Everything about Gen 5 and onwards feels like a reboot that fails to capture the original essence of Pokémon, the most obvious things that jump out are the departure in mon design, music design and from Japan as a setting, but it all feels off and there's a thematic dissonance throughout. Take for example the gangs of each game and how their designs fit the theme of the setting and goals of their leaders. Gen1&2 have petty criminals/gangsters which fit their "goal" of being criminal gangsters, Gen 3 has Pirates & Cave dwelling cultists which fits their respective motivation of worshiping either box legendary, Gen 4 has UFO style spacemen that fits the time/space theme. Gen 5 has... PETA knights that are led by guys who look like midieval JRPG fantasy characters? How does this fit their goals of freeing all Pokémon? How do Knights in chainmail fit the very cosmopolitan American setting? At least Gen 6's fashionista villains fit the France setting, even if it doesn't much fit the box legendaries or their goals. All this before mentioning some of the battle gimmicks that were introduced after Gen 4, like mega evolution and other mechanic changes later such as the inability to "catch em all." The series feels like an entirely different beast after 4, and it was probably intentional considering B&W straight up didn't let you catch old mons before the endgame (something B2&W2 heavily overcompensated for by having all the older fan favourites shoehorned in easy to get areas).Plus Gen 4 closes the series off very nicely, with the final dex entries being literal Pokémon gods and if you consider HGSS to be the "last" entries to the series, Red being the final battle, taking you back to your very first adventure in the world assuming you were playing from the very beginning in Gen 1.
BW/2 clears
>>56760658>BW/2overrated
>>56760650black and white was a reboot, dipshit.
>muh feelsdidn't read
>>56760710source?
>>56760650not wrong, desu.gen 1-4 is old pokemon, gen 5+6 is nu-shit, gen 7-9 is just garbage
genwar faggot thread, ignore
>>56763728Thankfully didn't touch any game after gen 6 besides BDSP and thankfully that was just a dumbed down but still faithful chibishit remake
>>56765377Keyed?
>>56765519Depends, are any of the gen 7-9 games actually worth playing?
>>56760650Nah m8 listen to Unova's music.https://youtu.be/mp8se4JEAyghttps://youtu.be/uDifmU95_W4https://youtu.be/9hZ7gYB4E_chttps://youtu.be/lCquWAkx4bs
>>56765519I'm locked.
>>56760650>Gen1&2 have petty criminals/gangsters which fit their "goal" of being criminal gangsters, I mean, in gen 2 they go well beyond the scope of petty criminals trying to force pokemon into evolving. >Gen 3 has Pirates & Cave dwelling cultists which fits their respective motivation of worshiping either box legendary,That's not gen 3 at all. > Gen 4 has UFO style spacemen that fits the time/space theme.Which was jumping the shark.
>>56766669>https://youtu.be/lCquWAkx4bspoor example, it sounds much different to previous pokemon battle tracks. although B&W is a sort of bridge so a lot of the tracks still sound good despite introducing elements of numon music into it
>>56766820>That's not gen 3 at all.Lolwat
>>56764223This, DS era is peak. You can judge the health of a franchise by the strength of its spin-offs and the DS era will forever be unmatched. There is no argument against this, it’s simply a fact. Good spin-offs were on the 3DS too, but they weren’t on the same level. And they simply don’t exist on the Switch, marking Pokemon an ailing franchise.>inb4 “b-but big number good”Go play FIFA and CoD for your big numbers, brand sloppeds.
>>56760650So basically, you haven't actually played any of the games you're shilling OR bitching about.
>>56766820>Which was jumping the shark.That's like, your opinion but it still doesn't address how knights in chainmail has absolutely no relation to militant animal rights activists
Imagine if Gen 5 and 6 takes place in Tohoku and Chugoku + Shikoku? Gen 7 will be where they go overseas for region.
>>56760650>slow as shit>full of ugly nu-mons like Electivire and Magmortar >insane amount of HM use>Shit story and lore
>>56766871Copemaxxing zoomoid
>>56760650Made me drop the franchise for almost 10 years
>>56766889yeah gen 5 did do that
>>56766852>spinoffs are an indicator of a franchise’s health You may be into something anon. I miss Ranger and PMD.
>>56766895That one's shit too, but this thread is about Gen 4
>>56766873>but it still doesn't address how knights in chainmail has absolutely no relation to militant animal rights activistsIt doesn't.But plasma also weren't animal rights activists, they were knights for their king N.
>>56766852>You can judge the health of a franchise by the strength of its spin-offsI dunno, Sonic had a ton of spinoffs in the 2000s.
>>56766841He's right, that was an oras retcon
>>56766914This very well might be the perfect rebuttal but I wouldn’t know because the truth is I have never actually played a single Sonic game in my life.
>>56766852>You can judge the health of a franchise by the strength of its spin-offs and the DS era will forever be unmatched.Eh, gen 3 had better spin offs>colo/xd>channel>pinball RS>MD RB>RangerGen 4 had MD sky but the rest were pretty shit like ranch or BR.
>>56766915>that was an ORAS retcon>replying to pic of 2004 anime series where they're clearly pirates and hood donning magma cultists
>>56766918Much like gen 4 for pokemon the early to mid 2000s was a horrible time for Sonic with only a handful of gba titles being good while the rest, including mainline titles were abject trash
>>56766931>where they're clearly pirates and hood donning magma cultistsWhich they aren't.If you had watched the anime instead of just picking random screenshot you would have known that.
>>56766931>clearly piratesOn what planet are OG Aqua fucking pirates?
>>56766937>>56766940Imagine claiming these guys look nothing like pirates lmfao
>>56766907nothing can be worse than gen 5
>>56766942numon babies can't recognise obvious design ques because they've grown up with overexaggerated designs like the ones in ORAS
>>56766958so n ow you're genwaring can't handle criticism?
>>56766962nothing about genwars you're just completely blind if you unironically can't see how the skull and crossbones water guys wearing striped shirts and bandanas are clearly fucking pirates
>>56766911>plasma also weren't animal rights activists, they were knights for their king N.Their entire outward motivation was free the enslaved Pokémon. What is this cope? Either was Knights have no place in an American setting
>>56766841>>56766942As nice as ORAS Aqua looks why do ginger women tend to become black when redesigned?
>>56766918The 2000s is when Sonic's reputation was arguably at it's lowest. Sega lost the console war, and their multiplatform games like Heroes or Shadow had mixed or poor reception. 2006 was their biggest disaster, and damaged the brand for more than a decade.In an ironic twist of fate, alot of Sonic spinoffs ended up as Nintendo exclusive. Advanced, Battle, Rush, the Storybook games, Olympics.
>>56767007Ginger is an anagram of black, but she's [spolier] Okinawan
>>56767040If she's Okinawan why does she speak English and not Japanese?
>>56766937Team Magma looks more cave cultist in RSE because they're less techy looking and more shady/menacing
>>56760650I get the impression pokemon feels less ‘ubiquitous’ after Gen 4, I guess. Like in the designs, spinoffs, and anime. None of it feels very memorable.
I agree with you OP but using the teams to push across your point is a bad move.Gen 5+ onwards dont "feel" like Pokémon because they're very linear games (moreso than before at least), don't reward exploration as much as before and the focus has shifted from YOUR ADVENTURE to some grand plot you're only a part of with lots of verbiose characters + lots of gimmicks.Now this can be done well. I think gen V did it best because it provides a nuanced antagonist with a decent motivation and there is a lot of care put in the game. Even if you don't like the game you can admit that. I didnt like BW when it came outSince Pokémon now wants to be a "story driven" franchise it should try to write good stories I think SWSH with its tournament plot had a great idea but the execution is completely dogshit. SV is the same. If you want to do a "ponémon school" story you should commit to it
>>56766937>>56766940Are you fucking blind.
>>56764223>>56767138Really makes you wonder which side the jannies are on
>>56767156>>56767142gemeralds
>>56767113>Now this can be done well. I think gen V did it best because it provides a nuanced antagonist with a decent motivation and there is a lot of care put in the game. Even if you don't like the game you can admit that. I didnt like BW when it came outHell the fuck no, Gen VII did that during the brief period post-XY of the series briefly crawling out of its own vomit only to immediately fall back in, but BW is a fucking dumpsterfire.
>>56767161How so?This is the problem with "story games"I didnt mention gen 7 because, like gen 5 people either like the story (for lusamine) or hate it (for lillie and the awful beginning) but you can recognize there is some craft and effort put into it.I think BW is good because it keeps the same plot as any other pokémon with a nice twist at the end and the team make SOME sense given that people have been doing the "pokémon fights are chicken/slave fights" since foreverIt's not amazing but it's ok. I didnt like it at the time because I had just played chrono trigger which is massively superior but it didnt deserve that much hatz in retrospect
>>56767142>>56767156>>56767175Imagine you're the one retard saying team aqua doesn't look like pirates and kveching about people shiting on unova then exposing yourself with these frogposts that contain (You)s to yourself
>>56767176Its villain team is like 5 different fucking concepts at once, being an america PETA terrorist group...who's knight themed with a King Arthur mythos...but also has a religious messianic cult inside of it led by two random women who are worshipped like goddesses themselves...and a JRPG villain who's manipulating the retard messiah who can speak to pokemon but can't figure out 99.9% of pokemon have zero problem with how pokemon usually works, and there's some magic sages who are fucking BAFFLED by and amazed at basic kindness to pokemon for some reason, and also fucking ninjas are here too.It's like if you bombed a clown car with all the random non-complementary shit that's competing to shape the narrative and their role in it resulting in an incoherent mess that drags the plot down.Gen 3 did a huge impressive story in its own right with fucking poke-terrorism repeatedly striking throughout your journey resulting in you needing to save the world and did it down right fucking elegantly, if fairly bare bones. in 3 different versions and even its spinoffs figured out how to really do strong characterization in a plot, big step forward for the franchise, and Gen 4 brought that together with Platinum very tightly for the franchise with a team with a strong personality of being these sneering technologically adept militant idealists, decently memorable characters through out be they Looker and Cynthia or the Galactic Admins, and then had basically the most quintessential core experience to go with that big apocalypse plot. Fucking hell, Wally even had an arc and Barry was basically the perfect balance of "Friendly" and "Smug dick rival" compared to later rivals who just quietly went down to sub-May/Brendan quality.So there's no reason for 5 to have been the shitshow it was.
>>56760650So true
>>56767219>who's knight themed with a King Arthur mythos...but also has a religious messianic cult inside of it led by two random women who are worshipped like goddesses themselves...and a JRPG villain who's manipulating the retard messiah who can speak to pokemon but can't figure out 99.9% of pokemon have zero problem with how pokemon usually works, and there's some magic sages who are fucking BAFFLED by and amazed at basic kindness to pokemon for some reason, and also fucking ninjas are here too.and none of that shit meshes well with the American setting or rest of the game at all lol
>>56767272My point exactly.
>>56767219You make some strong points but, at the same time, I think you're praising gen 3 and 4 waaay too much.Emerald's adventure ( i will use emerald) is very well done in terms of engagement but most of the hijinks done by team magma and aqua do nothing to further their goals (remember the space center attack?). It's cool to kick their asses but it's just filler because we need to kick some goons. I admit it's very engaging and nicely done AT THE VERY END (when you infiltrate their HQs) but let's not use "impressive"But i think you highlights the problem nicelyGen 1-4'stories are barebones because it's supposed to be an adventure first and a plot second.It's easy to project "strong characterization" on their characters because they talk so little (they do have character though)Bianca and Cheren are good rivals and play nicely with the "league" part of the story and their arcs are opposite to one another... but since they talk so much it's easier to fins flaws within them. Just like it's easier to find flaws in BW's story because, for the first time, it's at the forefront.I mean "Wally has an arc" sure... but it stops at the 3rd badge until he makes a big comeback at the endGen 4's galactic plot is the best one and has very little flawq but if you take the time to think about it, gen 3's story is flawed like gen 5 because any retard can understand that too much land/water would be a disaster. But it works because it's goofy and "kept barebones"Anyway your point still stands. Perhaps they should have combined gen 4's plot with gen 5's verbiage and dropped the sage/goddess nonsense to make it tighter I agree.>>56767272You keep focusing on the teams.Another problem with the fact that gen 5+ don't feel "like pokemon" is the fact the regions are like theme parks instead of genuine biomes. Unova is america reduced to the size of a tiny region with things that clash with each other. Alola might be an execption i suppose
>>56767298>gen 3's story is flawed like gen 5 because any retard can understand that too much land/water would be a disaster.We give them a lot of shit, but unlike Gen 5, this is what's sometimes called a "2nd order" violation, the logic only breaks through the second order effects of "And then what?" and looking into and working through the details, which is VERY COMMON for utopic ideologies. "let use pokemon to stop people from using pokemon' is a constant in your face, direct violation that breaks within the first order. you can double think around these but it's much harder particularly if it's blatant and recurring in prominence.
>>56767328>let use pokemon to stop people from using pokemon' is a constant in your face, direct violation that breaks within the first orderI think this is just an illustration of hypocrisy which is very common among extremists (just look at today's shitshow)Anyway my point wasnt to defend BW. My initial point was to tell that if Pokemon wants to do "plot-driven games" from now on then it should do it competently. BW's lore is a bit retarded when you look at the details but the core ideas and their dramatization works well enough and it's one of the best (not that it's saying much) of nu-pokemon. Just the fact that "beating the league" isn't the end of the game but the twist takes advantage of it is nicely done.Now maybe gen V simply shines because even if it's full of flaws it was the last time GF truly tried... alongside gen 7 if you count its plot.TLDR : Make story games but hire good writers. Maybe chunsoft could help? PMD2 has the best story a pokemon game ever had after all, lol
>>56760650B/W was my first pokemon game, and they're great in isolation. I think graphically they're peak pokemon, but that the great sprite animation is wasted on a lot of objective shit/derivative pokemon designs. You can tell a lot of thought and care was put into them, but they could have been truly great if GF had gone with a 'less is more' approach and cut out a lot (cut down on dialogue, rethink team plasma's design language and unnecessary extra characters etc.).If GF had taken the 'complete reboot' of B/W and applied it to the 3d games, those would have turned out better as well. The nostalgia baiting and extra starters in X/Y is awful, for example.
>>56766992>Their entire outward motivation was free the enslaved Pokémon.The keyword being "outward" that had nothing to do with their actual plans.That's like saying Giovanni doesn't fit because he doesn't dress like a casino owner.
>>56767089NTA but they just look like teens in hoodies.
>>56760650Turner and his consequences have been a disaster for pokemon.
I agree to an extent. I don't think Pokémon ever stopped or died as much as it started to noticeably change around Gen 5.
>>56767948Why would your outward appearance indicate your inward plans?
>>56767953most wannabe cultists are teens in hoodies
>>56760650i ain't readin alldat
>>56767411>objective
>>56768221Thanks for reading my post
