I don't get it. What the FUCK was their problem? What the FUCK was their motive? They got bulled so they quit school because of what some NEET said to them on the phone or something?
>>56757901A plot so well written that literally the entire staff of the school had to be replaced in the background or else it would implode from plot holes on the spot
>>56757901Basically:>They all get bullied for various individual reasons.>Bullying is covered/ignored by the then School administration.>Penny contacts them through Email to form Team Star out of the bully victims with the goal of getting the bullying to stop and never meets them face-to-face.>They prep the shit like Star Mobile so they can beat up their bullies/Whistleblow by being so bombastic their situation can't be ignored anymore.>The day of reckoning comes and Team Star post a public challenge to their bullies.>Bullies freak the fuck out and their and the schools cover-up are uncovered.>Bullies resigns/switch schools, School Faculty is completely replaced by the ones we have in the game, the new staff are not told the complete story of what happened to cause the restructure for ???? reason.>Penny takes the blame on the behalf of Team Star and is suspended for 2 years.>Team Star don't like this and become slackers who don't attend class while waiting for their leader to return.>Because the new faculty wasn't told they think Team Star was an actual gang, not helped by new members pressuring new students to join (Including their actual Leader when she returns) due not actually knowing why the team was formed.>Penny sees how the Team gone off the rails while she was gone and Clavell gets pressure to just expel the whole team and everyone related to them and decides to investigate because them and their behavior reflects poorly at the school.>The in-game Team Star Plot happens.
>>56757901The plot was literally just the dipshit delinquents were wronged once, so it's okay that they act the way they do, they aren't actually villains, just misunderstood.If you're asking any questions beyond this flat statement of concept, you're thinking about it more than Game Freak did, and will find no answers.
>>56757901I hate the plots in the new games I want to save the world again
>>56757901
>>56757901>What the FUCK was their problem?Way back before the year started the academy had a severe clique problem. Those who were 'in' bullied those who were not. Penny wanted to start her own clique to gain some respect so she wouldn't be afraid to leave her dorm room anymore. Everyone else got bullied in different ways and signed up for the cause. Kids are cruel, Jack.>What the FUCK was their motive?To gain respect. They wanted to make a big show of it, they prepared stages and costumes, practiced battling and acting, they were gonna debut as the new them. Only it had the opposite effect to what they wanted; they wound up intimidating the students in the more popular cliques into dropping out of school entirely. Penny took the blame for that, then the administration tried to cover it up and it turned into a giant mess with the entire teaching staff resigning in shame for allowing it to happen. >They got bulled so they quit school because of what some NEET said to them on the phone or something?Penny's "punishment" was to spend a year and a half in Galar with her family, to give her time to reflect and relax after the craziness that happened. The Team Star bosses, more loyal to Penny and their clique than they were to the school, holed up in their bases to await Penny's return. But by the time she did return they had gotten so far up their own asses they wouldn't listen to her anymore. That's why she recruits you to defeat them, and then her; so she can finally put this whole embarrassing thing to rest.
>>56757901Yes they are retarded and should be bullied more. That's the story. The happy ending is that Pennys is Geeta's code monkey slave now.
>>56758281>>56758237Embarrassing. Games went from STOP THE UNIVERSE FROM BEING OBLITERATED to "wow guys Slytherin amiright haha"
>>56758316That's one of the three subplots. The overarching plot of the game is the region's Pokemon Professor went mad, built a time machine, connected it to the distant past/future/Terapagos' imagination/alternate timelines and mass summoned psychotic and aggressive invasive species from that alternate place to ours, and now they're threatening to spill out of containment and overrun the region. With the three friends you made along those subplots you have to stop the professor's machinations before the Paradox Pokemon rampage out of control.
>>56758328Bill built a time machine back in Johto, couldn't they have asked for some fucking notes?
>>56758423When a scientist turns into a mad scientist things tends to go off the rails. Also, the professor died in an attack by some Paradox Pokemon. They left behind an android copy of themselves to continue their work, but the android itself wants to oppose the professor, and tries to rebel against its programming, to no avail.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTj1v1sAYXQ
>>56757901They got bullied for being trannies and fags, which comes with the glorious implication that gay bashing and tranny bashing is canon to the Pokemon world.
>>56758316Team star are not really the evil villain. That's the professor IA. He was going to do some shit to the world with paradox pokemon.
>>56758423Bill's Time Machine is only canon to GSC, in HGSS it's been effectively retconned out of the Gen 3-onward rendition of the franchise due to the fact GameFreak saw no point in letting there be a two-way transfer system between GBA and DS games.
>>56758583The AI isn't the villain either, it's a victim of circumstance that's actively trying to break the cycle it was forced into by the late professor's obsession.The closest thing to a true overarching villain is the posthumous will of the professor in the form of Paradise Protection Protocol, which explicitly hijacks the AI to force it to do the professor's bidding, and the 'Raidon who killed the professor, which in turn represents the very real threat the Paradox Pokemon pose on Paldea if the Time Machine isn't stopped.
>>56758281>But by the time she did return they had gotten so far up their own asses they wouldn't listen to her anymore.That's not it, Penny just didn't want to confront them and tell them to quit it in the first place. The Team Star admins had never seen her face to face, they only knew her online as "the boss". Then Penny returned to school and saw the current situation, and figured the best way to stop them while saving face was roping the player character into beating them up into surrendering as per the code they followed.It's really dumb.
>>56758617The paradise Paradise Protection Protocol is the professor's true will. That's why it comments on Arven after it was defeated.
>>56758316You're right, what a drastic improvement
>>56757901That thread>NO NO PLEASE DO NOT SAY IT>oh fuck.. she said itGod bless that OP
All right, here is how you fix this shit ass plot.>Harrington (the former director), was a scumbag who only cared about the Academy's reputation>He knew that there were cases of bullying, but he made sure they were never officially acknowledged. He doesn't give a single shit about his students, he only wants the Academy to be internationally renowned and shit>the Team Star shit happens, they know Harrington is ignoring all of this so they want to make themselves impossible to ignore to show the world that they got bullied at the Academy>Harrington fucking panics, he banishes the mastermind (Penny) back to Galar, forces all actual bullies to immediately change schools and deletes all records about the whole incident>goes full on memory wipe to preserve the school's prestige at all cost, fires the entire staff including himself and replaces itThere you go. All you have to do is to make the culprit evil so it doesn't just boil down "oh nooo this is just all a huge misunderstanding haha whoopsie sorry!"
>>56759753Oh yeah, and they should've shown the actual fucking bullying, even just in an indirect way. Something like Giacomo got beaten the fuck up, but Penny hacks the school and finds out that the records only say that he got on a "Pokémon battling accident" or something because the former staff covered up accidents like that.
>>56759783>accidents like that.I meant *incidents
>>56759753That's a very cool idea. You can easily work that into the actual plot and it wouldn;t change anything. Maybe Harrington was lying about there being a misunderstanding to cover his ass? It's a very interesting proposal.
>>56759753>>56759783Permission to steal this headcanon?
>>56759753I don't think the Team Star plot was as bad as some people said but this is the perfect way to expand on it and make it absolute kino
>>56759792Yeah, pretty much. It just doesn't make sense the way he explains it in the game, things don't line up. If he was lying, it would explain a lot.>>56759799Sure thing anon, spread the word.>>56759802It's kinda frustrating because it's literally just THAT easy to fix it, yet they fucked it up.
>>56759812>It's kinda frustrating because it's literally just THAT easy to fix it, yet they fucked it up.I feel that for a lot of plot or lore elements desu, Team Star just being the lastest in the series
>>56757901Penny worked them into a shoot.
>>56759753By the way, this would also explain how Arven went through heavy child neglect through most of his life without anyone noticing.
>>56759812>If he was lying, it would explain a lot.Considering the severity of the situation, I wouldn't put it past him.>Sure thing anon, spread the word.Thanks. Pokémon Scarlet and Violet has been my current hyperfixation for months now, and I'm always looking for ways to expand on the story and characters. The Team Star story has always been my least favourite (although I love Penny, I've only recently come around on the Team Star bosses), but your ideas sound fantastic. Thanks for that.
>>56759824Holy shit, you're right. It all makes sense now.(Btw, if Peony ever met Harrington, he would beat the shit out of him without a second thought.)
>>56759753When I reached the Blue Berry Academy and saw that chairman with Alzheimer, I seriously thought he was Harrington but he was pretending to be retarded to cover his ass
>>56759858KEK, that would've been kino.
>>56759753>>56759802>>56759812What you're suggesting would make the plot clear and sensible, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it makes it "good". As I see it, the biggest problem with Starfall Street is that most of the important shit happens in the past and the player character is only present to do cleanup in the present. Discovering what happened to Team Star is not presented as a compelling mystery, it's just something dumped on you after you defeat the ringleaders and force them to attend school again.
>>56759438>Penny just didn't want to confront them and tell them to quit it in the first place.She DID contact them, and she said they refused to disband when asked. They were too stubborn and caught up in their pasts to the point that they were sacrificing their own presents and futures. Penny couldn't issue orders, and defeating them herself was pointless because she was the boss, it wouldn't change anything. It had to be someone else.
>>56759937It definitely needed more interesting "breadcrumbs" to be really depicted as a mystery. The reveal being that the previous director was a fucking scumbag would at least be a bit more shocking and thus more interesting than "it was just a misunderstanding lol" which was the most milquetoast shit. And as I said, they should've definitely shown how they got bullied, even if it was indirectly like I described in >>56759783I do think the Team Star plotline was the most rushed, and to be honest, it's good that they rushed that one specifically rather than the other two.
>>56759937Maybe it could be fixed with an extra segment where you band up with Team Star and confront Harrington to expose him?
>>56759975>I do think the Team Star plotline was the most rushed, and to be honest, it's good that they rushed that one specifically rather than the other two.True. While the Team Star story could have been handled better, it makes sense that Nemona and Arven's stories would take top priority, especially Arven.
>>56759748I don't get it.
>>56758237I miss when villain teams were about summoning the box legend and not about being bullied.
>>56760833The professor is the real villain, dummy.
>>56760833Actual threatening teams peaked with Galactic and Plasma. Team Flare was exceedingly dumb, so personally I’d rather have teams like Team Star and Skull that are just outcasts
What did each of them get bullied for?
>>56761840Giacomo: former student council president, made up retarded strict rules that everyone hated like maximum hair length for male studentsMela: she's cute, other girls were jealous and picked on herAtticus: autistic weeb theatre kid, literally speaks Shakespearean English and likes to design fashionOrtega: bratty rich kid and a nerd (likes engineering)Eri: was voted class queen, got bullied by the former class queen because Eri is pretty and athleticI know a lot of people think "the girls were bullied cause they were too pretty" sounds like bullshit but teenage girls really do shit like that all the time.
>>56761840Giacomo - being extremely overbearing with rules or somethingFighter girl - being prettier than some other girlsPoison guy - having interests in sewing and/or other feminine activitiesFire girl - I forgetFairy guy - being a prick
>>56761897>teenage girlsYou could even ignore the word "teenage" and it would still be accurate.
>>56761897>Mela and Eri>PrettyLol
All is forgiven because their music is good.
Why has no one brought up the fact that Penny canonically comitted tax fraud?
>>56761956Because it's acknowledged in the game?
>>56761911Some "adults" never truly grow up, yeah.
>>56761961Everything in this thread is aknoledged in the game, yet the fact that Penny is able to casually do what even the Joker doesn't have the balls to try is ignored for some reason. Curious.
Why have we gotten "evil team isn't really evil!" for three gens in a row?
>>56761979>JokerHe got bigger problems, namely getting rizzaped. Afraid so.
>>56761981Evil team grunts have always been incompetent comic relief retards so the evil teams being groups of delinquents committing petty crime makes more sense if they don't ever plan to make grunts more serious
Funny how Peony is related to two people that ran evil teams and did a bad job at it
>>56762020Why is Penny the only one in her family that's white?
>>56758462You got that backwards, the AI is forced to follow the profesor goal but the AI knows that doing so will fuck everything up, basically, the AI is sentient enough to want to stop its programming from carrying out its goal.Thats why it helps you right until the end where the original programming takes over.The point is that the professor is retarded and spent too much time in their work instead of being with their son.
>>56761998>>56761981It worked for team skull because they were both kinda evil and there was an actual evil team at the same time.It also made more sense to have actual misfits that took over towns and houses.Everything after is just a mess.
>>56761981>>56761998They'll keep up the pattern for a couple more gens and then do le epic subversion where the team looks like another group of harmless outcast teens but they're actually trying to unmake reality
>>56757901I just hated it more that they’re taking the “evil” team concept so far up their own ass it has no meaning. At that point, just abandon the antagonistic trope and do something like rival groups in the student body competing, or some rebel underground “league” with its own diy/guerrilla gyms. I assume it’s the type of thing where GF has ideas, but TPCi wants more of the same. So you end up with this pathetic, confused, half-assed shit.
villains then>We want to take over the world and exploit Pokemon for profit and power"""villains""" now>waaah we wuz bullied!1
>>56757901Big Boss...
>>56761979She got "punished" for it, though. She only stole some money anyway.Hackers are actually often employed by governments or tech companies after they got attacked because they have proven to understand security issues.
>>56762036Albino?
>>56762108But there is still an antagonist in SV.>>56762125Team Star are not the villains.
>>56761981Because it's globohomo DEI shit.>nobody is evil we're all one human race let's just understand each other
>>56762036They're all white but everyone except her goes outside enough to get a tan
>>56762329Shut the fuck up, you don't know shit about the game.
>>56762036Have we seen the mom? maybe she's white.
>>56762351Fuck off slop eater.
>>56762450>NOOO don't call me out I just want to spout meaningless buzzwords about things I don't know shit about because I'm a retardKill yourself you waste of oxygen.
>>56761899Fire girl was too pretty
>>56760833then you 1. have shit taste because summoning box legend plots were always bad and 2. are autistic and can't risk change after many gens of the same shit
>>56758316>Games went from STOP THE UNIVERSE FROM BEING OBLITERATED to "wow guys Slytherin amiright haha"and that's bad somehow?
>>56759753>"here's how you fix the plot">makes the situation way simpler so you can have a black and white right and wrong scenario easier for autists to digestI can tell the only fiction you consume is seasonal anime
>>56763077It's not to make it simpler, it's to make it make any fucking sense in the first place.I mean if you really want to you can add another layer of "Oh he was just pressured to do this" or "he really regrets doing it and just didn't know how to solve it" or whatever if you don't just want him to just be a scumbag. That's not even the point anyway.Although I thought it would be fun to make him an awful person because it would make for an interesting contrast with Clavell, who is a genuinely nice man who cares about his students.
>>56758316The game right before SV was about god sending you back in time to stop the universe from being obliterated. Every game having the same plot would get old and would make stopping the universe from being obliterated feel low stakes, which is why most games after Gen 4 pulled back and made the threat regional in scale again.
>>56761981Scarlet and violet is even worse than that.>Team star are just retards>Evil professor is just an AI from a dead professor and both of them aren't bad just obsessed with their work!>Terapagos is just a retarded turtleOnly reasonable plot was the Arven one because was the most grounded one. No idea why people think the writing in this game is all that amazing. It really fucking isn't.
>>56762403We did see her and she is white>Penny doesn't look like any of them though
>>56763223>both of them aren't bad just obsessed with their work!Both of these statements are wrong.
>>56763273Why they are wrong?
>Eri is bullied despite looking like she could crack your skull open
>>56763314A 7 foot tall musclegirl would definitely get made fun of in school irl. If she snaps and hits someone she's confirming that she's a tranny caveman like the bullies say.
>>56763223>Team star are just retardsthis is wrong, the problem with Team Star is that for some reason GF never wanted the player to percieve them as bad so every action in the game just justifies their motives even if they were retarded>controlling big portions of land in paldea and punishing the ones that enter? in reality they just pick flowers there>causing an event that made all the previous teachers to renounce?the teacher that stays with the pink kid literally tells you the team star dindunuffinLusamine buckbroke GF so hard that normal people cannot have bad intentions unless is shit like Volo.
>>56763242Penny probably dyes her hair.
>>56763399>Lusamine buckbroke GFHow so? Did they get in trouble for making her so awful in SM and that's why she was retconned in USUM?
>>56763301The professor is obviously bad. The post-DLC scene at the lake only confirms this as it shows their regret. They're not depicted as good people.And the AI was actually the rational one, it told the professor that they were going too far.
>>56763399>so every action in the game just justifies their motives even if they were retardedSo they are retarded. I know the game tried super hard for me to feel bad for them but I honestly didn't feel anything. The only part that I had any emotion was that I laughed when Geeta turned Penny into code monkey slave. The entire situation could be solved with her and their friends talking with each other. It's so weird. I will say team star music is really good though.
>>56763441>How so?The most common theories I've seen about why they changed her are>people were sad about Lillie leaving>Lusamine was seen as too disturbing, and realistic>GameFreak thought Lusamine had done too much to be redeemed (ignoring that they heavily implied she'd changed in the first place as a result of exposure to Nihilego's venom before the game started)We'll never know for sure. Personally, I think they just changed her for the sake of changing her, because they had to do SOMETHING to make USUM's story different from SM's. It's just that they did it in the laziest, most hackneyed way possible - changing the things she says, but not what she actually does, which caused a domino effect that ruined several other characters like Guzma, Lillie, and Gladion.
>>56763314She's the "gentle big sister type", she just likes to act intimidating cause she likes wrestling or something.>>56763331I had a female friend who was 188cm (6'2), can confirm. Both girls and guys bullied her for her height.
>>56763445If anything the DLC just makes it worse>Ahh yes I have a son>Here is the book>Game events happen anywayGame tried very hard to make professor just look like an autist. But Arven had every reason in the world to hate them.
>>56757901Kissing Giacomo's forehead
>>56763474You misunderstood the story.The fact that the professor gave away their book means that the game events cannot happen in their timeline. The book was the key to the time machine, which means the professor of our timeline never gave their book away, despite also meeting a child at the lake.
>>56763451>So they are retarded. I know the game tried super hard for me to feel bad for them but I honestly didn't feel anythingthat's because team star did more harm than good and GF always wanted you to have simpathy for them.>The entire situation could be solved with her and their friends talking with each otheryes, the entire reason of the starfall storyline is because Penny felt guilty about the creation of team star and she believed you shitting up their bases would turn things to normal.
>>56763499>The fact that the professor gave away their book means that the game events cannot happen in their timeline.I thought it was supposed to be a paradox
>>56763520The postgame scene confirms that there's multiple timelines, not a timeloop or paradox or whatever.>But they said Paradox mons are from our timeline!Translation error. The original Japanese text always implied that paradox mons are from other timelines.
>>56763546As always translation being the worst of our problems
>>56763570It's really embarrassing in this context. The Western fandom has been discussing and speculating about the lore for years cause shit didn't make sense while Japs always understood what's going on. It's fucked up that they never bothered to change it either, especially cause the DLC gets it right.
>>56763242My headcanon is that Peony's wife was married before, and Penny is from her first marriage. Or she could be adopted, or she's just one of those people who's really pale when she doesn't go outside.
>>56763635Or >>56762272She even has grey eyes so it would check out
Being Peony is suffering>His daughter doesn't respect him and is retarded>His brother Rose is just retarded>Was mindraped by an ugly deerHe is such a nice person by the universe hates him.
>>56764217The main reason I hate Penny is cause she's so awful to Peony. I hope Arven beats some sense into her.
>get bullied at school>thus don't wanna go to school anymorethis is a plot point too difficult for OP to understand
>>56763242Melli from PLA might be Penny's ancestor (on her mum's side, most likely), since their eyes are the same and their hair is the same shade of blue.>>56763421I personally headcanon that it really is that colour.
>>56759680Does it? I don't remember that
>>56764396>Melli from PLA might be Penny's ancestor (on her mum's side, most likely), since their eyes are the same and their hair is the same shade of blue.It's possible
>>56764416>"Oh... ook...h0w bıg you’və gr0wn...">"5o...p-pr0ud 0f you...ⅿy...">"...s0rry...you wəre ɑlone s-s0...|ong...Arvə—"4chan might butcher the weird glitch shit but yes, it's directly addressing Arven. The PPP is basically just the professor at the height of their insanity.
>>56758316>Games went from STOP THE UNIVERSE FROM BEING OBLITERATEDI'll be honest, literally anything is better than DPPt Team Galactic. They are, objectively, the stupidest fucking enemies in the entire series. Cyrus at least has a motive. Everyone except him is just cartoon evil for the sake of it. They have ZERO motive to do ANYTHING Cyrus says. At best you can try and twist your interpretation to be that they're a cult but the game doesn't lean into that at all.Team Star could take a shit on the front gates of the school and do nothing else and it would be a more interesting villainous team than fucking Galactic.
>>56762351rude>>56762509you first
>Penny's fight didn't use Eveelutions of the Team Star leaders' types, including potentially new onesAbsolutely fucking wasted opportunity.
>>56764396>>56764528Explains why Penny is such a bitch too.
>>56763482Giahomo...
>>56768763I wish
>>56757901>bunch of kids gets bullied.>they team up and make their bullies shit their pants.>Meanwhile the entire staff of the school gave up and left, with replacement guy having absolutely zero clue about entire drama.>Team Star as every fragile and emotional teenagers felt hurt and assblasted by school staff taking no action against bullies and decided to become slackers and mess around.>Due to this and their sheer loyalty to each other they could not give up even if the threat of being expelled was looming over their heads.>The only one with some sense was Penny but even she was not willing to tell her friends that she's not super-cool gangsta boss and they should just leave and go back to school.>So she needed (you), a pretty good Pokemon trainer to tardwrangle entire Team Star using the loophole in their code of conduct.>And so happened that the clueless director heard phone call between you and totally-not-penny and decided to dress like a retard and investigate.Adults being irresponsible and clueless, teenagers being retarded, everybody wanted good but nobody had will and/or information about what to do. Literally the entire drama could end if any of the involved parties would just decide to fucking talk with each other.
>>56768877Seems accurate to reality if you ask me
>>56768884It's definitively pretty realistic but dunno, cheap teenager drama is lame. People play rpgs and generally consume fantasy media to not live through the same shitty drama as irl. If there was some cool climax to that storyline but no - Penny explains that she is Casiopeia, her and her team of eeveelutions get fucking smashed into pavement of the player, her "underlings" are okay with her being a smelly shutin and cheer her up and they even all get neat job offer from the school because fuck responsibility.
>>56761897why are girls like thismen never try to attack chad
>>56768963Because Chad can beat the shit out of you if you shittalk him. Girls lack physical strength and are scared of fighting, so it's all about psychological warfare.
>>56768973>scared of fightingidk i've seen tons of catfights back in the day
>>56768985Catfights are not real fights. There will be some scratched and broken nails but no one gets actually injured.
>>56768992>two-way girl-on-girl ryona with potential lezzing out and also no one gets hurtCatfights sounds amazing
>>56769005Ok, calm down, coomer-kun. That's not what happens either.
>>56769014:(
>>56758617>>56759680>>56764536Something interesting that one of the comments on that YT video of the battle theme against the PPP is that, after being taken over by the program, the dialog box changes from AI Sada/Turo to Professor Sada/Turo. As in, the will acting through those robots is how the real professors would have in that situation.
>>56769326Yep, and there's also "Professor Sada?" The whole ending is pure kino desu.They really made it seem like the prof had legit schizophrenia or some shit and had an "evil side" they struggled to control until they succumbed to it.The game also keeps the time of death of the professor very ambiguous. Arven said his parent stopped contacting him a couple of years ago, but we don't know if that's cause they died then or because they went full schizo.>Team Star plot is so boring that we start talking about the other plot in the game insteadLol
>>56758328>Terapagos' imaginationkys faggot this has already been debunked
>>56769387It's the only piece of story worth a damn in this game.>waaahh bullies bad>standard Badge Quest, complete with R63 Hau to annoy you along>muh Hachiko-esque sad dog story>lmao masks also oppsie we did a bad>one long emo tantrum due to a lack of protag diff
>>56758244>the dipshit delinquents were wronged once, so it's okay that they act the way they do> okay that they act the way they do> the way they do... what they do exactly?
>>56769456Nemona is nothing like Hau.
>>56770031>overly excited>uncomfortably friendly>crops up all the time along the way>does fuck-all in the plot, just battles you here and thereThe only reason that I'm not equating her to Hop is that Hop is just Discount Hau in the first place.
>>56770075Hau is not overly excited, he's very laid back. A bit too much even.99% of Pokémon characters are overly friendly. You can even call Nemona out for it.Rivals always crop up along the way, that's literally what they fucking do.She has her own plot, plus you need her to go to Area Zero.Hop also has very little in common with Hau.
>>56757901The whole plot was stupid and they deserved to be bullied
>>56757901Why didn't Dendra just beat the shit out of them? Seriously, she should have just headlocked Giacomo for a bit and they would probably stop.Maybe not Eri, but pretty sure Dendra would win in a fight
>>56761956Very common in Spain
>>56770451There's friendly and there's "push my friendliness in your face" friendly. Hau and Nemona are the latter, though not the only ones.As for rivals cropping up, yes, but her is reminiscent of the shit X and Y pulled, and I don't think I need to say why that's annoying as hell.>Hop also has very little in common with Hau.I could look up and post one of the several webms where they literally reuse Hau's animation for Hop, but I don't really care enough about arguing to go looking.
>>56770496The XY rivals didn't even do anything so that comparison falls flat. They were annoying cause they had extremely one-dimensional characters and constantly sucked your dick for no reason cause they are immediately established as your best buddies. No one would've minded them showing up if they weren't such boring characters, and ugly on top of that in Tierno's and Trevor's case.Also reminder that you can always say "No" to Nemona until you are forced to say "Yes" to progress, which implies that the MC "befriends" her only begrudgingly. Again, Nemona being too forward is literally acknowledged, and it's presented as a flaw of hers.>They reused one or two animations, that means they are literally the same characterCome the fuck on now. Don't be ridiculous.
>>56770694I didn't mean they were the same character *because* of the animations, it's just one more thing to point at. They're both friendly, slightly annoying "first friend" characters that start out good-naturedly interacting with you, with something to prove by comparing themselves with an older, successful relative that get more and more frustrated the more they lose against you throughout the story, finally conceding at the end that they aren't all that and finding contentment with their lot. They both serve the quintessential sidekick role in the matters of the game's plot, contrasting some rude asshole who you two run into that also mellows out a bit at the end. They form the "main trio" with the player and the designated girl character (Lillie and Sonia or Marnie).It'd be pretty disingenuous of me to equate the characters JUST by animations, but that's just because it's the quickest thing to point out, but they both play the same role in the story too, only Hop is done worse and, since he comes after, is less original by consequence.
>>56758316>Games went from STOP THE UNIVERSE FROM BEING OBLITERATEDThere was literally only one game like that and it was the game everyone agrees jumped the shark.
>>56770895>They're both friendly, slightly annoying "first friend" characters that start out good-naturedly interacting with you, Every rival sincr gen 3 does this.>with something to prove by comparing themselves with an older, successful relative Hau doesn't care much about that, it's mostly Hop's thing.>that get more and more frustrated the more they lose against you throughout the story, finally conceding at the end that they aren't all that and finding contentment with their lot.Hau doesn't do this. He doesn't get frustrated at all.>They both serve the quintessential sidekick role in the matters of the game's plot, contrasting some rude asshole who you two run into that also mellows out a bit at the end. They form the "main trio" with the player and the designated girl character (Lillie and Sonia or Marnie).Gen 5 does this too, so why is Cheren not "the same" as Hop and Hau?>but that's just because it's the quickest thing to point out, And that's bullshit. You shouldn't need to point it out at all cause it's meaningless. You wouldn't call Lance and Red the same character if they shared an animation.>but they both play the same role in the story too, only Hop is done worse and, since he comes after, is less original by consequence.Hop at least has something resembling a character arc, unlike Hau who is just "dude malasadas lmao". Not that Hop is a great character either but they tried something at least.And yes, they all play a similar role because they are a rival character. It's what they do in the game. Is anyone saying thay Milo and Brassius are the same characters cause they are early game Grass gym leaders? No, cause that's fucking stupid./vp/ only says that Hau, Hop and Nemona are "the same character" cause they're brown. And even that's a stretch because Nemona looks tan rather than naturally brown skinned. All their similarities are very superficial. So stop parroting /vp/'s dumbass rhetoric.
>>56771281>Hau doesn't care much about that, it's mostly Hop's thing."So you and me both beat that Totem Pokémon, huh, <player>? Looks like we're getting pretty strong! But I wonder if I'll ever really be able to beat my gramps at this rate...""Heh heh, right...""I may not be as strong as my gramps, Hala... But I can still raise up <rival's first partner's first evolution Pokémon> and the rest of my team to do their best!">Hau doesn't do this. He doesn't get frustrated at all.Upon being defeated"It's hard to be strong enough to admit that you're weak... you know?"After battle"Seriously! This is really frustrating, you know? I seriously tried my hardest, you know? But at least I had a blast going all out against you, <player>. So thanks.""Ugh... Battles you can't afford to lose aren't any fun...">Gen 5 does this too, so why is Cheren not "the same" as Hop and Hau?I personally don't like Gen 5, so I don't pay too much attention to it. Best I can give ya.>And that's bullshit. You shouldn't need to point it out at all cause it's meaningless. You wouldn't call Lance and Red the same character if they shared an animation.Lance's not a selective mute, stone-faced mountain hermit, no. Hard to confuse one for the other.>Hop at least has something resembling a character arc, unlike Hau who is just "dude malasadas lmao".I didn't say Hau wasn't Malasada Kid, I'm saying Hop doesn't even have that.>So stop parroting /vp/'s dumbass rhetoric.I've thought this since all the way when the trailers dropped and SwSh were new.It's fine if you want to like Hop andor dislike Hau. I personally think they're the same character, but that's just me.
>>56758316>thinks 8 straight generations of the pokemon world resting on the dog fighting capabilities of a 10 year old is good story telling
>>56771281>so why is Cheren not "the same" as Hop and Hau?Because Cheren and Bianca weren't the obnoxious>HEY FRIEND I LOVE YOU LET'S BATTLE>AWWW MAN I LOSTtypeThey both had very distinct personalities and character arcs. The closest similarity to any other rival is with Bianca in that her arc is similar to Sally's and even then Wally's barrier was his own illness and not his family but I digress.
>>56771466Hau: "Haha my gramps is strong :)"Hop: "Aw man, how am I gonna beat Leon if I can't even beat you? I need to try harder :("Hau: "Haha this is a bit frustrating but I had fun :)" [he unironically smiles through all of the dialogue you're quoting iirc]Hop: "This battling thing is actually not for me. I should try to find my talent somewhere else">Lance's not a selective mute, stone-faced mountain hermit, no.And Hop is not a carefree happy guy who loves malasadas.>I didn't say Hau wasn't Malasada Kid, I'm saying Hop doesn't even have that."Malasadas yummy :)" is more / a better personality than "my big brother is a really strong trainer I look up to and I hoped to stand up to him one day but appear to be unable to which frustrates me"? Hau is the worse one here, dude.>I've thought this since all the way when the trailers dropped and SwSh were new.Everyone said it at the beginning because "muh reused animation", but people who actually played the game quickly noticed that they don't have much in common. Honestly, the fact that both have a 3 letter name starting with H certainly does not help. This one is on Game Freak.Anyway, so why did you throw Nemona in there too?I dislike both Hau and Hop for what it's worth, but at least they tried something for Hop. Hau felt like he was there cause "we must have a rival character". They should've cut Hau and focus more on Gladion imo. What a pointless character.
>>56771603>>HEY FRIEND I LOVE YOU LET'S BATTLE>>AWWW MAN I LOSTThat's pretty much what they did though, especially Bianca. Cheren was just chuuni about it.
>>56771940>"Malasadas yummy :)" is more / a better personality than "my big brother is a really strong trainer I look up to and I hoped to stand up to him one day but appear to be unable to which frustrates me"?Now who's being disingenuous? You can just as easily say:"I try to be chill and relaxed but being a Kahuna's grandson puts a ton of pressure on me given this is our culture/way of life, and I keep worrying I'm not gonna measure up" vs. "Leon stronk :)" Both can be reduced to their basic traits.>Anyway, so why did you throw Nemona in there too?Because she's still that happy-go-lucky person who keeps pestering you for battles all the time while you go about your badge/trial business, except girl this time. She plays the exact same role for the player, complete with "jerk (at least at first) guy" - Arven - and "girl" - Penny.Still, we've both got our takes on it. Glad to at least have been able to discuss this more or less civilly, for this place at any rate.
>>56759783That's the problem with the entire game. The writers never learned the "show, don't tell" rule. There are so many points where this is obvious and could be easily fixed.>have the player encounter the Charcadet that Mela used to care for at school>other students have tried to cheer it up but for some UNKNOWN reason it's always depressed>voilá, suddenly the scene where Charcadet shows up after beating Mela isn't a total ass pull and the player gets an Aha! moment
>>56772083Anon, they can't show what they're not able to program. Small indie-size team, remember? The best they can do is a fade to black + teleport for Fly and hide anything that requires more than a robotic baked animation and an implied action, like when one character "hands" something to another.They are far too inexperienced and underfunded to make cutscenes any more complex than that. Plus, they need to prioritize what to spend their crunch time on, like performance and Charizard's face.
>>56772057But Hau DOESN'T worry. He doesn't feel any pressure. He's just chill. He smiles through it all no matter what.And Hop doesn't just think that Leon is strong. It's mostly about his own feelings of inadequacy, not about idolising him.>Because she's still that happy-go-lucky person who keeps pestering you for battles all the time The other two don't pester you, though. She's she only one who pesters you about battles - and that's literally depicted as her FLAW, not something good or normal. Arven literally calls her a pest, and her postgame event shows that other students are avoiding her cause of her battle autism. She's actually kind of lonely despite her seemingly happy attitude.>She plays the exact same role for the player, complete with "jerk (at least at first) guy" - Arven - and "girl" - Penny.Again, that's not a bad thing, that's just how rivals work structurally since like gen 5. Just how there's 8 gym leaders, an elite 4 and a champ. Nobody complains about that, why is the rival structure suddenly bad for following a basic pattern?>Still, we've both got our takes on it. Glad to at least have been able to discuss this more or less civilly, for this place at any rate.Same. I'm mostly annoyed at the "Hau and Hop are *licherally* the same character!" takes I've been seeing ever since the trailer released. It's been several years and people still say it despite being based on totally meaningless shit (namely the reused animation, their names and their skin color). And now people are saying the same about Nemona which makes me roll my eyes even more. I just wish people would actually think about it more critically and looked at the bigger picture. Which is a huge ask cause most people who complain about Pokémon all day don't even play the games.
>>56772145I know you're being sarcastic but it wouldn't even require a cutscene. Just have a room full of Pokémon and one lonely Charcadet sitting in a corner. Talking to the NPCs (or 1 NPC if that is too much work) will give you the information that they fail at cheering it up. Storytelling through gameplay. They've done this in the past, why are they suddenly too retarded?
>>56771959You're the only one who believes that they're anything like Hop and Hau.
>>56772150Well, I'm done discussing the three pests (sorry, just one more for the road), but the one thing I will address:>Again, that's not a bad thing, that's just how rivals work structurally since like gen 5. Just how there's 8 gym leaders, an elite 4 and a champ. Nobody complains about that, why is the rival structure suddenly bad for following a basic pattern?Maybe nobody else complains, but I do. I don't mind the concept in itself, but I hated how it was executed in Gen 5 (on which I admittedly have a negative bias but the annoying hanger-ons were part of it), hated it in Gen 6 because the Loser Squad is literally the worst and hated it going forward exactly because there hasn't been any innovation. It's been same-y and stupid since Unova, so yeah, I'm bitching about it.
>>56772145Honestly, the fact that their presentation is still REALLY lacking is even more grating now that there's a bigger focus on story. The writing in SV is good overall, but the presentation is largely so goddamn ass that it's often hard to take seriously. Shit like characters turning in place by shuffling their feet awkwardly instead of just turning their upper bodies, or yeah the animation when they give you something. It's just all so bad, stiff and amateurish. And it's even more noticeable now when it actually looks kinda decent in cutscenes. They really need to work on this shit, it's easily one of the worst aspects of SV, right after the graphics and performance. The only thing they did mostly right is the camera. They showed a decent understanding of interesting angles and had some "advanced" camera techniques like dolly zooms. I liked that.
>>56772145>The best they can do is a fade to black + teleport for FlyThat's literally how fast travel works in every game.
>>56772212>The only thing they did mostly right is the camera.Reminds me of when I saw a video where someone used tera and the camera literally clipped into the floor when doing the standard camera pan. Terrain was basically flat, too. I think it was Larry's "Gym"?>>56772213Up to Gen 7 they gave you a little animation for it. Hell, in ORAS you could use your Eon Flute to actually physically Fly places, though it was less convenient in trade for the immersion. It wasn't map menu > fade to black > loading bar > appear at destination.
>>56772254>Up to Gen 7 they gave you a little animation for it.Anon, having an animation doesn't change the fact that it fades to black and has to load in the next area.And again, that's how it works in every game, not just pokemon.
>>56772254Oh yeah no the battle camera is ass too. I meant in cutscenes and when story stuff happens outside of battles.
>>56757901They're theatre kids and were bullied so they digged down in their problems.
>>56772207Gen 6 rival/friend group was definitely the worst by far. I feel like they did try to innovate there and failed colossally. I'd rather have 3 Hops than one Tierno desu. God I hate that obese freak so much.
>>56772276At least they could give some animation instead of just BLACK SCREEN and "there you go."
>>56772276I'm not saying things have to mechanically change, I'm saying their presentation is slipping. They used to care enough about making the world cohesive that they showed your mon (or a representation of it) flying off-screen and then touching down at your destination. It was something that made sense and further immersed you into the world, hid the simple mechanism in the background and showed something more organic all in one. They cared enough about player experience to do something as simple as that.Now it's become something cold, lifeless and "video-game-y". Just a bunch of menus and bam! I'm not saying Pokémon has to be different than other JRPGs, but it's the fact that they used to care about small stuff like this and have since *regressed* in their world-building (even though Pokémon gets bigger and more lucrative as time goes by) that really grinds my gears.
>>56772254To be fair, I can't be the only one who hated the animation every time you fast traveled in SM with a passion. And the battle cam is so bad I refuse to believe they didn't catch it in testing. The clipping happens way too often. They 100% knew it was an issue and shipped the game anyway.
>>56772212>The writing in SV is good overallJudging by this entire thread, it really isn't.
>>56757901This was honestly the most ASS theme of all of Pokémon, they were so fucking lame and of course they had to pull the shitty "we actually aren't the bad guys" shit, hell, they could have been some rival school bullshit trope the japanese like to useIf the next bad guy team is another "we are not the bad guys" shtic I would... do absolutely nothing, it's a shitty videogame but I would be very disapointed
I can't decide which is the dumber story between this whole Team Star crap and teh SwSh pajeet who interrupted the championship match because he wanted to solve an energy crisis that won't happen for another thousand years.
>>56772314>and have since *regressed* in their world-buildingThat's an entirely different thing to your complaint since the animations have nothing to do with worldbuilding.After all, there's more worldbuilding in the fast travel system for SS and SV since they both use the same taxi service but the taxi can't use corviknight in Paldea because of Tinkaton.
>>56772338For real. The worst part of SV easy.GF, the "fake funny evil team" was funny the FIRST time with Team Skull.But here, just like in SwSh, there's no real twist villain with an evil plan. Even if "brainwashed" or whatever. Team Star do literally NOTHING to the plot.AI Profs are stucked in the abyss.The true endgame is locked behind DLC (Even SwSh was more of an expansion)
Considering where we are I'd guess that a lot of users here have been bullied in school. Did any of you find the Team Star plot relatable?
>>56772349You'd think that but beyond a side mention (if it's ever mentioned and not just pieced together from dex entries) they're all just fade out > fade in.Also, animations have nothing to do with worldbuilding? Characters acting believable and actually interacting with the world around them properly is a huge part of worldbuilding. You don't think someone going "Hey, I gotta go." then t-posing and sliding away ruins the believability of the world? Or them "Wow, what an attack!" if a mon's model hops in place twice and a particle effect happens on the other side? Immersion is also part of building the world, anon; not the background of it, but selling it as a living, breathing place.
>>56772212>The writing in SV is good overall,No it's fucking not. There's literally one thing that actually works - how the professor and robo-professor are handled - and everything else is "decent idea, abominable execution."
>>56772369>GF, the "fake funny evil team" was funny the FIRST time with Team Skull.The issue isn't repetition - it's that Team Skull was made up of a bunch of losers that were frustrated with how the Trials worked, and were burned by how their society revolves around a system they feel is broken. They weren't just a bunch of dorks; there was a heart to them that their imitators utterly lack. Team Yell in particular is so utterly transparently an attempt to catch lightning in a bottle twice, right down to being a red herring for Macro Cosmos, which is itself just the Aether Foundation again, but without any of the strong writing.
>>56772379No because in true autist fashion I never banded together with other people and did anything about it, I just kept my head down and ignored it
>>56772424Don't get me wrong I love Team Skull.And, do you even consider Macro Cosmos an evil team? They lack a lair. The whole elevator scene was when I realized they didn't even try for SwSh. People only know Yell because they simp Marnie (idk why, she's an average trainer with little to no relevance to the 'Darkest Day' plot)
>>56772379No because I was too socially retarded to make friends even with other outcasts.
>>56758271OMG it's Whis
>>56772807Me FR dude
>>56759981>We could have joined up with a gang of bullied losers turned paramilitary rebel militia to assault an old folks home.We were robbed.
>>56763069NTA but it's pretty dogshit if you don't actually do something to invest the player in the lower stakes. Small scale stuff works are a bread and butter supporting plot but you have to give a fuck and Team Star are just a nuisance you don't really have any reason to give a fuck about.It's a common problem with pokemon games though usually with rivals, that you just don't fucking care if you beat them. They become a checkbox on a to do list compared to actually emulating the desire to see them lose, and "I don't give a fuck or care to see what happens next even this is just a progression trigger" is basically S/V's entire plot.
>>56770451>99% of Pokémon characters are overly friendly. You can even call Nemona out for it.Actually can we talk about this? Because as much as I will absolutely fucking shit on 5-6 for being the beginning of the end, I definitely noticed that around 7 everyone's personality was really bleeding together into the save cookie cutter "Le goofy nice friendly friend man" for like 80% of the characters, by Gen 8 I want to say that describes almost fucking everyone other than Bede, Rose, Rose's pet bitch, Marnie, Marnie's escaped sonic character brother, and that rocktype dick with the hot ice milf mother, and S/V only intensifies it further if not for the fact that there's the "Everyone hates Geeta" thing to help break it up a bit.
>>56773261One reason I like Kieran is because he actually calls you out on this. Why does everybody like me? Why does everything always just work out for me? He's fucking right. There should be characters who actually hate me, who give me reason to hate THEM, something to motivate me and make me feel good about beating them.
>>56773583Which goes to show that Gens 1 and 2 rivals really were the best.
>>56774090Tbh I feel like Barry from Gen 4 doesn't get enough appreciation for managing to seem like he IS your friend and has your back, but is also enough of a dick who talks enough shit that competing with him and beating him actually feels like an accomplishment and something you WANT to do rather than him just being an obligatory speed bump you don't give a single fuck about.
>>56772331Team Star's story was by far the weakest, but also the least relevant. And even then, it was decent for Pokémon standards.
