Do you think this problem would be solved if the game was less linear?
yawnfag thread
>>56203268it would be solved if the designed didn’t look like mass produced cartoon network slop
>>56203270>took 33 seconds to respondget a job sagefag
Nuke the board.
>>56203268Definitely pretty pointless to have the sixth option example in what is such an easy series like Pokemon that's for sure. Less linear game design can also create different ways for you to find those Pokemon earlier on, so I think it's a win-win for everyone.
>>562032822 nukes, take it or leave it
>>56203268You fix this by sprinkling rare pokemon in the field. Here's a bug route? Why not add a scyther there with a higher level, rare pokemon or field threat potential. You have enough pokemon that you can put more than 5 in a route.
>>56203268what does any of this have to do with being linear
>>56203376how do I find pawniard earlier in the game? if the game isn't linear surely there's a way I can find it right?
>>56203274sagefag doesn't and will never exist because "he's" the common census of the general fanbase.
>>56203376if you could go to different places with different encounters you have more options for team building. SV did this to a small degree and you could either look up where your favourite Pokemon are or just walk around and find some that interest you a lot easier than the 3-4 routes with obvious counters the older games put next to the town you were stuck in
>>56203437>>56203443Yes and no. I think it'd be better to have a wider mon variety and a bunch of secret areas. If you go out of your way to run to the spots with lvl 50-60 pokemon and get lucky with a pokeball it's going to take all the fun out of it by giving you this beast when everything you're supposed to fight is 10-15Plus you end up with pokemon like some gen 5 mon who don't evolve till late 40s early 50s. You'd have to reshuffle the evo levels to make it more viable as an early mon.
>>56203437heartgold is nonlinear, how do I get sneasel in the early game in heartgold?
>>56203541by using the pokewalker
>>56203437Pokemon available has no correlation to the non-linearity of any part of the game. DP is linear and has a miserable Pokemon pool, RS is linear but frontloads most of the new Pokemon and when it does get non-linear at the end of the game the available Pokemon drops dramatically, similar things can be said about Gen 1, B2W2 onwards have huge Pokemon pools on most maps despite them being largely linear, and even in the OP image a lot of the Pokemon that are available around the 2nd to 4th gym (which is where the Pokemon pool really starts getting good) can be found in optional areas. Furthermore, non-linearity and RPGs (especially JRPGs) rarely mix well, I can give a few examples if you really want. Basically, your question doesn't make any sense with reality. But if you do want Pawniard, use the GTS, it works with almost no hassle (you enter a couple of numbers when setting up WiFi) if you have the internet (which you definitely have if you're posting here) and a DSi or newer console (which given you're probably Yawnfag you love your 3DS a lot). You can actually search for Pokemon you haven't seen in that game unlike Gen 4.
>>56203546>padding the game with pointless timewasting gimmicks*yawn*
>>56203554Look guys look, he said his iconic line!
>>56203552>Pokemon available has no correlation to the non-linearity of any part of the gameThen why is SV the only game I can catch every regular pokemon in the regional dex before the first gym?
>>56203557I dunno, why is SV the only game where every single gym is trivial because you can catch Pokemon that are way better than every single gym? It's almost like it's a bad JRPG or something. At least when USUM let you catch a fully evolved pseudo it was level 5, RNG, and also really funny.
>>56203546what if I want sneasel in the early game without outside peripherals? since it's nonlinear sneasel should be available before the third gym right?
>>56203552>Pokemon available has no correlation to the non-linearity of any part of the gameIt directly correlates to how the game distributes its Pokemon which can be rated on a scale from linear to non-linear.
>>56203565>why is SV the only game where every single gym is trivial every single gym in BW and BW2 is trivial so clearly that’s not true
>>56203546her area in the pokewalker is natdex only retard
stop feeding the troll
>>56203511i don't claim that the SV approach is better than the old way. it just is much easier to distribute pokemon when you have more available space. the level cap problem is related but i don't think pokemon availability has to interact with unbalanced leveling if the game designers actually don't want it to be the case, like in the games
>>56203569So you're saying a game that has one map with all the Pokemon before the first gym, then nothing but a straight line of other maps with no new Pokemon is non-linear? Or are you talking existing Pokemon games, in which case RSE is still largely a great counterexample.>>56203578I suppose that depends on how you play the game. If you go out of your way to grind, use Pass Powers, use items or use the Lucky Egg, definitely. If you somehow trigger the anti-piracy measures, or use the negative EXP Pass Powers, then there's a lot more planning you'd have to do. However if we define playing normally as catching a team of 6 Pokemon while not really using items in battle, the game where you can only catch certain Pokemon at a certain level will always provide more challenge than a game where you can catch Pokemon at a high level early enough for it trivialize a portion of a game. Gen 1's technically optional Digglet Cave has a similar problem with the high level Dugtrio sweeping Lt. Surge, but the way the game is designed means that it will eventually balance out with the rest of your team playing normally. A game that is non-linear functionally can not have that without level scaling, which just completely defeats the purpose of levels in the first place.
>>56203371They even have the perfect mechanics for this, shaking grass and double battle grass. Instead of forcing us to use the elemental monkey why not let us catch Tympole or Petilill before the 1st gym?
>>56203606Yeah, a game that has all Pokemon available in that way would give you the opportunity to select your Pokemon from as early on as possible making it a non-linear experience. Restrictions on what you can or can't do is what enables linearity in the first place.
>>56203608BW's first gym problem isn't about linearity, as the next several areas have perfectly fine Pokemon pools despite being largely linear with like 1 optional side area per mandatory area. The problem is they made the first gym a type matchup tutorial that ONLY uses the three main types that you could have had 3 total chances to understand beforehand if they introduced Leafage in Gen 5 and functionally twice (one of which is an optional NPC in the same town as the gym). They don't let you use the shitty bird because it's super effective against grass, the assholes. Moving Purrloin to Route 3 and moving the bird, Roggenrolla, and Blitzle to Route 2 immediately makes the type matchup test gym way more mechanically interesting, but they were too afraid of losing the casual WiiDS audience that they ruined the game like Skyward Sword did with Fi. Thankfully unlike that game the tutorial ends even if the cut-scenes don't.>>56203621So you're saying a game with only one Pokemon is non-linear because you have access to every Pokemon before the first gym.
>>56203634> BW's first gym problem isn't about linearity,yes it isif the game was less linear it would have more pokemon available
>>56203268>take forever to ecvolveHardly a consideration when just about everything in gen 5 outside of starters and the very earliest route mons evolve fairly late. This only becomes an issue in later games that mix and match gen 5 with other gens in their regional dexes.
>>56203635x and y are just as linear and they have more early game choices than black and white
>>56203635Firstly, I just listed a change that added more Pokemon before the first gym, so that's clearly not the case. Secondly, RS is very linear at the start and has a ton of Pokemon available before the first gym, which means that despite being just as linear as BW there are more Pokemon available, meaning non-linearity isn't tied to Pokemon availability. Or furthermore, XY has less optional areas than BW, but the larger Pokedex means that there's more Pokemon per route, so in spite of the game being excessively linear to the point of beating the game people complain about linearity for, it has more Pokemon available. There is simply zero correlation between the two concepts.
>>56203634A game with only one Pokemon that you can use would mean that your options would be heavily restricted leading to a linear game design. This hypothetical game would be compared to already existing Pokemon games that already offer significantly more Pokemon that you can use to beat the games.
>>56203606>>56203634>>56203651>>56203652stop feeding the troll
>>56203651>x and y are just as linearIt actually isn’t. XY has 1 optional route before the first gym while BW has 0 optional routes before the first gym.
>>56203268sv is the least linear game in the series and every low iq retard screeching about linearity hates it so no
>Brock's gym>can catch Mankey, Nidoran and Butterfree if you need help>Falkner's gym>can catch/trade Geodude and Onix>Roxanne's gym>can catch/trade Wingull, Lotad, Seedot, Shroomish and Makuhita>Roarks' gym>can catch/trade Budew, Psyduck, Geodude, Onix and Machop>Cilan's gym>fuck you, grab the monkeyWhy though?
>>56203653Okay, let's pretend Pokemon isn't an RPG and instead an action game, and after a brief tutorial you're sent out with your single Pokemon and the four or so moves to clear the entire rest of the game in any order you want. Is that theoretical game linear?>>56203658And BW has several optional areas before the second gym, not to mention the consistent new optional areas in almost every other segment of the game. After the first gym in XY there's like 5 if I'm being generous. After you get surf alone there's 3 entire areas and a few sub areas, and there's 3 optional areas between beating the second and 4th gym and that's not even everything in the game.>>56203665See >>56203634>they were too afraid of losing the casual WiiDS audienceIt fucking sucks, but at least it doesn't negatively impact the rest of the game like fucking Hop being excited about type matchups every fucking time you fight him.
>>56203606>I suppose that depends on how you play the gameWith SV yes. With BW no. The gyms are always trivial in BW.
>>56203673>And BW has several optional areas before the second gymnope>not to mention the consistent new optional areas in almost every other segment of the gamenope
>>56203673The theoretical game you have described would have both linear and non-linear aspects to it. The ability to complete the game in any order you want from the start gives you non-linearity through freedom of exploration.The limitation you have by only being able to use one single Pokemon with only four moves can be compared to other action games like Elden Ring which allow you a greater amount of customization in terms of appearance and class. This theoretical game would have more restrictions than games like Elden Ring making it more linear in terms of restrictions on the character you can use to play through the game.
>>56203565They really need to scale the gyms up to your highest level pokemon in the party. With a lower level cap. 1st gym lower level cap being 10-15, 8th gym being 50. That way you can't just fight every gym with 6 lvl 1's
>>56203768>they really need to make levels pointlessnah
>>56203682>The gyms are always trivial in BW.So you're saying there's no possible way you could lose a gym battle in BW? Like, it's literally impossible for you to play the game in any way for you to possibly lose? If so, would you like me to set up a scenario where you could?>>56203686>nopeThere's the entire south part of the entrance to the forest that has all the Pokemon that you never need to enter at all, it's functionally optional. Dreamyard also never sends you through the grass, so that's technically optional as well. You can also count the number of required steps in Wellspring Cave on both hands, so the odds of you encountering any of the Pokemon is somewhat limited, but of all of them that's the most mandatory. If you don't consider any of that optional, that's understandable, the only one I'd say has the most merit to it is the one outside the forest, as an incredibly inattentive player could conceivably miss it as opposed to the other two which are basically blatantly obvious.>nopeOkay, list every optional area in BW with what segment it's available then, if you're so confident there's so little. You can do the same with XY if you want.
I kinda hate open world, I'm with you being able to run further into the woods to find stronger pokemon but when it's open world you tend to see how baren the area is. Paldea is just, grassland and sand, with different color grass. The only memorable place is area zero other than that I don't remember any of the towns and I was playing this shit a few days ago. The dlc biome is pretty cool I guess. But compared to other gens I don't have any areas that really are memorable outside area zero. Even pokemon games I hated I can tell you a bunch of the areas by describing them.
>>56203772If you go out of your way to catch a pokemon that over levels the content then you can't complain about the content being to easy. I wish they'd let me turn off exp share so I can run around and catch all the pokemon without worrying about passively getting enough exp to be 30 before the first gym.
>>56203703I had two Zelda games in mind when describing it, such as BotW and TotK (given Link basically has 4 Pokemon moves in each game). Given the applications of Link's abilities, I'd argue that there's a lot of depth with just those four (especially in TotK), regardless of the fact that the map design of the game doesn't really give super compelling reasons to use them in spite of how non-linear it is. I think that's probably the central issue between how you and I see things. Linearity is all about the structure of the game itself for me, doesn't matter how many ways to solve it there are. Portal is completely linear for example, despite how you can sometimes fuck with the "intended" solution. For you, you also consider the options you have to be linear or not. I think that's an incorrect assumption unfortunately. Just because you can use a different vehicle to travel a road doesn't mean the road doesn't matter. For me, linear games with a lot of options on how to solve things are my preference, and some Pokemon games manage to do it well. BW is merely OK, but RSE really does it well I think. On the other hand there's also too much choice, which can water down an experience if it's not handled well. Some of it does come down to player preference though, so it's not always a super clear answer.>>56203768I don't think that's correct choice, level caps are a bad idea. Scaling to number of badges could create a better experience if you're just doing what you can see, but that can be as fucked as normally playing. At best you could argue that a Battle Tower-like scaling to level 50 is at least an idea, but even then it's not a great idea. The problem is linear levels don't really integrate well with non-linear progression.
>>56203773>So you're saying there's no possible way you could lose a gym battle in BW?if your iq is above 50, yes
>>56203773>y-you can skip grass in a mandatory area so that makes it optional! you definitely can't also just do this in XY!man, you are absolutely desperate to make gen 5 look good, huh chronotriggertard?
>>56203794Scaling to 50 would be fine, but it's going to make it feel like leveling was pointless. I'd be ok if there was a sort of rematch mode. Where you can challenge them again and they get considerably harder each time. 1st brock fight. Geodude, Onyx2nd. Geodude, sandshrew, Geodude, Onyx3rd. Graveler, sandshrew, rhyhorn, Onyx4th, Graveler, Soodowoodo, Rhyhorn, steelixYou get the idea. Also it was level Minimum, not caps. So the minimum level would be based on what gym it's supposed to be. but there would be no high cap. I liked the pokemon world tournament.
>>56203798I think a retard mashing A on their starter might actually have an easier time than somebody of higher IQ because they probably don't know how to run from wild Pokemon. On the other hand, we all know Yawnfag is retarded and even he hasn't beaten Elesa with Tepig as his starter despite that being the fucking speedrun strat. Hell, I think the only guy on here who has beaten any Pokemon game just mashing A on the starter is the guy who beat Emerald with Blaziken. Yawnfag either can't beat the later gyms or just overlevels an entire party of Pokemon somehow. Dude thinks Totem Komo-o is hard, what a fucking idiot.>>56203830I feel like we're also disagreeing about what optional areas are, as before the first gym in BW you do have an alternate exit to Route 1, it's just behind surf. But if you insist, let's list all the optional areas in XY, and I'll be extra generous.>Route 22>Chamber of Emptiness, a single room with literally nothing until post-game, and then it has 1 item>Half of Connecting Cave>Azure Bay>Sea Spirit's Den, a single room with literally nothing until post-game, then sends you on the worst part of the roaming Pokemon hunt>Lost Hotel>Route 16>Terminus Cave, which prevents you from catching Zygarde until post-game which means you'd need to go through it twice with no changes if you wanted to explore it during the campaign>Unknown Dungeon, a single room with literally nothing until post-game where you get Mewtwo and an itemOn the other hand, BW has>Every floor of Wellspring Cave aside from the first, since I counted Connecting Cave above I think that's not unfair>Early Desert Resort>Early Relic Castle>Route 16>Lostlorn Forest>Anville Town>Route 17>Route 18>Mistralton Cave>Extra area of Pinwheel Forest with a legendary, if you don't want to count the area outside as well>Moor of IcirrusAnd I left out some stuff like Shopping Mall Nine and the entire post-game of BW.
>>56203268Still better than the shitty XY dex.
>>56203794Linearity being measured by the amount of options you have isn't a preference / opinion, it's a realistic analysis that results from comparing games with a wider variety of options versus ones that have less of them.Linearity also isn't "bad", and I was careful this entire conversation to not refer to it in that way. You describe games that make use of linearity in a positive way, and that's fine; I envision a successful Pokemon game as one that also contains linear elements.The problem with Pokemon games and their linearity is that the main appeal and drawing force of the games are the Pokemon itself. With low quality campaign design that is "fixed" through handicaps and self-imposed challenges, the only appeal there is to use the Pokemon. Restricting access without including game design that encourages you to wait for those Pokemon (and lose out on the time you would have spent with them) is bad game design.The games would be better suited to give you the option to collect the vast majority of Pokemon as soon as possible if the intention is to play however you want and make your own fun.
>>56203932> I think a retard mashing A on their starter might actually have an easier time than somebody of higher IQ Is this the cope you use to explain why you’re so retarded that you think the gen 5 gyms are hard? KEK
>>56203282Nah, just kill that guy in particular
>>56203953>Linearity being measured by the amount of options you have isn't a preference / opinion, it's a realistic analysis that results from comparing games with a wider variety of options versus ones that have less of them.I'm pretty sure if you told this to anyone who knows what they're talking about they'd assume you fundamentally didn't understand what linear means, but the unfortunate truth is that linearity doesn't care about how many tools you have available to you. In fact, Pokemon aren't the only tools you have in every Pokemon game. Your items or other consumables like Pass/O Powers, the game's gimmick, what other systems the game has (EXP Share or Set/Switch when it was optional), and even what traversal options you have are all variables in solving the problems the game presents you. In spite of this, when it comes right down to it, you almost always have to beat the first gym first to clear some sort of arbitrary roadblock you have no control over.I feel like your major problem isn't that the Pokemon pool is limited, it's that the game design rarely makes use of the limited Pokemon pool to do anything interesting. It's arguable that the GameCube titles handed it one of the better ways, given the bosses are actually designed. The Gen 7 titles try occasionally but only the water and grass trials really stand out, with Ultra Necrozma just being a stat-spike and not much else. On the other hand, when I laid out changes to BW's Pokemon pool in this >>56203634 post, I think I created a genuinely fun and interesting type matchup tutorial for new players, which is a benefit you could only have by limiting the Pokemon pool and having a specific required first gym. Game design can be hard, especially in the moment, but there are solutions to it.>>56203978I never said BW was hard. I will say though, catching a single Pokemon doesn't make it completely trivial. Even when the speedrun went out of the way to catch Excadrill it wasn't always a safe win.
>>56203932>And I left out some stuff like Shopping Mall Ninei know you left it out but even mentioning it feels pretty disingenuous, that would be like saying celadon department store is an optional area, and i say all this as a gen V dickriderthat said just about every pokemon game is linear some maps just have the campaign path make loops back to previous areas to hide it better
>>56204017There's no source for what constitutes a linear vs. non-linear game. Here's what different websites say:>https://blackshellmedia.com/2016/05/15/game-design-open-world-vs-linear/>"To have a linear world means that the player can only wander off so much. There is a leash of sorts, a boundary line surrounding the area where the player is fighting, looting, exploring, purchasing and selling items. This means the game dictates where you should go, and lets the story drive the gameplay."Quote in practice describes the inability to catch any Pokemon you want as linear>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_gameplay>A video game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Each player may take on (or even encounter) only some of the challenges possible, and the same challenges may be played in a different order. Conversely, a video game with linear gameplay will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges: every player faces every challenge and has to overcome them in the same order. Quote in practice describes games that allow you less amount of sequences to catch Pokemon as more non-linear than linear.If one of the franchise's greatest draws and what the game encourages you to do in catching and raising Pokemon is restricted than that would describe the game as more linear.
>>56203376Engagement bait, because "Gen 5 bad" gets (You)s.
>>56204107more like bans lmao
>>56204115Good. They should do it more often and with other gens as well.
>>56203268Corrections1. Starters don't look like shit. Even with weak movepools, Serperior can still be a really good party member.2. The only time the monkeys get used for me is the first gym in BW, from then I box them.3. Boring and ugly? Like 90% of Kanto? Besides some of those are really good for playthroughs and challenge runs4. Agreed5. Agreed wish they evolved sooner.
>>56203439That gen 5 is shit and that 6 is peak?Weird I thought the consensus was the opposite.
>>56203578By trivial do you mean brainlessly easy?Then congrats on being the first person on 4chan to think Unova is easy.
>>56203608Because they logically wouldn't exist in those areas.
>>56204035I only remotely mention it because it's on a route instead of in a town. It's why I didn't mention anything that is explicitly in a city, like a dozen little things to do in many Unova towns, or Lumiose being chock full of 4 different buildings for the same battle type and several nearly identical cafes, or the Battle Institute in either game. One thing I genuinely forgot was the Battle Chateu in XY, even if it does force you into looking in the general direction of it it's not like the pointless daycare tutorial several feet away. Honestly my bad. Still not great that BW beats XY in optional content despite XY being the longer game, and even if you remove some arguable stuff it's still 10 for XY vs 7 for BW which is a really bad ratio for a game that's got twice as many mandatory numbered routes as BW. To put it another way, BW would have one optional area for almost every mandatory route in the game, while XY would have it every other route. It's not evenly distributed of course, but it's an interesting comparison regardless.>>56204188There's not really a good reason Petilill couldn't be in that area. Pidove and Blitzle as well, given they exist just fine on the next nearly identical route. If we're talking balance, I wouldn't have put Petilill on the route either, but it is a sensible choice.
>>56204205>BW beats XY in optional content nope
>>56203643They really need to fix this desu.Every mon should reach its final form by Level 40 (if it evolves by stone or some other method, the player should be allowed to do that around the time they'd be in the 40s). Except psuedos whose first evo should be at around 35 and final one around 50.
>>56203682Define trivial
>>56204210If you consider the post-game (as it's not mandatory), absolutely it does as there's vastly more optional content in BW than XY. If we're just considering the main game, let's consult this post >>56203932 and add Battle Chateau to XY because I forgot. Which is the bigger number, 10 or 11? Or am I ignoring something you consider a big enough deal to matter?
>>56203686It does. Wellspring Cave and the outside portion of Pinwheel Forest. Both giving you a chance at Pokémon that can help you beat the Gym. Roggenrola in Wellspring Cave to resist the normal moves, while Pinwheel has access to Timburr and either Throh or Sawk, each of which have some strong fighting moves.
>>56203686there's a lot of optional areas. Wellspring CaveOpening section of Pinwheel ForestDesert ResortThats just a few
>>56203798Guess that also applies to every other game then.Also my IQ is 127 and I consistently struggle against LenoraI also think Sinnoh is easy af.
>>56204278Sounds like skill issue.
>>56203978Lenora can be very challenging when not overleveled.Her first Pokémon Herdier isn't much of a problem. It can be, but probably won't.The real threat is Watchog, which is actually somewhat powerful at that point. Usually it'll go straight for a full powered Retaliate, which can OHKO many things, except for Roggenrola which resists it. It also likes to spam Hypnosis, which you better be ready for as Cheren gives you some Chesto Berries before.
>>56204107"Gen 5 bad" will absolutely get you a lot of messages, as will "Gen 5 good''
>>56204115I've been banned for saying Gen 5 good
>>56204210Cope.It literally does, and then when you're presented arguments and you just go "nuh uh"
>>56204296I guess majority of the fandom has a skill issue.Also it's more of a luck issue and luck isn't a skill. But responding to it is, which is impossible when you're as unlucky as me.
>>56203268SamurottExcadrillScolipedeReuniclusHaxorus EelektrossMy first White team. Only complaint is that Bravery/Mandibuzz should have been available and evolved earlier, Pidove line is meh.
>>56204484Pretty based teamI think my first Black team wasSerperior Unfeazant TornadusGothitelleGalvantula SawkI replaced Tornadus with Reshiram during the N fight.
>>56204228>If you consider the post-game (as it's not mandatory),Arbitrarily quitting the game part way through doesn't mean the game has more optional content.
>>56204484We doing this now?>Serperior>Stoutland>Chandelure>Scrafty>Haxorus>Jelliecent (I think? Maybe it was Caracosta)
>>56203268>Appeared way too late and take forever to evolve What do you mean I have to work for good and rare Pokemon? Why can't Gamefreak just hand me everything I want?
>>56204824being funneled through a hallway isn’t working for anything
>>56204812I've 100% both games.I think BW has more content overall. It has more legendaries to catch. A whole section of the region to explore which includes the Abyssal Ruins + a few more secrets in already visited areas.Plus the Super Battles in the Subway are way more challenging than anything in the Maison.
>>56204917>I think BW has more content overallOf course you do. You’re a biased retard who’s utterly incapable of judging games objectively and change your definition of what an optional area is based on whatever fits your narrative.
>>56204484Rufflet/Vullaby should've been the regional early route birds instead of Pidove
>>56204932Projecting much?I've literally done everything that both games have to offerAnd guess what. I'm biased towards XY. They were my second games (first being HGSS). Despite the lack of content, I enjoyed them thoroughly.I mostly enjoyed the vibes and a lot of the new Pokémon.
>>56204917>>56205134stop feeding the troll
>>56205134What content does it lack.
>>56205173Well for starters, there's only one brand new location in the post game, Killoude City, which only has the Friend Safari, Battle Maison and Rival Rematches. There are new portions of existing locations, like Terminous Cave.Only has 3 Post Game Legends in 1. Zygarde2. Mewtwo3. One of the Kanto BirdsWhile BW has (note some are technically available before post game, will be marked with *)1. Cobalion*2. Terrakion*3. Virizion*4. Thundurus or Tornadus (Thundurus is White, Tornadus in Black)* 5. Landorus (requires both Thundurus and Tornadus in your party.)6. Reshiram or Zekrom (unlikely but if your PC and party are both somehow full you get a chance to catch it during the post game at Dragonspiral Tower)*7. Kyurem8. Victini (Event only so probably doesn't count. Added it anyway because people will complain)*In terms of locations Unova has the entirety of Eastern Unova, including Black City/White Forest, Undella Town and Lacunosa Town. Undella Town in particular having a Cynthia battle during Summer, access to Abyssal Ruins, which in tern, ties into the Riches.
>>56205298So 1 pokemon = 1 content? Look at the dex sizes again bro...
>>56205298>i-it doesn't arbitrarily put stuff after the credits!>i-i'm only arbitrarily counting legendaries but not the entire rest of the dex because it doesn't fit my narrativeThis doesn't explain what content the game is lacking.
>>56205298Also both gens have post game stories.BW has the player search for 6 of the 7 sages (seeing as Ghetsis is one of them). This usually takes me at least 2 hours.The one in XY is interesting. It introduces Emma and has the player going all over Lumiose City. Takes me 1-2 hours depending on if I'm rushing.Post Game Battle Facilities.Both games have a Battle Institute. To me both are about the same in terms of overall difficulty (interestingly enough, both use similar pools of Pokémon for the trainers, same with the Subway and Maison.BW has the Battle Subway which is technically available in the main game, however the Super Formats are locked to post game.XY has the Battle Maison, locked to post game.Again I think both are comparable in difficulty, maybe giving a slight edge to the Subway with it's bosses.If there's anything I've missed let me know.
>>56205323>flying to 6 different maps and clicking A in front of an NPC takes me 2 hoursOut of all your copes sagefag, this is one of your most hilarious.
>>56205319No.I was just comparing the special encounters like Legendaries, of which BW has many more.>>56205320Actually in terms of overall dex size, Kalos does beat BW. I think BW has a comparable amount post game but during the main game Kalos has like 3x as much.
>>56205298>in ternu be the same retard that say "Also my IQ is 127" ? holy roflilling lol
>>56205320I'm making comparisons between different aspects of content.>>56205325It does when you count the many trainer battles before them. Some of the Sages have a grunt or two battling them and many of the generic trainers are mandatory to get to the sages. Adding that up can take time, especially when the post game trainers tend to be somewhat powerful.
>>56205340No I'm not. Idk what my IQ is, nor do I really care.
>>56205343>I'm making comparisons between different aspects of content.You didn't demonstrate XY having less content. You just demonstrated that XY moves more of its content to before the credits.>It does when you count the many trainer battles before themClicking A in front of 2 NPC shitmons doesn't takes all of 30 seconds. Find a better coping mechanism.
>thread about BW>look inside>deflection to XYI guess Unova fans agree the game would be better if it was less linear then, because clearly they can't actually defend BW.
>>56205351>clicking A in front of 2 NPC shitmons.Sounds like the Essentia storyline. It was basically just running around Lumiose fighting easy af battles usually against Essentia or Xerosic.>>56205356A lot of us can, it's just that people keep deflecting and saying "Muh OpInIoNs"
Can people stop comparing BW and XY for 5 minutes?Besides it's not quantity of content but rather quality, of which (in my opinion) both are roughly equal in.
Genuinely my favorite design to come out of unova alongside Druddigon.
/vp/ not argue about BW and XY for 5s challenge impossible
The amount of logical fallacies in the thread has given me an aneurysm
>>56205452I unironically like Durant because it was my first shiny in.....Terminus Cave in Pokémon X.I had just caught Zygarde, didn't have any Escape Ropes so I slowly made my way out, then found a horde of Durant with a single shiny one.
>>56205449>>56205485>>56205508Is this Requiem from /vp/cord?
>>56203437>Find Pawniard on route 1>It still doesn't evolve until Victory RoadSasuga
>>56205999>find Pawniard early>can use Pawniard early>evolves just in time for E4souka desu nee baka gaijin moo
>>56203270>Tranny anon
Honestly I'd fix Unova by reducing many evo levels.Like you'll get a Hydreigon by Level 50. Volcarona at 35, Bisharp at 30 (if Kingambit existed it'd be at Level 45 rather then tbe whole gimmick.)
>>56206112I'd add Blitzle, Pidove and Roggenrola to Route 1 but make them all somewhat rare.
>>56203665Mankey isn't in the original RB but Brock's pokemon have no rock moves
>>56205351>You just demonstrated that XY moves more of its content to before the credits.Well if the metric was postgame, you got your comparison pretty nicely laid out for you. If you wanna shift to total locations suddenly, BW still has more than XY anyway so your point is moot.
>>56203268>EXCADRILL in boring and ugly>Stoutland in boring and ugly>surprisingly, no Vanilliuxe or Garbodor with them>no GALVANTULA>no GOLURK>no REUNICLUS>no SEISMITOAD>no EELEKTROSS>no Crustle or Leavanny>no fossils>Even Chandelure is missingI need you to kill yourself, ok OP?
>>56203546Really hate how future unfriendly mechanics like those are. I get it was a fad but man.
>>56207019You were asked about content. Not postgame. You deflected to postgame because you realized pretending BW railroading its content to after the credits somehow makes it better is the only argument you have.>BW still has more than XY anyway nope
>>56204484For BW it was>Emboar>Galvantula>Golurk>Bisharp>Whimsicott>SwannaMost of them were a lot stronger than I thought they'd be. Galvantula FUCKS
>>56207177That's not me, but even still:Kalos:Vaniville Town • Aquacorde Town • Santalune City • Lumiose City • Camphrier Town • Cyllage CityAmbrette Town • Geosenge Town • Shalour City • Coumarine City • Laverre City • Dendemille Town • Anistar CityCouriway Town • Snowbelle City • Pokémon League • Kiloude CityRoutes1 • 2 • 3 • 4 • 5 • 6 • 7 • 8 • 9 • 10 • 11 • 12 • 13 • 14 • 15 • 16 • 17 • 18 • 19 • 20 • 21 • 22OthersSantalune Forest • Chamber of Emptiness • Parfum Palace • Battle Chateau • Berry fields • Connecting Cave • Glittering Cave • Reflection CaveTower of Mastery • Azure Bay • Sea Spirit's Den • Kalos Power Plant • Poké Ball Factory • Lost Hotel • Frost Cavern • Lysandre LabsTeam Flare Secret HQ • Terminus Cave • Pokémon Village • Victory Road • Battle Maison • Friend Safari • Unknown DungeonUnova (BW only):CitiesNuvema Town • Accumula Town • Striaton City • Nacrene City • Castelia City • Nimbasa City • Anville TownDriftveil City • Mistralton City • Icirrus City • Opelucid City • Pokémon League • Lacunosa Town • Undella TownBlack City • White ForestRoutes1 • 2 • 3 • 4 • 5 • 6 • 7 • 8 • 9 • 10 • 11 • 12 • 13 • 14 • 15 • 16 • 17 • 18BridgesSkyarrow Bridge • Driftveil Drawbridge • Tubeline Bridge • Village Bridge • Marvelous BridgeOthersDreamyard • Wellspring Cave • Pinwheel Forest • Liberty Garden • Desert Resort • Relic Castle • Battle Subway • Lostlorn ForestCold Storage • Mistralton Cave • Chargestone Cave • Celestial Tower • Twist Mountain • Dragonspiral Tower • Moor of IcirrusChallenger's Cave • Victory Road • N's Castle • Royal Unova • Giant Chasm • Undella Bay • Abyssal RuinsAbundant Shrine • Poké Transfer Lab • P2 Laboratory • Entralink • Unity Towerkalos: 62Unova: 66Go ahead, name any other one
If this is just another Gen 5 vs Gen 6 thread, which I'm more than sure of by now, I want to say that these threads always make the mistake of conflating opinion as fact, which is why there's always a bunch of "nuh-uhs" and deflections towards other elements of each game in every single thread. That said, I did not care for XY.
Is it Yawnfag talking to himself again?Damn the moment he was unbanned he went all in.
>>56207343he can't do that anymore or elae mods will instantly single him out, that's why he's only been replying to other posts and not posting his usual images
>>56207213Why did you remove locations to fit your narrative, sagie?
lol bulbapedia has a wiki page for every individual street in lumioseit's got a page for all the hotels, and then a page specifically for the hotel in lumiosethere's a separate page for the fucking ranch on route 12and then there's a page for kalos as a whole. that isn't in the BW categoryshit's bloated as fuck
>>56208068>AIEEEEE THE CONTENT IN THE GAME DOESN'T COUNT AS CONTENT IN THE GAMEUnova fans are in no position to cry about Bulbapedia bloating content.
>>56208075That image is supposed to help your argument how?
>>56208042I didn't remove anything. Your numbers are unverified. name one place I missed. You cannot. That website counted them wrong, and you can't back it up because you refuse to name one location I didn't name. I showed how I got my number. You did not.>>56208075That's not bloat. What's bloat is calling ever E4 room a separate location in Kalos but not in Unova.
>>56207745Nothing prevents someone from using another device to post with different IPs and bypass the mods' warning. Sure, there might be people who reply to him from time to time, but the way the answers are formated and how it's always a back and forth with the same arguments on both sides, clearly shows it's always this guy talking to himself, or his buddy playing along.It's pure autism.
>>56208139I think you know exactly how it helps my argument.>>56208216>That's not bloat.Yes it is.>TH-THE KALOS AREA DOESN'T COUNT AS A KALOS AREASeethe harder.
Why do things "need" to be non-linear? It isn't exactly a "makes game good" quality to have, and half the time nobody knows what linear and non-linear mean in vidya.
>>56208763>Why do things "need" to be non-linear? Because linearity doesn’t benefit these games in any remote way.
>>56208769Ok, but what about linearity makes the games explicitly beneficial or non-beneficial? What do you mean by "benefit", and what exactly does non-linearity entail for pokemon games specifically?
>>56206268Brock is still a cool first gym. I think all first gyms should be about type match ups.
>>56207177Tbh I personally think BW's content felt high quality while a lot of XY's felt rushed.
>>56207312Yeah these are too opinionated.
>>56207745What images does he post?
>>56208075I'm a Unova fan and I think they bloat content all the time.
>>56209112lurk more
>>56208042How do I get to Faraway Place in XY, then?
>>56209148Isn't Faraway Place just a placeholder for an event?
>>56204812Okay, then I'll add XY's post-game only optional content>Kiloude City>Battle Maison>Friend SafariThat might be padding a little, but I think the two areas in Kiloude do deserve their own listings as there is enough mechanical complexity to each of them. We can argue that Kiloude is mandatory but I think that's unfair, so we'll give it to XY.Now let's pretend every numbered route, town, and bridge are mandatory in BW's eastern Unova, so we'll only consider >Royal Unova>Challenger's Cave>Giant Chasm>Undella Bay>Abyssal Ruins>Abundant ShrineAgain, I'm leaving out nothing places like P2 Labratory or Unity Tower, an Poketransfer Lab is about as much of a location as the Poketransfer application, so I think I'm being pretty fair. That brings Kalos to 13 optional areas, while Unova has 17. Let's compare that to the mandatory route number again, Kalos is at 13 to 22 and Unova is at 17 to 15 (after all, we established Route 16 to 19 were optional before).
>>56209208Yeah, why is it a fucking location on every game page? Same with generic terms like "Hometown", "Pokemon Center", and "Poke Mart". I get listing the entire region, that's technically correct and in GSC/HGSS specifically it really matters (to a lesser extent in FRLG and SV).
>>56209097Tbh I personally think XY's content felt high quality while a lot of BW's felt rushed.For example, I can use different fishing rods in XY and even get shinies with the new chaining mechanics they implemented while BW is so rushed they scrapped two of the fishing rods and locked the last one to postgameFor example, there's a new mechanic in XY where berry trees in the background of battles will drop if I use certain moves, then I can plant those berries in the dedicated berry farming field where I can use a new mutation mechanic to even get brand new berries. Meanwhile BW is so rushed you can't even farm berries and they had to put it into a separate flash game that doesn't even work anymore.For example, in XY I can pet my Pokemon and they all have different preferences and animations and react to different things based on their species, while BW is so rushed that they couldn't even animate Aerodactyl's tail on its single idle animation correctly and they had to badly scale the sprites because they didn't have time to make higher quality back sprites.For example, in XY I can customize my character using all sorts of different clothing and hairstyles, with more options unlocking throughout the game with the unique new style mechanic they put into the game which rewards you for doing various things. Meanwhile BW is so rushed I can't change my character at all. For example, in XY if I feel playing Triple and Rotation battles I can go to the new restaurants in Lumiose City where you can do fun challenges where you have to beat the NPCs in a specific number of turns, which also rewards you with being an easy way to get more money, or go to the postgame Battle Maison where I can play infinite streak battles and fight dedicated bosses for BP. Meanwhile BW is so rushed they limited Triple and Rotation battles to a tiny handful of generic NPCs.
>>56209232based truthposter
>>56209232>Meanwhile BW is so rushed I can't change my character at all.You can change your character's class on the trainer card, which changes how you show up in other player's games in things like Union Room or Entralink. A similar feature was in Gen 4. Furthermore, since Crystal you can pick if you want to play as a boy or a girl. The only games that don't let you change your character at all are the Gen 1 games and GS. If you wanted to say the customization was bad or not to your liking, that's fair. But you can in fact change your character at all.
>>56209242>You can change your character's class on the trainer card,Which doesn't change your character.>Furthermore, since Crystal you can pick if you want to play as a boy or a girlThat's picking your character, not changing your character.Try again, chronotriggertard. Your desperation is showing.
>>56209232It's interesting how XYchads can actually give specific objective examples and comparisons to support their point while BWfags just go "it's better because..um...I felt it was better...it's le peak"
>>56209232None of those are good points
>>56209252>They're not good points because...um...SHUT UP!!!
>>56209232Absolutely based
>>56209232basedthe ugly dex was clearly rushed for designs and typings too
>>56209232That's fine. We all have opinions.To me, the Battle Subway is much harder than the Maison.The Battle Chatalaines even in the Super Battles were brainlessly easy while the Subway Bosses actually felt tough.Plus the generic trainers in the Subway are harder, which is interesting because the pool of Pokémon the trainers use in both facilities is really similar, though the Ai in the Subway is smarter.In terms of animations, I personally think BW did them better. Most of the Pokémon feel alive. They jump around and roar. Some bite the air or swipe with their claws. Meanwhile the 3D models in XY mostly look bland and boring. The colors are washed and most animations are just bland, usually the Pokémon is just standing or flying in place. Many flying Pokémon just glide in place without even moving their wings.XY had a boring as hell and extremely predictable story. BW's was harder to predict and better written.Map design, I'd say they're both about equal here.Music is far better in BW. Almost every song is filled with emotion and soul. Not a single track feels out of place. XY has quite a few boring songs, like it's wild theme and gym leader theme.
>>56209270>That's fine. We all have opinions.Yep. We all have opinions. Some people have the opinion that the Earth is round and other people have the opinion that the Earth is flat.
>>56209246>Which doesn't change your character.It literally does in multiplayer content, I don't know how else I can explain it to you. Again, you can complain it doesn't do it in singleplayer, but the fact remains that it does in fact change your character. Sorry you phrased your statement poorly.
Why do XY fags always grasp at straws?They appeal to thei emotions rather then looking at the facts.It's like Christians arguing with atheists or Republicans arguing with Democrats.
>>56209275In the case of the world being round, that can actually be observed and calculated.
>>56209275The BW one looks fineThe XY one, while in character looks freaky in the face.
>>56209278Yes, just like it can be actually observed and calculated that XY's animations are higher quality and higher effort than BW's and XY's maps are higher quality and higher effort than BW's and XY's battle facilities are higher quality and higher effort than BW's :)>>56209277>They appeal to thei emotions rather then looking at the facts.XYchads aren't the ones littering their posts with subjective buzzwords like "boring", "forgettable", "personally", "I feel", and "soul"
>>56209283>and XY's battle facilities are higher quality and higher effort than BW'sIf it were higher quality than BW, it would have fixed the True Ant cheese, which it didn't, and would have accounted for FEAR given that lower level Pokemon no longer scale up, which it didn't, which in turn makes many of the formats fundamentally broken. Singles, Doubles, Multis with another human, and Triples become trivial, Multis with an AI become more reliable, and Rotations somewhat mitigate True Ant but that's like one and a half formats that aren't completely fucked. It also lacks WiFi mode, a staple of Pokemon games with online since the original Crystal Battle Tower which is weird because XY does online incredibly well otherwise. If it were higher quality it would also have not copy-pasted a ton of trainer text from the previous game (it was re-translated as BW's translation job was rather stiff). But it does have some new stuff, like the only trans character in Pokemon, so congratulations I guess. While copy-pasting Pokemon sets might seem lazy, honestly they were pretty good in Platinum so I don't really see a reason to change them if the Pokemon itself wasn't dramatically changed.
>>56209283I fail to see how the lifeless, colorwashed models in XY are better than BW's actually good sprites. Majority of XY's maps are boring. Especially the towns and caves (except Glittering and Terminus). While a lot of BW's routes are simple in terms of progression but are amazing in terms of side areas, many of which are unlocked later on.And no, XY's battle facilities are overall worse. Majority of the Pokémon used in the Institute and Maison were copied from BW if you think that's high quality then I shudder to imagine what you view as low quality.I see way more XY posts using those words.
>>56209303>lifelessCan you show me where Samurott uses its sword to attack in BW? Surely if the animations are less lifeless there will be an example of this in BW, right?
>>56209312I was referring to the static animations.The ones in XY just stand there emotionless. In BW at least they jump around.In terms of battle animations XY does a lot of them better, except maybe the moves themselves.
>>56209319>w-wait no the animations in the game don't count as animations in the game because they ruin my argumentConcession accepted.
>>56209321That's not what I'm saying.I was specifically referring to the stationary animations.In terms of battle animations XY does them better.
>>56209303>>56209319>>56209328stop feeding the troll
>>56209056Ok but seriously can someone tell me what the fuck nonlinearity is and why its good
>>56209330But it's hard to resist.When people present misinfo, I feel a need to correct it.
>>56209328They're called idle animations you fucking dumbass>But they're in battleYeah, it's fucking weird that they use the same animations for when they want to be pet and when they're in battle, except that for some reason some Pokemon have an entirely separate idle animation for Amie but not all of them.
>>56209336stop being autistic
>>56209328>th-the animations are bad if you arbitrarily ignore almost all the animationsYour posts are worthless.
>>56209337They use the same models but the amie animations aren't used in battle.I've never seen a Pokémon use their amie animations in battle at all in XY.>>56209339I'm sorry for being born this way.
>>56209348As an example, Porygon 2 uses same idle animations for bothhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5atzojCDPhshttps://youtu.be/ERJYuPQh4OY?feature=shared&t=599>But that's SSYes, they used the exact same fucking idle animations in every game after XY with it only really changing around LA and SV.
>>56209347I wish they would stop going after this point about animations because it just exposes them for how hypocritical and needlessly argumentative they truly are.Not sure why it's so hard to accept that the 3D games did a better job with animations as a whole
Remember when this thread was about BW’s linearity and poor Pokemon distribution?
>>56209347No they aren't.
Black/White are better in terms of story, as it's the main focus of the game; and the post game is better compared to X/Y. For interaction, I'd say it's interchangeable; there are some in both games that have good interactions. X/Y has better exploration, because I feel the region is better designed
>>56209370BW1 and 2 have the best story of the series and best main game content.X/Y have the best multiplayer content.If you want story and challenge, X/Y rank among the worst.
>>56209370>X/Y has better exploration, because I feel the region is better designedWould you kindly list some examples, since Yawnfag constantly refuses to I'd like to actually hear from somebody who is willing to engage.
>>56209370>>56209377Black and white has one of the best stories in the game. Also it is one of the most refreshing games, since you only can use Unova Pokemon. XY beats Pokemon BW in multi player content anytime of the day. I will admit that both XY and BW have terrible post game content. BW 2 fixed this problem greatly. The only fairly challenging gym is the second, third, and fourth gym in BW. The gyms in XY are fairly easy.
>>56209381I think Terminus Cave is cool, majority of the routes, except the pointless Route 1. XY Victory Road is better than BW (though not as good as B2W2).Plus Lumiose City is much bigger and more complex than Castelia.
>>56209382Clay is way more challenging than Burgh, but that mostly comes down to Clay using a good Pokemon and Burgh using early game bug types.
/vp/ not appeal to emotions when arguing over which generation is better challenge
>>56209382>Black and white has one of the best stories
>>56209389Honestly forgot about Clay for a moment.I guess he can be quite tough, though if you have a good grass type he should be pretty trivial. Except for the Excadrill but there's already a few fighting or ground types that you could have at this point, maybe even a fire type but that last one's a bit risky.
>>56209403It does to me and many others.Majority of the fanbase think it's the best and I do think there's a goid reason for it.Btw aside from the AZ lore, XY had a mid story
>>56209388>I think Terminus Cave is coolThe fact that the final room is blocked of until post-game just fucks me the wrong way personally. You either go through most of it during your play-through and get cock blocked, or you go in post-game and the rest of the cave is underwhelming. Zygarde early would be fun, post-game dungeon would be fun, but as it stands it's just a nice cave with a bad ending.>majority of the routesI feel like XY's routes excel aesthetically more than mechanically. The best you can hope for is Route 5 where you have a place to test your new rollerskates in a skate park. Route 4 or 8 look great but only play okay, and then you have unfun mechnaics on 9, 13, or 14. It's rare you get to do some considerable optional stuff like Lost Hotel on Route 15 or 16 (I'm a huge Lost Hotel fan), but Route 19 is solid. I dunno if I'd say a majority of the routes are good, but I would say it's inconsistent overall. Sometimes you get a great map, sometimes you get Sinnoh map design.>XY Victory Road is better than BW (though not as good as B2W2).Fair enough, BW's Victory Road does rely on the weird cylindrical structure of it, that does limit design space and a more traditional challenge with a lot of unique areas is the better choice (XY and B2W2 do it quite well).>Plus Lumiose City is much bigger and more complex than Castelia.I feel like I'd like Lumiose better if the camera wasn't all the bad things about controllable cameras with none of the control. That and slightly better signage by using some more particular assets for each area, as it stands being mostly beige is both boring and makes navigation a pain with the jarring camera changes if you make a navigation error in the game with the rollerskates in them. I'd like a few more unique shops and stuff too, the Pokeball and juice shop are nice, but do we need 4 different restaurants the play the same, and tons of nearly identical cafes?
>>56209409>It does to me and many others.Yes, many people think Earth is flat.
>>56209409>Majority of the fanbase think it's the bestHaha lol not after SM and SV stories. It's third or fourth depending on how much you seethe at Galar.
>>56208739>Yes it is.No it's not. Sorry your game is less innovative.>seethe harderYes, it's bloat to count E4 rooms as separate locations in one game but not another. Meanwhile, the actual list still shows that BW has more locations than XY>>56207213
>>56209477>>56208042
>>56209312Jesus christ that looks retarded
>>56209466But SS is one of the worst stories. Like, Lysandre is retarded, but in SS Rose's motivation is basically not explained in game at all and you have to look at ancillary media and make a couple assumptions to understand it. That's not even getting into Bede getting stolen by the Baba Yaga and therefore his plot goes nowhere or Hop stealing Bianca's character arc but skipping every part of the character development that lead up to it. At least XY's many shitty rivals were technically relevant, even if the story had to force it.
>>56209485yeah, samurott is a pretty bad design
>>56208042>>56209148
>>56209347I'm sorry, but having a good, lively animation loop at all times is infinitely better than XY, where a shitty animation loops for 99.999 percent of the time and the actual good animations are locked behind a couple seconds here and there.>>56209403Nothing is actually wrong with this. You can't criticize it without strawmanning.>>56209462>you're just wrong lolnice argument you got there>>56209466It's easily better than Galar, somewhat better than SV, and slightly better than SM. Your personal opinion don't refute the point about majority of the fanbase.
>>56209495You forgot to respond to the post shitting in samurott, sagie.
>>56209481I didn't remove anything. Your numbers are unverified. name one place I missed. You cannot. That website counted them wrong, and you can't back it up because you refuse to name one location I didn't name. I showed how I got my number. You did not.>>56209490I meant the shitty animations randomly switching between shells. 3D was a grave mistake and everyone knows it.
>>56209496You forgot to actually make posts with argumentative substance, yawnie. Your boogeyman posting isn't catching on like you hoped.
>>56209462Yes and those who think the Earth is1. Not in the majority2. Focusing more on opinions and feelings rather than factsBW fans are neither.
>>56209500He's just retarded, he can only identify one actual real poster by their posting style (me), and his insult for me references one of the best JRPGs of all time so people see it and go "wow, Yawnfag must hate video games". It's just a really bad look.
>>56209477What about the quality of the areas rather than quantity?
>>56209503BW fans are both.
>>56209488Who tf calls Sword and Shield 'SS'?EVERYONE calls it either "SwSh" or "Swish"
>>56209490It's not that bad, still better than Empoleon, Feraligatr, Quaquaval and Inteleon.
>>56209514I do because it's an acronym, you silly billy
Yawnfag is spreading itself thin i guess, this is the only ones of their current threads that they're really shitting up.
>somewhat better than SV, and slightly better than SM. Your personal opinion don't refute the point about majority of the fanbase.
>>56209500Going “nuh uh” while repeating the same debunked arguments isn’t “argumentative substance”, sagie.
>>56209511Explain how they are?I'll explain how they aren't.1. Majority of the fanbase says that Gen 5 is either the best, their favorite or one of the best. The point being that they say it's one of the best.2. It's backed up by countless sources, if you were to watch a video about the best things about BW and the video mentions a thing, you could very easily boot the game up and find the thing.
>>56209519SS is also an acronym for Soul Silver as well you know. It'll be confusing.
>>56209534You and your reddit friends aren’t the majority of the fanbase and your shitty 10 minute youtube videos where you go “THIS IS THE PEAK” because of a basic bitch thing every other game does better doesn’t mean anything.
>>56209527I'm pretty sure that's Yawnfag's deal, as seen in this entire thread>>56209540Ah yes, who can forget iconic Soul Silver characters, Rose, Bede, and Hop. I'm not sure why they didn't put them in Heart Gold. I'm also not sure why people are only talking about Soul Silver and not Heart Gold, and how it's the worst game when people say HGSS are the best. Also, it's really confusing how Soul Silver has the same acronym as Silver and Sapphire.>>56209546Given Yawnfag is the only one ever talking about XY at this point, I'm pretty sure nobody else cares about it. Shame, it had good online. Oh well, we got ORAS which is better in every single way, we did alright.
Top 7 aint that bad doe but Kinnoh wins yet again.
Why do the Japanese love DP so much anyway? Is it just the online? Have they not played it recently? Both of those were really true on here for a while, but in a post-BDSP world there's a lot more criticism of it. Is it just that it was the best selling post-Pokemania pre-Switch title? Because Platinum is better in every way that matters, and even that's completely made irrelevant by HGSS (sorry Sinnoh fans).
>>56209579Japs know third version is a scam so they always rate it lower on principle. Shame westerners havent caught on yet.
>>56209546Try- 4chan- Twitter- Serebii forums- Bulbagarden forums- Reddit- Amino- YouTube comment sections- GameFaqs- Pokémon Community And no, they don't just go this is peak about one or two things. They bring up multiple things that Gen 5 does best from many different perspectives.
>>56209585First versions are the real scam. Retards paid twice as much for the same game twice. DLC is the worst of both worlds though, you get a shitty main story that has zero improvements, and then a thing that's maybe okay on the side but you have to pay 1.5 games for it. Give me the .5 of a game on it's own, I love stand alone DLCs. Blood Dragon is a classic at this point, and if we're only considering Switch titles Torna the Golden Country is quite solid (especially compared to how scuffed Xenoblade 2 was at launch). That also having been said, the future for Pokemon should probably look towards titles lime Minecraft or Terraria and just update a single game for a while. With Pokemon being a Nintendo title it's probably a good idea to end support when the console generation is over, but there's still some precedent for it working fairly well with New Horizons and the Splatoon titles.
>>56209606Didnt read your cope post.
>>56209613I know you don't read the posts you respond to Yawnfag, you don't have the reading level to understand most of them.
Can we not argue please
>>56209625the dude is falseflagging and self-replying, don't bother
>>56209625I don't really see any arguing, all i see is seething.
>>56209676I see both.Both sides have pretty decent arguements but both sides seethed a lot.
>>56203268Literally didn't pick any of those.
>>56209591
>>56210185Who made this?How many people were surveyed?
>>56210219>Who made this?GameFAQs.>How many people were surveyed?It literally shows in the image how many people were surveyed.
>>56210226GameFaqs? I never knew they did this stuff.Also I cannot find how many people actually were in it anywhere.
Gen 5 was immediately hated and it wasn't loved until Gen 8 or 9.Gen 6 was immediately liked and wasn't hated much until Gen 8.
>>56209606> DLC is the worst of both worlds though, you get a shitty main story that has zero improvements, and then a thing that's maybe okay on the side but you have to pay 1.5 games for itAs opposed to games like Platinum where I get a shitty main story with even fewer improvements and have to pay 2 games for it?
>>56210247>>56209606>>56209585>>56209579I know a guy who didn't buy BW because he was expecting Grey and didn't buy XY because he was expecting Z.
>>56203268almost accurate but the pokemon in the fourth row do look like shit
>>56209625Bro it's one schizo talking to himself. He has been at it for months. Don't trust me? Check archives for threads about BW vs XY, Berry farming, plant/ice types debate threads and JRPG being good/bad overall and you'll see the same threads, same replies, same format of answers.The deal with the mods was probably he is allowed to have one schizo thread every two days, since last time he was shitting up multiple threads before getting banned.
>>56210396I thought the thread was deleted yesterday lol
>>56210396It does make sense, especially with how quick these argument respinses are.
>>56210396Why would they allow one guy to have his own meltdown thread?
>>56210396I am not sure it's really one person. Franky for such dedication it has to be multiple people.Though he got bannef on thursday and for three days there were no flamewar threads about XY or BW so... It could genuinely be one person
>>56210406Because the mods are retarded.
>>56210411It could be a guy who occasionally gets his friends together.
>>56210406I'm joking when saying that,but I suppose that as long as he doesn't pollute other threads, mods will tolerate his behavior, it's a small board and, frankly, it's up to us to not engage with these obvious baits.Where it becomes off-limits is when he actually invades a thread going supposedly well, and tries a 5v6, Ice and Plant debacle, campaign sucks, 3v3 VGC only true format or whatever shit he wanna talk about and fucks up a thread.
>>56210396Really I just enjoy the yawnfag lore from these threads.
>>56210430He's really like a second LeafFag
>>56210468Stop it Shaun.
>250 posts>nobody has explained what nonlinearity is or why its good
>>56210864
>>56210892That's it? A split path?
>>56210893>That's it? Nonlinearity?
>>56210396Well, he is currently shitting up another thread so...
>>56210894I don't understand, what about a split path makes it good? It's just a split path. I was expecting something more in-depth.
>>56210901>I don't understand, what about a split path makes it good?It makes it a video game where you can actually make choices about what to do instead of a glorified movie.
>>56210908So you're saying that linearity is the opposite of choice? Of having free will in a videogame?
>>56203565The trade obedience clause is now applied instead to every pokémon that has been caught above a certain level.No gyms done means if you catch a pokémon above lvl15, it will disobey you until you have enough badges to clear the criteria.
>>56209525kek are you gonna hang yourself due to that recent poll now? Gen 5's story is accepted as the best.>>56209527Good thing that's all you're doing. I actually respond to the substance of posts I quote. All you do is point at nonexistent boogeymen and seethe about irrelevant bullshit.>>56210185Kek for someone arguing against ad populum and lack of reasoning, pulling out this shit is the most retarded goalpost shifting I have ever seen. Sorry you can't defend using substance.>>56210239Don't know what to say. Initial vocal minoritites don't always define the "default opinion" for long. The truth will come out eventually.>>56210247>shitty main story with even fewer improvementsmain stories were better and more complete back then, so no>have to pay two games for itnope, just one. You don't have to buy every phone model every year to access all the features of the latest one. You don't have to buy every new car model to access all the features of the latest one. Yet for some reason you use this logic when comparing two games.
>Gen 5's story is accepted as the best.This is false btw.
>>56211039>”gamefaqs thinks gen 5 is one of the best!!”>proof is posted gamefaqs actually thinks gen 5 is one of the worst>”Y-YOU’RE MOVING GOALPOSTS!!”You aight, sagie? Do you need your meds?
>>56211608Then which story does the community call the best?>>56211629>muh small sample size poll from XY's FOTM release window specifically is indicative of what the site thinks overallb8
>>56211847SM and SV.
>>56211850Some people say that, yes, but more people think it's BW.
>>56211855>but more people think it's BWNo they dont. You made this up.
>>56211871Yes they do. You made this up>>56211850
>>56211878>Yes they doCorrect. Glad we agree SM and SV have the best story.
>>56211887>Correct.You just said correct to the statement, "more people think it's BW". Thanks.
>more people think it's B-ACK!https://gamerant.com/pokmon-best-stories-series/Imagine losing to Sinnoh twice lol
>>56211850lol
>resorting to childish semanticsfagging and lumping two games together to dethrone BW's story consensusBetting that this post is Yawnfag woudn't even yield a penny return
SV does, objectively speaking, have the best story in the series
>>56211910thisIt’s the only game where the characters actually feel like real people instead of one dimensional cardboard
>>56211910>>56211917>replying to yourself
>>56211910>gen 1 freedom and gen 7 character writingOther gens never had any chance really
>>56211923
>>56211901>one man's opinion mattering for fuckkek here's some morehttps://www.nintendolife.com/features/every-pokemon-game-narrative-ranked-from-best-to-worsthttps://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/p57fi8/which_game_has_the_best_story/?rdt=63796https://screenrant.com/every-pokemon-plot-ranked-basic-to-awesome/
>>56211910>>56211917>>56211924>>56211931Stop coping via samefagging, separating a story into three parts because you couldn't write one properly interacting with itself isn't a good thing. It's just lazily splitting up stories and making them all even blander by taking longer and not interacting with one another really at all.
>>56211938SV has three good stories while BW couldn’t even manage one good story.
>>56211933>all before SV>BW outed as reddit gameL M A O talk about self burn
Every character in these games are generic as fuck and have no characterization outside of the five or six lines that ever get written for any of them. Granted, you fuckers need to argue about story because less than half of you have ever picked up a book, let alone a real RPG.
>>56211953Sounds like cope to me
>>56211953SV’s story is better than most other RPGs I’ve played.
>>56211958Name one interesting thing the plot does that hasn't been done better somewhere else.
>>56211966The main antagonist of the story being dead and replaced by an AI who actually has better morals than the antagonist.
>>56210396>He has been at it for monthsYears actually, since SM release.
>>56211970You mean that AI robot that came from who fucking knows where, lied to you about his true nature the whole game, wants you to shut down a machine, and then attacks you for trying? Yeah, great fucking storytelling.
>>56212016Yeah, absolute kino.
>>56212019You'd think so because you're mentally five.
>>56212016Yes. I’m glad you’re learning.
>>56212016>waah my adopted dad rapes my green haired asshole and um like....free the pokemon man!Yeah, great fucking storytelling.
>>56212025Projecting.
>>56212030What makes you think I'm one of the ones saying Black and White had good storytelling? My thesis is that all of these games have the depth of a puddle because they're made to be read by children. If you think the stories are deep, it's because you are a child yourself.
>shitty unoriginal bait thread gets up to 300+ posts>fun pokemon threads barely gets any bumpsThis board is dead.
>>56212056? how is it bait? It was actually pretty good discussion until sagefag and chronotriggerfag felt the need to deflect to XY and derail the thread into genwar shitflinging.
>>56212072OP, no one's buying your made up boogeyman.
>>56212079t. sagefag
>>56212081>getting mad about being sagedKWAB
>>56212056This, the current state of the franchise doesn't warrant a whole fucking board. Put it out of its misery already.
>>56212105>I'm mad about stantler being cutno one cares
Well, now that we're basically at the end of this thread, I've atleast learned to disregard "linearity" as a complaint. Nobody knows what it means or what it does.
Well, now that we're basically at the end of this thread, I've atleast learned to embrace "linearity" as a complaint. Unova fans can't actually defend it as a good thing because they had to resort to using whataboutism and deflecting to XY.
>>56212384>>56210892
>>56212392Back to your whipping station, SISSYza
>>56212392Oh no....yawnCHAD's on his villain arc
>>56212392parroting is an admission of defeat
>>56212392holy fucking based>>56212384cringe tryhard
>>56212400Ok, but what about the top image makes it good? If the answer is just choices, then you already had that in pokemon games since Red and Blue.
>>56212384Based Originator>>56212392Cringe Plagiarist
>>56212445Red and Blue is like the top. Black and White is like the bottom.
>>56212072>chronotriggerfag felt the need to deflect to XY and derail the thread into genwar shitflinging.Absolutely not the case, my first post in the thread was >>56203552 where I listed several games, and only mentioned Yawnfag, not XY specifically. Unless you mean Yawnfag is explicitly only interested in XY, which seems unlikely as he enjoys bringing up USUM a lot to say he enjoys playing it like a literal child and somehow has difficulty with it.
>>56211945Kek what a joke of a statement. Muh bullies, muh sick dog, and muh WANNA BE THE VERY BEST aren't anywhere near good stories. The story of BW masterfully weaved these three together instead of letting them crumble separately. It made a plot representative of every conflict ever.>>56211950>all before (game with agreed upon worse story)this doesn't matter>reddit being 1 or 3 sources being bad when the other anon only used one single person as a source, much less from gamerant of all placesthe self burn started with (You)>>56212016>>56212030Funny how SV was accurately described, but the moral qualms of BW have to be strawmanned to make them seem bad.>>56212072>shitfling about BW, Gen 5 games, older games in general, and """sagefag""" boogeymen>people ignore and compare BW's linearity to several other games>hyperfixate on only XY being mentioned and ignore the rest to manufacture the "insecure unovafag" narrativefuck off already, kid>>56212384>>56212392>>56212400>>56212468BW has plenty of optional exploration. Just because the overall map shape doesn't have two main paths you could go, doesn't mean it doesn't have abundant sidetracks that give you choices. The argument of linearity is moot unless you actually demonstrate it being a real problem beyond cope-ious conjecture of this thread.
>>56212468Red and blue doesn't have mienfoo, pawniard, or rufflet. Seriously though what the fuck do you mean by this linearity shit
>>56212519>>56204091
>BW has plenty of optional exploration. Yeah the options are>go straight pathor>get blocked by dancing menlmao
>>56212535So BW is fine because that isn't restricted at all.>>56212574>muh roadblocksexists in both "linear" and "nonlinear" games (you consider them such) and have no bearing on options and choices. Sorry you fail to understand the argument you started.
>>56212621>isn't restricted at allHow can i fight Elesa before Burgh?
>>56212621>So BW is fine because that isn't restricted at all.There are clear restrictions in BW when it comes to the ability to catch any Pokemon you want in the form of roadblocks that halt progression.>exists in both "linear" and "nonlinear" games (you consider them such) and have no bearing on options and choices.Roadblocks do have a bearing on options and choices as you can not get past them without completing some other objective rather than having the freedom to get to where you want otherwise.
>>56212535>finally a fucking answerI skimmed Wikipedia and read the article, and I think I see what people mean about it. I think with pokemon games it isn't as black and white (harhar) as linear and nonlinear. Every single mainline pokemon game, every single one, allows you to catch whatever you please at any given route with a limited pool of encounter tables per route. You could take a pidgey here, caterpie there, get a bunch of the same mon in one area or get a stronger version of the mon later, and nothing could tell you "hey, you can't have that one in your party". It's not about having WHAT pokemon, but WHEN, and to a point the player has free reign over using what pokemon in what battles, and thats not counting transferring between games. So I'm assuming that what people mean by linearity in the context of pokemon aren't how to get past challenges and roadblocks, but when and where those challenges and roadblocks are. Is that right?
>>56212678I would agree with that being the general idea behind it. If you are in anyway restricted from accessing and using any Pokemon you want from the start of the game then you have restrictions and ultimately linear game design at play.In theory, linearity is a great tool that can create a more rigid structure and placing certain Pokemon to be available after certain points can be a measure to create a more fun and difficult game. However, in practice, Pokemon games tend to rely on you self-handicapping yourself in order to get a reasonable experience.In the example of BW, you have 5 evolutionary lines restricted to its Victory Road. By that point in the game, the main story is nearly complete and you lost all that time you could've experienced with those 5 lines for no real legitimate reason and it's why the game receives flak for this choice.
>>56212749*Victory Road is 4, while Route 10 before it includes three more to make it 7. Wasn't sure if you could access Route 10 before defeating the Opelucid Gym, so didn't include the 3 but made a mistake in counting.
>>56211039It's not a vocal minority.I mean it could be, but I've seen statistics from polls done in different communities at different times.Thousands of people voted in one on Serebii forums soon after BW came out, only about 200 people out of 4k voted that they liked it, the rest hated it.Now though, do a poll on whether BW is good and more people will say they like it compare to those who say they don't.
>>56211608It really is accepted as the best. Join any Pokémon community, do a poll, leave it for a few hours and check back, most likely the top answer will be Gen 5 with 7 and 9 trailing behind.
>>56211039Initial sample sizes gives an idea of what tbe community likes.Doing a larger poll throughout different parts of a community and checking the results after a few hours or days will give a better idea.I've done so many polls on various topics and most only get a few hundred votes, but I have had polls with over 50k votes before. Though that was because I forgot about it and people advertised it on other communities and I ended up seeing an ad for it like a week later.
>>56212678Continuing off of this: I don't believe that linearity and nonlinearity are end-all-and-be-all of good or bad games. They're the same as any other tool for making videogames, and they can be helpful or a hinderance in certain aspects. This thread was probably related to BW the first, so I'll start with that. Like >>56212749 said, I believe its LINEARITY in pokemon availability specifically was a hinderance, more on experienced players than new ones. It was a bold move having a limit of only new pokemon at the time. If you found new favorites, great, but if you somehow didn't like any of them you were just kinda told to go fuck yourself if you couldn't transfer, which was thankfully remedied in the sequel. I also believe that Johto's NON-LINEARITY in the second half was a hinderance. After Ecruteak, the game overcompensates for the possibility of going off course by adjusting each path to be tackled at the same level, which comes back to bite the player hard when by the time they're done with the branching paths, there is a steep jump from Johto's otherwise easygoing pace starting from Clair to the Champion. Usually by that point, the player's pokemon might feel weak, and wild pokemon caught later like in Ice Path would have a lot of work to do to keep up. This was what "memecurve" used to be understood as before shitposting and bad faith arguments, a big jump from piss easy boss fights like Chuck into DRAGONS. I think both linear and non-linear pokemon games have their place, but meeting in the middle about it would be ideal, at least to me.
>>56212916>non linearity is bad because…the game might actually be challenging!So non linearity is objectively better for pokemon, got it
>>56211950There's not a lot of statistics from post SV.All the popular polls were pre-SV.
>>56212072Why did they get those names?
>>56212894This is false btw.
>>56212954sagefag got his name because he always tries to respond to threads he’s assblasted about at the last second while saging to get the last word in, hoping no one sees his posts to respond back.He tried to do it here >>56212857 but he was so fucking angry that he forgot to sage and accidentally bumped the thread kek
>>56212511100% agreeLet's not forget the projecting in posts like this>>56212392Where they say Univa fans can't defend it, when all I've seen are Unova fans defending well and Kalos fags failing to understand.
>>56212954sagefag would wait hours before responding to yawnfag's posts and sage them to try to get the last word in.chronotriggerfag is the guy who gushes about chrono trigger and how well paced the game is through some gamedev analysis website to defend unova. he's the guy who posts walls of text and has that smarmy writing style (he's all over this thread)i thought they were the same person, but I guess yawnie is making a distinction now lol
>>56212956Oh really? How so?
>>56212922I don't think conditioning a player into piss easy braindead bossfights and then to suddenly throw endgame threats makes for a good challenge. That's just being a dick.
>>56213011Common sense
>>56213016>>56213067Weird, I'm using commen sense right now and can't see the problem.
>>56213503*common.Accidentally misspelled it.Only correcting because so many people go >minor spelling mistake>I win.
>>56213503>common sense>in this day and ageYou could just say you disagree because of vibes
>>56212922No, in fact I'd say Clair is at an appropriate level for where she is in the game. It's just that everything before that is really low level, so you'll be overleveled for everything else and at worst barely underleveled for Clair. Even increasing the average level of the Rocket Takeover section of the game would help smooth it out a bit, but for some reason they're about the same level as the non-linear segments.
>>56213693They do all of this and then gatekeep Ice Path and the Route 45 Blackthorn side to 7 badges. It pisses me off so much
>>56213659I don't disagree because of vibes.I'm going based off of research and observation.
>>56213703HGSS blocks it off until after the Rocket Takeover but doesn't actually increase the levels of anything in any meaningful way, meaning it's the same barely hitting 30 the game has been since you finished Ecruteak. Like, I get the original GS was down to the wire because Masuda wanted to hit while the fad was still going on, and Crystal was made before they realized how to make good third versions with Emerald and later Platinum, but HGSS doesn't really have a convincing excuse besides not wanting to fuck up the existing balance. Which I guess is technically valid, as I mentioned you're probably not going to be that underleveled against Clair unless you're using a ton of Ice Path Pokemon (and you might very well be using one once you realize it's a Dragon gym) but it's still the least fun part of an otherwise good game.
>>56213746> I'm going based off of research and observation.>>>56213503>Weird, I'm using commen sense right now and can't see the problem.You just said it was vibes a post ago.
>>56213779>but HGSS doesn't really have a convincing excuse besides not wanting to fuck up the existing balance.This is why I give HGSS such a hard time about the little things, as much as I like playing it. I think if they took the ragecandybar roadblock to Clair's gym instead of the entire route to the Ice Path, gave you rock climb early (around 3rd-ish) gym, and made trainer rematches not ass cancer to engage with, it'd do a lot to soothe those flaws
>>56213786I didn't.That post says nothing about vibes.
>>56213822don't be a pedantic autist.
>>56213837Explain how I'm being pedantic because I fail to see it.
>>56213886"Common sense" isn't based on objective truth so much as it's assumptions that are reinforced by social approval and bias. It used to be "common sense" that putting leeches on your skin and not washing your ass were A-OK. You didn't literally say "vibes" but you came to the conclusion that I'm wrong simply because I don't agree with your bias. You're being pedantic by taking every word to their most illogically literal conclusion, and then trying to split asshairs over minor discrepancies like the dictionary definition of "common sense". You pedantic autist.
>>56213944Pfft no.I'm not disagreeing based on biases. I'm disagreeing based on evidence and observation.
>>56213983That aren't just your biases, I'm sure.
>>56214045I try my best to keep my biases out of things. I find that when I do, it becomes easy to weigh evidence.
