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Play UnReal World!

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Ohayou gozaimasu, /rlg/!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's play our best today!

Be careful! New moon tonight.

So, with the new Shapeshifting ability in DCSS, what should I start leveling up, STR or DEX? What does Unarmed Combat scale with?

>>540092776
Unarmed wants str but dodging wants dex. Everyone needs to do damage, but you don't have a shield or chest plate in that form, so you need some defense too.
there's also nothing stopping a dragon-form from casting corpse-to-miasma or summon-carpentry, so int isn't half bad.

>>540093572
So I should basically strive to balance the stats, huh? With how funky unrand rings are nowadays, I can probably do that.
The OctoDragon legend continues.

>>540093734
If you're octo, you can just grab lesser beckoning, which doesn't need int, and get so much damage from strength that you don't need high dex either. Rings let you switch your dex out for str later.

There are actually quite a few spells that don't care about your int much, so you can just collect those and passwall your stealthy dragon next to enemies.

>>540093734
It really does seem like every single run I get a rainbow array of +6 rings by D:3
Of course, I also end up getting shafted into a fistful of Tier 3 demons and utterly wrecked by an Orange Demon/Soul Eater guarding the only up stairs I can find, so... Haha fun game :)

>>540094693
>you can just grab lesser beckoning
I dunno what's that since the wiki's been ded for a week, but I'll be on the lookout for it.
What would be a good god to go for? I used to go Sif Muna for the spells, but now that there's no need I'm not sure if I should go for good ol' Oka or something wilder like the Wu-Tang Clan or Usk.

>MiBe
>D6 boulder beetle
>literally CANNOT fucking kill this thing
>can't even HURT it even with berserk
What the fuck? I don't remember it being this crazy. I've melee'd these fuckers with ice mages using staves and shapeshifters with their bare hands before.

>>540094904
I remember the shafting bullshit was pretty mercyless during .27-.28, but these new versions haven't felt that bad with the obligatory one shaft per branch.

>>540095018
WTC shapeshifter is supposedly nuts.
Cleave with dragon claws.

>>540095135
They have no ev or hp
toss some no-skill poison darts and then close a door on em, and maybe don't fight that lair-level creature on d6

>>540095192
I think almost all of my deaths have been from getting too far down on .34
Mostly from shafting, but a few times I've ended up cheesing it from a pack of orcs or gnolls I couldn't ditch and having to take the downstairs.
I don't know if I'm just not blowing through consumables enough or what- I guess I'm a dinosaur, but it used to be fairly reasonable to try guessing to ID your pots/scrolls when I played back in the day.
Now I can blow through a full 10 ID scrolls (luckily still my largest stack 90% of the time) and only hit moonshine or noise and nothing that'll let me fight up or get out of a bad spot and I'm back to dying quaffing curings for net -3 health, hoping to gain some HP, since every fucking thing is faster than me and gets infinity attacks of opportunity

Just don't know what to do about that.
The consumable problem, mind you, I know exactly what to do about infinite AOO- Stop trying to play the game like a roguelike and reposition mid-combat, because I'll take 8 hits stepping one tile around a corner.

>>540086696
>can't play M&B until viking dlc because 'tism
>bored of Exanima
>want to play roguelike instead
>kind of want to play Qud, but want better combat and a more random world map
>kind of want to play DF, but too aimless in goals and lacks complex dungeons
>kind of want to play CDDA, but unsure where the dust has settled on the newer forks
What do?

>>540098856
Play DCSS and see how much shit has changed. That's what I'm doing right now and it's fairly amusing.

>>540099109
DCSS?

>>540099716
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup. Can be played online or you can download it if you want to check it out.

>>540098856
>kind of want to play CDDA, but unsure where the dust has settled on the newer forks
Bright Nights is the one you most likely want. It's the oldest of the existing forks, the most mature, and best keeps the spirit of what Cataclysm used to be before the endless "realism" content cuts and gameplay nerfs.
TLG seems like a project to watch, but not one to play until it gets a little more stable and further along.

>>540100578
I have a hard time when trying out BN. It's just so different from what I'm used to

>>540101929
there's only one new fork people care about and that's TLG, if you prefer the near-future setting, and don't mind it being tuned to be more difficult, then you'll probably like it

>>540101929
Been a while since I played, but I'm sure most of this advice is still good. Get yourself some wood, smash a bench if you have to, and make a cudgel. It's a pretty good early-game weapon. Combine with a window or a set of bushes for best effect. Zombies are slowed when crawling through/over, and you'll get extra attacks with a better chance to hit and to evade.

Try to circle the outskirts of the nearest town; look for houses that are on the edge and don't have any large numbers of zeds nearby. Enter through a back window as quietly as you can. Makeshift lockpicks are a good idea for doors, but a slightly noisy makeshift crowbar (from the pipes you get bashing the lockers in the shelter) is probably what you'll have. If not, you can smash windows, but back away and wait to see if anything investigates.
Once inside, move around carefully, staying near furniture for lower visibility, and try to get to the windows unseen and close the curtains. If they can't see you and don't hear you, they won't come bashing on the windows and doors until they smell you, which takes a while, and gives you time to loot the place.

Oh and if a Mi-Go sees you, run towards some zombies until it aggros them, then run and hide.
>>540103402
He didn't ask for "a new fork" and he's already having trouble so "more difficult" is probably not a good suggestion.

>>540103624
>kind of want to play CDDA, but unsure where the dust has settled on the newer forks
>newer forks
what does newer fork mean to you

>>540103624
>He didn't ask for "a new fork"
My brother in blob, I literally did. Kevin is too autistic, but that wormgirl branch seemed neato
>more difficult
The problem with BN is not difficulty, but the fact that it's missing a lot of shit I'm familiar with and feels off

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>>540104102
>>540104356
Okay, my bad

how's the wormgirl branch?

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>>540112837

I am extremely mentally ill

Extremely butthurt about Borgnjor's Revivification not having a confirmation before casting it. It was set to n while Bombard was m so I casted it by mistake I think more than a dozen times
Is there a way for me to see how many times I casted it or how much health I lost?

>>540114562
*cast it
Cast is the past tense of cast.

>>540114562
Yeah after you die you can see how many times you cast any spell in your morgue file. I don't think there's any straightforward way of determining how much health you lost due to it being somewhat random or at very least you'd have to calculate it based on your stats at the exact turn of each cast which sounds too difficult

>>540115090
I just finished the game, where is the number of times I cast a spell in the morgue file? I'm seeing the same information the game had, power, damage, failure and level
Whatever, at 27 Spellcasting and 21.4 Fighting I had 150 max health with Djinni, definitely has to be higher than that
Some thoughts
They nerfed the fuck out of Evos, I felt like in previous versions you'd have 6ish wands and 1 or two other evo items during lair, I had 3 wands during lair in this playthrough. The difference is huge
IMO the only interesting thing is Forgecraft school, there aren't that many tech related things in RLs. Frog has stuff like Steam Powered Mechanical Dragons but you can't play them

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>>540116481
Should be at the very bottom

>>540116760
Yeah I saw that after posting, I apparently cast it 7 times. According to crawl wiki it takes 6%-15% of max health every time, very annoying

>>540116481
I agree evocations feels far less relevant these days and most characters can ignore them outright. They're far more situational like Phial of flood for uniques with really dangerous spells or phantom mirror I guess is just always useful

>>540116928
Holy shit that sucks. You should be able to edit your ini file so that it always asks for confirmation before casting revivification. Idk the exact syntax however.

An easier solution is you can assign "=" key your spells to different letters and next time move it to a different letter to make it harder to castcon accident

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>>540117259
Forgot to attach pic

>>540087958
When the hell are we getting the marriage update?

>>540114071
you're in the right place

>>540114562
Fault.

Why aren't there female sounds for URW?

https://youtu.be/-13LUfagQhY?si=7IJA2eUmFAesOR7B

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>>540095967
I don't think I've closed a single door in my 15 years of playing this game.

>>540116481
>They nerfed the fuck out of Evos
the bucket system for wands is pretty rough, too. it sucks to never get a wand of dicking in your runs when the game decides to generate that way.

>>540125430
Every time I try it I get shit on.
Not like anything past D:3 hasn't got sInv and rPoison and Will: ∞ and "On average, moves much faster than you (212%)"
Even fucking red slimes can open doors.
But very very few animals can be fucked by a closed door, yeah.
If you've ever died to a quokka at XL 1 maybe you should've found a door :^)

>no omegaverse roguelike

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I can scarcely imagine a better polygel target for a young boy to find exploring the marshes around Joppa.

>DDA is realistic but you can't just print $300 drones that solve the entire game

>>540087958
I did but I kept on getting raped by bandits and moose so I stopped lol.

>>540135126
I wish there's a rape mechanic

>>540136853
To rape others, right?

>>540137087
Eh you can always go both ways

>>540112837
i like it because it's basically dda but without exodii and imgui, and balanced to be a bit tougher
it needs more time and content updates to have it's own identity

>>540124021
this guy is a vtuber now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvUUz3jRozM

>>540101929
BN is basically like claiming a horse drawn carriage is much better than a car.

>>540139658
>comparing DDA to a car

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Another basic TOME question. I'm playing an Archmage and I cruise through the first two areas. Some close calls, but as long as I quickly press my shields upon seeing an enemy I can mostly get through things. I enter the Rhaloren Camps at level 7, when their level range is 1-7, and smash through it. The on the final floor the boss is Level 13 while I'm level 8. It's basically a slaughterhouse, I can't hit him reliably, he shreds my shields, and he zips towards me whenever I teleport away to heal or search for the stairs up.
What went on here exactly? Did the boss get overleveled since I was 1 level past the max for the area? Are bosses always +5 levels? Was I going to eat dirt no matter what unless I fled better? Not salty, just curious to know how to play the game better. It seems right now that TOME may involve a lot of "see high level boss/rare -> immediately use every tool to flee and abandon the entire area."

>>540141561
ToME is a game where you're gonna be cruising through 95% of it and then you'll find an actual threat and you'll get cocky because you've been killing everything in one hit and the you'll get exploded in a single turn for it.

The only way to stop that from happening next time is to check out every rare enemy you encounter and check out their abilities before you even think of walking further. If you are confident enough to engage with your current abilities, then keep on going and if not, then pop some movement speed boosters and run to the stairs. There's like 20 other zones you can explore before taking that fight, just walk away bro.

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>>540143097
>just walk away bro.
Death it is

>>540143097
Alright, this is going to sound like a criticism, but I do mean it generically. Isn't it slightly annoying them to play a class that wants to push a lot of buttons for random mobs? Like on Archer I was basically just spamming 11111 on mobs until a fight, whereas on archmage I had to alternate spells, and as mentioned use my shields even on generic mobs. It seems like progress is much slower and potentially more tedious playing a class where the "95% cruising" involves a lot of buttons.

>>540143097
>>540143735
Oh yeah P.S. I tried to walk away but my Archmage teleports weren't yet high enough to aim, and I couldn't make it to the stairs before he caught me multiple times over.

>>540143735
>>540143890
What I mean is you have to check out the monsters before you engage in combat with them. If you try to rush a motherfucker you've never seen before and during combat you then notice he's 8 levels higher than you and designed specifically to chase and kill mages, then no shit you're not gonna escape.

And about Archmage, it might be more tedious at first to use 12121212 instead of only 111111, but later you can nuke entire rooms so you're basically trading tediousness in the early game for no tediousness in the late game.

>>540141561
Blight magic is very high burst damage, but most shalore and ogre characters I make can deal with the first 2 dungeons on normal. As an archmage you should pick your one or two main beam spells and get them to level 4 fast because they have low cooldowns and are more mana efficient than the big spells. Same goes for Arcane Blade if you try one down the line, lightning bolt everything as a bootleg mage until you have good melee gear

>>540143735
Archmage is widely considered the strongest class but yes, there is a lot of manually casting your shields each fight

>>540138463
I wish he weren't. That's unpleasant. I much preferred the style of that older video. Vtubing is a gateway into trannyism.

>>540145314
Not so much a vtuber than an animated png tuber, zoomette.

>>540145314
>gateway
oh she's way ahead

>>540138463
I love the multiple insanity filter he has
>It doesn't matter
>It doesn't affect my life
>Nobody cares
Only really think he has right is that Balatro is not a rougelike and I've also seen it with the "Simulator" on the Switch Marketplace of all places. It isn't a simulator, if it is then effectively all video games are simulations. Not that I ever filter by genre, I usually go by word of mouth and youtube reviews more than scouring a category.

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>Barachim are an amphibious humanoid species, spawned at the dawn of time as servants for the gods. Inevitably, they rebelled and fled into the mortal world; but even uncounted years later, the darkness still flees at their approach, remembering those they once served.

This never quite made sense to me. In the first place, if they were servants, why would they have to "rebel and flee"? Servant implies some level of autonomy or choice. Servants are allowed to quit and leave. If they were being forced into their labor then that means they were slaves, not servants. Did they just avoid using the word "slave" because its a no-no word? Sort of like why they changed Pikel from a simple Kobold slaver into something else with escorting damned souls to hell which is just convoluted.

Also why would the darkness flee from their approach? Which gods were they serving exactly? If it were Dith, Kiku, Mahkleb, Yred, Lugonu, or even Beogh i'd think darkness clinging to them would make just as much or more sense. But if they were serving zin or TSO then it seems plausible for darkness to "flee" from their approach. But then that would imply that the good gods were forcing sentient beings into slavery which is hardly the sort of thing we'd associate with goodness.

>>540141561
First, enemy levels in tome4 tends to be a guideline rather than a "you should be at this level" kind of thing. This becomes more apparent in higher difficulties. In any case, you should do the dungeons that is of the lowest level range first, regardless of whether you are within that range. Bosses being over leveled is fine.

Next, I don't think there's anything wrong with the boss doing some 80 damage. It wasn't even a crit. You "missed" the boss, meaning you did a melee bump, which unfortunately is NOT recommended for caster classes since they effectively do 0 damage and have 0 accuracy. You should be killing the boss with spells.

Finally, in tome4 in general you should try to find a movement infusion (check towns) and zig zag your way through corners to avoid enemies. This is especially important for archmage since movement cannot be silenced & you need to safely wait for mana regen some time.

You might also want to check for any +hp item and wear them (check towns too). They are the most cost effective line of defense early game.

>>540145314
Apparently he's married with a kid. He used to show his face but stopped after getting a stalker or something.

On a separate note, is Elin worth playing? Or should I wait for it to cook more and keep playing Elona?

>>540147579
>Apparently he's married with a kid.
of course he's a fucking pedophile.

>>540147379
Congratuations! You've just put more thought into a description than the devs by considering it for more than 10 seconds!

>>540147994
He's catholic.

>>540148865
oh then it was a given

>>540147994
lol I guess I missed a comma

>>540148202
welp...

the unique nobody sucks in dcss, just a pain in the ass to run from

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only men know know what men want
foids could never understand

>>540147379
Simply, it doesn't.

If I plug a waffle iron into a wall and press the power button, it will then preform a service for me by becoming hot and then not being hot anymore. Being a "servant" merely requires that you are one who preforms service. Slaves are also servants, but servants may not be slaves. Any extra implications based around the justification of that station or the assumption that free will always leads to perfect or good-enough social hierarchies is a strained and biased implementation of personal philosophy.

However, it is clear they DO have autonomy. It says "inevitably", so we're meant to know that there is a conflict here with an inevitable conclusion. "created as servants" doesn't necessarily mean "created in the shape of perfect servants", it could simply mean "created with the purpose of being servants and existing in the servant role".

So, the mistake of the gods would be that they created a being with a specific purpose in mind while not caring at all about the free will of those servants.

Alternatively, if I simply accept your idea, then any servant would, given that they have the option to leave and autonomy, eventually leave when given enough time and life experience. The only objection in that case is "well how do you then say it was rebellion?"

Children have free will. Parents demand things of children and have desired behaviors for those children. When the child doesn't do what the parent wants, that's rebellion.

The ability to rebel does not imply that the child is a slave.

The bara are literally children spawned and given chores.

>which god
well, if they were spawned of a dark god, and then rejected those dark gods, then taht could imply that they are now basically angels who reject darkness.
Or, if neutral, then there may be something inherent to godhood and it's assosiations which is antithetical to

>>540151237

>which god
well, if they were spawned of a dark god, and then rejected those dark gods, then taht could imply that they are now basically angels who reject darkness.
Or, if they are spawned of a good god, and then they may have some spark of remaining power from that good god.
Or, if neutral, then there may be something inherent to godhood and it's associations which is antithetical to darkness. That makes pretty hefty implications as to what darkness even is.

In general, what is darkness, you think?

>>540117546
soon (tm)
>>540135126
Bandit encounters are unironically very difficult, in some ways more dangerous than attacking a Njerpez village (if you go at it prepared).
Running away is most of the time the best course of action. Always make sure that you can walk at 6km/h

>>540151237
>they were created as living portable light fixtures

>>540150835
skill issue.

All jokes aside, I managed to kill them in one try on an extremely OP build I had, but for most characters yeah there's just no way. I get self-insert OC vibes from Nobody. I haven't come across one yet, but the Void Dragons or Wormhole Dragon or whatever that got added seem even more insane

>>540144448
Archmage is dog shit, it just is one of the two (to... Five?) insane viable class because of exploits.

Even with the gutted melee shit, melee is still much stronger and scales better than *casters.

>>540153471
>insane viable
All classes are insane viable.
If you mean madness, archmage isn't madness viable anymore due to nerfs and random changes

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>Play Pyromaniac prestige in Achra
>Okay so I'll need to maximise my inflame stacks an-
>Find Agra Axe
>Win
This weapon is invariably fucking cracked everytime I get it. Almost feels like I cheated

>>540138463
>>540124021

oh yeah I meant to respond to this last thread
I hope that's the same video from last thread because what I wanted to say was "I'm gonna castrate you if you post that, what the fuck?"
That shit's worse than what you've been posting, you fuckin retard.
It's just some stream of consciousness rambling- You just have a fucking live crashout for like 7 minutes about "LE RPGS" and "LE VISIBLE NUMBERS??"
Nobody needs you to defend Traditional Roguelikes (petition to rename thread to /TRG/) (We'd have more fun on /tg/ anyways) from Roguelites, man.


...But if you're gonna do it anyways, please write an actual script with a deliberate structure and multiple takes, not just a cropped deluge of your stream of consciousness Twitch (or whatever) diarrhea.

Just utterly boneheaded namefagging; Trying to stick out because you're trying to stick out.
Farm views with content sloppa on your own channel. If you want to stalk an ancient graveyard community thread to post your videos in then post GOOD videos, please, not your fucking sub farm VLOG

he doesn't actually post roguelikes or care he's just been reposting that link for the last 6/7 years and leaving
he's the same as the guy that posts the asian thot but easier to filter

>>540151237
/thre-
Wait no, thread's too delicate to say that

Uh
>what this nigga said, ay yo muhfug bix nood

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>>540158241
>starts speaking the Nordic tongue
what did he mean by this

>>540156149
>Agra + Gold Plate
>Aslan for good measure
Yeah that'll do it, basically every time.
Keep pushing as long as you can think of new combos. Paying attention to the creatures in each location and scouring for build-enabling items (you should see every item, basically, throughout the game) oughta carry you to 32.
The only thing keeping this game going is thinking of new combos and conducts to try.

After all, any asshole can get a win as an Acolyte
But hardly anyone wins as an Acolyte

>>540151003
advertising girls with cocks

>>540157702
we should change it to /TRG/, rolls off the tongue better

>>540161420
>advertising girls with cocks
I have no idea what you mean

>>540161559
yes you do

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Thank you for all the responses Tome4 bros, I'm reading them carefully. I didn't realize that Archmage was considered so strong, I just happened to unlock it so I tried it out.

What's the point of skipping floors exactly? I still get EXP from the floors even if they're easy, so it seems like I should do them. Are enemy scaling up universally as I do this or is some doomsday clock ticking?

>>540147450
>You "missed" the boss, meaning you did a melee bump, which unfortunately is NOT recommended for caster classes since they effectively do 0 damage and have 0 accuracy.
Yeah, I think I'm stumbling about a bit blindly and ran into him looking for the stars. Successfully identifying enemies and navigating around them is something I'll have to get better at.

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>>540161737
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-rs_hlBlcM

>>540162004
>skipping floors
You shouldn't do this, but technically on Insane you can do this (very rarely) just to kill the area boss first since the randomly generated enemies are scarier.

>>540162237
Makes sense.
So, is it the case that I would want to, as a new character, go for every single 1-7 zone I can? Like Heart of the gloom -> Korpul -> norgo's lair -> rhaloren camp... etc... before ever moving onto 7-16? Well, I suppose there's nuance there, but what I mean is it seems to kind of make sense to try to maximize level in the easy 1-7 zones before moving up a tier.

>>540162598
Yes, this however is kind of a chore. You can speed up the process by putting 3 pts in Chain Lightning and mass autoexplore on the floors before the boss
If you manage your respec well the loss will be minimal.

>>540163048
Not gonna lie I always just press autoexplore even in dangerous new zones.

>>540134879
The realism starts wherever DDA's sanctioned gameplay starts. The devs literally implemented bethesda vendors into the game. It was always a farce and just a convenient excuse to dismantle Whales' original gameplay, which is to date way better than the garbage DDA implemented.

>>540163657
The realism stops wherever DDA's sanctioned gameplay starts*

>>540158241
thank god everyday i don't have black dick living in my brain like you autists

>>540164313
that's because it lives in your butt LMAO

>>540159108
Currently trying to get a win on every prestige, got a long while to go since I'm going in order and only just hit the fire ones after clearing the martial ones.
>as long as you can think of new combos
Trying not to repeat the same combo too many times is one of the harder parts. I had to try different things with the martial prestiges after I realised that Pugilism goes crazy well with anything that scales on number of hits

>>540139658
A badly built car is a lot more likely to kill you than any kind of carriage.

>>540166950
If you stand next to a car doing nothing for X amount of time, the car will never harm you.
If you stand next to a horse with a carriage for X amount of time, chances are the horse will bite or kick you.

>>540167924
Do us all a favor and prove your point by standing next to your idling car in an enclosed garage.

>>540163048
>>540162598
To be more clear, if you cheese your early points, you can completely set your build- Since you can take the last three points out, if you make it back to town without setting more than three points (respec the auto-assigned points when you FIRST start a run and the window opens automatically) you can avoid putting points in garbage.

Also, Archmage isn't "strong" so much as it used to have a specific broken build specifically letting it do the unfair difficulty.
It's- Well, shit, 5 years ago it was considered kind of mid, but it's easy to unlock and it's not /unfun/ necessarily.
Kind of had the same problems most mana-classes do, manasurge is mandatory so you have less room for ailment clear/shield/heal/movement infusions (your infusions/active item choices are just as important as your skill build, not getting a stun clear is like not wielding a weapon in any other roguelike desu)

>Get a new laptop
>Realise ToME on steam doesn't have cloud saves
>Have to re-unlock all the shit I previously unlocked
I really wanted to unlock things myself, but I might have to say fuck and get one of those unlock everything mods because fucking hell.

>>540170002
Unlocks are just some text file in appdata dude.

>>540167924
>if you stand next to a horse you'll die!!!
Starting to think TLG fans are not mentally stable

>>540168897
>Moving the goalpost from nothing to idling
>>540172051
>t.never been on a farm

>>540172051
I think the key point was "doing nothing". In other words, DDA is a good game as long as you never open the executable.

>>540172542
Horses idle.
If you want the goalpost to be nothing, then the horse needs to be dead in your example.

>>540172856
You should stop taking tylenol, you're autism is showing

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>>540172542
World's smartest DDAtranny ITT

this argument is intentionally retarded for fun right

>>540086696
I've been thinking about the autoexplore button a lot lately. It is pretty good tell that your game is designed poorly. When a player, instead of playing the game lets the AI play the game so he doesn't have to... yeah it is a pretty good indication.

>>540173004
The DDAfag realized he lost 1 post in and so he's just dragging the bar down to cope.

>>540172937
>horse muffler being all noisy
>car muffler quiet
hmmm

Also, if we're talking about the negative effects of being hotboxed with a car's exhaust, isn't the equivalent to be hotboxed with a horse's exhaust? Still seems like horses might be more dangerous.

>>540173004
Given how transphobic BNbabies are acting, I don't think they are pretending to be mentally incapable.

>>540173309
wasn't this you?
>>540166950

>>540173403
There are two claims in this discussion. One reasonable claim that badly made cars are more dangerous than carriages, and one retarded claim that cars as a rule are safe to be around.

guys I'm trying to ignore all DDA posts, please don't make it so hard for me

>>540173407
Getting offended just validates the insult.

As much as I love DDA over BN, BN has shots penetrate through zombies rather than being fully stopped. BN simply added realism that is fun, while DDA is still busy figuring out how to implement dust and locks.

>>540173538
Do you struggle that much with the absence of discord handles that you need to ask who is who?

>>540173407
>transphobic
Lol. Lmao even

>>540174487
it was a rhetorical question you moron

>>540174552
They really don't send their best anymore. Master wordsmith I_am_erk would never.

>>540174783
Overly transparent, dipshit.

>>540173026
>(you)
Explain what you think should be done to remove the autoexplore from DCSS, Brogue, TOME, Qud,
Does this include targeted auto-movement, i.e. select an explored square and automatically pathing to it?
What about using an explore button to explore seems like "not playing the game" to you? Isn't it just a shortcut to reveal more of the map? Doesn't the map still benefit from having a unique layout and doesn't the size still inform the tactics and strategies you can use?

How would you change the maps to make autoexplore unnecessary without limiting the mechanical gameplay elements?

>>540177180
If you could press the 'o' button while knowing exactly where it is going to place you, then it would be the same as pressing a numpad button or clicking on a square. As you don't know where you'll end up, you can not make a meaningful choice about where you end up, meaning that you can't use the information you've gained in order to make choices which improve your odds.

'o', then, is exclusively a button which decreases your odds of winning when you press it, from a mechanical perspective. From a human perspective, it increases your chance of winning, because NOT pressing 'o' and instead making good constant decisions about your pathing will be very low-yield in terms of attention paid vs positive results gained, which means that attention paid will continue to drop due to lack of reward, meaning that a player who doesn't press 'o' is likely to die of boredom.

The basic action of moving is, then, boring. Optimal movement is maximally boring, and results in loss because of that.

Meanwhile, 'o' brings your character directly to the next meaningful object, but even then you're going to ignore more than 50% of object on the ground. Often, this meaningful object is a creature, and you're not in the ideal position to handle whatever threat that creature will represent.

In a perfect game, mechanically optimal play is also maximally fun. So, the act of moving itself should be fun.
This is a massive challenge which games often struggle with. Platformers and rhythm games have the best answers here, though minesweeper and such puzzle games are honorable mentions which are relevant to such tile-based games.

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This run is something else. 5+ Neutron Flux drinks in a row and no blowing up, but 8+ Drops of Nectar rolling the "Nothing Happens" instead of the +1 to all stats.
At least I got a free Gamma Moth friend to help me roll for mutations and like 3 Seekers to rob Sphynx Salt from. Also, did you guys know the 1.0 updated DID give us a new cybernetic? Its a 8 license point costing Multi-Purpose Optical Scanner, Bio-Mechanical-Structer-Item identification all in one!
Its not a mecha-scorpion tail, but it'll do.

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>>540169541
Thanks for the tips, though right now I'm not going out of my way to look up class guides and so am embracing the garbage

>>540178321
Autoexplore is caused by excessively large maps.
Autofight is caused by excessively weak enemies.
Make every level 80x40, make every enemy an elite, and both problems are solved.
There's really no reason to cram so much filler into a game if the player isn't even going to play through it.

Alternatively if you make the levels infinite in size and thee enemies infinite in number the autoexplore is also not needed. Most of the time I'm using it just to make sure I checked everything and got all the items, if it's impossible to get everything and instead there's just a conscious weighing of using resources in the current level vs diving deeper then you'd have to think more about your movement.

It's interesting that I'm addicted to autexplore in DCSS and view the game as unplayable without it, yet I don't use it at all in Sil or other *bands and instead constantly dive as fast as possible, which also automatically solves the popcorn enemy problem.

Am I retarded, or does TLG make it much more difficult to get a reach weapon? Pipe spear doesn't seem to be a basic bitch craft anymore and I swear I'm not seeing any young trees to grab long sticks

>>540181987
Not true. Cdda does not have auto-explore, and wouldn't work with it. Therefore, map size does not cause autoexplore.

Also, if you decrease the number of enemies to the point where every enemy is an individual threat, you also change the functionality of stealth and the experience of groups of enemies. Less room means less room in which to separate out enemy groups, which means that one of the primary aspects of survival in the game is removed through this suggestion, because weak enemies also provide interest.

Tab has the effect of doing a repeated action without having to target a specific tile with that specific action. This means that tab is caused by the need to simplify the attack operation, meaning it is caused by needing to attack to many times. Case and point, I still press tab when I'm brezerked against a very strong enemy, or after I've set them up with whatever spells or items I've chosen to used.

Theory slightly off. Needs 5 more minutes in the oven. No, I have not already thought of the correct answer. godspeed

>as you progress the number of useful map features decreases rapidly
>as your travel distances and loot stash accumulate in size your saves become increasingly bloated and cumbersome
How do you fix this? So far DDA only makes it worse by adding immense amounts of irrelevant junk to the map.

>>540183008
Did you completely miss the part where he mentioned "if you make levels infinite in size?"

>playing CDDA:TLG
>suddenly screen gets buttfucked by a gorillion "&&&&&&&&" spam everywhere I can see
>think I went blind for unknown reasons
>is actually some fog bullshit that Undead People tileset can't handle
>mfw
Is there a fork of UDP that does handle fog?

>>540178321
So is it the pathing then, that you really have a problem with?
Trivially we can imagine a briefly configurable auto-explore which can make a number of simple decisions based on some basic details, which you can switch on the fly if you want-

I assume you'd prefer to hew to corridors and carefully peek around corners, in some fashion? Or some other behavior- Whatever it is, the auto-explore could achieve it, if you think that monster reveals routinely put you in a much worse place than you would've ended up in on your own?

You're sacrificing towing capacity and cab-size and horsepower for some platonic ideal of aerodynamic, I think.

>>540181987
There's no point to just saying these statements without building any case for that to be so. Perhaps autoexplore is a necessary feature of the exactly right-sized maps, perhaps autofight lets you handle the perfectly balanced curve of enemies?
Angband handles XP and character/level/gear progression overall much differently than DCSS, Qud, Tome, Brogue (and these are all vastly different to each other).

This is uh... Some kind of fallacy, I dunno.
Just because you've decided autoexplore is bad doesn't mean that whatever causes it is also somehow bad.

>>540185802
>Some kind of fallacy
begging the question, affirming the consequent

>>540185802
Hypothetically, if 'o' DID offer odds identical to the odds you got from manually pathing, then there would be two possable results.

1. The player presses 'o', meaning that the action of moving around the map is not as good as letting the game do that part for you, and the correct movement options are knowable ahead of time, to the degree that they can be automated using simple settings. In this case, some part of gameplay is filler, not meaningful from the human perspective, and whatever job they are doing should be done with as little time and information as possible.

2. The player does not press 'o', meaning that a human still wouldn't prefer to skip this content, meaning that it contains a significant amount of the enjoyment which the player is looking for.

If some part of the game does not touch on the ideas which are engaging about the game, then that part is being tolerated in order to get to the actual point.
Like, imagine if every time you moved a rook in chess, you first had to read the first 50 digits of pie, but you also had a button that skipped that part. At that point, why have the button, and why do the pie thing.

note, however, that in reality people are also rather impatient, and often patience is necessary in the formation of relevant and enjoyable moments. Not every moment is a crescendo, and a massive portion of the point of DCSS is learning where and how to exercise caution and foresight. 'o' is a very annoying trap, and people are annoyed that it got them.

>>540185802
You can't disprove an opinion. Autoexplore and autofight are boring and I don't like using them, but the games where they exist are even worse without them.
That's objectively true regardless of whether you like them or not.
I proposed solutions based on other games I've played where I felt no need/desire to use them. So far that list is InfraArcana, Sil, Angband, and Brogue. Brogue even has an autoplay which combines the two and literally plays the game for you(I actually use this for the first floor, but only to scum for vault items)

In IA and brogue there's little/no combat exp so there's little/no reason to explore after getting vault items, *bands let you grind infinitely and have infinite loot. Both brogue and IA have very strict exploration timers encouraging rapid diving, and *bands have no timers at all besides your resources.
Both result i a heavy desire to dive instead of explore, placing you in an environment surrounded by high level potential insta kill enemies where you carefully sneak around between staircases only fighting if you can pull of an ambush or grab some loot and escape. There's no punishment for leaving floors unexplored, unlike in DCSS where you'll get assraped diving because the the skill/item balance being tuned for picking up everything not nailed to the floor and killing every enemy you see.

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How am I doing so far?

>>540141561
bosses are always overleveled relative to you, it's how they're programmed on every difficulty
at level 8 you should be able to thrash the rhaloren inquisitor as an archmage
flameshock cuts their damage in half
tidal wave + ice shards can put them in an iceblock so they can't even attack you until you break it
temporal shield should be enough to tank every talent they can throw at you
manasurge rune gives you enough uptime to
cycle all of these spells and your turn-by-turn blasting (augur, manathrust, flame, lightning, ect.)
oh and you could also have time prison and a movement infusion as oh shit buttons to basically make sure you never die
the only real threat in their aresenal is soul rot and you can actually bait that out and dodge it manually
if you get access to a charm like summon tentacle it can block the shot for you too

>>540180692
Track (the third skill in Cunning/Survival) is an amazing survival tool as it reveals you all enemies around you including the ones outside of LoS.
If you keep finding yourself in unwinnable situations, spending some points on Track (or its equivalent) might be a very good idea.
You don't need it on Normal and even Nightmare is manageable without it, but it's still a very good pick. Doubly so if you're scaling Cunning.

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I completely forgot you're supposed to move around crowds when you're playing for the Wu Tang Clan, I ended up clearing a room with only 20 HP by calling the Jackie Chan clouds and walking around the crowd instead of trying to fight them one by one.
Not gonna lie, that was actually pretty exciting and I'm looking forward to the Vaults 4 party now.

>>540190989
I always forget about the walljump too, it's very useful.

>>540191312
yeah, helps you to get out of corners, but I was stuck in the middle of a mob in the open field so I had to dance around them while popping the skulls of 2-3 guys per turn. I can't believe I lived through that, now I hope I don't splatter before I get to do it again.

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>>540191545
Like, this shit just happened all in a single turn.
I became the motherfucking Fist of the North Star holy shit.
I'm starting to like the Wu Tang Clan a lot.

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uh...thats gay

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This is why I hate this fucking game. If I had fucking known I had scrolls of identity, I would have known what the fuck any of this shit did.

>>540192410
When in doubt, risk it out.

>>540189387
Looks like a good start, make sure you get a source of poison resist soon, and chuck those items on an altar

>>540180692
combat veteran is the worst skill tree in the game
warcries is mediocre, superiority is shit, and bloodthirst is the berserker's defining tree with Unstoppable being one of the most powerful survival skills in the entire game
first skill is nice too as it gives crit and daze application
Berserker Rage gives you 50% stun res at lvl 4 which is one of the most invaluable things you can have, and the crit chance can come in handy
stun res egos are relatively common on rings so you can easily get that to 100% giving you effective immunity against stuns unless that number is lowered in some way
stuns are the most debilitating conditions you can get aside from like an iceblock or sleep, or a silence if you're a caster
lvl 3 rush isn't bad as a gap closer but voidstalker cloaks are just as good and don't require skill investment
you want more range and uptime on warshout confusion + brainlock are potent things to inflict on the enemy especially as fights drag on
in my experience Berserker has dogshit damage and while it can usually kill most things within 3-7 turns you'll constantly be finding exceptions
1 point in execution is nice for the guaranteed crit and extra damage that outpaces fearless cleave at 79-60% max life

>>540192631
already died. fire ants

>>540192281
>>540192410

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>>540192631
I also had poison resist due to being barbarian.

>>540187613
Filler? That's structure, that's texture.
Air in bread isn't filler. Lettuce in a sandwich isn't filler.
Concrete around rebar isn't a "filler"
At least not in the... Anime-got-past-the-manga, stretch for time, sawdust in the soup worthless garbage meant to disguise nutritional deficiency sense.

Engaging with the game is engaging with the game. Maybe you're better than that, but new players still get tripped up by those popcorn monsters- Filler for you is what someone else cuts their teeth on. Would you just start DCSS at the entrance to lair, with your pile of early game loot laid out, XP allocated however you want, free to skip past the (admittedly light) constraint of having to clear the first levels with what you have?

>>540188345
You can let Brogue path and bump for you if you want, sure. If you're going to scum for loot anyways instead of try to earnestly win every run, maybe just wizmode whatever item you think you deserve this run.

If you want more tactical and strategic depth, you need larger maps. You can't reduce it to a series- What, 3x3 tilesets? Whatever corners, pillars, walls and corridors we'd end up with trying to compress Brogue so much further that there was NEVER a point where "walk down this corridor for me" was a useful feature?
That's a corridor I can back track down, lure bloats into, set fire to, stealth in and split enemies up with.

Just because it preserves my willpower to not press a movement key
and check that no doors or monsters or rooms have appeared
and press a movement key
and check that no doors or monsters or rooms have appeared
and press a movement key
and so on, doesn't make auto-explore "bad"

It's not inherently wrong for some portions of playing the game to be trivial, *particularly* when they support a non-trivial aspect of the gameplay.

>>540192784
Yeah, they're a pretty reliable way to die early on. Fire resist is a bit harder to get than poison. You might have held them off with the E-word.

>>540192913
Oh right, it's been a while since I Nethacked and Barb wasn't my usual class

>>540184360
no, fog is an experimental thing added by TLG and as such only tilesets wormgirl approves for TLG have it.

DoomRL doesn't neither needs auto-explore nor auto-combat.
That's how you design a combat-focused roguelike.

>>540188345
That you don't use IA's auto-explore feature is criminal desu.
It's full of windy single-tile corridors and it stops if the path diverges too far from the direction you told it to go or if any truly actionable information comes up.
You don't use the auto function here because you want to scrape every last bit of the floor, but because it's just monotonous not to do so. You lose nothing teleporting down a 9 tile hallway to a closed door, minus some shock.
If you were going to change your mind halfway down the hall without a monster or item or door/branching path revealing itself, then you made a suboptimal play with that first input press, whether it was 4 or shift+4.

You can dislike autoexplore, you can refuse to be reasoned out of your disdain for it, sure. But that doesn't mean that anything that comes after it is faulty. The consequences you're insisting upon, such that autoexplore could not be useful, would warp the games to unrecognizable messes and leave vast gaping design space untapped- Anytime a map is big enough that autoexplore is convenient, it's a bad game? I can't abide

>>540193164
I didnt expect them to be dangerous so lesson learned.

>>540189387
You don't know the helm is uncursed, kill yourself, blind yourself with a cream pie and kill yourself you clown, this run is doomed
:^)
Be careful anon. New moon out tonight.

>>540193789
>You don't know the helm is uncursed,
I used pet method to figure out.

>>540190736
Seconded, Track may be one of the strongest tools for understanding what's going on in the game. Nevermind giving you an idea of where enemies you haven't seen are, figuring out Tome's wonky ass AI/movement speed is a nightmare.

Not as bad as Qud's "I HAVE to obscure the enemy's fixed AV/DV from the player unless they give up a third of their utility slots" though.
Like I said, Tome actually gives you some knowledge you wouldn't have otherwise; Qud literally just taxes you for not memorizing by rote a thousand arbitrary stats or tediously grinding item IDs in the first third of the game.

>>540193639
Oh I use automove all the time, I think of it as distinct from autoexplore though, there's a big difference between walking down a hallway an =d doing a grid search of the whole floor.

>>540193554
JH absolutely needs autoexplore.
I know I'm not the only one mashing my way down some of those early hallways- Sure, I have to nut up in a branch or during an event but fuck's sake do I not want to carefully press "go right" 34 times to get across a (nearly) empty map.
Just because a demon might jump out and shoot me dead in 5 turns before I can react, though, I get taxed? That's the kind of thing a script should do- Go over there unless something actionable happens.
I can't sit here with my dick in a hand giving every single movement on an empty, silent map wondering if a wandering shotgunner is gonna LOS me from a corner.

>>540194602
>there's a big difference
...See you in the morning, anon's
I'm going to bed early, I'm too old for this shit

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I got teleported into this room with lots of gold. Then suddenly a guard came in. Am I fucked?

>>540086696
switched to porn because it was easier to explain

>>540194836
>JH absolutely needs autoexplore.
What difficulty?
I feel that UV has high enough enemy saturation where you basically never just "go", starting with the opening level (the same as DoomRL).
I don't play on N! because I fucking suck at not full-clearing, but from the few attempts I did, any form of auto-explore would be absolutely suicidal there.

There is a couple of static levels where you might end up walking for quite a bit before actually engaging with the mechanic, but that's the absolute "worst" it gets and we're still talking about 30~40 turns of just walking three~four times throughout the entirety of the game. And it unironically helps to build tension.

>>540195128
Vaults have teleporters into them, sometimes, yeah.
Gold or other goodies inside.
Spend too long in the vault and you get got by the guard spawning.
There are no secret doors to leave. He just made that hole in the wall to kill you, you need to be able to dig or teleport out or something.

>>540195885
Its fine. I dropped gold and he escorted me out. Then I quffed from a fountain and spawned a water demon. Yes, Im dead now.

>>540193673
Yeah killer bees, soldier ants, and fire ants are common early run-enders. If you can handle those, you can start to get your character prepped for the really bad shit below. Nethack is largely about learning what's dangerous, and acquiring an arsenal of ways to escape or nullify specific threats, and knowing how and when to employ each.

>>540195128
Drop all your gold and he'll escort you out.

>>540195969
Oh yeah, fountains are an important lesson about risk management. You can get some amazing stuff from it, but it's dangerous and you shouldn't mess with them until you can handle the risks.
Though I'll still drink from one if it's early and looks like my run is gonna go badly anyway, like if I had to come back up because I can't survive something on a lower floor, and rather than just die of boring things I'll try for that slim chance of getting a wish. But that's an almost-never situation for me now.

>>540178321
Good post. Great, even.

>>540192642
Damn, that's funny. Thanks for the tips, I adjusted my play.
I was dubious about HP regen being good or not but I was trying to go full raw survivability after getting melted on archmage.

>>540207610
not the other guy, but if you want to get a hang of tome the it's recommended to start with archer
Most melees in tome4 are hard to learn esp in higher difficulties when enemies can randomly 1 shot you. Archmage is strong, but has a bit of knowledge check.
For archer you can just take utility skills (most attack skills can be ignored, just use basic attack), shoot people and walk away with Escape (class tree)/Mobility tree talents while tanking people wearing robes with Trained Reaction (Mobility Tree)
It also trains you to play tome the intended way, to stay the fuck out of melee range

>>540208041
Damn, if the intended way is to stay out of melee ranges then the melee classes sure feel out of place, don't they?

>>540209549
Melee classes are still viable up to Insane, but the learning curve is steep. The main advantage of melee is that properly built, they will one turn most enemies, even the final bosses.
Also even if you are strong you still have to identify the 1% mobs that will one shot you from the 99% trash mobs while half asleep.
It is easier to learn by playing ranged.

>>540209768
Ah. The difficulty dynamic is pretty interesting in this game, like the idea of things not being viable on Insane or Madness. Is Madness really THAT hard?

>>540075083
Thanks for the reccs, Thaum and Orcish Fury are great! I still gotta play the other two you recommended.

For me, when it comes to 7DRLs, I really love Trash-80 Rogue. Superheroes are an underserved theme for roguelikes, IMO.
I once had a guy who rolled up Teleport and Ground Pound powers, and BAMFing around sending crowds of enemies flying was fun as hell.

>>540209853
Everything is viable on Insane.
Madness is playable by like a few classes, but you need to be ultra autistic about game knowledge, have a good build and tactic (i.e. playing very safe) to get there. And even then it's like a multi week endeavour (1 insane run takes like 2 days for comparison). Currently there's like 1 guy left who is this good, but he's moved onto other games.
The game frankly wasn't built for Madness, numbers are too large that most classes will die to trash mobs.

>>540210110
That's pretty based.

>>540208041
There's definitely non-random bosses that can one shot most characters in melee range like the assassin lord and the reknor boss and gnarr's windblade attack. Some melees are glass cannons or need gucci gear to perform (wyrmic, arcane blade) but I'd say Shadowblade is one of the easiest classes. Lots of teleports, good CC for a high damage class and deals with mages better than anti-mages. Also Brawler is almost unkillable on normal difficulty.

>>540210110
More games need retardedly hard difficulties that the game isn't designed to support. Shit that demands 100% optimized play and player skill to match.

Are horses actually useful outside of pulling wagons in TLG? CDDA really annoyed me with how horses could barely even carry a rider with a heavy coat, but they had no problems pulling my loaded up mobile base

>>540213403
You got it wrong, TLG and DDA are car-centric games. While BN is a walkable game that allows for horse drawn carriages

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>playing Shapeshifter
>clear the whole Dungeon, Lair and Orchish Mines and no other talisman but the ones that I have from the start spawned
>have to clear Swamp and Spider Nest with my only transformations being a 1d8 counter (sometimes) and a bug form with -rpois

>>540214989
>play minotaur berserker
>death form drops on d4
>statue form drops on d8
>not a single axe though
>still using a +0 hand axe post Lair
The game is purposely designed to fuck you.

Doing tainted unlocks in Isaac and I don't know if I've ever come across more miserable and hateful content willfully put into a game by a developer. If these shitholes didn't have unlocks stapled to them NOBODY would play any of them save for like 3.

Edmund truly, and I mean it when I say this, a tragically retarded moron who got luckier than every lotto winner put together to not be working in a Home Depot parking lot. World's worst mexican mind.

>>540217314
Whenever I play a stabber I never see the Dith altar at the Temple.
If I was a bit more mentally unstable I'd wager this shit's rigged from the start.

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>>540217524
Hey buddy, you've got the wrong door. The /indie/ leather club is 2 blocks down.

>>540217819
>roguelike vs roguelite autism
oh no. people worse than edmund

>>540217991
Yep, now get out.

>>540217656
There's definitely something fucky going on. I was just trying out a few monk runs and consistently got like 5 times the number of enemies on D1 as usual. Like I was hitting level 4 by D2, whereas a fighter by comparison was lucky to get one level per floor.
Seriously I'd walk into a room and there'd be two bats, five goblins, a quokka, 3 hob goblins, and 2 pythons. And this happened two or three times per floor.
Not to mention I found not one, not two, but THREE orbs of light! An item I've literally never seen before on any of my runs of any other character.

>>540218065
Hades is the best roguelike ever made.

Any other games out there that have combat like DF? The whole system of picking your strikes, grappling, and freedom in weapon choice feels like I'm playing through D&D combat encounters rather than being constrained within a vidya.

>>540218105
Talking about unusual items, I've been splatting runs all day and only once I saw a new brand in an armor, a brand I've never seen before. It was called Command or something like that, it's supposed to make Summons more powerful, or something like that.
I might have to make a summoner later to see if I can find it with !aq or something.

>>540218304
I've had so many people recommend Hades and jerk themselves off about it that I hate the game despite never having played it.

>>540218815
it's shit gameplay; amazing presentation for its pricepoint

Can you repair armor in Unreal World?

>>540192281
F

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feel good

>>540219048
Yeah, but I bet Silksong beats it out, and I'm not even a fan of the series.

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Damn, Dreadfell was tough. I got totally fucked again and again despite mostly cruising up to this point. I guess this is where my shit build caught up to me (and yeah I know I should have pressed the invuln button I thought I wouldn't die that turn.) Pretty fun though, felt cool to get that far into a roguelike, I usually die much earlier.

Any good roguelike Metroidvanias? I've been spoiled by Super Metroid since I was a babby, and nothing quite comes close to it.

>>540221960
Try Nethack. It's more on the castlevania side of the genre though.

>>540218304
>Hades is the best roguelike ever made.
For me, it's Madden NFL

>>540087958
How do I git gud at the combat?

>>540229310
Fighting is like hunting an elk, you want your opponent to be collapsing from exhaustion
The main difference is that you're the one running away and they can kill you on a lucky hit
You can also make some good cheese by boxing yourself in the middle of trees with your cow and shooting through the trees, but the chance of getting brained by an arrow through your eye is always there

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im so sick of it. Does metamorphic make it so Drops of Nectar don't work??? But why would Mutating Gaze and Neutron Flux work then? Why would Becoming Nooks work? Surely I won the 1 in 4 chance once but I can't remember it... Its been 12+ nectars and I still get nothing and its been 8+ Fluxes and I still get it in one.

>>540211784
Seconded, this is what I was thinking.
Take ye olde basick Cornac Shadowblade out for a spin. Plenty of escapes and healing and defensives. Understandable but not boring gameplay (You mean if I'm invisible... I can sneak attack???!)

>>540217314
I swear before I played a Sh I hadn't seen a flux bauble and now I get a handful on D:2
Or it's always on, like, Alchemist I'll see a half-dozen scrolls "Mephitic Vapors" "Olgreb"

>>540221863
Can't believe you're going through all your lives that quick, anon.
What killed you last time?

>>540221863
You got temporal warden, it's a very strong class that can use both bow and dual wield.
A simple way to play is to unlock the Temporal Hound tree, max the dogs, 1 point in dog teleport (or more if you like). Then run around, throw dogs at enemies while you shoot them to death with bows (manual shoot works just fine). Rest of the points is up to you.

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>>540233456
Flux only has like a 10% chance to implode you, mind- Nectar drops definitely work on perma-dominated targets and when you're metamorphed, as well.
But also, yeah, it's only a 25% chance for the nectar drops to hit, so you're gambling to get a 50% bonus (1.5 attributes average per stick) and hoping you don't low roll into poverty.

You can't advance that randomized track at all, except by eating nectar drops, either. No precog or reroll or nothin.
Skill issue desu.

>>540221863
Couple basic tips to keep you alive.

1. Runes and inscriptions, you seem to go into blink/tele for disengage. Decent Idea but they are random so they can fuck you up. Pick up movement infusion and test it out.

2. Status effects, While damage of course is scary usually you die becasue enemy puts several status effects on you, so you can't kill them fast enough, can't move, are blind and so on. Check what does debuffs do to you when you get them, and consider some ways to rpevent them or cleanse them. For example Shatter affliction rune cleanses all types of debuffs.

3.You can right click on some skills and check off "Always use out of combat" because for example some mobs can disable your sustained talents like rage you don't notice and go into next combat weaker.

5.There is zone order progression on wiki, it's good for a first win, later on you get the idea what enemies are in each zone so you get to pick where to go first.

6.Berserker is not a good starting class imo since you go all in. I can see you unlocked a Temporal Warden you may try him it's one of the strongest classes in the game plus it plays cool.

7. For now you playing on normal so you don't need to know precisely how all the stats work but feel free to ask.

>>540231570
How do I hit them properly? I got like 55% skill with the sword and I can't hit them consistently

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>>540235774
I actually died 4 times in a row in those two floors of Dreadfell I think. I didn't entirely realize enemies would full-heal when I came back so some elite monster thing killed me twice - something which came from a chest, which I now realize are extremely deadly. And then I died twice to the pictured thing trying to floor dance.
>>540235973
Coincidentally I immediately started a Warden run, though I decided not to do dogs at first. Will definitely try to do that next time. Honestly this game feels kind of fucking amazing. See the Threads is one of the coolest skills in any game and it's incredible starting a new class and just reading talents for hours. I rarely actually enjoy the act of playing roguelikes (DCSS always felt like a chore, Nethack was an enigma, etc) but TOME is just fun. Though Smashing level 7 zones at level 10+ on Normal is a bit dull and time consuming.
>>540239581
Sounds good. I don't have a great mental image of "moving multiple times in one turn" but it seems strong. It's pretty crazy how inscriptions let every class have really powerful mobility and cleanse.

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>>540239085
guess who got a legendary eater's nectar cloned like 4 times AND got a drop of nectar to work

>>540246837
>I didn't entirely realize enemies would full-heal when I came back
Haaa, that's gotten me a couple times back in the day, yeah.

Yeah, the level disparity is kind of... Man, I get exactly what you mean because like the other anon said, you CAN skip the level but all you do is cheat yourself out of a (little) bit of (heavily scaling) XP and a TON of item rolls.

The game is well built in that you have like... You only need to clear maybe 65-70% of the on-level content at any given point to make it to the next tier and that's a great design for letting you go "I can't fight this fucking rare, get me out" or "This dungeon gimmick will kill this character, go next"
But searching for items and scraping up the last few levels of XP (And the breakpoints in lategame can be insane, you'll find) is tedious. If the area is easy enough I can stroll through it, then gimme the loot, game.

>>540247507
I'm straight polygel-pilled man I'm an Eater Nectar Relic-cel, I got gamma juice on my keyboard I'm straight gamma juicing it rn, 10 drams of Sunslag in me.
Shorty chose to be with a demon, sounds like her problem to me. I'll resist anything, I'm here to spit in the face of God you stupid piece of shit.

Have fun puching the Girsh in the face, anon. You earned it.

>>540248931
Saad Amus stopped a god once and he will do it again

Is it me or has there been an influx of newshitters ?

>>540246837
it's basicallly lets move like 5 tiles before enemy gets a turn, then they get a turn and than again you move 5 tiles. it's strong because you can chose exactly where to go. So usually the shortest path to block LOS. Once you block LOS you may retreat further to heal.

>>540243689
Sacrifice a golden brooch in a fire on a rock in a heart shaped lake at midnight on the summer solstice while wearing only wooden socks to increase your odds of hitting
If any wild animal sees the ritual, the spell will backfire horribly btw

>>540117546
URW has been "in development" for like three decades and it still lacks any crafting system above the bare bones, so don't hold your breath.

>>540221863
How close is Tales of the Maj'Eyal to Elona? I looked it up and apparently Elona was inspired by that game and ADOM just with more japanese flavor and humor.

>>540249860
probably from that Elin video essay from a kinda popular youtuber

>>540249860
I come and go and I don't really pay attention to this thread too much, there aren't really many roguelikes playing outside of Elona and Elin as well as a lot of old ones like C:DDA, DF, Cave Soup, and the litany of Rouge clones.

>>540256179
worth playing*

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>>540251726
That sounds like complete made up bullshit but I wouldn't be surprised it that was part of the actual game.

>>540254456
They bear some angband-style resemblances, namely an overwold map that you navigate to get to specific dungeons, and a recall spell that lets you teleport out of dungeons once you've beaten them. Other than that, they have extremely little in common.

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>>540249110
>Saad Amus
>is hidden under a ton of rock

>>540260130
kek

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Literally got the game an hour ago and had a blast so far. First run died pretty quickly but this is my second character and it's hilarious to purposely seek out getting surrounded by enemies because my dude spitted out insane whirlwind blender attacks.

>>540126896
On enemies you're likely to run into in Dungeon, you can use doors to escape from
>early jackals
>killer bees and hornets
>unseen horrors
>hydras
>yaks
>elephants
>boulder beetles
>snakes (adders, water moccasins etc)
>frogs
Which are like most of the annoying OOD spawns that can kill you early

>>540274030
Also slimes don't open doors, they eat them. Which is worse. Maybe you have trouble finding doors because of this

>>540274030
Oooh, Unseen Horrors, yeah
Now that you mention it that's my number one use case
It's practically subconscious reflex at this point, if I take inexplicable damage in the middle of an "empty" room, to hoof it to a door

>>540267753
Time to push up those cycles. You can get a build to do a LOT more crazy interactions on higher difficulties.

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My luck in this run has been incredible, I got Aiglos and Arvedui's chainmail from a couple of yeek uniques. While my mage isn't exactly a melee beast Aiglos does provide some very nice resistances and stat boosts, and is also an overall nice weapon, Arvedui's chainmail also provides some very nice AC, some strength sta boosts and lots of resistances, including nexus and shards. It does reduce my SP a little bit but I think it's a trade-off I'm willing to accept.

My goal right now is to get to a depth where I can start grinding stat potions, I would like to max out my constitution and intelligence as soon as possible. As my first run as a mage in Angband, I must say, they really are powerful, Reveal Monsters and Teleport Other makes it very easy to pick your fights, from what I've read it only gets better once you get the dungeon books and unlock Banishment and Mass Banishment, so I'm looking forward to that, assuming I survive until that point.

Qud would be a way better game if it had a time limit. Or at least make certain parts of the main quest harder if you go extremely long on time. I hate standing around and waiting for shops to respawn, but that is optimal gameplay because there is no time limit.

>>540292562
Play a mutant and you won't need gear so badly.
Worst case scenario is true man tinker, the entire game becomes a shopping simulator and your only reward for progression is access to higher tier shops.
Though you run into the opposite problem as a mutant, almost all the items you find are worthless and you only really want/need consumables and exp.
I think the whole split, while thematic and interesting, significantly degrades the experience. You'll have way more fun if you exploit your way into having mutations AND cybernetics.

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Well, I got to the master with most of my lives, but he is a menace. I think my build is simply too bad. I already spent 20 minutes chipping Borfast down; I can't touch this guy. And he instantly does 3/4th of my hp from range. I think I got pretty shit weapon luck, I barely saw more than a couple tier 2 bows/arrows, and had to buy some from the shop, but the main fault would definitely be in my shitty building, but that's OK since I went in yoloing the class.

>>540295749
This motherfucker also gated my Brawler the first time I played. I ended up roaming the whole map in hopes I could find better equipment and then I went back to it.

>>540296649
I guess I'll do that too, but also for EXP. I avoided some shitty places like the spell burn desert zone. It's probably a fantasy, but showing up at level 31 or 32 might make a huge difference.

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>>540280772
Kek you're right, the next one was absolutely disgusting on how it fried about everything on sight and sometimes killed everything on map before I could act. Getting into melee was basically impossible unless it was a boss and when I did my electrobirb unleashed like over 9000 attacks. Red axe basically made this run, constant healing on every enemy dying on a glasscannon was nice.

>>540295737
You say this but I just ferried a water weep back and forth about 20 times to get 40lbs of tumbled jewels and ended up buying a Zetachrome Lune
That and moving from steel axes to Zetachrome daggers (Tilli is very impressed by how hard I can jump) is insane clown damage)

I guess I could've just learned to proselytize by now, but this was Susa prep and I don't wanna fight the lower level.

I'm gonna struggle real hard when I get to a run where I don't skip whole tiers, I think, but it honestly feels like fighting Goatfolk for carbide gear is more dangerous than just strapping on flight/compass/wayfinding and going to Yd/Ezra

Unlike anon over there, though, I think this is fine- Though I'd welcome a GOOD change to this kind of behavior. Scumming shops and scouring zones for gear is a roguelike classic. More of a *band thing imo, but I dunno. Proselytizing is so iconic and powerful I'd hate to see it go but... It doesn't feel good for the longterm health of the game.

Neither does being eternally fuckin poor because of low ego, either, though. Kind of a shitty way to go. Even wearing a bunch of other people's faces can't fix how egregious the markup feels, imo... Even if you're tinkering up hand-e-nukes, the challenge turns into finding a merchant that can give you low-weight wealth in absolute clownworld quantities.

>>540303406
The thing is, most of the gear is kinda meaningless.
I once beat the spire using only a force bracelet, a backpack full of chem cells, and an overloaded laser pistol. I tested out a bunch of other random shit I found all over the place, but that was really just for fun and honestly not that effective.

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>>540303406
Speaking of insane clown economy- Now I've got THREE drams of cloning draught for the polygel unga train, yippee.

>>540306161
Yeah, I mean... I know what you /mean/ generally

(I mean not really this is like the second time I've seen someone brag about "beating the spire" arbitrarily but like... There's literally JUST a cherub fight up there? An optional one, and those guys are randomized, right? If they can't deglaze your forcefield- possibly the strongest item in the game while we're talking about it -then it's over. Unless you mean climbing the tomb which, again, optional cherub fight and a bunch of creatures which mostly ignore you/can't crack a forcefield)

There's a fistful of things in the game that make it a cakewalk, from Reverse Golgotha and Tomb Tunneling to forcefield bracer making you invulnerable to all but like... Maybe ten enemies, explosive attackers and mental mutants, nevermind that and flight letting you recoil/worldmap mid-combat.

I guess it's a matter of burnout, once you're spoilered on everything. It's noticeable that some items are more or less rare in some runs, I guess, dealing with the rare interesting reputation lineup, and getting one type of loot. There's not many choices to be made for... Winstreaking, I guess. Closer to an RPG than a roguelike

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>>540300710
On cycle 19 myself, how important healing is is something I'm still not sure of, healing on kill or on a god prayer you want to preserve charges of doesn't help against King of Many Colors or the obelisk bosses, most of which stack several thousand damage of status effects if I can't kill them in 2 turns.
Naked shield man was hard to get off the ground because samnite is a bad prestige and life skills don't have much to offer if you're not all in on plants but when it came to fight KOMC Beith Nocht triggered near infinite counter attacks and chunked him in a single 30 second turn

>>540307887
I mean that's ALL I used. I got the force bracelet and laser pistol in Joppa and did the entire main quest all the way through the spire just with that and nothing else. At the time that was the entire game.
And as a mutant you can literally start the game with an equivalent setup.
Now obviously it's an overpowered meme combo, but all the other stuff I tried either didn't work or was equally trivializing.
Eventually I came to the conclusion that the fundamental combat gameplay is really shallow and uninteresting, and all the gear that just lets you do/take more damage basically does nothing but gatekeep progression.
The entire point of the game is combining weird stupid shit, and it's kinda fun while you're doing that, but you either trivialize and remove the combat in the process, or else are eventually stuck back hacking things with a vibroblade.

It's a very fun game to learn about, but gets boring when you actually play it as a game.

>>540274030
also you can still benefit from closing doors even for enemies that can open them. Every time you close it, they have to waste a turn opening it, which you can then close it again, and this goes into an indefinitely long loop of
"you close door"
"the x opens the door"
"you close door"
"the x opens the door"
and you can do this until you're back at full Hp/Mp and then resume the fight. I do this literally all the fucking time especially since pillar dancing has been removed and Attacks of Opportunity make it suicidal to try walking away

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Just finished clearing every branch but the Hells, Tomb and Pan in DCSS trunk.
Trying my best to find the Dragon Form amulet, but the best I have is Sphinx Form and after clearing Zot 5, Statue Form.
I ain't even mad, Sphinx's been clearing absolutely everything and the shoutitis hasn't been that much of a problem, it even helped a lot since it confuses monsters sometimes. The other reason I don't mind it much is because I've been using the Heavenly Cloud ability of the Wu-Tang Clan whenever I want to clear the whole floor, and it makes enough noise to keep the monsters coming and the train rolling. It also lets you get casters into close range so you can kill them in 1-2 hits without worrying about getting pelted from afar, and by just walking around the mob you keep killing everything without getting hit too often, and you can even kill the most dangerous mofos in the cloud by using the Serpent Lash ability that lets you do 2 free moves, which also empowers your walk-around-and-hit-everyone attacks so even the Zot Orbs get killed before they start to shit damage on you.
I kept the cloud from the start of the lungs at Z:5 all the way to the center and cleared every fucking monster in there before the cloud disappeared.

TL;DR: Wu-Tang Clan Ain't Nuthing Ta Fuck Wit

>>540311081
I've been to hell but I can't give any real advice because Zin carried me through. level 27 invocations recite can make even Antaeus locked down with status effects

>>540308192
It depends, really- Especially in later cycles, you're liable to spend most of your later levels huffing Vigor, since you level up multiple times per floor all the way through to the KOMC. A judicious application of Vigor in the early levels will see you through well enough, typically.

You absolutely CAN build around healing a shit ton, mind you (you'll still want to take plenty of vigor because it's mostly a one-shot protection thing) and Will increases that a lot.
So... It's an "if you need it" kind of thing, right?

>>540308693
>It's a very fun game to learn about, but gets boring when you actually play it as a game.

Ye

>>540309860
>You close the door
>the kobold opens the door
>Grinder pisses on you!
>Six wolves are in the doorway!
>Kill yourself
>now
>You can't close the door, six wolves are in the way

>>540309860
In some roguelikes the game also notes which way the door opens, so you can actually put furniture or heavy things in front of the door and the monster will have to bash the door in.
>being chased by zombies
>"You are fear full, you have wet yourself"
>run into a small broom closet
>throw the door closed
>stack to shelves and a stool against the door
>as the zombies start bashing down the door I use get ontop of the stool
>"YOU'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE"
><U>se rope
>"Are you sure?"
>"Yes."
>hang myself
best run

>>540313440
Oh, yeah. I also won once like that. Turning everything into pillars of salt and kicking anything that survived was fun as hell.
I'm probably gonna finish this run tomorrow tho, I'm too mentally drained to not do something fucking stupid and splat today.

I really liked tome haven't quite beat it yet but I've got to lvl 45ish on nightmare I don't like the game much after you get to the orcs side(I just unlocked the difficulties and classes)
I really didn't like dungeon crawl soup
What other games should I try? I played elin for a bit but they sold it to me as something more than it was

>>540295749
Hm your Warden build looks kinda all over the place but don't worry. You have means to bully master.

You invested in Bow tree, Warden has many multihiting talents, so you shoul utilize that. For example look for some arows that have 10%-30% chance to apply debuff. Yeah it's not a big chance but you should be able to roll on it up to 3 times a turn. So you will eventually debuff him.

I also see you have rune of dissipation. Did you open with it to disable Master sustains ? That rune is mainly to fuck up wizards.

>>540318408
DoomRL and Jupiter Hell Classic (also normal Jupiter Hell) are on the quicker side, you can finish a playthrough in a couple of hours at most. Same with One Way Heroics.
Path of Achra and Rift Wizard are also short ones, but those are more about doing some mix and match builds and seeing which one can kill everything on screen faster.

Try those if you feel more like having a quick session instead of a multiple hours one.

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>>540295749
This is my Warden from insane, it worked and I think i have all good skills for basic build. Spacetime folding is meh IMO

>>540318408
Try Sil or Brogue, much more streamlined and debloated. Less filler and grinding, more action.

>>540320962
Spacetime folding is actually the key to the Madness viable build.
You can temporal chain yourself to multiple locations (Drem racial, reset cooldown ability). Each turn your character will blink multiple times, which triggers all the fancy on teleport stuff you have like damaging nearby enemies and clearing your statuses. With spell scaling it is one of the best damage sources in the game.
On Insane it's overkill though.

>>540321297
Oh yeah i've heard about that setting it up on insane would be super tedious.though. Plus having a turn when a guy gets hit by 5 of my arrows from diffrent timelines and gets confused/silenced/pinned/stunned feels cool.

>>540321874
In Madness you don't have a choice, fights take forever regardless.
Anyway, Banish is still a very good skill, but Temporal Warden gets away with too much shit on Insane (even playing with dogs and basic shoot ability already makes it better than 95% of the classes in the game) so you never see the truly strong abilities mentioned. Stasis is another strong ability but requires you to build the class as a caster. Web of Fate is very good (% damage reduction is rare in the game).

I play adventurer on madness a mix of necro and chrono always looking for cool shit to add to it though

>>540308192
Healing is good. You can outheal the King of Many Colors if you have an item to remove the RNG status effect he puts on you. Fire Healing is the best one with multiple attacks activating it but there are plenty of good healing sources.

>>540331645
Belay that, fire healing is possibly the worst healing in the game

>>540322754
How about Dark Reign? You've probably got enough darkness damage through necro to keep the affinity up at all times, and it'd fit nicely with Webs of Fate/Reality Smearing/etc. I've heard Demon Seed is also excellent if you're not running tinkers that compete for slots.

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>>540292562
It seems to me the game is already punishing you for choosing your "optimal" stratategy and you're too autistic to realize this and want instead to explicitly be told not to play that way.

Because you're a moron.

>>540336991
Interesting I usually use my extra slots on stuff like celestial/sun

>>540336991
You have enough darkness and temporal damage to easily activate both passives definitely trying that next run

>>540332308
It's a small amount because you can activate it a gigantic number of times. Every little bit of fire damage heals.

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>>540338334
First time I've seen this message after going into Pan. Let's see what's this about.

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>>540338334
Sorry, didn't mean to quote.
>>540338650
Well, they actually sell the rune now.
Sure, not like I need the money anymore.

I think god every day that I never became a weeb

You think therefore you are (a weeb)

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>>540341081
lies.

>>540337338
>>540337525
If you really want to lean into it, try Armor of Shadows + Shadowmeld from demon seeds - free 20% damage evasion and 30% status negation with your darkness synergy. Chronophage is another interesting tree that could have use on madness - slaying plus double cooldowns plus turn gain in a pinch, all in one tree. Don't know if it'd fit the darktank build though.

Just faulted in the depths final level because I was too lazy. Went down the stairs 5 times, each time took half hp damage instantly from flame surges. I had rings of fire resistance, potions of resistance, acrobat amulet, etc...
Instead of using any of them I just spammed LCS while stair dancing trying to kill all the enemies one at a time.
Then I got surrounded, pushed off the stairs, and assraped by demons.

I feel nothing, I was getting kinda bored anyway after playing for an hour. Is this the true DCSS experience? Cruise through the game on autopilot instakilling everything until you get killed by your own lack of attention?

nah that's just madcuzbad

>play DCSS for 4 hours
>come back to shitpost
>can't figure out how to manually read
>try to find the auto-read and auto-post buttons
I feel strange

Another good thing about current DCSS, Makhleb's marks. Idk how all of them are but Mark of Atrocity is definitely very fun

I'm finding out about old memes and laughing about them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXptot8Qhlo

life is simple

>>540308693
>>540307887
Hey, so, I (Saad Amus anon) got a question for you guys, as you did beat the story: its my first time doing the tomb of eaters/spindle. Do I wear the Mark of Death (which, as I understand, will make its guardians ignore me) or do I go in without it? Is there a downside for having the Mark?

>CDDA: TLG + MoM
>wounded start in a burning building with a stalking Mindhunter hulk enemy
>keep trying again and again after getting fucked by slow move speed, flesh raptors, or ferals
>finally manage to survive until first nightfall
>escape to a nearby gun store
>no ammo that I can access yet, but loads of guns to pick from and a little food/water
>decide to sleep to recover exhaustion and heal a little before moving on
>tfw completely forgot about my pursuer and it kool-aid mans a horde straight into my makeshift bedroom
Well shit

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>>540361971
MoM...

>>540358660
Always learn it, from Rebekah's grave in Ezra

The "True Intended Experience™" is to put the Mark of Death on and wear it till you die.
Conservators will be non-hostile by default, Cherubs will be non-hostile by default, you'll get teleported to a random nearby "place of rest" on the floor every 300 turns unless you're already standing in one when the timer ticks down.
You end up still having to fight off fistfuls of Tomb Ferrets and "death pilgrims" (randoms from the various sultan factions found at historic sites) anyways and you're not allowed to graverob without the jelly-bots getting mad anyways.
It's not a bad experience, desu. The teleport is ok, forgiving timelimit, plenty of rest zones around.

The "big guy trickster" move is to NOT tattoo yourself- The doors won't open for you, but that's why god invented pickaxes and nano-pneumatic jackhammers. Some walls are tedious as hell to break through with the pickaxe (use the Dig ability to autotarget, for real for real), but busting into the tomb just once is easy enough and you can clear away bone rubble fast (which you would do whether or not you broke in).
Conservators will be ON SIGHT with you- 16 and 22 AV respectively will *roughly* quarter their average damage output, though, and while you can't dodge their piercing ranged projectile, you probably CAN no-sell taking 2d6 every 4th turn by the time you're partying in the Tomb. You can skip the teleportitis, since it only hits you if you're marked and cruise upstairs without having to deal with that- Still tussling with everything on the way up, of course.
You MUST (really should) tattoo yourself with the Mark of Death before entering the Sultan Tombs at the end, as the Cherub fights can be very difficult and Herododicus at the end won't indulge you if you're not marked (I think).
(yapping cont.)

>>540372185

There's one final version: "No fun allowed loser mode"
Grab a nano jackhammer (or don't, I'm a sign, not a cop, it's your free time not mine), go to the eastern side of the Tomb, in the center. Tunnel west into the tomb, where you'll find the up-stairs that you'd be searching for after shafting yourself through the side-tunnel after entering through the Gate of Death.
Take it up.
Follow the conveyor belts to their origin (watch out for the trash stealing mosquitoes)(You can visit here on a regular run too)
Loot the control room and dig to the west again- You'll hit the elevator shaft. Dig AROUND it (z-levels are not handled well by flight here, it's a long way down) to the far west side, travel to that zone, find the up-stairs.
Switch directions and dig east, rinse and repeat till the tomb of the sultan
Tattoo yourself before entering.
Congratulations, you skipped the last, most well developed (and gimmicky) dungeon of the game. I respect Reverse Golgotha during a regular run, but not this.
Still do it sometimes

Personally, I prefer to put the tattoo on and do it live, the way the butt monkey devs intended

>>540320962
I'm surprised you didn't dump points into the 5th fate weaving tree, the damage reduction there seems cracked.

>>540318779
>You have means to bully master.
I don't doubt it but I do wonder a bit, since I can barely stand in his presence before he blasts me for 2/3rds of my HP, and I don't exactly have the means to one-shot his adds. His lord of bone or whatever was a tough 1 on 1 for me even. I have some temporal shields and I got a unique shield ability too but I only have a pittance of actual healing, so I have no idea how to respond to him melting my HP.

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nice

>>540372762
From what I remember you should be able to heal up to full and severely reduce incoming damage in multiple ways.
Time trees usually have incoming damage reduction, teleport other or banishment abilities (which you can even use on yourself to recover in peace, often enough), as well as damage delay/heal over time.
Aside from the mana burn rune mentioned earlier (iirc that's what dissipation is?) you should have up to date 1 or 2 healing/regen/shielding infusion/rune that can cover your entire healthbar. The affliction removal is also mandatory but (iirc)(iirc iirc) some are MUCH stronger than others (removing 1-3 or all, or having secondary effects) and you should make sure to double check all of those.

Fighting The Master should involve burning his sustains off and seeking to CC him quick and hard- Use invis, or other defensives to reset the fight or space out to recover and regain your cooldowns.

Any major fight in Tome is about layering your defensives and fending off certain expected attacks. Shield incoming damage, recover health after the inevitable second wave of nukes, engage while you've got the enemy debuffed, clear their inevitable debuffs, at LEAST two methods of escape and recovery.

Give me H roguelikes

H for Hot chocolate.

>>540372185
>>540372596
yeah, I agree.
I will try to do a part of it without the Mark, but the big central tomb I'll probably mark myself first to give me prep time, just in case there's a esper hunter present too.

>>540381692
I've only really heard of one in particular
White Snow or some shit, like 15, 20 years back or something, idk
Apparently it's got lolishit in it tho

Just play Corruption of Champions 1/2 or Trials in Tainted Space desu, samething to be desu

>>540383849
Maiden Snow Eve

>>540362249
giwtwm

>>540378175
That might explain it a bit, my heal infusion only does 145 healing of my 600 HP. If it were 2 or 3 times as strong things would be different.

Anyways here's my tome adventurer build not quite sure what would be best for the last slot maybe fuck with tinkers idk
>Adventurer
>Necro
Nightfall
Animus
Necrosis(Required for age of dusk unless you have lots of gear with -life)
Age of dusk
>Chrono
Flux
Fate weaving
Matter
Timetravel
>Corruption
Demonic pact
Doom covenant
>Archmage
Meta
>Remainder
1 any or 2 any without Necrosis

>>540384518
Too bad. Dungeon time, brokie. Now!

>>540372762
The only class I don't use the zigzag tunnel cheese for master is cultist of entropy because it wants an open area to lay down effects and summon the herald

>>540387048
I heard of the zigzag but I don't yet understand how one can even make one of those with the master on your ass constantly.

>>540387048
Summoner doesn't want/need this either, because you need space for pets in the first place

Is stone claws troll worth doing in current DCSS?

>>540387338
You dig any set of zig zag tunnel on the map before you explore the area. Or you track and dig it near him.
So, it doesn't matter where you put the tunnel as long as you can run back to it. This is because enemies above the rank of basic in tome4 have maphack, but imprecise one. Once you aggro the master and hide in a tunnel, you can just wait until he eventually walks into you.
Note that he can block you by summoning a ghoul behind your back. I don't know the specific but I'd rather fight him like that instead of facing endless horde of skeletons anyway.

>>540387732
If you mean unarmed statue form troll then yes it's just as powerful as ever.

>>540387739
Oh, I thought he aggro'd the second I walked in. Perhaps I should have dug it near the stairs.

>>540388491
Anyway, if you have issue vs Borfast it probably means you low weapon damage.
In tome4, your weapon damage is calculated mostly by
(stat contrib * weapon multiplier)
stat contrib is written on the weapon, like 50% magic 50% dex for the bow when playing Temporal Warden (it converts str to magic) and the weapon multiplier is a constant based on the weapon's tier.
Now the importance here is that armor is applied here before further multipliers (like % physical damage and critical hit). So if you don't have enough stat or your weapon is low tier, you can end up doing next to 0 damage.
It's recommended that you max Magic then Dex and take Arcane Might prodigy on TW.

>>540389251
Ah I see, I was leveling mostly magic and willpower. That would explain a lot. Furthermore, I didn't get jack shit in bow drops, so it's still like tier 2.

>>540385745
It's unlikely you'll find a healing infusion that strong by Dreadfell, but you can definitely find regen infusions healing 3-400 around that time - use it pre-emptively and top off with a healing infusion in between his nukes. Lighting runes are another option since they completely negate the next 2-3 big hits you take, or charms with the ward ability if you're lucky. Healing totems/shielding wands are good panic buttons to hit while you're running from a fight.

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Really bouncing off of tome. Playing permadeath, rolled a halfling and specced into throwing knives, but losing steam around level 25. Dungeons feel very samey, and I'm pretty much just spamming the same rotation of abilities for every encounter. Does it pick up?

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>>540372762
Look for arrows with status effects here is end game example but you should find something similiar even earlier, stun cuts his damage by 50%, Silence completly disables his abilities for couple turns, confusion and blind are good too.

>>540390046
What difficulty ?

>>540390046
That's how most of the 2nd part of the game plays. You just clearing rooms with your rotation seeing if you can find a unique or a randart that will boost your numbers higher, then you tackle the final dungeon and see if your build was good enough.
You're right in thinking it drops hard after a while and that's why I only lay a complete run every now and then, because having it as a game you play often would be boring as hell, because even with all of the classes and races you can play, the endgame is always doing your rotation and clearing everything in sight.

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>>540345856
Sometimes, yeah. There's a lot of times you're just trying to bruteforce a situation that could've been beaten by thinking for a couple of seconds instead and that's why I take breaks often when playing it, or else I fault like that.
In fact, I just faulted during my Tomb run because I was pretty tired and tried to tab a single royal mummy. Turns out a single royal mummy is as deadly as a whole pack of them if you fight it carelessly.

Cruised through all of the game, collected every single rune and I still lost to a single mummy and a couple of traps.