>>56616689
Ashbros...........did our self insert really fall off that fast.

>>56616712
yes, we're glad you're having this revelation

>>56616689
For milking money duh.

>>56616689
Familiarity and not wanting to risk the anime doing poorly because Ash and his friends aren't there. Wonder what they think now since the anime is a bigger success due to trying a different MC for once

>>56616689
Because of that megafaggot Yuyama having influence and therefore having a say on how the anime should go. It's only during Alola that the higher-ups finally told him to STFU and finish Ash's story.

>>56616689
Because the anime was still making bank and every time they tried to make a spin off the ratings fell even harder then the previous season. People were only invested in the anime for the idea of Ash eventually winning a League and facing off against the Champion of the region in a climactic showdown. It took them essentially poisoning the well for people to give up on it and realizing that it would have been long since better with a new protag.

Imagine doing One Piece without Luffy
Imagine doing Naruto without Naruto
Imagine doing Fate without Artoria
Imagine watching childrens anime

>>56616689
The boomer series director and his "vision". So every time Ash lost you can thank this guy. After the Kalos lost he had the nerve to go against Ash winning the Alola League but thankfully everybody else FINALLY overruled him after 25 years of just blindly following him.

>>56616860
>if it were up to him we'd still be following Ash in Paldea
kek

>>56616849
>Imagine doing Fate without Artoria
God I fucking wish

>>56616749
>Wonder what they think now since the anime is a bigger success due to trying a different MC for once
LMFAO

>>56616689
I've been saying this: Gen 4 honestly felt like the perfect time for Ash to retire.

>>56617039
And then suddenly Tobias elbow dropped our hopes and dreams into oblivion

>>56616689
Fuck the anime staff, we should have gotten a new protag for Advanced or let May or Brendan be the protagonist.

>>56616689
This feels like at some point midway into Journeys, the anime staff decided to replace Ash and then informed TPC of it, who swiftly demanded someone come to the office and explain exactly what the fuck is going on.

>>56617086
Funnily enough the name of the GF employer whose account was hacked is the same as Tobias' jp name.

>>56616712
He was an AU Red, of course he's going to wear off after Gen 1/2 were done.

>>56617482
Say it ain't so, this is getting ridiculous

>>56616849
>Imagine doing One Piece without Luffy
>Imagine doing Naruto without Naruto
They are widely regarded as the worst parts of their series.

Team Rocket were really popular

>>56616849
One Piece and Naruto are shonens, Fate is a seinen. Pokemon is a kodoma.

>>56618296
It's true. Tobias is Takuto.
The employer is Takuto Takabe.

>>56616849
>Imagine doing Fate without Artoria
I mean there is Fate without Artoria.
Fate without a Saberface on the other hand...

>>56618336
The worst part of Naruto is Sasuke though

>>56616689
>they allow Ash’s journey to finish in Johto
>TRio and Giovanni can have an actual conclusion since they don’t need to keep them around for the next season
>Ash beats Gary at the Johto league finals and could even fight Lance afterwards
Anything good in the latter seasons of the anime would be just fine with another protag

>>56616749
>Wonder what they think now since the anime is a bigger success due to trying a different MC for once
I think they could have kept Ash as long as they didn't stick with the formulaic writing.

>>56616849
>Imagine doing Fate without Artoria
anon

>>56616849
>imagine pokemon without ash
so like the games then?

>>56616849
>Imagine doing One Piece without Luffy
>Imagine doing Naruto without Naruto
You can't be this retarded this is an impossibly stupid comparison

It's interesting how even Sugimori is participating in the discussions in the emails but Satoshi is nowhere to be found.
I guess this confirms he retired for good after GS.

>>56616849
>Imagine doing Naruto without Naruto
I would imagine it being a nameless anime that's for sure.

>>56616849
imagine doing pokemon without pokemon

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I just don’t get why they need to make him lose every single major championship. Why not let him win multiple times, and still have him travel around every region, trying to “win them all”? He won the Orange League, and still kept going, right?

>>56619093
I wonder what the fuck he's doing. Does he just have fuck you money now and does whatever? And if he wanted to come back, I assume they'd let him in.

>>56616712
I mean Sinnoh's end was defacto the point the anime went to shit, slightly earlier with the films since Giratina and the Sky Warrior is where we start to go from "okay to good" to "Okay at best" outside of one or two exceptions to personal taste after that point.

>>56616749
>Wonder what they think now since the anime is a bigger success due to trying a different MC for once
LOL

LMAO even.

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>>56616689
>To my knowledge, Ishihara has been saying that for about 20 years.
Ouch.

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>>56616849
>Imagine doing Naruto without Naruto
The best arc of Naruto was starred by picrel

>>56619540
They gaslit themselves into believing that him winning a League means he'd have to retire period.

>>56621109
godlike theme

>>56616689
the only way they could've kept ash was to age him up and eventually have him play a mentor character to his replacement
keeping him 10 forever was a terrible idea

>>56616849
It's more childish to keep posting on /vp/ past age 19 and yet

>>56621235
The genuinely thought they could treat the anime like Shin-chan, with an eternally young cast getting into new adventures every week. They didn't expect their audience to want character development and plot advancement.

>>56618712
I bet you that it was a subtle hint from them that they weren't ever going to let him win.
>We should do this every season he gets to the league. Just have a Gamefreak empolyee with an OP team come in and beat his ass.
Honestly, at least that would have been funny at some point. Like "What kind of team will we see Sweep Ash this season? Will it be a Sheninja? Or maybe a Trick Room shell smash Shuckle? Or maybe a Swords Danced Baton pass'd Magikarp? How much can we humiliate this boy?"

>>56616849
>Imagine doing Fate without Artoria
So what you're saying is that they should replace Ash with Red who looks exactly like him but has a different VA?

>>56621361
Unfortunately, the earliest game Takuto worked on was SwSh so it's very unlikely he was around back then.

>>56618336
Luffy has been number one in every popularity poll for one piece’s entire existence. Which is rare because it’s usually either the edgelord rival or fujobait couple taking the top spots.

>>56616689
Pokemania unfortunately cemented himself as a "Mickey Mouse" level of iconic mascot, so they were unable to ditch him without the risk of alienating and destroying their new western market.

>>56621290
It wasn't even just the aging audience either.
>Have only like 1k episodes to fall back on
>New audience comes in and starts at the beginning and binges the entire series because they don't have much to do and it's cheap to watch everything in the modern era
>New audience becomes bored with the formula and wants new things to happen
They just didn't think that it would ever come to this, that they would run into the problem of the current audience consuming EVERYTHING and still wanting more. They were thinking of the mindset that as the audience aged and a new one would come in, they would just consume the latest stuff and wouldn't care. It is that mindset of "It's not our problem for today", the kick the can down the road. Not realizing that modern tech means faster consumption. Pokemon had stayed a 90s series long after it was acceptable.

>>56616849
That's what they did anon.
None of the respective gens had their respective protagonists appear save for cameos or the female choice for MC as the side girl, and that's assuming said MC got one cameo at all, Gen 5 people got screwed too with the side girl (enjoy Iris kek), no comment on anything past Gen 6 (lmao).

>>56616849
>Imagine doing One Piece without Luffy
Maybe it wouldn't be so mid. Could even be good.

>>56616849
Naruto is the worst part of Naruto

>>56619093
>>56620070
Maybe he didn't like the direction Pokemon was going but was greedy for money and didn't intervene?

>>56620349
The Giratina movie was good. The Arceus movie is when they went to shit. The 13th, the Zorua movie still had the quality of the other non-Arceus gen IV movies.
The Unova movies were the worst. The Kalos movies were at least better than the Unova movies with the 19th movie having the quality of the pre-Arceus movie.

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>>56616689
We lost bros. Imagine the BW/BW2 anime we could have got... We lost

>>56621702
>Instead of getting hyped to do cool adventures like in the anime kids got to watch some random dude that can't win a tournament to save his ass doing shit

>>56619540
You can, but then you can't have him struggling to get gym medals after a certain point.

>>56620349
> defacto the point the anime went to shit
Kek no, it was long prior to that.

>>56621290
> They didn't expect their audience to want character development and plot advancement.
That's not an issue as people don't expect that from Shin-Chan either.
The issue is that Ash was directly put into a quest where the progress is directly measurable meaning you literally can't make it fully episodic like SC.
the actual issue is not the lack of le plot or le character development, its that they never undesrtood what show they making.

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>>56619540
The anime's head guy, Yuyama, made it clear that his philosophy on the goal of "becoming a Pokemon Master" is unattainable, and more about the chase than the actual goal. However, as the meeting notes state, the fans have conflated "Pokemon Master" with "becoming Champion", which meant that in Yuyama's mind, Ash is literally not allowed to win a Championship, because then people will think he's a Pokemon Master, when he isn't.
>Yuyama was fighting with the rest of staff all the way through SuMo's anime to change the planned ending and make Ash lose again.
>SuMo's ending was planned in advance to have Ash win as direct damage control to what happened in Kalos.
>Production team basically went mutinous and told Yuyama to fuck off, and even then he insisted Ash have a line about how he's not actually a Pokemon Master because everyone involved with this damn franchise is on the fucking spectrum.
Does that explain it, Topazbro?

>>56616689
I'm actually not sure. Pokemon is not a show that grows with its audience, and since that's the case Ash should have gone a long time ago and shown up in the journeys of others, same with Gary. Like the OG red ranger. Every season reintroduces the concept of Pokemon and that makes more sense with a different protag every time they do that. It does not make sense to have ash Pokedex a koffing, he saw a koffing basically every day of his life for a time. That's exclusively for the benefit of the audience, who wasn't there, and it makes more sense to have a character who learns alongside the audience. At some point you have to let Ash be a veteran trainer, and at that point he's not relatable to the young children that are the target audience.
At the same time, nerds do not like change and Japanese nerds REALLY don't. Look at Goku, he was clearly meant to pass the torch to Gohan after the Cell Games and Japan was not havin' it. That's how it is with Ash. Could he have finally gotten his championship, looked across to his younger opponent and said "don't be sad, you did well. I've been in your shoes before. Don't stop trying, don't let your friends down, don't give up on yourself, because they won't. Who knows? You might be the very best!", and then he gives him his hat, we pass the torch, Ash gets to be the very best like no one ever was, and the show runners get to write the same show again for a new audience. Wrinse and repeat every other generation, keep the hat as a motif. But there'd have been hell. Lose-lose situation. Instead Ash got to re-learn lessons he'd already learned, rediscover pokemon he'd already discovered, never seeming to learn or grow because of he did he might change, and change bad.
All that to say, why didn't they? Because the only winning move was not to, just wait it out until the old guard changes and a torch can be passed or we get Pokemon Super.

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OK, what the fuck is this?

>>56625588
look up kyoani fire

>>56625165
>the fans have conflated "Pokemon Master" with "becoming Champion"
Well, if you have him constantly trying to become champion of fucking course people will think that.
And even then, ashfags have always said the opposite as a defense of the show.

Damn, we could've followed Brendan and May's journey in the Advanced era...

>One single autism hellbent on making the anime into an endless series like Doraemon or Sazae-san despite how Pokemon as a concept and idea and as a franchise being completely and absolutely incompatible with such an idea cucked and ruined the anime for two decades and by the time people finally told him to fuck the consequences of letting him be were so damaging they had to end the anime
>Somehow not a single person in power in GF or TPC were able to stop this dude despite EVERYONE wanting Ash to fuck off one way or another
Just how in the single fuck does this happen.

>>56625588
never heard of overzealous fans of a thing rioting when it doesn't go their way?
It mostly happens in sports but its hardly a far-fetched theory they could have done that if people received it poorly

>>56625630
>>56625786
I know hat but damn, wtf? This only hurts the odds which were already low

>>56625165
>However, as the meeting notes state, the fans have conflated "Pokemon Master" with "becoming Champion", which meant that in Yuyama's mind, Ash is literally not allowed to win a Championship, because then people will think he's a Pokemon Master, when he isn't.
I remember when Ash won the League in the Sun and Moon all the online articles about it said shit like "Ash is finally a Pokemon Master!" so they weren't wrong.

>>56625847
Its their own fault for saying his goal was to be a master but have him focus almost entirely on becoming a champion. People wouldn't consider them the same thing if Ash, say, was also trying to complete the pokedex.

>>56616689
If Pokemon Anime was episodic like Shin Chan & not into character progression, I guess Ash, Misty & Brock will likely have stayed until the end of time.

>>56625516
>At the same time, nerds do not like change and Japanese nerds REALLY don't. Look at Goku, he was clearly meant to pass the torch to Gohan after the Cell Games and Japan was not havin' it.
Goku fucking grew, had kids, had grandchildren, became the world strongest, the universe strongest, the multiverse strongest, surpassed the gods, got successors, trained lots of people, etc.
And when you take non-canon trash like GT you have Goku fucking ascending a higher realm and passing the torch to humanity.
Even for shounen Goku is a fucking crazy character. Look at how in every modern shounen a timeskip is always presented as this amazing crazy big deal thing because two years passed and the MC went from 12 years to 14 and they got a new design.
Meanwhile in Dragon Ball we had years long timeskips like nothing where fucking everyone grew up, got jobs, made families, etc.
Comparing Goku to trAsh is a complete and absolute disservice to Goku.
Besides, that's a myth. We know from Toriyama's mouth that he went back to Goku because Gohan didn't work out as a main character, and he was RIGHT because Gohan has NEVER been a active and leading character, he's always been a reactive one. Meanwhile someone like Goku always moves the story and always moves things forward because of how he is a person. Popularity had nothing to do with it and anyone saying otherwise is just a Gohan self-inserter being butthurt.
> But there'd have been hell. Lose-lose situation.
No there wouldn't have been because if they'd made Ash fuck off early then there would be no expectations for Ash staying. The MC getting changed with each Gen would have become the norm. This is all a self-made problem. All because Yuyama was a fucking autist. And at the end of the day they made Ash fuck-off either way except no one ended up satisfied and it all reeked of damage control and trying to salvage the mess they themselves caused.

>>56625847
At that point it was a self-fulfilling prophecy. Had the writers let Ash become a region champ early, feel self-satisfied for an episode, then have Oak or some other old fart ask him how much he knew about Pokemon in general and get him to reflect on what it means to “be a Master” beyond being recognized as the best local fighter, this could have been avoided. It’s the retard that was enforcing the formula that made “Champ=Master” a real thing, the blame for that belongs nowhere else.

>>56626130
I mean Ash had been saying that becoming a Champion was just one step towards becoming a Pokemon Master since DP

>>56616917
>is that a big HECKIN elephant spinning?!
>pokedex what is what
>that is a donphan you retard you already have one
>thanks pokedex

>>56621484
main character is always either the most popular or one of the most popular regardless of how good a character actually is.

>>56616860
I just can't believe it took so long. I wonder what other problems could be solved by just telling one guy to fuck off

>>56625847
There's no avoiding it. This franchise is competitive by nature. Defeat Gym Leaders. Defeat the Elite 4. Defeat your Rival. Become Pokemon Master.

The original Dragon Ball anime handled this well. Goku didn't win the World Martial Arts Tournament until he was an adult, but every match was a nail-bitter. The Pokemon anime series going on forever and the reasons for Ash losing getting stupider every season made it nearly impossible for fans to continue watching.

>>56625720
>One single autism hellbent on making the anime into an endless series like Doraemon or Sazae-san
I thought this concept was great at first to differentiate itself from the main gen games. It was because the anime added character progression which eventually become harder & harder as years gone by.

I was kind of expecting a chance back in Journeys with a world tour format (adding regions whenever a new gen game is released) to be more episodic in nature. But alas, they went back to character progression around the 2nd half of Journeys which ultimately killed the chances of Ash, Goh & Chloe staying indefinitely, especially when Goh & Chloe aren't tied down to any Gens.

>>56626285
No they're not. A main character ranking 1 in every character poll for nearly 30 years is not the norm. Goku, Ichigo, and Naruto have all lost character polls. Luffy has NEVER lost a character poll. He even won the global poll in 2021 that had 12 million votes.

Also all of the recent major leads have ranked below 1 too. Bakugo was a consistent number 1 throughout BNH, Megumi and Gojo both held the 1 spot, (Deku and Yuji both only ranked 1 in the first poll), Aki and Power ranked 1 in the two CSM polls, Zenitsu was number 1 for KNY, and Noell has beaten Asta several times. Luffy is one of the most popular elements of his series.

Ash is no Luffy though. People don't like Ash and he wore out his welcome 20 years ago.

You people all act so uppity about Pokemon being a kids show but then all you do is watch other kid shows like DB or OP. Have you ever watched anything aimed at an audience older than 12?

>>56624200
Yup. It was obvious in the early portion of Johto when they had boost Falkner by giving him Pidgeot to make the gym battle look credible since Ash had Charizard.

Ash should have beating Gary in Kanto. Rewrite the OI arc to be the E4 challenge. Have Ash win that and then transition him to being a legacy character who shows in sequel series once in a while.

>>56626709
Ash absolutely should no have won in Kanto, he was completely retard who got badges more by luck and good deeds than his actual battle prowess, you'd need to rewrite the season to make a victory actually satisfying. I think doing the league twice, with him being more serious and shaping up the second time around after getting humbled would have perfectly.

>>56626694
>DB or OP
Those ARE shows meant for an older boy audience. They're called Shounen. Pokemon is a kodama. It's meant for kids in the single digits.

>>56616689
>IF TITAN DOESN'T SELL WELL
It's so cute that they don't know their audience will eat up any shit

>>56626825
there were interviews from before Sword and Shield that strongly implied that Gamefreak didn't think audiences really wanted an open Pokemon game like SV.

>>56626390
The concept of an endless anime would actually work if it were about Main Character-kun and Main Character-chan with Pikachurino and Charizardino as their only Pokemon who are Pokemon researchers or explorers or something who travel all over the world meeting new people and meeting new Pokemon.
But the Pokemon anime was never that. It was never going to work out no matter how much they resetted Ash nor how much they tried to turn things episodic. The balloon was gonna explode on their faces someday. And it did.

>I was kind of expecting a chance back in Journeys with a world tour format (adding regions whenever a new gen game is released) to be more episodic in nature.
They straight-up say that the SM anime was an experiment on trying to make an on-progression series just for them to realize it failed which is why they brought in the league and stuff.
Journeys was just them doubling down on that and realizing it failed again. We know they literally had no plans for Go which is why they asspulled Project Mew. And since they did the Alola League because the experiment was failing the logical assumption is that they did the PWC and M8 crap as damage control from that too.
The fallout from the Kalos Disaster unironically killed the anime. And the worst part is that the cunt of Yuyama still didn't learn and still wanted Ash to lose even the fucking meme league that was the Alola one. Dude's fucking insane.

>>56627382
I was one of them, I'm still one of them
I would prefer a more curated experience with routes and places you visit in chronological order

>>56627382
I think an open world progression path Pokemon region is more than possible and I've even drafted a system for one for a tabletop RPG campaign, but I think GameFreak's apprehension is poisoning their ability to execute.
Seems like they have a really bad problem with self-fulfilling prophecies, and with how spineless some of the leaders are, they're never going to get anywhere without being willing to take risks at full tilt.

>>56627384
>>56627384
The xyfags think it was kalos when Minima mentioned the plan that he would win the league more than 20 years ago and if you know and if you know that slife or life are usually more episodic than linear, not delayed

>>56627517
They said that they realized that they should not be so deferential to Yuyama when the autist went NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HE HAS TO LOSE THE ALOLA LEAGUE during SM production.
Tell me, what event in specific could be the reason why they realized that they shouldn't listen to the senile cunt anymore after twenty fucking years of being mindless yesmen?

>>56627384
>the Kalos Disaster

The best part about this is that it wasn't even about Kalos. The embers had been smoldering for ages, caught wind in Sinnoh, and after the slog that was B/W caught fire in Kalos because the writing was on the wall.

This was a progression happening in real time and not a damn thing was done to stop it.

How many anime decision details are there? I wanna know if there's anything about those cancelled Team Plasma episodes.

>>56627582
Kalos was the last release valve, after they failed to open it the whole thing exploded
The burasto barn heard around the world

>>56627384
I'm glad he got completely sidetracked by the time of Journeys (disregarding whether people like/hate that entire series).

>>56627722
It wasn't, presumably he never tried to win and according to the leak, only SM Tomiyasu put on pants

>>56627582
To be fair, at the time you could've just called Sinnoh and BW bumps on the road if Kalos paid out like it was leading to.
Then Ash basically chokes because the plot tells him to. Actual jobbing in its purest form.

>>56627815
>sidetracked
Not sidetracked. I mean more-or-less sidelined.

>>56627832
but kalos never was or did anything possibly it was just many regions he would lose there was never a plan or leak or anything indicates we just know tomiyasu put on pants they decided he would win there

>>56627832
That's exactly why Kalos was the straw that broke the camel's back.
After Tobias and after BW Kalos actually gave hope people that this time would be the one. And it was not. And unlike Tobias who was a literal walking asspull to cockblock Ash and BW where no one had any hopes for anything in Kalos everything under a sensible lens was leading up to the victory. Some people try to cope by saying "A-A-lan was just a little bit stronger it makes sense that Ash would lose the powerlevels were very close it could have gone either way" don't realize that with that very same argument they're arguing for Ash's victory also being a very feasible and logical result. And even so those people are only looking at the battle on a vacuum, they're not looking at XY as a whole in a narrative sense.

>>56627815
Gou was an awful mistake, the league was awful but the entire thing was a mercy kill at that point
>>56627821
Glad to hear that, after the whole thing I learnt to have a bit of appreciation for SM, not what I wanted but it was enjoyable enough

>>56627882
>>56627821
Holy ESL

>>56627908
What narrative sense xyz barely had one, there is no plan here, there was no plan other than your mental straw

>>56627950
Okay ESL

>>56617039
More like after the Orange League
In Johto we could have followed the adventures of Ethan and his dad, Typhlosion.

>>56627958
I try to argue, not what is said, it's not evidence, if nothing else, I wanted to win but it wasn't

>>56619540
Why would a retarded nigga with a fucking Pikachu win every major tournament around?
Making him lose six times in a row was a big overboard but so would be having him win more than once or twice...
The pokemon league ain't your local school's tournament.

>>56628024
Please stop posting. You're writing gibberish.

>>56627475
I just don't think Gamefreak knows what its core audience wants in general and it poisons their ability to make a good game. They need to stop worrying about smartphones taking kids away and just fill the games with fun side content. Even if 3 out of every 10 players engage in it, that side-content becomes the building block of why the game is discussed years later.

>>56616849
>Imagine doing Naruto without Naruto

Noruto

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The most insane gaslight of this anime was the filler allowing Ash to win to make it seem like he wasn't a complete fucking jobber. Orange Islands and Battle Frontier made the Kanto/Johto/Hoenn losses feel not so bad while the Sinnoh loss was a literal middle finger and then he would proceed to lose two more times in a row. By that point it was too much and Ash went from a character that was reasonably competent to one that was tremendously worthless and actively held the anime back from being an advertisement because kids wouldn't want to be associated with such a massive embarrassment

The anime stopped feeling sequential too when they stopped promoting new Generation Pokemon at the end of the previous Season. He should've won Sinnoh at the very latest and any further Season was pure incompetence that would make Toei blush

>>56627815
Too little, too late.
He poisoned the well for two decades. You could even argue that his influence is why Liko's anime has decided to become so plot-heavy and progression-based in return doing all it can to differentiate itself from the Ashnime.

>>56628125
Better late than never. At the least, Yayama can't stop denying Ash's status (disregarding what people think about the battles).

Also, I can't help but figure out the implications on what Game Freak thinks about the HZ anime. Surprised that they don't like it, even after Ep 9...

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>>56616712
If you ran into this shmuck and said, "yes I look like this or imagine looking like this" you have bigger issues than being a man-child

>>56625165
In the end the way the SuMo championship played out, Yuyama still kind of had the last laugh, the way things played out between SuMo's anime prototyping the Pokemon school shit and kind of gutting a lot of the feel of the journey as a real thing and not kids playing around, and the fact that the Alolan League basically didn't exist as such it came off as..."Less real"? "Illegitimate" is too strong, but you had a lot of people expressing that they finally got the win but it felt like winning the fucking little league baseball championship, not the Olympics tier victory it was always presented as before.

>>56616849
>Imagine doing Fate without Artoria
Fuck off, Takeuchi,

Ok... real thought: what's the chances that Yayama purposely sabotaged JN's entire schtik and the battles of both SM and JN because Ash can no longer be a newbie 10 year old kid?

>>56628313
eh no the guides literally states how ash was leagues stronger before and that he would basically manage to win previous leagues in any case it means that what they had a match with ash was harder than the previous league participants in sm there was still adventure and the previous season was only forest
There are some criticisms that really have validity.

>>56628433
I already told you to stop posting, ESL-kun.

>>56628484
you literally guide her>your word idiot

>>56628223
I mean I can't blame them, it's pretty bland at best, and there's a reason nobody fucking cares, it has none of the actual charm of Pokemon because dumbing down the league journey from this grand "Make your own future" adventure to basically a school summer scavenger hunt kills the entire fantasy of it. Sun and Moon got away with kind of de-emphasizing that part of the plot in the games by being fairly solid entries in almost every regard, but it was pretty heavily lambasted in the anime even if it got drowned out by the complaints about Ash reaching for early Unova levels of retard and the ugly artstyle change.

It was a pretty common complaint about SwSh's plot as well, just overshadowed by, again, the fuckload of other problems those games had. It's only after the fanboy gush and the glitz of Scarlet/Violet wore off that the fact that this has happened three times in a row and sucked every time got a serious examination, and even then it's still sharing space with ScVi's laundry list of other more obvious to even a retard problems like the brainfuck stupid optimization and the lack there of or the fake towns/cities compared to past entries, so even signal boosted by the "Hey this is pretty fucking bad writing you just chopped a pokemon plot into thirds and called them their own "main plot" but there's now like no substance outside of the last like 30~ minutes." shit it hasn't gotten as much focus as it probably should.

The structure of the plot and the core progression and identity were never the problem but Gamefreak seems to have just not fucking understood that. And that's before you get into things like "We haven't gotten a rival other than like Bede since Gen4 who seems to legitimate want to compete with you and makes you want to beat them and Bede being a godfuck awful little disgrace of an asshole you hate seems to have been unintentional.".

>>56616860
Why the fuck did he think everybody wanted to keep watching Ash and seeing him lose all the time?

>>56628526
B-But swooshie had the best league journey! Muh sports! LEON! CHARIZARDINO! K-K-KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

>>56628514
NTA but you know those guides are non-canon scams for retarded children right?

They almost fucking always are. Oda is one of the only creators who actually makes guidebooks/supplementary materials like that with actual weight. Everyone else just gives like a five minute interview and a sketch or two to some interns who make up whatever the fuck they want or recycle some production notes.

The pokemon guide books are just a grift for collectors, they aren't worth anything. It'd be like claiming the Daizenshuus in DB have weight, and nobody other than the most calcified and groggy collectors and faggots thinks that, because it'd be retarded.

>>56628569
Needing a fucking sponsorship to go on the league journey when it's a coming of age tradition AND a fucking open application competitive sporting event is fucking retarded and most of SwSh's characters look like shit outside of a few of the girls. Leon's a dull faggot who dresses like a clown and he's not even the stupidest member of the league because I legitimately thought Piers was a fucking Mr.Mime-esque human-like pokemon at first glance. And he's not even the gym leader with a ditto pretending to be a potato in a sunhat for a head.

>>56628579
They gave him permission, they are canon and again official, no matter how much he tries to say, they are not canon that ash can win previous leagues with his team sm if not sm ash>>>ash from other regions ihnala copium but that guide is canon

>>56628671
You can't even write properly you can't even read the guidebooks you're slurping either anyway. Shut up already you fucking pajeet.

>>56628642
I know, anon. I very much agree with you.

>>56628671
Come again? I got a fucking stroke trying to understand

>>56628692
>>56628706
Shit so the guides made by those who make anime are wrong and not canon because some guy on 4chan says they're not canon because he's got balls, what stupid logic is that?

>>56628761
Yeah bro and GT is canon and Vegito powerlevel is 50000000000000000000.

>>56628778
So some argument with value and if Toriyama put it with the rest of the chronology

>>56628823
>More ESL babble

>>56628829
and if you know Japanese it doesn't even matter much what is canon or not because of its balls the pokemon guides are

>>56628846
>More ESL babble
Learn English first before asking someone if they know Japanese, Pajeet-kun.

>>56628869
And I suppose you don't have any arguments to say they are not canon

>>56628903
I don't understand your ESL babble, try again.

Will you two just fuck already?

>>56628923
>>56628923
what will sending to your friend xyfags do

>>56628846

Bro just stop

>>56629053
What a thing to use guides that are official anime because one retarded people think it is not canon

>>56623257
>greed
More like he couldn't have stopped it even if he wanted. Pokemon's ownership being split among three companies means any one can't block a decision. Nintendo and Creatures were certainly more concerned with profit and sustainability than anything philosophical.

That said, it's long been speculated that Tajiri didn't quit because of illness or other work during GS and that he was basically forced out as director after the many delays and being less willing to compromise than Masuda.

The anime should have ended at DP.

Ash wins the league.
beats Cynthia
Dawn goes back to kanto with him.

Given what we know its likely that this was planned at some point.
Cynthia was built up so much even in JN
and Dawn was the only one to show up for him.

>>56616712
yes, the faggot died in the eyes of everyone the moment he jobbed to richie

>>56629974
At that point it feels like they had planned to drop Ash every fucking season but this boomer asshole was like
>just one more bro

>>56616689
DP got more popular than expected

>>56618919
Yup. People saying Ash should have retired in DP or XY are just saying that because those are their favorite series. Ishihara is right, Johto was the time to move on, especially since Gen 3 was disconnected from Gen 1 and 2.

>>56629974
The DP anime kept showing Cynthia and the E4 all the time and you had Cynthia always going about how Ash and Paul would go onto the Champion League and what-not. You really can tell they were trying to build-up towards something back then.

>Cynthia was built up so much even in JN
I honestly would be willing to put money that if they hadn't already compromised on Leon being the final boss early of Journeys they'd have made her the final boss. That and Gen 8 shilling quota too though that's maybe more on the Charizardino shilling quota.
There's a reason why she was the only other M8 character to appear, was made the 2nd place, was the only one to beat the rat and only other Champion with a second gimmick meaning neither she or Ash fought at full strength giving a d-doesn't count argument some force.

>>56630745
The 10 years comment fits with DP. And XY fits in how they tried to do things during SM and then Journeys. All three interpretations are valid.

>>56619540
my wife

>>56625588
>we will never live in the universe where some ash schizo burned down the OLM headquarters after DP and resulted in omega SHUT IT DOWN rebooting for BW
Sad, really.

>>56625720
>Somehow not a single person in power in GF or TPC were able to stop this dude despite EVERYONE wanting Ash to fuck off one way or another
Seniority in Japan is mega business anon, if you are a zoom-zoom you don't know this but Final Fantasy Spirits Within got green-lighted specifically because the creator of FF wanted it despite what a terrible film it turned out to be for fans and normalfags.

Even now, I guarantee you the fact pokemon games being so shit is because of some autist in charge obsessing over muh 1998 quality instead of making a better game with a better maintained team.

>>56631123
The 10 years comment fits Unova since the meeting was in 2022. DP ended in 2010.

>>56627384
>SM was Denial
>SM league was Anger
>Journeys was Bargaining
>M8/Project Mew was Depression*
>2BaPM was Acceptance
It even makes sense, wow.

*Remember how the employees was being worked like hell during that time of the Coof? I recall it in the /padt/ threads from glass door or personal accounts explaining their tiredness

>>56631105
She appeared the most because DP had remakes during Journeys, same reason Dawn appeared a lot. This isn’t difficult to understand.

>>56623353
>The Kalos movies were at least better
Oh fuck off. The Unova ones are some of the worst movies in the franchise buts better to be bad than fucking boring. I cannot for the life of me remember anything from any of the Kalos movies while I could go all day picking apart the pros and cons of the Unova movies (there are zero pros in the Keldeo movie)

>>56625588
Shouldn't this be like publically adressed? I mean, having or receiving death threats over a kids show is a pretty damaging part for a IP, them trusting the viewerbase to something so drastic speaks volumes of the shit that ISN'T mentioned.

>>56620349
Yes anime unova was shit but kalos was pure kino. Alola was alright

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>>56631203
>Instead for some fucking reason they took the earthquakes as a sign to make Ash even fucking stupider and keep him around for XY after making the colossal mistake to have him job in Sinnoh

>>56631385
This was in 2022, and the KyoAni fire was in 2019 and was still getting court coverage at the time. It was pretty fresh, so it's reasonable for Ohmori to jump straight to that as an example of "bad shit that might happen if fans get riled up enough".
I think it's important that the devs and writers understand and respect the stakes of fucking around with a global IP. It's not just the money loss or the trust in the fanbase. Sometimes you incite a complete nutjob to take some drastic action. I'd rather the nutjobs just take a long walk off a short pier, but they're a fact of the business, and an IP like Pokemon is too big to be able to avoid them. If you can't avoid a problem, you'd better learn to solve it.

>>56631434
>Ohmori
Sorry, meant Sugimori. It's 5 AM here.

>>56629974
>Ash wins the Sinnoh League
>Dawn goes back to kanto with him.
Based
Ash x Dawn
Kino

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>>56626373
>The Pokemon anime series going on forever and the reasons for Ash losing getting stupider every season made it nearly impossible for fans to continue watching.
I wouldn't say he was getting stupider every season, its more that he was becoming inconsistent as fuck as a character. There are times where he does things and shows growth from mistakes made in past series but there are also pants on the head retarded moments that make you wonder if the writers even touched anything relating to the animes past. You means Dragon Ball so lets use Goku as an example. Goku was allowed to grow becoming stronger and inevitably becoming battle junky warrior we know today. We were with him through out that adventure and watched him grow. Meanwhile Ash was stuck in this weird loop where yeah, we watched him grow kinda and he won sorta but when it was time to end all that growth kinda felt like a bit of a shrug, see ya next adventure. The finale was like if GT ended without Gokus emotional goodbyes to everyone that played their part not just in his life but in his growth and accepting what''s to come.

>>56631252
There's no way in hell Yuyama had more seniority than Masuda, Ishihara or even Sugimori.
Honestly, it's far more likely that people simply didn't think it was that big of a deal. It was just a suggestion, if it happened cool if it not then cool also. No one expected the balloon to someday grow until it exploded on everyone's faces like this.

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>>56631513
Ignoring GT since it's Toei fanfiction (same with Super), the reason Goku felt consistent is because it was consistently written by one man. Having a consistent head writer be the one to drive the plot will make for usually a more consistent experience. But the anime ran for so long it likely changed writers so many times a lot of them would just say "fuck it" and do what the guy in charge wanted

>>56631527
They don't work on the anime, Anon. The staff would have complete control over their OCs since it's their creation even if the GF dev team are the ones that made the IP. TPC are shown to be incompetent, so not pressuring them to end Ash during a high bit everyone in the ass and called them a Slowbro

>>56631359
Perhaps. But the signs of some self-awareness are undeniable, they didn't just do shit at random.
They made Steven third place for a reason.
They made Diantha and Lance be the sacrifices, instead of the more popular Champions, to Leon for a reason.
They also made Alan be another sacrifice for Leon for a reason.
As retarded as they were with the M8 they weren't utterly and completely retarded.

>>56631513
>I wouldn't say he was getting stupider every season, its more that he was becoming inconsistent as fuck as a character.
Why not both?

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>keep Ash losing the Kanto league, that was kino
>keep the Orange Islands, it was unavoidable since Game Freak was taking too long to make Gold/Silver
>have Ash beat Gary in the Johto League finals and maybe do an Elite Four arc
>switch to a new protagonist for Hoenn, or hell do a timeskip and make Ash the new "Brock"
Would it really have been that hard?

>>56631600
It was for Yuyama.
The man probably had some delusion that if he kept the Pokemon anime eternal like that he would be elevated to some beloved figure like Doraemon's creator or something.

>>56631600
I'd say Sinnoh was the perfect time, all the movies and side material leading to it was just perfect
People say the 3rd movie is perfect, and they are right, that doesn't mean the advance era movies aren't as enjoyable

If things ended in Johto we would have miss a lot of fun

>>56631513
It felt like they wanted to dial him back to his gen 1 personallity in the later years, but didn't really seem to understand what made him work back then. Show lacked the teeth it used to have, so a dumber Ash didn't work without all the slapstick, banter and supporting characters that didn't put him in his place.
But yeah, hopping from gen 4, to 5, to 6, to 7 is absolutely jarring as fuck because of the wildly inconsistent characterization.

>>56628255
kek

>>56616689
Anime would have been better if Ash won Johto and was replaced by the male and female protags of each subsequent gen, and only showed up on occasion. Like AG was Brendan, May, and Max. Then when they got to FRLG, Ash would show up for an arc or two. DP started with Lucas, Dawn, and Barry, then Ash showed up for the HGSS arc, and so on. Would have had the anime be interesting for longer.

>>56616689
>strained relations with Rica Matsumoto and Ikue Ohtani
This is news to me, was this publicly known before? Is this why Pikachu’s anime cry was reverted to the old game one in PLA and SV?

>>56617039
Battle Frontier really.
>acepts Scott's offer
>gets to build a facility in a plot of land near Oak's ranch or even a giant aircraft/moving facility if he wants to travel
>still gets to be close to his mother et al
>could be able to mentor Max or at least check up on him as well as May's travels in Johto
>The last filler ep of AG was setting up Brock wanting to become a doctor during DP. Brock probably would have begun his studies earlier.

>>56633148
Matsumoto apparently has a loose temper and was known to shout at her colleagues across other anime. There was personal issues between the two and that's all we know.

They also refer to a "scandal" (likely the covid expenses slander) and fear that another scandal might have a public reach and affect the brand via association with Matsumoto. In another one they fear that the feud may escalate.

>>56633187
The problem with the BF is the same as that the Orange League even if the BF is a canon thing and not an anime fanfic: It's still not a real League win so it >doesn't count. And when you get to it, it feels like they made Ash do the BF so that it felt like he accomplished "something" while keeping the true goal still cucked and out of reach, not exactly damage control, but more like a make-up prize.

So is Yuyama the ultimate Ash self-inserter?
He wanted Ash to stay forever, however, unlike the average Ash self-inserter he didn't care about him winning and if anything wanting him to remain a loser forever, he was not your average power fantasy for him like that of the average Ash self-inserter.

>>56634258
>unlike the average Ash self-inserter he didn't care about him winning
Right, except when actually defending the show.

>>56631600
For me, this image proves that Ash had a good progression as a character and trainer in the anime.

>>56616689
It's insane to me that they didn't go the adventures route and just use the new game's protag for each new series. Like.. duh. Ash can always come back as a side character as well.

>>56634541
Watch another piece of media first.

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>>56634541
Can you really call it "good" if it took six prior losses over the course of several decades for him to finally win a league?
Even Goku won the World Tournament on his third try.

>>56616849
Impossible, done and everyone hates it, proven to be very possible, I'll do it till the end of time.

>>56634813
>Can you really call it "good" if it took six prior losses over the course of several decades for him to finally win a league?
ashfags haven't seen any piece of media other than the ashnime so they think its good regardless.

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>>56634862
it doesn't even make sense because the anime reset Ash's competence several times, like in Unova

>>56616689
Tajiri's original vision for the series ended in gen 2. It would have made perfect sense to retire Ash/Satoshi then since they clearly took the entire franchise in a different direction after that point. Ash just abandoning all his old Pokemon when he travels to a new region was also stupid. Although I guess once they kept him around for Hoenn and Sinnoh, it became harder to drop him. And since they wanted to keep him as the protagonist, it meant they couldn't let him win anything until the very end. Maybe they also saw the drop in interest in other series that replaced the original main character (e.g. Yugioh) and were worried that interest in Pokemon would also drop if they replaced Ash.

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>>56618336
YOU TAKE THAT BACK ABOUT LUFFY!!!

>>56616689
Would've been the right time. I remember still liking Ash but was hoping they'd showcase May as the new protag since it was the first generation that allowed you to play as a girl from the beginning. Not even for coomer reasons, I just thought it'd be neat to see how different a trainer she would be compared to dumb as rocks Ash after all those years.

>>56619540
>>56621160
>>56626773
>>56628313
I for one liked the idea that the league was a major tournament full of powerful trainers Ash had never met before and who were as good or better than him.
It made him and his journey more grounded, like we simply focused on a random dude who's part of a bigger picture.
Like, tons of trainers collect badges in a region, we only follow one of them and at the end they all meet in a grand touranement and the one we followed ain't no chosen one, he'll win some and lose some.

The bullshit Alola and Galar tournaments felt much less real on that regard.
They felt like some artificial shit that revolves around Ash.

>>56619093
>after GS.
He quit midway through GS development

>>56616689
Ash should've been retired after Johto.

>>56634940
>it doesn't even make sense
Ashfags never cared about that.

>>56635906
>The bullshit Alola and Galar tournaments felt much less real on that regard.
>They felt like some artificial shit that revolves around Ash.

They were. The Alola league didn't even exist until later into SM and they nerfed the champions to allow Ash to compete with them even though nothing in the previous series suggested he was on their levels.

>>56634541
The last 2 were only done because of backlash so no not at all

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>Wanted to change the voice actors of Ash and Pikachu due to strained relations.
I wonder what problems were going on. Reminds me of the Mario situation, there was almost certainly intense drama behind dropping Martinet
Is it just that they were such important voice actors that they wanted more money?

>>56631513
Would Pokemon have been better off if Ash aged?

>>56616689
>Ishihara being based
Incredibly rare occurence.

>>56636404
Yeah
Best case scenario would be we get a new character each seasons but previous ones make some cameo.
Like, imagine in Hoenne we're following the gen 3 character (male or female, it could alternate with different generations) and then in the league, a slightly aged up (but noticeably more mature and experienced) Ash crushes the protag in quarter finals or some shit.

>>56616849
Do you mean Altria?

>>56631527
These documents make it clear the anime staff have more independence than it seems. Even on this meeting, the whole tone is "how dare you have decided to remove Ash", not "walk back removing Ash". They hate that the decision was made, they berate the poor guy over and over because of it, but never try to backtrack it, because the anime staff has authority over the anime.

>>56636238
Ash's VA did tax fraud and was reported to abuse and berate other colleagues using the Satoshi voice. From how they talk about it, Pikachu's VA especially seemed to hate her.

>>56636885
>Ash's VA did tax fraud and was reported to abuse and berate other colleagues using the Satoshi voice.

Holy based

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>>56636404
>Would Pokemon have been better off if Ash aged?
Yes

crazy that they are concerned with the risk of arson and thats part of their decision making process
if i was put in charge of pokemon, i would make changes that would piss people off and i would probably get stabbed by an otaku in tokyo

>>56625165
>>56625847
He didn't help the matter by making Ash lose those tournaments constantly and making it look like the endgame. At the very least, they could have taken a shounen approach with Ash. Him winning a championship obviously didn't mean he was the best trainer in the world.

>>56631600
God fucking damn that alola design is fucking abysmal. Its like a jumpscare.

>>56637642
Even the Gen 8 one looks like shit
Obviously coming from Gen 7 it's an improvement, but compared to anything before Gen 7 it looks pretty bad

>>56631600
Hot take but nighttime league final rounds > daytime league final rounds

>>56627384
>And the worst part is that the cunt of Yuyama still didn't learn and still wanted Ash to lose even the fucking meme league that was the Alola one. Dude's fucking insane.
I imagine he has his head up his ass as an elder in a high position. People in Japan rarely tend to confront them, giving them some kind of egomaniac complex where they project their personal philosophy into the product as if it was their personal playground.

>>56637952
This is literally something pointed in the meeting transcript, the guy getting shouted at goes "Yuyama-san is a senior so people are too afraid to give him feedback"

>>56616689
That's a good question, Hoenn and Sinnoh were great places to end everything off for Ash but we just had to march to BW and XY/Z

>>56616849
Imagine doing HxH without G- oh.

>>56634541
You mean could have. In the end it was artificial and his victories mainly warranted a "It's about time" reaction.

>>56618336
>not Uchiha autism

>>56633596
>Orange League is not a real league
It is in my mind.

>>56636106
How they weakened him, Cynthia was pathetic with the trio of onis from Unova and Leon, hardly any damage Eternatux Lance almost came out with the fat whale, Ash One Shot, at something of a level, Solgaleo and Gladion, he trusts in stopping Necrozma, better shut up, and you don't know, power scaling.

>>56638434
What the fuck is this ESL schizo babble.

>>56637699
>>56637642
I genuinely despise the gen8 design, Alola at least is intentionally goofy, Journey Ash's eyes and hair are so far removed from his original design it becomes uncanny. It's like they turned him into some kind of hispanic mystery meat mutt

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>>56627567
>Tell me, what event in specific could be the reason why they realized that they shouldn't listen to the senile cunt anymore after twenty fucking years of being mindless yesmen?
Clearly the Kalos backlash. You can't keep pretending everything's fine when the entire world is shitting on your outcome. TV Tokyo even ended up making the video private.

>>56616689
> Still hung up on the fake leak

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>>56637642
Now imagine what was it like was back then when XY was still airing, the Kalos Disaster still fresh in people's minds, and they dropped this abomination.

>>56638492
I fucking hate the shorts myself.

>>56634940
And people massively shit on the show for making him lose against a lvl 5 snivy who's never battled before

>>56637642
>>56638764
Steven Universe looking ass.

>>56636839
To me it seems like they were working on a good idea back then of trying to make an infinite anime, but the writing ended up being done in a way a precure formula of new characters every season would have worked better, but that formula didn't exist back when they started

>>56638764
It was worth it for Mallow

>>56637699
The worst part is that the Gen 8 look is the one we got as a permanent look for Ash in stuff like Masters. Not any of the good ones, the second worst one.

>>56638485
that you should let us talk about power scaling or what league or stronger or weaker if you don't know shit power scaling

>>56616689
What is code name Titan?

>>56639058
Gen 8, Scarlet and Violet

>>56639034
>Powerscaling ESL SEAmonkey schizo.
Kill yourself.

>>56638764
>we want the Yokai Watch audience

>>56638434
In English, pedro

>>56631684
Gen4 in the games is also probably the peak of "A Pokemon Game" in regards to overall quality and execution with Platinum. It's just the core plot taken to its logical extreme, as big as it can get, with the advantage of at least some effort in making characters matter and have a bit of agency. Barry, Cynthia, Looker, and the various Galactic Admins feel a bit more like characters with at least some kind of agency and personality moving them through the plot which wasn';t much of a *thing* prior to that outside of like, Silver, Wally kinda, and the Gen3 side games like Colosseum/XD.

You end up with a very "core identity" experience that's not as polished or as well made as it *could* be but it's the best in that regard we ever really got. So it's kinda fitting that the anime would also kinda end things there.

>>56638485
There's been this ESL faggot who was seemingly designed in a government lab to always either be wrong or express an opinion in a way that it ends up wrong anyway wandering around and shitting up threads at random lately. Just ignore him is my advice.

>>56638740
Wrong leak retard

>>56631600
Ash becoming the new Brock would’ve went hard. And they could’ve kept doing it too, where the new protag also becomes a companion to a later new protag or at least reoccurring.
Then everyone flips their shit when all the older ones appear during special events decades later, like everyone did to Red and Blue/Green in Gen 7

Matsumoto officially denied the leak.
https://www.cbr.com/pokemon-ash-ketchum-pikachu-fight-game-freak-leak-deny/

>>56642088
A sempai denying they've abused a kohai in the Japanese entertainment industry has the exact same vibe as an American company saying "We investigated ourselves and found no evidence of wrongdoing". You should treat it as such.
It is possible that the "tensions" mentioned in the meeting notes are being overblown, but it is equally likely that Matsumoto has caused tension with Otani in the past, even accidentally.

>>56642222
>https://www.cbr.com/pokemon-ash-ketchum-pikachu-fight-game-freak-leak-deny/

Shitton of people say the links contains common LLM phrases in japanese (before translation), you can definitely expect there to be files inserted by the leaker.

>>56642395
I'm not really one to blindly believe the leaks, either, but if you were going to slander Matsumoto in a leak, there's easier ways to do it. The drama is entirely rooted in a single line in a single document that merely states there's some degree of tension involving both Matsumoto and Otani.
For all we know, it was a joke or misunderstanding on the meeting participants' part. We really just don't know, and harassing people on Twitter over it is pretty useless. This shit was at least 2 years ago at this point.

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>>56638764
Getting the GT writer for this was a recipe for a disaster.

>>56616689
>Incidents of arson
Lmao

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>>56639211
That is unironically what Gamefreak had in mind with Sun & Moon in general

>>56616712
Our?

>>56643635
I'll give you the rest because I legitimately just don't know shit about Yokai Watch, but
>Map on bottom screen
>QR codes
>Somehow copying YW
Come the fuck on, bro.

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>>56633596
>it feels like they made Ash do the BF so that it felt like he accomplished "something" while keeping the true goal still cucked and out of reach
Aren't Frontier brains supposed to be a bigger deal and harder than gym leaders and elite four?

>>56616849
>Imagine doing Fate without Artoria
>He doesn't know
Oh nonononononono

>>56636751
Hi Nasu, didn't knew you lurked here

>>56644444

>>56644402
Came here to post this.
There's more Fate without OG Seibah than with her at this point. Even if you exclude FGO, she only has token appearances in the Fate/Extra timeline of games, she doesn't appear in Apocrypha, she's not in Waver Case Files outside of some of Waver's PTSD flashbacks, and her only other canon appearance of note is in Fate/Zero.