>no xp share?>mandatory hms? >on skibidi i don't believe youHow do you reply without making it sound like the old games had shit mechanics?
>>56693183But the old games do have shit mechanics.
>>56693183Us older zoomers either grew up on RSE, DPPT and BW THOUGH
>>56693218RSE is a stretch since the oldest zoomoids would have been no older than 4-5 at the time of release, only a small minority grew up on it. DPPt and BW, sure.
>>56693218Someone who was 10 years old when RSE released would be 32 now. I get you want to feel young, but you're not a zoomer unc. Give it up
>>56693183malding
>>56693246But I was 7 when emerald came out, I remember it well. However I'd agree DPPt is the old zoomer generation. I remember DP with what I'd assume were corocoro leaks (I remember seeing magazine pics of gen 4 pokemon to come while browsing the internet for random shit, mostly pokemon/linkin park shit) and it was real hype. Getting the deities was metal as fuck. Lucas was literally me fr fr on god type shit.
>>56693218> younger millennial
>>56693183I would just whip out my 3ds and show him
>>56693499So you're 27You're not a zoomerEven if you find some internet thing saying "the oldest zoomer is 28" no one thinks of you when they think of a zoomer
>>56693246How come Pokefags fail to grasp that most people didn't initially play games immediately after they released 20 years ago? The used game market was fucking huge until about 8th Gen.
>>56693183"The old games weren't balanced around party-wide Exp Share, so it wasn't necessary. Despite a level gap, the player's Pokémon have boosts to their stats that the enemy Pokémon never have. So, even if you appear to be underleveled, you can still win most battles as long as you have a decent strategy. The player just needs to use their mind, rather than brute strength alone."
>>56693628>rather than brute strength aloneNo you still sorta just do brute strength alone.
>>56693183There's nothing wrong with mandatory HMs since most Pokémon won't need all four move slots anyway. You can definitely afford to slap Rock Smash or Strength on something. They're not even particularly terrible moves.
>>56693249He is a zoomer. Zoomers are just in their 20s now. Current teenagers are all Gen Alpha.
>>56693646How so? You still need to factor in type matchups, and there are plenty of times where statuses will keep your Pokémon alive much longer against a high leveled opponent.
>>56693249I started with Red version when I was 6 years old and I'm 30 now.One's first pokemon experience doesn't have to start with the latest release, or right when the newest game is out, or when you hit 10 years old, you know.
>>56693183he"s sexy
>>56693183HMs WERE a shit mechanic and literally everybody hated them until they were removed and then suddenly being forced to have a bird and water type or useless HM slave on your team was "SOVL"
>>56694118They hate any sort of quality-of-life changes like that because they want newer players to suffer through the same tedium.
>>56694118>literally everybodyI didn't hate them therefore you're full of shit.
>>56694170You actually enjoyed having a niggerrat whose entire purpose was to know strength and rock smash?
>>56694203I never had to use rodentshms are supposed to be spread out, not a single mon having 4 of them
>>56693628Recently replayed Blue, my entire team I recall was sub-60 but I was hard-carried by Pokemon with Amnesia and Rest
>>56693499You are technically a millennial by most counts, 100% a millennial by the original definition (anyone born before 2000)
>>56694246Zoomers start at 1997
>>56694246>100% a millennial by the original definitionCalling my girlfriend to let her know I beat the zoomer allegations.
>>56694118The only thing shit about them was that they were shit moves, all except Surf
>>56693246I'm 27 and I definitely remember kids in my class playing Ruby and Sapphire back in 2004/2005I wasn't one of them because I had to wait until the DS to get a handheld
>>56693592People can never agree with the dates anyway. Originally, it was the last generation of children born before the millennium defining millennials, so that includes people born up to Dec 31st 1999. Then it's slowly been peeled back and varies from as late as 98, to as early as 94, depending on who you askGenerational boundaries are retarded because they're rarely hard boundaries and a millennial around 95 will have more in common with a GenZ born a few years later, compared to a milllennial born in 81, who will have more in common with GenX. This is also why we have retard snowflake terms like "Xennial" and "Zellennial", because people are so cucked into thinking that they were hard cut-offs that they need identifiers for these boundaries
>>56694118if you go on a monster-raising adventure you should use said monsters to overcome your obstacles and interact with the environment. it's just common sense.
>It's called Pokémon Hard Mode>You take overworld poison damage and can even faint>There are no overworld healers>You can't raise affection, no bonus crits, no bonus experience unless you have a traded Pokémon, no free status heals>No Fairy-types, which means Dragon-types are harder to deal with and also harder to acquire>In Gen I, moves and items have no descriptions so you just have to remember what they do>Moves aren't as strong average>You have no mid-battle transformation or super move to carry you through>You have to sacrifice move slots for complete navigation of the overworld>You can't get critical captures>They don't tell you where to go or lead you there, routes and cities can branch>Some gyms can even be battled out of order>And the atmosphere is wicked dark, you don't have friends cheering you on the whole time, you can't dance, you can't pet your Pokémon or play dress-up>And the world, it's way more realistic>Yeah bro, it's hardcore like Dark Souls no cap fr fr
>>56693249See? Retard takes like this are the reason why Zoomers became a buzzword
>>56693218eldest zoomers actually grew up with gsc
>>56693246I played FireRed as my first game and I'm 22
>>56693592>>56694246I beat the zoomer allegations by your definition then, nice.
>>56694222NTA, but as a DPPt-let myself, I don't think the earliest implementations of HMs are as bad as people make them out to be. I liked SM's answer to HMs much better, obviously, but honestly, my biggest issue with old games and HMs is that there's more HMs than there are slots in your party. Who the fuck in their right mind wants Defog, Whirlpool, or Flash to shit up their party's moveset? At least the useful HMs are moves worth having for the most part, like Surf and Fly. Some people may think it's cringe, but I like how some romhacks/fangames change Cut to Grass-type and Strength to Fighting-type. More opportunities for STAB means more thought goes into my teambuilding in a Gen where HMs are mandatory. Gens which usually have dogshit regional dexes, as they are earlier in the series.
>>56693677There are Pokemon like starters that can pretty much solo the GB/DS game, especially when you funnel exp into them instead of having 6combat mons, and if you liberally use items in battle.I haven’t done so personally but I would be shocked if you couldn’t brute force the majority of DPPt with Infernape, for example
>>56694820People who wax nostalgic about HMs always seem to forget that their implementation got progressively tedious as time went on. Hoenn started okay, then the second half of the game had you juggling three different water HMs, DPPt thought it was cute to shove in that dumb fog route. As much as I like to bitch about nuPokemon game design, one thing I do not miss are HMs
>>56694820>my biggest issue with old games and HMs is that there's more HMs than there are slots in your partyYou never need to carry all of them at once. The worst places for HMs are the gen 3/4 victory roads, but that's still only 4-5 tops.
>>56694820SM had arguably the best HM implementation. From there the only improvement would be to remove obstacles altogether or a hackrom-esque approach, where you need a compatible Pokemon in your party to use the overword move without it learning it, but that's a flawed idea on its own given how moves work in-game.
>>56695057>You never need to carry all of them at once.>Cut, Rock Smash, Surf, Flythese are the bare minimum for overworld exploration/route progression/obtaining items in most early Pokemon games. You can guarantee Strength is needed for almost any cave that isn't in the early game. Then whatever game you're playing has it's own gimmick HMs that are entirely fluff or useful in, at most, a couple of areas that require you to either think ahead with Pokemon you don't want to use, or backtrack to the Move Relearner and waste precious Heart Scales on bad game design. In Gens 1 and 2, though? Fuck you. You *have* to use HMs, because they're some of the best moves for that type that exist, or that the Pokemon will learn. And God forbid you're playing Gen 3 or 4 where a good chunk of mons have moves that their pre-evolutions learn, but they themselves don't, like stone evolutions, so they can't relearn them from a tutor. They only fixed that stain on the series in Gen 8 of all games. But by then, they had already solved the HM problem. Six Generations too late. At least Gen 5 started the move forward by making Strength rocks a one-time, permanent thing to solve.I don't think HM's are inherently bad, but they contain a disorienting amount of minor flaws that add up over the course of even a single playthrough. I like Ride Pokemon for how they solved the issue, but it removed the agency my teambuilding choices had in overcoming an obstacle. I would've liked a solution where HMs (and other applicable field moves, through level-up or TMs) can be taught as a permanent field move, like how Pokemon in the Ranger games worked. And if you think you'll need a strong Water move for an area you enter, you can Surf instantly from your known field moves by replacing a move used for battle. Perfect solution.
>>56695167https://youtu.be/OImwWKV3jGc?si=TRHp6krZkrZF_j1e>ruins your HM replacement conceptnothin personnel
>>56695513> would've liked a solution where HMs (and other applicable field moves, through level-up or TMs) can be taught as a permanent field moveSoulless.
>>56694829You can. I played gens 1-4 always just brute forcing with the starter
>>56696166>arbitrary tedium is soulfuldo oldfags really?
>>56693246I'm 26 and had FireRed and Emerald before getting Diamond.
>>56693246West Coast USA had a lot of hand me down consoles.
>>56694321Correct! But it's worth noting that nowhere in your statement did you include "using an item to waste a move slot so that your monster with sickle arms can now cut down a twig because it was incapable of doing so previously for no reason".
>>56696240that's right tranny. alola and galar are fucking shit
>>56693183>mandatory hms?This was horrible and nobody liked it. I'm glad it's gone, good riddance.
>>56697296>attacking arguments I never made>attacking a shadow identity he invented for meDeranged and incoherent. May you find Christ so that you can work out your issues through Him.
>>56697296Based tranny expert
>>56693218imma zoomer and i grew up on red and blue bcs i love tem and i collected the old ones :>
>>56693183"I ain't cappin famalam. Kinda unnecessary now but back then Pokemon was rizzin up something closer to a traditional JRPG's gyatt. Whether you like the old skibid or the new skibid it's all the same sigma"
>>56696240Yes it is better having tedium and friction in a game, that's what makes it a game. You do something that has a small amount of mental stress and you get rewarded for it. If there is a locked door, I expect there to be a key. Getting a key involves going out of your way to find it. When I find it and unlock the door, I expect that key to either be consumed or take up a one of my limited inventory slots if there are future doors unless I store it somewhere out of the way. If the key can be carried and used without limit or burden, then why are there even locked doors in the future if they will always be unlocked without any effort on the player's part? The least stressful path of progression is for there to not be a door, but it's also the least interesting from a game design perspective. These doors, in addition to their initial function of serving as a progression block that must be solved by the player, can also be used to offer additional optional rewards, challenges, and content for those who chose to hinder themselves and bring the key.The difference between Pokémon and Resident Evil is that even with a team that has two HM slaves, you have a ton of leeway with four remaining Pokémon exclusively dedicated to battles since it's a JRPG and it's very easy to become overleveled. Pokémon has always been the series where the playerbase had to do self-imposed challenges to be considered more engaging. Resident Evil is far more punishing with space management than Pokémon, that's what makes it tense and engaging. But the difference between Pokémon fans and Resident Evil fans is that one wants to play games and the other wants to pretend they're in the Pokémon world with their magical cartoon animal friends.
>>56698160>that's what makes it a gamePlay better games.
>>56693218Anyone saying the DS era wasn't the zoomer era is a gaslighter
>>56698164I did, that's why I haven't played a new mainline Pokémon since Sun. I had never felt so looked down upon by a game before, that they would consider me so inept that I needed a map pinned to the bottom screen with destination marks and reminders to walk the straightforward path to the next destination. And all the characters holding my hand the whole way, telling me what a special boy I was for doing the most mundane mandatory progression, it became patronizing. It felt so insincere and disrespectful.I hear that modern Pokémon fans hate this GIF but it applies to them.
>>56694222>hms are supposed to be spread out, not a single mon having 4 of thembased
>>56698297You're so special anon! :)
>>56697387Die avatarfagging tranny nigger . HMs are for the white man who has bonded with animal and made them his toolOnly nigger shitskins take issue with Hms because nigger Sub Saharan Subhumans never domesticated animal. If a game doesnt have at least 5 HMs; it was made to pander to niggers and trannys and it is NOT a real pokemon game.
>>56698400
>>56694118No, we just hated the fact that you couldn’t forget them normally Field moves themselves were universally loved
>>56698493erm, more like RACIST department!
>>56694820You literally get the move deleter right after you get defog. It’s not a coincidence
>>56698400The games are not engaging at all anymore. You don’t have to think about your travels, you don’t have to think about team building for HM’s, you don’t have to rotate your team to level them up. Hell I don’t think at all when I play anymore. I plan my team before I play and have a list of where everything is and 90% of the time I only pull a Pokémon out to battle if they have a type advantage that I know about coming in otherwise it’s like 1 Pokémon leading the party and everyone else hides behind it
>>56698400Basado
>>56693499Based
>>56693653>They're not even particularly terrible moves.When they were introduced, Rock Smash was 20 base power, and Whirlpool was only 15.
>>56698400>N-no! Nigger! It's actually a good thing that you're forced to shit up your movesets with otherwise dogshit inaccurate moves!>Dumbass tranny, it's a good thing that your Water mon has one move which is objectively better than their entire movepool and 2 of their other moves, which are also Water HMs!>N-no, stop realizing that Strength is just a better version of Cut! S-stop noticing! Stooop! Nigger! Faggot! Trannynigger! Faggot, stoooop!
>>56693246i was born in 98 and the main pokemon games i played were Firered, sapphire and emerald. i remember buying and playing all of these before Diamond released, which was the last Pokemon game of my childhood.
>>56699406That's nigger , they need to bring back HMs 12 HMs needed to fully traverse any regionThe feeble minded nigger ape can't comprehend an animal working for him The subhuman monkey nigger always needs a hand outThe gorilla nigger ape can't make a sacrificeThe stinky jigaboo has no patienceThe baboon lipped shitskin could never scale a mountain
>>56698297>I did,No you didn't.
>>56693183YOU LOST.
>>56699614>still deflecting and not making any sort of tangible argument in favor of HMs>refuses to directly tackle any criticism towards his favorite poorly made struggle mechanic>continues to parade his wrongthink ideals of perceived challenge in video games, a fundamentally easy hobby, not even mentioning that in reality, he's praising artificial difficulty, the lowest form of intentionally bad game design>resorting to revealing his life-crippling porn addiction and personal fetishes in order to "support" his "argument">lack of an argument means his only recourse is repeating the funny black word (also a pornographic obsession of his) in a feeble attempt to drain the sanity of others, to bring them down to his bottomfeeder levelWhat's his endgame?
>>56693183>>56693246I am 25 and Sapphire and FireRed were my first games, and my dad who was a huge gamer and who bought everything that was popular from Nintendo and Sony had Pokemon Yellow which he gave to me as well. I also got Pokemon Red for Christmas when I was 9. I was a snob even as a kid and judged Diamond and Pearl's legendaries when I saw them and I remember being pissed and thinking they were overdesigned when they revealed them lol. I grew up on the gen 1 anime and movies and really disliked gen 5 when that released too.
>>56699824"Yes im a Calling yourself a fat lazy nigger chimp" <---It's not an argument to be debunked
>>56693183Sometimes I get annoyed with Pokemon and Pokemon fans because people just refuse to admit it's like any other RPG.It doesn't matter what gen you're playing and what the mechanics are, all that changes is how you build your team, which you do based on the mechanics of the gen you're playing.Playing Gen 1? You need a surfmon, an HM slave, and the rest of your team should either be high special mons, coverage mons (Nidoking etc.), or high attack/high speed mons (Kabutops etc.)Playing Gen 2? Mostly the same as Gen 1, but some high special mons are shit now and you have hold items.Playing Gen 3? Still mostly the same as Gen 1, but you need to pay attention to abilities and you need a dedicated water-mon slayer.Playing Gen 4 or later? Physical and Special split made it so almost all mons are viable, just make sure they have good moves for their stat distribution and your good to go.>no xp shareXP share makes Gen 1-3 harder most of the time. You only actually need 1 or 2 pokemon anyway other than your HM slave.>mandatory hmsSee above.It's an RPG, you have to think about things you do and why you should do them. That's where the fun comes from. If you just wanna watch cool animations and feel like your pokemon is a badass, just play the newer games.
>>56699824>>56699406>>56697387>>56696240>>56695513Imagine the gay fatass who avatars behind these shitty posts
>>56693194FPBP. I just tell him they were pretty shit, but the new games are pretty shit too.
>>56693246just adding on to the other anons that you're wrong, my first game was Sapphire, before Emerald even came out. 27. I barely make the cutoff for being a zoomer, but I am.
>>56694203Linoone and Furret are goated af and will always have a slots on my team when playing their games
>>56695513Just have each town have a licensing facility in each Pokémon Center where some old faggot Ranger teaches ur Mon the field move, having it be a permanent addition to the Mon itself.Give it a shitty 5 sec training montage and boom. HM learnt
>>56702219Gen 1 does not need an HM slave, high special mons, coverage mons nor high attack/speed mons.Gen 2 does not need any of those thing either, nor does it need hold items.Gen 3 does not require any of those, nor does it require you to pay attention to Abilities nor do you need a dedicated water-slayed.Turns out that you don't need to put any kind of effort into building a team because the game is for literal toddlers.
>>56693246Most zoomzooms grew up with emulation, and RSE/FRLG were the first games anyone learned how to emulate, along with the numerous romhacks that were popping up. It's def a part of the average zoomers childhood
>>56702219>Sometimes I get annoyed with Pokemon and Pokemon fans because people just refuse to admit it's like any other RPG.that's the thing, pokemon fans don't even like videogames. just look at the average romhack
I'll never understand how people can defend switch training, that shit is so boring
