>fanfic garbage
why should I care

>nugen plagiarism mon
don't care

Another Omgon masterclass, please keep forbidding me to use stuff from the games

Gouging Fire must be really broken, it's not often that they decide to ban offense-oriented Pokemon.

>>56416813
It's broken with tera but they are too scared to ban another gimmick after the dynamax backlash

>>56416820
>It's broken with tera
What isn't? Literally every single OU ban so far has been a tera abuser

>>56416822
>pokemon abuse mechanics in the game
holy shit.....

>>56416822
Good question. Maybe the gimmick is as broken as dmax but that's just a guess

>>56416835
it's literally impossible for a mechanic both players can use on any of their pokemon to be broken.

No one cares about Smogon. Use whatever the games let you use in competitive. The world won't end with Double Team.

>>56416756
there are still people playing smogon in the year of our lord 2011+13?? why?

>>56416870
The only people who play SV in 2024

>>56416756
>2035
>Mons with more than one move have been banned to AG due to being too unpredictable
>OU is now just Dittos using Transform against each other

>OU now only consists of

>>56416841
If you don't ban anything, every game is just Calyrex vs Yveltal. That's what ubers boils down to

>>56416946
Are you even playing the current regulation? All legendaries are banned.

>>56417111
no one is talking about vgc here
I hadn't kept in touch with current ubers meta though. Calyrex got banned to AG since due to tera nothing can check it anymore, so there you go

I haven’t played OU since before Volc was banned, I’ve watched a few matches, and I just don’t like how the teams look nowadays.

>>56416756
Where was ctc when we needed him the most

>>56417111
>Kyurem
>Zamazenta

>>56417629
Still banned, as far as I heard

>>56416756
President Valentine delivers the funny!

>>56416878
>2045
>Unown has been banned to AG for its Hidden Power type being too unpredictable

>>56416820
Tera doesn't do that much for it. Fire/Dragon is an incredible type.

Imagine letting a retard from New Jersey tell you what Pokemon you're allowed to use.

>>56416946
> every game is just Calyrex vs Yveltal
Many people just want to use their fav mons, metatroons are the minority

>>56418642
>Many people just want to use their fav mons
Then they play tiers where those mons can actually do something without getting obliterated instantly. This requires bans.

>>56416759
Hey Verlisify

Wasn't gouging fire not even top 10 in usage? Why?

>>56416759
>normal people
Wow, pokemon was fun! I wonder what the best team of 6 would look like? Let me check out competitive pokemon!
>mental illness
dude doubles is the ultimate skill test even though nobody likes to play it in the games you gotta use friend guard clefairy to set up trick room also your pokemon only get 3 moves because protect is mandatory

>>56418743
My best guess is that it's SUPER offense consider it's a past paradox Pokémon. It's both a fire type and it's ability that allow it to get stronger in the sun. Basically, it get STAB boost, Weather boost, and ability boost. A flare blitz from this thing along with it's 115 attack must do insane numbers.

>>56418769
It also has Morning Sun to get back 3/4 of its HP in the sun.

>>56418769
>>56418803
It's also slow, weak to stealth rock, and not all that hard to one shot.

Basically easily countered by offense, balance, and mixed teams but shits on pure stall so it has to be banned.

>>56417540
the teams have been hella ugly and unaesthetic since sometime after or end of summer 2023

>>56418745
>I wonder what the best team of 6 would look like?
You can’t go to smogshit for this because smogshit fanfic doesn’t remotely resemble the actual game anymore.
>dude doubles is the ultimate skill test
No one said anything about doubles. Seek help.

>>56418745
honestly I don't understand why VGC is the officially sponsored meta. It doesn't make since both on account of the actual games being mostly single battles and singles just being more interesting in general since there's much more switching involved and and running defensive mons is actually viable. Doubles is overly centralized around the same handful of abilities and moves so it just seems boring to me

>>56418894
Stall isn't viable in doubles, they want games to end faster and not draw out official events.

>>56418905
Stall isn't really viable in singles either at this point ever since gen 9 handed out a huge number of direct and indirect nerfs to the concept (heal move PP cut in half, Psychic Noise outright blocking healing anyway, move distribution of Knock Off going way up, distribution of Substitute, Defog and Scald going way down, etc). Defensive mons are still important but battles that last over 30 turns seem rare these days
Of course this begs the question as to why GF handed out these stall nerfs in the first place since stall is completely irrelevant in VGC

>>56418932
Stall nerfs were a mercy to single players.

They know people like singles, and they leave showdown alone also as a mercy.

>>56418894
>honestly I don't understand why VGC is the officially sponsored meta
Because it has the highest skill ceiling.

>b-but muh toddler campaign
How is this relevant to PvP in the slightest?

>and running defensive mons is actually viable
It's viable in doubles too, you just have to not be a fucking retard and mindlessly switch for free like in 6v6 fanfic garbage.

>>56418945
Seems like they could have just handed out those nerfs long ago and established singles as the official meta. They'd already been nerfing stall in gen 4 when VGC was established, by then resttalk didn't have near the presence it did in gen 2, they were finally introducing offensive items that people would rather run instead of just spamming leftovers and of course all the new hazards made it easier to get bulky mons in knockout range. Amazing that it took this long to cut down on recovery move PP

>>56418957
>skill
there's no skill involved in any format of competitive Pokemon, only knowledge and predictions. Latest VGC champ knew everyone was overpreparing for Calyrex and instead used Miraidon as his legendary. Beating people with anti-meta picks they didn't consider how to handle doesn't take a lot of thought

>How is this relevant to PvP in the slightest?
look if you're gonna call singles fanfic garbage, then VGC is literally Sonic recolor tier bullshit. Doubles wasn't even around until gen 3 and no one uses teams of four in the game itself or any other format. It is a completely made up, artificial ruleset that probably only exists because of >>56418905

>>56418992
>there's no skill involved in any format of competitive Pokemon
What do you think "skill" means?

>Doubles wasn't even around until gen 3
Good thing we're playing past gen 3 then.

>and no one uses teams of four in the game itself
Thanks for admitting you've never played battle facilities, campaignshitter.

Scarlet and Violet OU has too many coinflips to be enjoyable

>>56419002
>What do you think "skill" means?
The ability to consistently perform a specialized task. There's far too much luck involved in Pokemon for any kind of consistency. Not only when it comes to the actual mechanics but the matchups you run into and your predictions of what your opponents do.

>Good thing we're playing past gen 3 then.
And yet still the official games are played mostly in singles. Not that I even care about the official games, I never played any that came out after gen 4. I just think the inconsistency between what the official games are focused on and what the official tournaments are focused on is weird

>talk bullshit you have no idea about
>"teehee i never played anything past first 1-4 gens teehee"
lol

>>56419411
Honestly can you blame anyone for doing that

>>56419416
Yes i can blame people who think they can have opinions on things they have no idea about.

>>56419437
I somehow don't think you need to play Pokemon at all to know what "skill" means, and he's right about singles being what you play in-game still.

>>56419441
You dont need to talk about yourself in third person Pablo.

>>56419448
>only one person can ever disagree with me
Every single time.

>>56418722
Hey (((Finchinator)))

>>56418633
As opposed to letting daddy GameFreak tell you what to use?

>>56418826
>not all that hard to one shot.
>105/121/93 bulk
>that can afford to run a defensive set
252 attack Great Tusk only kills sometimes with Headlong Rush.

>>56418769
>>56418826
The typing is what makes it so good
Fire/dragon is really good offensively since you just hit everything neutrally and the only type combos you can't hit are primarina and diancie so you can't just force it out by sending a hard counter most of the time so rocks are a non issue here

>>56416820
>It's broken with tera
It’s not. It’s a past paradox Pokemon with Fire STAB, Dragon Dance, good bulk, and can do 6 different things.

+1 252+ Atk Protosynthesis Gouging Fire Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola in Sun: 239-282 (44.7 - 52.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
It fucking 2HKOs one of the bulkiest Water types in the game in Sun and after a Dragon Dance. With a resisted attack no less. ‘Member Chi-Yu 2HKOing Blissey? Yeah Gouging Fire is like physical Chi-Yu with less firepower but more in everything else.
>>56416822
Most things aren’t broken with Tera. They likely would be banned anyways besides maybe Ogerpon-H and Terapagos, which are special snowflake teraforms. And Volcarona.

>after the dynamax backlash
There is no Dynamax backlash. Dynamax was universally agreed apon to be broken as hell and is far and away more broken than Tera could ever be.

>>56419946
> Dynamax was universally agreed apon to be broken as hell
literally not possible
“broken” doesn’t mean “I don’t like the mechanic”

Can someone explain why Wellspring was tested in NatDex but not in OU (to my recollection)?

>>56419972
have you talked to compfags? Anything they don't like and shakes up the meta is broken, and anything they don't like but don't have to change anything to counter is just shit.

>>56416839
That is not true.

>>56420069
Yes it is.

>>56418632
>Tera doesn't do that much for it. Fire/Dragon is an incredible type.
It was banned primarily because Fairy-tera made it incredibly hard to check.

File: 1533740325739.jpg (39 KB, 881x495)

39 KB JPG

>game freak adds mechanic that makes the game more complex than rock paper scissors
>smogshit: BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT

>>56420071
Dynamax and Tera prove otherwise

>>56420090
>[things that can't be broken by definition] prove otherwise
huh?

>>56420096
>By definition
In practice they were/are broken. Play the game.

>>56420096
Can't be broken? Why not?

File: KeyrD[1].png (22 KB, 213x899)

22 KB PNG

>>56419983
1. Rain is one of the best archetypes in NatDex OU
2. There are a lot more Water type threats in the tier (like Mega-pert or Urshifu-R)
3. NatDex OU has banned the thing that keep her in check in regular OU like Kingambit, Dragapult, and Darkrai
4. Dondozo is a lot less effective in NatDex so it's seen far less often. This means that the set-up Ogerpon is really hard to check
5. Movepools are unnerfed in NatDex meaning Landorus-T remains the best Pokemon in the tier. She has a really good match up into him.

>>56420109
"broken" doesn't mean "mechanic I don't like"
"broken" doesn't mean "the opponent used the game mechanics better than me who has access to those exact same mechanics"

>>56420129
Mewtwo is fine because everyone can catch one.

>>56420126
qrd on Mega Medi, wasn't it mid as far as Megas go?

>>56420111
"Broken" has to be relative to something.
When someone says "Miraidon is broken" it means "it's far more powerful relative to other Pokemon in the game". A mechanic can't be broken relative to itself.

>>56420132
>Mewtwo is fine
Correct, which is why it's usable in formats that allow Restricted Pokemon.

>>56420139
Why would it be restricted?

File: Sun Rider.jpg (594 KB, 900x900)

594 KB JPG

>>56418743
The better you got at the game the more you realized how busted Gouging Fire was. It had a load of set variety. Booster Energy sweeper, DDance sweeper, CB Sun insta-killer (that shit dealt 75% to DONDOZO), Breaking Swipes/Roar anti-set-up sweeper, etc.

The little nuances of its move pool let it choose its checks. It could run away with games if you guessed it was a CB/Breaking Swipes set and you let it get a DDance up. Meanwhile, if you switched in one of the counters to DDance it could make the game 6v5 by deleting a Pokemon with Band or Booster Energy sets.

Iron Valiant next please. That thing is just as bad as Gouging Fire

>>56420140
Because it has higher stats than non-restricted Pokemon.

>>56420136
The mechanic can product situations where certain Pokemon disproportionately benefit from it. And it's not feasible to ban every single flying move because Max Airstream was busted.

>>56420143
So? Incineroar has higher stats than Hoppip.

>>56420133
Best stall-breaker around. If you outspeed it, you're fine. If you have less than 100 speed you're getting buckbroken. Mega-Medi is capable of breaking Alomomola, Toxapex, Ferrothorn, Garganacl, Dondozo, Amoonguss, Corviknight, and Gliscor. If you have Lele/Psychic Terrain support you can even break Clefable with Zen Headbutt without risking getting crippled by Twave.

>>56420141
>spoiler
Honestly, Booster should just be removed because that is what pushes so many of the paradoxes over the edge. Valiant would be way more manageable if it needed to run a choice item or Pincurchin.

>>56420148
>So?
So its stats are high enough to count as a restricted Pokemon.

>>56420146
>The mechanic can product situations where certain Pokemon disproportionately benefit from it
Items produce situations where certain Pokemon disproportionately benefit from it
Moves produce situations where certain Pokemon disproportionately benefit from it
Switching produces situations where certain Pokemon disproportionately benefit from it

Smogshit better ban those things quick!!

>>56420129
If everyone were running the same Pokemon or every Pokemon had the same benefit from using the mechanic, sure. Dragonite is going to get a lot more mileage out of Terastallization than Amoonguss. Gyarados is going to get a lot more out of Dynamax than just about everything else.

Megas were more fair and balanced (even if they were neither of those things) because they were limited

>>56420163
>If everyone were running the same Pokemon or every Pokemon had the same benefit from using the mechanic, sure
This. We better ban switching because not every Pokemon has the same benefit from the mechanic.

File: Keyv4[1].png (32 KB, 171x245)

32 KB PNG

>>56420162
>So its stats are high enough to count as a restricted Pokemon.
That's an arbitrary distinction. Regigigas and Slaking have similar stats. They're not restricted though.

>>56420165
Toxapex switching isn't going to cause you to lose a game like Dragonite OHKO'ing your entire team with Tera Normal Extreme Speed.

>>56420168
>That's an arbitrary distinction.
Nope.

>Regigigas and Slaking have similar stats
While having purposefully crippling abilities, yes.

>>56420162
Anon, some moves and items are banned.

File: Weezing.png (480 KB, 937x937)

480 KB PNG

>>56420173
>While having purposefully crippling abilities
?

>>56420171
>Toxapex switching isn't going to cause you to lose a game
Yes it is.

>>56420175
>some
So not the entire mechanic?

>>56420173
>Nope.
Obviously it is. Some restricted Pokemon are so bad that they're fine in standard play. See: the long history of Smogon allowing restricted Pokemon like Darkrai, Zamazenta, Kyurem, and Celebi.

>While having purposefully crippling abilities, yes.
So the stats aren't what make a restricted Pokemon then?

>>56420187
>Obviously it is
Obviously it isn't. Every single Pokemon with > 600 BST with a non-hindering ability is restricted.

>b-buh fanfic
Not what I'm talking about.

>So the stats aren't what make a restricted Pokemon then?
They are.

>>56420186
Items can be reasonably removed. It becomes more complicated when you make a list of Pokemon that are and are not allowed to dynamax.

>>56420193
>Items can be reasonably removed
The items that are there still produce situations where certain Pokemon disproportionately benefit from it. Why haven't they banned the entire mechanic yet?

>>56420194
The benefits gained are not as much as Dynamax's.

>>56420202
Yes they are.

>>56420186
Smogon doesn't do complex bans so they can't just ban Dynamax for Gyarados or Terastallization for Gouging Fire.

>>56420212
>Smogon doesn't do complex bans
So why haven't they banned items yet?

>>56420206
Explain your reasoning.

>>56420216
You first.

File: 1703232598075430.png (1.18 MB, 1023x913)

1.18 MB PNG

>>56420215
They have banned items. Bright Powder, Light Clay (in lower tiers), weather rocks (in lower tiers), Soul Dew (on Lati@s), Kangaskhanite, Lucarioite, Salamencite, etc.

>>56420221
I already did.

>tera is still legal
>boots are still legal
>booster energy is still legal
>Zamazenta is still legal
>Kyurem is still legal
>Darkrai is still legal
>Gholdengo is still legal
>switch moves are still legal
So instead they ban the mon that's only a problem because of multiple things that should have been on the banlist at the start of the generation.

And they wonder why everyone shits on gen 9 singles. Just accept the fact that unplayers will bitch anyway and go full scorched-earth on the format. We need more bans, not less.

File: KeyxT[1].png (16 KB, 735x255)

16 KB PNG

>>56420190
>Obviously it isn't. Every single Pokemon with > 600 BST with a non-hindering ability is restricted.
That second part of the sentence disproves the rule. It's not the BST that matters since there are superlatives that don't fall in the data set. There are also restricted Pokemon like Calyrex or Cosmoem with unusably bad stats.

Thus it's not the BST that matters, so it is an arbitrary decision.

Haha
Let's laugh at the competitive fags who don't know the type chart

>>56420223
Why haven't they banned the whole mechanic?

>>56420238
Because there aren't enough instances of broken items to warrant removing the entire mechanic.

>>56420234
>That second part of the sentence disproves the rule
No it doesn't.

>It's not the BST that matters since there are superlatives that don't fall in the data set
Please give me a single example of a Pokemon with > 600 BST and a non-hindering ability isn't restricted.

>There are also restricted Pokemon like Calyrex or Cosmoem with unusably bad stats
Calyrex has forms with BST over 600 and Cosmoem is a NFE with evolutions that have BST over 600. These also don't disprove the statement "Every single Pokemon with > 600 BST with a non-hindering ability is restricted". Try again.

>>56420238
Why would they? Held items are just part of Pokemon customization like choosing your abilities or your EVs. Items have been in the game since Gen 2 and are obviously not broken. Thus they ban individual items that are broken.

>>56420242
You mean like how there aren't enough broken instances of Dynamax to warrant removing the entire mechanic?

>>56420248
Why would they ban Dynamax? Dynamax is just part of Pokemon strategization like choosing your moves or deciding to switch.

>>56420179
That's not even a counterpoint that matters
The paradox mons have absurdly overtuned stats with no crippling ability and they've been legal in most VGC formats since they were introduced
Allowing Flutter Mane while not allowing Mewtwo or Shaymin or whatever is arbitrary bullshit

>>56420252
Flutter Mane has much lower stats than Mewtwo and Shaymin is a Mythical with limited availability. Nothing about it is arbitrary.

>>56420251
>there aren't enough broken instances of Dynamax to warrant removing the entire mechanic?
There were.

>>56420248
Have an item clause like official singles

>>56418632
>>56419946
Tera is broken on Gouging Fire because defensive tera types allow it to choose its answers, not because of some extra coverage move it doesn't need. A defensive tera on the defensive roar set can win the game by itself.

Ban tera, holy shit

>>56420246
>No it doesn't.
Yes it does. If BST is what mattered, Pokemon with >600 BST would be banned, ability or no. So it's obviously a combination of factors rather than 1 measure.
>Please give me a single example of a Pokemon with > 600 BST and a non-hindering ability isn't restricted.
I don't have to. See above.
>Calyrex has forms with BST over 600
Base Calyrex doesn't.
>Cosmoem is a NFE with evolutions that have BST over 600
So? Cosmoem and Cosmog don't have that high BST and they can't evolve mid battle. Sejun Park isn't going to bring Cosmoem and evolve it into Lunala/Solgaleo as the situation demands, it's a Cosmoem for the whole battle.

>These also don't disprove the statement "Every single Pokemon with > 600 BST with a non-hindering ability is restricted". Try again.
What they do prove is that there are Pokemon with >600 BST that aren't banned while also Pokemon with <600 BST are banned too. Stats don't determine why a Pokemon is restricted. It's arbitrary.

>>56420256
>Shaymin is a Mythical with limited availability
You can get one from Legends Arceus.

>>56420260
>If BST is what mattered, Pokemon with >600 BST would be banned, ability or no
According to who?

> So it's obviously a combination of factors rather than 1 measure.
Who said there's only 1 measure? You alright, ESL?

>I don't have to.
Yes you do. See above.

>Base Calyrex doesn't.
Calyrex's forms do.

>So? Cosmoem and Cosmog don't have that high BST and they can't evolve mid battle
So they evolve into Pokemon with high BST, and are therefore restricted.

>What they do prove is that there are Pokemon with >600 BST that aren't banned
There are no Pokemon with > 600 BST and non hindering abilities that aren't banned.

>>56420234
Is this the worst 600 spread you could possibly have

>>56420246
>Please give me a single example of a Pokemon with > 600 BST and a non-hindering ability isn't restricted.
Mega Salamence

>>56420256
>Flutter Mane has much lower stats than Mewtwo
Not in any way that actually matters. BST itself isn't near as relevant as distribution

>Shaymin is a Mythical with limited availability
As if you faggots weren't just hacking in perfect IV spreads before the advent of hyper training in anyway. Get real. If you hate "bans" and "fanfic" so much on principle then you should be against this too.

>>56420258
There's no point. It limits team building and makes it so the lesser users of certain items will never be seen. You can't have 2 scarfers on your team, so if you want to use Scarf Rotom for speed control and as a way to cripple stall, you can't also use Scarf Hydreigon for an offensive pivot.

>>56420251
>Why would they ban Dynamax? Dynamax is just part of Pokemon strategization like choosing your moves or deciding to switch.
Dynamax is a gimmick and not involved with customization at all. Dynamax also makes previously balanced Pokemon, like Gyarados or G-Moltres, into imbalanced monsters. If Smogon kept the mechanic around, Gen 8 Ubers would be 2x the size of Gen 9 Ubers.

>>56420274
Mega Salamence isn't in the game.

File: 05d08ba70d4ce80bf87ad3caa(...).jpg (214 KB, 1230x1686)

214 KB JPG

Gouging Fire gets mogged by Rhyperior kek

>>56420279
It was previously in the games, and legal in VGC.

>>56420275
>Not in any way that actually matters.
One of Flutter Mane's most crippling weaknesses is its garbage physical bulk. Mewtwo's higher stats make it more well rounded and therefore more broken.

>As if you faggots weren't just hacking in perfect IV spreads before the advent of hyper training in anyway
I'm not. It's restricted because it puts legitimate players at a further disadvantage.

File: KeyAy[1].png (18 KB, 826x252)

18 KB PNG

>>56420272
It's a 500 spread. Worst 600 spread is probably pic related

>>56420277
Not having item clause makes it so that you can run a team with full leftovers almost requiring every team have a stall or wall breaker

>>56420287
DOD is bad because it’s HP stat is really low and spike stacking is no longer as valuable with heavy duty boots

>>56420269
>According to who?
According to logic.
>Who said there's only 1 measure? You alright, ESL?
You tried to make a rule that restricted status was based on BST when it's very obviously not.
>Calyrex's forms do.
So? Calyrex isn't going to hop onto Spectrier mid-battle.
>So they evolve into Pokemon with high BST, and are therefore restricted.
That's completely arbitrary. They're shitmons with <600 BST and they also aren't Solgaleo or Lunala.
>There are no Pokemon with > 600 BST and non hindering abilities that aren't banned.
But there are Pokemon with sub-600 BST and non-hindering abilities that are banned.

Not the guy who's bitching about legendary pokemon, but dropping box legends into your flagship standard format makes your community look really unprofessional from the outside. People have been rightfully shitting on Smogon for this ever since the Kyurems were allowed. Haxorus should have never had to compete with Kyurem-B in the first place.

All I'm sayin is that there is no harm in having a 600 BST cap for all base formes without a "bad" ability gimmick like Slaking and Regigigas.

>>56420298
>According to logic.
Who's logic?
>You tried to make a rule that restricted status was based on BST
It is based on BST.
>So? Calyrex isn't going to hop onto Spectrier mid-battle.
So? It still has a form with > 600 BST.
>That's completely arbitrary.
No it isn't.
>But there are Pokemon with sub-600 BST and non-hindering abilities that are banned
Yeah, they're called Mythicals, which aren't allowed for different reasons.

>>56420301
Kyu-B's movepool was so bad that its BST was effectively 530.

File: 1655672207033.jpg (39 KB, 828x515)

39 KB JPG

>>56420301
>but dropping box legends into your flagship standard format makes your community look really unprofessional from the outside.
What? No it doesn't.

>People have been rightfully shitting on Smogon for this ever since the Kyurems were allowed.
>Rightfully
Kyurems aren't broken (in Gens 5 - 7) so they're rightfully unbanned. Smogon doesn't blanket ban box legendaries because that's an incredibly stupid idea. Some are balanced in standard play, some aren't.

>>56420312
>Who's logic?
Logic is logic.
>It is based on BST.
Obviously not since there are several examples to the contrary.
>So? It still has a form with > 600 BST.
The forms being Calyrex-Ice Rider and Calyrex-Shadow Rider. Calyrex doesn't have access to either.
>Yeah, they're called Mythicals, which aren't allowed for different reasons.
Entirely arbitrary reasons.

>>56420301
It's about context. Haxorus has a legitimate advantage over Kyurem due to not being weak to stealth rock (and just not having an ice typing in general). Kyurem is risky to use and easy to counter because of these factors, in spite of how powerful it is.

File: Pokémon_Crystal_box_art[1].png (175 KB, 316x315)

175 KB PNG

>>56420301
>I-It's a box legendary so it must be banned even if it's dogshit!
Damn, you are retarded.

>>56420329
>I-It's a mechanic I don't like so it must be banned even if by definition it isn't broken!
Damn, Smogshit is retarded.

File: 1723925147491532.jpg (437 KB, 1920x1080)

437 KB JPG

Smogon's only issue is that it doesn't ban enough.

>>56420339
Urshifu's slow enough that most teams are gonna have something that outspeeds it and even if it's scarfed, you can still fuck it over with Tera/Rocky helmet/knock off on switch in/webs/etc
It's not like doubles where protect is mandatory and a lot of the counterplay makes much less sense

>>56420339
>Stone mask is above water

File: 1723925426251693.jpg (360 KB, 1920x1080)

360 KB JPG

>>56420366
Sturdy is just that good when you would otherwise get one-shot by the absurdly powerful restricted Pokemon in the format.

File: 1694666168654779.png (267 KB, 783x450)

267 KB PNG

Instead of whining about bans, why not just play the tier they're banned to?
>But I don't play Smogon
We know

>>56420339
>>56420370
What a fucking dumpster of a regulation, glad it's gone

>>56420382
I'm just glad Wolfey didn't make it into the top 8.

>>56420339
>Even if you combined all the Ogerpon forms they still wouldn't have the usage of Urshifu's 2nd form
Fucking lol

>>56420374
I kinda like the idea of how VGC does it where they only permit 1-2 legendaries per team when legendaries are allowed
I wish there was an equivalent in singles. It'd be kinda like having megas again

>>56420384
I'm just glad the horses didn't win.
Still wouldn't object to every single mon in the picture being dexcut though. Except Farigiraf. Farigiraf is based and can stay.

Why are Dynamaxfags some of the most dishonest retards in comp threads? Are they still assblasted that most people didn't like Dynamax? Some of them feel like they are just baiting for (You)s

File: 1551372289132.jpg (180 KB, 2048x934)

180 KB JPG

>>56420401
A draft pick could be a fun alternate mode where every Pokemon gets a score from 1 to 10 based on how strong they are (arbitrarily, of course) and you've got 20 points you can use to create your team.

File: KeyI5[1].png (1.21 MB, 1303x835)

1.21 MB PNG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxGFBZ90IqA

Lord Jimothy Cool has spoken.

>>56419972
The number of people who still think Dynamax was a perfectly fine mechanic is less than Concord’s current players

>>56420339
Remind me, why are they using Whimsicott instead of Tornadus again? Too many electric types running around?

>>56416756
>91% pro ban
sad to see how smogon has become such an echo chamber of stupidity

>>56420287
That spread was ubers almost every generation though.

>>56420500
Only because it was too good at getting hazards up. Hence why it's not banned anymore. Hazards are still good but boots are everywhere and powercreep is such that it can be rekt before it gets a chance to do anything these days. Deoxys wasn't designed with the idea that there would be bullshit like Koraidon running around in the future

>>56420339
>Dexcut Urshifu
>Dexcut the genies
>Dexcut the Treasures of Ruin
>Dexcut the paradox mons
>retcon the Tapus out of existence
>Dexcut prankster
>dexcut expanding force
>Kangaskhan loses fake out
>Dexcut ALL "-ate" abilities
>Mega Gengar now has cursed body
>dexcut drought and drizzle. Groudon and Kyogre now have their primal abilities and they function like pre-nerf drought and drizzle. Primal Groudon is no longer immune to water and just takes half damage before factoring in sun
Total powercreep death

>>56420654
>Dexcut Urshifu
Doublestroon detected

Noooo muh protect, you can't just bypass it aaaaaaAaaaAAAaaaaAAAAA

>>56420654
I see you, Arigatranny

>>56420499
What leads to this level of delusion?

>>56420424
That was already tried once many years ago. It flopped.

>>56420720
>B-But VGC!
Urshifu dark was banned in singles twice you nigger

File: vyMGADV.jpg (346 KB, 1280x956)

346 KB JPG

>when the legendary pokemon that is meant to be stronger than normal pokemon is stronger than normal pokemon

>>56420950
You can't just ban overpowered Pokemon! It hurts my feelings :(

No, I don't play comp, why do you ask?

>>56420489
>Raging Bolt
>Miraidon
That's sufficient.

>>56421094
>You can't just ban overpowered Pokemon!
yes because you can just put weaker pokemon in lower tiers instead

>>56421209
That's why we have Ubers.

>>56421253
No, it’s why we have every tier below OU. There’s no need to ban anything. But fanfic is retarded and arbitrary so they do it anyway.

>>56421510
>There’s no need to ban anything
how do you think tiers form, retard?

>>56421516
From usage. How do you think they form, fanfictard?

>>56421517
without bans there is literally nothing stopping you from using box legendaries in every single tier, which defeats the entire point of tiers

>>56421528
>without bans there is literally nothing stopping you from using box legendaries in every single tier
Nope. Tiers work without bans.

>>56421896
Ah yeah, let me just play NU with Arceus and Necrozma being legal.

>>56421927
No, because you're playing NU.

>>56421896
Not the person you were replying to before, but don't bans mean they move up a tier. For example, if Gouging Fire is banned from OUT, it actually means it moved up a tier, no?

>>56421951
>but don't bans mean they move up a tier
No. It means they banned the Pokemon. Which makes zero fucking sense instead of just moving everything weaker than Gouging Fire down naturally by usage. Which is why fanficshit is a joke.

>>56420720
urshifu is ugly as fuck
I don't mind pokemon being strong if they aren't nightmarish to look at

>>56421932
What? I thought bans were not required for tiers?

>>56422040
They aren't.

>>56422041
Why not?

>>56422001
Everything that gets banned is legal in any tier above the tier it got banned from
The highest tier is Ubers, which IIRC to date has only ever had two bans throughout Pokemon's entire history: Mega Rayquaza and Calyrex Shadow. And you can still use those if you play AG
You probably already knew this and are just trolling this thread I expect. Fuck off

>>56422051
Zacian got banned last gen too, both forms.

>>56416756
>fanfic meta
Only VGC matters.

>>56416756
These people have been banning shit on a monthly basis since the gen started. Completely insane.

>>56420129
Think of Harry Potter and quidditch. The golden snitch is a broken mechanic made by JK Rowling in her stupid game. You catch and earn 150 points, while a normal goal means 10 points. Every team has a catcher for using this sole mechanic, but it is still broken, because it creates an unbalanced thing that makes the rest of the game irrelevant.

>>56420162
>Smogshit better ban those things quick!!

Hate to break to you, but there were and are bans on items and moves, anon.

>>56422044
Because tiers are split by usage, not bans.

>>56422051
>Everything that gets banned is legal in any tier above the tier it got banned from
With tiers you shouldn't need bans to begin with.

>>56422079
>but it is still broken,
No, it's just a mechanic you don't like.

>>56422091
Read the thread before making yourself look like a retard.

>>56422098
Usage defines legality.

>>56422098
Of course you still need bans because once again there's no reason not to use legendaries in every single tier without bans? Why would I not bring Koraidon to the lowest tier if it isn't banned?

>>56422105
Yes, by tiers. Not bans.

>>56422111
And something not being legal in a tier is...

>>56422102
Anon, I am sorry. You are the one who looks retarded here. You are arguing in circles and making yourself look like a joke in front of smogonfags, which is a great feat.

If you can't see why certain game mechanics can, by definition, be broken, you are either a troll or a complete moron. I hope you are a moron, because trolling about such a meaningless thing mean you must be a massive autist.

Enjoy your last (you)

>>56422116
The Pokemon being used enough to be in the tier above it.

>>56422120
>If you can't see why certain game mechanics can, by definition, be broken,
You've failed to give a single example of how a mechanic can be broken. You not liking the game design isn't the same as something being broken. But Smogshit has to pretend Dynamax is "broken" because if they just flat out say "we don't like this mechanic" they'll be outed to campaignshitters as completely illegitimate as a format.

>>56422139
You're not understanding how this works. A mon's usage rate within a tier doesn't determine whether it rises from that tier. It's the mon's usage rate in the tier above that tier
A mon can be a really big problem for one tier but not actually that good in the tier above. This was the case with Gouging Fire, which, while it can work in Ubers, is pretty mediocre compared to shit like Necrozma Dusk, Arceus, Kyogre/Groudon etc.
You can't solve everything with usage rates

>>56422166
>A mon's usage rate within a tier doesn't determine whether it rises from that tier. It's the mon's usage rate in the tier above that tier
Who said it has to work this way?

>>56422139
Which is functionally a ban.

>>56422193
Nope.

>>56422195
Yep. That's why it's not allowed in a lower tier.

>>56422200
Nope. It being in a different tier is why it's not allowed in a lower tier. It's not a consciously decided ban.

>>56422204
Define "ban"

>>56422174
anyone with a sense of nuance
usage rates within a tier aren't reflective of whether something's balanced for the tier
Remember when Lando-T was the most spammed mon in OU and was on like 80% of teams? No one ever wanted it banned because it was still pretty easy to counter, bunch of weaknesses, fast but not that fast, strong but not unwallable, often just used to set rocks and blow up anyway, etc. People used it because there was a lot of utility it could provide, not because it was overpowered
In the same way Ribombee is used a ton in Ubers because it's fast, it has Sticky Webs and it's a fairy type in a tier with a lotta dragons. Do you think it makes sense for Ribombee to be banished to AG because of that?

>>56419490
>As opposed to letting daddy GameFreak
You know what? You're right. I WILL bring Batman and Grasshole to worlds this year and no one can stop me!
>verification not required

>>56422207
>officially exclude (someone) from a place
Tiers aren't officially excluding a Pokemon. They're split by usage. Bans are official because a council sits down and counts votes from other circlejerkers to remove the Pokemon or mechanic.

>>56422208
>anyone with a sense of nuance
What does nuance have to do with it? It only works that way because Smogshit decided it works that way. They could change it to work in any way they wanted. But they won't, because fanficshit is completely arbitrary.

>i-it shouldn't be banned because they don't want it to be banned
See? You're proving my point. Why the fuck should I care about a format that doesn't function by any objective metric and just works based on "I like/don't like this"?

>>56422241
>What does nuance have to do with it?
>a format that doesn't function by any objective metric
I literally just explained that usage rates don't mean shit and are not an objective metric. There is no objective metric you can use other than maybe BST but of course even that doesn't mean shit since you'd have mons like Slaking who'd be shit in higher tiers and mons like Huge Power Azumarill who would be way too strong against anything with similar BST

Your method would also result in an endless cycle of the same shit previously described. Mon gets used a ton in one tier, rises to the next tier, isn't good enough for that tier, falls back to the lower tier where it's overpowered again etc. ad nauseum. It makes no sense whatsoever to do it that way.

>>56422258
>I literally just explained that usage rates don't mean shit
According to who?

>Mon gets used a ton in one tier, rises to the next tier, isn't good enough for that tier, falls back to the lower tier where it's overpowered again
This doesn’t actually happen if they make enough tiers.

File: 1706433641922178.png (41 KB, 2000x2100)

41 KB PNG

>>56416756
It's become impossible for me to even consider playing singles on smogon by this point ,especially gen 9 OU or even UU, there's no thought or testing or care put into these decisions most of the time and often they just take the most kneejerky routes for things, Goldengo is still legal despite being a giant overcentralized piece of shit that makes dealing with hazards impossible and forces you to put HDB on everything, Kingambit was a mistake, Iron Valiant is so incredibly fucking retarded to deal with due to how absurdly unpredictable it is. I'm glad Gouging Fire got banned, it was stupid, but it often feels they only ban outliers instead of general problems that got banked into the very foundation of the generation and are part of the reason things are so shit, but I don't expect things to get better so long as (((Finch))) remains in power, people often complain about too many bans and I don't disagree entirely but I think the problem is that they ban the wrong things, barely anyone wanted sleep banned, Archaludon was strong but far from overwhelming outside of rain, a weather style that has been broken forever and several mons got banned due to a single move like Espathra, Houndstone and Anihilape, bans are handled like shit.

>>56422266
>This doesn’t actually happen if they make enough tiers.
It wouldn't matter even if they did because once again, high usage in a tier =/= too powerful for the tier to handle. It's still a retarded idea.
And even if it somehow was the case, it still wouldn't make any sense because there's more to tiers than just general power levels. Sometimes it works out that certain tiers are dominated by certain play styles due to the specific mons in the tier. Gen 4 UU having Hail all over the place since Abomasnow is the only weather setter in the tier, for example. Maybe there's some mons that are too good for RU by usage but can't deal with Hail so they'd still get stuck in the aforementioned limbo at which point it just makes more sense to do it the way smogon does it

>>56422297
IIRC Houndstone (and Basculegion) are unbanned now, they just banned Last Respects (and why the fuck wouldn't you ban that move?)
If you ban Gholdengo, hazards would be worse meaning you'd probably see more stall. I can't see why anyone would want that

>>56416813
it's physical volcarona, but with a better original typing and better bulk.
i'm surprised it lasted this long.

>>56422332
Better movepool, too. Volcarona wishes it had a ground move.

>>56422313
>and why the fuck wouldn't you ban that move?
2 reasons:
Houndstone was the only thing that could get Last Respects.
Basculegion knowing the move was irrelevant because it was not obtainable at the time and Game Freak had precidence of changing up movepools in patches this gen.

>>56422299
>high usage in a tier =/= too powerful for the tier to handle
Who decides if something is too powerful for a tier to handle?

>It's still a retarded idea
You know what’s a more retarded idea? Banning something because “hurr but I don’t like it”

>>56422343
>Who decides if something is too powerful for a tier to handle?
The playerbase.

>>56422342
You can ban the move without banning the mon
But hey, even if you're a Houndstone fan, I would say it's pretty cool that it got a stint in Ubers just because of Last Respects

>>56422346
You mean fanfic circlejerkers who don’t use objectivity and just arbitrarily ban things based on what they don’t like?

>>56422355
what objective criteria would you use to ban something?

>>56422354
nta but the justification (i still disagree with it) was that the move itself made houndstone broken, and since it was unique to houndstone pre-home, that's why it was banned.
it's a similar justification for cyclizar's initial ban at the start of the generation until they realized shed tail was broken on orthworm too
but then it gets into weird shit-flinging debates. espathra and blaziken were broken solely because of speed boost enabling them, but speed boost isn't inherently broken on its own, so it can't be banned since shit like yanmega or sharpedo work perfectly fine with it. do you ban speed boost only on certain pokemon? it's a complicated discussion.

>>56422354
>You can ban the move without banning the mon
The ruling on that has always been banning a move if it breaks an existing clause or if it is an issue on multiple Pokemon. Nothing else got Last Respects, so Houndstone got the boot.

>>56422370
I mean it seems like an obvious clear cut case just like evasion clause bans any mon from using Double Team/Minimize or whatever
I can understand Showdown as a client not really being able to process a more nuanced thing like Blaze Blaziken being legal in the same tier that Speed Boost Blaziken is banned from, but blanket banning Last Respects seems simple enough, and that's what ended up happening. Just kinda weird it isn't what happened in the first place

>>56422398
The issue with allowing Blaze Blaziken is that it opens the floodgates for allowing other Pokemon into lower tiers if they're limited in what makes them so good. Where do you draw the line? Just at abilities? Just at Blaziken? If so, why does Blaziken get special treatment over anything else? It's a slippery slope that would erode the entire concept of tiers away.

>>56422402
To my understanding Blaziken got unbanned and is now UU at this point (thought it may now rise to take the place of Gouging Fire, who knows?) so the analogy breaks down here somewhat
Anyway, like I said, I get that having to micromanage what individual sets are allowed in a tier and what aren't is probably more of a headache than anyone wants to deal with, but I don't see why it would invalidate tiering in and of itself.

>>56422456
Blaziken got unbanned because, even with Speed Boost, it is no longer broken.
>I get that having to micromanage what individual sets are allowed in a tier and what aren't is probably more of a headache than anyone wants to deal with, but I don't see why it would invalidate tiering in and of itself.
Smogon is more than just OU. You can make a similar argument to Blaze Blaziken with anything. Pelipper wouldn't be good without Drizzle, Polteageist is only too good for RU because it has Shell Smash, Feraligatr isn't a problem in NU without Sheer Force, and the list goes on. If you were to allow these changes, where would you stop? And why would you only stop there?

Smogon should have banned Rage Fist instead. Annihilape isn't even that good without it. It's a gen 4 mon in a gen 9's world.

Some people just want to play with their favorite pokémon or play for fun. It's not like the smogon board has any power outside their garbo forums, or anything they do or say had any bearing on the franchise. Everyone knows pokemon games are busted and unbalanced.

>>56422471
You don't stop anywhere. It's basically the same as what's already occurring, just at a more granular level since you're doing it by set instead of by mon. That's why I don't think it invalidates tiers
But it's not gonna happen anyway so this is all kind of pointless speculation

>>56422506
>It's basically the same as what's already occurring
How?

>>56422313
I know, but still it's laughable that they banned the mon instead of the move to begin with, I don't care how many stipulations and mental gymnastics you have to make, it was a bad decision, simple as.
>If you ban the best hazard blocker ever hazards become stronger
Genuinely retarded take. Even if that was the case, stall cores got gutted to shit in gen 9 and many of the best ones still have very easy to check chokes in their defenses, especially with the absurd amount of extremely powerful wallbreakers and offensive threats we have lying around, many of which carry Taunt as well, Goldengo is a problem because it blocks every form of status and it's an insanely versatile and good pokemon otherwise, it fits in the perfect place to make hazard stacking cancer even better and it also massively helps stall anyway by the same metric since it's very good and filling core parts of that playstyle, I find it hilarious how hard people need to shit their pants trying to come up with shit arguments to defend that mistake, it's poorly design, it fundamentally makes the game worse, therefore it should get the boot, for fuck's sake, they banned Gliscor instead of Shitdengo despite Gliscor being the same as it was for several generations simply because the mere existence of Goldengo causes it to become a problem solely because of hazards and I know for a fact this is one of those pokemon that will never get dexited in future gens, just to make everyone's life worse.

>>56422512
because we are discussing a hypothetical in which differentiation is made between sets to allow some sets of specific mons to be legal in a tier but not others in the case that not all sets are a problem. You are, thus, still categorizing things by tier

>>56422527
The point is that tiers would be able to have anything in them, just as long as they're being gimped in some way.

>>56422522
Gholdengo doesn't block hazards.

>>56422534
Nah, I don't think so. Some mons can't be sufficiently gimped to work in lower tiers unless you run insanely retarded shit that no one would ever actually use (ZU Necrozma that only knows the move String Shot for example)
I know this begs the "where do you stop" question, but I think it would actually run in reverse if they wanted to actually do this. You'd submit a set from a normally higher tier mon you want think would work in a lower tier and it'd be tested for awhile before approval so it would happen organically

>>56422552
>Some mons can't be sufficiently gimped to work in lower tiers unless you run insanely retarded shit
And where do you draw the line on that? That's my point.

>>56422555
read the whole post

>>56422564
If you just start allowing everything into every tier if it runs a bad enough set, why bother even having tiers? The intention of tiers is to allow lesser-used or weaker Pokemon a chance to shine. It's a dumb slippery slope.

>>56422572
>The intention of tiers is to allow lesser-used or weaker Pokemon a chance to shine
nothing about this scenario conflicts with this idea. If anything it probably enhances it since stronger Pokemon being forced into suboptimal sets will probably be easy prey for naturally lower tier mons that can use all their best moves. I don't see how it changes much

>>56422587
Now each tier is bloated with so many new Pokemon and focus is taken away from things that are at their strongest in lower tiers rather than good Pokemon wearing kids' gloves.

>>56420374
that line of thinking is too complex for this board

>>56422537
It prevents opponents from clearing the hazards, that's the problem.
>>56422572
Many pokemon already fall into the purgatory of BL, I understand it would be annoying to program specific parameters and analyze what makes the pokemon in question too broken to be in a lower tier, but it at least gives them a niche even it it gimps them, the whole reason UUbers exists is because there's far too many pokemon that are too dumb to be in OU but too shit to be in ubers, so there's a precedent for this, the whole concept of tiers as is, is extremely flawed, remember when Terrakion and a few other legendaries fell straight to PU because they weren't used enough?

They should make 6v6 singles with VGC rules instead of 3v3 at least on online ladder

>>56422479
Being able to use your favorites is exactly the point of smogon tiers, so you don't have to use Pikachu against Mewtwo.

>>56422360
Make win rate data public and use tournament win rate data

>>56416756
RIP GAY PORN

I’m so tired of seeing Slowking-G, and as much as people claim stall “isn’t viable”, it shows up quite a bit.

>>56423211
>Being able to use your favorites is exactly the point of smogon tiers
Unless my favorite is Baxcalibur and they nonsensically ban it for no reason instead of just letting other Pokemon drop tiers.

>>56416759
Care nigga

File: 1723430884129087.jpg (167 KB, 719x682)

167 KB JPG

>>56416756
>robot digimon self-plagiarism nigmon banned
One down, six gorillion to go
>>56418745
Not one single solitary person asked

>>56423156
6v6 is objectively worse than 3v3 in every conceivable way.

>>56423988
OU is already so powercrept there's literal cover legendaries in it. Just play UUbers.

>>56424047
> OU is already so powercrept there's literal cover legendaries in it
Great, then Baxcalibur can stay there and everything else that can’t compete with Baxcalibur can drop tiers.

>>56420654
>dexcut expanding force
Just run a single Dark type.

>>56424053
Nigger why are you so mad at the concept of bans? It's just a way of deciding what belongs in what tier

>>56424196
> Nigger why are you so mad at the concept of bans
Because they’re completely arbitrary. If you’re at the point where you’re banning 20+ non-restricted Pokemon why in the fuck are you not just making another tier between UU and OU instead?

>>56424208
anon, I don’t think you know what arbitrary means.

>>56424222
Go ahead and tell us the reason to ban 20 Pokemon from OU instead of letting them stay legal and moving everything else down.

>>56416839
I'll take black lotus for 1000, Alex.

>>56424208
>non-restricted
itself an arbitrary distinction

>why in the fuck are you not just making another tier between UU and OU instead?
Why would that be a better option? Because you say so? It's ironic. You've spent this whole thread bitching about how bans are "arbitrary" when your own idea is just as arbitrary and doesn't result in any tangible benefit over the current system

>>56424225
First, Ubers has its own metagame and even has UUbers for Pokemon too strong for OU but not good in Ubers. Why make a new tier between UU and OU when said tier is going to be just UU anyways and you can play with Flutter Mane and Chien-Pao in Ubers.
Second, 20 Pokemon is a small fraction of Pokemon with there being 1026 Pokemon and 618 fully evolved Pokemon + usable NFEs + All the alternate forms.
Most games will ban a much bigger percentage of things in their game than Pokemon by a long shot.
Third, all these Pokemon that were banned had reasons to ban them, all of which are in their own threads you can find easily.

>>56424248
>itself an arbitrary distinction
Nope.

>Why would that be a better option?
Because it makes more Pokemon viable. Interesting how you didn’t actually answer my question.

>>56424260
> First, Ubers has its own metagame and even has UUbers for Pokemon too strong for OU but not good in Ubers
There’s no reason they should be in Ubers to begin with.

> Second, 20 Pokemon is a small fraction of Pokemon
Of a single tier? Not really.

> all these Pokemon that were banned had reasons to ban them
There is no reason to ban 20+ different Pokemon instead of letting them compete with each other and making everything else drop.

>>56418894
>I don't understand why VGC is the officially sponsored meta
Faster games + it's harder to accidentally make something busted

>>56424261
>Nope.
It is 100% arbitrary in a format where no one is even pretending to play the official games and in the face of the fact that many legendaries aren't actually good. Deoxys is in the lower tiers now, for example. 600 BST mons like Mew and Celebi are all the way down in NU now since their even stat distribution can't cut it in today's minmaxed environment

>Because it makes more Pokemon viable
You haven't explained how. If anything it's the opposite. A lack bans forces you to run the absolute most powerful mons and checks for those same mons. Things generally get banned because they force you to run specific counters you wouldn't otherwise use since there's no other way to check them. You want your Baxcalibur, that means literally every single team from now on needs Primarina.

>Interesting how you didn’t actually answer my question.
Indirectly I did, since the presence of Ubers UU results in basically the same thing achieved in a much more sensible way

>>56424335
>It is 100% arbitrary
No it isn't. There are reasons Pokemon are restricted.

>You haven't explained how
I can use Baxcalibur with Pokemon similar in power to it instead of having to compete with restricted Pokemon.

>A lack bans forces you to run the absolute most powerful mons and checks for those same mons
You can't run 20 Pokemon at once, retard.

>Indirectly I did
No you didn't. You haven't explained why they should be banned to begin with.

>>56424339
>There are reasons Pokemon are restricted.
Why? because daddy Nintendo says so? VGC rules are completely meaningless in other formats. Whether Nintendo says something is restricted has absolutely no relation to its competitive viability. As should be readily apparent from VGC itself. Cosmog is restricted, when was the last time you saw anyone use Cosmog for one of their restricted slots?

>I can use Baxcalibur with Pokemon similar in power to it instead of having to compete with restricted Pokemon.
No, it'd still be competing with restricted Pokemon since Darkrai got unbanned and is now used in OU, and Kyurem has been OU for a long time. Regardless, Bax's stats and moveset are make it more similar in power to ubers mons (it is a "pseudo-legendary" after all) and was thus banned to ubers. Obviously it can't compete in ubers, so now it's in ubers UU where it's perfectly usable with all the other mons that are too good for OU and not good enough for ubers and is thus currently playable in a format suited for it, which is the entire point of the tiering system

>You can't run 20 Pokemon at once
way to dodge the point and completely fail at all the context. Not everything was banned at the same time. Flutter Mane and Iron Bundle were banned pretty much instantly since they could outspeed and oneshot everything with zero setup, Bax wasn't banned until much later when it got Scale Shot. Not all banned Pokemon are equally good. All they have in common is that they force you to run counters or are too unpredictable to deal with, both of which are unhealthy for competition

Last month, there were 1.1 million gen9ou matches. Before that, 1 million.

In August 2022, there were 1.6 million gen8ou matches.

Smogon OU is dying.

>>56424464
People are probably fed up with the ridiculously unstable meta
Paradox mons were a mistake

File: IMG_20230427_021230.png (154 KB, 876x760)

154 KB PNG

>>56424464
I'm actually looking to play UU just for Quaquaval. Anyone knows any good redirection/disruption pokemon alternatives to Indeedee-F?

>>56424777
>redirection
>singles
explain

>>56424423
>VGC rules are completely meaningless in other formats
Evidently not since restricted Pokemon are consistently banned even in fanfic garbage.

>Cosmog is restricted
Because it evolves into a restricted Pokemon, yes.

>No, it'd still be competing with restricted Pokemon since Darkrai got unbanned
Why do you keep conflating Mythicals with restricted Pokemon? Are you retarded?

>and Kyurem has been OU for a long time
You mean its base form with pathetic stats?

>Regardless, Bax's stats and moveset are make it more similar in power to ubers mons
You only think this because they keep nonsensically banning non-restricted Pokemon similar to Baxcalibur instead of letting everything else drop.

>Not everything was banned at the same time
So? It wouldn't matter if they didn't nonsensically ban Pokemon to begin with.

>>56424479
The tusk hater was right all along

>>56424929
are you ever gonna stop moving goalposts
every single time you completely ignore the point
we're done here

>>56425107
start:
>smogshit shouldn’t be banning 20+ pokemon and they should move everything else down instead
end:
>smogshit shouldn’t be banning 20+ pokemon and they should move everything else down instead

wow fanficshitter, so many goalposts moved

>>56425116
and no amount of logic will convince you otherwise because your only reasoning is "they shouldn't be banned because I like them :("

>>56425158
“they should be banned because I don’t like them and I need to arbitrarily keep landorus relevant :(“ isn’t an argument.

>>56425192
good thing it isn't what anyone has been saying

>>56425232
Yes it is.

>>56425239
point to where

Convince me that VGC players don't want the single player to be barren as possible to force everyone to play VGC in order to enjoy Pokémon to the fullest. Convince me you don't hate people who want battle frontier or full National dex back because they don't dickride you the way the Melee community dickrides their top players.

>>56416841
> "everything must revolve around VGC. I resent the fact Pokémon is an RPG and not a fighting game. I want everything else destroyed so people will have no choice but to revere my skills in VGC"

>>56425429
At least VGCfags actually play the game, unlike fanfictards who do nothing but stare at tier updates.

>>56425473
> collect Pokémon
> "you stare at your pc boxes"
> play smogon
> "you stare at tierlists"
Everything but VGC is invalid to you because you are fucking selfish.

>>56425481
moving shitmons to one game to another != playing the game
staring at tier lists so you can pretend you’re knowledgeable about the game != playing the game

the fact that you think vgc is the only format that exists on cart already demonstrates that you don’t actually play it

>>56425499
Why arent there 3v3 single battles at the Worlds championships? Made me just think

>>56425567
Because even 3v3 battles can devolve into stally, endless switch fests, as seen by the original Nintendo Cup tournaments they used to hold

>>56425499
You can play the game with imported Pokémon. You can use them in battle. Also yeah I didn't buy SV because of the dexcut. Sue me you sanctimonious faggot.

>>56425586
I think that's probably a more likely outcome for 3v3 battles than it is for 6v6
With only 12 move slots per team there's a big chance you're not running any coverage for your opponent's biggest wall
And of course those old tournaments were held during gens 1 and 2, which didn't exactly have any serious metagame. All serious teams in gen 1 have the same 3-4 mons and gen 2 was probably overall the stalliest generation because of resttalk being OP, hazards consisting of one layer of spikes only (so switching isn't punished near as hard as it is in later gens) and general across the board low base power moves
Things would probably be pretty different if they held those types of events these days, especially if they allowed legendaries. There's really almost nothing that can wall Miraidon and Koraidon, to say nothing of Calyrex. Best you can do is slow them down. Even Ho-Oh, the most defensive mon in Ubers, gets oneshot by Miraidon using specs Draco Meteor

File: pikalytics-team.png (772 KB, 2628x1420)

772 KB PNG

What teams are you guys using? This is my current VGC team on showdown. Sneasler is actually quite good and puts a good amount of pressure when I deny trick room setups with Indeedee. I should probably try to optimize Indeedee and Ursaluna's EV Spreads more.

>>56426046
Based Primarinafag, hope you win it all.

>>56426046
Yeah I like all these but Indeedee. Good team.

>>56419002
>battle facilities
Anyone that pretends to like those is admitting to being a low functioning autistic.

yawnfag thread

>>56420287
Wtf are you talking about? This spread is good Deoxys Defense only fell off because it's too passive

>>56428498
The loss of Toxic was devastating to Deo-D.

>>56416756
Gouge is retarded I agree, but I'd have rather had some mons retested to check it instead of banning yet again another mon. Like did Volc and Gouge ever coexist? I feel like Gouge would be a great Volc check but it was banned again

>>56422297
Arch ban was the the most ridiculous thing I've seen in a while