>>56604709
honestly forgot all about this. dont think I ever deciphered the text myself because im retarded.
nice to know that there was at least something meant to be there.

wait, so it was just some generic counters and nothing too interesting?

>>56605180
yep. it’s nothing interesting.
king battling kyogre? debunked
king teaming up with arceus? debunked
name of king being Harmonia? not sure, but the placeholder for the name is ‘Symbol for God’ and I don’t see the connection between the two.

So the 4 unknown symbols just meant “1,000”, “10,000”, “100,000” and “God” all this time? Lame, also rip the theory that the last symbol meant N or Harmonia

>>56604709
Wow. That's worse than nothing. Why even make a mystery over this?

>>56604709
fuck this is what I was interested the most
it's literally over

>>56604709
Sad but at the same time I’m glad it’s over

The King was Arceus the whole time?

>>56605245
the Harmonia thing was hypothesized because it is strongly implied by various details, for example the number of blank characters that changed in the various localisations. The first three were more mysterious since there were way more possible words for them.
OP, where do this screencap comes from? How old is it?

>1k enemies defeated by Arceus alone
There were a thousand giants that were singlehandedly defeated by Arceus
>10k allies made by Arceus
Arceus initially made 10k different humans
>Arceus summoned 100k creatures
100k Pokemon
>Arceus is the future
>Great king Arceus
Humans and Pokemon revere Arceus

>>56606863
B2W2 source code leaked the other day. I dug into the game files myself and made the screencap. The .gmm file is an xml that contains the text entries for the different interact events on the final abyssal ruins floor.

If you’re a localizer, normally you’d replace the original JPN entries with your language. But because this puzzle uses a set ciphertext (the shinden runes, which are the same for all localizations), it’s different. Deciphers depend on how Ghetsis’ Notes are localized. But whoever made the original JPN entries included comments specifying what the deciphered plaintext should be (without obfuscation by Ghetsis’ notes).

And the comment for the one ciphertext entry whose plaintext isn’t obfuscated, when translated to english, matches the official deciphered plaintext exactly. So it’s safe to assume the other comments are the exact deciphered plaintext too.

>>56606999
fuck it, I believe it.
Aus is king.

>>56605245
The whole king being named Harmonia thing was all but confirmed in B2W2. In the postgame, Zinzolin explains that the king had the special ability to speak to Pokémon, and that if he had descendants then that power would likely be inherited. N tells the player that Ghetsis took him in and have him the name Harmonia after finding out that he can talk to Pokémon. Hell, the crown that he bestows upon N in BW intro is the same as the Relic Crown found in the Abyssal Ruins.

Honestly I wouldn’t take these comments as anything substantial. They were probably added without a second thought and the scriptures likely have a deeper meaning that was never meant to be uncovered.

it may be blasphemy, but the
>symbol for god
could still be Harmonia
Unovans are heretics

>>56607239
I guess the ultimate cope for somehing more interesting would be dig in the beta and hope there is something.
If you are willing, would you do this for us? Thanks.

>>56606999
Arceus has taken on both male and female forms
N is a descendant of arceus (male)

>>56607676
i’ve already taken a peek at the code and didn’t see any interesting notes. i can try going to a beta revision to see if the text is any different, but to be honest i don’t really expect to find anything more related to the lore of the ruins in the source code. it’d be better if we got the production documents leaked like DP.

>>56607885
they aren't?

>>56606568
this is why I never get committed to lore, it's never worth it, and there's never any pay off
this is the one thing gen 5 had that was interesting, and it was worse than a nothing burger

>>56604709
Based Zinzolin.

>>56608099
Nope. We got the B2W2 SVN, but hardly any production material.
We mostly got production material for DP, which is why the board is in a frenzy over the official rapefics.

>>56604709
So the unknown symbols were numbers. 1000, 10000 and 100000. And the "great king" was actually God.

>>56607345
If anything this proves they saw Harmonia as a god.
Which makes sense. It actually possibly ties into the story of a human who was chosen by Dialga and Palkia to defeat Giratina, which was also in the leaks. That human had the power of the lake trio on his side. That may have been where his ability to understand pokemon came from.

>>56608510
Actually nevermind that’s unrelated since that guy only defeated Giratina, not 1000 beings
That’s probably unrelated to the creation myth desu
Arceus didn’t get 10000 people to join it, as nobody else existed back then

>>56607565
Arceus is a false god who seduces people with sex

>>56609110
Sounds like my Goddess

>>56604709
He killed a GIANT. HOW IS THAT NOT RELEVANT?

I have been telling you that N is a Jesus while Arceus is a God. And N IS HIS SON.

>>56609584
Anon, if it were actual good lore then it'd suck that its not in the game.
Of course it was going to be a minor shit.

>>56604709
Wow... It's really nothing...
Thank you for this though, that's pretty cool of you.

I can't find anything else at the moment. this seems to be it. it's not much, but at least it solves the mystery and brings a little more clarity to who or what the king is.

I don't think we'll get an absolute answer to that last question unless production material or TL notes leaks.

I never got into this lore to begin with, what's the full story?

>>56608150
honestly it was more of a curiousity I had since childhood, given that they went out of their way to make this plave mysterious as possible. I guess BW2 at the end of the day already shone light on it somewhat, but those mysterious glyphs were still bugging me. OP probably already sealed the whole thing once for all and given that we know that the last glyph was meant to be Harmonia through localisation comparision we proably know what that placeholder was swapped for.
However, since it is not referenced here in the files, that info (last gliph = Harmonia) had to be told to the localisers somewhere else and we still have to see if we are lucky and some prodcution stuff tells us more clearly what this thing was conceptualised.
In other words, I believe there could be still something more juicer somewhere and hopefully it was leaked. That said, I guess for now this childhood mystery is to be considered closed in somewhat lame way.

>>56610277
thanks OP. Let's hope for that in those gazillion GBs of stuff there is something akin Gen 4's schizoid cosmogony. Given how "serious" the story of Gen 5 presented itself it could have been even more crazy in brainstorming stage than the Aus' stuff we got, and could also be a proof of whether GF kept the previous stuff as lore backdrop or dropped it more or less entirely.

>>56610355
the backstory of Unova revolves around 2 legendary heroes who used to control the original dragon, until they fought and it split apart.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Heroes_of_Truth_and_Ideals

They created their own kingdoms, and their castles are believed to be the Relic Castle and Abyssal Ruins.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Abyssal_Ruins
What's interesting about the latter, is that there's ciphertext scattered about that need to be deciphered for clues to solve each of the dungeon floors. And at the final floor of the dungeon, there's ciphertext that when deciphered... has obfuscated lore about some 'King' which is believed to be one of the legendary heroes and potential (if we take Zinzolin's theory as true)
>Zinzolin notes that the king's ability to see the future, talk to all living things, and unite the people resembles the legendary hero, and speculates that those special powers may have been passed to his descendants.

so for over a decade we've had incomplete text about this King:
>King defeated [REDACTED] alone.
>[REDACTED] joined King in a day.
>King called [REDACTED] beings.
>The great King [REDACTED].

People theorized the following:
>The King defeated Kyogre, because there's some lore about him defeating a great wave
>The King was joined by Arceus, since the plates can be found near the ruins
>The King's name was Harmonia (based on what Zinzolin says, and the number of characters used for the redaction matched the number of characters in 'harmonia') and is an ancestor of N

But now we get OP's screencap which shows none of this is true. Harmonia thing is still plausible because of what Zinzolin says in game. But there's no hard confirmation. But the translated text is "Symbol for God" which is contradictory.

>>56610884
The Harmonia thing is 100% true, leaks don't disprove shit. The "Symbol for God" implies that that's how Unovans viewed the king, as is explained by >>56608510. The "ability to see the future" pretty much confirms that the king is a direct ancestor of N. Masuda revealed that in an initial draft of the character, N was able to see the past and futures of all living beings.

https://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Junichi_Masuda_reveals_information_on_N

And that's not to mention that Ghetsis directly sought out N after thoroughly investigating the contents of the Abyssal Ruins; he learned that he was descended from one of the legendary heroes of Unova. I.e., he was the perfect vessel to impose his will upon. It's also seemingly why he was able to befriend the legendary dragon in BW. It's kind of lame that the other inscriptions are lame and have no real meaning but the Harmonia shit is pretty much confirmed.

>>56604709
i dont get it. is the king Harmonia or Arceus?

>>56604709
Are there any dev comments associated with Zinzolin's notes? I'm curious if the name length Harmonia theory has basis, or if it was a coincidence.

>>56611579
The length only fits (5 characters) if the name is written in Japanese as ハルモニア but the cipher is in romaji.

And from the leaked stuff, none of the other lengths match the text if they're in Japanese, the others are all ●●●● (four characters) when they source text is five, six and seven characters accordingly.

>>56605245
the symbol represents God, it also represents 8 characters in the international versions of the game. God=Harmonia. People at the time might have seen the Harmonia family akin to deities.

>>56612094
Your logic is sound, but now I'm more confused. Why did only the symbol of God's length change between localizations? If there are no notes for context telling the localizers to change the length, did they just all decide on their own what word length was "Godly" enough in their native languages?

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im back
i should have specified that i was on a bw revision for OP (b2w2 and bw sources are bundled together)
i took a look at b2w2 and d20r0801 is mostly the same, except it includes the scrambled deciphered text that you get after applying Zinzolin's notes.

>>56613100
>seriously no translation notes on the cypher
That the Harmonia theory worked in so many languages is nothing short of a miracle. Thank you for checking!

>>56613150
no problem. though it begs the question: what's the determination for how many ● a translator chose to use for obfuscate the symbol of god? is it completely arbitrary?

>>56613387
English translator chose a random decision and the rest just copypasted is how it usually works

We can see from the numbers that the circles mean nothing

>>56613387
I stand with my theory that it was told to them somewhere else and they simply never changed the text in the files. It must be deliberate, at least the last message.

>>56613452
>rest just copypasted
yep, I can believe it.
this was a bit of an anticlimactic reveal but at least we have clarity.

im gonna be datamining for any other goodies i can find in the B2W2 and HGSS sources. if anyone has a suggestion or a bounty for something, im free to take a look.

>>56613452
The weird case here is that only French and Italian have the same 8 circle long "word of God" length as English, and French used a different length for the three numbers. Spanish used 7 circles, and German used 10 circles. Japanese and Korean use 5 circles.

The significance of this is that Spanish, which uses 7 circles, also translated ハルモニア as "Armonia" instead of "Harmonia". If the circle length was just copy-pasted from the English localization, there would be no reason for this to change. Ergo, it must be a word that changed in the Spanish localization, etc etc, theory confirmed.

... except that it's still "Harmonia" in German. The theory assumed that the German translator just didn't get the memo, but if it's random, then the length never mattered and the German translator is vindicated.

>>56613739
Obviously we can piece a lot of it together though the DP docs, but I'm curious if there are any internal notes on the Sinjoh Ruins event. Otherwise, maybe the part where Ghetsis tries to kill you? I'm actually interested in Pokestar Studios revisions/alt text that didn't make it to the final movies, but that's got to be huge and boring so don't worry too much about it

If that last glyph was meant to be Harmonia they would’ve clearly said so in the leaked document and not just said it was “god”, it doesn’t mean anything other than “god”

>>56614386
then why in most languages the number of circles and the numbers of letter to the localised Harmonia name match? It is possible that there was a memo that we don't know about and we know that the symbol representing God is a placeholder.
>>56613739
> internal notes on the Sinjoh Ruins event
seconded. Were there lines of text for the "event" where you could catch the third gen legendaries? If so that could be interesting as well.

>>56614386
If the king is "God" and N is speculated in-game to be the king's descendant, that means N is the son of God. That's more interesting than if the symbol just meant "Harmonia". Granted, the possibility that the glyph was pronounced Harmonia and meant God would have been even cooler, but even this much as great.

>>56613739
What about finding additional traces of a scrapped Hilbert and Hilda appearance in BW2? See if there’s anything beyond those PWT lines?

>>56614078
>>56614821
so in the scripts for dungeons and scenes in HGSS and BW, the dev notes are just describing how the scene plays out before and after the dialogue entry happens. It's like a textual storyboard. It's nothing special. No Arceus lore or comments about Ghetsis killing people.

For anyone wanting to take their own look, D51 is the dungeon ID for Sinjoh. D52 is for Embedded Tower.

>>56615443
for Sinjoh, is the the weird video that plays during the event referred in any way?

Maybe N is heir of Arceus. A descendant of the age when Pokemon and human fucked each other.

>>56614386
Many ancient civilizations believed that kings/emperors were basically a god encarnate.
Since we have new gen 4/Arceus related lore I think people would be inclined to just apply that gen 4 stuff to gen 5, like "god = arceus", but it could just be that Unova had its own meaning to the word god.

>>56616589
Truly a Jesus figure born by a virgin dad

>>56616273
nope, script ends as soon as you choose which creation legend you want. then the next script picks up with Shirona. no mention of the video.
it's played somewhere else, just not sure where at the moment.

>>56616720
This is why he can speak to Pokemon.

>>56616698
I don't think so. From gen 4 and on, Arceus is consistently considered the "god" in Pokemon universe. I would think that GF would mess with that concept. Also, Abyssal Ruins are full of Plates. Of course they are referring to Arceus.

N is the Pokemon version of Da Vinci Code's "Holy Grail" which was the living descendant of God.

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>waited over 13 years for this reveal
what a let down

>>56616763
Well I think that's it for the super duper secret 2005 lore. Let's hope that somewhere we have documents similar to the one for DP. Thanks Zinzolin anon.

>>56617539
Wake up! The reveal couldn't be more fascinating. N is Arceus' descendant. This is why he is treated as a very special entity, guarded by a mysticist Team of sages and crusaders. This is why he can talk to Pokemon.

Abyssal Ruins totally is in praise of Arceus. You can literally find the Plates=fragments of the defeated giants according to the myth. You also find the Relic Crown which N wears. Connect the dots. We also literally learned yesterday that Arceus had human descendants, according to the myth files.

>>56617784
when will N be crucified for my sins (of having sex with pokemon)?

His parallel is a descendant of Jesus, like Dan Brown's interpretation of the "Holy Grail", not Jesus hmself.

>>56617924
Also, according to the legend, the Crusaders were after the Holy Grail.

Associating stuff with Arceus just because of the word 'god' is pretty damn retarded. Have you forgotten we are dealing with polytheism here?
Hell, even before gen 4 Celebi was a called a god in jp material.

>>56618118
Probably, it's you who is retarded. Who are the Plates, which literally fill the Abyssal Ruins, connected to? Celebi? Are you kidding me?

>>56618118
did you not play the game? it's associated with Arceus because the plates are scattered there.

Another similarity with the Da Vinci Code is the theme of 'deciphering,' much like in the Abyssal Ruins. N also wears something resembling a Rubik's Cube around his neck. The more I think about it, the more certain I become."

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>>56618118
It's too early to discard the idea that "god" symbol refers to King Harmonia (who may or may not derive his power from Arceus). Even without tying everything back to Arceus, the idea of King Harmonia as a god in contrast to G-Cis as a devil is still interesting to ponder.

>>56618355
But the story of the Abyssal Ruins has a strong resemblance to the creation myth of Arceus.

>>56618408
Which parts in particular? Not disagreeing, just something I'd like to confirm.

>>56618408
Perhaps King Harmonia was actually Arceus in human form. Some leaked mythological texts mention that Arceus could take the shape of a human being.

>>56618609
>The king singlehandedly fended off 1,000 enemies.
Arceus singlehandendly killing giants that became part of the plates
>The king gained 10,000 allies in a single day
Acreus's many "arms", possibly Unkown (howeve the stated number in thr dexis 1k arms, not 10k)
>The king summoned 100,000 creatures in a single day
history of literally everything else i guess

>>56613100
where tf are the leaks

>>56618788
Hmm... I guess the Abyssal Ruins could be describing events metaphorically and not literally but the counter words it uses for those numbers doesn't make me think of those things. 1000人 and 10,000人 use people as a counter and 100,000匹 counts animals. I suppose 人 makes sense for giants but I would probably use 体, and if 10,000 allies means 10,000 Unown I would expect to see 匹. To me this sounds more like the exaggerated account of a King Solomon figure who gets his authority from Arceus that literally Arceus itself. The plates in the Abyssal Ruins make it hard to deny some kind of connection with Arceus exists.

>>56604709
I remember when Zinzolin said that

>>56608150
it's almost like lore is meant to be vague and mysterious to make your world seem deeper than it actually is

>>56619000
The key point is that the evidence strongly suggests N's concept is rooted in the "Holy Grail" myth. This supports the idea that he descends from god himself, rather than from a fully human king somehow connected to the Pokémon god. Without the leaks indicating that Aus took human form, mated with humans, and produced offspring, this theory wouldn’t hold as much weight.

So, what exactly is N? Is it merely that he has royal blood? How do the sages and crusaders fit into this narrative? And why is he able to communicate with Pokémon?

>>56619000
Also, in the comments they explicitly use the word "god" for the king. Can we just ignore that and say "nah, they are referring to human king".

>>56613739
Can you check HDSS Ruins of Alph? There were some changed lines if I remember right.

>>56619256
>>56619328
It's a bit convoluted and the evidence starts to get more loosey-goosey but I myself have always been a "King Harmonia is half Pokemon" believer so I would envision King Harmonia as a direct descendant of Arceus and N as a descendant of King Harmonia probably with a Zoroark mother.
Basically, I think you and I aren't so far from each other in ideas, the main point of contention seems to be that I still believe in the existence of a King Harmonia as a separate character from Arceus while the other argument is that the glyph symbolizing god means this is not the case and only Arceus exists as a character.

>>56613100
They may have gotten the instruction to use "Harmonia" from somewhere else then or be someone who already understood the story enough, because the number of dots matches up for all languages (whereas the other dots seem more arbitrary)

>>56619360
any line in particular?

>>56619383
I think this is the sensible read. The King was "God", but also distinctly human. N is the descendant of Poke-Jesus, who awoke to the "divinity" of his lineage. Considering the circumstances of his life, the other living descendants didn't have the same powers.

>>56619574
I agree. It neatly explains why Ghetsis lacks supernatural abilities of his own and needs N for his plans.

>>56619383
I don't disagree with the notion that King Harmonia could be a descendant of Arceus and not Arceus himself. It wouldn't affect the concept of the 'Holy Grail' idea. The comment in the source code suggests that Harmonia equals Arceus, but it could also be a remnant of an earlier idea from GF, or simply a reference to the 'party-god King.'

>>56619519
Hmm. Dialogue inside the house may have notes on changes from GSC. The puzzles have different dialogue in EN between Crystal and HGSS, but I don't know if that's also true in JP.

Additionally, this may be outside of the scope of asking about an area, but following Pokemon have unique interactions in the Ruins of Alph. If a lot of the notes are descriptive, there's a chance the notes on those could give further clarification on why they're behaving oddly there.

Does anyone have the magnet links to the sprites and (concept) art that was leaked? I've tried the GD backup but it keeps saying the download quota was reached and I've tried reserve searching the hashes into magnet links but those don't work either. Can anyone send the magnet links directly?

Why is our peaceful lore thread suddenly glowing?

>>56619719
>>56619290

nice. this is the stuff i want from the leaks. not typhlosion rape spam.

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WE HAVE A NAME
out of curiosity I checked the commit history of the file, and sure enough... there's an English name identified for the king in one of the earliest versions: Rifuge

Notable history of the file:
>March 19th 2010: the original plaintext for the 4 inscriptions on the top floor are added
>March 26th 2010: the plaintext is replaced with English
>April 24th 2010: the plaintext is replaced with the cipher + shinden rune font
>June 3rd 2010: dev comments are added to the entries, and their content is almost identical to the original text from March 19th

Pic related is the March 26th diff. The original Japanese kanji and romaji are highlighted red (text entries being replaced by the new english plaintext in green). There's no difference in the translation from what I can tell.

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>>56621768
Never been more excited in my life to have my ideas btfo in real time. Good work, Zinzolin.

>>56621768
>Rifuge
This seem a inversion of a jp abbreviation of Game Freak (Gerifu).

>>56621768
Looks like a placeholder. It's an anagram of ゲーフリ (Gamefreak nickname)

>>56621768
This is pure crack but in the new drafts the Hakai-dan (proto-Team Plasma) was made up of members of extremely oppressed minorities. I wonder if リフーゲ comes from a misreading of refugee?

>>56621960
>>56621987
Nevermind, I >>56622027 am on crack.

>>56621960
>Gerifu
*Gefuri

>>56621960
>>56621987
ah, good eye. I have no fluency in moon runes.
at least it's further confirmation for the other translations. won't hurt to scrub the revision of this repo for ゲーフリ to see if anything related comes up.

>>56611552
The ability to see the future also connects him to Kyurem who, little known lore, can also see the future and presumably the og dragon could too.

>>56621768
>Numbers in parenthesis
Makes me wonder if they knew they would be using shinden runes at this point, and that the numbers would get special runes. But there's no place for the symbol of God rune yet?

Actually, knowing this, I'm shocked that they resisted making the symbol of God the Game Freak logo.

>>56604709
How many arms does Arceus have again?

so... anything about Sinjoh or Alph?

>>56624192
I asked about Sinjoh before, and apparently there wasn't anything of interest.

>>56608415
Explains why Arceus' plates were down in the ruins, honestly - the palace was built as a temple to him(her?).
>>56608658
Arceus' "hands", dude. Arceus created an army of itself from across the multiverse.

>>56624192
>>56624514
People haven't looked through most stuff because it's in Japanese and a lot of files are in extensions we can't even open. So far the only thing close to juicy that wasn't saved as plain text or an image is this thread's OP's abyssal runes taken from the source code, it'll probably be weeks before people find anything of value.

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>>56621768

>>56624192
>>56624514
>>56626057
yeah, I've only scratched the surface. I've looked through some code and and the scripts for Alph and Sinjoh but nothing has caught my eye... yet. with OP there was some direction, an end goal to uncover. right now i'm just looking aimlessly for things out of the ordinary.
only cool thing I've found so far are the assets and animation timeline for the Arceus Sinjoh cutscene. modifying it to include custom textures shouldn't be too challenging.

>>56627137
I'm trying to think of what parts of the game could have interesting "stage directions" and drawing a blank. The Giovanni cutscenes?

>>56621768
>Game Freak, shortened and backwards
What's a good way to Anglicize this other than, I dunno, Aerfag?