Third version games usually add extra content, including whatever content the devs couldn't finish in time for the initial pair games. I'm a big fan of Gen 2, but I want to ask: why didn't Game Freak add in Crystal the unfinished content from Gold and Silver? Gold and Silver are amazing games, but they had a lot of unfinished content like:>Butchered Kanto locations like Cerulean Cave, Viridian Forest, Seafoam Islands, Pewter Museum, Safari Zone, etc.>Some extra mini games found in the Spaceworld demo>etcSo I want to ask, why didn't Crystal add these missing features? If the game cartridge capacity was indeed a problem for Gold and Silver because they didn't have enough space to add anything else, wasn't Crystal on a bigger capacity cartridge?Crystal did add some great new features like the Battle Tower, moving sprites, extra plot, Kris, etc. But I keep wondering why couldn't they also solve the problems from Gold and Silver mentioned above.What do you guys think?
https://tcrf.net/Proto:Pok%C3%A9mon_Gold_and_Silver/Spaceworld_1997_Demo/MinigamesThese are the mini games from the Spaceworld 1997 Demo. I honestly wonder why they were cut.
>>57019577By the time of crystal the fad had ended, they could just phone it in.By the way>If the game cartridge capacity was indeed a problem for Gold and Silver because they didn't have enough space to add anything elseThis was an issue before optimisation, after they did that they had way more room to work with.
>>57019620So, with Crystal, the devs had more than enough capacity to add additional content and features, but they didn't want to?They probably thought that Crystal was complete as it is?
>>57019632"the devs" is exactly Masuda, you know how he is. It's not like Morimoto, who set the standard for third versions with Emerald that later applied to Platinum and a lesser extent B2W2/USUM. Also, the only previous third versions were Blue, which basically added nothing but less bad graphics, and Yellow, which was basically there entirely for marketing reasons, so it's not like Masuda really had a strong idea on what to do with the third version. As it stands, the online shit seemed to be the focus of Crystal, which you would never know outside of Japan. It's hard to make an online game now, let alone for a portable 8-bit console which has zero standard capability for it.
>>57019577the problem is that you’re assuming the game is unfinished
>>57019632>>57019649Actually, looking at Masuda's later first versions like DP and XY, online features existing seems to be an important standard he seems to want to hit to the exclusion of almost everything else, which is an interesting pattern. He probably would have shoved it into FRLG if the GBA weren't a failure.>>57019654There are some balance issues that Crystal doesn't address, but it's not like Dragon Quest 2 levels of bad so they don't bother not even in HGSS. They were correct in erring on the side of easy, they probably played DQ2 and knew exactly how bad a too hard untested endgame is (and never played Maka Maka to understand what anti-climax is because holy shit). Not to mention functionally unfinished Pokemon sprites that Crystal does fix, because they were adding those fuckers down to the absolute wire (which again explains some of the balance issues). Outside of that it does mostly seem to genuinely be a space issue, there could never be more than 255 Pokemon as the biggest example and even after Iwata's miracle working it's still an incredibly large game for the standard cart size and that shit can get expensive especially back then (even if I'm sure Nintendo would have been more than willing to foot the bill during Pokemania).
>>57019654>the problem is that you’re assuming the game is unfinishedAre you talking about GS or Crystal? I do think that GS feel unfinished (like most initial pairs, really). And about Crystal, I'm not sure, I'm just wondering if they could have added in Crystal these features that I mention in the OP.I guess my question is: were these features and locations scrapped, or is it that they just couldn't fit them on the Crystal cartridge?Or is the Crystal cartridge a bigger capacity than the GS cartridges?
>>57019577i feel like in gen 1 & 2 GFs conception of generations and 3rd versions hadn't really solidified yet, they were still experimentingcrystal was at least a bit of an improvement over yellow, yellow adds basically nothing worthwhile
>>57019854I feel like Crystal is the first REAL third version. Mainly because it added the first ever Battle Tower. I think that's really important.
>>57019860yeah true. japanese crystal also had connectivity with the mobile adapter that let you access online features. it was like an early version of the GTS & online battles.we never got that though.
>>57019915Yeah, you're right. But personally I only care about the single player content, so I don't really mind not having access to the Japanese mobile features in Crystal.
>>57019654I guess you're right. Maybe the devs considered Crystal "complete" which would imply that they had no intention of expanding the missing Kanto locations in the first place. And, as for the Spaceworld demo mini games, maybe they just chose the mini games they considered more fun for the players, and scrapped the rest of them.
>>57019855>>57020587Get your family something they want this year for christmas.
>>57019860Blue version was the first third version, but it was more just polishing up issues with Red and GreenOur Red and Blue is just Japan's Blue, so we technically got 2 third versionsYellow was made as a bonus that added some Pokemon anime flare onto the events of Gen 1 for those that were into the animeBut yeah, Crystal is where they got their real idea for how to make third versions, as it actually includes new plot and content, which gets followed into Emerald and PlatinumConceptionally while Black 2 and White 2 are direct sequels, they functionally act as a third version due to new content, but more obviously Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon are to their original games, despite removing things alongside adding othersObviously now SwSh and SV have DLC in place of third versions, so no longer expanding the base game, just adding new unrelated stuff on top of themMoral of the story is that XY got fucked because they didn't get anything till years later with Z-A, when it was pretty obvious there was meant to be a Z version that just got scraped
inb4 yawnfag
>>57019577Butchered Kanto is by design. Shits run down and underwhelming and a fucking volcano destroyed an entire island. It's all supposed to build up to what Kanto truly left behind which was trainer Red
>>57021177>Butchered Kanto is by designWait so, they didn't butcher GSC Kanto because of lack of space on the cartridge/ lack of time for the devs? That makes me feel much better about GSC, if it's true.
>>57019577Who cares man
>>57019577>why didn't Game Freak add in Crystal the unfinished content from Gold and SilverESL thread, out out out!!!
the big feature of crystal was the mobile thing which was cut even in Japan somewhat, the unowns originally played a larger role
>>57019577i like gen2 as a whole but i really dont understand people who act like crystal is so much better or anything and like youll have a worse experience playing the base gs. i honestly think crystal shouldnt have released outside of japan as 99% of the stuff added to it was related to the mobile adapter gb which never released anywhere but japan, the overseas version is just inevitably gimped of half its content as a result and kinda a scam. the only thing i can really think of being Actually better in crystal is kris and it being easier to get evolution stones. (and something that is worse in crystal is that you cant play it on an original gameboy unlike base gs, basically for no reason in the overseas version since the mobile adapter stuff got cut out)
>>57023809>i honestly think crystal shouldnt have released outside of japan as 99% of the stuff added to it was related to the mobile adapter gb which never released anywhere but japan, the overseas version is just inevitably gimped of half its content as a result and kinda a scam.I absolutely disagree with you. All the Crystal content that was connected to the internet feature in Japan, were ADAPTED for the West, allowing us to play all that content without the need for an internet connection.As an example: the Battle Tower is now unusable in Japanese Crystal, because the internet feature is gone now. But in Western Crystal, the Battle Tower is fully functional because it's not connected to online bullshit. So imo, Western Crystal is SUPERIOR to Japanese Crystal.
could a fangame add back in all this unfinished content you speak of? is there space for it?
>>57019620>By the time of crystal the fad had endedThe general nature and timing of Pokemon's popularity as a massive 1 year fad isn't really applicable to Japan, and I doubt that's how Game Freak was thinking about it. Part of the reason Pokemon caught on so fast and fell off so quickly related to how compressed the release schedule was in America. The Pokemon fad started all at once in the US in September 1998. At this point, Gen 1 had been going in Japan for 2 and a half years. When Yellow released in Japan, Ash hadn't beat Brock yet in the anime, and Red/Blue wouldn't come out for another 2 weeks.Crystal released in Japan a month and a half after Gold/Silver released in the US. Crystal was very much developed during the US hype cycle for Gold/Silver. Disappointment would not set in until later when all the translated versions were out and Game Freak realized half of the international audience for Gen 1 didn't buy the new game.I think that answers OP's question too. The age old answer you hear about Johto is that they hadn't really even conceived pokemon generations yet or figured out how popular Pokemon was becoming when they started developing it. So a lot of stuff from that build from 1997 that got scrapped when pokemania started probably was never going to come back because the whole development plan changed. And then they took too long making it, and added so many features that the last thing they were worried about was fitting more minigames on the rom.My headcanon theory for the changes to Kanto is that they just barely ran out of room during G/S and cannibalized Kanto to get a little bit more. Then they did it again with the expanded Crystal rom with all the Battle Tower and sprite animations.
>>57024025I think there IS space for it, but I'm not sure
>>57024080>My headcanon theory for the changes to Kanto is that they just barely ran out of room during G/S and cannibalized Kanto to get a little bit moreFrom what other people are saying in another thread I made, there actually WAS enough space on the Gold and Silver cartridges to add all of Kanto and its cut locations. They just chose not to do it. Either because they wanted to make Johto shine more, or because they ran out of time. But they DID have enough space on the cartridge to fit more content.
>>57019654sure, every game has concepts and ideas on the cutting room floor. You have to weigh how much it adds to the game though. The battle tower in crystal adds a significant value to the game. Another apricorn and pokeball from kurt, probably not so much.
>>57023362I care. People who actually play the games care.
>>57019577Why did you make the same thread twice?
>>57024025plenty of crystal hacks add hgss content, viridian forest, cerulean cavesome add a working safari
OP should be more concerned with the Switch games not having their flaws fixed in the DLC... Adding more areas and Pokemon (not all of them) is unrelated to actual flaws. In fact, the only game that seemed to be about fixing flaws was Platinum. It also lacked any real innovation aside from walking vertically in one area.As for Crystal, three things come to mind:1. Most players found GS Kanto to be a very cool surprise. They didn't obsess about what was missing, and Game Freak had originally planned a much smaller Kanto. So there was no "need" to fix the post-game.2. Crystal was very much made with the Mobile Adapter in mind. The point was the online features (including the Battle Tower), with Suicune, Kris, animated sprites and redesigned areas thrown in as nice extras. Non-Japanese players got the short end of the stick, but the offline Battle Tower was decent. They should have unlocked the GS Ball to begin with (rather than waiting 17 years), maybe using Stadium 2.3. The most downgraded Kanto areas involved legendaries, which were supposed to be exclusive to the Time Capsule. I think they should have fixed Viridian Forest and Mt. Moon (the latter wasn't even fixed in HGSS).
Stop complaining about old games, or I will haunt you.
>>57025648>Game Freak had originally planned a much smaller Kanto. So there was no "need" to fix the post-game.That's something I honestly hadn't thought about. And it means that the smaller Kanto that we got was a deliberate decision, not a result of lack of cartridge space. And this makes me feel much better about GSC as a whole.>Non-Japanese players got the short end of the stickI disagree. I think Western Crystal is SUPERIOR, precisely because its features aren't connected to online shit. Because online shit eventually gets closed.
