>fanfic
Why should I care?

>>57175765
>pokemon's unbalanced farcical pvp
why should i care?

>>57175765
>candyland zionist fanfic now being ruined by groomed troon zoomers
hahahaha

>having slowbro on everyteam to counter machamp is unreasonable despite it having a low win rate
>having heatran on every team for Jirachi iron head is healthy
>But we need Jirachi for latias

Can someone give me the QRD on this? All I know was that Dynamic Punch was one of the issues.

Wow. These fucking scrubs really did it
Jirachi and Latias get off scot fucking free... AGAIN
Imagine being this bad at Pokemon

>>57175836
It was literally just because of dynamic punch

>>57175777
Gen 4 OU was ruined long ago

this is just further mutilation akin to what happened to Gen 5 OU

>>57175777
poetic, I guess
but honestly I couldn't give a rats ass about it all. showdown or not, they didn't bully out my main 6 fuckers, so we're good.

>>57175765
"Unfortunate" doesn't begin to describe my series, this game rewards blind luck and nothing else, I am beyond convinced at this point. After getting completely tooled by scheduling with my opponent changing times on me last minute and refusing to provide confirmation prior to the day of the match as to play times, losing this way somehow felt even worse than I had thought possible. My preparation was superior, my play was superior, and I lost, so I don't see a reason to continue engaging in an activity where what is within my control is overwhelmingly outweighed by what is not.

I am done with competitive Pokemon, and you won't get a fond farewell. This community is infected to its roots with a degenerative disease that grows stronger over time but stops short of killing its host. Tournaments used to have a competitive spirit at their heart, this has been transplanted and replaced with an artificial organ that feeds on vitriol and mockery from insecure little boys that heckle by the sidelines and tear each other to shreds over scraps of attention. The environment we fostered has trapped us all like this in a vicious cycle, and escaping it requires acceptance of the harshest reality we all scramble to explain away, that none of the countless straining efforts we put ourselves through here will ever amount to one single shining glimmer of significance. I would make this the end, but World Cup is still ongoing, and I would never leave so many great friends out to dry, so I'll suffer through a few more games for them.

One last thing before I leave you all to react with disdain, ridicule, and self-righteous fervor, before you do everything in your power to minimize my words and thoughts, box them up and shove them to some cobwebbed corner of your memory, and hope they disappear forever as a stain on your finite time ground to dust. From this moment on, nothing you say matters to me.

>>57175765
>Machamp is Uber in DPP
>Jirachi isn't
LOL LMFAO

>>57175771
>>57175769
Hey Verlisify

On the bright side, at least this makes Machamp better than all OU Pokemon.

Machamp chads rise up

>>57175993
next to Salamence and Garchomp
sink in

>>57175836
People were sick of the newly rng-heavy nature of DPP after people discovered that Clefable was fucking annoying and good. They wanted to ban Dynamicpunch and Iron Head, but the guys upstairs spouted some nonsense about "precedents" and so they have to ban Machamp as a whole. This will not fix the meta, since the real problem is Iron Head Rachi and Magic Guard Clef.

how are they still adjusting the rules for a game that came out in 20 years ago

>>57175836
>complex bans are too hard for your stupid brains to understand
>complex bans are a slippery slope that will end with us unbanning mewtwo but only giving it garbage moves
>we aren’t allowed to remove the confusion from dynamic punch even though it’s our program and our website
>therefore we literally have no choice but to ban a mon that wasn’t even the problem

>>57176142
People are still playing it? Discovering new degenerate strats doesn't only happen in new games.

>>57176159
well I already went as far as that game as I could go, back in 08 at the first official videogame challenge (known as showdown during that time) I placed top 8 with my machamp running fireblast and mega punch
ironically it was a clefable that knocked me out of the tournament. Pretty funny how after all these years the sweaty tryhards are coming up with strats I used as a kid

>>57175984
what a fucking villain speech holy shit

>>57175984
Zamn nigga, is this what competitive Pokemon does to people?
I knew shit was a meme after winning so many games over people with shit like triple full para, I just be apologizing like it was my fault we both subjected ourselves to this (kinda funny tho ngl).

>>57176159
This. New strategies can be found later on, so some evaluations are necessary. Modern Smogon is aids and I wouldn't want to re evaluate shit.

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i wonder how many people will continue to ladder gen4ou now that the vote is over

>>57175984
All this because he got flinched by Waterfall

>>57176358
Fucking none, because now you can't even force wins against Jirachi and one of the Latis through para-confusion
Unbanning said Lati, and banning Dugtrio, was the start of the endtimes, and the only way to salvage DPPOU is to ban Jirachi and/or said Lati, preferably both.

>>57176372
rachi is one of the few true checks latias checks doe

>>57176389
IT IS A BLIGHT UPON THE TIER
The only reason people still allow it is because they have grown used to it, worn down by time and a "what can ya do" attitude towards it, necessitating HEATRAN as a potential check, and yet it can still break through with paraflinch hax. Besides, if you NEED Jirachi as a check, doesn't that mean Latias constrains teambuilding, something Smogon really tries to avoid?

>>57176404
at least machamp had a low win rate I see Latias or rachi on almost every team thats not even mentioning that rachi is also a great calm minder

>>57176420
Yeah, great at stacking up defense buffs so even if it is hit, it wont easily go down

Jirachi in DPP OU is unquestionably everything wrong with Pokemon and yet despite having a long history of aping the fuck out over any form of "hax", smogon pedophiles are defending Jirachi's existence.
I've had matches were my maximum physical bulk investment died to Jirachi after a bit of rock and spikes chip because it got flinched 34 times in a roll, tell me this is healthy and fair in any way?

>>57176455
maximum physical bulk Heatran*

>>57176455
It's the only way to deal with Clef.

>>57175765
Not a fucking furry or furry sympathiser so don't lump me in with that guy, but I feel that Smogon's structure has shown itself to be unable to cope with the modern incarnation of ladder mentality. All of the meta games that used to feel "balanced and fun" have been shown to be ludicrously unfun when people appraoch them with a cold "win at all costs" mentality. This has led into a ban cascade that feels like it started with the BP Chain bans several years ago, BP Chains were a known thing for years but not a "popular" strategy until people realised how reliable they were to climb with and then people spammed them everywhere, ruining formats.
Basically the broad population of the community went from trying to win with style to doing whatever maximises their chance of +ranking, and since Smogon hasn't allowed a metagame to settle around an over centralised strategy since GSC they are now in a perpetual state of putting out spot fires to "preserve the metagame."
I forget which comp player said it, but they really should freeze a metagame at gen change, have a version that continues to get spot bans as if it was the current gen and have another version that is just a moment trapped in time.

>>57176477
If its the only way, shouldn't clef be banned because it necessitates that you bring jirachi?

>>57176481
>they really should freeze a metagame at gen change, have a version that continues to get spot bans as if it was the current gen and have another version that is just a moment trapped in time.
Issue is that many gens lack a player base to do that as seen with the GSC. Gen 3 would probably only be able to actually pull it off out of the pre 3d era.

>>57176497
So the only solution is to make a game wholly unrecognisable to itself, because community opinions shift years or even decades after the fact?
We are now at the point where the community sees it acceptable to ban status conditions in some gens. If Sleep can be banned from SV OU for being too powerful, why not Gen I OU? Why not BW OU? Already I've seen people talk about Para bans in Gen III, IV, V. At what point have you chopped up the game so much that it is no longer remotely similar to the game you started with? Note that plenty of legacy stuff that is completely unrealistic to playing the game in the current day is kept around to "maintain the historical metagame" (the first one that comes to mind is PCNY moves in Gen II) but constant tinkering with the game will never cease.

As per usual, smogon tards are shitters who can't deal with anything. Well, not my problem!

>>57176490
Honestly you can beat clef using breloom also because it doesn't really care about knock + only scared of ice beam. I will say that clef should be suspected but 2 problems arise with that 1. Smogon notoriously hates banning bulky mons, mega sableye in XY got banned way too late, and USUM quagsire got banned in UU like 1 or 2 years ago. 2. It cucks DPP UU of a unique set up sweeper that isn't afraid of toxic.

Also ban jirachi FFS

>DPP OU
are the old generation meta ladders still that active for them to be making a ban like this

>>57176481
>people appraoch them with a cold "win at all costs" mentality
Someone watches False Swipe Gaming

How to fix DPP OU:
>complex ban Iron Head and Serene Grace on the same mon
>complex ban Dynamic Punch and No Guard on the same mon, bring Machamp back to OU
>complex ban Snow Cloak/Sand Veil and Snow Warning/Sand Stream on the same team, bring Froslass back to OU
Any other ideas? The smogoons are allergic to complex bans so this will never happen but one can dream

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As the verifiable inventor of the no guard mega punch machamp I say leave it alone

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Jirachi and Latias are just Gen 4's equivalent to Gen 2 Snorlax. They're mandatory to keep the tier stable, even though they're absolute assfuck cancer that no one likes, because if you booted them, the second-most cancerous mon would immediately take their place, creating a chain reaction of "well now THIS faggot is cancerous, ban it too, but oh wait, now THIS OTHER faggot is cancerous, so ban it too, but oh wait..." until you're left with a stale, neutered and boring meta with nothing interesting about it.

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>>57175996
Hey Finchinator

>>57177103
Don't you know? Trannies are okay when a fanfic meta is ran by them.

>>57177048
I don't know what you mean. I play tabletop wargames, WAACfaggotry is a thing there, is the phrase associated with someone in Pokemon?

>>57176477
My ass it is, Clefable is very retarded but using it as an excuse as to why cancer on legs shouldn't be banned is dumb. Nothing about Jirachi is tolerable in the slightest, it's too good at fucking everything already as is, but the flinching and hax bullshit drive it off the edge, the biggest threat it checks in Latias should have never been unbanned, it's equally as degrading and horrible for the meta, in fact one of the best checks for Clefable was Machamp, now he's gone.
>>57177095
No, no they are not, there are plenty of strong setup sweepers, bulky Pokemon and generalists with defined niches in OU, the tier was never in a great state but ever since a certain (((group))) took over things went to shit, several key Pokemon got banned for stupid reasons, Latias got unbanned for some stupid fucking reason, Dug got banned, which is a mixed bag on itself and after all this time, after years of complaints, they never touched Jirachi, it takes no skill to fit in teams, it does everything, it's too good in every single possible way and flinch hax mixed with paralysis make it downright impossible to beat. The gen 4 meta wouldn't be perfect with it and Latias gone, but it would be stable enough to the point of DPP OU at least being playable and not seeing the same few Pokemon on every single mid to high ladder team. There's a reason ADV is so popular and gen 4's ladder was practically dead for a long time, notice how gens 3 and 5 are exemplary popular but 4 barely saw any discussion until recently?

>>57177394
>Latias should have never been unbanned
Did all this start because someone was salty that Latias wasn’t useful in Ubers because Latios exists?

>>57175765
So
Let me put it simply
Smogon got riled up and banned literal no-win shitter because some faggy Poketuber got obliterated by RNG and felt privileged to make entire video crying over it?
Wow, woah - Smogon is not only meme format but also bunch of cuckholds letting any faggot with youtuber channel dictate how they should play. It's a comedy.

>>57177394
councils make or break a tier, and if you're unlucky enough you get abominations like gen4 ou and gen8 ou. Gen9 is also quite bad but this feels like it's really hard to balance at least

>>57177545
While this is true, there were genuine problems with Machamp.
I don’t think it was bad enough to ban it as Machamp is slow and has only decent bulk, which really limits its ability to abuse Dynamic Punch to the degree that Jirachi abuses Iron Head flinching.
They really just should have banned Dynamic Punch with No Guard, that’s literally the only thing wrong with Machamp.
Either way banning Machamp before Jirachi is a fucking joke

>>57175765
This just seems like they're bored and want to start controversy, playerbase of dpp OU goes from 20 people down to 8 people now?

>>57175836
A C list youtuber who never played Gen 4 OU before (Jimothy cool) had a hissy fit because he lost to dynamic punch Machamp.

>>57175836
clefable and knock off in gen 6 made people realize that magic guard and knock off were 2 of the most broken things in the game and now theyre omnipresent in every single tier possible but they will never be touched as they do not add "rng" to the game. "rng" is the boogeyman now so faggots who can only play one team in every generation fight to the bitter end to keep their aids unfun playstyle viable despite the fact that it relies on thunder wave paras in half of the generations it is in

>>57177605
There are no issues with machamp. Ghost pokémon wall it completely and ghost types are also used as spinblockers so you should have a counter already.
There was literally 0 reason for the machamp ban other than Trannythy cool throwing a hissy fit.

>>57175984
based lavos he was right

>>57177036
Not really.
Its mostly a mix of a small number of nostalgic geezers and the truly autistic kids that want to win everywhere.
The problem is that those extremely autistic kids are obsessive posters and try and hijack everything to fit their ELO farming fixation.
So they colonize older generations that have limited player bases and then try to reshape them so they function in their specific intended way.

>>57175984
>greatest GSC player of all time
>would've pulled off a back to back of smogon's biggest old gens tournament if it weren't for the gyarados incident
>actually kept his word, didn't come crawling back like an addict
>his team won that world cup
my fuarking HERO

>>57175984
>Villain gets proven right in the new series
Holy kino

I told you niggers that dropping a draco spammer with bulk was a bad idea.

Machamp did nothing wrong

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>start playing to get machamp banned
>end up crying over jirachi
kekaroo

>>57177983
>the gyarados incident
lol what the fuck is the deep lore here?

>>57178003
>people told him rachi was way worse
>he ignored them snd even simped for rachi on his machamp hate video
>gets buckbroken by rachi
kek

Can someone explain to me why Latias was unbanned. I heard it had something to do with wanting an Infernape counter but what was wrong with Cresselia?

>>57178015
Got flinched by Gyara's waterfall and lost

>>57178015
Some poor sap got RNG fucked by like 4 or 5 Waterfall flinches in a row during a tournament game that was well in hand until that point- Gyara literally OCV'd his whole team
Dude dropped the greatest salty speech of all time and left Smogon, never to be seen again

>>57178024
Supposedly it was because stall was TOO good.

Huh, maybe you shouldn't have banned Salamence at the very end of gen 4.

>>57176477
Bullshit. Clefairy is weak to Close Combat in gen 4.

>>57178035
Close combat is also not a relevant coverage move. It's generally only found as a STAB.

>>57178035
Machamp generally doesn't care about the speed reduction from paralysis, and is a fighting type that isn't made of glass, making it highly prized as a way to wall break fat pink shitters and their friends

>>57175984
>used to have a competitive spirit at their heart, this has been transplanted and replaced with an artificial organ that feeds on vitriol and mockery from insecure little boys that heckle by the sidelines and tear each other to shreds over scraps of attention.
This is what zoomers and SEA have done to the internet as a whole. It didn't used to be like this.

>>57178121
This. Zoomzooms can't fathom a non-toxic community

>>57175984
i feel like every time this pasta gets posted half the replies are retarded newfags that don't know

>>57178140
Every one of the replies seems to know though.

>>57176372
if you reban Latias and unban Arena Trap you already solve a significant amount of issues the tier has, including to a larger extent Jirachi.

>>57176404
>doesn't that mean Latias constrains teambuilding
yep, but that never matters to smoggies when it's something they want to use

>>57176624
this

>>57177072
seems fine

>>57177095
Latias doesn't create stability, it creates constraints
And Jirachi doesn't fix the meta, it *is* the meta

>>57178509
the fanfic meta lol

>>57177394
>and 5
no, 7
gen 5 ou is around the same popularity as gen 4 ou and others, while gen 7 ou is only half as popular as gen 3 ou

>>57177983
>greatest GSC player of all time
is he though

>>57178024
cresselia doesn't resist fire now does
and it's not strong enough to be used by any team
to this day virtually no one uses it

nu-gen players wanted diet latios ultimately

>>57178532
>this legendary isn't OP enough, we NEED to unban this other legendary
Nugenners were a mistake

Was Gen 4 unironically at its most balanced right after Garchomp's initial ban? The rest of the changes since then only cause problems.

>>57175765
I just realized 5 minutes ago, the suspect should have been for Dynamic Punch. Machamp could still just run Cross Chop. If anyone wants to bitch that it's running Stone Edge and Cross Chop, and thus has two moves with a higher chance to crit, they can fuck off. Dynamic Punch is the same shit on any other mon with an additional coin flip

>>57179043
Yup, but if they ban Dynamic Punch, it has to be the move in its entirety instead of SOLELY in the context of being on a Machamp set, because that "sets precedent" that they now need to evaluate every single possible set a Pokemon could use (literally countless variables), or else it would be "unfair" that Arceus is in Ubers when it can fit in the lowest tier just fine, it just needs to have zero IVs, zero EVs, hold a Black Sludge and have its moves be Perish Song, Gravity, Natural Gift and Recycle.

>>57179084
Yeah, which I'm saying I think is totally fine. Nothing else even uses it, so why not just ban it the way we did Baton Pass or Swagger in the pass? No complex clauses, just an acknowledgement that there's no healthy context for this move and the mon still could he useful without it. And if Machamp sucks using Cross Chop? Let it fall in the tiers like it would have long ago anyway

People are still banning shit in fake metas from five generations ago?

>>57179139
That's the other "gotcha" about it. If they banned Dynamic Punch as a whole, it would've ALSO "set precedent" by forcing them to re-evaluate other RNG-inducing conditions, which would naturally lead into the big eyebrow raiser of moves that flinch.

>>57178902
maybe but nobody here was playing then

>>57175984
i love that after so many years he got proven right. DPP OU is a complete and utter RNG paraflinch fuckfest and no one enjoys it.
the man was ahead of his time.

>>57179153
>we’d rather keep all the things that make our game unplayable slop rather than taking advantage of the fact that it’s our website and our software to fix the problem
This is the most autism I’ve seen from anyone in this cesspool of a community

>>57179153
That's a fair point and also speaks to how fundamental the issues are in this tier. If the problem with Machamp is DynamicPunch, then implicitly the exact same precedent you're talking about is set. I really love the mechanics of Gen 4 outside of Serene Grace. It's sad to see how much better the tiers without Jirachi and Togekiss are and it's been so long. I don't even think the Gyarados sweeps BKC hates happen that often without Jirachi to press Body Spam and Iron Head to facilitate it

>>57175765
Ok

>>57175765
Machamp getting banned before Jirachi or Latias(why was this even unbanned?) is insane.

Just do a complex ban already, nobody is forcing you to re-evaluate every fucking thing in the game because this particular thing is shit, just complex ban as problems arise. All arguments of "Okay well I guess now you HAVE to allow Mewtwo but only if you use moves with 50 BP or less" is strawman bullshit no-one is reasonably asking for.

>>57180498
Complex bans makes Smogon's head hurt. They like things very tidy and simple.

Nobody plays gen 4 OU anyways, who the fuck cares? Only retro metagame that matters is ADV

>>57180576
i was gonna argue that RBY matters too but i dont want fags and their incoming paralysis clause fucking shit up so yeah RBY does not matter please stay the fuck away

>>57180576
>>57180600
>Gen 1 OU
teaches you that Pokemon is fundamentally about RNG and "abusing" whatever broken or exclusive tactic your mons of choice have access to to the fullest extent possible, shamelessly

>Gen 2 OU
teaches you the absolute importance of structure and honing in on a gameplan backed by several contingency plans, making real sacrifices in the builder for the sake of some hoped for gain; and, clawing for every inch of real estate you can acquire, and being patient while you do so

>Gen 3 OU
teaches you the absolutely brutal nature of success at competitive Pokemon, the unforgiving crushing weight of the meta and the struggle to rise above and against it, all while almost vainly trying not merely to maintain consistency in victory, but also to stay ahead or at the very least abreast of the everblowing winds of change

>Gen 4 OU
teaches you how ill-advised tiering action can ruin an entire metagame founded upon an otherwise admirable generation, and doom it to abject ignominy and eventual obscurity

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>>57175765
Sorry, I haven't played competitive Pokemon in a long time and for a second I thought that No Guard Machamp was causing a lot of issues until I remembered that Hidden Abilities weren't a thing until Gen 5. Why is Machamp getting banned from Gen 4 then? That's so random, I had never heard about him being competitive, let alone banworthy, until now.

>>57180706
No Guard isn't his HA, it's his second. The HA is steadfast

>>57180728
I could swear No Guard was always his HA. Oh well, it has been a very long time, I didn't remember.

>>57180737
Bruno's Machamp has no guard in HGSS is how I have PTSD from getting rockslid while flying

>>57180673
>teaches you that Pokemon is fundamentally about RNG and "abusing" whatever broken or exclusive tactic your mons of choice have access to to the fullest extent possible, shamelessly
yeah that really does sum it up very nicely. especially the shameless part, when you eat good in gen 1 you do not go hungry.

>>57180421
Both of those things check Machamp.

Machamp was the most wanted suspect according to survey of (((qualified players)))

Jirachi could logically be targeted next, if enough people have warmed to the idea of finally banning it.

honestly I believe other steel types like Scizor could rise to fill Jirachi's absence easily enough.

In all fairness, a LOT of contact cancer was added in gen 5, which serve as additional counterplay to Iron head (and u turn) that was not present in gen 4. (rocky helmet, rough skin, iron barbs, etc.)

as for Latias, I think it's a bit overrated. Banning it again would be coming full circle in a hilarious way.
But it's stopped by Ttar and clefable and blissey, and to an extent steel types.
On paper it's a 600 BST dragon type. Fantastic stat distribution, speed tier, ability. These traits make an excellent pokemon. But in the greater context of gen 4, I don't think almost anyone it's broken. It's just good.

>>57182153
Latias with specs can easily destroy Tyranitar on the switch with Surf, barely if any chip damage needed, it's way too good into almost everything else, just click Draco Meteor and win, even Steel types buckle under that, especially considering many like Metagross can only rely on chip heal from leftovers, fundamentally speaking it is an overwhelming Pokemon that constrains team building a lot, not to mention the main excuse every single faggot keeps using as to why Jirachi shouldn't be banned is that "it checks Latias and that if it was banned Latias would be broken", Blissey is not infallible, it can easily be handled by the many Fighting types in the tier and it can be gimped hard by stuff like tricking a choice scarf or a band into it.