The Origins of Pokemon God, the meaning of giants and shards of the life egg, and how it cascades down to other pokemon. >INB4 ARCEUS TOOK DICK!No one story seems to align one-to-one with what we see in game, which seemed to have pulled a lot from particularly pmyth05.2"Aus"From what we see in game we know the following lore facts seem to be true>Aus is the true God, Arceus is his Pokemon avatarThis aligns with Legends Arceus giving you an Arceus when Arceus says that he will grant you a fraction of his power. Also that if you bring a 2nd different Arceus to the Sinjoh ruins, you can get another creation trio, implying that multiple Arceus are just fractions of Aus power. >Giants are the Cosmic egg fragments that Arceus killedThe flame and Earth plate align with the story that gives noted details of the giants having "Jungian fear over being born" and attacking Aus, who then defeated them all, leaving nothing but their plates.>Tree of Life and Gen 6Everything about the Lake trio attempting to proliferate nature around Pokemon and Humans from the tree of life and it sucking everything up to sustain itself only to be cut down aligns with the myths of Xernas and Yveltal being from the World Tree and how their powers work. >Weather Trio and certain legendaries are made from the Tree of LifeSeems to sustain why they control all of NATURE, not pokemon and explain why certain pokemon have such good base stats. >Regigigas is a fragment of the GiantsHe is called a giant in his dex entry, has the never before seen Blank plate of a normal type giant, and in Arceus Legends he reacts only to the plates, which are made from dead giants. the game seems to imply that all of pokemon is about a balance between 3 things:Humans, Pokemon, and nature. Humans who are wise like God but physical.Pokemon that are strong like God but physical and aligned with nature.Nature, the housing ground for both in the physical world.
>>56638240Post a bigger-res picture of that world map. Looks super interesting
>Regis = Giants schizo fanficOpinion discarded.>as the never before seen Blank plate of a normal type giantBecause you need a way to change Arceus back to normal. Next.>and in Arceus Legends he reacts only to the platesBecause the Regis aren't in Arceus. Next.Stop pushing your autistic headcanon as fact, retard.
nobody cares pokemon have canon dicks now and put them into people thats all people care about look at the fucking state of this board
>>56638240>man plaps god into creating the universe>Jungian "shell"Holy based. Was GF perverted geniuses all along?
>>56638293>Regigigas has a forbidden unknown plate that corresponds to his type>Regigigas can sense plates when no other pokemon but those imbued with Giratina or Arceus' power canDude I don't know why you have a hate boner for Regigigas but everything you need to assess the lore is on screen when you're playing the game. You can say game mechanics all you like but we have 2 distinct actions shown in the STORY of Regigigas being connected to the plates, which are Giant corpses.
>>56638240>We piece together in game loreThat'll only work if people go by actual game lore and not poketuber headcanon>Aus is the true God, Arceus is his Pokemon avatarNo, PLA states Arceus IS the deity.Aus is the beta name in those scripts.> if you bring a 2nd different Arceus to the Sinjoh ruins, you can get another creation trio, implying that multiple Arceus are just fractions of Aus power. That's gameplayAlso, the whole thing about regigigas is headcanon and the mistri stage diagram literally confirms Regigias's placement.This is why we can't piece together shit about the lore.
>>56638240I did try to unify the leaked myths that have Arceus into a singular myth.https://pastebin.com/rG2xTE3nThere is also myth 7.1 which actually seems to explain Ursaluna and Blood Moon in Legends Arceus, but it doesn't mention Arceus so I didn't add it.
>>56638387Don't forget, there was 17 giants before 17 plates existed. Fairy type came out in XY, these were written like 8 years prior.
>>56638405Both Ursaluna and BM are explained in the debut games.
>>56638387PLA has Arceus say he will grant you a fraction of his power and gives you an Arceus. Every single beta script talks about Ia and Ea taking on the form of a pokemon and then describes Palkia and Dialga, meaning the Gods made avatars, not that Palkia and Dialga are actually Ia and Ea.We can presume it is the same for Aus and this makes more sense seeing how HG/SS acknowledges multiple Arceus and explains why Gods are literally pokemon.
>>56638240the tree of life origin for the weather trio is lame, them being from giratina's soul is cooler
>>56638428I'm saying "explain" as in their original concept and where the idea came from not what their actual lore is.
>>56638240Giratina is clearly important, as Arceus' unwanted child. Need to find a way to integrate him.
>>56638240>oldest draft myth has the giant reek get dismembered to create the world
>>56638674>latest version of the arceus egg myth has the egg become a singular black giant that gets dismembered to create the worldthey seemed to like this idea
>>56638630It seems like Giratina is just the counterbalance for Arceus' power. That the more he uses his powers for good, equally evil grows, which explains why he doesn't just auto-do everything and leaves it to mortals to save creation.
AUTISM MODE: ENGAGE!The reason Groudon is supported by Heatran, Garchomp, and Cresselia is because Heatran represents the earth’s interior, Garchomp represents its exterior, and Cresselia represents the moon, ie another physical landform that was originally a part of the earth at its genesis (in real world broke off originally, if you didn’t know, from a strike). So three layers of land. But it doesn’t stop there. Jirachi and Deoxys are also in this section to further boost the extraterrestial origins of the planet earth. Just my personal autistic headcanon.
>>56638781We don't know who supports Groudon, people just made guesses.
>>56638861Gordon Freeman
>>56638734>This was a time when the world did not have a definite shape. This was a time when the boundaries between gods, people, and Pokémon were blurred.>The absolute god Aus gave birth to the giant, who shared its raging power, in order to create the ultimate world. The giant had the power to destroy, consume, and purify everything. Through the power of the giant, all walls were broken down and the world expanded.Its a cool duality dynamic
Regigigas will never be anything but a warehouse worker, moving shit about the place, cope hoennbabs. Your bots are shit.
>>56638240It seems reasonable that the Mythical Pokemon are the original children of Arceus. Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, and Manaphy all visually look similarly to Azelf, Mesprit, and Uxie. It says they were frail and died, but they also almost never appear in any games, so it makes sense that they would become mythical.
Arcues getting plap´d by a man then giving birth to Palkia and Dialga doesnt make sense because, how did this man exists before time and space themselves existed?
>>56639200Obviously a man existed before time and space and they had non-linear purely conceptual sex
>>56639200Time and light (because it was light and not space originally) existed at that point, he only named them after the words in his language that came to mind upon seeing Arceus' true form. It also doesn't start with an origin for Arceus like the other stories and aside from the lake trio Ia and Ea are not called the gods of time/light in this story like the rest but does say they have the powers and turn into dragons. So the timeline might be like this>Previous myths that detail Arceus origin, Ia and Ea god creation, and human/pokemon/world creation>Arceus split off power to make a destroyer titan>sexy time with human>the man names their kids after the words in his language that came about because of the gods of light/time>his kids are actually a manifestation of them in human avatar form that then reveal their true god forms to fight the titanSo time and light(space) existed and this is a part 2 to other myths. Obviously the biggest hurdle is that the origin myths have their own origin for the lake trio gods as children of Ia/Ea while this one is their human father's soul.
>>56639200bunch of unknown get together make a egg one of the only things we see then do before and Arceus need them to make palkia and Dialga
>>56639200the human lovemaking story obviously isn't in the lore that was incorporated into the game. I don't know why this needs to be said when Ea is the creator of all Pokemon and there was time that humans and pokemon were the same in history, so it is impossible for humans in canon to exist before Ea.
>>56638527>has Arceus say he will grant you a fraction of his powerSo the deity is Arceus>not that Palkia and Dialga are actually Ia and EaAnon, they're beta names, they're used in the development stage of the game because they aren't final.>HG/SS acknowledges multiple ArceusIt doesn't.
Looking back at the diagram, noticing the kana for dahabu is one off of ダーク (Darkrais placeholder from battle revolution) Is it possible that it was a typo and that whatever intern or program they used to translate the placeholder names didnt catch it?
>>56638343I know why. I hacked into his webcam and the sight was.. harrowing.eat shit, aus. you had to put a limiter on the gigachad traffic light because you knew if you didn't he'd kick your ass again
>>56640164Unlikely, regardless of whether they were using an IME or a proper JP keyboard. ha is nowhere near -.
>>56639962>the human lovemaking story obviously isn't in the lore that was incorporated into the game.You have to go back.
>>56638674>>56638694Sounds like it's partially inspired by the Chinese myth about Pangu>Primordial chaos gives way to an egg>The giant Pangu is born from said egg>He gets dismembered to create the world.
>>56638327that's easily the least interesting part
>>56638240the giant is not Regi it was a non-pokémon creature whose body became Mt. Coronet
>>56640648back to where, the Home for Sensible and Correct People?
Is there any compilation of all the creation myth documents translated to English? i only know there is like seven different versions
>>56640989I'd keep an eye on TCRFThey're apparently working on translating them all properly
>>56638405>https://pastebin.com/rG2xTE3nBro your Pastebin is all fucked up, You are not making this better by replacing "AUS" name with "ARCEUS", they are not necessarily the same being, same for EA and IA, as you can clearly see in the "ursaluna" text you sent yourself, EA (Palkia) is the TIME dragon, which is important, you shoudn't swap then in your summary just because they are swapped in canon!Also, Rayquaza didn't birth dragonite Gyarados and Tyranitar, only dragonite, Gyara is a "kyogre descendant" and Tyranitar is Groudon'sThen I stopped reading, dunno if you made other mistakes
>>56641197TCRF? is that a website or something?
>>56640989https://files.catbox.moe/9y2mn2.zipcheck here
>>56641257Do all you tourist fucks simply not know what Google is?
>>56639962>human lovemaking story obviously isn't in the lore that was incorporated into the gameI do believe the concept was reused for something else though. I think a union between man and Arceus is the origin of the lineage of Unova's old kings. It'd make for a nice reference to Japan's mythology of their Emperors being descended from Amaterasu, and we know how much Game freak likes to reference Japanese mythology.
>>56638405Do any of you guys have the actual files in the original Japanese? Everyone just shares the MTL shit.
>>56641263thank you a million times, sorry for the pestering
>>56641257no its a pizza restaurant, retard
>>56641218>Also, Rayquaza didn't birth dragonite Gyarados and Tyranitar, only dragonite, Gyara is a "kyogre descendant" and Tyranitar is Groudon'sIt's a difference in documents. Document 1 gives the weather trio each 3 supporting pokemonDocument 5 gives them only Dragonite, Gyarados, and TyranitarI chose to use document 1's version because it matches the diagram presented where they each get 3 and Rayquaza gets Dragonite, Gyarados, and Tyranitar
Pokemon lore is crazy
>>56641280nvm I should have read the full thread.Btw what about the other folklore stories?
>>56641270gen alpha children struggle with using google because they're used to people on tiktok giving them near-instant answers when they post questions in the comments. This is a real phenomenon btw
>>56638240Didn't the leaks say Gyarados and Tyranitar worked for Rayquaza to maintain the skys?
>>56638240Problem with this is that Regigigas is, like it might be a Giant as in the mythical sense but you need to twist things to fit because of explicit statements about what happened to the Giants/Giant and the fact that it's listed as part of the cosmology equal to Ho-Oh and Lugia.If we're including Yvetal and Xerneas, then it makes more sense to use Necrozma or Eternatus who both fit more cleanly as the Chaos Giant/REEK since it was almost certainly a proto-concept for one of them, or if you subscribe to the Regigigas=Prometheus Theory, to list all of them along with Zygarde, Ultra Beasts, and the Original Dragon as they're all roughly equal candidates under the argument of any remaining Giants being fragmented beings.
>>56641327Also Google fucking sucks now and alternative search engines often have their own problems.At this point it's sometimes just easier to ask some random asshole.
https://tcrf.net/Development:Pok%C3%A9mon_Diamond_and_Pearl/Documents
>>56638240>Tree of Life and humanity being punished with destruction for war was repurposed for Gen 6>Ancient Dragon of unstoppable power was repurposed for Gen 5Crazy how everything pre-Galar was planned since 2005 in a way.
>>56641332the diagram did, the text explaining the origin of the world only mentioned 3 pokemon as being underlings of the weather trio, Gyrados, Tyranitar, and Dragonite.
>>56641307Fair point, could you redirect me to the path the find the docs so I can double check?
>>56641510DP.zip\DP\DP仕様\pmyth
>The Archetype, Aus>Archetype Aus>Arche Aus>ArceusThat's my crack theory on how you get from one name to the other
>>56641445Thank you alot son
>>56641445These are just for DP, right?Were there a lot of lore leaks for other games, or mostly just this one?
>>56641485Tbh Galar unironically might have been at least a little bit. Eternatus is a literal giant, arrived in the form of that thing that Arceus doesn't fucking like that makes Rayquaza Grandma's favorite, was shattered into pieces fighting two powerful pokemon+a human, had its power and remnants spread across the world, was an "All consuming" force, and its forms are respectively a giant dark serpent and then a giant fucking hand that reaching down like a pillar from the sky, paralleling how Arceus is suggested to be shaped like a one of its "thousand hands".Necrozma also has all these Lucifer parallels and it's rise to full power is like an inverse of how Arceus in one of the myths creates Dialga/Palkia and technically isn't a pokemon [and is pretty damn big all things considered while living in a giant space tower or whatever when you fight it IIRC], so honestly it seems like both of them probably derive from different takes on two versions of the giant myth.
Is the giant who Arceus fought the teselian dragon? The union between reshiram, zekrom and kyurem?
>>56641812Everything after gen 4 has no real part in the creation myth from gen 4, so it's unlikely.
There's also this that got posted in one of the /ppg/ threadsrentry dot co/85ga76g2
>>56641850I'm honestly curious to know what the most modern pokebible says now, since new lore is probably reworked to fit in all the time in an evolving myth.
>>56641812It might be, it's one of the candidates but less likely than some of the others. More likely than Zygarde, and the wiggle room of "We know nothing about it" means any hypothetical original dragon can fit the mold as much as needed, which is a plus in its favor, but it's somewhat less likely than Regigigas or its hypothetical siblings.>>56641850The Giant/Giants seem to have not maybe been fully developed as something that was actually going to appear anytime soon. They kept this shit around as reference material though so it's not really out of the bounds that the giant/giants ended up being used as a basis for a pokemon that showed up later when they decided to develop a new big legendary and went through the material for inspiration or a foundation to use like said with >>56641807
>>56641883there's nothing pokemon in this, it's a report of mythology in general that brings up myths from other cultures and how it effects them.
>>56641510>>56641531nta, which docs are these?
>>56642020that folder contains all the folklore stories (lapras, octillery, typhlosion, etc.) and most of the creation stories
>>56641772Pretty much just DP from what I've seen, gotta remember that Sinnoh was the big mythology region so a lot of godmon lore was written at that time and it's probably the main backbone of any new lore
>>56641913I think the theory of regigigas being the last surviving giant is the most likely candidate, honestly, considering that we only just got the blank plate after 15 years.
>>56641509I swear I read in the doc that Latios,Latias, and Metagross were underlings to Kyogre and that Gyrados, tar, and nite worked under Rayquaza to maintain the skies. The 3 Groudon underlings just had names we've never seen before.
>>56641307>Tyranitar does nothing but cause sandstorm. Rayquaza must fucking hates this dude.
>>56642135Thing is that the plate by itself is a pretty logical thing for Regigigas to want [it boosts type moves in prior games, which would help mitigate Slow Start a tiny bit] and there's a giant mess of time to explain any convoluted theory on how it got the thing if you want.I'm not saying he isn't and I'm not saying he is, I'm saying that there's specific problems you need to account for and fanwank to make him fit cleanly which have more direct contradictions than some of the other candidates.Myself personally I'm kinda found of the idea that somehow both the single giant and multiple giants theory is true and that Regigigas was a Prometheus-style traitor who ended up with a punishment instead of just dead outright, since it cleanly explains why he's considered part of the family and dovetails away most of the problems without creating as much of a question of what the fuck is going on with the other candidates who fit super fucking well, they're all left overs.
>>56641307Here's the translated chart for easier reading>>56641332Dragonite, Gyarados, and Tyranitar according to the chart
>>56642154>>56642382that is what the sigil shows but the lore explaining what the sigil means in the "Aus" origin explains that the 3 non-legendaries are each heralds of the weather trio.Rayquaza - Dragonite - airGroudon - Tyranitar - landkyogre - gyrados - sea
>>56638781>Heatran, Garchomp, and CresseliaI think you mean Dahabu, Saan, and Gordon
>>56638240You should add the Unown here somewhere because of the Sinjoh event connecting them to Arceus.
>>56638240I been distant from the pokemon community lately and i found out that there was some massive leak with really interesting information,can someone PLEASE give me a TLDR?
>>56641909They might have stopped giving a shit. Although, clearly someone cared enough in PLA. I wonder if Kyurem being from space means anything. Theres a lot of alien implications
Can I get a >qrd
>>56642742PLA was Game Freak's B team, who the people leading the team have expressed that they want to do more of the fun stuff.
>>56642706>many creation myths not incorporated into the final game state Arceus took the human form of a woman and had children with a human. Those children later became Dialga and Palkia>these creation myths also say there was a giant who turned on Arceus but died and became Mt. Coronet. Some versions seem to imply this could've been an early concept for Giratina or, perhaps, Regigigas, although the first document explicitally says the giant was not a pokémon at all.>other stories not incorporated into the game include one where an ancient Typhlosion with shapeshifting powers brings a human girl to a cave, then breeds with her>later version of the story replaces Typhlosion with Slaking>lots of beta designs dropped, one of which looks like Tentaquil AGAIN proving once and for all that Anon was a dimensional traveler.
>>56638387Nigger go complete PLA. It is stated in PLA that the Pokémon Arceus is but a piece of the Creator. A Small finger out of its thousand hands.
>>56642932>What is a bunrei/wakemitamaArceus IS the creator god. It gives you a "piece" of its spirit because it wants you to spread the good word and make it more accessible for worship. This does not make it any less the Creator.
>>56642861WowThe breeding with humans parts are funny and fucked up lmao,the Arceus and Creation lore has always been very interesting , thank you anon
>>56643243The Pokemon you have is not the whole thing, just piece of his power.Thats why the monster balls work on him, dialga, and palkia. They are the avatars of the actual gods. The leaked lore even states outright that the "dragon pokemon" are just the forms that Ea and Ia took on to address humanity with explicit detail describing their pokemon forms that comport exactly to their canon designs.
>>56638607I forgot dialga and palkia got new forms. God did they suck
>>56639200Probably just the sinnoh mythology, pull a GRRM and reveal that it's all bullshit at the end
>>56642932>Nigger go complete PLAYou do so first because the text makes it clear that the full thing is also Arceus.You screeching for 15 years about a dex entry doesn't change shit.
So has the leaker stopped being a nigger and posted the za nsp yet?
>>56643308>The Pokemon you have is not the whole thing, just piece of his power.Correct.>They are the avatars of the actual gods.Wrong. This is not a "Yahweh walks among humans through his avatar Yeshua" thing, this is a "Amaterasu's spirit is enshrined in many shrines across Japan simultaneously" thing. Aus is not a distinct being from Arceus, it's just the prototype name before they settled on Arceus.
>>56642382I found the excel this came from and edited it with translations.The banner actually used a special font called "DFP祥南行書体W5" (which I found and downloaded) so that's why it looks like that.
>>56642861>later version of the story replaces Typhlosion with SlakingThe Typhlosion one is actually dated later than the Slaking one from what I've hear. Also the plots are entirely different so it's not really replacing one with the other. Should just treat them as the two separate stories they are along with the Piloswine, Octillery, Rapidash, Tauros, etc. ones
considering this is from gen4 development, I wonder if the giant aspect at all inspired the themes around Eternatus.Seems like a stretch honestly but I'm interested in whether they've bothered to update things in the background when developing new games or not.
>>56644463I would imagine that Zygarde has replaced one of the mons on the blue ring.
>>56640249I think >>56640164 meant the ブ and ク. So he's saying the name was originally ダーク (Daaku), which was Darkrai's beta name, and then an intern misspelled it as ダーブ (Daabu). The extra h is probably something else retarded that happened
>>56641685Man this art is so cool
>>56638240Where does Giratina and Zygarde fits into all this (same with Mew)?
>>56647900Gira is in the version actually used in games.Zygarde is either a blue or gray ringer.
>>56647900>GiratinaHe wasn't decided on by the time the prototypes this is referencing were made. Probably reworked from the weird elephant seal nosed thing into and fused with some of the giant lore to reach his official release status.>ZygardeNothing ties it back to gen 4 lore outside of it being pissy about Xerneas, Xyveltal, and possibly Ultra Space's fuckery. I'd second the other anon's guess of it being a blue supporter.
Pokemon lore is dogshit lmao
>>56647936>>56648015yeh, but what about mew?
>>56638240It sucks that they scaled up the lore so quickly that it ended at gen 4. Everything after that is just random myths which is what it should always have been.
>>56648015I hope we get a usable single Core to put on our team. The HP stat disparity between a single cell and 100% power construct could be interesting to leverage in a battle.
>>56638240
>>56638240You flip-flopped them. Ia is Dialga, Ea is Palkia.dIAmond and pEArl
>>56648989it's pink
>>56648989>>56642382>>56644122
>>56639200>Pokemon mythology is just as confusing as real mythologyGood
>>56638240I miss when Mew was the origin of Pokemon and that was the end of it. This is retarded.
>>56650778Mew being an ancestor isn't even the original idea.Original Gen 1 pokedex entries say that it's a rare Pokemon from South America and intelligent enough that it can learn any move.Gen 2 is when it says it contains the DNA of all Pokemon that lets it use any move and because it can use any move scientists say it must be the ancestor to all Pokemon.Gen 3 only keeps that it has the genetics of all Pokemon and adds that it can turn invisible.Gen 4 onwards sticks with the contains DNA and ancestor stuff.
>>56650921Mew is supposed to be the basal form of Pokemon, which is why he can transform into anything. There's also the Ditto theory as to the connection between Ditto and Mew. It's not supposed to be the "real" God pokemon, because Mew predates that nonsense. It's from when Pokemon were still treated like animals with evolutionary histories instead of some retarded take on Japanese myth.
>>56638240I have never seen lore so blatently bad, neither in japanese media nor in western media
True pkmn lore: The "egg" is the initial singularity of the universe. The Gods of Pokemon are the developers. Each Rom is a simulated universe. Quite literally, in fact. That's all the creation lore I need. Liked the touches to parallel universes (other roms) in ORAS though.
>>56650941>Mew is supposed to be the basal form of Pokemon,Really no evidence for that being the original case.>There's also the Ditto theory as to the connection between Ditto and Mew.That shit was debunked a long time ago by Masuda, they're completely separate things.>Pokemon were still treated like animals with evolutionary histories instead of some retarded take on Japanese myth.Pokemon have always had relations to the Japanese mythos because some of them are just copy of popular yokai.
>>56651016Pokemon aren't comparable to youkai, they were originally based on bug collections. You're a newfag eating shit spewed out decades after Gen 1. Everyone in the 90's knew that Mew was the 'original' Pokemon.
>>56651058>Pokemon aren't comparable to youkaiYou really don't understand where the design of certain gen 1 pokemon come from.>they were originally based on bug collectionsThe collection of bugs itself hence capturing. Also that isn't mutually exclusive with some Pokemon being yokai.
>>56638240Aren't Gyarados, Dragonite ans Tyranitar gods of the sky after Rayquaza? Weren't the gods of the ocean Metagross and the Latixs?Also the giants aren't and can't be the Regis. They're from Arceus' egg, they're something more primordial. The legend specifies that before Arceus there was only chaos. They're chaos gods. In irl lore many legends explain that before the cosmic gods there was a cycle of giants and chaotic forces. The most eloquent of these myths is the Sumerian myth of Tiamat slain by Marduk. Like Tiamat, these chaotic gods are often serpent-like, reptilian or draconic although not necessarily preexistent. There are many others like Jormugandr, Apep and Tyfon. At least two of the giants are Necrozma and Eternatus. Which lines up with their BST being grater than Arceus'. Also these dragon-like primordial entities are often agents of evolution, sometimes beyond God's rules. The promise of Genesis, the spawn of the giant Nefilim. In Hinduism kundalini is a serpentine energy that grants perfection and spiritual realization. All similar to how Necrozma and Eternatus grant Z-moves and Gigamax phenomena.Cap this shit for reference. The Regis are not the primordial giants, however given how they were locked away it would be interesting to see if they could correspond to titans/nefilim.
>>56651097Pokemon flat out are not youkai, they are animals. One of the most key concepts in Pokemon, even with all this PokeGod garbage, is deep time and evolution. Concepts NOT compatiable with youkai.>BUT DROWSEEOkay, and what about Aerodactyl, chucklefuck? 99% of Pokemon are just animals. Always been, always will be.
>>56651238>Pokemon are just animalsMasuda doesn't seem to think so
>>56651337Masuda also thinks cutting the battle frontier is a good idea because children had Angry Birds on their phones. Masuda has long been established to be a retard who shouldn't be trusted to direct a salad bar let alone a videogame
Picrel, I think I figured out who these other mons are.
Going to assume the ones under Groudon's control are Salamance, Heatran, and Garchomp, while one of the two missing mythicals can be filled by Shaymin, but then we'd need to pull from gen 5 and on to fill the other (with Victini, presumably). What I wanna know is where would Cresselia and Darkrai fit in all this?
>>56638240regigigas wasnt part of the creation lore, he is just a janitor made much laterkys regicuck
Reminder that we've never seen Arceus and Mew together officially. All the Mew shit is pure headcanon.
>>56651348And it was. Sorry autistic wasteoids like you think you're the lion's share of $5 billion a Gen revenue but if you truly were, yis wouldn't be crying like a bunch of poor brown little boys, mad they can't just steal a new computer to emulate it as your old one's fucked.
>>56651238Ninetales is based on the Kyubi no Kitsune who becomes gold colored and has 9 tails after 1000 years.Golduck is based on the kappa with its duckbill and head shape.Slowbro is based on a Sazae-oni that is a turban snail that transform at 30 years of age.Exeggutor is based on Jinmenju a tree yokai that bears human faced fruit.Electabuzz is based on an Oni a moster that is associated with thunder and wears tiger-striped clothing.Magmar is based on the Japanese Buddhist Karura a giant fire-breathing race that is at odds with the Naga.
Why myth matches Arceus's pokedex entries best?"It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed. It is said to have emerged from an egg in a place where there was nothing, then shaped the world. It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms."
>>56638240>>56638263Wait where's the map from???
>>56654938Just a generic PokeEarth from DeviantArt
>>56638240Your section about the hoenn trio is wrong, your 3 mons are under Rayquaza (with some records replacing Gyarados with Snorlax), Kyogre has the Lati twins and Metagross, Groudon has three unknown gen 4 mons but likely to be Garchomp, Cresselia and Darkrai
>>56638293Gameplay explanation and in universe explanation aren’t mutually exclusive
>>56638240>Gyradoswhat a retarded comogony
>>56652837What are you even screeching about? This series started through bug catching no. matter how much you seethe.
>>56641307SInce this alchemic circle is outdated, should we find placements for the Trio of Life, Death, and Rebirth (place them where the legends/psudeolegends were)?
>>56655488Okay, hear me out:Kyogre;Xerneas: BirthAll life born in the oceanPairs: Latios/LatiasMythicals: Mew and ManaphyRayquaza;Zygarde: LifeAll life strives to ascends to the heavensPairs: Zacian/ZamazentaMythicals: Celebi and JirachiGroudon;Yveltal: DeathAll life dissolve into the soil.Pairs: Cresselia/DarkraiMythicals: Marshadow and HoopaLower right circle:The Nature Incarnate trio, with Enamorus in the center
>>56655488Xerneas and Yveltal are most likely not an actual trio with Zygarde. And if one does feel compelled to add them, what about the genies? There's four of the fuckers now.
>>56655772SInce Enamourus a female and shown up last, she'll be the leader as shown here: >>56655771Also, Zygarde more or less monitors life; Xerneas grand them and Yveltal takes them away.
>>56655799Eh, sure. Some of the others on that post seem pretty dodgy though. (I'm pretty sure that the Zas aren't meant to be actual pokegods, and I think Marshadow is just some dude)
>>56639200The pokemon myths aren’t meant to be taken literally. Masuda says this outright via a character as a mouthpiece in every game he directs, and in interviews and on Twitter. There’s even a note in this leak where they state to make it ambiguous if the Sinnoh myths are true or just an interpretation by the people. Just like >>56650594 where the chronology and ontology of everything can be inconsistent due to many narrators and retellings.
>>56655956Diamond, Pearl, Platinum, & Legends Arceus say Masuda is full of fucking shit.
>>56655772> Xerneas and Yveltal are most likely not an actual trio with ZygardeThey are. It’s not directly stated in the games because muh no Kalos reserve game (yet), but the anime writers do consult Gamefreak for the lore intent. In the anime it’s mentioned that the three of them were born from the land and work together to balance nature. Xerneas gives life, Yveltal takes life, and Zygarde monitors the cycle to punish people who interfere with Xerneas/Yveltal. There’s a scene where some ancient people try to burn down Xerneas in its dormant tree form, and Zygarde forms up to punish them.
>>56656009Lol no, Cynthia even questions if Dialga/Palkia truly rule over time and space in Platinum, or if it was just people seeing the might of their battles on Spear Pillar. Then you have the myths of the UMA trio stripping away spirit from transgressors, and yet team galactic gets off scot free from torturing them (this is alluded to in the recent leaks when discussing the direction of that trio so it’s 100% intentional). Then there’s Giratina’s portal supposedly leading to “the great beyond” but distortion world explicitly isn’t an afterlife area, it’s just the overlap point is venerated as a burial ground etc.
>>56656070You have yet to explain away LA. Curious.
>>56655956They're also a way of showing how the culture was back then like real life myths. The myth of Baucis and Philemon has Zeus and Hermes disguised as peasants go door to door asking for some hospitality and to stay the night. Baucis and Philemon agree and, to keep this short, are spared when Zeus floods everyone who didn't give them hospitality. This myth is about the ancient greek conception of xenia.Likewise these pokemon myths are about the culture of the Sinnoh region and how the culture considered pokemon and human relationships either as lovers/friends or enemies and how in the culture you should respect the gods.
>>56644122I just noticed Regigigas forms a creation triad with Ho-oh and Lugia along with their lower servant triads. But Gen 8 fucks that up with the new Regis
>>56656256Isn't gen 7+ supposed to be a different universe?
>>56656290Not really. This is beta stuff though.And the beta mistri stage was already retconned when the actual mistri stage showed up.
>>56656290Gen I and II are their own existence.Fire-Red/Leaf Green are the start of the current mainline timeline that continues all the way through SM. So it goesFRLGRSEDPPBWB2W2X/YSun/ MoonORAS and Ultra SM are their own multiversal universe, as the other games don't have multiverses but those games do. We don't know if Gens 8 and 9 are in one or the other universe. Basically the only way to know is if Mega Rayquaza or Ultra Necrozma exists, you're in the multiverse. If not you're in the mainline games starting in FRLG
>>56656420Stop spreading misinformation.
>>56656420Nigga that’s nuts.
>>56656420>Necrozma so powerful he fucks reality into pieces>we still haven't seen his true form or the full extent of what he can do
>>56656458The Red we see in SM is the same Red we see in FR/LG and who was at the World Championship in BW2.Also all the games make direct references to eachother and the progression of time up until Galar. Only ORAS and USUM are multiversal.
Primal Regigigas when
>>56656539ORAS only brings up the nonexistent of Megavolution in past generations as parallel worlds (gen 1-5); SM/USUM is the only narrative that dwells into the parallel worlds since those were tied to the main story (especially USUM, with their Ultra recons and wormholes). Everything else were mere reference between games; hell, starting from gen 7, all of the power gimmicks were restricted to their respective regions (Z-moves in Alola, Dynamax in Galar, etc.)
>>56655771Landorus should be in the center
I really like the ancient titans idea. Would make for a fun serious fangame if some space time shenanigans brought them all back into existence.
>>56656539>>56656788They're ALL multiversal, but that does not mean there's not a prime timeline (Like Earth-616 is Marvel's Prime universe and timeline which all the rest spawned out from).
>regigigas made the regis to resemble the other giants (speculated)>regidrago's arms are a dragon head>base necrozma is also a dragon head>ultra necrozma is part dragonit's possible that regigigas and necrozma are both giants>but arceus only left one of the giants alive!necrozma is from another dimension, arriving through an ultra wormhole. maybe a dimension where he was the surviving giant? maybe each world we visit through ultra wormholes is one where a different giant survived.
>>56656539>The Red we see in SM is the same Red we see in FR/LG and who was at the World Championship in BW2.>Also all the games make direct references to eachother and the progression of time up until Galar. None of these prove your fanfic. Galar and Paldea also reference other regions btw.>Only ORAS and USUM are multiversal.BW literally introduced the multiverse and SM literally has you going to another world.>>56656788>ORAS only brings up the nonexistent of Megavolution in past generations as parallel worlds (gen 1-5);Not really, Zinnia only mentions Hoenn. Read the text instead of listening to poketubers.
>>56657164616 is just the main universe(and IIRC its not "prime" like DC's Earth 0), but not the main timeline.Pokemon outright cannot work the same way because Black and White already present two versions of the same event without either being the "main" one, same with SM and potentially every other pair.
>>56657343i don't think the paired versions are part of the cosmology or multiverse.i think you're supposed to pick the versions you like best and make that your personal canon.
>>56655488it's not outdated, it appears again in arceus's arena in legends
>>56657464The versions tell specific versions of the events of the Generation (eg Lucas stopped the raging of D&P at the Spear Pillar and entered Giratina's world, but each game focused on a different legendary) The events of the games happen in the timeline, but the details differ in between games.
>>56655488>>56655772i think since this diagram was made, some of the placements have been changedfor example, it feels like the galarian forms of the legendary birds is a way to indirectly retcon them back into just being rare and strong. the forces of nature should take their place as weather gods.also Hoenn's legendaries had a connection with Yggdrasil, but we got more explicit references with the box legendaries of Kalos.the addition of two new regis also means Regigigas wouldn't fit on the chart either. which would make sense if it's a titan that predates Arceus.so additionally i say remove the regis, move the weather trio to where they were, and move the kalos trio to where the weather trio was. and maybe remove all the non-legendaries because that's kind of stupid.
>>56657168>Necrozma and Eternatus are both parts of one of Regigigas' brothers
Regigigas isn’t a giant. Retards.
>>56657913I dunno, he's pretty fucking large...
>>56657464>i don't think the paired versions are part of the cosmology or multiverse.They've outright said so for Gen 5 and 7.>i think you're supposed to pick the versions you like best and make that your personal canon.Its its personal then its not a canon, as the canon has to be a point of reference for all of us.And if it it somehow were supposed to be personal then that's more reason to think there's not a prime universe.
>>56657929For you.
>>56646325>>56640164It's most-likely Darkrai. With this in mind, Saan (katakana for sun) is definitely Cresselia. Yeah they have a moon motif but it's close enough. Gordon is probably Garchomp simply because it's the only pseudo-legendary not explicitly named in the hierarchy, but because it was still in development at the time it's can be assumed that Gordon was just a placeholder name.
>>56657789more or less
>>56658074>With this in mind, Saan (katakana for sun) is definitely Cresselia. Yeah they have a moon motif but it's close enough.That makes sense. Since Cresselia is Darkrai counterpart, the original concept might've been the more obvious day and night duo which got turned into the crescent and new moon after some rounds of refinement.I'm guessing Birthly is Manaphy since it can give birth and Smilay is Shaymin since it's the last mythical left in gen 4.
>>56658074Gordon could also be Heatran couldn't it?. Garchomp doesn't necessarily need to be included if Salamance wasn't.Goodon (グードン) was once used as one of the placeholder names for Camerupt, another volcano related Pokemon.
>>56657618the beta is outdated, along with the pokemon placement for the first part.
>>56657617Some interesting discussion here
>>56659758i'm going to say that was entirely abandoned because it's not referenced, even remotely, in any way in the games
>>56640164Something I noticed is that The Weather Trio and their supporters all have Megas and Mega equivalents, except for Dragonite.
>>56659789It's only really useful to see why Metagross would have relation to Kyogre/sea.
>>56659831I think I now realize why Rayquaza's avatars are those pics. They don't represent the sky much as they do the idea that Rayquaza keeps the other two in check. Each of these three represent land (Tyranitar), sea (Gyarados) and air (Dragonite)
>>56659931Can't be. Snorlax was there instead of Gyarados originally. It's just a Pangu reference.
>>56659789It's in the movie at least
>>56659931Each of them also have a 4x weakness
>>56659957Just replace Defence Mechanism of Altomare with several Beldum, Metang and Metagross
>>56659931>>56659955I thought it was an Atlas thing; like Tyranitar, Snorlax/Gyarados, and Dragonite mythologically holding up the sky or something
>>56660005Same here. So the Eon Duo and Metagross are send ups to Atlantis/Mediterranean myths so the only mystery is Groudon's avatars.
>repeatedly mentioned to whinny in the lore documents>like 20 years later they both get horse formsweird how that ended up becoming relevant so long after these were written
Dahabu is Togekiss. ダーブ doesn't transliterate to "Dahabu" but "Dabu" (as an hiragana ー elongates a vowel, nothing more), and "Dabu" means dove, and Togekiss is inspired by doves, which would also most likely mean it's beta name would be something descriptive like that.
>>56660539this is a good hunch but the only thing that makes me not believe it is that the Toge line all have the same names in japanese as they do in english, meaning they all have "toge-" in the name and chances are they would have had that idea pretty early in the pokemon's conceptexcept, of course, if togekiss wasn't originally planned as part of the toge line and was added later
>>56660539We get Dahabu because on the right side of the diagram it spells out the name as that.
>>56660187This is how Game Freak work. They don't reveal any concept lore, nor concept art becayuse they may yet use it as inspiration and basis for a creature that actually makes it to the game or lore that can be repurposed (I'd bet the origin forms were planned for DP or Platinum maybe and they couldn't get them where they wanted them).
>>56660539>>56660582Those names seem like placeholders. Birthlee and Smilay are almost definitely placeholders for Manaphy and Shaymin.
>>56660811right, but why would the placeholder for a member of the togepi family not have "toge" in it?
>>56660858Never said it wouldn't, just said that the names are placeholders therefore Dahabu cannot be Togekiss
>>56660811Considering the other four on the outer ring are mythical, yeah. The big issue is groudon's and why.
>>56660979I think it's Darkrai, Cresselia and if what anons have been saying in other threads true then that weird pokemon that got overwritten by Giratina at the end of development.
>>56660582That also made me doubt of Togekiss being one of the 3 unknown pokemons at first since the entire Toge line shares the same first hiraganas for their names, but the fact that none of the beta names stuck tells me that this is not definitive. In fact, it would be in accordance to how Tex became Regigigas, since it's original name did not share the common begining the other Regis had (レジギガス is it's finalized name, yet "Tex", or テックス starts with an テ instead of レ like Regirock/レジロック, Registeel/レジスチル, and Regice/レジアイス).>>56660618Have you considered that a Japanese man in 2005 simply made a translation mistake in an early draft because the english language sometimes works this way but sometimes doesn't?>>56660811The names being placeholders is exactly what makes me think more and more that it is Togekiss since "Dabu" is more or less a descriptive for it.>>56660858Why would the placeholder for Regigigas not have Regi in it?
>>56656256clearly we need more Eevees to burn in towers and more birds that can count
>>56656420rip in piss HGSS, already forgotten
>>56638240Hello, I’ve been discussing and deeply interested in the leaks and the myths but I’m curious about Giratina.Some anons said Giratina was noticeably absent in the drafts and his numbering indicates he was a later idea, others that there are indications of a Pokemon that was straight up killed for his insolence and that this should be Giratina, the Ghost typing not only representing anti-matter but the idea that Lucifer turns into Satan as he is banished, with the current Giratina being after he recovered from it.Does anyone knw more? Most discussions focus on procreation or the Arceus & Regigigas part of the creation myth. Which I’m loving but I also am curious about Giratina.
