Is Ash a fraud? I’ve been rewatching Indigo League for the first time in a decade and it stuns me how often he is handed his ass and then just given a badge for being a decent person afterwards I’m only on the boxing ring episode but like let’s count em>Had to be given super secret treadmill training to Beat Brock, but DID beat him, albeit with sprinklers >was Fighting Misty, but didn’t finish the match and was going to accept it without a fight anyways from her sisters >Did beat Surge genuinely without help or interruption from a third party.>Didnt even beat Sabrina. Haunter just made her laugh too hard to go on and Haunter wasn’t even participating. Pikachu was cooked>Was given a badge by Erika after their battle was broken up by a fire
>>56935275Ashpulls:>Brock with sprinklers>Surge with muh tail>Blaine with Pikachu KO:ing RHYDON with lightningPity-wins:>Misty after he beat Team Rocket>Erika after he beat Team Rocket>Sabrina after Haunter made her laughLegit wins:>KogaIt's been ages so I don't remember how Giovanni went, but Ash only had 1 legitimate win out of 7, 3 being contrived Plot Ex Machina Asspulls and 3 being him just given the badge out of pitytl;dr: Ash is fraud and shit trainer
>>56935275> Ash would have beaten Misty if the battle continued or Pikachu battled from the start.> Erika's Gloom's entire strategy was using its smell to KO its target which didn't even make any sense & Pikachu would have been unaffected since its friends with it.> Ash defeated Lt Surge, Blaine and Koga fair and square.> Giovanni himself was a cheater using Mewtwo for all the fights.Brock and Sabrina was the only true pity badges.
>>56935573>Zero mentions of the current anime>Gonna mention Likofags anywayObsessed
>>56935592>Blaine>fair and square when Ground-type gets knocked out by electric attackLmao
>>56935468I've watched indigo league atleast 5 times and never actually seen koga just flashback scenes of it, are the episodes taken out of major streaming platforms or something?
>>56935739Not sure about that, but Porygon, the swimsuit show, and one or two others seem to be missing from Netflix
>>56935275season 1 of the anime was about world-building and ash's character developmentit isn't til orange league and beyond that he starts training.brock and misty constantly ridicule him for getting the easy badges. he also clears an easy win with a krabby/kingler that prof oak spent 99% of it's post-capture life training and then gets a massive head over it, leading to charizard jobbing to humiliate him. ash still loves his pokemon (part-way into season 1) but he's a complete novice when it comes to raising pokemon and battling, and if he actually had the skill he would have become gary oak 2.0; another big fish in a small pond going no where.
>>56935709Have you watched the episode? Ash defeated Blaine when his Charizard KO Magmer .
>>56935709>fair and square when Ground-type gets knocked out by electric attackanime rules say that can happen, there's also a marowak that gets hit with thunderbolt and k.o.'d sometime later in the show, right before indigo league iirc
>>56935807>krabby/kingler that prof oak spent 99% of it's post-capture life trainingProfessor Oak didn't train Ash's pokemon, he was too busy for that. At best Kingler as Krabby did housework for Professor Oak.
>>56935275He still earns badges, just through nontraditional ways. People think XY anime was shonen when the original was just far superior and more reflective of those types of anime. Ash is unconventional and weak, using pokemon that aren't fully evolved, however it's shown they're like that because they DON'T want to evolve, and he forms strong bonds with them because of that. So the way he earns some badges may not be through traditional fights but they showcase how adaptable he is and suit his varied team.>was Fighting Misty, but didn’t finish the match and was going to accept it without a fight anyways from her sisters This is a good point actually against badges. It's unknown how much worth they even have in the anime. I mean, how do you even accurately define them and their strengths? Gary had like 12.Also, although it didn't want to fight Misty, he would have easily destroyed the water type gym leaders with pikachu anyway. So he actually has a more serious fight.
>>56935849Doesn't change the fact that it happened earlier in the fight making it asspull instead of genuine win>>56935850And this kind of shit is the reason why anime isn't taken seriously
>>56935965"shonen" typically just means "thing I don't like".
>>56935275He's meant to be inexperienced throughout the Indigo League until the Orange Islands.He's supposed to be the underdog pulling off crazy or unconventional miracle victories over trainers who he'd be expected to lose against.I think the fact Charmeleon/Charizard disobeyed him all the way through Indigo League showcases he just lucked out and made it further than he should have.
>>56935468>Misty after he beat Team Rocket>Pit winExcept that's wrong. Ash was winning and about to knock out Staryu when Team Rocket interrupted. Further, Misty wasn't the one who gave him the badge - it was her sisters, who further rightfully pointed out that the only reason Misty could put up a fight in the first place was because Pikachu refused to participate.>Legit winsYou forgot Blaine and the Earth Badge. Blaine challenged Ash to a 1v1, Magmar vs Charizard, and Charizard won. For the Earth Badge, Jessie, James, and Meowth were subbing for Giovanni with the latter's Pokemon, and even tried to cheat, but still lost.
You can get Sabrina's badge in Red & Green by losing and then going back to her gym, which is hilarious. Ash beating her by making her laugh is a reference to that.
>>56936465Can you really?
>>56935275> Is Ash a fraud?> I was the show back when he was a rookie and it was an absurdist comedy directed by a guy who used horse tranquilizer to brainstormC'mon be real for a second.
>>56936474Yeah it's a weird glitch that only applies to trainers in Saffron Gym. When you lose and then return to the gym, that trainer's post-battle dialogue will automatically play out and the trainer will be registered as defeated, even Sabrina.
>>56935468They couldn't have him and Giovanni fight so episode as I recall it>Gary decimates Giovanni (which I kinda have issue with as well since it makes No Mewtwo Giovanni look like a scrub)>Giovanni brings out Mewtwo and beats his team all at once>Giovanni leaves leaving Jessie and James in charge>Ash faces themSo it's pretty much no different than Misty and Erika as far as Ash is concerned
>>56935275Kanto Ash is just a regular kidBlame the gym leaders for tossing badges at him as participation rewards. Blaine is the only gym that actually fights Ash.
>>56936397>Except that's wrong. Ash was winning and about to knock out StaryuThey were tied. Staryu and Pidgeotto won their respective fights, but they never fought to decide the winner. It's funny, but Starmie the jobber was the only pokemon Ash defeated without using type advantage, as his other victories were using Chikorita, Bulbasaur and Pikachu. When he didn't take advantage of the type advantage, he lost to Misty.
>>56935965>Gary had like 12.This point keeps coming up and I want to keep reiterating that just because there's only 8 gyms in the games doesn't mean that's true in the anime as well. It's logical to assume there's at least one gym per type in each region, and in other regions rivals will obtain anime-exclusive badges offscreen while Ash goes to the game's gyms.
>>56935468>6 of the first 7 loses in some implausible or comedic fashion>this is the only reason he wins the badgeIf anything this makes Koga look like a fraud
>>56937817It's more that he didn't need to get more than 8 at all, since you only need 8 to get in the league. And since we know Gary got his butt kicked, it's not like however way he earned them helped him.
>>56937921the point was to show off. he got the required amount... and then some.because he's Gary.
>>56937849>jobs to Ash>becomes Elite Four member out of shameKWAB
Ash was a fraud who got cucked by shit writing who then only started to win by even shittier writing.Nothing about Ash, none of his victories, and none of his losses, are genuine.
>>56935275so if other kids took those pokemon already, why are their pokeballs still there?
>>56938808Oak put empty Pokeballs there to make a point.
>>56935275That's why he needed the Orange Islands when they realized how pathetic they made him out to be in the Indigo League.
Because is much easier to feel sympathy for ash if he's a loser underdog, than if he was an arrogant asshole with full powers.This is like storytelling 101.
>>56937965Plus, what the hell else was he supposed to do? Remember that the Pokemon League is a scheduled annual event in the anime, if the dude's gonna keep his team in top shape so he can be ready for when the day comes, of course he's gonna go tackle other gyms to broaden his experiences, especially when anything's possible in the League Tournament due to the wildcard factor of "whatever the hell all the other trainers bring and who I get matched up with".
how exactly Shudo's "lose 3 times you are out" rule was going to work for a gym leader? ok if the gym leader is just starting and lose 3 times consecutively they are out, but if the defeat the third challenger? the rule doesnt applies anymore? for example: and if the third challenger lose in the first try but come back for the rematch and defeats the leader, the leader will still be out? the rule only applies for those who are just starting or is there for those who has been in the charge for years?
>>56935979>Doesn't change the fact that it happened earlier in the fight making it asspull instead of genuine winWhich Ash lost anyway, furthermore the anime didn't start following the game rule properly until DP series.
>>56940694It's been a while since I read the translated book, but it might have been that they're allowed to lose three times and keep their job, but if they lose a fourth time they're fired. Also, it might have been consecutive losses that were the issues. I don't recall if the translations reached Cerulean City yet, but in the anime, I think the sisters lost to all three other Pallet Town trainers in a row. If it was losing three times in general or consecutively, the gym would have already been closed. Their Seel might have been sick though, but if handing out the badge still counts, they would have lost the gym. If it's four strikes, then that would especially explain why Misty was pissed off -- they'd have literally handed away the entire gym.
>>56935468First post? Best post.
>>56940093You can be strong without being an arrogant asshole.
>>56940694Shudo's novel was never canon.
>>56935275>jobbed in kanto, ran off to statpad in the orange islands>jobbed in johto>jobbed in hoenn>jobbed in sinnoh>jobbed in unova>jobbed in kalos>statpads in babby mode alola>statpads in a pity tournament made for him to winAsh Cuckitini
>>56935275>>56935468>>56935592I'm gonna defend the sabrina battle by saying by the anime's logic, if the opponents pokemon is unresponsive or unable to battle the match is considered a forfeit. Same as charizard refusing to battle in the kanto league. Alakazam was laughing too hard to participate.>But ash didn't actually use the haunter in battleYeah but he still brought it there, explicitly to help him defeat Sabrina. None of this would have happened if he hadn't found haunter. Even if it wasn't in the battle it was still part of his strategy.>Haunter was an outside element so it shouldn't count.A pokemon battle is all about the skill of a trainer to raise a pokemon. If you and your pokemon get so distracted from a vaudeville act that you are incapable of finishing the battle then you deserve to lose. It's not ash's fault that Sabrina decided to connect her mental state with kadabra (which also feels like cheating). She forfeited the match through her own lack of composure and ash won. Even if it's only through a technicality.
