How do you feel about the bigger emphasis on human characters in newer games?
>>55787340homosexual pandering i dont like
>>55787345Yes I also did not like the game version of Lillie she was a Mary Sue and a waste of space
>>55787340don't care about it. I only want to catch pokemon
>>55787340Legends: Arceus did a pretty decent job establishing what a kiddie-friendly horror Pokemon game could be. Good enough character development, while keeping the focus on mysterious monsters (which Pokemon should always be, not your run-of-the-mill animals). Hopefully Legends: PIZZA will continue the precedent.
>>55787340bleh. there's a million games with human characters, and it's not like pokemon's offerings are notable in that regard.
>>55787340It would be good if it didn't come at the cost of lower quality pokemon.
>>55787340I think the bigger emphasis on Nemona was a good addition to the games.
>>55787340As opposed to what, emphasis on Pokemon characters? That hasnt happened outside of Mystery Dungeon.
>>55787340Since it was coupled with genuinely much better character writing, I like it. Characters as good as Arven and Kieran couldn't have existed in past games.
I really like it. SuMo and SV are the first games that made me feel because Lillie and Arven are such great characters.
>>55787353>Mary Sue>Fails at literally every goal she has>Doesn’t overcome her shortcomings in game, just accepts them and works to improveHow is Lillie a Mary Sue again? Just because all the characters like her? Oh, except her mother and a lot of team Skull
>>55787541Lilie is not a mary sue but she is an attention whore, stealing the spotlight every two fucking seconds.
>>55787541>kieran>lillie>hop>bede>a bunch of other forgettable rivalsPokemon has a lot of "anti-Mari Sue" characters, that fail at everything they try to achieve. Is there a term for that?
>>55787572She’s the deuteragonist, of course she’s prominent. I really enjoyed seeing her grow and mature though out the story and am proud of her for finding the confidence to go on her own adventure in Kanto
>>55787628sissy losers>>55787653kys
>>55787666No, Satan, I will not. Lillie is too good for you anyway. She’s got the best character arc in the mainline games cope
>>55787653nah, too much attention on this attention whore.she literally ruins my desire to replay SM
>>55787340Since when? Gen 5 had a lot of this.
>>55787519I agree. Pre-SV, I'd have said the growing focus on the human characters was annoying and misplaced, but I was pleasantly surprised by how much I liked the interactions the SV companions, and I genuinely wish there were more opportunities to interact with them/get to know more about them now.
>>55787694>let me take control of your game and force you to watch as Bianca resolves a family drama with her father for the next 10 minutes while.Yikes
>>55787340Its a mistake. Nobody gives a shit about human characters in pokemon.
>>55787340I think it's fine as long as it doesn't substantially takes away from other parts of the core game. I think SM would have been perfect games if there was a skip button and made a lot of the character development optional. I love immersing myself in Pokemon games so I would have seeked out all the story element anyways, but it puts a sour taste in the mouth of people that aren't into that or doing a play through for the 100th time.
>>55787340
>>55787340I hate it. I do not play pokemon for the human characters and I doubt many people do, they are by and large not well written or interesting in any way. The pokemon themselves are the draw of the series and yet they want to dodge this for some reason.I did like Kieran, but it was a freak accident and I do not expect it to happen again. Just stop
I guess they got to have something cause it sure as shit isnt the pokemon.
>>55787696The totally-not-a-dating-sim rematch system in the DLC is probably the most we'll ever see like this in a mainline Pokemon game, unfortunately.
>>55787733I don't care about Pokemon and the mysteries of their world, I want to have the option to hug (& dick down) Kieran NOW
The characterization aspect was always there, it was a little simplified because they didn't use cutscenes, but I mean, like you clearly understood that Mr. Fuji deeply cared about Pokemon, or that Giovanni was a ruthless tyrant, or that Gary Oak was a jackass.
>>55787867Those are characterizations, but they're not character arcs. SV and its DLCs showed that there's a lot of value in seeing characters develop in interesting ways.
>>55787885Yeah idk man, I just mash the A button through all that
>>55787628>Is there a term for that?Non-Protagonists.Ohmori desperately wants to make characters with protagonist-level ambitions, but because YOU'RE already the protagonist, they either have to have their ambitions crushed so they find a more humble and out of the way life to live, or they leave everything to you because you're so talented and amazing.
>>55787900You missed out on so much good stuff...
>>55787628anti-sue
>>55787709I liked Bianca's family drama and wish Lillie's ended as quickly as hers so she could shut the fuck up and let me explore.
>>55788096>wish Lillie's ended as quickly as hers so she could shut the fuck up and let me explore.Holly fucking based, I knew I wasn't the only one on this godforsaken board.
>>55788101I think it's a pretty common sentiment, it's just that everytime it's brought up people go "YEAH BUT GEN 5/6/8/9 IS WORSE"
>>55787733>>55787856I want mysterious Pokémon lore AND I want to hug a character I would at least give half a fuck about instead of no fucks given like the Ohmori directed visual novel garbage called games have spewed out since Gen 7!
>>55787913Yep, like missing out on a migraine thanks to a climax and ending that didn't show or explain anything.
>>55788171As someone who's pretty new to this board in particular, I already can't stand it. How do you fuckers stay sane reading such utterly pointless arguments for years on end?
>>55788220Oh, it's retarded.>>55788206You only care about characters that have no substance?
>>55788222We enjoy our anger and your digits.
>>55788222Nice tripsI simply don't come here very often
>>55788229>Oh, it's retarded.What gave that away, the brain damage?
>>55787733Why not both? the average pokefan is unable to truly raise their standards.
>>55787340It was great in Sun and Moon because they were engaging and the plot was very cohesive.In Sword and Shield there's nothing, and in Scarlet and Violet there's still nothing.I don't like how they've been handling it.
>>55787628Kieran is a that guy in an ntr doujin that gets ntrd.Until he snaps and realizes nothing he will do can succeed and swallowing the black pill he becomes part of the Paranoia Agent opening.
>>55788872RAAAAAAAIIIYAAAAAH!
>>55787340it would be fine if the setting wasnt shitthe place isn't shitthe characters weren't shit
>>55788843this
>>55787777They ignored his 7s because he told them the truth
>>55787340SwSh's story was so bad that it made me think that Pokémon should just stop trying to write a story. SV completely changed my mind.SV didn't only have great character writing (which SwSh attempted, but came out extremely half-assed), it also did a great job setting up the mysteries of Paldea, Area Zero and Terapagos, even if the latter was a bit disappointing. Which is why I don't get the pic in >>55787733, why not have both? Why not have the mysteries have a close connection to the characters? Why not unravel those mysteries and making friends along the way?I think SV did a pretty good job at this, I enjoyed it a lot. But it's being very much held back by the presentation. I don't only mean the bad graphics and performance, I also mean character animations. Stuff like characters still move really robotically by shuffling their feet when turning to you before speaking really hurts the presentation now that the focus on characters is so much bigger. They really need to work on that.
>>55787733>explain the ancient pokemon worldHow else are they supposed shoehorn in Pikachu in the land of fossil Pokemon before they sadly went extinct? Fuck Pikachu, I want my herds upon herds of Amaura and Aurorus in a snowy tundra.
>>55787340All for the human characters getting more focus but the recent games are doing it in such terrible ways. I could not care less about Kieran, Arven, and Penny. Nemona is the only one who actually feels like a friend and even she’s not that great. As>>55788843 said, Gen 7 did it much better.
>>55787696>>55787519These. Emphasis on characters is at its best when it's a supplement to a good game with good writing. We haven't had that since BW so I was pleasantly surprised at how well Gen 9 is pulling it off.
>>55788843>It was great in Sun and Moon because they were engaging and the plot was very cohesive.Except the fact that Sun and Moon were literal movies.Pokemon isn't made for storytelling, period, focus on gameplay, on battling specifically.
>>55788843Bizarre take. SV is really similar to SM, except executed better in almost every way.
>>55788843So much this. Paldea’s attempt at a large cast was awful. Especially the “friend” group. Hate when they try to pass a character off as your absolute best friend but they’re so disengaging.
>>55789478/threadNo idea who plays Pokemon to beat the bad guy and get the 8 badges for the 20th time.Honestly, a Pokemon focused on PvP would be the best right now.
>>55787340It wasn't a problem with the anime, why should it be a problem now?
>>55787340As opposed to what, focusing on the Pokemon, so you can read them go "Squir squir squirtle"?
>>55787340i don't like it, it's boring and cringethe writing, characters and story was always the weak point in pokemon so trying to expand and focus on that aspect doesn't work for me, all the characters are so lifeless and one dimensional
>>55789478>focus on gameplay, on battling specifically.The games do do that though, at least as far as core gameplay goes. Game engine needs a lot more work under the hood but I don't think pointing the finger at the choice to be more story driven is to blame.They just recognize that they have to make the games more accessible to children since exploiting ignorance to the type chart (aka making the game feel like homework) isn't fair, which is why games since Sun/Moon give players hints at what moves will work best after battling a Pokémon once. The stories are just framing devices to show what a region and the Pokémon in it are about because the technology is there for it and they don't have to rely on the anime to expand on a game's story anymore since the games don't have to be simplistic anymore.
>>55789563They could do an Animal Crossing tier game all about the humans and Pokemon just interacting and I think it would have its own appeal
>>55789563>Pokemon focused on PvP would be the best right now.Some people like Meganium you know.
>>55789598That's the thing, as long as the fights devolve to "use type advantage STAB to win" the games are going to be boring.
>>55789609Just give it a mega evolution.
>>55789547Did you prefer the annoying soulless cunts from XY? At least you get to know the SV characters before they start calling you their friend and don't just immediately start sucking your cock for no reason.
>>55790122No they’re terrible too. Arven literally calls you his friend after your second meeting that’s not getting to know him.
>>55787340I liked it in the newer games, not the 3DS games at all. However, the MC being a blank slate is a major problem. They should have an original protagonist in the main game, and let you create your own for online usage.
>>55787541She's not a Mary Sue, I agree. But she was forced as fuck. Felt like Ohmori was trying to make people like his bland waifu.
>>55788843Nah fuck you and kys
>>55787340if I wanted humans I would go play any other fucking j/rpg, I'm here for pokemon
>>55789526SV by its very nature as a (failed) open world had to sacrifice its story and characters for the player to have any sort of freedom expected in the genre.Gladion gets a character arc about his mother, type null, and stops being such an edgy little shit for example, while Arven is the same from start to finish but his dog gets better.
>>55790169Arven is a child neglect victim, plus he really needs your help. That's why he's latching onto you.
>>55790169Wow, you mean the guy with family trauma and a terminally ill Pokemon that's both his best friend and surrogate parent is desperate to find help to save said terminally ill Pokemon and is willing to do anything to earn favor from anyone who can help him?
If Sada goes to the past why can't we just find her later? She's a robot, not gonna die of old age.
>>55790472Whos gonna charge her in the stone age?
>>55790266>while Arven is the same from start to finish but his dog gets better.What? Did we play the same fucking game? First time you meet Arven, he almost literally tells you to fuck off. He comes off as abrasive and hostile and clearly knows more than he admits. Then later, you meet him at the cafeteria, where he literally bribes you. From that is becomes very clear that he's hiding something from you. His abrasive side is still sometimes visible like after the second titan where he yells at the Raidon, but he also slowly starts opening up to you and shows you the vulnerable side of him that he was clearly hiding from you.He then continues growing attached to you, to the point where he gets jealous of your other friends and considering you his best friend. He also learns how to deal with the fact that his parent is dead - which he was aware of but didn't want to admit to himself. He converts his feelings of grief into anger towards his parent until he accepts the truth and moves on.How is that not an arc? He completely changed his attitude towards you and his parent.
>>55790472>Humanity does not, in fact, possess the knowledge to develop such a sophisticated AI at present. But the crystals that make up the Zero Lab have made such a thing possible here. They are also why I cannot leave this place.It's heavily implied the AI requires the presence of the crystals, and thus an extremely strong condensation of Tera Energy, to be able to function. The AI uses the time machine both to finally fulfill the professor's dream in spirit and to effectively self-terminate itself so the time machine doesn't re-activate because of its presence.Likewise in Sada AI's case, considering Sada herself subscribed to the belief that the Paradox Pokemon of Area Zero she fixated on HAD to have come from literal billions of years in the past, that's a long ass time for the AI's body to break down into its barest, most unrecognizable components in the event those billions of years eventually lead back to the Paldea it originally left.
>>55790492That's not an arc, you're describing a quest line and summarizing gameplay and thinking there's character growth at all.Fucking Kieran and Carmine have arcs and they're minuscule, but this guy?I get you have buyer's remorse from likely blowing $95 on a dogshit game but come on now.
GameFreak has never cared about the pokemon. Tajiri compares them to bugs, Masuda is an animalfag, Ohmori only wants to write his human dramas, and TPC enforces their status as no more than kawaii marketability pets. The humans have always been the focus of the story. This error is only ever corrected in third-party content, namely PMD and Pokepark.
>>55789587There have been talking pokemon since the 90s.
Love it because it's done so fucking poorly it made me not care about the games anymore, I'm free!
>>55790287I’m aware. Doesn’t change what I said though>>55790446And how much of that do you know during that conversation?
>>55787733>If they’re going to keep going with the “Pokemon are from space” themeWhere did that come from?
>>55790510I pirated it. You're insane if you think Arven has no arc. He significantly changes as a person.
>>55790871A dog is not a personality trait.
>>55790894Yes it is.
>>55790829Not ALL Pokemon originate from space, but since the very beginning they've been hinting that Pokemon owe a lot of their attributes to spaceborne influence. Clefairy being alleged ayys who rely on the Moon Stone to become more powerful (which in turn can also affect multiple Pokemon that originate from earth) is a real notable one, and that's just Gen 1.
I don't like that they include characters that are older than the player character, it feels condescending.
>>55790829The Clefairy line, Starmie broadcasting radio waves into space to "communicate with something", Elgyem arriving from a UFO crash, Deoxys in general, Ultra Beasts in general. There's multiple references to Pokemon with origins outside Earth.
>series still relies on the split version business model>could've had a pair of games that take place in the same region where one version focuses on the gameplay and Pokemon and the other on the story and humans, letting people buy the version that caters to their tastes>both versions are still the same game with minor differences and half-baked on both sides, leading to disappointed fans and mixed views
>>55791091>letting people buy the version that caters to their tastesOr you could just do it right and have one game that does both, like every other game series.
>>55790894His dog has very little to do with his development, it's just a plot device. This story is about opening up to (You) and dealing with his problems and emotions in a healthier way.Starting to think you're just pretending to be retarded with how obtuse you're being.
>>55790894just like Hugh in BW
>>55791043AgreedAnd it's especially weird in SV cause some characters vaguely flirt with you despite being visibly olderThey really should've made the MC older
>>55787340As long as they're written well, I'm absolutely fine with it. Someone like N I can tolerate, but someone like Hugh I can't.
>>55791602>His dog has very little to do with his development, it's just a plot device.This. It could've been replaced by almost any other Pokémon and the story would've been the same.
>>55791938hugh was funny though
>>55791602>This story is about opening up to (You) and dealing with his problems and emotions in a healthier wayExcept it's not, because that's just dumped on you at the end. Exposition is not a personality. See Kieran for a good example of actually having a personality and arc:Dude's a bitch, you get to see how he idolize power, and how angry he gets when you take his obsession. The only exposition is the stupid bullshit about ogerpon's backstory.Then comes the indigo disk and we see how he changed, he's a fucking asshole still obsessed with strength. You aren't told this, it's shown to you. Then getting his ass whooped again makes him break down and be somehow less of a bitch. It's not deep, but it's an actual character arc. Not "actually my dog was sick and my mom(because you bought scarlet, awooga professor and all don't you lie to me) is gone I'm so sad but I'm better now".
>>55792600>kieranI was betrayed by my sister and best friend (met 2 days ago) so I want to be strong but you beat me>garyI'm a cunt and want to be strong but you beat me>silverI'm an orphaned asshole and want to be strong but you beat me>wallyI'm sick and want to be strong but you beat me>barryI'm an adhd retard who wants to be strong but you beat me>cherenI want to be strong but alder talked to me once and you beat me>hughI want my fucking cat back>serenaI want to be strong but you beat me>nemonaI am strong and I groomed you into beating me
>>55792600>Exposition is not a personality.Are you genuinely retarded?
Things i like = good personality Things i dont like = not personality
I wish they'd put more effort towards the actual gameplay, but I guess it's *nice* that there's a little bit more substance in the story.
>>55793950Malasadas are the best, thus Hau is the best character for not giving a fuck about anything but Maladas and still being the only actual rival champion since blue. What the fuck.
>>55787340As long as the they and their storylines are good. Kieran are Carmine are great characters with actual depth. I didn't like Arven himself but his storyline with the dog is very memorable. Nemona is overbearing as fk and only gets a pass because she's attractive. That other girl is so forgettable I can't even remember her name. She was literally in the group to be a snarky nerd, nothing special about her at all. So it can go very right or very wrong.
>>55794450The principal was the better character in the team star plot. He even gets the last starter.
