>Nature Mints>Bottlecaps>People praise these as good featuresI mean, on one hand, sure they're better than what's before, but maybe these elements need to be completely reexamined?Why do we even have IVs? The idea is to make Pokemon unique from each other, as well as to encourage breeding, but the former could be accomplished in many other ways that doesn't necessitate making your Pokemon objectively worse (for example, color variation). The latter is just boring and grindy and only insane people actually like breeding for good IVs, an act where the process is just getting two Pokemon with good numbers and hatching eggs by driving your bike left and white until you get lucky with a roll, a process that takes hours. IVs should just be done away with, have all IVs calculated as if they were 31.Are there any other game mechanics or elements in Pokemon that people consider staple that you'd like to see changed or radically altered?
Nature Mints were never a necessity outside of Legendary shit because they can't be bred for arbitrary gamebreaking reasons. Even then soft resetting to catch the right nature for your legendary should be a part of the challenge. But I guess they added them because raidshit is in conflict with that fun where you can only fight these fuckers onceAs for IVs they were objectively never good. They were a bad miscalculation to make "unique" Pokemon because prior attempts weren't significant enough of a detail to be noticeable. They added the blurb of where you caught a Pokemon as a part of their bio permanently. Their nicknames are permanent too... Because they are, okay? They gave up on gender differences because they had no good ideas on how to differentiate most Pokemon without just gutting their designsA lot of these features are leftovers of a game engine reset from 20+ years ago that only got kept because of the quick release schedule of the games. If Pokemon games took a proper amount of time to release, actually 3-4 years instead of halving the teams to make remakes, then the franchise would've seen more significant leaps than it currently hasHonestly it's over now thanks to Dexit. Team building is not fun anymore because every dex will have the same handful of pop mons and an even shittier batch of baby's first maya model new mons. The feeling of making a Pokemon your own is really only possible in games like GO because the mainline games have been languishing in the same puke puddle they've started to convulse in since going 3D. Pokemon desperately needs a break to rethink itself
>>56889442>Nature Mints were never a necessity outside of Legendary shitThey were added because it felt bad to have a Pokemon with you the whole game, or to catch a shiny, and not be able to fully enjoy it because it had a bad nature. Mints are a good addition that do not detract from the game in any way. Soft-resetting is not a "challenge," it's mindless tedium.
>>56889460You ignored the second part of my comment on Mints. Soft resetting should be a part of the challenge because doing something once the first time around doesn't mean you've mastered it. This can apply to team building, team building only really falters if you just want to quickly nab Pokemon for the sake of it and don't really care if they were out of the box optimized. You can't just ask an electrician to fix your plumbing the same way you can't really ask a dog to fetch it it really only knows how to jump through a hoop. I agree that say soft-resetting for a good starter isn't really difficulty, but I don't consider it that much of a waste of time because there's only a handful of Natures and you can work with a minimum of 5 of them due to the 5 neutral natures. It's a big part of why I can't stand SM's opening because of the obnoxious Lillie cutscene before you grab your starterMaybe as a postgame thing yeah mints are a good idea if you were too lazy to grab a good nature off the bat. Natures are a good, flexible way to add something unique to your Pokemon and I've never really been fond of how mints are just a slap on "fix" if you're really THAT autistic about your Pokemon not being competitive enough. That's compared to IVs, which always felt like a genuine game design middle finger
>>56889442>Nature Mints were never a necessity outside of Legendary shitNo, >>56889460 pointed that outWhat you really need to get a legendary with a good nature is a synchronize usedGF should kept it so the target mon always had the same nature as the synchro user>IVsI agree they are shitty
All this shit was added precisely to get more casualfags into VGC. Because they *weren't* using the in-game methods (casuals don't give a fuck about natures in a playthrough. Fuck, I used a 0IV Sp Attk Delphox in my playthrough) to try and build comp teams prior or hunting for "the right nature" pokémon to ungabunga "A" against the gym leaders. They just played the games, then found out if they wanted to play competitive/online, they needed to nolife nerd it and dipped. These days, shit ANYONE can enter if they're arsed. I fixed up a shitload the shinies I'd collected for the shiny birds VGC event and won online matches, despite just doing it FOR the shinies. Doubtless some bastard got the bug after trying it out.
>>56889498But even with mints natures add flavor and personality to your Pokemon, they just have the ability to do that without making their stats shit now
>>56889259IVs are shit and should be removed. Nature mints are fucking amazing though, especially cause it doesn't actually change the nature, just the stats.
>>56889442>soft resetting to catch the right nature for your legendary should be a part of the challenge. But I guess they added them because raidshit is in conflict with that funnow THIS is autism.I agree with the rest of your post, however.
>>56889259Anything that encourages more people to try competetive is fine with me.It was always insanely hard to convince friends to try teambuilding since most never wanted to breed their team. One the mints came out, I had a lot more fun.
People won't realize unless it hits them, but removing IVs and natures would take away the soul from the games. If every Lv10 Pidgey you catch looks identical on the status screen unless it gets a lucky mark or shiny, suddenly the universe feels dull and lacking the genetic variety that IVs are intended to show. I don't see the problem with the current system, it allows randomness to casual playthroughs and maxing out your mons is a task fitting for the post-game.The biggest barrier for entry in competitive is honestly the grind and resources needed to EV your Pokemon.>508 EVs costs 510k>Mints only cost 20k>Hyper training costs 120k at worstThe EV system is what needs an overhaul to be simpler to max out and more freely customizable.
>>56890756Literally only turbo autists are comparing IVs in the first place. Not kids, not casuals.
glory to the CCP
>>56890756You can EV train for free with Power items. Takes like 30 minutes tops.
>>56890806That falls under the tedious grind category, most people don't want to do it, plus it's harder to keep track of your EVs for more complicated spreads. Which reminds me, feathers being purchasable would be great for QoL but they really don't seem to want that.
>>56889259i think ivs should all be calculated as if they ware 0 instead.
MOFAURKING MEIRABALLS MY HEROES GLORY TO THE CCP NOT VIDEOGAMES IM GOING TO YATSUCUM REISEN IS A WHORE TEWISLOP MARIDAIPER alice
>>56889259>Are there any other game mechanics or elements in Pokemon that people consider staple that you'd like to see changed or radically altered?Flesh out the monotype specialization for gyms so that it doesn't always boil down to a simple supereffective attack steamroll.>mfw seeing the Scarlet & Violet gym leaders pull out a mon that isn't their specialized type, only for them to terastallize it into the type I've spent the past few turns steamrolling
>>56891468aren't gym leaders coming with coverage?
>>56889259>I mean, on one hand, sure they're better than what's before, but maybe these elements need to be completely reexamined?You're not alone OP. Others have said this. Some of the praise these things get is less that they're good but more about having them is better than not having them.The entire thing should be reworked.>>56890756There's a point where you have to sacrifice realism and lore for gameplay commodity. Like when they remove convoluted evo methods.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1uqljpK7oQi'i'i'i'i'ta'a'a'a'zura'a'a usagi'i'i'i'wa'a'a'a'aru ga'ki usagi'i'iha'a'a'raguro'o'o' usagi'i'ishi'i'i'i'awase usagi'i'i'' ~da
>>56891521Coverage? lololoolol good one.Even in the rematches they're still a steamroll
>>56891568>mudslaps your geodude
Comp faggotry has done irreparable damage to this franchiseI recall being at some gaming thing playing Platinum, and I had a Magmortar I was using... some guy leans over, and says, "You know that mon is trash right?", I guess because Smogon or something told him it was bad because numbers not big enoughI'm just smashing NPCs in single-player, I don't give two fucks about what nature and what EVs it hasI really think GF needs to split off the competitive shit into it's own brand so the single-player can be improved... I am hoping the Legends series being a thing now will help facilitate this change
>>56891617I've been wanting a new Stadium game for 10 years now. Showdown doesn't scratch the itch.
>>56889259IVs won't be removed because they matter too much for a few different interactions and gamefreak is notoriously lazylike, gyro ball would need to be completely redone, you'd lose out on shit like customizing beast boost gains (most notably attack boosting stakataka), and so on
>>56891753>gyro ball?
>>56891753You can rework IVs like how Legends Arceus has the Grit system, where specific mons(Alphas, etc) will start off with higher Effort Levels, which can then be customized further with the Grit ItemsSomething like that would allow for mons to be caught with varying stats, while still allowing for EV-style customization, but they would probably need to refine it and possibly add a limit to how much Grit you can use overall
>>56891773the way gyro ball's power is calculated means it'd be WAY weaker if IVs are removed:>IV at 00 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (132 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 135-160 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO>IV at 31 (so if IVs were removed)0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (78 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 81-96 (23.7 - 28.1%) -- 88.8% chance to 4HKOthey'd have to go in and rebalance the entire move from the ground up, basically. and gamefreak is too lazy to ever do that.
>>56891819if iv's ware removed you don't have to assume it would be like op suggested. it could be all ivs ware at 0 or at 15.the real change would be something like hp.
>>56891830if you put all IVs to zero (or anything below 31, really) then you're fundamentally changing damage levels across the entire game and not just for a couple moves. that's an even bigger headache.0 SpA Mew Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 116-138 (34 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO0 SpA 0 IVs Mew Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP 0 IVs / 0 SpD 0 IVs Mew: 116-138 (37.4 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
>>56891753players who care about comp can give themselves migraines over thisthe real issue is that removing ivs would mean another change in how pokemon data is formatted and stored, which would likely mean another hard cutoff for transfers, which would be a PR nightmare.
>>56891846for most people, putting all ivs naturally on 31 would increase damage for moves for the entire game as most people don't breed for perfect ivs.any chage to game mechanic changes the game. question is if it makes the game more fun or less, and removing ivs is changing for 'more'.
>>56891867even for ingame that's incorrect, as virtually all trainers have IVs below 31. even champions only get 30. setting everything to 31 would mean that all those trainers' pokemon get significantly more durable.
>>56889259The problem with the post gen 3 stat system is that it's an unintentional blackpill. IVs/Natures were added to make Pokemon more unique, and they are arguably more flavorful and true to real life than the pre gen 3 system. But in a competitive context, they logically turn the game into a eugenics simulator which goes against Gamefreak's messaging to win with your favorites. Friendship, despite being an ingame stat, doesn't actually affect PvP battles.NuGamefreak came up with a half-assed solution to this: keep the current system but throw all the flavor out the window (bottlecaps rewrite your Pokemon's DNA, mints alter its brain chemistry, because they just do, okay?). It really doesn't make much sense to keep the old system at all anymore. Or breeding as a whole, since as of gen 9 egg moves can be learned without breeding. But Gamefreak is lazy and players are satisfied as long as they get instant gratification, so it's doubtful they'll ever change things on a fundamental level.
>>56891883>setting ivs to 31 would make pokemons more durablebut it will also make them hit harder.
>>56891900nope, since your low IVs will be removed as well. that would just slow the game down. not by much, mind you, but it would.
>>56891912the fact both attack and defense ivs would be 0 means that there is more importance to a pokemon natural stats. a pokemon with 30 base def benefit much more from def ivs than a pokemon with 100 base def, and a pokemon with 30 base attack benefits much more from ivs than one with 100 base attack. so the effect varries by case. point is setting ivs premptively will affect base game no matter where you set it, and the least effect would be setting it on 15 since thats the avarage.
whats her team
>>56892138Chandelure
>>56891886>mints alter its brain chemistryhot
>>56889259MEIRA BALLS
>>56890786>>56891440best posts ITT
>>56889259>>56889442FINALLY SOMEONE GETS ITFUCK IVS
>>56892654not meira'smisumaru'shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CbYowPILnU
>>56889259Mints are awesome, cheap and convenient. If you hate mints youre a faggotIVs are the other way around. They are obnoxious as fuck, caps are always awful to get / farm and I wish everything about them should be erased from the game.Vitamins should also give more EVs or be way less fucking expensive to get
>>56889259>Unrelated OP Image>ITS CALLED MARKETING
>>56892789you could say it's...unconnected market(eer)ing
Why is there a /v/hug/ colony on /vp/
IV should've been removed as of gen 8 with the removal of Hidden PowerMints are a good addition especially with the introduction of Marks in wild encounters in the same generation>>56889460also this
>>56893284is it really that surprising that pokemon and touhou fandoms cross paths? everybody recommends playing Puppet Dance when anybody asks about touhou fan games. nobody who isn't already a pokemon fan would consider playing it or recommending it. also they're both japanese games
>>56893284>>56893353Touhou also kind of has a connection to Pokémon through Toby FoxAlso wasn't there a Touhou in the leak files for some fucking reason? The timestop one, I forgot her name.
>>56889259>but maybe these elements need to be completely reexamined?trvthnvke, but gamefreak would rather add band-aid patches than address the issue directly.>IVslike you said, the idea was uniqueness - to add "genes" to a pokemon. this isn't bad conceptually, every 'mon being unique is cool, but it was never intended to be minmaxed. like you said there's ways to do this that don't just create objective (un)improvements.my pet peeve though is EVs. in a lot of cases i like to compare pokemon feature to common RPG elements, and EVs are no different. EVs are like IVs in that they weren't intended to be minmaxed - they were just your pokemon's "muscles", and depending on how you trained you'd grow different muscles. but they also serve the purpose of party unit customization, kind of like "select a stat to receive a bonus when you level up" in RPGs - they let you tune your pokemon to how you want to play, and unit customization is a big draw for me in RPGsEVs however are DOGSHIT at being this in an intuitive and engaging manner>first off, we aren't going to explain this gameplay element any further than maybe one or two NPC lines vagyely referencing "effort", so go fuck yourself>also, to customize your stats, you have to KO these pokemon, and these pokemon only. no we won't tell you which ones give which stat.>also, correcting mistakes in stat distribution is incredibly boring and obtuse since it's just wait for berries to grow, so fuck you if you bring your physical attacker to the psychic gym and they get useless SpA EVsagain they weren't INTENDED to be unit customization but it seems as though gamefreak wants them to be nowadays, and i say just overhaul it entirely and go all-in.
>>56891680I said this during the SwSh era, if they're adamant on keeping Dexit, then that would be the perfect excuse to bring back Stadium.GF can keep making Pokédexes with 400 Pokémon in them, but every Pokémon can still be used in the hypothetical Stadium game.
>>56893689 (You)also, i forgot to mention, IVs and egg moves making breeding optimal turns the gameplay from "oh boy, i'm going to catch these pokemon and grow a bond with them as we battle and train together" to a eugenics simulator - which runs way too counterpoint to the "muh friendship" bullshit that, like it or not, pokemon is an avid user of. if they want the friendship feel, it should be possible to take any 'mon caught anywhere, and give it that species' best options.
>>56893400you're thinking of Sakuya but where in the leaks was this?
>>56889259Needs a complete overhaul.IVs are just an pointless "You must be this autistic to play pokemon" bar that people only tolerate because of bandaid solutions. EVs are a clusterfuck. An arbitrary number assigned essentially randomly in normal play which to get proper use of requires you to kill numerous early route shitmons under ideal conditions with lategame items. Natures, what is supposed to be a flavor detail is a dice roll decided flat 10%buff/debuff which in pratice is just a 10% buff because with very few exceptions there will always be a stat you don't want to use which can get the debuff so you suffer no downside from it. Base stats, grandfathered in numbers that decided this pokemon is always going to be shit and serve to keep the previous outdated mechanics around by association.None of them are worth keeping. The IVs should increase like EVs do with no arbitrarily limit. Just an all around buff your pokemon gain from normal training through the game to show their growth.EVs/nature should be condensed into one thing. Call it a fighting style and let players change it with a scroll, a dojo NPC change or just swap it in the menu. You could go with just a flat 10% boost to 1 stat like we have with natures, or you could make it more interesting and have things like offensive(+5% both attack/spatk and -5% def/spDef), defensive for the reverse. One for both physical stats and both special stats. Make them require a sacrifice that the player will actually notice.Base stats should just be redone from scratch. Doesn't even need to reuse the old 255 system. Make them more modern. The actual numbers and how they decide to calculate them are irrelevant as long as the pokemon still performs the same role. A large scale rebalancing is far overdo.
>>56893353i dodn't reccomend pdp. its souless. the romhacks are better.would be nice if there was a touhoumon another world version where the monsters are pokemons, and just the world is gensokyou.
>>56895112wow usually i'm the one posting this. glad to know i'm not alone in thinking the romhacks were better
>>56895139how can anyone like pdp, the attack animations are so repetitive and the routes are too long. i usually give up at the volcano.
>>56895188i've never even played it, one look at the art tells me all i need to know about how the soul is gone. doesn't look or sound anything like pokemon
>>56895224It's more for Touhou fans than it is Pokemon fans, it's a way different experience compared to Touhoumon hacks asking the question "What if the Pokemon were Touhous?".Plus it had the novelty of being less restricted at the time, but now that we've have Emerald, FireRed and Crystal blown wide open for awhile now, the hacks can unironically do so much more than a homemade game engine, including being able to fit in literally every 2hu, a generous amount of evolutionary branches, and whatever other flavors of unique novelty you want your hack to have in order to stand out.
>>56895822touhou fan here. touhoumon purple is still the best, and touhoumon another world is better gensokyo than pdp.
>>56893750I don't know the file path but the file name is 妻 咲夜1.jpghttps://arch.b4k.co/vp/thread/56800769/#56800906
>>56895139same here, it is neat to see the original hacker make his own game and draw porn but the hacks are genuinely a good alternative to the regular games, especially ones like heartgold which fixes the level curve. the branching evolutions are basically the highlight, you could use the same mons twice but use a different branch to see how that one works.
How about making IVs be temporarily maxed out or even randomized during battles that don't award EXP?
bump
>>56889259People discussing these mechanics and the problems with them often appear to lack perspective.Why do we have IVs? A lot of mechanics in Pokemon stem from its nature as a numbers-based Role-Playing Game. Said numbers serving to abstract mechanics inspired by reality; experience points to give you that feeling of growing through experience, various statistics like attack and defense flavouring various qualities you could find in a character participating in activities like combat, et cetera. Pokemon is pretty meticulous about crafting this sort of simulated-by-numbers world within the game. IVs, as many are quick to point out, are there to further differentiate individual characters (monsters) from each other statistically. Ever since gen 2, they've also been connected to the monster breeding mechanics of the series, to simulate that experience of raising creatures from the ground up, and maybe even raising them for specific purposes by engaging in some light eugenics, to get that highly successful bloodline of race horses, or sport-battling monster teams as the case may be.
But for the longest time, both players of the games, and increasingly over the years, the developers themselves have chosen to ignore that in real life, perfection does not exist. The players demand shortcuts, they demand less time investment in these real-life-inspired timesink activities that should by all means never be truly completable (aka, perfect IV Pokemon should never have been realistic to achieve). And the developers indulge by adding new, completely divorced from real-life inspirations mechanics like magical weeds that can alter a creature's capabilities at their core level, or God-coaches who with a flick of the wrist help the player's monsters achieve that 'perfect' level of potential, something the player's trainer character would never have achieved on their own.Truthfully, eugenics, the act of 'training', and the pursuit of perfection SHOULD be a never-ending timesink for anyone dumb enough to engage with them in the vain hope of reaching what they believe is 'perfection'. But we're long past the point of return; ever since the dawn of cheating devices and battle simulators, everyone simply expects that anyone competing in Pokemon PvP has access to ideal monsters.
>>56899650>>56899657very good writeup, agreed with everything it's kind of been a similar story with shiny pokemon but part of me chalks it up to shiny reaction videos blowing the fuck up around gen 6 due to how much shit they gave you.
>>56900706When it comes to shinies, it's at least immediately understandable that dangling a literally shiny set of keys in front of a playerbase who's already into a franchise about collecting cool things is an obvious boon to marketing, and so shiny Pokemon have been increasingly harnessed to that end. But the collective mindset of the people regarding competition in Pokemon and the subsequent perversion of the Role-Playing aspects is clearly something most don't actively think about or acknowledge.
can't let a touhou thread die
I think Natures are annoying, and always have been. You can say that it doesn't matter for single player, but it definitely does if you're attempting stuff like Battle Tower. It sucks that my Adamant or Brave Alakazam is just arbitrarily worse than normal.I feel slightly vindicated seeing complaints about it in the Gen 3 leaked documents.
