If pokemon wasn't a kids game and you could design it to actually be engaging in difficulty, would you get rid off gyms using only 1 type?
>>56631553Have them have at least 1 type or move that can counter a weakness. I think scarlet did that.
>>56631553Pokémon Colosseum was a kids game and their boss battles weren’t designed around a specific type (except Miror B).
>>56631553This already exists and it's called Shin Megami Tensei.
>>56631553No, but I would allow them to feature pokemon not of that type. I think having a type the leader emphasizes but doesn't strictly use is the best middle ground.
>>56631553No, but I would allow them to have EVs and for you to battle them 3v3 or 4v4 to be more fun and engaging, the 8th badge would be your first boss battle as a 6v6 and a sendoff to the leagueA common complaint is that the games never train you for online battles, if you made it more dynamic with some fun rules gyms would be a lot more fun
>>56631599I would group them up and have some sort of gimmick like ground steel rock with sand and water grass with rain and psychic ghost dark with trick room etc.
>>56631553I'd keep the one type rule but each gym leader would have a synergy or gimmickmore held items and some EVs, ex.>Ground-type gym leader abuses Sandstorm plus Sandstorm abilities, you can cheese it if you use your own weather>Poison-type gym leader twin who use Poison Gas and Venoshock, you can cheese it with Earthquake or Steel-types
>>56631553monotype gyms isn't the problem, the problem is their genuinely dogshit moveset and their often extremely questionable pokemon choicerecent generations have been better about it but seriously having 2 mons in the starter gym (guarenteed geodude if it's rock type) is bull.>muh kids gamefuck off, kids games are hard as shit, most old nintendo games were harder than 90% of le hardcore adult games coming out today
>>56631553No, that's good game design. If I wanted to force difficulty in Pokemon (I don't) I would just levelmatch the gym Pokemon.
>>56631553No
>>56631553Can you people not enjoy shit without muh difficulty?
You gotta have a theme to go with your gym. Otherwise I'd just go to battle tower
>>56631553Id copy and paste smogon meta teams and items for each gym, and make all of the leaders refuse to fight you if you don't enter the gym with the exact team they want you to compete with
>>56631838>45 year old anon whoops and cheers as he races the beads across the wire
>>56631838Can you infants not enjoy shit without it being mash A to win?
Pokemon games are a power fantasy. In every game, you're basically a genius prodigy who virtually never loses. You overcome trainer after trainer with ease, there's no hardship or struggle. Nobody is truly a rival to you. You just WIN and win so hard that you beat everybody with a near 100% win-rate, taking down criminal gangs, catching legendaries, and becoming the region Champion. All of that is implied just from what you accomplish, but they treat you like an unheard of genius at the start of Pokemon Legends. "HOLY SHIT, THIS GUY CAN CATCH POKEMON? NOBODY HAS EVER DONE THAT BEFORE!" In reality, you and I are of average intellect, but when you're placed in a world of inept morons, all of a sudden you're in the top percentile of IQ. That's what they aim for in video games. Like, the Genome Soldiers in Metal Gear Solid are supposed to be the highest class military on the planet, they had their genes augmented to be the best, but they seem like idiots because they want you to feel like Solid Snake is that much more badass than them.It is possible to make a hard Pokemon game that is grounded in reality, but have fun with that ~50% win rate (at best). Maybe you'll have a 70% win rate if you're really really good at pokemon, but genius prodigies aren't real. Magnus Carlsen loses at Chess sometimes.
>>56631553Point of gyms is showing off the strengths of the type and making players show they can deal with them.If you remove type based gyms, what's the point of even having gyms?
>>56631553No, they would just have secondary types to counter their weaknesses.
>>56631874unironically yesyou've been trained by society into wanting "challenge" in order to be a good worker beeenjoy the small shit in life
>>56631923>Point of gyms is showing off the strengths of the typeand yet they end up only serving to show the type's weaknesses
>>56631900> Pokemon games are a power fantasy. In every game, you're basically a genius prodigy who virtually never losesI don’t know when it was but after a few Gens I assumed that the Leaders adjust the Pokemon they use based on the number of badges you carry.The same way that a professor doesn’t want you to fail a test but wants to give you the appropriate challenge for your level. Basically holding back the first time you battle them
>>56631553The 8 gyms should be seen as an extended tutorial, teaching you the ins and outs of every mechanic the game has to offerThe Elite 4 and Champion should serve as your final exams, before the game opens up to battle facilities that expects you to know the ins and outs of all aspects of battles, aka the REAL game beginsI don't know if I'd remove the monotype theming of each gym, but I think each one should have a mechanical focus primarily Let's say, in no particular order, each gym would focus on Abilities, Weather, Terrain, Status, Buffs/Debuffs, Switching(?), Type Advantage/STABsThats at least 7 gyms, and as an example, let's say the first gym taught the concept of basic RPS style combat, and the leader had something neat like Protean/Libero Sprigatito, Scorbunny, or Fraokie as Ace depending on your starter to really play with the idea of types and keep you on your toes as the final test of the gym
>>56632007I believe that is the case, yes, but we shouldn't be winning as hard as we do if they really wanted it to be grounded. You learn more from defeat than you do from winning, so they should be clobbering you so you learn things the hard way.
>>56632006That's also the point. For the player to know the strengths and weaknesses of a given type and learn from it
>>56632007Their rematches are on par with the champion, so that's probably how it isit's pretty hard to believe that the 1st badge gym leader gets swept by any random hiker around the 4th gym city after all
>>56632007>>56632073Pokemon Origins dropped in 2013, and shows exactly that, so maybe that's where you got the idea
>>56632006That's only true for people like us who already know the weakness so we know to just hit the rocks with water gun or whatever asapany actual newfag will get checked hard if all they do is tackle or wing attack geodude with his like 100 base defense
>>56631963>he doesn't enjoy overcoming challengesngmi
>>56632093I don't need to make it.
>>56632092Now they highlight what move to use so that doesn't matter either
>>56632091No, a lot of people had that idea before origins came out. hence why it was cool to see it
>>56631553Difficulty romhacks keep monotype gyms and are still challenging.
>>56632092>any actual newfagthere's no such thing as "actual newfags" with pokemon, unless your argument applies to someone so acutely retarded they struggle with concepts such as "water puts out fires" or "bugs eat leaves">>56632076boss fights shouldn't be tutorials, they should be tests
They don't need to make them particularly harder but there's so much potential in making gym or gym-equivalent teams around themes, or a classification, or focused on a stat... they started experimenting with tera types but they didn't go far enough.
>>56632176>there's no such thing as "actual newfags" with pokemon, unless your argument applies to someone so acutely retarded they struggle with concepts such as "water puts out fires" or "bugs eat leaves"Water/fire/grass is obvious but it's not immediately (or even at all) obvious that ghost should be super effective against psychic, or that bug for that matter should btfo alakazam.
>>56632191>but it's not immediately (or even at all) obvious that ghost should be super effective against psychic, or that bug for that matter should btfo alakazam.by the time you're truly tested on the knowledge of those types you've already fought them several times from trainers or wild encounters or even have some of them on your team. That's why those types are always mid to late game gyms
90% of the arguments in this thread are BTFOd by this faggot
>>56632206Sure but even rock isn't that obvious except in hindsight, the only real thing that's obvious is that normal gets resisted since it is after all a rockgrass and water make sense in hindsight but nobody looks at a fuckin boulder monster and says "ah yes the power of leaves shall destroy it"
>>56632058(Me)Man, running off the back of this first gym idea, it might be a bit much so early on, but imagine a rematch about midway through the game where the "Type Advantage" gym leader said "think fast, fuck face" and hit you with shit like Burn Up and Double Shock just to fuck with you and give you a real headscratcherAlso how fucked up would it be if the "Ability" gym leader's Ace was Shedinja, and they came right after the "Type Advantage" gym to really make sure you learned something from the previous gym
>>56632176They should be both. That's why you have them across the entire game.
>>56631553I just don't know why they haven't done a mechanic yet that rewards you for having specific team compositions. Something like a charm, 1 charm per team, with effects such as boosting your whole team's defence if they're all rock-type. then each gym could show off the benefits of the different charms while justifying the monotype theme
>>56632222Brock's gym isn't teaching you "hey Rock is weak to these things", it's teaching you "you can't just cruise along mashing Tackle on your starter like you mash the Attack command in other JRPGs, you have to vary and experiment". That's why Onix has Bide, a move made for the express purpose of countering people trying to brute-force it with physical moves. Sure it's teaching you something, but type effectiveness is only a part of the real lesson the game wants you to learn
>>56631553>would you get rid off gyms using only 1 type?No.But after the third gym, every team would be nearly entirely dual typed to make sure there's also at least one mon who nulls or resists a common weakness.Such as a water/ground for the water gym or a fairy/steel for the fairy.
>>56631553Level caps
>>56631553No, but I'd allow them to have EVs, improve the AI, and make the typing thematic instead of literal with half the pokemon permitted to violate gym typing.
>>56632548>swampert and mega mawileidk these seem a little strong for gyms
>>56631900It might just only be me but this is what I liked in Colosseum and XD. The enemies had good Pokémon and the games were hard. This in turn made Cypher actually look like a competent threat where a win against them felt deserved.
>>56631553The 1 type rule is a tradition of the franchise, it's basically the same as proposing to get rid of bird and bug types on the early routes.In my eyes, dual types from the 3rd gym onward like >>56632548 suggested, makw the pokemon overall stronger and have better movesets. The leaders could also item abuse a little bit more if you want to bullshit difficulty in
>>56632840>it's basically the same as proposing to get rid of bird and bug types on the early routesok but can the birds actually be good and look as cool as starmie/raptor at least
>>56632840>The leaders could also item abuse a little bit moreoran berries are available before the first gym most of the time, putting an oran berry on your ace isn't a big deal and would teach people to actually equip items
>>56631553I'd give gyms a theme and to challenge the gymleader you should have to fight specific trainers that each have a portion of the gym's them. let's say the gym is a construction site, meaning that the following types are present:>fighting>rock>ground>steelwe have then 4 ace trainers that each specialize in one of the types. you may only challenge them if you happen to have a pokemon of that type in your team. there's no level cap but a type limit. you may only fight with pokemon of that type so you can show that you mastered that type. at the end of each battle you get a key. once all of the keys are gathered you may challenge the gymleader.he uses all 4 types and you can only include pokemon with those types in your party.essentially, it's like a miniature elite 4 challenge with the gymleader being the gym's champion.congrats, you mastered the challenge.what might a reward be then?the badge and a useful VM or item that makes you proceed through the region.of course we shouldn't forget about puzzles.this is my ideal way of a gym challenge.not the babby's first gym bullshit. it also gives the player the incentive to catch more pokemon.thoughts?
>>56631553Yeah, but I'd still have them maintain a theme and use Pokemon that either directly support or would fit in with that type. Like giving Brock a Zubat because they're also found in caves.
>>56631900Power fantasies are more fun when you earn that ability.
