Liko bros... is this true? No....
>>56784009Yeah duh, the second her starter evolved you could tell she'll be there only for one generation. No future Pokemon MC will ever be as prominent as Ash.
>Random twitter who thread>Source? Trust me broWhy are these threads still allowed? They go nowhere except in circles.
>caring about some shitty Anime made for kidsKek
It will end after Liko and Meowscarada kiss on the lips.
>>56784025/threadShit like Khuck or Centro the fag wouldn't be be such a cesspool if their shit got nuked on sight
>>56784025Idk, probably are only kept up because they always accumulate (You)s. Otherwise these would've died out a long time ago
>>56784009If it is true I hope the whole cast goes with her. They're all duds, especially that obnoxious looking cunt Roy.Don't call me a Ashfag either, I've wanted him gone since B/W.
>>56784061New MCs won't be any better because the franchise is playing it far too safe now.
makes sense, they're trying to figure out what sort of Pokemon cartoon children want to watchThey'll drop this anime, try something else, drop that, try something elsethe problem is that once children are over 6, they don't have the patience for cartoons, let alone any age over 10. The boys want edgy wish fulfillment revenge porn cartoons and the girls want edgy romance stuffnone of that is pokemon
>>56784009Of course she's getting replaced, her starter is a Gen 9 mon that's mostly likely going to evolve all the way to the shitty waifu cat, so they're leaving her ass in Gen 9 and moving to a new protag in Gen 10. The anime should have been doing this format since the end of Gen 4, hell after Gen 2 they should have dropped Ash, his popularity fell off a cliff after the Pokemania faze went out.
>>56784009They should've rotated protagonists from the start. Ash had no business staying after Johto.
>>56784009>entire story centers around Totally Not Area Zero and TerapagosYeah no shit sherlock, Liko and friends were never meant to last for more than a generation.
>>56784009Duh? The cat was never popular enough to be a permanent MC
>>56784009Guess each new series is going to have a new character? Makes sense from a merch perspective
>>56784127>>56784129>>56784109Why not reset her mons the same way with Ash and send her to the new region?
>>56784123The worst part is they really wanted to do this as early as Hoenn, but Pokemania made him and Pikachu too iconic to drop and they were scared that replacing him would completely kill Pokemon's staying power overseas.
>>56784138because it's a retarded idea and the anime was in a worse state because Assh wouldn't go away
>>56784138Are you seriously falseflagging now?
>>56784064How about some random kid without double colored hair that isn't part of a super special snowflake family?
>>56784138Because her starter isn't the Mascot of the whole series, so she's tied down to Gen 9 also it's not a Kanto mon
>>56784145>Buzzword meltyCalm your tits fag
>>56784144How am I false flagging? They struck gold with liko why get rid of her?
>>56784153She's fine but damn it, after two decades of characters getting blueballed you want the same shit to happen to her too?
>>56784123Fucking This, Jimmy should have been the Protag for Johto, then onto Brendan and May and so on and so on.
>>56784064Yeah that'll probably be the case. I'm mostly hoping the designs for a new cast would be better, outside of Liko they all either hurt my eyes or are just not interesting.
she's literally just selene but worse
>>56784141>kill Pokemon's staying power overseas.The worst part is that it probably would've.
>>56784167I want to live in this reality, I was done with Ash a long time ago
>>56784009That's what Likobros want OP.>>56784061>Don't call me a Ashfag eitherWe will because you're too obvious> since B/WYou were already one by that point anyways.>>56784127Keep in mind that this show is a lot of the fanbase's first anime that isn't the ashnime, which is why people here get confused by basic anime tropes a lot when discussing horizons.
>>56784263maybe for the latinx that self insert as Ash, but while it might hurt a bit I think it would've allowed the franchise to figure out its path a bit sooner instead of using pokemania as a crutch for 20 years
>>56784167Imagine the shitposting>JOBlem LOST CHADlio WONinstead of just "ash job in that region.."
>>56784292There is no difference anon to just what region iteraion lost and which one won
>>56784270>We will because you're too obviousOkay retard.>You were already one by that point anyways.Sorry that 12 year old me couldn't be hyper critical of the Hoenn series. lol By D/P I could tell something was wrong, but it was the first episode of B/W that made it clear as day they had no idea what they were doing anymore.
>>56784323gen 5 was definitely the point where it couldn't be denied they were phoning it in any longerI'd say the gen 3 movies are where the ashime just started turning into an amorphous blob of uninteresting slop, no matter what the ashfags say
>>56784061>Don't call me an* Ashfag eitherI'll call you a Specialspic, your manga is never ever getting adapted.
>>56784064>>56784145>>56784243I honestly never had any hopes for Liko's anime because the shadow of trAshnime would always linger over it. It would always be compared to it, and Ashschizos would never judge it fairly.It would at the same time play it too safe while also trying to be as different from the trAshnime as possible to try to set itself apart from it.I personally thought "nope, this is not gonna be it" the second I saw the meme ship full of OC donut steels and Captain K-K-KANTOOOOOOOOOOOOO pandering. And then a fucking OC donut steel villain organization too. That alone told me it was gonna be extremely unfocused, not helped by the fact that it was also gonna double down on the awful worldwide format of Journeys.I have a slightly better hopes for whatever comes next, since the awkward middle period will finally be over, but if that one is also a dud and keep refusing to truly reinvent themselves then there's truly no hope at all no matter what and it'll come time to admit that the problem was not Ash itself, not that he helped, but that the anime staff is simply nothing but hacks no matter what.
>>56784061>Sango>Dudlmao
Liko >>>> AshAnd by a long, long way. But if it's necessary to change heroes with each new generation in order to continue to have a coherent, drinkable anime, with a scenario worthy of a modicum of interest, I say yes.
>>56784343Nah the Lati@S and Deoxys movies were peak. I just rewatched Deoxys and it's not nostalgia it just is that good. Thoughbeit Ash was a side character in it and could have been replaced entirely with Tory desu.
>>56784376>Meme le heckin' brat needs correction flavor of the month meme girlYes.
>>56784323>Sorry that 12 year old me couldn't be hyper critical of the Hoenn series.I unironically left the show at that age because it was obvious it wasn't about him progressing.Assuming this is true, it doesn't do you much favor.>>56784343>gen 5 was definitely the point where it couldn't be denied they were phoning it in any longerKek-
>>56784370>I honestly never had any hopes for Liko's anime because the shadow of trAshnime would always linger over it. It would always be compared to it, and Ashschizos would never judge it fairly.This makes no sense. Why would a show be bad because ashfags are retards? By that logic Breaking Bad is also bad because ashfags wouldn't get it either.Also, calling your fellow ashfags "ashschizos" wont work either when your "criticism" is clearly so retarded and untrue that it can only come with someone with as little literacy as them.
>>56784422>Why would a show be badI spoke about that outside of fan reception issues too.And fan reception is important too as the reception influences the make of the show. We've gotten double confirmation of this from the recent leaks. So yes, Ash self-inserters and schizos shitting on Horizons because not muh Ash definitively affects the show's production.>Also, calling your fellow ashfags "ashschizos" wont work either when your "criticism" is clearly so retarded and untrue that it can only come with someone with as little literacy as them.What schizobabble is this? I'm not sure if you're projecting or not, either way, you should take your meds before throwing random accusations like that left and right.
>>56784444>I spoke about that outside of fan reception issues too.Aside that all the points were retarded enough to come from Ashfags, no, you didn't. You got to that conclusion in the first sentence by just bringing up ashfags being retarded.>So yes, Ash self-inserters and schizos shitting on Horizons because not muh Ash definitively affects the show's production.Then it'd be about Ash. Also, again, insulting ashfags wont help your case.
>>56784444Nta but the same leaks also included someone who called the idea retarded and the file mentioning them were from August where over 80% of the early pitches are outdated too by now. Shouldn't screaming it's bad because of the absence of a character force them to include said character? But it's been over a year and a half since it aired, more than enough time to make episodes featuring returning characters by that leaked concept roadmap and no signs of that or them listening to the schizoids screaming for his name.
Holy shit I forgot how aggressively obnoxious most of you Pokemon anime fags are.>ASH! BROWN! ASH! SPIC! ASH! ASH! ASH!Not even a disclaimer will get you niggers to shut the fuck up. Thanks for the reminder to never post in anime threads.
>>56784477then post on topic you seething child, what are you having a meltie for? Most of the people here are discussing the future of the anime
>>56784477Kinda funny how even when the only way to get a conversation going is either posting coom or saying how the evil Ashfags are ruining their empty threads in /a/
>>56784459I told you to take your meds, schizo.>>56784463I'm not talking about things like pitches or series concepts, I'm talking about meetings and the like. Those things are objective fact.And we know they've changed things because of popularity and fan reaction as we've seen with Dot's existence.>Shouldn't screaming it's bad because of the absence of a character force them to include said character?The complaints can extend beyond Ash's existence and the lack of him in the new anime since it's brand new series with an entirely new format comparisons with how the ashnime did things will be inevitable.There's a lot of ways to nostalgia pander and play it safe outside of shameless cameos or character returns too. What do you think Friede even exists for? There's a reason he's got a Pikachu and Charizard and not a Bruxish and a Skovet.
>>56784009First time?
>>56784444
>Retardation and Metafagging over a Xitter thread of a user with no track record or credibility>>56784025 is right, Xitter threads are low quality by default. I could make a thread like that too by screenshotting some random who, should it get the same attention too?
Ash is TrAsh
>>56784009Good, who the fuck wants another forever character like Ash?
>>56784584Ash is Gas
>>56784616Gross
>>56784494>Those things are objective fact.>ashfag thinks he knows about objective facts
Good riddanceNothing worse than a coalburner like LikoGlad to see her and Roy get the boot
>>56784663He wont be back though.
new anime every new generation until they hit some kind of crazy popularity jack pot
>>56784506I'm honestly glad they never stuck with Yugi/Atem, because it would make Yugiboomers even more obnoxious than they already are
>>56784686They should've just adapted SV's storyline and expanded on it in ways only a visual medium can show.I'll never understand the anime's obsession with OCs and fanfic storylines and never using the game characters and when they use them they're completely out of character.
>>56784866This, I actually really like the protags that came after Yugi, that's why I wish Ash would have been dropped after Gen 1, he'd probably be received better, but he ended up way outstaying his welcome
>>56784009Honestly it makes me even more optimistic about Horizons because they don't have to shoehorn their adventure continuing for no reason leaving to a completely unsatisfying, bad conclusion
>>56784009I would be fine with that if this didn't mean that Liko's gonna be replaced with someone far worse. She's the only good anime-only character, everyone else is just shit, ugly uninspired shit. She's an obvious exception to the rule. So I don't want her replaced with a shitty diversity hire Ash clone like Roy.Liko looks really cute, and her soft, introspective demeanor is a great fit for an anime that's about exploring the world of Pokemon rather than fucking shit up until you're the very best like no one ever was. She's the one fucking thing they got right in this show.
>>56784866Agree, but its still a shame that you still have "genwunner syndrome" on that IP just because it was the popular one that people started with back in the dayIt took years for people to get over themselves and admit 5Ds was actually great and some are only starting to come around about ZeXal (minus the horrible dub). Dont even get me started on the Rush stigma
Changing MCs every few years is good.
>>56784158She's not a fighter, she's an explorer. So she doesn't have to go the League route, someone else can do that. Maybe throw in a game protag as a supporting role like in the Ashnime, and let them do the League autism while Liko focuses on some larger mystery, kinda like in the current show but more focused.
Meet your next season MC /vp/. He is not the one in the pic but looks clearly similar. Oh, btw cute girls got retconned so you will only see buff """women""" as the female cast for the new season, preasu undastand
>>56784009This is literally what everyone wanted back in the early 2000s with ash how is this an issue?
>>56785235The same with pretty much every criticism Horizon gets. Ashfags haven't watched another show so they can't fathom the idea of a properly defined show having plot progression and character arcs that reach a conclusion.
>>56785235If Liko gets replaced, she will be replaced with some brown rainbow-haired tranny, because that's what this anime does these days. No one wants to see that.
>>56785232I, for one, would love to watch a Pokemon anime with Andrew Dobson as the protagonist.
>>56784009i'd rather NOT have an ash 2.0
>>56785279>she will be replaced with some brown rainbow-haired tranny,You mean like Ash was?
>>56785279>because that's what this anime does these days.The fuck are you talking about?There's a grand total of zero anime series like that this season.
>>56785470First, there was Goh, who was at least tolerable because his design was decent. Then he was replaced with Roy, who is like a far uglier sequel. He's currently being carried by Liko. So what do you think comes after that?
>>56784141>want to stick with Ash>viewers want to see Ash grow for a change>ain't happeningI was done with Ash by the end of his Johto shenanigans, and done with the games after gen 4. They screwed up.
And why not make two different adventures alternating week after week and at some point the two protagonists meet?The soft adventure with Liko or a new female MC and the Pokémon league with a male MC.
>>56785522And how are any of those trannies?
>>56784506Wait a minute, why's the kid from Ape Escape there?
This most likely came up from someone's ass, but it's not unbelievable sadly. The anime is not doing great, and it's not even that people have a bad opinion of it, it's that people aren't even willing to give it a chance. TPC failed to set the initial hype, they took forever to release internationally, and on top of that you have ashfags who refuse to move on.And now on the anime itself, I really like it, and I want to defend it, but for the fandom to move on from Ash the new series had to be really, really amazing, and HZ is good but not amazing.I just hope Liko's arc is allowed to finish without any rushes. To be honest 2026 isn't a bad timeframe.
>>56785625>and on top of that you have ashfags who refuse to move on.What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Now its their fault because they moved on after the thing they were invested leave? That doesn't make any sense, they're not going around telling people to not watch so blaming them is ridiculous, the old audience left and that's what (most) wanted right? So if they're unable to get interest the blame falls on them and not whatever cope of the week you use.And I mean you as in general not some specific poster because for some reason you need to point that out nowadays
>>56785522>his design was decent>>56785625>This most likely came up from someone's assThen its not worth pretending its correct.>but for the fandom to move on from Ash the new series had to be really, really amazingStealth ashfagging. The ashnime was the worst product of the entertainment industry so the standards are non existent.Anything is "amazing" compared to the ashnime.>>56785785>they're not going around telling people to not watch so blaming them is ridiculousYes, they are.
>>56785860>Yes, they are.Burden of proof please, and I don't mean Famon or his copycat samefagging
>>56784009i will watch her anime when she is retired
>>56784009I mean, it was obvious from the start? There's no real personal goal for any of the characters, once this Terapagos/Lucius storyline is done, then what?Also did the leaks confirm the anime's timeline, a few more captures, a familiar face returning and time jump/growing older.
I honestly think they could age the next protagonist up to be like 16Kids will love it anyway, just like everyone loved Yugioh even if 5ds had basically grown adults in the astIt will let the anime have some new "archetype" for a main characterThey are the biggest franchise in existence they CAN afford to experiment
>>56785973>>56784009>>56784061>>56784370>>56785625>NOOO BUT THEY SAY THEYRE NOT ASHFAGSYeah because then it becomes too obvious what they truly want, but they always pretend to have this "neutral" criticism(that just so happens to be as retarded as what an ashfag would say) or claim the show is failing without proof. Its has been a constant in Horizon discussion since it was announced.
>>56786050Holy victim complex, Batman!
>>56786068Sorry to not be as reasonable as the people who water 20+ years of their lives and are mad they aren't wasting more.
>>56784017The second she was paired with a Gen 9 starter, it was obvious. This denial that she was only lasting one generation was basically the Goh denial all over again
>>56784017goodactually have the anime be about the fucking game protags instead of muh ash
>>56785522Goh is shit
>>56785522No, Goh was not tolerable because being based off of Pokemon GO and catching mons so freely whereas Ash had to fight for his life in some instances for his mons is undeserved for him.His easy catching is a fucking shitstain on the anime.
A pokemon anime will never be good, because it will always be soulless. Give pokemon to some other studio without the brand breathing down their necks, and they might actually be able to make something that makes people love it again. But for the foreseeable future it's just going to be the same safe, boring slop as always.
>>56784506Unironically yuma/astral was far better executed yugi/atem since yuma actually grew and had duels by himself at the end of the series instead of just relying on the guy inside him
>>56784009Good, her and her ugly cat can fuck off next Gen, glad they're doing this now, Assh should have been gone a long time ago as well, the Anime in general is a fucking mess.
>>56786556yeah bro you are so much superior posting on a pokemon imageboard
>>56786556This
>>56786592whose mad? you're the one who seems mad
>>56786244This, Goh made Pokemon feel mundane instead of mystical and wonderful
>>56784061Not an Ashfag, but honestly speaking, the staff might end up bringing Ash back for a different role (e.g mentor) while the new Gen 10 MCs that will eventually replace Liko & the gang continues to be the main focus.Yes I know his chapter has ended, but this won't prevent the staff from bringing him back by simply giving him a new role.
>>56787124I hope Ash is dead for good
>>56786179I have yet to see anyone explain this more than just "muh game protags". Like genuinely anon, anything they do with the game protagonist will make them an OC with how blank slate their personalities are.
I hope Roy is dead for good. Unironically the reasons Horizon flopped
>>56784017Ash stopped bringing prominent after Gen fucking 1 his popularity died with Pokemania, his bitch ass should have been kicked to the curve and we followed Gold/Ethan
>>56787201He meant prominent like dysentery: something that nobody in the majority of the world cares about but still effects the uneducated masses in third world shitholes.
Likonime...lost
The fact people thought pokemon was just switching to another infinite protag is just bizarre to me. No shit this was happening, you didn't need leaks to figure that out.Nor the region specific starter, this was the obvious conclusion after ditching Ass.>>56787124That sounds awful. Thats just fanservice for a very niche minority. The Ashime has a bunch of baggage, both in and out of universe.Despite what people say the internal leaks do show that the anime has a bit more freedom than you'd expect. Its not entirely screwed just due to being pokemon.>>56787201Its sorta interesting looking at gen 6/7, they clearly pushed for the anime and then very obviously pulled out upon realizing Ash had been a rotting corpse for ages.I think people had a very "well he was popular once and Pokemon still is super popular so surely Ash still is?" sorta mentality; TPC included.The actual point of death is probably a tad later than that extreme but if Ash was this actual pivotal part of the brand that much later either Pokemon would have suffered much greater drops or the anime wouldn't have dropped as much.
>>56784025Should have been the end of the thread instead of getting dragged out by sheer retardation
>>56784025Woah, you're not supposed to point something important out. You'll piss others off.
>>56786498Yuma was a boring character whose every duel was Utopia Turbo, while his opponents went for effects focused on circumventing or negating Utopia. Yami Yugi at least kept coming up with ridiculous new ways to win.
>>56787301>>56787308Atleast wait a bit longer before replying twice with seethe
>>56784025Kinda suspicious how most other xitter threads are getting rightfully blasted for that fact but this one gets a pass for no apparent reason.
>>56787334Obsessed?
>>56784009Please be true we need a chad male Joseph Joestar type
>>56785625>Ashfags Ashfags AshfagsKek, the seethe.
>>56784506Jaden was by far the best protag
>new anime obviously marketed for a different demographic with a plain jane cute girl for young girls to relate to, despite Roy's (character for little boys to relate to) shared billing the story follows Liko instead>inevitably this will alienate the old fans who remain who cannot relate and have no connection to the characters/story, remember that many of these fans are old dudes who grew up wanting to see what's happening with Ash, meaning must survive its own merits>initial interest and curiosity goes down, then the slow decline either through bad writing or unappealing plot or characters, its original story having to be backed up with the game's plot and setting>schizos get mad at the mythical Ashfags who suddenly have the superpower to tank a series instead of blaming the show for being incapable of retaining viewersWhy is it like this?
>>56787451Seething Ashfag!!! for years they were screaming how Ash was the problem but then reality hit them hard with the fact that Pokémon in general sucks at storytelling so now they need someone to blame for the lack of interest the new series gets
>>56785193Crazy to gas up Liko for these reasons when Goh was better at Liko's game than Liko herself.>introspective >flawed, overthrowing>confidence issues in battle>goal isn't badges and tournaments, but legendsGoh was written better but because he was a balding autistic ten year old boy you couldn't fap to him
>>56787451>meaning must survive its own meritsIt's been over one and a half years and they haven't brought any old character back, seems to me like it's doing fine by its own merits. Besides that, "mythical"? Isn't that a bit gay of a description when threads like Paldean Winds, first anniversary of the Likonime or the recent Poketoons got raided and derailed by them? Does that make them mythical or is this some synonym for something?
>>56787451>its original story having to be backed up with the game's plot and settingNemona and Brassius were a thing since the 10th episode, this doesn't even line up. The initial detractor cope was that no paldean characters would even show up.
>>56787516>The initial detractor cope was that no paldean characters would even show up.That's peak stupidity. Why would anyone actuay even think that? Sounds like they didn't wanted it to have them to later claim that JN didn't fucked up completely with Galar.
>>56787547Yeah it was pretty blatantly just JN cope at the time. I definitely recall this sorta discussion in the leadup. Very weird experience.
>>56786179Based, just make something like Origins or what the name was, but without time skipping and fix some errors, it would be the fucking best.Start with Gen1 up to gen10 and beyond.Make Every Gen like 50 episodes, then when they reach the current gen, keep going until next gen, maybe mix things up with protags from all gens and shit, it could be kino, better than every anime ever I would say.
>>56785625I’m an Ashfag and I’ve moved on. I only watched the anime for him. He’s gone now so I don’t watch the anime. It’s that simple. And given the rhetoric is that Ash isn’t well liked I don’t see how Ashfags could have any significant impact on the success of Horizons anyways. In reality Horizons just isn’t doing enough to stand on its own. It only has any novelty or intrigue in relation to Ash. By being the first mainline long-running anime that doesn’t feature him as the protagonist. So it’s likely that novelty has worn off or wasn’t sufficient in the first place.Why would Horizons be failing without Ash? Probably because the problem wasn’t really him. He was just a symptom. The people behind the anime just suck at their jobs. I’d watch an anime where each season is a different game protagonist and isn’t just kodomoshit but that isn’t what we got.
>>56784009Honestly, I prefer this new approach.More like Digimon ironically.We know no new main character will match Ash in popularity. And I don't want another Eternal Child, like ever.
>>56787201 < The opinion of pretty much everyone on earth, most of TPC included.
>>56787625I believe the anime being on every week is the problem. It needs to be seasonal with more interesting condensed stories
>>56787661Yeah, I can agree with that sentiment. I remember enjoying those Pokemon Chronicles episodes back in the day. That but with a higher budget and more interesting characters would be great.
>>56787625>Horizons just isn’t doing enough to stand on its own. It only has any novelty or intrigue in relation to AsThat's such a dumb thing to latch onto. Weren't leaks showcasing that they were operating based on the reception? If it is only interesting because of the things related to him wouldn't he just show up to get it over with? But where is he then? By any means, if it's doing so horribly or if it's "failing" without him, then he would've been back by now. One year is more than enough to do it and yet they haven't. They saw the reception to Dot and included her more, they should have seen the reception over the absence of a character. I will never understand the claim of "novelty has worn off" for a weekly toy commerical. Don't you have better things to scream about? Like based on the leaks Gamefreak was planning to release Z-A in less than two years which is less than fucking SV? Or them admitting to just playtesting every new feature every gen? And yet the decision falls on a thread which was based on a tweet of a literal who. Like is it someone who has insider information about the anime? Genuinely, what's >>56784009 even based on?
>>56787684Sorry but you appear to be a retard. I never said Ash should be brought back or that he would fix anything. I said he was merely a symptom of the broader issue that the anime is simply produced by incompetent people. Again, the rhetoric is that Ash wasn’t well liked so fans of him not watching the series wouldn’t impact it so why would his fans coming back mean anything?By the way, your posting style is very distinct and is reminiscent of schizos on /x/ or /pol/. Not really relevant but neither is Pokemon Z-A.
>>56787739>Sorry but you appear to be a retardGreat way to start off the argument, really. But you claiming it only has novelty related to him is you contradicting yourself.>By the way, your posting style is very distinct and is reminiscent of schizos on /x/ or /pol/. You are totally a pro and absolutely not a user of those boards you accuse of me if you know so much about them.>Not really relevantThen why bring up? Obsessed moron.
>>56787739>replyingHe's been seething about the super villain group called Ashfags for a while now, even his post exhude a passive-agressive energy, the leaks they love to bring has Ohmori asking if Ash was really the problem and they couldn't answer becase they admited they were lazy faggots and never tried to limit Yuyama and that the real problem being the fact that they couldn't reset Ash again without backlash so he wasn't the ideal choice to bring up a new audience not because the entire world hated him like they love to say
>>56787764>He's been seething about the super villain groupNigga you sound more obsessed with the boogeymans who are seething than what you're accusing them of. Can't you seriously handle a discussion that's based on what was presented without resorting to metafaggotry for more than five minutes?
>>56787754>claiming it only has novelty related to him is you contradicting yourself.You either don’t know what ‘contradiction’ means or are still inserting information that doesn’t exist into my post. Why do most people know about Horizons or Liko? Because it’s the first TV anime without Ash as the protagonist. That is factual. That does not mean Ash would help Horizons by appearing in it. That does not mean Ash shouldn’t have been retired. All that means is that Horizons only appeared in the news cycle because of Ash leaving the anime. And that, as I am arguing, is because Horizons hasn’t done anything noteworthy since then. It hasn’t caught anyone’s attention on a significant scale. > You are totally a pro and absolutely not a user of those boards you accuse of meAgain. Inserting information where it does mot exist. I never said you were a user of those boards. I said your posting style is reminiscent of people who post on them. And you are reinforcing that perception with each schizo interpretation you conjure out of nothing. >Then why bring up?You wanted to bring up an irrelevant topic. So I made an irrelevant observation. Simple. >>56787764Clearly. I think I’ve seen him posting before. He isn’t really subtle about his antics. He reminds me of CWC.
>>56787644>More like Digimon ironicallyThis became a problem once Digimon Season 3 came along with a different protag and it goes downhill from here.
>>56787797>You wanted to bring up an irrelevant topic.How is bringing up Z-A, which is mentioned in the leaks related to the anime meetings or the usage of Zygarde which was to coordinated in timing, irrelevant? Honestly the more you babble the more it's clear you're arguing in Bad faith.
>>56787817And here comes the derailment. No, it is not ‘bad faith’ to state the Z-A leaks are irrelevant to this discussion. Because it has absolutely nothing to do with Horizons’ performance. Now either get back on topic or shush.
>>567861791) Ash is already an interpretation of Red. Even the name is the same (Satoshi is Red's default name).2) Nowadays game protagonists are ageless genderless blobs with no personality or backstory. Won't work for anime.
>>56787828Calling shit you don't agree with irrelevant is peak faggotry. Why are you excluding specific anime leaks but everything else is free game? The same leaks claim that Horizons performance is also impacted by ZA. They literally timed it from the reveal trailer to then feature a shiny zygarde coincidentally in the next episode. "derailment" who are you trying to gaslight, take your projection and go back to /x/ since that seems up your forte.
>>56787842>with no personality or backstoryThen just make them a personality and backstory just like the OG anime did with Dawn, Misty and Brock?
>>56787846More whining. More making shit up. More derailment. Misusing terminology (gaslight). More schizo interpretations of incredibly simple topics. Incredible. Just incredible.No one brought up Z-A but you. No one brought up Zygarde but you. No one gives a shit. We're talking about how Horizons is fairing and the broader scope of the TV anime as a whole. Did Zygarde's tie-in episode make people give a shit about Horizons? No? Then it's pointless to even bring it up.
>>56784009Likonime failed & is going to be cancelled.
Ash sucks
>>56787903>More whining. More making shit up. More derailment. Misusing terminology (gaslight). More schizo interpretations of incredibly simple topics. Incredible. Just incredible.But enough about (You). Who dropped you on the head to have such warped mental gymnastics?
The actual biggest issue with the anime is its storytelling. It tries to pander to literally everyone around the world, and the result is just bland slop with flat characters that don't have any actual inner conflict, and the plot that just... happens. It's boring and formulaic even by the standards of childrens TV. I see Japanese fans constantly complain about it, saying how even Saturday morning tokusatsu shows put more thought into their narratives (and then making Liko lust threads).Until the philosophy behind the show changes, we won't see improvement no matter how many times they change protagonists.
>>56787938Genuine question: How is battling gym leaders "bland slop"?
>>56787940Was about to point that out.
>>56787940This. The phase where they did that is literally classic Pokemon material.
>>56787940>>56787944NTA but the execution of it is bland slop8 gym leader fights out of hundreds of filler episodes? You could make this much tighterPokespe does it relatively well
>>56787816Digimon tamerq is arguably the best digimon show and one of the most popularDigimon fell off after tamers because the new ones arent as good. That's all
>>56787953>Pokespe does it relatively wellPokespe is also somewhat of an unfocused edge slop from time to time, it's too surreal to be entertaining on a tv scale
>>56787919You have now ceased even trying to make a point and resorted to pure insults. Pathetic.>>56787938This is true. Pokemon is too safe in its approach to everything. The gym challenge suffices for establishing milestones for the protagonist but the execution of how they approach the challenge and grow as a character from the experience is key. Which means the gym leaders are extremely important characters. There is a reason characters like Paul are so well-received. They should consider why that is.
>>56787940It's not what they do, it's how they do it. Can you describe each of the Rising Volt Tacklers without mentioning their designs or occupations? Were there ever moments of genuine strife or conflict? Did the show ever explore any interesting themes?For me personally, the litmus test for a childrens show that actually tried was always Digimon Tamers. Compare that to the modern Pokemon anime, and you'll see that Liko is really not the actual problem here.
>>56787938>Liko lust threadsBased
>>56787964>You have now ceased even trying to make a pointAre you serious? You dismissing and projecting is fine but making a counterpoint is taboo? Where the fuck do you think you are?
>>56787995You have done no such thing. You have just whined and made shit up. Keep this nonsense up and I’ll just start ignoring your mindless responses.
>>56788005You're actually serious holy shit. How is bring up an anime related leak "making shit up"? Get out, dishonest retard.
>>56787957Tamers is seen as a meme series in Japan. It's agreed to be mid as shit and over there they only care about Adventure and, sometimes, bits of 02. What is with the west and trying to make it seem like Tamers was good? Adventure is milked forever but all Tamers got was a shitty japanese only stage show.
>>56784009>womeme protagonistThis shit was doomed to flop
>>56787862How is this different from making Ash out of Red?
>>56787842Red is 1st gen protagonist, maybe that Anon wanted other gen's protagonists, too?
>>56787842>Nowadays game protagonists are ageless genderless blobs with no personality or backstoryThis only applies to Gen 9, and will most likely be fixed in Gen 10 because everyone fucking hated it.
>>56788209They may double down, japanese people can be quite stubbornNow that I think about it, chicken having a blank stare was surprisingly funny and it gave us a bit of character for the Alolan protagonists
>>56784343tail end of Gen 4. It's where the anime collapses most blatantly and where movie quality starts outright tanking with only like 1-2 films after being alright.Hoenn had some legs to stand on because hey, we had a bigger, more important plot to kinda blunt things and Ash from Johto to Sinnoh was generally progressing and we did get call backs and reappearances of older characters and mon where appropriate usually so him getting just abit closer after svaing the world still felt like *a* win, particularly followed up with the Battle Frontier.Then you had sinnoh where the stakes are higher than ever for the villain plot and Ash and co. were legitimately doing shit like developing cool techniques and so on, etc. And then suddenly, some literally who fag with a pile of legendaries showed up to force him to lose, and then Gen 5 turned him into a retard VS kind of a hothead who could be stupid but actually mentored two of his friends to a degree, depowered Pikachu explicitly, and we got to see first hand in real time what however many million people jumping ship in response to being done with all that shit.Fags seethe about XY but Tobias was the biggest and most clear cut "This shit is never concluding in any respectable manner" and if you weren't a fetus at the time or one of the PokeSpec/Redfags still on life support you know the bulk of "Ash should have been replaced seasonally" discourse started after that and going into Gen V, because of how painfully, obviously shit that soft reboot was meant they literally had to grow an entirely new crop of Ashfags fresh on account of them being the ones saying "He should have just won and been replaced." at that point.
>>56788234>Fags seethe about XY but Tobias was the biggest and most clear cut "This shit is never concluding in any respectable manner" and if you weren't a fetus at the time or one of the PokeSpec/Redfags still on life support you know the bulk of "Ash should have been replaced seasonally" discourse started after that and going into Gen V, because of how painfully, obviously shit that soft reboot was meant they literally had to grow an entirely new crop of Ashfags fresh on account of them being the ones saying "He should have just won and been replaced." at that point.I think you are correct for the most part, I remember that people didn't like gen4 filler as it reminded them of Johto, I think the only well received filler where the ones that are used characters like Conway and the other chick that was a breeder and had a crush on Ash, people loved the sense of continuity in DP but disliked the fillerOther than that you are for the most part correct in your assessment that Tobias was a hype killer, people even forgot the Meowth guy existed for a while
>>56787953>>56788266If I have learned ANYTHING in my life it's that spending time seething about "Filler" was unironically the worst mistake in regards to media we've ever made as a modern society, because losing the safetynet of brute force worldbuilding and character exploration and establishment via sheer fucking quantity has gutted so many mediums./co/shit's the oldest example, nobody does bank robbery stories anymore because they aren't "important" enough and the constant lack of a true status quo and desperation to make the next character defining apocalypse villain or dark mirror is a key part of what killed comics, but cartoons and relatively recently /a/ shit also took it pretty fucking hard with reduced, unreliable episode counts. A lot of the shitty wheel spin or FASTASFUCK anime you see for example come from needing to cram something functional into 12 episodes and just not wanting to even try and pace a series or plan for that.I'd legitimately murder someone to turn back the clock to 100~episodes of anime filler and cartoons getting preapproved syndication ready blocs because jesus fucking christ.
>>56788286Counter point, DP had a lot and I mean a lot of reused stock footage for their fillers, I remember an autist that dissected the stock footage companion between Hoenn and Sinnoh and Sinnoh edged it out by a decent marginAt first I liked the whole Giovanni imagination segments but they got fucking weird after a while for a TR gagThe quality of the filler just wasn't as entertaining as it could have been
>>56788266It really can't be stated enough. A lot of fags since then have flat out left, it's part of why /vp/ trends so fucking young, but the franchise legitimately never recovered from that one-two punch of the anime and the games going into Gen V that badly.People try to say "Johto killed Pokemania" and sure it hurt it, but Pokemon was still a household name and an absolute fucking MUST for kids in the US and a cultural staple for them well through Hoenn, toys and plushes and cards and all that shit and dominating timeslots enough to make a huge swathe of the /co/ industry fucking seethe deep into the 2000s. 2009 and you still had standing bans on pokemon cards and games in schools as high up as high school because even teens would get into shit over them. By Sinnoh, there's definitely a noted decline, but the tank's half full by then as much as it's half empty and there's still a fuckload of goodwill as a childhood staple for like 2 and a half generations at that point to trade on to patch any problems until it just fucking imploded. It wasn't irrelevant after that, too much fucking inertia, investment, and huffing hopium but the days where a nintendo handheld and a Pokemon game were THE kid's birthday or christmas present or every kid in any given class had a favorite pokemon were over after the car finished spinning out and just sat there burning.Alain got more attention because the internet was more fully matured into the homogenous mass it is now and little baby newfags who were like 8 going into DP or Unova legitimately didn't notice a fucking thing until then because they only vaguely recalled anything prior and because of how heavily trolling the writers were about it VS the straight to the face, out of nowhere "Fuck you" that was Tobias meaning there wasn't as much of a head of steam to complain rather than just throw in the towel.
>>56788314Not denying that, just saying that I'm mainly talking from a retrospective viewpoint in regards to pacing, "extremely slow" was objectively better so long as you had like a hundred fucking episodes.
>>56784009Good riddance
>>56784009I could see them swapping out MCs every series, each one having that Ash hat logo thing somewhere in their designs.Still, good. Change the MCs every gen, it's a lot easier for them than having the characters become stupid between every gen and get their League-veteran Pokemon stomped by the route 1 shitmon.Could even fuck around with who the MCs are in every gen, imagine if one pulled a Colosseum and the MCs were part of [evil team] but quit, or if one gen had lolibait twins, or some grungy teen that hates Pokemon but grows to love them, or some tryhard that pushes their Pokemon to the limit but eventually learns to treat them better while still shooting for the stars and winning the league.
>>56784009LmaoIt's really Flopizons
>>56786498>yuma/astralYeah well they both look retarded, so it doesn't count.
>>56784009Good she can get thrown in the dumpster with Ash
>likonime flops and gets axed>"i-it was supposed to end!">"it's ashfags fault!"yikes and cringe
>>56787181>Horizon floppedSource?>>56787451>meaning must survive its own meritsWhat does this even mean>initial interest and curiosity goes down, then the slow decline either through bad writing or unappealing plot or characters, its original story having to be backed up with the game's plot and settingSource? Also, you can't demand good writing after supporting terrible writing for 20+ yeras.>schizos get mad at the mythical Ashfags You're a myth too?
>>56787486You criticized Liko for all these reasons though.Well, those and her being a Mary Sue, until she lost to a character stronger than her.
>>56787625>given the rhetoric is that Ash isn’t well likedAnon, if we blame ashfags then that already implies we think there's people who do like Ash. >In reality Horizons just isn’t doing enough to stand on its own.Source?
>>56789052>>56789057>>56789061Calm down, man. Don't fall into that loop, it's not healthy for your mind to bite into everything.
Glad to see the new anime it's reaching the end of it's own arc instead of pointlessly dragging the show for way too long so many others original characters can have time to shine
>>56789087That's the healthiest thing said and done ITT.
>>56789092There's multiple posts saying the same.
>>56789087Big cope
>there are people in this thread who actually want hundreds upon hundreds of episodes with the exact same characters3 years is still a pretty long run. I'm happy with how they've handled it.
>>56789119NOOO THEY'RE A MYTH
>>56789106I know, but everytime I see this stupid thread (Where nobody has still confirmed if the user in the image has any information about the BTH happenings) getting another reply just feeding into other's stupidity, it gets drowned out. Just drop it, this became a cesspool of TWO autistic retards from both sides baiting each other the moment no link got dropped after literally an hour or two to back up OP's claim. I don't know when it's gonna end nor do I care because it's an autistic feedback loop that accomplishes nothing, clears nothing and will do nothing except wasting everyone's time.
>>56789130Liko being eventually dropped was a possibility the second they announced her as "the girl with the pendant".If you care about sourcing so much you'd be asking for a source on its alleged flopping, which is claim made way more times than OPs.
>>56789143It's Pokemon, claiming it's flopping is like saying the sky is green. There will always be someone who consumes it. And honestly the more you feed into it, the more likely it will get spammed just to piss you off. Just DROP it.
>>56789159Right, because there's no chance unproven claims will be widely spread as facts in the pokemon fandom muddying discussion.
>>56785860>>56786050>if you don't say HZ is flawless you're a covert ashfagIt's impossible to have a honest discussion with you retards>>56788234>Fags seethe about XY but Tobias was the biggest and most clear cut "This shit is never concluding in any respectable manner"I remember that shit. And what came laterGrowing up I was never a regular ashnime watcher for a number of reasons (main being access) but I remember vividly Ash in early BW finding a koffing and acting like he had never seen one, Like, what the fuck is this bullshit.I always believed the anime team was completely ready to end the ashnime in DP, but the suits decided otherwise and they had to pull this from their asses. In hindsight, it's hilarious to note that the suits weren't even completely unanimous about that. I wonder who decided to stick with Ash for so long and why, they should have really listened to Ishihara.
>>56789209>if you don't say HZ is flawless you're a covert ashfagNo one is saying this. Just give actual honest criticism and you'll be fine. Its the fact that you can't that's the redflag.
>>56784009We told you that Horizons was flopping
>>56784009Maybe if she didn't get the shit grass cat and got an Eevee she could stay, but oh well, bring on the Gen 10 protag
>Ash>lasted more than 2 decades. He is still memorable and iconic to this very day>Shitko>didn't even last two years before she got executed. She will not be mourned or rememberedLol
>>56789317I literally just said that HZ was good but not amazing >>56785625The ashnime was never great and it sucked at the end but initially it rode the wave of pokemania to establish itself, and later was carried by a mass of vocal nostalgiafags. HZ never had any wave to ride on, so it needed to be really amazing to stand out on its own and move out of that shadow. And it's good, it's comfy, but not amazing, not catchy enough. I gave it a chance precisely because I was never a regular ashnime watcher and wasn't emotionally invested on that, and it has its moments but lacks something that makes people say "hey everyone has to watch this now!".>Just give actual honest criticism and you'll be fineI'll be fine regardless, this shit is just an image board lol. But do you really think the retard who quoted a handful of people and yelled >NOOO BUT THEY SAY THEYRE NOT ASHFAGS was up for honest discussion
>>56787353You’ll never get anything like that. It’ll be another hyperactive idiot because that’s all the anime staff can think of when it comes to boys
>>56789426>I literally just said that HZ was good but not amazing >>56785625You also posted unsourced claims of an alleged lack of hype or flopping. And that ashfags have standards high enough(or at all) to need the new show to be amazing, which is, at best, whitewashing them.>I'll be fine regardless, this shit is just an image board lol. But do you really think the retard who quoted a handful of people and yelled >NOOO BUT THEY SAY THEYRE NOT ASHFAGS was up for honest discussionYes.
>>56789454good lord you're literally HZ's own famon
>>56789469I like how you imply I'm a schizo for not taking every "not an ashfag" at face value and then you proceed to bring up le famon.
>>56784009haven't seen a single episodeis she really that bad? replacing a character as stale as Ash shouldn't be hard
>>56789478shes just boring fap bait for pedos
>>56789478She's a very basic competently written character with a clear defined arc and goals she progresses towards to.Which is just a regular thing, but for ashfags its something crazy and unexpected they can't deal with.
>>56789478Honestly just watch the premiere episodes yourself instead of asking a thread that is just escalates and derailed into metafagging by both sides.
>>56789478First two episodes are available on jewtube or torrent the Some-stuff subs on Nyaa and then view them, you won't get any straight answers ITT
>>56789499>le both sides are badAlso, anon asked "is she really that bad?" meaning he already got the impression of one side. He wasn't asking from pure neutrality.
>>56789518Calm down anon. Falseflagging and metafagging will only send you on a vacation.
I still can't over how the one single and lone reason the anime was cucked for over two decades was because of one single dude's autistic obsession with making Ash an eternal loser and not a single person in those twenty years actually telling him to fuck off.
>>56789535I thought there was no falseflagging though?
>>56789547Anon, someone deliberately doing the opposite of not sinking to someone's level is peak falseflagging.
Ashfags were behind 9/11
>>56789498Isn't her entire character arc literally just talk no jutsuing her way through major events while constantly going "But I dunno what I wanna do with my life?" thus far or did they finally move the fuck on with that.
>>56784109Gen 4 would've been too long, Ash should've left after beating Gary in Johto
>>56789536Still funny how Ash-Greninja jobbing made so many people mad that TPC finally had to give in and let Ash win shit for once until he finally won for good.IIRC there were reports that people within the studio itself were mad/confused.Seriously though, A-G losing was bullshit on an entirely new level, everyone but the "Ash will literally never win, stop expecting him to" nihilists were confused as fuck, practically everything A-G had should've easily one-shot the nigger by basically every metric, but A-G lost to a move that should've done like 2 damage or not hit at all due to dodge-no-jutsu.This wasn't even some rando pulling up with a bunch of legendaries, we KNEW Alain and what he can/can't do, and we knew that A-G was overpowered as fuck and the Chosen One and the protector of the universe or whatever.I was glad when the Pokemon series got less-serious in Alola, the show needed it. Still lost interest towards the end and haven't watched the series since, instead rewatching all the gen 1-7 series again then only absorbing info about new episodes via internet-osmosis after that.
>>56790763You've no idea what a character arc is.I wonder what group in the fanbase is like that.
>>56784009BASED, FUCK THIS IMPOSTER BRING BACK ASH!
>>56791506>Introduce a bullshit special snowflake shounen super form completely unique to the Pokemon anime.>LoseImagine if Goku got his ass beat by Frieza, after all the hype and buildup over the Legendary Super Saiyan.
>>56786009100%. The entertainment industry has forgotten that what kids want is most is to get older and seeing cool adults do badass shit is way more fun than seeing some dweeb halfling muck about while no one takes him seriously.
>>56789536He wanted an eternal show and the job security that comes with it, think of sazae
>>56787938This. People thought removing Ash was the problem. But he was just a casualty to poor storytelling. The show refuses to be nothing then kodomo tv ad. Which is hilarious given how popular the games are with various age group. Pokemon should have anime that appeals to all ages groups. Until they change their mindset, it will always suck.
>>56784009thats fine. Liko has zero cultural impact unlike Ash. No one will care when she's gone
>>56792512All they needed to do was let Ash age, that would have solved a lot of problems
>>56789478shes not bad, just...bland? Ash at least had a fun personality in the early pokemon seasons, but Liko just feels lobotomized from the get go.
>>56792512> People thought removing Ash was the problem. But he was just a casualty to poor storytelling. Anon, everyone knew this. Even ashfags understand ash is fictional so of course reasonable people would too. The issue is that, after a point, no amount of good writing would salvage the sunken ship. Removing ash was the necesary first step.>The show refuses to be nothing then kodomo tv ad.This was never the problem and there's nothing wrong with that as that's what the show was always promoted as.It'd be an issue if it was pushed as a show for adults but it isn't. If you're still at the stage where you think only you deserve to be pandered to, you aren't much smarter than (either) pokemon anime's target audience.
>>56792561So you relate to her?
>>56789478She's competently written but honestly she doesn't really bring anything new to the Pokemon table. Her personality and character arc is basically what we saw with May, Serena and Chloe - nice girl who lacks confidence and is unsure about what to do with her future but gradually learns to love Pokemon - just replace Pokemon contests / showcases with straight up battling. That's why I don't quite get the hype around her. She's honestly just a bog standard female companion from the Ashnime.
>>56793237>May, Serena and ChloePeople who have neurons haven't watched any of those so its a novelty.Also, she's made for a new generation of kids who haven't been able to watch neither of those characters, like a lot of kids media.If you expected innovative storytelling from a kids show that's on you.
>>56793272>People who have neurons haven't watched any of thoseNor will they watch the new either then, it's weird how you think the new one is something only "smart" people can enjoy when you have leaks telling how kids didn't like them and that Dot was fucking boring and unlikeable to kids so they had to change her personality pretty damn fast
>>56793295>and that Dot was fucking boring and unlikeable to kids so they had to change her personality pretty damn fastI haven't seen those, or the anime. Can you elaborate?
>>56793295Isnt Dot an autist?
>>56793361My Bad, seems it was an interview but the cope is that kids are dumb for not liking that kind of stuff>>56793384A NEET but kids didn't like it
I hope so. Following one protagonist as they learn about the pokemon world is much more enjoyable than having some retard suddenly forget everything he knew about pokemon after getting on a boat to another country so kids can follow along.
>>56793361Context: she was living a double life as an up and coming streamer who recorded herself in costume, acting fun and hype and teaching Pokémon stuff, but off the costume she was a bitter basement dweller who never left her room and had zero practical experience. She was indeed insufferable in the beginning, didn't talk to anyone, and when she did she was rude and mean. Wouldn't even sit on the table to eat normal food because it was "inefficient" and lived off magic vitamin bars instead.Now she's your textbook computer nerd, somewhat generic but far more open and likeable, and now she trains her own Pokémon. She still streams the same but now she does it from direct experience rather than theoretical knowledge.The change wasn't THAT sudden though, the idea that she had to open up and become sociable was always there, but maybe there's some truth that the change was sped up as a response to her reception.
>>56792145>>56791506Kalos League fallout unironically killed the Ashnime.They tried to damage control like crazy afterwards, but alas, it was too little and too late. You can't recover from that.
>>56793295> it's weird how you think the new one is something only "smart" people can enjoyI literally never said that. Nor does the pic say kids don't like Liko nor that they changed her personality.You have terrible reading comprehension skills, as expected from ashfags.
>>56793586> nor that they changed her personalitynor that they changed Dot's personality*
>>56791506>>56792145>>56793497I rememeber waking up in the morning and reading the news that Ash had jobbed once again. I put a lot of memes on twitter and a former college classmate I considered a close friend blocked me from social media and never talked me again. Good times.In hindsight that was a good filter
>>56784009I'm not watching this anime but the problem with Ash was him not aging and developing as a character. If she is aged in later seasons and complete her journey then it's fine for another character to replace her.
>>56784009Horizons...more like Flopizons haha
>>56793586>>56793595>People who have neurons haven't watched any of those so its a novelty.Do you even know the words you used? Because it sure doesn't look like it, but sure the mysterious Ashfags who have a hold on the world are the ones lacking reading comprehension and in that pic anyone would get thatLmao Horizonfags are so funny
>>56792262To be honest, I honestly thought that was how Pokemon was going to be. I figured it would be one of those animes that go on forever with no ending like Doraemon or Chibi-maruko chan. Having Ash finish his journey as World Champion honestly caught me off guard.
>>56793586>>56793595Aoyama: By the way, apparently the kids watching the Pokémon anime these days like Gurumin better than Dot. Q: Really? Do you have any idea why?Aoyama: Well, it appears some of them don't actually realize that Dot and Gurumin are the same person, just like Liko initially didn't. When adults look at a costumed character, it automatically registers to them that there's someone inside that suit, but these kids just earnestly think of Gurumin as Gurumin and enjoy the character they see.I was really shocked when I learned this, and it made me think about how children view the Pokémon anime. Dot does have a lot of lines that sound very negative, constantly calling things "a pain" or saying she doesn't want to do something.Q: True, on paper she sounds very negative.Aoyama: If you actually think about WHY she says these things, though, they often have positive meanings, like if she says it's such a pain that the Gurumin costume isn't dry yet BECAUSE she wants to start working on a video. The sound director told me that if I just straight out call things a pain and leave it at that, I'll just come across as unpleasant, and he's right about that; I don't want the kids watching the Pokémon anime to think of Dot as an unpleasant character. Dot isn't unpleasant.When Dot says something is a pain, it's ultimately used as a positively loaded word. If you keep that in mind, you'll see her in a very different light.Here, easier to read
>>56793693>the kids watching the Pokémon anime these days like Gurumin better than Dot.>I was really shocked when I learned this, and it made me think about how children view the Pokémon anime. Dot does have a lot of lines that sound very negative, constantly calling things "a pain" or saying she doesn't want to do something>Q: True, on paper she sounds very negative.>The sound director told me that if I just straight out call things a pain and leave it at that, I'll just come across as unpleasant, and he's right about that;>I don't want the kids watching the Pokémon anime to think of Dot as an unpleasant character. Dot isn't unpleasant.
>>56793693So it was a small tweak about they way she expressed herself. Fags here are making me believe her personality fully changed overnight due to public reation, as if her personal arc to go outside and get a life wasn't something always bound to happen
>>56784083>The boys want edgy wish fulfillment revenge porn cartoons and the girls want edgy romance stuff. none of that is pokemonBut it could be. The franchise certainly has the potential to, although they'll never ever do it.
>>56792262>>56793678Honestly, the weekly Pokemon anime had a chance of being eternal once again when Journeys aired, given the world tour format (regions keep getting added), slice of life (evident in early JN), Goh & Chloe hailing from Kanto not being tied down to Gen gamesAsh, Goh & Chloe could've stayed forever until the end of time until the retarded writers & execs insert character progression again from the middle of JN.
>>56793847>Got unceremoniously dumped for Misty and Brock at the end Get out Gohapologist, you never mattered
>>56793847>Posted it again awardEven the suits knew better. They had no plans for Chloe and Goh and the leaks only reinforced that.
>>56792512Ash's main problems:1. Resetting every gen, starting over from scratch every time and never learning anything for good.2. Being literally written to lose no matter what solely because then the show would end.3. Never ages.4. His skills as a whole vary so wildly that you can never tell what's going to happen.>>56792145Nah, the comparison has to also include Frieza using something that absolutely shouldn't work, too. Like, if Frieza was just to finish Goku off with a punch, or he simply shanks him with a knife and Goku simply slumps over.Then, the show doesn't bother to justify it, it's not a special knife, or some super-charged punch, and Goku's transformation WAS complete and it wasn't like a tradeoff to make him a glass cannon. Nope, got shanked in the guts by a gas-station knife and died.
>>56793847Go was literally literally just there to be a representative/reference to Pokemon Go. You're looking too far into him. Pokemon Go's golden age was already dying at the time they got him into the show too, so it's not like they have an incentive to keep him around or do anything else with him.I don't remember who Chloe is.
>>56793847The problem was Goh and Chloe from the start you retard, go back to your containment thread.
>>56793717Yeah, it wasn't them changing the character, just realizing that the way they were writing her dialogue was a bit too subtle for young kids to follow, so they started spelling shit out a bit more.The change in writing was so small I don't think anyone really noticed.
>>56792145>>56794436
>>56794522Yeah, but that was universally made fun of for how BS it is and I feel like everyone just kinda memoryholed it after that and pretended it didn't happen, just like how Ash jobbing caused a ton of people to get very mad."Bullets are fast lol" nigga, we've seen way weaker versions of Goku unaffected by getting planet-sized balls of instant death thrown at him, I have a hard time believing a Saiyan Killing 9000 Super Bullet would hurt him at his BS power levels, let alone regular-ass bullets.
>>56793847Go was cancer from the start, Chloe had some room to grow if they played their cards right
>>56794616>let alone regular-ass bulletsUmmm, killing Black with a bullet was actually a plan
>>56784009So what rando did Ash knock up to produce this creature?
>>56794863LolLmao even Unlike Ash she does come from a legendary bloodline
>>56794901>Not answering the question
>>56793497Funny how this supposed breaking point never actually caused a notable drop; whereas XY itself already had shit ratings. There's a distinction between rabid fans and having many fans; XY certainly has more of the former than what comes after but the actual numbers otherwise don't imply much.>>56792145Ass nigger losing to Alain twice is losing to Cell, not Frieza. This comparison literally doesn't work as the transformation was already long long established and had wins under its belt.People just wanted to ignore the fact that Alain had retard feats and nothing Ass was doing actually got to his level. The show was telegraphing that it was going to be useless pretty early.
>>56794863>blue hair on LikoAsh knocked up Dawn!Ash x DawnKinoWinner
>>56784083Why don’t they just make actual anime for adult otaku, seriously. They would make much more money this way. Why are they so fucking retarded.
She was supposed to be around for decades like Ash
>>56795327i swear they fucking hate the existence of the adult fanbase
>>56795327Kids are too profitable, if you market somewhat to adults you can't hide from as many regulations as a kid show or feign innocence on your marketingJust look at Yu-Gi-Oh, a game played by nothing but 30-40 year olds with a show for kids>>56795460They resent us, they know we are the games target audience but they want to sell the merch to kids first and foremost
>>56793272I don't expect innovative storytelling, but I do expect well-executed storytelling. Liko is a bit behind the curve because the writers initially wanting to differentiate her from Ash and company and the traditional Pokemon show formula (for understandable reasons mind you.)For example, her capabilities were more grounded as a kid like how she couldn't travel or camp by herself.Liko would be grand adventure story rather than focus on acquiring gym / contest badges, overcoming rivals and the Pokemon League. The villains hunting her down would be competent and a real threat unlike how the Team Rocket Trio became jokes.She would have an adult guardian watch over her in her journey due to being a kid and being hunted down by competent villains.Those are not bad ideas by themselves on paper. The problem was that this lead to the writers accidentally writing themselves into a corner by not providing Liko any real source of conflict or external marker of growth. The writers were so focused on what they didn't want Liko to be that they lost focus on what she should do.She couldn't camp out by herself so she couldn't encounter wild Pokemon (so no scenes like Ash defending Pikachu from a flock of wild Fearow) or deal with environmental dangers (like being stuck in middle of a blizzard). Without gym / contest battles or badges she didn't have scenes of dealing with defeat like May, Dawn or Serena. She didn't have rivals that challenged her beliefs like Paul. It didn't help that Friede constantly bailed her out against Amethio and the Explorers because they were too strong for her. That left her with practically nothing to do. For a while it became a joke in the fandom that she was just training to be a housewife by doing chores on ship.Luckily the writers caught on and they just basically tossed her back in the traditional Pokemon story with the Academy arc.
>>56793662>Do you even know the words you used?Yes.Alternatively, only retards watch the ashnime>but sure the mysterious Ashfags who have a hold on the worldLiterally read the thread.>>56793693This is the same as the pic.>>56795696> I do expect well-executed storytellingWhich you got> The problem was that this lead to the writers accidentally writing themselves into a corner by not providing Liko any real source of conflict or external marker of growth. This is blatanly false and indicates a lack of actual willingness to honestly criticize the show or you not having watched it. The show has conflict(explorers, getting to rakua, finding what she wanted to do) and she does get markers of growth. She literally got Hattena the same episode where she found out what she wanted to do in life. Not to mention her mons evolved, keep getting new moves, and she got terastal. A superficial watching could dispel these "arguments".This isn't actual, honest criticism, this was you making shit up because your main interest isn't the actual criticism of the show.And your mention of May, Dawn, Serena and Paul doesn't help.
>>56784017Hopefully you are right, since that means the MC will be roper characters with planned stories and development instead of a frozen in time blank cardboard for two decades
>>56793693Dot is literally just a copy of Penny, an asocial vaguely female NEET with a secret identity. Her existence makes me wonder why they didn't use Penny instead, considering that she has absolutely nothing to do in the show, and barely appears despite being a major character in Gen 9. It highlights how weirdly obsessed the creators are with shoving OCs down your throat when they have a perfectly usable in-game cast. Any other studio would instead take the opportunity to make Penny the main character and flesh out her identity and actually shill the fucking game.
>>56795929sex
>>56795929Would
>>56795929Anon, they did used Penny and they became friends while trading numbers for the future.
>>56795971I know. And it only highlighted how redundant Dot is.
>>56795977Isn't Penny already working for the league at that point?
>>56795992Yes, but that doesn't matter, they could've written her as whatever they wanted.
>>56795998And what? Have her do the same thing all over again or doing a seperate arc that's not befitting of her character? No thanks.Honestly them using characters in their state after the game is something that should've been a thing earlier.
>>56795929Dot is like 50 times cuter than Penny.
>>56795739Liko stood in the sidelines against most of the battles against the Explorers because she was too underleveled. Friede and Captain Pikachu were the ones who fought real battles until recently. Liko had to wait for 21 episodes before she caught Hattena and that was after she had her first gym battle that she threw. Her revelation about figuring out what she wanted to do was so underwhelming that they essentially had to redo it in the Terastal Arc with her gym battle with Katy.Like I said, Liko was behind the curve in the beginning of Horizons because the writers kept handling her with kid gloves and prevented her from dealing with any physical or emotional conflicts. Once they figured out that they needed her to actually do things on her own and enrolled her in the Academy things began to improve.
>>56796638>Liko stood in the sidelines against most of the battles against the Explorers because she was too underleveled.She battled Amethio's minions.And if she beat any of the main explorers you'd have called her a mary sue. Like you did anyways. The "until recently" statement also implies there was progress.> Her revelation about figuring out what she wanted to do was so underwhelmingcope, it happened.>that they essentially had to redo it in the Terastal Arc with her gym battle with Katy.This literally didn't happen.
>>56796638>wait for 21 episodesMost people would call this character development but sure.
>>56793497Nah, Tobias killed it, Alain just buried it after it started trying to crawl out of its grave.
>>56787256it's not fair you stupid modern Pokemon anime shills robbed kalos anime xyz fans just because y'all hated ash Greninja and wanted Charizard to win outta spite fuck you and everyone who wanted mid zard to win
Imagine being mad about a show for children that came out a decade ago. Lol
>>56795015>Muh ratingsAutist.>M-Muh I actually knew Ash was gonna lose all along it was totally obvious only retards thought he would winAutist.
>>56797079Glad to see someone confirming it with a lack of argument.
>>56797085There's no argument to be had.It's factual that the Kalos Disaster fallout killed the Ashnime. We've got meetings all but saying as such.Sorry you're too autistic.
>>56797092No it affirmed there was no salvaging it. Ashime was already dead by XY.
>>56797107And even then trying to keep Ass lasted two more gens after this. And not in a light sense; SM had a pretty notable push as well. JN Is also trying to save its ass in a different distinct way even if it was just digging itself deeper.Regardless, want to show the documents saying that they didn't consider viewership a relevant metric? The only thing we got is that it was pure autism that kept Ash on for so long.
>>56796802>don't ask questions just consume product and mindlessly cOnSuMe next ProDucT
>>56797284>he's mad about a cartoonnobody cares about what Ash was doing during the XY series, everybody is happy he's finally gone so a new generation can enjoy the show for once.
>Ash>172 times>Liko>46 times>Most of them is how evil the Ashfags are or how shit is AshI do wonder who's more obssessed
>>56797382>Two retards provoking and internationally baiting other>Duuuuuh I wonder who is more obsessedBoth. Both are obsessed retards and you for metafagging like a useless bitch. That this thread got dragged out for over a day despite >>56784025 not getting a proper responsd was clear that there was no good answer in this thread to begin with. Usually most Xitter threads die off the moment their sources are into question but this just became a catfight for two schizoids from both sides.
>>56795696>For a while it became a joke in the fandom that she was just training to be a housewife by doing chores on ship.Credit where credit is due, that was a lot different from what we expected
>>56784009It will only get worse.
>>56797423Wasn't that just a /vp/ meme to begin with?
>>56797382>I do wonder who's more obssessedThe ones who wasted 20+ years of their lives with something and don't let the other group enjoy a different thing.
>>56797435Yes, but I will give it credit in how different she is to other fem characters in the franchise bar Chloe, a bit Mary Sueish but not gratingIt really wasn't what I expected
>>56797422>le both sides bad!!
>>56797464>The ones who wasted 20+ years of their lives with something and don't let the other group enjoy a different thing.They already moved on long agoIronically, the only people who can't move on from Ash are Likofags
>>56797476>They already moved on long agoKek no. I wonder why do you feel the need to lie to make a certain group of people look better.
>>56797479Outside of Famon your echo chamber never shuts up about Ash, how shit he is, how better are Liko and Roy, how the anime takes place in the games instead of the ashnime world or just Liko coom pics, shipping bait and incest jokes.We don't even need to do anything, you guys are already a joke blaming the terrorist Ashfags grouo for the lack of interest
Did anyone actually expect Liko and/or Roy to stick around after Horizons? Unlike Ash, their individual goals are tied to the overarching storyline. Liko brings Terapagos to Rakua, reuniting it with Lucius while Roy gets to fight Rayquaza and earns it respect.Once those goals are reached, the writers can properly send off Liko and Roy, knowing the characters have fulfilled their purpose in the story, and move on to a new main cast.
>>56797497Its funny how you, aside from blatanly lying, insist on pushing the idea of ashfags not being a thing while at the same time bringing up le famon who has apparently been behind all the retarded shit we've been getting ever since pokespe started getting scans and in every product without your idol.>>56797507>Did anyone actually expect Liko and/or Roy to stick around after Horizons? You're making an educated guess based on a basic understanding of storytelling and probably experience with non-pokemon media.Many here aren't that capable.
>>56797497>Outside of FamonRent-free
>>56797527>aside from blatanly lyingYou really are trying too hard, I can go to the archive a post proof but I won't because you will still deny it, so it's not even worthy
>>56797540>I can go to the archive a post proof There's proof in this very thread you're wrong anyways.
>>56797540Nta but if you're talking about /padt/, the latest threads from the last days there are only about 5% to 15% atmost of what you're accusing them of. That place is unironically healing in the meantime in where you're yapping about the state of them from months ago.
>>56795739What is wrong with mentioning May, Serena, Dawn or Paul?
I came way too many times to that liko doujin the least i can do is watch her show before it ends
>>56795015XYZ anime is still better than mid horizon slop cope
>>56788021tamers was awesome stfu you will never be Japanese
>>56797734Literally explained in the post you're replying to.
>>56798711No you didn't.
>>56797375who tf asked you and nobody fuck off bootlicker
It’s time, ash chads will rise again
>>56798729I did, but since you're an ashfag you can't read it seems.
