>Old gens>Difficulty is implemented by blocks in straight route lines >New gen>Timmy learns he's not prepared when his level 15 starter is BTFO by a lv 50 mon in the Blue Catfish Lake.So why do open world is bad again?
>>57110223Timmy beats level 50 mon anyways, and now the rest of the game is irrelevant.Whoops.
>>57110228This. Every large level jump is accompanied by higher level wild mons too.
>>57110228Based if i am not a Gary Stu/Mary Sue within 10 seconds of starting the game, It's game over.
>>57110228As opposed to before where…the entire game was irrelevant?
>>57110257When in gen 5 does this ever happen?I was always under leveled. You'd have to grind for a long time
>>57110223I hope they have level scaling soon
>>57110659Level scaling is an objectively shitty mechanic that makes every game it exists in worse.
>>57110223What's the benefit of an open world if the bosses don't scale with your level? Sure, you can challenge yourself to beat the third gym leader early, but then that just means the second gym leader is going to be even EASIER.
>>57110663Source?
>>57110668The benefit is that Game Freak doesn't have try.
>>57110670>put levels in game>proceed to put mechanic in game that renders levels pointless>”s-source?”
>>57110674OK but I was looking for an actual answer instead of ESL nonsense.
>>57110668>open world game>get some challenging bosses>linear game>get zero challenging bosses
>>57110659>I want every area and trainer to feel the exact same!No. Level scaling is shit and soulless.
>>57110684>walk to high level area>catch something>steamroll early areasWhen does it get hard?
>>57110679The teams would scale, and ideally at least the ace is slightly above yours. Also this >>57110668
>>57110684A linear game can have challenging bosses with a proper level curve. This version of an open world game can only be consistently challenging if you follow a guide to fight the bosses in order, otherwise you'll end up being overleveled for any bosses you skipped.
>>57110696>The teams would scaleSo you make levels and all sense of progression utterly pointless. Cool!>>57110697>A linear game can have challenging bosses with a proper level curveRetards like you think gen 5 has a “proper level curve” when the result is >>57110257
>>57110709Levels are still milestones for new moves and certain evolutions.
>yawnfag posts his hundred-hour grinded pokemon againRange ban when?
>>57110709Huh? I didn't say anything about Gen 5.
>>57110730I hope he does the post where he cries about throwing a Lv8 Clefairy against Blue, then gets caught when he lies about which floor of Mt. Moon it was obtained.
>>57110722Which become completely pointless when my opponents also get new moves and evolutions at the exact same rate.>>57110730>valid arguments are still valid even after I screech at the jannies to remove themWho knew?
>endless flamebait and thread derailment>valid
>>57110747Doesn't the postgame Teal Mask have a ton of battles against first-stage mons
>>57110766Yes. Pokemon are the same, but the levels are increased.
>>57110760>”why didn’t they make the game linear?”>because it creates bad game design such as *example*>”D-D-DERAILING FLAMEBAIT!!”Grow the fuck up.
>>57110772There was no example of bad game design caused by linearity in this thread, though.
>>57110776>>57110257
>>57110780That has nothing to do with the game being linear though, that's just from grinding EXP for hours with Lucky Egg like a retard.
>>57110780You being autistic and grinding on wild Pokemon for dozens of hours is not bad design.
>>57110783>>57110784>y-you grindedsource?
>>57110791Post your trainer card to show your playtime.
>>57110709I don't get it, do you want to be overleveled? Why do you care so much about level disparities anyways?
>>57110791Just do the math, there isn't enough EXP in the game to get that high without grinding against wild Pokémon or using a Lucky Egg.
>>57110795Pre-3DS games are bad because you can be overleveled, but level scaling is bad becuase then the enemy will match your level.
Are you guys really discussing the difficulty of a toddler-tier game?
>>57110795>do you actually want the mechanics in he game to matter?>do you actually want to have meaningful progress?Uh…yes?
>>57110802That's not what level scaling automatically means though. It could be as simple as (base) + 5x, where x is the player's badges. They wouldn't be forced to match your level.
>>57110806Yawnie automatically assumes whatever makes your argument sound the worst because he's a twat.
>>57110228pretty much, if you end up accidentally "sequence breaking" (quotes since there's technically no forced path) any "earlier" content you come back to doesn't scale up to match you, so it just becomes a checklisti dont think there should be scaling down, but scaling up should have been present
>>57110805>game bad because i'm a high level>game bad because enemy is the same levelWhich is it?
>>57110800Why would I not use Lucky Egg?
>>57110826Because it's a crutch that does nothing but make the game easier. By the same logic, why wouldn't you fight all the bosses in level order?
>>57110824>games like gen 5 are bad because there’s no difficulty>level scaling is bad because there’s no meaningful progressNothing about this is contradictory or difficult to understand. Open world games are able to accomplish difficulty and meaningful progress.
>>57110832>Open world games are able to accomplish difficulty and meaningful progress.Then why was Scarlet and Violet so easy?
>>57110832What meaningful progress is achieved by fighting Lv20 enemies at the end of the game because you just happened to skip the second gym leader?
>>57110829>Because it's a crutch that does nothing but make the game easierSo? It’s not my job to balance the game.>By the same logic, why wouldn't you fight all the bosses in level order?Because I gain an advantage from beating bosses out of order and I don’t know ahead of time which bosses are which levels.
>>57110836"Skip" implies you did so on purpose, and that you didn't genuinely miss it because the game requires a guide to not trivialize it.
>>57110839What advantage do you gain from beating bosses out of order, exactly? The reward of fighting a weak boss later on? Doesn't sound very fun.
>>57110659level scalling do not fit in pokemon games because you have actual pokemon that are meant to be caught early or late in the games
>>57110843So, when you happened to stumble across a Lv20 gym leader for your 8th badge, this was a rewarding experience for you?
i defeated the johto league with pupitar in HGSS pokemon has no difficulty
>>57110848That already went out the window in SV. You can catch anything in the ovverworld whenever you want.
>>57110855as an aside, why the fuck are pupitar's base stats 10 points lower than dragonair but the other two stages are equal for both
>>57110860>why the fuck are pupitar's base stats 10 points lower than dragonair but the other two stages are equal for bothGamefreak doesn't want to overshadow KANTOOOOO
>>57110806>>57110824I'm done arguing, these guys are great trolls
>>57110871Your concession has been accepted and relevant posts have been saved for future reference. See you again soon, same time tomorrow?
>>57110847>What advantage do you gain from beating bosses out of order, exactly? Levels. TMs. Saving time not having to backtrack to the map. >>57110836The meaningful progress is that I can fight the gym with my lv60 instead of a lv20.
>>57110641So you intentionally overlevel and grind. Should have named yourself “liar” earlier.
>>57110881Why do you want to fight a lv20 boss with a lv60 team? Doesn't sound very fun or rewarding, just sounds boring, just makes me wanna... makes me wanna... yaaaawwwnnn...
>>57110878No, I think you've gotten enough attention.
Damn, is defending XY’s difficulty that easy? All I have to do is accuse people of grinding and intentionally overleveling? I’ll keep that in mind next time.
>>57110881That doesn’t make sense. You waste more time grinding for the higher level boss and backtracking and beating earlier ones. It would be faster to just do them in order and gradually level up.
>>57110890You can beat any pokemon game without grinding
>>57110890Except it isn’t true in XY. You don’t have to do those things and it’s still lended to being overlooked without even trying to like you’re saying.
>>57110895>You waste more time grinding for the higher level boss Who said anything about having to grind?>and backtracking and beating earlier onesWho said anything about backtracking?
>>57110900>Except it isn’t true in XYIt isn’t true in BW either. What’s your point?
>>57110904>who said anything about [things I’d have to do according to me]
>>57110908Yes it is. You don’t overlevel by playing normally like in XY.
>>57110909Where did I say you would have to do those things?
>>57110916Define "normally"
>>57110916>like in XYNope. You have to grind and intentionally overlevel.
>>57110917You literally talked about backtracking to previous bosses and using lucky eggs>>57110918You may disagree, but six mons.>>57110920No you don’t. Even a full team still overlevels.
>>57110925> Even a full team still overlevels.Only if you grind and intentionally overlevel
>>57110929Or if you make the gamebreaking mistake of leaving EXP Share turned on.
>>57110929>>57110937I turned it off, used six, and was overleveled. Played the same way in BW and was leveled way more properly.
>>57110942Let's see that Hall Of Fame data, then.
>>57110949Someone asked you first. I sold all my Nintendo shit years ago. Go ahead and call bluff if you want, but my experience is a shared one in the community and is verifiable, while yours is fanfic tier that actual warrants demands for proof.
>>57110952>Someone asked you first.Who and where?
>>57110223Why the name “Blue CATFISH Lake”? Are they embracing animals now?!
>>57110970I know this thread is full of people that don't play the games but have you ever actually opened a Pokédex before
>>57110961see>>57110794
>>57110983Neither of the people involved in that exchange are me.
>>57110988Post screenshot of proof of that within three minutes or else that’s a lie.
>>57110993shit i didn't see this until now fuck fuck i can't make a screenshot that fast shit fuck AAAAA i ran out of time i'm a fucking failure :(
>>57110632Trainers should maybe scale upwards if you overlevel but not wild pokemon
>>57110223This game is awesome! I'm sorry /vp/, but y'all too bitter fr
>>57110942>and was overleveledBecause you grinded and intentionally overleveled.
>>57110709Progression in Pokemon feels good because of how your monsters grow. That gives you your sense of progression even if the bosses are scaled to badge counts and the like.
>>57110826>>57110839Do you grind playing games like Dark Souls or Elden Ring?
>>57112026>Progression in Pokemon feels good because of how your monsters grow.My monsters aren't growing in any meaningful way if my opponent's monsters are also growing at the same rate.
Difficulty is a meme, it's Pokemon. Either the AI is broken and/or uses competitive strats with perfect stats or it's easy. With that said, gyms/trainers/etc. should level scale in the open world games so things are appropriately leveled. Teams should also appropriately adjust based on the level they are fought at as well. For instance Brock as 1st Gym would have Geodude/Onix, as the 7th Gym he would have Onix, Golem, Kabutops, Aerodactyl, Omastar.
>>57113398Cook
I am gonna be honest, I enjoyed SV more then SM, SwSh and XY by a bit for this, but it being a memory leaking buggy mess, complete with Move and Dex cut and worst of all a story that fell apart for me the moment the DLC came out and decided to focus more on the feelings of an entitled NPC then the actual important interesting story bits severely handled my enjoyment. I hope at least that ZA will have more polish, but I doubt it will be better.
The game should bend over and let me assrape it freely no matter what team or strategy I use, even if it's a single Magikarp who only knows Splash.It's my game. I bought it with my money. My rules.
>>57113713With enough X+healing items and Tackle you very well could
>>57110223Little Timmy is a FAGGOT!
>>57110692they put restrictions on that
Open world is fine in concept, SV's problem is execution, SV's open world is too small and often doesn't feel like enough work was put into its art direction.Each zone of Legends: Arceus felt more carefully and purposefully designed than any part of SV's open world, Area Zero and Mesagoza are the only non-DLC parts of SV that actually feel about right for what they're supposed to be.
>>57113665What fucked Kieran's story for me is that Teal Mask forces you to go along with Carmine's retarded idea of hiding your encounter with Ogerpon from Kieran even though both of you know how much it would mean to himIt's like she's trying to turn him into a school shooter and you're dragged along with this clearly horrible ideaKieran feeling like he should own Ogerpon is a bit much, but your own claim amounts to "well Ogerpon chose me because I helped it -- after willfully and knowingly excluding you from the opportunity to help it even though I was supposed to be your friend, so it COULD have chosen you if I hadn't dicked you out of it for no reason"
>>57113245...i think you have autism
>>57113245That's what happens anyway in a linear game, moronThe 7th gym leader is a much higher level than the 1st one (even tho it doesnt makes sense lore wise), which is a fixed linear version of level scalingHaving them scale is the exact same but you can do the gyms in any order
Bullet SeedBullet SeedBullet Seed
boomers will never admit open world is the better format
>>57110223>titan scalingits stupid fucking easy, just have 5 different versions of each titan, corresponding to 1st thru 5th titan fought, and have a variable in the bg that counts how many titans were fought.>variable is set to 0?Use the level 15 titan>variable is set to 3?Use the level 45 titan>variable is set to 4?Use the level 55 titanLevels not exact, but they do well enough for a romhack ig
there should be 2 difficulty options1 that doesnt scale2 that scales with better enemy teams and itemsits that shrimple
Single battle format for the story is the biggest thing hampering the difficulty of Pokemon
>>57114024>That's what happens anyway in a linear gameThanks for agreeing open world games are better.
>>57114101I think even GF is realizing this considering how Indio Disk was all doubles.
>>57114082or just have one difficulty option without scaling because scaling is objectively shit
>>57115253enemies should always scale 50 levels above you so we can finally have some difficulty
>>57110223It works in your example because the world is zoned for specific levels, and thus progress is blocked off based on the relative difference in power and your own means of cheesing shit and abusing the mechanics as much as possible. The problem is most open worlds aren't like this (or at least not anymore), they all go for either the Oblivion approach where the world matches your level no matter where you go so you could be at the endgame area and fight a bunch of goons with twigs, or they're "open" world in which you can't actually go anywhere until the developers decide you can go play in the next area.
>>57110709Unfortunately for you, I'm at the end of another Black playthrough, and I can say from experience that you're a lying faggot. It is as >>57110632 describes, usually underleveled. One contextless screenshot is not evidence of shit
>>57116496>I'm at the end of another Black playthroughWhere you spent the entire game wasting exp on shitmons that you eventually dumped into the PC just so you could have a perfectly even team of 6 the whole game for zero benefit, yes.
>>57110668I literally cannot fathom how dumb you have to be to say shit like this. You people literally only play pokemon and nothing else huh. Did Elden Ring scale bosses to your level? Did BotW/TotK scale their bosses? Does the ender dragon scale based on your gear? Does Baldur's Gate 3 adjust encounters and bosses to fit your level? Literally ZERO of the best rpgs do this, only slop like Skyrim scale to the player, and everyone hates that about it. I can't believe this is even a debate for pokemon.
>>57116524Those games arent all about levels unlike Pokemon where levels are the difficulty.
>>57116553Pokemon isn't either.
>>57116569...what is it about, then?
>>57116569Yes it is.
>>57116573Pokemon.>>57116578Oh yeah, it's impossible to beat someone thst outlevels you, dumbass?
>>57116583Yeah it is.
>>57110257>>57110709Fake and gay
>>57110223I like it better than the old games where you had to drag HM niggers to get anything done. It's also the only main game with any kind of tension if you blindly explore and find yourself surrounded by high level Pokémon. It finally gave me a reason to carry pokédolls.
What person that isn't a grade schooler funnels all their exp into one or two mons in a casual playthrough? You're literally just neutering any potential for anything interesting happening when all you're doing is hyperboosting a single mon to sweep every single trainer you fight.
>>57116511>the same yawnie non-sequitur he makes every threadYaaaawn. Enjoy your last (You) from me.
>>57116601Theres nothing interesting happening in the tutorial campaign. What is interesting is completing the Pokedex after, shiny hunting or playing against real people in tournaments.
>>57116601It’s not my job to fix the game’s poor design. USUM already solved the issue of punishing people who only use 1 pokemon.
>>57116601The campaign isn't meant to be interesting. It's meant to be entertainment for toddlers. The real intrigue is PVP.
Endgamefags are the worst, never reproduce.
>>57116619The campaign is what matter the most in every JRPG, Pokemon is no exception
>>57116629Pokemon isnt an RPG.
>>57116611>USUM already solved the issue of punishing people who only use 1 pokemon.Then why can people do solo runs?
>>57116632>Pokemon isnt an RPG.
>>57116611They didn't do a very good job of it considering the speedrun is 90% Hawlucha from an in-game trade blowing up everything
>>57110257>DSslop>beforeDo zoomies really?
>>57113713>he can't solo SV with a single Magikarp who only knows SplashSkill issue.
>>57110223Open world isn't inherently bad, SV is just a shitty execution of it.>lack of level scaling with gymsHaving this would've made sense, since part of the appeal of open world is freedom to explore. You don't have to have scaling, but you have to limit where the player can easily go and balance obstacles accordingly (i.e Elden Ring which isn't a great open world either frankly, but it does a better job than SV >game simply sucks at immersionThe 2D games were able to leverage the player's imagination through abstraction, but that takes a lot more work to do in a 3D environment. Especially in SV where distance is meant to be literal. The 3D models look weird, the world lacks detail, towns don't make sense, and fully made items are just littered about. Ironically, a crafting system for more than TRs would've been appropriateFrankly, they should either stop chasing the open world trend or allow GF to finish their fucking games
>>57116642Hes retarded, but it's not an rpg.
>>57116786>making levels pointless would have made senseStopped reading there.
>>57116786Important trainers raising up to where you are is the best solution.
>>57110632It happens if you grind for 12 hours with every single crutch imaginable and then complain the game is too easy. Like no shit sherlock, you intentionally made yourself too overpowered and the game is no longer fun to you. Maybe you should, oh I don't fucking know, play the game properly?>>57116601Speedrunners. And even then they actually plan their routes ahead of time. Yawnie just grinds for 12 hours after every badge and acts like he's above them.
>>57116833>It happens if you grind for 12 hours with every single crutch imaginable or simply don’t waste exp on training 6 pokemon evenly the whole game
>>57116843No, you grind. It's impossible to get such a level gap otherwise.
>>57116833I had speedrunners in mind, yeah, hence putting the "casual playthrough" in there. Pokemon speedruns can be cool (Colosseum and XD in particular) but it's obvious to anyone that the games aren't designed to be played in this way.Even in the games that supposedly started punishing you for solo runs they're still painfully easy because level advantage + items makes you autowin almost any scenario. The only roadblocks are when you have type disadvantage against a boss like Ultra Necrozma. And even then, that thing folds to a Zorua disguised as a psychic-weak mon.
>>57116854>No, you grindThere are multiple gifs that prove otherwise.
>>57116803
>>57116872And yet you've never posted your playtime.
>>57116879How is the playtime relevant when the gif shows exactly where the exp is coming from? What a strange cope.
>>57116892Because there's clearly gaps in between.
>>57116897Point out where the gaps are.
>>57116900Why are you so afraid of posting your playtime?
>>57116879
>>57116918>40+ hoursLMAO
>>57116918>XY has more playtime than the gen 5 gamesUnovasisters…I thought our games had more content?
>>57116918>all around 40 to 50 hours inUh oh Yawnie! The Grinding "accusations" aren't so bullshit now!
>>5711692640 hours for the campaign + postgame content is perfectly reasonable. Find a better coping mechanism.
>>57116906Why are you so afraid of posting where the gaps are?
>>57116941Because I have all of your gifs filtered because your posts are so transparent.
>>57116932No, it isn't
>>57116948>Because [cope excuse because there aren’t actually gaps]Concession accepted.
>>57116932I thought you hated postgame yawnie
>>57116956That was debunked.
>>57116956>posts an image that proves 40 hours is reasonableUh...thanks?
>>57116963How was it debunked?
>>57116967For the campaign, not for the post-game
>>57116974But it is reasonable for the postgame.
>>57116968By playing the game.
According to sagie’s logic, XY and USUM require even more grinding to become overleveled
>>57116990Oh? Do you have any proof of that? Or are you going to just reply with >>57116918 saying that it, which was debunked by >>57116956, is proof in and of itself?
>>57117074>i-it was debunkedIt wasn’t though.
>>57117097Oh my, how was it debunked? Surely you have something more than playtime stats indicative of grinding, right?
>>57110228What a thrill...
>>57117131The playtime stats show that no grinding is involved, since postgame is included.
>>57117154And how do we know that postgame is included?
>>57117006Actually, it requires less, since the crutches are forced onto you in those games, unlike BW.
>>57117180By looking at the gifs instead of continuing to cope.>>57117709>Actually, it requires lessThe playtime suggests otherwise, according to your logic, sagie.
>>57117755You mean the games with more cutscenes interrupting the flow of gameplay have more playtime? Holy fucking shit. You've just said something groundbreaking. I have to change my opinion now.
>>57117781XY has fewer cutscenes and forced dialogue than the gen 5 games, sagie. But keep digging that hole.
>>57110659>>57111025Instead of rigidly scaling everything's level, getting badges should unlock more wild encounter tables alongside the base encounter tablr.An NPC can say something like>"Wow anon, you look stronger just from having that badge! I bet more powerful wild pokemon will even notice your strength and challenge you now!"Ripping apart a random Youngster's lv15 unevolved ratbirdbugs with your lategame team should still be a thing, but gym leaders are meant to be a milestone and they should absolutely have teams that scale based on your badge count.Pic unrelated.
>>57110679>put mechanic in game that renders levels pointlessI could see how it might make things feel pointless if it was elder-scrolls style "nearly everything in the game scales with your level", but what would be the issue with scaling it based on your progression through the story, based on things like number of badges or similar progress markers?You'd still end up with roughly the same difficulty (first gym leader has A # of level B mons, last has X# at Y level, etc), you'd just be able to explore the game in whatever order you choose
>>57118077>getting badges should unlock more wild encounter tablesDumb videogame logic ruins things. It's already bad enough that there were generations where we had to put up with the national pokédex unlock, we don't need that kind of shit again.
>>57118168do you genuinely have an issue with shit being unlockable? like, would games be better to you if you had EVERYTHING available at the start?
>>57118168>Dumb videogame logic ruins thingsBased retard
>>57118203NTA but there's more than a few genres where having everything unlocked at the start is preferable, but Pokemon is definitely one where unlockable stuff enhances the experience a bunch.
>>57118203Anon was probably born in 2010 when unlockable content was going out the window in favor of everything being paid DLC or microtransaction bullshit.
