There's not often a lot of dialogue- Does no selling malmutate spam because you worship Zin count?

>>538844281
The act of enemy dying where it would actually matter is a very minor part of a combat exchange.
If you assume any unspecified amount of "startup" and "recovery" time instead of every action being instant, the practical application of that difference would play ANY role in a minority of encounters and would actually matter in a minuscule amount.
>there is no mystery about the ordering
You can't even run a simple combat simulation you're this fucking stupid.
Observe:
>enemy has 1 HP
>you shoot an arrow at the enemy
>while arrow travels enemy gets its turn because it was 99% "there" when you shot the arrow
>it uses an instant ability and hits you
>you die
That's an actual scenario that happens in ToME relatively frequently and it's one of the reason to never rely on projectile skills to actually do anything.

That's the thing you're missing. A functional brain.
I understand what you're trying to say better than you do and I'm telling you it doesn't matter.
You are too retarded to understand why. You are simply incapable of comprehending the topic at hand.
You're lacking critical thinking.

>>538845135
That's just simulating travel time and action length, my guy.
The act of "taking your turn" is picking an action.
It's not being done simultaneously. We're not playing BattleCON, brother, we're playing "I go, he goes that guy goes the other one goes a different one goes the next one goes she goes, I go"

turn-based simulation game
izi
Just because multiple things can be happening simultaneously (i.e. during each timestep/gametstate) doesn't mean that the turns are being taken "simultaneously"
It's still just "turn based" because your control of the game happens in a turn-by-turn manner. "Simultaneous turns" introduces some bizarre complex mechanical resolution to conflicting actions that, as noted, essentially never make it into a game

>>538846259
See. You're just retarded.

Roguelikes where you play as a 22 year old?

>>538775260
Isn't it a use both case? one is close to skin and the other is overtop.

>>538846748
there are no roguelikes about being a child

>>538847794
In what state is a child 22 year old

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>>538848315
>In what state is a child 22 year old
in my mental state.

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So uhhhhh

>>538852909
Oh, it's really hugging the west wall, I think the dumb bastard spotted someone in the lounge somehow. Just had to disable it again and walk him more east and it locked onto Bep now

Roguelikes with furries in them?

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Just tinkered like 10 batches of 20 nuclear cells up and down
Zero auto-tinkers to high-capacity
What's the point, seriously. These are 5 license points? You're kidding.
The only thing I can think of is that it's priced based on you duping bits using that one quest reward (I think you can, at least), not because it's THAT useful to have a measly 10% bit chance or tinker in combat.

These should have a UI to let you craft grenades as you throw them or do something useful- Or keep them as "pure downtime" buff and just change them to gloves.

>>538854747
You, the player.

>>538821150
I forgot they added those drones that make the early game a joke, but I want to play as something else than tech, for God's sake.
Why is that class so OP?
>on the JH discord there's a beta
I'll check it out and see what's new. Hopefully there's more levels because I still feel the game's pretty barren in that department right now.

>loot a zombie
>notices each bullet is considered individual item
>turns out they have different etchings on them

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Ay
AY YO
Hol up

>>538863450
it would really help if you said what the fuck was important with your post, the message log doesn't help, you suck, and qud is a shit game.

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I think I might not actually put it on- Maybe if it was the concussion one, I dunno if "built in random recoiler" is really all that great

>>538863652
It's just a rare item anon. Maybe you should jerk off about it if you're so mad lmao

>>538864246
>install this rocket chair on your back
>only REAL MEN can do this btw

>>538864484
The mutantcel fears the Lil Rascal pilled mog-kin flex.
Please excuse me, I have a pile of 17 male jewel merchants whose stones need to be polished, I'll be back in two weeks once I'm done

>>538868759
> I have a pile of 17 male jewel merchants whose stones need to be polished
least homosexual caves of qud player

do you remember when people used to play videogames around here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=varF12Qz9sw

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>>538864246
>permanently grafting yourself into a chair