>"I'll use the red chain created from the lake guardians to bind Dialga/Palkia to control them"
>"What's that? You're here to free the lake guardians who I know have the power to stop me? Go right ahead"
Why was he so retarded in Diamond and Pearl?

Story was clearly written for Platinum where he gets stuck in the Distortion World. Neither Gen 3 or Gen 4 make any sense in the first versions, they clearly had the third in mind from the beginning

>>56220178
>Go right ahead
He lost the fight and there's only one room left in the HQ, it wasn't exactly consensual.
Besides in DP he had no idea Arceus made a fail-safe where the lake guardians are able to neutralize one of the box legendaries.

>>56220125
Imean, Cyrus has no Pokemon left and he figured he didn't need the master ball since he had the red chain. What do you expect him to do, attempt to strangle you while you still have a pokemon of your own?

>>56220196
>>56220198
He opens the door for you, and one presumes the teleporter can be turned off. It's his base, he can do whatever with it.
>in DP he had no idea Arceus made a fail-safe where the lake guardians are able to neutralize one of the box legendaries
But that's literally already his plan. He's using the Red Chain, which is UMA's power, to neutralize the box legendary. Of course UMA themselves can do it too.

Why does the red chain fail in PLA against one legend, but work fine against two in Platinum?

>>56220209
It's two separate red chains in Platinum, one directly "harvested"(?) from UMA and one replica. No idea though

>>56220196
>" If you wish to save the Pokémon from the lakes, take the warp panel ahead. I am off to Mt. Coronet. That's correct. Mt. Coronet. Where you and I first met. I will ascend the mountain to its peak and put an end to everything... No. I will bring about a new beginning for everything..."
He not only tells you where the guardians are but also tells you where to go to stop him. And like the other anon said, he made the red chain because he knew the lake guardians can suppress one of the creation trio. You can even read about it on his computer.

>>56220178
He's an Antichrist type. Of course he thinks he can win without and relinquishes his tools without a second thought.

He would've beaten Dialga and Palkia with his bare hands to prove a point.

>>56220220
The massive copium explanation for this is to say that deep down he doubts his ideology and wants to fail, and therefore gives his enemies the opportunity to stop him if they really want to. I'm iffy about this and Platinum clearly handles it a lot better, but it's notable that he does doubt himself in USUM.

>>56220212
That still doesn't explain why it failed in the first place.

>>56220226
That sounds very emotion-driven and Cyrus isn't supposed to be a retarded narcissist. He's reasonably nice and respectful to the player(and to his Pokémon, judging by Crobat) but he shouldn't be actively trying to do a challenge run.

>>56220227
>but it's notable that he does doubt himself in USUM.
Isn't USUM Cyrus from DP and not Platinum?

>>56220238
Yes.
>"Is that a Pokédex...? May I have a look?"
>"Interesting... In this world, even the Pokédex is..."
>"... ... ... ... ... ... ...I see.
>" ...You need not worry, Rotom. I will not do anything to this world.
>[referring to the player] "Had I met you sooner...would things have been different for me...?"

>>56220236
The Antichrist type has two faces, and its after a life-changing calamity that they lose their facade and turn into a megalomaniac. The anime makes it especially clear. Surprising, knowing the Japanese.

>>56220243
He is just frustrated and has a nervous breakdown after having his plan decisively ruined, I wouldn't describe him as "megalomaniacal" at any point. I really don't think he would try to lord over people or anything like that.

>>56220200
>>56220220
But then wouldn't the most reasonable assumption be that the Red Chain and UMA are equal in power and they'd have to have another fight for the legendaries? UMA straight up overpowered the Red Chain despite it being born from them and having a lot of the same functions.

>>56220253
It's reasonable to figure that UMA is stronger than the object made from only parts of them. You do still fight the legendary, idk the whole script for DP. I'd assume if it was entirely free it would just return back to its dimension but I don't know enough about DP on this point.

>>56220227
I think the actual explanation is that he didn't think the lake guardians would help because he doesn't understand emotions like gratitude. He's genuinely confused when Mesprit shows up next to you at Spear Pillar.
>>56220233
My theory is that the red chain in PLA wasn't as strong as the one Team Galactic used because it was made only from the Lake Guardians without any of the modern science that Cyrus had available.

>>56220263
I don't really think UMA intervenes for that reason though. They're gods, I'm pretty sure this is just their job. It would be absurd if they would just let Cyrus destroy and recreate reality if he had released them himself.

>>56220263
Also, Cyrus "not understanding gratitude" is a reading I really don't want to accept, it's so dumb. Every game he's in portrays him as clearly having emotions, he just intellectually disapproves of them, to put it mildly. There's no way he would get anywhere in life if he was legitimately incapable of comprehending human behaviour.

>>56220271
>>56220290
They probably would have stopped Dialga or Palkia if they were just released by TG, however I really do think in DP they did help because the player went out of their way to save them. Cyrus makes a speech when you meet him at Veilstone HQ that the emotions you felt for wanting to rescue them were illogical and a product of the lacking human heart, but in the end those emotions helped save the day. So he may understand what gratitude and pity is but because he disregarded them as useless feelings he couldn't comprehend why Mesprit would take your side at Spear Pillar.

>>56220238
He’s from Platinum. He mentions Giratina overtaking him.

>>56220364
>he couldn't comprehend why Mesprit would take your side at Spear Pillar
This is just too dumb, even if it might be what they intended in DP. Gratitude isn't even the only reason, besides the "as gods they logically have a duty to protect the world" thing, it is even just self-defense. They are the embodiments of spirit, Cyrus's goal is basically explicitly to destroy them. I can't conceive of any scenario where they don't try to stop him.

>>56220182
Not really. Platinum’s writing and especially Giratina’s motivations feel like a complete afterthought.

>>56220382
Hard disagree. Everything being discussed in this thread only makes sense in Platinum, holes can be poked into DP all day long in comparison.
>Giratina’s motivations
It is a god loyal to/part of Arceus for one, Cyrus also explains that the Distortion World and main world are counterparts that require each other to exist, so Giratina is also acting in self-defense. It's very intuitive.

>>56220375
>"The Red Chain! It crumbled away to nothing?! But why? Why would Mesprit, the Pokémon of Lake Verity, appear by your side? But never mind that! It's all destroyed! My galaxy is gone! I won't allow this... I will capture those three again and craft another Red Chain! But before I even think about that, I'm going to completely crush you!"
It makes even less sense that Cyrus would let them go and didn't even understand that logically the lake guardians would do everything in their power to stop him because it's their "job".

>>56220419
I also think it's absurd that, given they are the embodiments and progenitors of spirit as a concept, he apparently didn't even try to kill them or anything. Maybe that would have already accomplished what he was trying to do without the box legendary
>It's about Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf, correct? You want to save them... I no longer have any need for them. I am finished with them. If your heart aches to save them, go right ahead, I could care less. It will save me the trouble of disposing of them.
Really nigga?

>>56220426
This retardation is why both the anime and adventures manga made him a almost completely different character.

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307 KB GIF

this only works for the best Gym Leader which is Giovanni you would know this if you watched television

How long until Volo is inevitably retconned into the present time as someone who fed Cyrus all the information he needed to craft the red chain? If anyone is capable of finding a way to cheat his way into the present using distortion world fuckery, it's him.

>>56220561
Given the Distortion World's absence of linear time, it would make perfect sense for Cyrus to encounter anyone else who ever entered it as he journeys through there, but probably not before

>>56220419
Cyrus didn't just let them go though, the player interrupts him, Cyrus claims he was about dispose of them, likely meaning they were going to die.

>>56220569
The player just shows up and he's willing to let them go without the player saying anything. He wasn't planning to dispose of them because they would interfere with his plans, he was just done with them and so his first thought was to get rid of them instead of letting them go.

>>56220125
I find hilarious how your average pokemon fan gets filtered by children's writing

Cyrus was looking for a world with no will so he wanted to destroy the current one, after he goes to the distortion world he founds what was he looking for

>>56220623
Post a screenshot of Cyrus in the Distortion World in DP
And you are describing the Generations episode, not Platinum, where he is pissed off at Giratina and has a breakdown

>>56220623
>after he goes to the distortion world he founds what was he looking for
Then why was he trying to destroy it in Platinum?
>"What matters is defeating that Pokémon and making this world disappear. I won't allow it to interfere with me again. With it gone, neither world will be able to revert to its original state..."
You're like the average Pokemon fan that mixes ashnime canon with game canon

>>56220623
>I find hilarious how your average pokemon fan gets filtered by children's writing
Time travelfags when SV

>>56220628
>playing DP
shiggy

>>56220731
Most popular Pokemon games in Japan.

>>56220623
>after he goes to the distortion world he founds what was he looking for
This is actually false. That one animated series changed it to this for some reason. In Platinum Cyrus is madder and more determined than ever, he swears he will find a way to achieve his dream.

it's actually astounding how many people here will confidently act like they're authorities on Pokemon's plot, say it's all baby shit, and then proceed to reveal they basically mashed A through all of it and paid no attention whatsoever

>>56220364
>>56220375
They aren’t gods fucking retards

>>56220382
Giratina's motivations are that your expectations that it was a wicked and evil Pokemon based on its sinister design, and for those who played DP and know Giratina is the "Renegade Pokemon", were dead wrong, and it's just as dutiful and true to its purpose as an overseer of the world's fundamentals as its kin.

>>56220993
Where did I claim they were? I just agreed that they probably would have stopped Cyrus because that's one of the roles they fill.
>>56221013
I mean, it would have destroyed both worlds in its rage by allowing the distortions to keep spreading had the protagonist not intervened and captured/defeated/refused to battle it.

>>56220993
They are gods.

>>56221057
>it would have destroyed both worlds in its rage
It wouldn't, that was just what Cynthia feared might happen based on initial signs. It was angry at Cyrus but that wouldn't make it destroy reality, though it can present the suggestion of it for the purpose of its test and such.

>>56220993
If the creators and mantainers of spacetime aren't gods then nothing is or can be a god
Also they're referred to as gods in the Japanese movies

>>56221080
Even Celebi is referred to as a god(kami-sama) in the Japanese games themselves, so UMA and the Creators are not up for debate.

>>56221075
>It wouldn't
I don't think the lake guardians would have gone into the distortion world had the worlds not been in danger. Also the fact it was banished because of it's violent behavior already explains why it went into fit and kept going despite Cyrus having already been taken care of and left to chill.

>>56221125
>I don't think the lake guardians would have gone into the distortion world
Why not?
>the fact it was banished because of it's violent behavior
Extremely vague and unclarified. Up to interpretation at best.
>went into fit and kept going despite Cyrus having already been taken care of
It literally doesn't do anything

>>56221128
Better question. Why would they go in there for no reason? They clearly went in to help guide the player through the distortion world, but if there was never any real danger then they would've not gone or commune to Cynthia and the player that it's nothing to worry about.
>Extremely vague and unclarified. Up to interpretation at best
PLA literally confirms it with Giratina wanting to destroy the world because of its rage at Arceus. You're the one who disregarded literally everything the game tells you for a headcanon.
>It literally doesn't do anything
That's the point. It tore open a huge hole between the worlds and then left it like that without closing it until you tard wrangle it. For something that's "dutiful and true to its purpose as an overseer of the world's fundamentals" it's a pretty shit thing to do.

>>56221166
>Why would they go in there for no reason?
To help you pass Giratina's test out of gratitude
>PLA literally confirms it
Spinoff written over a decade later that I do not care for, irrelevant for the internal story of Platinum
>It tore open a huge hole between the worlds and then left it like that without closing it until you tard wrangle it
Assuming it would've kept the hole open if only the 11 year old didn't take care of it is absurd. It is bait and it is fairly mean-spirited, but Giratina destroying reality and killing itself makes 0 sense when preventing that is the entire reason it intervened against Cyrus to begin with. Think, anon, think. Giratina is not going to kill itself in any scenario.

the hole is kept open so you have an excuse to do protagonist shit instead of giratina solving the main plot of platinum by itself, which realistically it would have

Giratina, and the other two for that matter, don't have "jobs". They just exist and their existence creates the balance of the world's fundamentals. It's in their nature to deal with disturbances or threats to the balance, they probably do "think" or make decisions, but their rationality would be quite different from a human, more similar to other pokemon but on a higher level.
Let me put it this way: in our world a lot of the gods are perceived as basically supremely omniscient powerful humans "man made in his image" as an example. So it's easy for us to think of "gods" with this similar to human rationality but these are gods that are more like animals. They just do what they do. It isn't a hawks "job" to kill rabbits. It isn't the "overseer" of the ecosystem, even if it does keep it in check by killing rabbits.
OKAY, finally, Also, Giratina can have this role in reality while still being violent and unpredictable. That's why it was banished to the Distortion World. If Giratina didn't still have an important role to fill, and or also if it's rage was a true threat, it's reasonable to assume Arceus would have just killed it than banished. So we can conclude that while Giratina may start destroying shit, it won't destroy everything beyond reversal or repair because frankly Arceus wouldn't have kept it around then.

Oh yeah, Cyrus. I don't really get him, I think his character is just badly written. Actually all of Galactic. At least Gen 4 has the luxury of you can just mash A through this slop pretty quickly.