While there are many who shit on Gen 7 and Sun and Moon What would you say Sun and Moon did right?
>>56216401It had soul unlike gen 6, 8 and 9.
>>56216401A lot actually. The world, cool characters and really solid monster designs.The archipelago feature was also very cool use of 2screens
>>56216401No longer needing HM slaves
>>56216401Loved the Team Skull dialogue
>>56216401Character designs, music, Team Skull was actually funny, and trials were an interesting sidegrade to gyms
>>56216401Everything about Gen 7 was great, except the game design, which admittedly is a huge fucking deal.
>>56216401i had lots of fun with battle royales. i spent hours and hours doing those after the credits
>>56216401SOS chaining is great.
>>56216401One of the only two gens with good writing (the other being gen 9) and the most difficult gen in the series because they finally made proper boss fights instead of lazily copying Kanto.
>>56216401Everything about Gen 7 is great except the games themselves.
>>56216529>good writingno, lol
>>56216401the characters and pokemon look nicemaybe the story was good but it was so gay and boring i can't remembereasily the worst games with the least replayability
>>56216401I can't remember. Why are a bunch of harmless kids ostracized and forced to live in an abandoned containment town? I think Guzma jobbed to Hala or something and Guzma had a meltie.
>>56216401Team Skull was great and nothing after them in pokemon could one-up their dumbass hooligan schtick. Murdering HMs in cold blood is a net positiveI like how the characters lookI also like the idea of regional forms to breathe new life in otherwise forgettable pokemon
>>56216420Add 3 and 4 as well.
>>56216401It definitely did characterisation and world building right
>>56216401Honestly? It's the one pokemon game with no redeemable qualitiesThey removed a fuck ton of featuresThey made it more linear than any other gameThe dialogue was excessive despite being poorly writtenIt was too easyI genuinely struggle to find anything good about it.I guess it gave us a wrestler in smash for the first time?
>>56216447>>56217950As somebody who is probably one of the biggest Alola fans on this board, I'm starting to think that removing HMs wasn't actually a good thing. I don't have many gripes with the region map in this game, there's quite a bit of side paths that open up after you unlock more ride mons, particularly on the first and third islands, but there's nothing that stops the player from accessing those areas other than simply progressing through the story normally. The thing about HMs is that they at least create a modicum of challenge by forcing the player to use typically shitty moves in order to progress through some maps, which means you're not going to have whatever four moves you want on every pokemon in your party. Removing HMs means the game becomes even more braindead than it already was before because now you can put whatever four moves you want on ever party member with no drawbacks. The introduction of amie/refresh affection mechanics don't help either
>>56218116>It's the one pokemon game with no redeemable qualities>They removed a fuck ton of featuresthe switch games have gone as far as removing wild battles, removing the option to turn off the exp share, removing battle facilties, removing certain moves like Pursuit and Signal Beam and even removed fucking set mode but you're trying to argue that those games somehow aren't as bad as SM?>They made it more linear than any other gameit's no different than the two gens that came right before it in this regard. also linearity doesn't inherently make a game bad provided you can make replays different by using different mons
>>56216401While the story cutscenes were way too fucking intrusive on the gameplay, the actual story and characters were pretty much all top notch.Not sure about USUM though, I haven't played them yet but I heard they fucked up some stuff, Lusamine and Lillie in particular.
>>56217929>forcedThey weren't really forced to IIRC, they were just shitters upset about flunking out of the island challenge and chose to join a gang rather than growing up and getting a real job.
>>56216401The graphical style. SM was probably the one time Game Freak really nailed the visuals, down to the UI. The games are just very pleasing to look at, which makes me all the more sad that actually playing through them was a fucking miserable experience.
>>56216401I think that it's so unfortunate how unreplayable they made these games because I occasionally get the urge to replay them then I'm instantly reminded why I haven't (I tried once) But it's not that they didn't do anything right, or I wouldn't even get the itch. >last good batch of new pokemon so only game to use them >last memorable characters >one of the best villains and most entertaining teams, even down to the grunts>I personally thought the story, while the delivery of it is specifically what kills the game, was certainly interesting >being the first champion and fighting challengers to defend your title >the visuals are wayyyy better than 6th gen >map does have some areas to come back to, side areas, some flavor, I think the 3rd island maybe? was pretty good>still had all the pokemon, though this isn't really to it's favor because it's not like you'd replay the game to use different ones>still had a battle facility That's everything I can think of without looking at other replies
>>56216401As linear as Alola is, it has a lot of nice and varied settings like Vast Poni Canyon and Thrifty Mega MartTeam Skull was funny and memorable because they're a bunch of disappointments who found each otherStarted the trend of regional variantsUltra Beasts were a really cool conceptThey did a good job with the cameos they brought in (I didn't recognize Burnet and I played Dream Radar enough to get the HA Legendaries)>>56217929They failed the trials and then they all moved there and turned it into a dump. Po Town has the only pokemon center that makes you pay to heal because they have to keep the lights on.https://youtu.be/c2BrcxtjAqc
>>56218116you are so crazy wrong and since you bring up fucking smash I'm kinda thinking maybe you didn't even play SM>>56218879YES finally somebody with sense that isn't using the rationality of their kid self. I've been arguing this point since before they even removed hms, when people would say they should and hope for it to happen. Clearly they won, yay us.
>>56219048>the only pokemon center you have to pay to heal cause they have to keep the lights on HOLY SOULLLLLLLL
>>56218879Pretty much, though I'd say removing HMs did play a large part in giving Gen 7 the hallway simulator moniker.The way to fix HMs would have been to simply allow you to forget them at any time and to make relearning moves a bit easier. Or if they're willing to go a step further introduce four out of battle only move slots that also work for moves like sweet scent and milk drink.
>>56218879>The thing about HMs is that they at least create a modicum of challengeplaying the game like a retard on purpose to pretend it’s well designed != challenge
>>56218116This. Alola is pure dogshit from beginning to end.
>>56217887yes, lol
Is Gen 7 the one gen you could remove and nothing would change? Not even Z-Moves stuck around kek
>>56219162gen 5
>>56219175hidden abilities and infinite TMs THOUGH
>>56219214all shit things
>>56218981
>>56216401It werks, unlike the switch games.(U)S/M also had every pokemon at the time in the game.Which really shouldn't be a stand out feature, but seeing as it's the last mainline title to do that I suppose it should get some credit for failing to fuck up.
>>56219280You defend infinite TMs in every other context
>>56219280better than uh......mantine surfing lol
>>56216401Finally making new regional dex entries for everything. A lot of them were pretty fun too.
>>56219288He's right. Literally all they had to do for the Switch games 8 was USUM but in HD.
>>56219288literally what's even wrong with this other than the 3DS not having the screen res you want
>>56216529Ideas were good. Storytelling and unfinished ideas though made it really weak story overall
I want to fuck Guzma I NEED to fuck Guzma
>>56219425the eyes are pretty shit, just like yours.
The game was more challenging than the rest, which was cool even though getting rid of gyms made it less cool. >did rightI guess they made their new battle gimmick so abhorrently awful that it never came back, so it didn't ruin the series as a whole like Mega and Maxing did.
>>56216401Lusamine, Mimikyu, and Nebby not staying in the bag.
It's the last one which felt like Pokémon (legends aside). Gen 8 and 9 have this weird woke style where everyone looks like a clown and finding relatively normal looking / appealing people is a challenge
>>56219681lillie’s gay hallway escort doesn’t feel like Pokémon at all
>>56219652This "challenging" meme needs to die. The game is just designed around what you are given, both in terms of available Pokemon and things like Z moves. And you can still cheese it if you aren't intentionally turning EXP share off and ignoring Amie.
>>56219689>SM is so challenging guys>the games where X items became +2 instead of just +1
Sun and Moon were shat on way too hard by the community, mainly because of the fallout from the events that had transpired at the end of gen 6. Worse, many people were resentful over the fact that Zygarde and Magearna were punted over to gen 7 without a third Kalos game.The games themselves were fine
>>56219605?
>>56219897No self-respecting human being ever uses X items
>>56219907the games are boring dogshit
>>56218879>The thing about HMs is that they at least create a modicum of challenge by forcing the player to use typically shitty moves in order to progress through some maps, which means you're not going to have whatever four moves you want on every pokemon in your party. Removing HMs means the game becomes even more braindead than it already was before because now you can put whatever four moves you want on ever party member with no drawbacksHMfags are the most absolute fucking delusional, stockholm syndromed posters on this board, holy shit.
>>56216401Simple as.
>>56219897I didn't even know what the fuck
i think i’d rather carry around a nigger mon to break rocks and surf that wear this gay sped shit in trannylola
>>56219897I played Sun blind without an exp share, Z-moves, or items in battle (which I do in every game for fun). Mimikyu, Nanu, Guzma 3 and Lusamine 1 all kicked me in the teeth. Kahili's Mandibuzz was also a massive cunt. Considering my Krookodile was speedcrept by Kukui's Decidueye, those beefed IVs were no joke.I lost to that Guzma fight too after Masquerain got the double flinch with air slash.
>>56219973If you limit yourself you can make any game hard tho. Like my recent Plat run had retrying Fantina, Wake and Cynthia a lot because I went in no items/set mode/not ever allowed to out level bosses, no starter, and skipped on Starly/Luxio/Budew who would be useful at least early on.
>>56219990>no items/set mode/not ever allowed to out level bossesThis is just normal self-respecting human playstyle. If anyone on this board doesn't abide by this they have not beaten any game.
>>56219990No items in battle is like the basic bitchbabby bare minimum self-challenge and doesn't even register on the self-challenge autism spectrum as opposed to nuzlockes, no pokemon centers, monotype, etc. Plenty of people play without using items in battle, especially the hardcore animefags that play Yugioh on the side.If anything, these kind of runs are the perfect measure for a pokemon game's difficulty.
>>56219996Doubt it's actually how people play it around here, but I can agree with the sentiment.>>56220005Set mode also, but still it is a self-imposed challenge. >If anything, these kind of runs are the perfect measure for a pokemon game's difficulty.Hard disagree, casual run is the actual metric. Which usually means in the very least items will be used and EXP share stays on.
>>56220005>>56220016it doesn't matter what method you use to measure pokemon's difficulty as long as you're consistent across games
>>56220029It matters when somebody tells me SM is supposed to be difficult outside of doing a challenge run. Also idk about you but I have played it in different ways. Casual runs with items and the box legendary, the basic challenge ruleset mentioned above with variations including w/ trades or no trades to use exclusives or evos, a shitmon who happens to be a favorite to replace the starter by using randomizers, sometimes just giving myself the entire planned team at lv5 and lowest evo stage right at the beginning, etc.
>>56220038Playing the game without items isn't a considered a real challenge run.
>>56220064Why exactly would it not be a self-imposed challenge when not only the mechanic is there staring in your face at all the times, but also boss trainers do use items?>>56220077Shut up Yawn
>>56219689>use available pokemon>die because half of them are slow>use z-move>does nothing or the totem pokemon uses protect>ally pokemon heals it>diemeanwhile gen 5 I just mash with any pokemon including ones with type disadvantages and I still somehow win because of how fucking weak the npc pokemon are.
>>56219498>it’s unfinished but I won’t actually elaborate what was unfinished because I need to keep pretending gen 5 has good writing
>>56220080"Boss trainers" can't use items on Pokémon that are not currently deployed, they have a very small number(at most 4) and specific predictable usage timings.The mechanic is there, but it is dishonourable; this is simply intuitively understood among us. No further reasoning is needed.
>>56220101>The mechanic is there, but it is dishonourableI mean, I agree but not taking advantage of a mechanic is still restricting yourself for the sake of challenge, hence a challenge run.If you want to know why I don't do Nuzlocke instead, I dislike the concept of having pokemon "die" when they faint and it's important to me to cherrypick which mons I want to use, be it for the entire run or just to deal with a specific section. Like in RBY/FRLG I always like to use Butterfree early because it's a cool mon, but I have only done one run when it stays on my team until the hall of fame. Same for Vivillon in XY
>>56220110I agree, I haven't done a nuzlocke yet either. I'm considering trying one soon but I think the games are fun as they are and restricting teambuilding and many strategies like that isn't really appealing. Nuzlockes seem more suitable for creating Youtube/Twitch content than offline play.
>>56220122Back in the days I remember seeing Nuzlocke being popular among webcomic artists, it sounds appealing if you want to craft a certain narrative but not so much gameplay-wise since you are mostly praying the RNG doesn't screw you over and generally grinding/cheating in rare candies is involved.Maybe one day, but the play style is a lot less appealing than just removing blatant advantages like shift mode, items, legendaries, or being able to outlevel everything(with or without EXP share, actually what's relevant is the level range not how you get there).
>>56218981Disagree. For a game based on Hawaii, the colors are on the ugly side.
>>56216401Poké rides were cool, minus the uniform
>>56216401SM were pretty solid but the game suffered from needing to have a generic player avatar instead of just having you play as Lily. USUM was a step down thou
>>56220161I wonder if Gen 7 would've worked better as a spinoff like the Gamecube games. A more story-focused unconventional game using the traditional battle mechanics.
>>56220164>I wonder if Gen 7 would've worked better if it was the same thing but with less content and slower animationsno
>>56220164Now I kinda wish they did that on Wii U or something. If it gets to look like PBR I can take the story focus
>>56220183Quit hallucinating, I said none of that, Yawnie
>>56219973Postgame Guzma for me. Pinsir's Guillotine kept hitting.
>>56219551Based and same. Bet everyone in that abandoned mansion had a lot of sex. That's why there were beds everywhere.
Sorry fags but a decade of time has passed and this kusoge is still just a toddler babysitter simulator and a ripoff of yokai watch because shitfreak got scared that one time. Aslowla will never be good and Lillie will forever be a shit.
>>56220618Ok
>>56216401It did everything right, I'm not a fucking apologist. Best character roster and story in the series, best region, great pacing, great pokedex, great graphics and UI, and cool features.>cutscenesIt's a video game, stop being an ADHD-tard.>railroadPokemon was not an open world game until they decided to ruin the series with a Pokemon coat of paint on a generic genre.
>>56220629>>cutscenes>It's a video gameYes, a videogame, not a movie.
Not him, but I found the cutscenes to be quite good. Should they be skippable? Yes. Do they ruin the game? No. Having a good story in the vanilla versions helped a lot.
>>56220647Movies don't have cutscenes, video games do.
>>56220707videogames have gameplay
>>56220688Regardless of skippability I do find them very inane and cringe and they make playing the game even in total solitude feel embarrassing. It really didn't hit me until I tried to play Ultra Sun a while ago
>>56218879dumping all my HMs on swampert is not "a challenge" you braindead moronmy other 5 pomemon still have 4 good moves, the HM retardation just makes it so my starter sucks up until the elite 4 where i delete that garbage
>>56220713Because ultra has a worse story than the original. Lillie has all the screentime she had to begin with but without her big defining moment during the trip to ultra space, so it all feels wasted.
>>56220711Pokemon Sun and Moon is a video game.
>>56220735Don't put bad HMs on your starter dummy, you failed the challenge.
>>56220741I am told that's the case but I'm basing my post mainly on the opening hour or so of the game. How different is that?
>>56220713>playing the game even in total solitude feel embarrassingHow do you usually play video games? How can you feel embarrassed even when nobody is around?
>>56220775By thinking in my head "Why am I playing this? Imagine all the other things I could be doing with my life right now, but instead I'm watching Hau and Kukui and Lillie in Ultra Sun™. My older relatives are slowly dying, I still don't have a job, and this is what my attention is on?"None of this concerns me in any other game, so USUM really fucks up
>>56220765I don't think that anon even realized that there are no Ground type HMs so dumping four HMs onto Swampert means you're denying it Ground STAB. He also didn't take into account that you need at least five HMs to progress through the game (Surf, Strength and Dive for the underwater cavern, Waterfall for Victiry Road and Rock Smash for the route north of Mauville) so you can't even fit every required HM on one moveset
>>56218879As time goes on I'm kind of torn on the HMs thingOverall its a good change, but there is a nostalgic part of me that remembers planning my team out as a kid thinking about how I'd need pokemon to help me explore the world; I'd need a water type to cross the waters with, I'd want a flying pokemon to get around quickly, etcI guess I'd say its good quality of life to not need them, but I dont find myself bothered by needing HMs when I go back and play older games either.
>>56216401It had soul unlike gen 4 and 5.
>>56219681I agree, idk if woke is what it is, but it's certainly dogshit.
>>56216401Team skull. That's about it. They didn't break anything, but they didn't fix anything. The characters apart from skull are annoying, the gimmick is lame. Oh, they introduced fucking ultra beasts. Which were one of the stupidest ideas in pokemon. Now every generation can just add something like. Bingle monsters. Behold, tinkled red. and it's just this blob thing on the pokedex.
>>562164011. It actually tried to add challenge back into the series despite all of the casualization going on at the same time.2. Moving away from gym leaders was a good idea in theory even if they just added in gym leaders by another name. 3. Team Skull is the best evil team of the past 11 years. It's better than Flare, Yell, and Star combined. 4. It had the most fappable Pokegirls in the series. If I didn't have thousands of other doujins, animations, and VNs to jack off to, I might actually be invested in the girls. 5. It's a solid 4.5/10 in terms of quality, making it far better than everything that came out after it. That said, I think Gen 7 introduced the most revolting set of new Pokemon ever. Only one of the Pokemon managed to make it into my top 100, and that's Lurantis.
>>56218879I've always thought about meeting in the middle by having HMs still be an item you need a pokemon to use, but you don't have to waste a moveslot on them. So if a pokemon can naturally learn Cut, Strength, Surf, etc, the trainer has the HM and the badge requires to use it outside of battle, then they could be used out of battle without affecting movesets. I think this is a good compromise as it takes out the inconvenience of juggling 4 moveslots, but still keeps the player mindful of what pokemon to add to the party as you'd still want a water-adjacent pokemon to traverse water with and a flying pokemon to fly with, as well as a strong pokemon to move or crush rocks and a pokemon with cutting ability.
>>56216440>gen 7>solid designsHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>56220858Mimikyu is preety cool
>>56220883Anything that requires keeping specific Pokemon in my party is automatically shit.
>>56220858>1. It actually tried to add challenge back into the series despite all of the casualization going on at the same time.do alolasomes really
>>56216401It uh...Some of the ultra beasts were cool?
>>56220919I'm a Gen 4/5 fan actually. Don't like any Pokemon after B2/W2.
>>56220908I'm viscerally disgusted by Fairy types. To this day I've never put a Fairy type on my team, nor have I ever used a Fairy type attack. Willingly, anyways. I get them sometimes when I play random battles.
>>56220809>I don't think that anon even realized that there are no Ground type HMs so dumping four HMs onto Swampert means you're denying it Ground STABwrong and retardedhave you ever played any of the hoenn games? no you haven't, otherwise you wouldn't be posting something so fucking stupidNEWSFLASH, YOU DON'T NEED CUT IN HOENN TO FINISH THE GAME! you don't need it in r/s/e and you also don't need it for or/asi literally just finished a run of alpha sapphire and i kept ground/water stab throughout the whole game, you just need to delete rock smash for waterfall because at that point you don't need it anymore, and strength is a good move to give to swampert because since gen 4 you go physical with him
>>56216401I liked how easy berry farming was.
>>56220976 (me)one more time for the retards who insist on discussing games they have never playedHMs needed to beat the hoenn games:>strengthmarshtomp>rock smashmarshtompby this point you have 2 HMs on swampert, this leaves you with 2 slots for ground AND water stab>flythis goes on your pokemon that can fly, swampert obviously can't>surfthis replaces your water move so you still keep ground AND water stab despite having 3 HMs>waterfallif you're playing or/as delete rock smash for this since you don't need it anymoreif you're playing r/s/e keep rock smash since you don't need waterfallthen after you're at the elite four pokemon center you can go back to the move deleter and delete all the trash HM moves since you can just fly everywhere at that pointand it's done, you've beaten the hoenn games, it's overdipshit
>>56221000>diveforgot about this one since it's so inconsequentialjust delete rock smash for it while you're doing the single event that requires it
>>56220629Cutscenes are fine, how they are handled in gen 7 is not. Very key distinction
>>56220629>great pacingplease kill yourself retard
>>56221018Nothing wrong with the cutscenes in SM, they do a good job introducing the great setting and characters, the best things about the game and done better than any other game in the series.
>>56221051Overused, you can introduce shit and be quick, about it.
>>56221051alola is a boring faggy region and not a single one of those characters are interesting.
>>56220759a bad one
>>56216401Chicken's design, though I much prefer USUM's version of FeMC. Chicken is iconic, but the longer hair swayed me.
>>56220855holding out for a Seviper Bingle form in gen 10
>>56216401usum photo feature was good
>>56220914>retard who's brain hasn't grown since childhood
>>56221051There certainly isThe story itself is okay. It's basic, but nothing inherently wrong with that. You can have some very good basic stories with the right execution.Gen 7 doesn't do that. It basically harasses you with cutscenes, the dialog is repetitive and meandering, the visuals consist of characters standing around and sometimes doing an overly long stock animation, and important story locations are just empty hallwaysI play JRPGs and read manga and VNs, so naturally I'm no stranger to any of these things, but when you put them all together like this, it only serves to give me an aneurysm
>>56221000>it's easy you just have to use meta knowledge of when every hm is needed to plan out your moveset!The absolute state of hmkeks.
