smogon is rigged to its core!
>>56559263People just don't check the catalog before they post?
always knew there was something fishy with smogon.>>56559266this aint reddit, lardass. no upvootes for you.
>>56559263Lando-T, Kyurem, Clefable and Toxapex were always their whitelisted mons.They even wanted once to ban Nidoking from OU due to countering Clefable.Nothing new whatsoever.
>>56559661>Kyurem>whitelistedNigga they banned Kyurem in gen 8 after the janny in the op got BTFO by it
>>56559661Kyurem has a box legend BST, and was only ever allowed in OU because it had no moves. Then it got moves and became a problem.
>>56559263>>56559910All her three forms are legal in OU???
>>56559914No.
>>56559263>smogon is riggedGEE THANKS CAPTAIN OBVIOUS. Was them rapidfire banning every decent offensive mon the past 2 generations not obvious enough?
>>56559928>pokemon with absolutely perfect coverage on just 2 moves with the option to have a no-drawback scarf>only decentWhy are flutterfags like this?
Maybe if you didn't resort to cheating to cast your votes this wouldn't have happened.You get what you fucking deserve.
>>56559935All anti-smogonfags will the most broken shit Pokemon capable of at least 2shooting everything besides maybe Blissey, outspeed 90% of the game, and additionally has good enough bulk to fire off attacks consistently, then go “ummm yeah Smogon has a Stall agenda” after it gets banned for wrecking every playstyle that isn’t HO and ironically Stall.
>>56559981Ok, Finchi
>>56559263Aint readlng all that QRD
Cheating? literally how
>>56559999Someone has been rigging the suspect vote for years.
>>56559661>They even wanted once to ban Nidoking from a literal custom format that adjusts a pokemon's stats The average /vp/ omgon detractor in 2024.
>>56560000Someone made 11 alts and got reqs for them all.
>>56560053>one of them voted to not banThat dude has a sense of humour.
>>56560057That's based.
>>56559910It's not as clear-cut in SV because Kyurem lost Roost but gained Loaded Dice which works with both its physical STAB moves. Is that a winning trade? Hard to say, but it's still unpredictable and dangerous as fuck.
>>56560188It doesn't have the same annoyance as the sub+roost set does, but now it can boost speed while dealing a reliable amount of damage, and has the stats to support a mixed set.
>>56560196Don't forget about Tera which makes it even more unpredictable. It can easily pick its checks, lure them and take them out. That's a clear sign of brokeness.
>>56560224That's true for anything. Kyurem is a faster Baxcalibur that trades 10 points in Attack for the ability to run Earth Power and Freeze Dry.
>>56559263You know for being such a bad type Ice is sure getting A LOT of bans this generation.
>>56560231>That's true for anything.No it really isn't. It's bulky enough to turn a weakness into a resistance that can be abused with Substitutes that can't be easily broken. Frail mons can't abuse defensive Tera options that way.
>>56560236Yawnfag wins again
>>56560236All it took is a bunch of Pokemon with >550 BST and good movepools.
>>56560246>the pokemon has to be good to be goodcongrats campaignshitter you’re slowly learning how the game works
>>56560236Ice being a bad type is a pre-SS meme. HDB alone fixed their biggest issue, add Snow, Chilly Reception, Auraro Veil, Freeze-Dry getting a rather wide distribution among Ice types, Loaded Dice Icicle Spear, Terastal, improved coverage and setup options and 50% of OU being weak to Ice/Freeze-Dry and it's easy to see why the best Ice types easily get the boot.
>>56560246Just like the other types. Seems fair to me.
>>56560258Everything below that cutoff is still unusably bad.
>>56560255Also, there are precisely 5 ice/Freeze-Dry resists in OU, not counting Tera:>Cinderace (who might not even resist it after Libero type change, also weak to Earth Power)>Gholdengo (weak to Earth Power)>Iron Crown (weak to Earth Power)>Iron Moth>Kingambit (slower, weak to Earth Power)
>>56560263Gotta start from somewhere. Ice was late to the party, but it's not the first type that was overall complete trash before it got a buff in a later generation (fire, rock, poison, fighting and bug come to mind).What matters is that they finally got the memo that ice works as an offensive type so they're giving us more and more offensive ice types. That's the right direction.
>>56560279Ice still sucks as a defensive type, but it finally got things with higher speed than defense.
>>56560267>Iron Moth 4x weak to Earth PowerMan, it's almost as if Ground and Ice are really good on offense... Why aren't people using Mamoswine again?
>>56560267This is a big part of the reason Kyurem is ban-worthy. NOTHING in OU wants to switch into Freeze-Dry because even if they resist it there is the dual danger of freezehax and possible Earth Power on the switch. Kyurem is bulky enough that it can fire multiple Freeze-Drys per match and the chance of freeze hax because non-inconsequential after a few ones (roughly 28% chance of scoring a freeze after 3, which is pretty realistic).Since FD already has its special property of being SE against water, it should lose the freezehax on top of it to make it balanced. It's a broken move even if it doesn't look like that at first glance.
>>56560304lmao I forgot to mention it, somehow I was thinking about Volcarona. But yeah EVERYTHING in OU that can take FD can't take EP.
>>56560309Freeze Dry is fine as it is... Water needed a comeuppance, and the added benefit of putting Gliscor, Lando, Pelipper, Wake, and anything Water/Ground type in the grave is an welcome boon to everyone who doesn't worship at the Church of Finch
>>56560236But Kyurem ended up not being banned.And who knows, maybe Yawnfag was autistic enough to rig the votes on the other Ice types that got banned.
>>56560325The SE part is fine, but the freeze-hax certainly isn't. Ice Beam and the other ice moves are NVE against water and the special attackers usually have Scald to thaw themselves out. That kind of counterplay goes out of the windw with FD.
>>56560326Kyurem is going to remain on the radar even if it dodged the ban this time. It's not the first mon that needed multiple suspect rounds to get the boot.
>>56559999some french faglord made 11 sock puppet accounts and handed them to his buddies to ensure that Kyurem got banned. After this was discovered their votes were removed and it dropped the ban percentage from 61% ban to only 59%, and they need at least 60% to ban it
>>56560344>from 61% ban to only 59%, and they need at least 60% to ban itSuch convenient numbers... I smell something fishy here kek.
>>56560312Frosmoth is actually a pretty great counter to non-physical variants.
>>56560344Couldn't anyone else have been doing this too? So there may have been multiple people voting with multiple accounts? Not sure how many people are able to get access to "voting" though.
>>56560350you can see the thread where the voting happens, It was close because people were worried about the return of boring ass fat balance like what gen 8 ended up as, so it's not shocking that removing a few votes got it under.>>56560376Anybody can vote if you get I think 80% GXE on a voting alt, but I think they're considering changing it to 1750 ELO instead of GXE
see it like this, this "council" thought dynamax was too much for the game and banned it, yet the crux of the current meta problem, Tera, is fine according to them.i want you to think really hard about this one, a RNG gimmick that you need to play 4D chess to predict and/or play around is "better" than a big mon for 3 turns.>tldrban tera and the meta is fixed.
>>56560880>the crux of the current meta problem, TeraEvery banned Pokemon would be just as obnoxious without tera. Aside from Volcarona.
>>56560892wrong, its because of tera they got banned.volcarona is a shitmon without tera, budlight drinker.
>>56560945Reading is not your strong suit, is it?
>>56559263Wow!I'm so surprised!
>>56560880they rightfully banned dynamax but a bunch of retards gave them shit for it so now they refuse to ban gimmicks no matter how broken they are
>>56561009>they rightfully banned dynamaxnah, stalltards just couldn't keep their mouths shut.>>56560880 makes sense, tera is far worse than any previous gimmick, at least if you want to take any competitive setting seriously.
>>56561022dynamax was fucking aids dude
>>56561027i find tera worse, but to each his own.
>>56560945lmao wtf is that OT? how did they let that slide
>>56561042Technically there's no evidence that it was genned (obviously it was), but they could penalize him if they wanted to anyways
>>56561039Why?
>>56560880>ban [mechanic that increases the game’s skill ceiling] and the meta is fixedhmmmm it’s almost like smogshit players are just terrible at the game or something
>>56559263FUCKING DOGSHIT TOP PLAYER KEEP THIS META FUCKING TRASHI fucking hate that trash staller freeze haxer busted ice dragon.I just ran into a kyurem, slowking, ting lu dondozo team... fucking unplayable garbage.
>>56560880Tera isn't RNG-based at all, especially once you're familiar with the tier and realize that each mon has only a handful of logical Tera options, most of which are obvious once the set is revealed. Mons that are broken BECAUSE of Tera are those that, even though you know which one they're running, are too much to handle. Case in point: Tera Ice Regieleki.
>>56560267Doesn't help that the only thing that can take ice/ground coverage is fucking frosmoth (is it even in the game?) or some levitate ice/steel/fire mon (bronzong maybe?
>>56561245Frosmoth is in the game, going ignored as usual
>>56561245>pokemon fan>doesn't know every pokemon available in current gameyou letting us all down, man.
>Levitating Ice TypeCryogonal! Your time is NOW!
>>56559263>water is wet
https://discord.gg/yxgfph6b6P
>>56560057More like the stalljew was trying to muddy the waters
>>56560880They run everything, not even amateur competitive digital gambling simulators escape their schnoz
>>56561245>>56561334One of the strongest sets is physical with Scale shot, which probably OHKOs uninvested moth and cryo at +0. Then again I haven't lost to Kyurem very much, shitnite on the other hand
>>56564571252+ Scale Shot kills a Cryogonal with max HP investment.
>>56559263I don't give a f about smogon since they banned the strategy that made alola-sandslash viable
>>56564667based alola-sandslash enjoyerstill don't believe it would be viable as better users of the same strategy are available but hey
>>56560880>muh terayou're not fooling anyone finch
>>56560880can you believe it was pretty much exactly a year ago
>>56559263I have AI detection software for grading tests and ran his post through it. Came back flagged, lol.
>>56561022>>56561039>Anything>Worse than DynamaxDynamax was absolute dogshit. They took Z-moves, took out any nuanced downsides, let you use 3, and added a bunch of shit to make it tard proof.Tera is better recieved by the public because it’s easily the most eligant of the 4 gimmicks.
I wonder how many offensive mons got banned because stallfags used alts.
>>56565694innumerablecouncil members are truly shamelessjust gen 9 alone>1000x punitive bans after the "wrong" decision was made on tera>quick ban espathra after a suspect>gliscor ban reversed in 2 weeks because dlc>volcarona re-ban>SLEEP banned because a COUNCIL MEMBER bribed their way up ladder with a meme set (also because they were too retarded to ban darkrai)>gouging unanimousno kyurem wasn't a problem for themkyurem was one of their pet mons because it could be used as an offensive mon on stall teams
>>56565806>>SLEEP banned because a COUNCIL MEMBER bribed their way up ladder with a meme set (also because they were too retarded to ban darkrai)better than modding the game to nerf sleep while pretending it's still playing a pokemon game and not a mod of it
Kyurem underperforms so badly for a box legend that people forgot it has whole 660 BST total.
>>56559263it's time to apologize
>>56559263>smogon is a bunch of autistic tards mindbroken by rules that never mattered and never will to somehow superior normieswowit's nothing new>after an internal investigationso somebody blabbed on discord, eh?
>>56559263>zoomers learn that democracy is fake
>>56560018>Sheer Force LO, now with actual statsYeah, not hard to see why a Nidoking running around with Kyogre SpA or Mewtwo speed would be really fucking scary
>>56560236Turns out that when you can get rid of your bad defensive typing while keeping the amazing offensive typing, Ice can be really fucking good. Turns out it's especially good when you make Ice types fast, frail attackers that can take advantage of said offensive capabilities instead of shitty, slow ones that highlight how bad it is defensively
>>56569261>Turns out that when you [FANFIC]
>>56560304>Why aren't people using Mamoswine again?It's slow and outclassed by Great Tusk (Tusk can even go Ice Spinner to embarass it more)
A trustworthy, reputable site would see all this cheating and then say, "We should revote everything now that this cheating was caught."Instead, Smogon is not only refusing to have a revote for everything, but they're using this as an excuse to not ban Kyurem. They refuse to cast a revote on this issue.Smogon has been corrupt for over a decade at this point, but it just gets worse and worse with each passing year.
>>56561039Tera at least adds interesting dynamics to the game. Dynamax is "Do I click the win button now or later?"In Doubles it's arguably fine because you can at least pressure a Dynamax mon way more/play arond it easier, but in Singles it's just retarded and unfun
>>56565806>>quick ban espathra after a suspectThis was completely justified though. The only issue was that that fucking bird wasn't banned sooner
>>56569277You sure disproved my point by posting a screenshot of multiple good Ice types, all of which often used Tera in that format to get rid of their bad defensive typings and let them abuse their strong offensive ones?Snow also helps a LOT too though, I'll admit I forgot that>>56569304The only ones that'd be worth revoting are the ones that were that close. Why revote fucking Chien Pao or anything thwas 70%+
>>56569304They checked previous suspects that were also outed with this info, but none of them had impacts changed when their votes were removed. Retesting everything would basically be a format reset, which is unrealistic (but also desperately needed, fuck Tera)
>>56559263You telling me the site that lets stall exist aren't fags? surprise surprise.
>>56569399>Retesting everything would basically be a format reset, which is unrealistic (but also desperately needed, fuck Tera)The only things that'd maybe come back are Volc, Firepoon, and Eleki. Everything else is still ridiculously brokenYou really wanna retest fucking Chi-Yu or Chien Pao?
>>56560236Ice is dogshit defensively because it has no resistances.It's always been an amazing type offensively, and fast offensive Ice-types have always been a solid threat.And now that snow has replaced hail, Ice-types can now simulate having resistances by getting a defense boost. Or just actually give themselves resistances by terastalizing.It's really not rocket science to understand why gen 9 is so different for ice types than previous gens.
>>56569354>th-they often use tera>th-that’s why the only pokemon that’s tera’d is the non ice type!!play the game
>>56569552Explain this then
>>56569636doesn't disprove what i said, try again.
>>56565806gonna need a source on all those outlandish claims, sweetie.
>>56570710>Ice types tend to Tera>N-NO THEY DON'T, HERE'S A PICTURE OF ONE BATTLE WHERE THEY AREN'T. THIS MEANS THEY NEVER DO>Post pic of a battle where one does>T-THAT DOESN't COUNT BECAUSE...IT JUST DOESN'T OKAYAre you okay retard-kun?
>>56570815one rare example is not an argument
>>56566058A ban is a modification to the game rules to exclude an option available in said game. Banning sleep is practically indistinguishable from modding all sleep moves out.
>>56559263>smogon is riggedNo shit. They should have to redo all votes for this generation now.You know 100% the Volcarona ban was bullshit.
>>56560880The council did run a suspect on Tera and the community voted to keep it.
>>56572195They're referring to sleep clause, which is a mod
>>56572825No its not, I play with it every time I fire up Stadium 2. Oh wait, you guys play that silly fanfiction format with no item clause where you ban everything that clashes with one community clique's idea of a "balanced game", don't you? Yeah, ban entire move subsets to maintain "on cart legitimacy", have fun lads.
>>56560188>an ice type>trading defensive utility for offensive powertake a wild fucking guess if it was a good trade
>muh competitive meta in a game with accuracy rng% and random critical hitslol
>>56573810I don't even care what Smogon does, just pointing out how sleep clause is a mod that's been mechanically impossible since gen 4. It's always been hypocritical to obsess over accurate mechanics 99.99% of the time but then throw it out the window for sleep clause.
>>56574239If they wanted to maintain cart accuracy in their simulators they would also maintain a gen accurate battle timer, but it feels (as an outsider looking in) as if Smogon can't decide whether they want to be pure and true to what can be done on cart or whether they want to make a game that is pokemon mechanics rebuilt in their own image. If it is the former, the amount of playstyle bans goes against the purity of the concept - if it is the latter, things like Sleep Clause are fine to implement.
>>56574295this made no sense
>>56574203Doesn't stop players for consistently winning locals, regionals, world cups, tournaments. Doubles, singles, 6v6, 3v3 etcGet good, shitter
>>56575441>the illusion of skillmany such cases
>>56560258No. Steel types used to be able to be good even with shit stats. And still are generally better than their stats typically would set their par. As an example. Fairies are the same.
>>56575300Smogon claims that it can't use sleep clause in current gens because it deviates from cartridge accurate mechanics. Cartridge accurate mechanics include the battle and turn timer, yet Smogon approved simulators on Showdown don't model the Battle and Turn Timer, making some tactics more or less viable in a way that is not cleanly replicated on cart.
