Zamazenta is fine actually

>fanficshit
We here on /vp/ stick to ONLY metas approved by our LORDS and MASTERS at Gamefreak

>>57165918
>all hoenn mons dropped out of OU
hoennbros…

>>57165918
>fanfic
Why should I care?

>>57165918
Ban Gholdengo
Ban Kingambit
Ban Gliscor
Ban Kyurem
Ban Raging Bolt
Ban Waterpon
Ban Darkrai

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>>57165918
>Deoxys in UU
>mamoswine in RU
>torterra is PU even with shell smash
Pokemon has never been well balanced but this is a fucking joke. what even constitutes as “shitmon” anymore. It’s not even power creep more like power rape.

>>57165927
Hoeen was made before pokemon were made to be optimized. People just don’t talk about Hoenn’s shitters because johto is the designed scapegoat.

>>57165918
>Both Decidueye that low
next Greninja lol

>>57165956
Those pokemon are all over 15 years old
Times change, new pokemon get stronger, new strategies push old pokemon out. You can't expect everything to stay static

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Apologize.

What is the point of doing this fan fiction nonsense when VGC regulations and competitions are actually real and exist.

>>57165918
Revavrom is going places?
What happened
>>57165948
>Ban Gholdengo
>Ban Kingambit
Yes

>>57165971
Smogon's tiers aren't even based around pokemon's actual power levels, just usage as says in the op pic. Any random mon could become OU if it gets memed hard enough.

>>57165956
>torterra
It's too damn slow and its typing sucks. It was never going to make it. Dreadnaw is only PUBL.

So weather is dead?

>>57166049
>pecharunt has more usage than clefable and garganacl
when the fuck did that happen

>>57165918
>deoxys speed in UU
the power of fake cutoffs

>>57165956
>power rape
kek

>>57166001
Shift gear + filter made revaroom be able to invest in some bulk, surprised it was good enough to rise to uu when skarm hard walls it.

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>>57165918
>Good boyo is a hero that keeps disasters at bay in his lore
>Does the exact same thing in the metagame
Holy kino.
Jokes aside I think Zamazenta is a pretty healthy part of the meta, yes Body Press is retarded but it's easy to check and Zamazenta is one of the only things protecting us from Kingambit raping the meta until the end of time.
>>57165948
Gliscor is only a problem because Gholdengo exists, it and Shitgambit should be deleted from existence.

>>57166112
It gets a fire move now, doesn't it?

>>57165918
I was expecting Pecharunt to be shit

>>57166101
He's the best Zamazenta counter in the entire game

>>57166118
You're right, still alot of them run high horse power for heatran

>>57166135
Shame it doesn't have Stomping Tantrum to run both.

>>57165993
I never understand why this board hates game freak, loathes them and considers them trash- except for the official format. 6v6 singles is fun and the main way the game has been played for 30 years. VGC is hardly more balanced than OU anyway.

>>57166049
>3 and 6 are the only gens without a rep in OU
Hoenn bros... Kalosbros... What went wrong?

>>57166162
VGC is much worse-balanced than OU, but the people who play it have no other options so they put up with the shit situation of mirror matches every game.

Where UU stats?

>>57166049
Has Jimothy Cool made a video on Araquanid already?
I want some explanation

>>57166165
Pelipper DOE

>>57166203
It's a webs setter that can stick around for more than one turn.

>>57166049
The cat is not dropping

>>57165935
Hey Verlisify

>>57166297
Is Miraidon AG or

>>57166300
Yes

>>57166300
Yeah

>>57166203
he has

>>57166165
We’ll get our vengeance when megas return in Gen 10

>>57166203
Webs + Endeavor + hits pretty hard with Water moves

>>57166328
And Mirror Coat to round out its moveset.

>>57166297
Where’s CHARIZARDerino?

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2024-12/gen9ou-0.txt
>Total battles: 1005497

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2021-12/gen8ou-0.txt
>Total battles: 1042648

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-12/gen7ou-0.txt
>Total battles: 1788363

Smogon is dying.

>>57166165
>Sceptile finally gets a small buff with Shed Tail
>It's a banned move
>Many returning starters got huge buffs
>Hoenn starters got fucking nothing
>Kalos' starters got shafted as usual
>Even Grenigger the shillmon got nerfed to shit in multiple ways
Why does Gamefreak hate us so much?
>>57166297
The absolute fucking state of powercreep is just depressing by this point.

>>57166404
>>Many returning starters got huge buffs
iirc only the SINNOH starters got major buffs. Not even King CHARIZARD got anything of note this gen.

>>57165981
haha penis stats

>>57165918
Torterrabros I thought shell smash would save us...
it's over

>>57166404
Kalos starters got jack shit because they're literally getting Mega Evolutions in LZA, and the mechanic will likely make a formal appearance in Gen 10's postgame to co-exist alongside the Gen 10 gimmick, much like how Gen 7 had both Z-Moves and Megas.

>>57166455
CHADizard is biding its time because it'll get Mega Charizard Z and Mega Charizard A this year.

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>>57166569

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>>57165918
Gen 9 is so shit lmao national dex chads keep on winning

>>57166007
trying to judge mons based on power levels alone won't be feasible anyways
a mon's actual effectiveness depends on
>its stats
>its movepool
>its abilities
>its typing
>how well it fits into a team and/or benefits from teammates
>generation-specific mechanics
>its matchups against other mons in a format
>anything specific to format itself (this is why smogon's singles and doubles formats, as well as natdex, have separate tiering)
and more
there's so many nuances that it'd be impossible to accurately tier mons based on power level alone
only real way to tier mons is via usage which does have the potential for trolling but for the most part it's a better solution than arbitrarily assigning mons tiers in a vaccum and then having to manually re-make entire tiers constantly because some mons ended up being shit or overpowered in their assigned tier

>>57166365
Pokemon is dying yet the games are selling better than ever

>>57166657
Because the Switch has the best installbase of a Nintendo handheld since the original Gameboy.

>>57166404
>Why does Gamefreak hate us so much?
>us
I could give two fucks about those mons

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>>57166101
This is the set people are using

Counters Zamazenta
Outspeeds Great Tusk by one point and shrugs off Headlong Rush with Recover
Can pivot

>>57166564
Fake and Gay

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>>57166275
Hey Finchinator

I've gone through at least 30 accounts for reqs and haven't really come close. Should I try PU or something? I feel like I should be good at this game, and I'm just not.

>>57167691
he seems pretty based

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>>57167958
dilate

>>57166297
Mesprit terrorizing a low tier as usual

>>57167933
If you just started playing your goal shouldn't be to get reqs. It's to get familar with basic competitive concepts, gameplans and how different playstyles work. Use sample teams and get a feel for the tier. Think about your lead matchups. Think about what Pokemon are big threats on your opponent's side and which are the most valuable Pokemon to keep around on your side. Think what plays will win you the battle in the long-tierm.

>>57168009
I've been playing for almost 10 years. I'm aware of all those things and keep them in mind, but I still drop games in the 1200s. It feels like there's always some set I didn't think of, or calc I get just wrong, or play relying on a 90% accurate move or chance of full para that costs me the game. Maybe I'm impatient with my clicking, or still not familiar enough with the Palafin meta, but I just can't keep my play consistent, even though I should have all the knowledge I need.

>>57168032
Right now is one of the worst times to get used to the OU tier because a Uber is being tested for a drop and not only does it take some time to get adjusted to its presence in the tier for everyone it's not even guaranteed to stay depending on the outcome of the suspect test. But if you've been playing for this long and you still struggle in 1200 you're clearly doing something very wrong. Changes are you're not actually thinking about this stuff as much as you think you do and you just "play by feel" but your feel is terrible because not only do you not know the meta but you've never honed in a way that is required to actually succeed in competitive. You're not losing in 1200 because of a full paralysis turn or a missed move. Sure, there's always a chance to get screwed over by some random bullshit even at the bottom of the ladder but if it happens consistently it's a problem with your terrible plays and team choices and not RNG.

>>57168049
You're probably right about playing by feel. I think I may have just gotten so desensitized to the game after all this time that I believe certain plays "should" work, and when they don't well it isn't my fault, it was the matchup or whatever. I had a tutor some time ago that told me about keeping the Pokemon you need as win conditions, and picking off the opposing Pokemon that threaten that, and keeping ahead of the hazard game, and building and testing teams. These are concepts I understand in theory, but when I load up a game I still go "I'll lead Lando to get Rocks up, that's a neat trick" and just click with 5 seconds gone off the timer. Maybe I have ADD or something; it's so disheartening to understand in your mind how to play and win at a high level and know that you're capable of it, but when it comes down to brass tacks I can't get the job done.

>>57168101
Post recent replays and I'll try telling you what went really wrong in those games but more in the sense of "You should think about this" instead of "In turn 5 you could have clicked EQ" if you know what I mean. If you don't have any just make a new alt and play some games and post them here.

>>57168121
I'll try to get some and post them tomorrow if the thread is still up

>>57168134
Ok, do that. Obviously won't be a priority for me but I'll try to keep an eye on the thread. I assume the thread should be up long enough.

Why are smogon youtubers either
>trannies
>the whittest white guy imaginable
>pretending to be innercity thugs
I like the last two for background noise, but why do they all fall into these archetypes?

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>>57168388
>Why are smogon youtubers either
>>trannies
>>the whittest white guy imaginable
>>pretending to be innercity thugs
Kek it do be like that doe

>>57166108
Lemme guess. It's still above 3.4% usage, but dropped anyway because it's under 5%.

>>57168388
some are Indians

also there are a few misc smogon channels that get a few hundred views per vid which don't fit into those categories either.
because they're boring and have no personality gimmicks

>>57168388
>pretending to be innercity thugs
literally blunder. such a tryhard. always tries to act like he's some tough gangster pulling off some crazy gang shit. when in reality he's an indian complaining that he got twaved (but it's cool when he uses twave)

>>57168592
>4.032%
yeah

>>57168388
>why does a nerdy hobby attract geeks and weirdos

>>57167984
What does Mesprit do?

>>57166203
It's the most consistent web setter that's not completely dead weight after webs are up.
Niche use in scaring off Lando and Tusk under the right conditions, but that's pretty minor.

>>57167471
Why Dark over Fairy

>>57168388
Where does Haydunn fall under this?

>>57165948
Suspect them all at once ffs

>>57168970
Most call him excellent, but you can call him Haydunn

So how is anyone meant to see so many Pokemon being shit and consider using them? 1k mon and only 50 are usable

>>57169633
Like better Pokemon

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>>57166297
Arcaninebros... A-at least we're good in PU...

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>>57165956
>what even constitutes as “shitmon” anymore

>>57166297
>Lower tiers
>Ubers
Huh?

Do you think there will ever be a day that Mewtwo drops to OU, or are the 680's set for life?

>>57169717
I doubt it, unless we see gigantic shifts in power level across a single generation. Yeah, the Switch games have been power crept to shit but 600 points can only be allocated so many ways.
Even if its offensive power stops being impressive by OU standards, it's still pretty bulky and has the movepool to support it.

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>>57169717
>are 680's set for life
H-haha... Yeah...

>>57169645
Literally the opposite. The leaks proved it’s one a very small handful of Pokémon Game Freak outright hates, yet despite getting not getting any love from game freak’s it’s somehow decent in a tier and even better than Charizard

>>57169820
>somehow
Cooming all over everything with scarfed tera fire eruption will do that

>>57168388
what does whitest guy mean? I don't speak muttmerican

>>57168388
As if your fellow blubber mouth latinx amigos are any better border hopper.
>>57169717
I can see Solgaleo eventually dropping, possibly Giratina and maybe even Lugia, the state of powercreep is reaching nuclear levels by this point.

>>57170150
No way Lugia drops with that bulk, Multiscale, and recovery.

>>57170150
kek nothing new is dropping before suspect bans are freed

Genesect should drop
Naganadel too

>>57169717
680s haven’t been set for life since BW, when Kyurem-B was OU.

Also >>57169789 another box legend tier mon that was formerly Uber but is now UU or something.

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>>57169820
>it’s somehow decent in a tier and even better than Charizard
In ZU? Better than Charizard? Let’s not get ahead ourselves, here.

>>57170387
That must be outdated or at least partially inaccurate. People either play to win or use their favs. Either Typhlosion has genuine merit it over Charizard enough of the time to be used significantly more than it, or Pokémon fans as whole would rather lose using the franchise rapist than win using the most iconic pokemon in the franchise.

>>57169717
No. See >>57169789
Also Kyurem-Black with 700 BST was OU for 3 gens.
But anyways Mewtwo is definitely safe. It has a good stat distribution, its just heavily outclassed and walled in Ubers by Lunala and Necrozma and sometime Calyrex when its not banned.
If there is an Uber that might drop other than Zamazenta, it’ll be Solgaleo.

>>57168665
I think he's a spic
where the fuck are you getting indian from

>>57170638
he has said in some videos before that he has family in india

>>57170150
you're fucking insane if you think lugia or giratina will ever drop. even with all the power creep, calm mind lugia would still rape OU six ways to sunday.
there's just nothing you can really do against 106/130/154 bulk backed up by multiscale and 110 speed to outrun anything that could realistically threaten it.

>>57165948
Don't forget Dondozo, Zamazenta, Dragonite, Palafin, and Iron Valiant.

>>57165981
It's not good. The two reasons for it rising up are 1. it handles Zamazenta and 2. the recent rediscovery of haxmaxxing (which lead to Machamp getting suspected in Gen 4).

There's a trend among ladder players of abusing paralysis, flinches, and confusion to make sure the opponent gets as few turns as possible. Malignant Chain being a good move that causes confusion due to Pecharunt's ability makes it a prime suspect for haxmaxxing in Gen 9.

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Bring her back you cowards

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>>57166203
I'm an avid Araquanid user. Let me explain.
>Bulkiest websetter in the game
>Hits surprisingly hard with Water STAB due to Water Bubble
>Immune to burn
>People discovered Custap Berry + Endure on it letting it go first and hit Endeavor/set up webs/hit with Liquidation or Hydro Pump
>Can 1v1 most hazard removers in the tier (Great Tusk, Iron Treads, Cinderace). Loses to Corviknight most of the time, but depending on the set you can outplay and kill Corv without letting it Defog
Ribombee is faster and better on Hyper Offense teams that want to keep momentum, but Araquanid has way more longevity and power that makes it a better fit on Balanced/Bulky Offence

Why does GF feel the need to remove defog knock off roost and toxic from so many mons move sets.

>>57166077
Weather is too risky because you have to keep switching to shitmon like Pelipper, Tyranitar, and Torkoal. OU is so wacky these days that you basically cannot give up a single turn to anything that wouldn't be Ubers in Gens 1 - 3. The weather setters can only really come in on passive Pokemon like Alomomola, Pecharunt, Blissey, Clefable, Ting-Lu, or Iron Treads. But those Pokemon are so bulky that your Sun/Rain/Sand boosted sweepers aren't going to bust through them anyways.

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>>57170842
Nothing you say.....?
>>57170884
I've been using this lovely watery spooder since gen 7 and I really love it as well, I've had some success with Substitute sets with bulk and attack investment, Leech Life still doesn't do enough damage to KO most anything in 1 hit but it does surprisingly well in terms of combating a lot of other Water types and chunking a few key Pokemon that try to switch in like Ogerpon.

>>57168882
Everything. She's fat, she pivots, she hits decently hard for lower tiers, she has tons of utility (Encore, Stealth Rocks, Healing Wish, Trick, Trick Room, Screens)...

Mesprit is just shitty Mew.

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>>57169717
>Gen 10
Solgaleo, Dialga, Dialga-O, Regieleki, Magearna, Spectrier, Ogerpon-H, Terapagos, Landorus-I, Deoxys-N, Lugia, Zamazenta-C, and Reshiram drop to OU
>Gen 11
Mewtwo, Lunala, Rayquaza, Kyurem-W, Giratina, Chien-Pao, Chi-Yu, Necrozma-DW, Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Poison, and Arceus-Rock drop to OU
>Gen 12
Deoxys-A, all Arceus forms except for Fairy, Normal, Water, Ghost, and Ground, Kyogre, Groudon, Giratina-O, Zacian, Zekrom, Kyurem-B, and Calyrex-I drop to OU.

>>57170905
Unfortunately, non-Webs sets just aren't viable at the moment other than for surprise factor. Once people realize you're not running Custap Webs, it's a simple matter of bringing in Dondozo, Zapdos, Zamazenta, Kyurem, Dragonite, or any of the other number of threats that fuck you up.

Free Volcarona

>>57170946
Blursaluna?

>>57170984
It's not a legendary, but it's dropping in Gen 10 alongside Archaludon, Annihilape, and Iron Bundle

>>57170905
honestly i think lugia beats gambit the majority of the time even with 5 stacks of supreme overlord
like yeah there's some situations that let gambit win but in a vacuum unless it's specifically tera dark black glasses gambit doesn't win the damage race against tera ground earth power

>>57171015
If no tera Gambit wins, if both tera Gambit wins.

>>57171015
Kingambit doesn't have to Tera. ANY amount of chip damage on Lugia is dropping its Multiscale, which leaves it open for a clean 2HKO from Kingambit.
>252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 282-332 (67.9 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's the physically bulkiest Lugia set possible. Kingambit also has favorable odds to win with Kowtow Cleave (breaking Multiscale from full HP) into Sucker Punch 2HKO'ing Lugia.

That's also assuming Tera will be in Gen 10, which is highly unlikely.

>>57170863
>It's not good
>The two reasons for it rising up are [it's good]

>>57171186
There are plenty of good answers to Zamazenta already (Zapdos, Moltres, Dondozo, Alomomola, even fucking Toxapex). Trying to win through inconsistent cheese isn't helping anyone. More often than not, the confusion won't matter, and when it does net you a win it just pisses the opponent off.

I often found that teams with Pecharunt in OU were typically free wins, hell, Glowking presses Eerie Spell twice and Pecharunt is fucked, if Glowing has an assault vest it can eat a dozen unboosted Shadow Balls while dishing out a ton of damage and neutering the little shit.
Dealing with Zamazenta is not hard by any means, hell it can't do much against Ghost types, especially Skeleridge even with a few nasty Crunches, though Zamazenta is only as popular as it is for the most part because Shitgambit is still legal after all this time.

>>57166049
>Palamid not even OU
>Smogon trannies will ban it

>>57171652
>on spot #14 even though it has only been allowed for a few days of December and not the whole month
>also saying that #14 wouldn't be enough for OU status
this should be bait but this is /vp/ so not sure

>>57171792
Verlisify and his consequences have been a disaster for /vp/'s understanding of comp

>>57171647
>Eerie Spell
1-800-COME-ON-NOW

That aside, yeah, Pecharunt is free most of the time. It's an overrated shitmon that's used by bad players who hate Zamazenta but don't want to use Moltres or Dondozo or Zapdos or Dragapult.

>>57171949
>moltres
can be sniped by stone edge which is getting mroe common
>dondozo
very passive, hard to fit on most teams that aren't super bulky
>zapdos
it's good but not the most reliable answer especially if you have to hit hurricane
>dragapult
lol what, this can only really switch into fighting moves. pecharunt comes in on crunch. big difference.

>>57171986
>can be sniped by stone edge which is getting mroe common
Zamazenta has bad 4MSS so if it packs Stone Miss you can wall it with one of its other numerous counters. It needs Heavy Slam and Crunch to deal with Fairy types and Ghost types so there's something that will completely wall it on your team anyways.
>very passive, hard to fit on most teams that aren't super bulky
You can fit it just fine even if it is a momentum sink. Zamazenta is a momentum sink as well. Dondozo is just one that counters other momentum sinks like Dragonite, Zamazenta, and so on. The value proposition is skewed in your favor since almost every team is packing one such Pokemon, especially now with Palafin.
>it's good but not the most reliable answer especially if you have to hit hurricane
You have loads of chances to hit Hurricane, especially since Zamazenta isn't going to fight you due to Static. You win the matchup more often than not unless Zamazenta manages to land 3 Stone Edges in a row.
>lol what, this can only really switch into fighting moves. pecharunt comes in on crunch. big difference.
Dragapult beats Zam unless Zam predicts the switch and hits Crunch or you miss Will o Wisp

>>57172092
>or you miss Will o Wisp
moltres also has Will o Wisp

>>57171949
What? It's funny and when it works it really works, I've had long matches against stall teams were using Eerie Spell massively gimped their wall's recovery, it's all about exploiting an opening and using it to the best of your ability.
>People are refusing to run said Pokemon
Pult gets melted by Crunch and Zamazenta is more than bulky enough to ward it off (I guess it can run Will-o-Wisp? But that it's reliable due to switches and that deceptively shit accuracy), like the other anon said, Moltres gets deleted by Rock moves that Zamazenta is starting to run, Dozo is a fat fuck that just sits there, Zapdos is alright, but flawed
I found Corviknight, Skeledirge and Appletun (not as good as Hydrapple sadly but it does get the ever so important Leech Seed) cores on bulky teams good enough to ward it off in different ways.

>>57168156
I've played 10 games in a row on ladder, and literally all of them have been against unviable Karen teams. I'll try again to get some actual real replays soon.

>>57172139
The other option is Psychic Noise which outright lets you shut down their healing.

>>57172179
Ok, just post when you have some usable replays.

>>57166365
Gen 9 meta killed it

>>57172194
also ignores sub

>>57169945
You can't smell them through the monitor

>>57165918
polteageist is stupid, fuck shell smash

>>57166049
rillabros, we're next...

>>57172400
*tiering decisions

>>57173633
Just carry priority

>>57165918
Why does Smogon love dickriding Landorus-T so much? Nigga has been the most used Pokemon since B2W2 and not once has he been in Ubers.
Fucking Garchomp when he already got checked by Mamoswine and Weavile was sent to Ubers before Landorus-T.

>>57174955
Because it's not broken.

>>57174955
Landorus-T has never been an issue.

>>57174955
Things you need to deal with Landorus-T:
>ground immunity
>ice/water attacks
>stuff that doesn't care about Intimdate like every special attacker ever and even more niche stuff like Defiant
Wow, it's hard to figure out why a Pokemon that's natural checked by good and common stuff you already want on your team anyway isn't actually banworthy. Landorus-T has no real spammable attacks beyond EQ which every team needs answers for anyway and U-Turn which is punished by contact and is a 70 BP non-stab bug move. /vp/ is too braindead to understand these simple concepts.

>>57175003
Especially now that it doesn't have

>Defog
>Toxic
>Knock Off
>Explosion
>Rock Polish

>>57166365
>the last game with a full dex had more going on than those that didn't
wowie, almost like there wasn't a Nat Dex (actual fanfic meta) splitting the current-gen base

Pokemon Home has to make money somehow, so don't expect this to ever change.

>>57175015
Yeah, dealing with Landorus is just good teambuilding. It's stuff you would carry even if he wasn't in the tier.

>Machamp is now not allowed in DPP OU
>it's uber
fucking idiots lmao
Should have just banned Dynamic Punch on it.
Now we have to wait until they realize Jirachi is also super annoying due to Serene Grace.

>>57175047
>Machamp is uber before latias
clown world

>>57175047
Banning Dynamic Punch is effectively banning Machamp. It would have 0 use without Dynamic Punch. It's a slow Fighting type with no utility and no longevity. It doesn't get any healing moves (it doesn't get Drain Punch in any Gen), it doesn't get any entry hazards, it doesn't get Twave or Will o Wisp or any status move really. All Machamp does is hit hard with Dynamic Punch and hope the confusion lets it win.

There's a reason Conkeldurr completely replaced Machamp from Gen 5 onwards. Conk actually gets real moves.

>>57168665
>>57170828
indians pretending to be black online is apparently pretty common I just recently learned

>>57175047
>Jirachi which is a far bigger insult of a Pokemon than Machamp and infinitely easier to fit into any style of team with barely any support is still OU legal
>Latias is still legal in OU too
Fuck Smogon pedos, retarded subhumans.

>>57175698
It's pretty much just because everyone has gotten used to Jirachi since it's had like 40% usage rate for the past decade. All of the "top players" are used to her bullshit, so they're numb to the Iron Head haxx. They always slap Heatran on their teams anyways.

>57175704
>her

>>57175047
Yeah of course Jirachi is super annoying, but banning Machamp, and even suspecting him before that in the first place is beyond retarded.
Guess Jimothy's anti-CTC arc is going well

>>57175706
>100% female

>>57169644
well that's kind of why smogon has 500 different tiers
so that even a shitmon like jolteon can end up seeing high usage somewhere and being respected for it

>>57175716
>100% faggot

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>>57175047
surprised they're still balancing DPP OU
what are the bans again?
garchomp salamence latios and now machamp?

>>57175704
I've had more than one match of my Heatran getting paralyzed and eventually Iron Headed to death by Jirachi even with the quad resistance after some chip from spikes and rocks, I can't put into words how much pain I've experience because of that little piece of shit, to say I want it gone would do a poor job of illustrating how much I HATE it.
>>57175753
And a dozen abilities due to pettiness like Snow Cloak, Sand Veil and I don't recall if Ice Body is still banned.
The only one that felt justified was Dugtrio.

>>57175260
Ban dynamic punch outside of OU? They already restrict other moves don't they?

>>57175773
In general, Smogon only bans moves if the majority of Pokemon with that move are broken with it. Primeape also learns Rage Fist in Gen 9, for example, and Rage Fist Primeape is still a shitmon, so Annihilape gets canned. Houndstone was the only Pokemon with Last Respects until Basculegion got added in with an update, so Houndstone was banned until Basculegion came out after which it was unbanned and Last Respects was banned.

Dynamic Punch isn't broken on anything besides Machamp, and Machamp is dogshit without Dynamic Punch.

>>57175820
I see, a dumb philosophy since it could allow for more options, like having weekly/monthly fun-tiers that ban random shit. Then again I stopped playing showdown like a decade ago.

>>57175890
Banning specific moves on specific Pokemon leads to shit like Mewtwo being allowed in OU as long as it doesn't get to use Psystrike, Calm Mind, or Recover or Kyogre being allowed in OU as long as it doesn't get to use Water type moves.

>>57175651
Indians should all be banned from the internet

>>57172302
I don't really know what makes a replay usable, I just played some games on an alt and saved them all. Here are my losses, you can look up the username if you want to see the wins.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2274601525-4gr0hmq9icaxtq5ea6v5us5fh7uejgppw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2274605303

>>57175911
banning multiple moves that are otherwise normal on other pokemon that have them is much different than banning a move that is specifically broken due to a combination of things.

>>57176054
Did you build this team yourself or did you get it from somewhere? I assume you got it from somewhere but can't say I'm a big fan. Think it's a bit weak to Raging Bolt, especially with Earth Power instead of Earthquake on Landorus-T. Stall matchup seems questionable as well. Most of your firepower comes from setup but I guess you have Future Sight at least. Can't really pressure with Knock Off + hazards because you only have Stealth Rock. This team also seems to struggle a bit with Great Tusk switch-ins. I know that's why you have Earth Power on Landorus-T because Great Tusk is a bit rough otherwise but I don't like how reliant this team is on that.

As for the actual battles you need to pay more attention to your opponent's likely sets. Pokemon don't exist in a vacuum. You can't just look at your opponents team and think "Hmm Earthquake and Ice Spinner look really good here" because yeah, that's generally true, but everyone also knows that. Your oponent has zero Flying types or even Levitate users. It was very likely for him to have Air Balloon Gholdengo which is a common set anyway and something you should expect especially on Sticky Web. You start the match with Dragonite, click DD 3 times in a row and then tera Normal to get the KO on Araquanid. Ask yourself what exactly has happened in these first 4 turns. On the one hand you got 3 DD boosts which is obviously scary for the opponent. But on the other hand your opponent got up Sticky Web, not only broke Multiscale but got huge chip on your Dragonite and even made you tera early. What did he have to trade for that? His Araquanid whose main purpose is to get up Sticky Web anyway. Then he goes to Gholdengo and simply revenges you because you didn't factor in the obvious Air Balloon and were forced to click Ice Spinner. These 5 turns were hugely in favour of your opponent simply because you didn't factor in that he might have an Air Balloon Pokemon with such a grounded team.

>>57176278
I have a couple more things to say but going to wait and see what you respond first. You seem to desperate to immediately take control of the match while giving away tools like Multiscale on your Dragonite or even your tera.

>>57176278
Actually, specs Iron Moth plus Future Sight is more firepower than I thought so I take that comment back a bit. Still don't like the stall matchup that much but probably more doable than I initially thought.

>>57176278
It's a RMT and it does list Bolt as a weakness, but claims to beat stall every time. It's not the only team I use, but I have had some relative success with it recently and it's easy to just load up and play.

I admit that I got played by Air Balloon. That actually may be my biggest issue, I don't think enough about my opponent's team or items. I focus on what I have and what I can do and setting up my guys and sometimes I just pray that it's good enough. I do think of things like what if Ghold is Focus Blast or Psyshock, but I almost always get surprised by Scarf on any Pokemon. In my defense though, I led Dnite into Araq because that's what the RMT says is the best strat for it.
>>57176291
And I usually preserve Multiscale and Tera as much as possible. Even I know to never exhaust. That one game is an outlier in that instance.
>>57176322
I really like Specs Moth, but I think Quaq is a fairly inconsistent spinner. I tend to end up with Rocks on my side that I can't get rid of, which limits Specs Moth tremendously.

>>57176336
Yeah, maybe the stall matchup is actually fine. I kind of overlooked specs Iron Moth so as I said I'm taking that back. But I stand by everything else I said. Also you shouldn't take advice from an RMT so literally. I just looked up the RMT and it says
>Btw if your opponent is using :araquanid: webs, lead this guy and click dd a bunch of times, you might just win.
But what it doesn't say that this doesn't really work if your opponent has an Air Balloon Gholdengo. It also doesn't say you should use your tera early to be fair. Or if you really want to do that I guess you should have Fire Punch instead of Ice Spinner. I looked up your other replays and you do the same kind of poor plays in a battle you won: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-2274594425?p2

Basically the same shit. You DD a couple of times, use your tera and barely get anything out of it because your opponent has Air Balloon Gholdengo. I'm not saying you need to start counterteaming Air Balloon Gholdengo now on every team but if a set you use has such an obvious weakness you can't just expect your opponent doesn't have it. Generally speaking when you use something that has an obviously weak matchup you should assume that your opponent has the kind of set that makes it a weak matchup. If it turns out your opponent doesn't have the set in question then you can take advantage of that.

You also seem a bit desperate to make predictions for no real gain. In the second battle you linked, what exactly did you gain by clicking Aqua Step turn 1 against a Samurott-Hisui? I assume you thought he would immediately switch to Landorus-T but why he do that when he has a Primarina? Even Dragapult could come in on a Close Combat and scare you out but that's risky to do turn 1 so what you should have done there is click Knock Off. Would have gotten rid of the helmet on Lando if it had switched in. But gaining speed with Aqua Step is not doing anything when Primarina completely walls you.

>>57176369
The poor plays don't just stop there by the way. After you Aqua Step turn 1 you then CC expecting him to stay in because he already stayed in turn 1. Ok, I kind of get it. It's a low ladder opponent. They do dumb shit like that. But why didn't you simply click CC turn 1 then? Even if he had switched to Primarina that would have taken some chip damage. He then goes to his Landorus and reveals Rocky Helmet. That's annoying and limits your Rapid Spin opportunites. Switching out makes sense with lowered attack. You go your own Lando on Grass Knot, ok fine. But then you stay in and click rocks? You say yourself rocks limit your specs Iron Moth tremendously. Yet you seem more concerned with getting up rocks than denying your opponent to opportunity to set rocks? Here is what should have happened after that Grass Knot: A switch to Iron Moth. your opponent was not going to click Earth Power there. That was a relatively free switch to Iron Moth which would have then threatened a kill. Absolutely nothing on his team really wants to switch into Iron Moth. You have such a strong breaker on your team but you seem hesitant to make use of it early game when that's the best way to punch holes early on to then pave the way for your Dragonite and Kingambit. You switch into Slowking so you can safely bring in Quaquaval but you already know it's Rocky Helmet and has Grass Knot. You decide to Aqua Step hoping for the kill but it doesn't kill. Quaquaval gets taken out and you have no way to remove hazards anymore. Why make such desperate plays early on? If the kill had been guaranteed but then it turned out it was Passho Berry Lando or some shit, ok. But you knew the set, you knew it was physically bulky but you just clicked water move on a full physdef Lando. All this could have been prevented with much more careful early game planning. Go Iron Moth and not only do you either kill or threaten out the Lando but you also don't get into a position where you give up your spinner.

>>57176416
Another thing that's questionable is that after bringing in Dragonite you click DD twice. The first one was fine since you're slower than Samurott. But why the second one? Samurott often has Encore. I'm not saying I knew in advance it would have it but it shouldn't be a huge surprise. Even if it didn't have Encore what did the second DD accomplish? Lando is dead to rocks on entry so it can't Intimidate. Dragapult dies to +1 Ice Spinner. You couldn't have known about Air Balloon which made it even more certain that it would have won but that doesn't change anything. Late game Kingambit vs Kingambit was also poorly played. You have a fast Kingambit, your opponent has a bulky one. Chances are he was going to win that exchange anyway but why the fuck didn't you SD first? Could have pressured earlier on. Should have also clicked Sucker Punch when he was at +2 because that would have guaranted you got damage off for Dragonite. Since you were faster his Sucker Punch would have failed.

>>57176369
Air Balloon Ghold is one of the few mons that would stop that sweep. If it was something like Corv, I would've noticed and not tried that, but because it was an item I didn't consider it. Same thing with Scarves.

I Aqua Stepped to break the Sash and then planned on CCing after that, but Knock was obviously better in hindsight. My instinct with Quaq is to always Step because it really doesn't do anything without the Speed boost. I think it may just be a bad Pokemon.
>>57176416
I didn't CC turn 1 because lead Samu is Sashed and I would've taken extra Ceaseless chip for nothing; I feel like that's a pretty obvious move I stand by, although I admit Knock was better than Step.

I don't think Moth killed Lando there, did it? Whereas Earth Power definitely killed the next turn in any case. That combined with Quaq not killing with Step tells me that it's probably my calcs that are wrong and messing me up, I was probably calcing SpDef Lando on autopilot. I lead Moth a lot of the time because it does make big progress early on, but I didn't this time because I knew it was lead Samu.
>>57176464
I totally forgot Samu had Encore. Is it a common set? I usually see 4 attacks. I needed +2 to be faster than Pult, otherwise I would've had to blow Tera to live Darts or risk getting Wisped. I admit I misplayed the Gambit, I didn't realize I was for sure faster until 2 turns too late. I've been screwed clicking Sucker and theirs is faster or wins the speed tie so I fail, and didn't want to risk it.

>>57176549
Why did you assume the Samurott is sashed? As you can tell by it switching in on rocks later on and not taking damage it wasn't even sash, it was boots. Obviously you can't know every set in advance and some Pokemon have enough set/item variety where you can never be sure enough until it's confirmed but I think you really need to get better at identifying likely sets and items. I'm not sure why you thought it must be sash Samurott and even if it had been sashed then taking that extra damage from Ceaseless Edge in exchange for bringing it down to 1HP is completely fine.

You also need to get better at headcalcs, yeah. That Lando was obviously fully physically bulky with Rocky Helmet. Using the calculator in low ladder matches is kind of lame but it doesn't hurt to occasionally do it to confirm instead of going off of inaccurate headcalcs if you don't have enough of a feel for the calcs yet. Speaking of calcs, Iron Moth does kill this Landorus-T: 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Overheat vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 405-477 (106 - 124.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even Fiery Dance would have had a chance to KO at 71%: 252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Moth Fiery Dance vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 249-294 (65.1 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

But obviously you shouldn't have risked that and just clicked Overheat. What can your opponent switch to? Everything your opponent can possibly switch to still takes a huge chunk and you could have responded accordingly.

Ok, the second DD explanation is fine. But the Kingambit plays really should have gone differently. Your opponent is also terrible for using tera Fire for no reason at the end there. Accomplishes absolutely nothing for him and just makes him weaker to Extreme Speed. You should have realized your opponent is clueless and banked on him mindlessly clicking Sucker Punch into your Extreme Speed. Would have likely still won anyway. Not that winning that game would have erased all the questionable plays.

>>57176647
By the way, I exaggerated a bit with Encore. It definitely sees use but it's not super common. You should know it learns it and sometimes uses it but fine. The more I think about it the more I have to take back my comment about the second DD. Not wanting to play games with the Dragapult makes sense since you hadn't scouted its set at that point. Still think one DD into directly attacking would have been more favorable but I get it. However the Kingambit plays still look really poor. I would recommend maybe running Low Kick instead of Iron Head since you have a full speed Kingambit already anway. Especially nice in low ladder where people just love staying in with their Kingambits on your Kingambit and never scout anything. Will make these annoying Kingambit vs Kingambit situations much easier. Don't think you should miss Iron Head that much given that you have Sludge Wave and Sludge Bomb for fairies. Low Kick can also help with Samurott-Hisui.

>>57176671
I assume you already know the site but you can take a look at pikalytics OU stats just to get an idea of what the most common moves/items/spreads are for any commonly used Pokemon. You seem to struggle a bit with figuring out what Pokemon can run which stuff and I would also recommend to take a good look at your opponent's team preview and already have a general ideaof what items they might be running. You obviously won't be 100% correct and there's always a chance someone runs some dumb bullshit nobody could have expected, especially in lower ladder, but stuff like a likely Air Balloon when a team is relatively weak to Ground can be figured out by looking at the overall team. Also don't expect your opponents know your sets. Chances are the average low ladder shitter won't even know you have Choice Specs on Iron Moth which should be first thought someone has when they see an Iron Moth without Booster Energy but that's too much to ask for. Look at the plays the people you lose to make. Do you have an explanation what tera Fire on Kingambit at the end could have possibly accomplished for that guy you lost to?

>>57176647
90% of Samu I've seen have been Sashed. I didn't think taking the extra damage in exchange for 1HP was a good trade, because Quaq gets 2HKO at -1 if he wins the speed tie, and then he has 2 Spike layers up.

The calc is my bad, I need to get more used to recognizing sets in an instant like that. Oh that did 11% so it's full Phys Def Lando, or oh I only did 22% to Gambit so mine must be faster, those thoughts do not come to me naturally. That's a good point that I'll try to keep in mind going forward. I should study up on the most common sets, I know Smogon keeps track of that stuff and reports on it once a month or something.

Overheat destroyed his whole team except Prima, which is why I knew he was going to it and I Sludged turn 8. I'm proud of that move at least.

I think he terad Fire as a flex at the end, just cause he could. I actually don't remember why I didn't Espeed at the end there, I knew it blocked Sucker. It was a Gambit 50/50 after that anyway though, and I shouldn't have been in that position to begin with.
>>57176671
I like Iron Head for Hatt and random Fairy Teras, but you're right the team already has double Poison. I've seen Gambit's drop Kowtow for Low Kick, but dropping Iron Head probably makes more sense.
>>57176694
Yeah, I typed up my reply above before you posted this one, this is what I was referring to. A lot of people don't know about Specs; the amount of Turn 1 Energy Balls I've used to kill Palafin's that think they can Flip Turn is insane. I can't really dog the lower ladder for it that hard though, because I still get messed up by random Scarfed stuff. Enam, Ghold, Lando I know are common and can scout for, but anything less conventional than that can catch me off guard pretty easily.

>>57176740
I'm heading out now and won't be able to reply for a while if you reply again, but I wanted to thank you for taking the time to type all this out for me. I know you said it wasn't a priority and you didn't want to go turn by turn, so thank you for the extra analysis; even getting the chance to talk to someone about calcs and stuff like that is really refreshing. I don't know many people that play comp and /vp/ is usually no good for conversations like this, so this has been a breath of fresh air. I definitely have a few solid things I can go off of now; I'll work on predicting sets and thinking more about calcs and hopefully I can have more to show for myself in the near future

>>57169695
they probably just made that image as a blanket list for usage statistics in tiers that aren't ubers and ubers is just added for convenience

>>57176755
No problem, wouldn't have offered it if I wasn't interested in giving proper replies. To sum it up I would say you should:
>become better at identifiyng likely sets/items and do a better job of scouting them early on
>be more selective in your set up opportunities
>get better at headcalcs and develop more of a feel for likely damage ranges
>become more knowledgeable about moves that pokemon might run even if they don't always use them
>don't assume your opponent doesn't have annoying answers to the sets you brought
>play to your teams strengths and weaknesses (for example not letting up hazards with a team that has specs Iron Moth is more important than getting up your own rocks a lot of times)
>don't make desperate predictions and trades especially early on when you don't need to


Feel free to ask/post anything else. I'll keep checking the thread as long as it's up.

Gen 9 singles is so goddamn, motherfucking, fucking dogshit of a meta.
It's by a landslide the absolute worst OU.
Even gen 8 with Dynamax was more playable than this absolute dogshit flaming turd

>>57174955
Because the autists love Autismpex.
>Thing used thunder
>Pex switched out Lando go

>Thing used Earthquake
>Pex switched out Lando go

>>57176830
I can attest to this holy shit is so fucking bad

>>57176830
national dex has a less skilled ladder but is the better meta

>>57176845
natdex is such a better meta and has much more familiar faces I swear half the mons in gen 9 ou are from the dlc

>>57176830
as bad as gen 9 is it's no worse than the current state of gen 4 ou
trust me there's never been a worse tier

>>57177125
>trust me there's never been a worse tier
You haven't played early BW with DOS and Darkrai

Ban or no ban on Palafin

>>57177360
Any and all arguments for keeping Palafin banned can be solved by just banning tera once and for all.

>>57166049
>Alomomola in OU
I used that shitmon all the time in Gen VI VGC but that was explicitly for its supporting movepool and typing, what tools made it good in singles finally?

>>57177382
Flip Turn

>>57177523
>>57177382
Also less mons get Scald now.

>>57177382
>shitmon
It's a top tier wall bro

>>57177743
At least Alomomola kept it.

>>57177523
On top of getting Flip Turn the previous premier bulky water with Regenerator got nerfed hard by losing both Scald and Knock Off. Pretty sure in National Dex it's ranked higher and still used more commonly than Alo because it kept these moves.

>>57177862
Alomomola has always been able to pass fat wishes, but now it's able to do so way more reliably.

>>57177869
Yeah, obviously Flip Turn is the big change but it also doesn't have as much competition in its slot anymore. Although I think Alo is starting to regress because Waterpon is everywhere and makes it so hard to really Flip Turn.

>>57177872
Okay, I get your point now.

>>57177125
The machamp ban in gen 4 OU was pants on head retarded. They really just banned the champ because it made a C list youtuber who doesn't even play the tier mad.

>>57177899
You know you have to get reqs to vote for a ban and the youtuber was too bad to get reqs so he couldn't even vote on it, right? That means you have to actually play the meta and know what you're doing. Anybody who disagreed with the ban could have gotten reqs and voted "do not ban" like all the experts on /vp/.

>>57177909
There's literally 0 reason to ban machamp. It gets hard countered by ghost types since it's slow as fuck so it needs to run scarf to "work".
And confusion is only a 50% chance to proc, how is machamp unfair but jirachi para+flinch double odds (serene grace) a "staple"?
>Tranny youtuber was such a shitter he couldn't get a req
kek

>>57177928
Ok, people who play and are good enough to get reqs seem to have a different opinion. Why didn't you vote against a ban? If everyone who shared your view had voted it woulfn't have been banned. Hard countered by ghosts is also funny as if it doesn't have coverage specifically for ghosts because Dynamic Punch is such a braindead move to click on most stuff.

>>57177955
I didn't know it was getting banned until after the vote otherwise I would've gotten req and voted against.
>inb4 if you don't play you can't talk about it
Didn't stop trannythy cool and his fanbase from griefing the tier.
>muh coverage
If it's not using a scarf then it gets outsped by everything, it having coverage doesn't matter at that point.

>>57177750
Yeah nah I used it back then because it was a very bulky water with Wide Guard, Heal Pulse and Helping Hand. I was just shocked to see it useful in Singles, I remember gen V/VI Alomomola was a lower tier wall.
>>57177743
Okay that makes some sense, not sure what >>57177523 is but I'm guessing that is good too, I presume a water type or normal type U Turn?

>>57170490
I think it’s pretty simple. The people who actually want Typhlosion to be relevant somewhere will flock to that tier and use it. Usage doesn’t indicate viability; already Typhlosion is historically one of the mons next to Electivire, Hitmonchan, and Ambipom that people have basically meme’d into a higher tier than their actual viability would warrant. Meanwhile Charizard fans aren’t that terribly autistic.

>>57178187
>Meanwhile Charizard fans aren’t that terribly autistic.
Anymore, they used to be way worse about it, back in the dpp days there was a charizard and ambipom tier in the viability rankings because their sheer usage made them OU but they were largely shitmons

>>57170490
>Typhlosion has genuine merit
He is the poster child of being in a tier above were it would be good because of autists, this plagued the badger right until the switch

>>57177986
All I'm getting out of this is that people who were good enough and actually play got reqs to vote for a ban whereas shitters who don't play or aren't good enough to get reqs could not vote against the ban. Tells you everything you need to know.

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>>57177125
current gen 5 says hello
>but machamp ban
I see your machamp and raise you cloyster

>>57178229
Funny how the main faggot who started this hissy fit (trannyty cool) couldn't get req to vote for ban lol

>>57178212
It’s the opposite. Typhlosion naturally falls to a lower tier then rapes it so badly it gets banned THEN autists spam it in the teir above since BL isn’t playable. Then it ends up sucking because it can’t adapt because Game Freak would rather give it weird ass stories that get it canceled, than anything that would provide coverage or utility.
Electrivire never got a chance to destroy a teir or even be decent because it never dropped. And even now in ZU it was good for like a month then completely fell off somehow.

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>>57178255
I don't know where this idea that Jimmy started it when the suspect test was decided on before Jimmy even played gen 4

>>57167961
OBESED

>>57178349
Because these people don't pay attention to anything. They just keep tabs on Youtube drama and think everyhing revolves around said Youtubers.

>>57178251
Cloyster is actually a broken monstrosity after a shell smash though. Machamp was just really annoying to play against.

>>57178409
esl post

>>57178429
>Cloyster is actually a broken monstrosity after a shell smash though.
no it isn't
without a white herb, if has no defenses left, and has no hp recovery, and can't even rely on a focus sash, and can easily lose to ice resists

>>57178349
>the suspect test was decided on before Jimmy even played gen 4
you're just as retardedly clueless as those you're complaining about

>>57178468
Lando can't even OHKO 100% of the time with a STAB EQ off of its 145 base attack.

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. -2 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 211-250 (87.5 - 103.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Even at -2, Cloyster can still live powerful neutral attacks.

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BRING HER BACK

>>57178635
Only if Terastallization gets banned.

>>57178632
just run earth power for the KO on priority targets that are bulky enough to take EQs? you know like lando does in gen 9 right now?

>>57177125
>>57176830
5 > 3 > 6 > 7 > 9 > 1 > 8 > 4 > 2

>>57178656
i can't agree with gen 2 being the worst meta
it's certainly very unappealing but the people who actually play it don't complain about it being shit like gen 4 ou players and such
it's a very autistic tier but i can respect that

>>57178653
Lando only started doing that because his movepool was gutted. He lost all of his moves besides EQ, U-turn, Stealth Rocks, Earth Power, Fly, Swords Dance, and Stone Edge.

That wasn't the point, though. The point was to show that even the strongest non-SE physical attack you are likely to run into isn't even enough to OHKO you after a Shell Smash. It means that if you ever let Cloyster in on something that isn't SE against it or a Special Attacker, it's lights out.

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>>57178665
Gen 2 has the longest average battle length of any tier by a significant amount. Even hyper offense teams in Gen 2 struggle to finish out games in under 40 turns. The tier is centralized around Snorlax, that fat son of a bitch, and the Electric types he keeps in check.

Growl Miltank is an effective strategy because you can PP stall out CurseLax. That should tell you all that you need to know about the absolute state of Gen 2 OU.

>>57178656
Hello 4chan this is the Washington State mental asylum. We have been tracking this escaped man and thankfully he has made himself known by thinking that current gen 5 isn’t a shell of its former self and that 9 isn’t just as bad. He is now back in asylum so please ignore this abhorrent bait post. Thank you.

man i forgot that cloyster got banned to ubers postmortem in gen 5 lmao
funny how it's magically way too strong in that gen but in every gen after it's unviable dogshit

>>57178679
5 has actually gotten better with the bans of Cloyster, gems, and sleep. It's definitely still imbalanced, but it has a lot of viable team styles and isn't as luck based as Gen 4.

4 would be #1 if Jirachi and Latias were banned, though.

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>>57178474
I mean that the decision to do a suspect test was decided on before he ever even commented on it, retard-kun.

>>57178686
Anyone who thinks smogon makes ban decisions objectively needs to be told the story of cloyster
>king’s rock cloyster takes a few scalps in a tournament, one of those scalps happens to be some smogfag, therefore king’s rock and all rng items get banned across all gens because of butthurt
>ice gem cloyster takes another scalp of a smogfag so gems are now banned
>even after that cloyster still takes smogfag scalps so they decide to show their ass for the 3rd time in a row and ban the clam entirely

>>57178686
Permanent Rain gives it a strong 50% damage boost to its Surf (or Hydro Pump if you're feeling lucky) that lets it beast through any "checks" that resist Icicle Spear and Rock Blast.
>+2 0 SpA Life Orb Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magnezone: 320-376 (113.8 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Nothing can beat it once it's set up. The closest thing it had to a check was Keldeo, and Keldeo could only switch in once.

>>57178704
>meta develops
>meta has a glaring hole in it
>sweeper that takes advantage of that hole rises from the depths of UU
>ban it instead of letting the meta develop further
smogon is such a joke.

>>57178709
oh i forgot priority moves don't exist until gen 6
my bad anon

SMOGON TRANNIES BANNED PALAFIN

>>57178709
>life orb cloyster
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Cloyster: 204-242 (84.6 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

>>57178727
>>57178795
>Conkeldurr comes in after Cloyster scores a KO (it's not switching in safely)
>Cloyster switches out into one of the many Conk checks in the tier like Reuniclus

>>57178808
>cloyster can't set up again because it took chip smashing, is now a dead weight mon
wow you really showed me

>bro if you get cloyster in for free and it gets to set up for free and it has sash and white herb and life orb at the same time and rain is up in a meta where ttar is on every team and the other guy doesn't have a bulky water type or any priority users and he's running 6 physical attackers that all somehow don't carry close combat or stone edge in high power physical moves the generation and your field is clear of hazards and...
>then it's hecking unbeatable bro
smogon is such a joke.

>>57178817
Cloyster still has a huge defense stat that lets it set up even if it took 25% stealth rock chip twice. There's a reason it was banned, and it's not because everyone is dumber than you.

>>57178873
yeah it was banned because it was anti-meta and rather than risk having to actually adapt to a new threat instead of pasting the same cookie cutter teams for the tenth year in a row omgontards just banned it lol

do idiots here understand that somehing doesn't have to be unbeatable for people to not want it in the tier? no pokemon is unbeatable. everything has theoretical perfect answers but people don't like its presence in the tier so they got rid of it. it's like whining and moaning that people who play monopoly with some house rules decided to get rid of a rule nobody likes. what do you care, you don't even play monopoly

>>57178898
>I DON'T WANT IT IN THE TIER BECAUSE... BECAUSE I JUST DON'T, OKAY? BAN IT BAN IT BAN IT WAHHHHH I DON'T LIKE HAVING TO PLAY AROUND SETUP SWEEPERS I JUST WANT TO CLICK CHOICE BAND OUTRAGE WITH DRAGONITE OVER AND OVER
smogon is such a joke.

>>57178842
>Bro you just have to NEVER use any physical attacker that doesn't have Close Combat or Stone Edge
>Bro you just have to switch in a bulky Water type! (Ignoring that they all get shredded)
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Jellicent: 330-390 (81.8 - 96.7%) -- approx. 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 330-395 (82.2 - 98.5%) -- approx. 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tentacruel: 300-355 (82.4 - 97.5%) -- approx. 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

>>57178898
>”you’re banned from buying boardwalk and park place”
>”that’s a terrible rule”
>”what do you care, you don’t even play monopoly”

>>57178898
holy fucking cope

>>57178891
lmao

>>57178903
thanks for the input, guy who definitely plays a lot. have you ever wondered why you spend so much mental energy getting flustered up to the point where you write enraged allcaps posts about something that will literally never affect you or anybody else who doesn't play these metas?

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>>57178911
>>57178913
When Smash players do it, it's fine.

When Smogon players do it, they're literally killing the heckin Pokemonorinos...

>>57178932
>implying literally anyone on the planet DOESN'T make fun of smashfags
kekaroo

>>57178938
The only attack people have against Smash players is that they're stinky.

>>57178922
i think it's so funny how people will read a post with caps lock and think "this guy is frothing mad" instead of "this guy pressed shift with his finger"
literally no thoughts in that head eh

>>57178911
literally yeah. if the people who actually play monopoly want to ban a street let them ban that street. you don't play monopoly so why should your vision of how monopoly should be played have priority? sheer narcissism.

>umm i'm just making fun, i don't actually care
keeping track of what happens in a meta and then crying 24/7 on an image board about it isn't making fun. it's just being whiny and obsessed. same way kiwifarm autists think they're any better than the lolcows they're obsessed with.

>>57178943
smash players' collective comp autism was made fun of to the point that "no items, fox only, final destination" became part of the normalfag lexicon.
retard.

>>57178948
you literally have to be mad as fuck to keep making these posts. make another post crying about omgon ban and show everyone how not mad you are that they banned something.

>>57178898
at the end of the day it really just does come down to "i'm salty i lost to this and don't want to adapt my strategy so even though it's not really broken i want it gone."
and if you can't see why people make fun of that, you're probably autistic enough that you should be put down.

>>57178959
>you literally have to be mad as fuck to keep making these posts
>he says, frothing at the mouth as he projects his own rage onto others
i'm poking you with a stick and you think i'm the mad one here kek

>>57178956
No it didn't. It was a passing fad meme in the late 2000s made to mock Melee players who play the game competitively. Turns out that comp players won in the end because Sakurai and Bamco made Smash 4 and Ultimate to cater to them.

>>57178976
>No it didn't, [HEADCANON]
retard. compfags hate the later games too which is why they still get made fun of to this day.

>>57178966
lol at pretending /vp/'s collectice meltdown over any smogon ban is "poking something with a stick". this place literally cries and cries about anything that ever happens on smogon up the point where there are weekly, often even daily threads whining about it. zero self-awareness if you think otherwise. by the way, just as a reminder. this thread was about usage stats in december and then people started crying about machamp and cloyster and probably some other shit. very dedicated poke-sticking and not just repetititve seething. you literally cannot deny that this is the truth. all /vp/ does is moan and cry and whine about omgon in basically every comp thread. gonna laugh at the incoming replies pretending this isn't the case.

>>57178990
>all /vp/ does is moan and cry and whine
just like omgonfags did with cloyster lmao

>>57178984
What a joke you are. Smash Ultimate is still very popular competitively, even though it's on its 7th year now. Even though it suffered through the Covid era with no in person events. In fact, the largest Ultimate tournament in 2024 had 50% more entrants than the largest Melee tournament in 2024.

>>57179000
No, SMOGGODS banned Cloyster. You won't do shit.

>>57179000
>people who play a meta complain about something and get rid of it to the dismay of people who don't play
you're almost there

>>57179007
>only 1.5x as popular as a broken ass game from 20 years ago
what a self-own

>gen 5 ou is still, to this day, considered one of the worst metagames in smogon history
>retards will still defend the council's tiering decisions for it despite this sorry state
even people playing retarded meme formats like natdex have more backbone than you sorry lot and can say "well this is just fucking unfun we need to shake things up"
grow a damn spine

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>>57179022
Melee's popularity has been increasing. Majors were averaging 150 players in the early 2010s. In the late 2010s it war 450. By 2023 it was over 600.

Smash Ultimate's popularity has declined due to Steve, Sonic, and G&W, especially in the post-Chinese Corona Virus era, being everywhere and no one wanting to play against or see them. In 2019 the average SSBU Major had over 1,100 players in attendance, but it's still over 800 in 2024.

Smash Ultimate still outsold every Pokemon game on the Switch, selling almost 10 million more than Sword and Shield.

>>57179033
The tiering decisions are to try and make the tier better. Gen 5 players voted on actually trying to fix the tier or just leaving it as is as a time capsule. In fact, Gen 5 was the 1st old gen OU tier to do so unless you count Gen 1 retroactively unlocking the tiers and creating UU/NU/PU for Gen 1. Gen 3, 4, and 6 followed suit after Gen 5 started banning things.

>>57179033
But the whole point is to improve the gen. If it sucks, why should you just let it stay like that? Whether or not the attempts to improve really improved is debatable but at least something is being done.

>>57179056
>The tiering decisions are to try and make the tier better
and thanks to the complete incompetence of the council and everyone else involved, it's only gotten worse
i know they're too pussy to actually make the suggestion that banning weather would be objectively good and fix the rock paper scissors lose at team preview meta, but still the things they've actually done have been retarded

>>57179048
Ultimate shouldn't be played competitively not because it's a Smash game but because it sucks ass. Zero interesting movement options, degenerate and gimmicky movesets, unplayable online, shitty native input lag and no momentum transfer from running and jumping. The only thing it has going for is the most content.

>>57178962
kek at this pathetic cope, Nobody here actually makes fun of smogon. It's 99% nonsensical kvetching and autistic seething they banned something. Making fun of something actually involves being detached enough to not take it too seriously and also involves some kind of humor that isn't just purely autism-fueled spite. There's no humor involved in a post like this >>57178785 or this >>57178903. It's just butthurt. If you can't tell the difference, you're probably autistic enough that you should be put down.

>>57165918
>Torterra PU despite Shell Smash
What went so wrong?

>>57179472
Shower

>>57180131
Projection from the nu-smash crowd. The stinky day meme literally comes from a Smash 4 tournament.

>>57180111
>Snorunt used Powder Snow!

>>57179033
If you ran a poll now people would say Gen 5 OU is better and funner than Gen 4 OU. And that's true.

>>57178718
you said it

>>57178697
show me in the thesaurus where comment is a synonym of play

>>57178678
Miltank is a hard stall mon. It isn't representative of the metagame, just the actual stall part of it.

The tier isn't centralized around Zapdos and Raikou.

Gen 1 OU matches go about as long as Gen 2 OU matches.

>>57180878
Isn't Gen 1 also Oops All PP Stall?

>>57178665
People who say Gen 2 OU is the worst OU do so out of spite against the many people who attempt to shut down their criticisms.

There is a very very poor representation of Gen 2 OU being presented to the playerbase at large that has yet to be substantially corrected, and it makes it super easy to write the tier off.

>>57178632
180 base defense
None super effective move
4x ice weakness so it wouldn't even hit it in the first place

was this honestly, truly, the best counter you could come up with?

>>57180890
no

Gen 1 OU is about incapacitation and exploiting it with powerful attacks as soon as possible

it's never about deliberately prolonging a match