PLZA kind of has HMs, and it's mildly annoying.
it's the best possible way to handle it that you just need to have a move of a certain type to do a thing
>>58664083>it's the best possible way to handle it No it isn’t.
>>58664056you can easily change moves
>>58664105yeah... but it's mildly annoying
>>58664056Better than the old way
>>58664123still mildly annoying
>>58664123It’s not better than literally every game since SM.
>>58664130Oh well>>58664147It is
>>58664150It isn’t
>>58664157It is.
>>58664161It isn’t.
>>58664163It is and you can’t change it. Deal with it.
>>58664165It isn’t and you can’t change it. Deal with it.
please stop fighting
>>58664099is so
>>58664266No it isn’t.
No. It dont
>>58664083...or you could just not have any dumb fucking rocks, turds, icicles and other eyesores shitting up the map.
>>58664274>>58664298yes it is, get real
Underage board theory
>>58664480no it isn't, stop being delusional
>>58664487is so, the HM mechanics are literally non mandatory and only present as optional side quests.
>>58664056Despite the frog posting I agree, being forced to swap a move to bubblebeam because there’s some random pollution I didn’t clear pisses me off
>>58664490trash opinion, no it isn't
Yes it is thoughbeit
don't make me repeat myselfNOITISN'T
>>58664555yes, it is
>>58664556No, it isn't
>>58664557Yes it is
>>58664942No it isn't
>>58664056I'm fine with that, but having to use moves to collect mega shards is what annoys me the most, in pla you just throw you mon and they automatically collects the materials
>>58664056The pokemon fanbase's innate hatred of HMs for any reason other than them being annoying to delete and some of them having low stats always proves to me that we deserve our fate with the current games.Any inconvenience or anything that requires any sort of thought besides: "what is the best most optimal pre-planned smogon team I can use to destroy the singleplayer with" is considered annoying.I'm sure the same can extend to everything. Having to train pokemon is annoying, forced XP share.Having to go to the pokemon center to change your team around is annoying, now you have a team of hundreds of pokemon wherever you go removing any stakesI'm sure if they made a game that was actually difficult people would find that annoying too. Honestly not just giving every battle an auto-win option in case people find the battle too annoying probably isn't too far off.Really, having to go around a wall to get to the story destination is kind of annoying too, GF needs to add a noclip ability as soon as possible their games are unplayable otherwise.
why are under 18s allowed on 4chan? newfags need binky because geodude has to unlearn rock polish? the horror of playing the game how it was originally intended... better shit up /vp/
>>58665020>HMs>requiring thoughtI’m sorry for your retardation
>>58664986it ain't don't matter which move doe
>>58664483Theory?
>>58664969It is
>>58664056This is better than carrying a bidoof hm slave everywhere Fuck off OP
>>58666516>>58666510No it isn't
>>58665020I like HMs as a concept, but there being three to four water HMs in every game is fucking retarded. Also jack shit learns cut in the early gens.
The only bad thing about HMs in gens 1-5 is that game freak kinda sucked at designing puzzles for them
>>58666523Yes it is
fuck you
>>58664110And there's more than one move that can handle things.
>>58666537Is not
>>58667071Is so
is not
Is so.
Shut up!
>>58667257Is not.
Good thread boys, keep it up>>58664056It's not even that bad and it helps with immersion, quit being a bitch
>>58666666
>pile of sludge/muk slop >can destroy it with confusion>but not other psychic moves like beam or shock???
>>58667354Is so.
>>58664056>anon when he is mildly inconvenienced in-game>"THIS IS HM SLAYERY"
I would do anything to marry Karen Gillan
>>58667582Is not.
>>58667605Is so.
>>58664550yes it is. use your brain for once and stop being retarded.
>>58664056You can use any fighting, ground or steel type move to break rocks btw
>>58668043ell naw
>>58668029>>58668019No, it isn't, stop being blinded by your own ego.
>>58664056
>>58668157Yes, it is.
>>58664056Zoomers have done irreparable damage to Pokémon’s overworld design. This is a game where you can change your moveset on the fly and you don’t even need specific moves and they still complain that this is too much of a chore for them.
>>58668175SNEED
>>58668177Nope
>>58668179nah, it's just mildly annoying, that's it
>>58668224Which is what I am saying, anything beyond the world being a walk in the park is a mildly annoying chore to the zoomer.
>>58668043I didn't realize this for a bit until after the 3rd time putting rock smash on my designated fighter.
>>58668043or dragon
>>58668226hmm I think your wrong thoughie
>>58668043EQ doesn’t work
>>58668392Yes it does.
>>58668192Yes, it does.
>>58668397>>58668417No, it doesn't.
>>58668043>>58668392mildly annoying
It IS! It IS! IT IS IT IS IT IS IT IS!!!
this thread is actually the most insightful discussion on /vp/ in months
>>58668565no it isn't
>>58668464Nah, it really is not.
>>58668571yes, it is
>>58665020>reddit opinionThe issue is that navigating the field is a separate concern to battling. Having moves compete for slots on this basis is poor game design.The early games didn't implement HMs the way they did as a design decision, it was a technical limitation.Can't wait to see what retarded shit you come back with.
>Frognigger thread is awfulAs expected>>58668175SNEED
>>58664056Neither
>see rock>take machop out of PC>use move on rock>put machop back into PC>this is a challenging and well thought out mechanic according to DStards
>>58668720>Having moves compete for slots on this basis is poor game design.I disagree. Plenty of games have inventories where you have to make considerations like that. Resident Evil is one that comes to mind where you have to balance your inventory between weapon+ammo, and items required for traversing the map. The problem is that over time a lot of people for whatever reason has come to the conclusion that a Pokémon's moveset should only be useful in battle, which is how we have ended up in the current era where Pokémon are nothing but battle machines and any other things you can use them for are usually entirely isolated systems. Not going to say it was perfect, things like HM slaves was never the intention but simply the most optimized way to deal with them, and a large part of the arising aversion to incorporating them into your main mons' movesets.
>>58668876Yet it was somehow too hard for some people that they are traumatized by HMs to this day. Sure more complex puzzles would be great but that's not what zoomers ask for, they see a rock in their way and that's too much for them to deal with so they pick up their phone instead.
>>58669119no, it isn't
>>58669119>Yet it was somehow too hardYou have it backwards. It’s too easy. To the point where the mechanic is literally pointless and adds nothing to the game except doing a meaningless 20 second chore.
>>58664056Only at the very beginning where you have to use a b*nnelby.
>>58669543If the problem was that is was too easy then you would want it to be harder, right? Not remove it and make the game even easier. Removing HMs was always a bad idea, they should have made them more involved instead.
>>58669789>Not remove it and make the game even easier.Except it doesn’t make the game easier. It just removes a pointless chore.
>>58665020>Really, having to go around a wall to get to the story destination is kind of annoying too, GF needs to add a noclip ability as soon as possible their games are unplayable otherwise.Well, they’ve already gone as far as cutting down from a region to a single city. Can’t be too far off.
>>58669795Not needing to have a pokémon on your team with the correct move or not having to go to the PC to get it is by definition easier than having to do it. The solution to the puzzles being too easy is to make them harder, not remove them completely. It's how we ended up with the endless halways and open fields of today.
>>58669805>Not needing to have a pokémon on your team with the correct move or not having to go to the PC to get it is by definition easier than having to do itNo, because “easier” implies it requires less brain power. It doesn’t. It’s just less time pointlessly wasted.Would the game be “harder” if it was exactly the same except forced you to watch a 30 second ad every 5 minutes?
>>58669828>No, because “easier” implies it requires less brain power.Which it does. Having to put a HM on your team requires you to have that thought. Not doing it requires no thoughts whatsoever. Incorporating HMs into your teams movepool isn't much of a chore. Having to get your HM slave from your PC is a tiny chore. But you deciding that you need 4 strong moves on all of your Pokémon is a deliberate choice on your part.
>>58669858>Which it does>>58665031
>>58669859You are very clearly not interested in a honest discussion. A simple thought is more complex that no thoughts whatsoever. And the solution to it being too simple is to make it more complex, not make the game even more braindead.
they need to bring back having to change boxes and withdraw/deposit because it makes the game harderthey need to bring back holding B to run because it makes the game harderthey need to bring back having to manually go into your bag to use a repel because it makes the game harderif you disagree with any of these you’re not interested in an honest discussion
>>58669911>they need to bring back having to change boxes and withdraw/deposit because it makes the game harderThis was a good change.Having to manually switch boxes was due to technical limitations and nothing was lost upon the change. That said the PC QoL has gone too far with the ability to access your boxes on the fly.That's the thing with QoL changes, they are not inherently good as you're implying with this post but rather have to be judged on a case by case basis.With the removal of HMs you do not just lose something to interact with in the overworld no matter how simple, but the sense of the world being more adventurous and uncharted, as well as giving your Pokémon something to do beyond being just battle machines and instead contributing in other ways to your journey as well. And what do you get in return? Some extra moveslots in an already easy game and an overworld with barely nothing in it besides grass and trainers.
>>58669941>and nothing was lost upon the changejust like removing HMs
>>58669946Do read my whole post please.
>>58669950I did.
>>58669956I doubt it because then you would have actually addressed the points.
>>58669911Tedious != hardPouring rice on the floor and putting it into a jar grain by grain isn't hard, a literal monkey could do that, it's just tedious
>>58669965Can a monkey use HMs in Pokémon?
>>58669965Busywork is the backbone of Pokémon.
I got Red canari plush, pink, blue maxed out. What's best? Green or Gold plush? Gold gives more money, green makes you less likely to black out
>>58669960You didn’t make any points.
>>58669965Exactly. HMs are worthless and removing them doesn’t make the game easier.
>>58670038With the removal of HMs you do not just lose something to interact with in the overworld no matter how simple, but the sense of the world being more adventurous and uncharted, as well as giving your Pokémon something to do beyond being just battle machines and instead contributing in other ways to your journey as well. And what do you get in return? Some extra moveslots in an already easy game and an overworld with barely anything in it besides grass and trainers.
>>58669970Yeah, duh, Simipour can learn Surf for example
>>58670047>With the removal of HMs you do not just lose something to interact with in the overworld no matter how simple, but [things that aren’t even remotely lost by the removal of HMs]Correct. You didn’t make any points.
>>58670058How do your Pokémon contribute to your journey beyond being battle machines in games without HMs?
>>58670063
>>58670075>raidonGlorified rental Pokemon forced on the player. Stuck in SV forever since you cannot transfer it to Home.Your actual party in that game contributes nothing whatsoever outside of battle.
>>58670091>D-D-DOESN’T COUNT!!!You lost.
>>58670100Th point is that you’re complaining about HMs being too restrictive while simultaneously praised an alternative that has only one Pokemon you have no input in choosing as a good solution.This isn’t traversing the world with the help of your Pokemon, this is being handed a Pokemon to help you traverse the world.
>>58669425Yes, it does
>>58670223No, it doesn't
>>58671176Yes, it does.
>>58671178No, it doesn't.
>>58670123>Th point is that you’re complaining about HMs pointlessly wasting your time while simultaneously praised an alternative that doesn’t pointlessly waste your timeUh…yes?
>>58671183Yes, it does.
>>58671186>>58671185No, it doesn't.
>>58671193Yes, it does.
>>58671199No, it doesn't
>>58668617No, it isn't
>>58671813Yes, it does.
>>58671821No, it doesn't
Doe, it yesn't
>>58671828No, it doesn't
>>58671825Yes, it does.
>>58671841No, it doesn't
>>58671844Yes, it does.
>>58671851No, it doesn't
>>58671855Yes, it doe.
>>58671858No, it isn't.
>>58671860Yes, it doesn.
>>58671862No, it doesn't.
>>58671864Yes, it does.
>>58671866No, it doesn't
>>58671867Yes, it doessssssssssssss.
>>58671875nah
One of the most autistic threads I've ever seen on here, and that's saying something
>>58671890no, it is not
>>58671892>>58671877yes, it is.
>>58671898noooo
>>58671904yea
>>58671815Yes, it is.
>>58671890Mods really don't give a fuck anymore. These two children break like 3 rules with every single post and mods just let them keep spamming. They gave up on this shitty board
>>58671917YES
>>58671917IT DOES
Infinite thread reply glitch
>>58671947>>58671948no...
>>58671949is it really a glitch though?
>>58671951Yes it issssssss
>>58672102No, it isn't
>>58672150Yes it does.
>>58672160No, it doesn't.
>>58672244Yes, it is.
SHUT THE FUCK UUUUUUUUUUUUPPPP
>>58670123but you unlock things on raidon that opens the path to new zones
>>58672288>>58672250>>58671911NO
>>58673909Yes, it is
>>58674148Naah, it can't be
>>58674152Yes thobeit.
>>58674156Nope, you're wrong
>>58674158No, you are.
>>58674163No, you are.
>>58674170No, you are.
>>58674175No, you are.
>>58674181No, you are.
>>58674184No, you are.
>>58674190No, you are.
>>58674195No you are.
>>58674195No, you are.
>>58674204No, you are.
>>58674207>>58674198No, you are.
>>58674211No, you are.
>>58674214No, you are.
>>58674220No, you are.
>>58668175Sneed
>>58674229No, you are.
>>58674233No, you arent.
>>58674237you are a tranny
No, you are.
>>58674271No, you are.
>>58674368No, you are.
>>58674441No, you are.
>>58673909Yes, it is, has there even been another thread with such degree of in-depth discussion over a topic?And no, waifu ones don't count.
>>58674453No, it doesn't
>>58674459Yes, it does.
>>58674470No, it doesn't
>>58674489Yes, it does.
>>58674493No, it doesn't
>>58674498Yes, it does.
>>58674502No, it doesn't
>>58674511Yes, it doesn.
it's growing on me
>>58674521No, it doesn't
>>58674532Yes, it does.
>>58674542No, it doesn't
>>58674550Yes, it does.
>>58674558No, it doesn't
>>58674564Yes, it does.
>>58674566No, it doesn't
>>58674573Yes, it doesn.
>>58674580No, it doesn't
>>58674583Yes, it does.
>can use water moves to remove sludgesSo why isn't water super effective against poison?
>>58674586No, it doesn't.
>>58674590Yes, it does.
>>58674594No, it doesn't
>>58674596Yes, it does.
>>58674598No, it doesn't.
>>58674602Yes, it does.
>>58674604No, it doesn't.
>>58674614you are a tranny
>>58674628Yes he is a tranny
>Anonymity is such a good idea, it gives us freedom of speech and allow us to freely say whatever we want to say without any consequences>Also anonymity:
>>58674614Yes, it does.
>>58674986No, it doesn't
>>58674996Yes, it does.
>>58675000No, it doesn't
>>58674816>le no one:>le literally no one:
>>58674816Anonymity normally works because you have moderation that gives a shit.When mods don't give a shit, or actually encourage this kind of retardation, it invites the desolate shitscape state of boards like /vp/, completely lacking in moderation as multiple schizos and bored sharteens find their own individual ways to shit up the board.
>>58675156>it invites the desolate shitscape state of boards like /vp/no it doesn't..
>>58675002>>58675172yes, it does.
>>58675381No, it doesn't
>>58675388Yes, it does.
>>58675392No, it doesn't
>>58675397Yes, it does.
>>58675400No, it doesn't.
>>58675405Yes, it does.
>>58675410No, it doesn't.
>>58675415Yes, it does.
>>58675418No, it doesn't.
>>58675423Yes, it does.
>>58675429Nom it doesn't
>>58675431Yes, it does.
>>58675435No, it doesn't.
>>58675438Yes, it does.
>>58675439No,it doesn't
>>58664056Big disagree. It's the best implementation of HMs to date.Previously, you needed a 1 specific move to get rid of a specific obstacle. Now they introduced several ways to get rid of stuff like using psychic moves on pollution, or flare blitz on boulders being able to use your own pokemon, not just a move, to solve a problem is cool as hell.
>>58675477no it isn't
bumpan
>>58664056I agree, it's a little annoying
>>58675576no, it's MILDLY
Can this thread die already?
>>58675622No, it can't
>>58675622Just as soon as all the Eevee threads die, don't you worry!
>>58675500Yes, it is.
>>58675756No, it isn't.
>>58665020>Me with any fucking pokemon that can emite light>UH NO HE CANT LIGHT UP THE CAVERN HE NEEDS THIS ONE MOVE FLASHIt is retarded, HMs should be inate.
>>58669941>And what do you get in return?- The ability to have a monotype team during the journey- The ability to have a full eeveelution team without being cucked by FLY- The logical conclusion that MEGA CUTTER and SLASH and PSYCHO CUT should cut a fucking little tree like CUT does- 50%+ of my water pokemon's moveslot being more than SURF/WATERFALL/DIVE/WHIRLPOOLSincerely, ZA got it right, once you have unlocked the HM, any similar type of move should act like it.
>>58675789Yes, it is.
>>58675923No, it isn't
>>58676448Yes, it is.There will be NO further argument.
>this shit is still goingFuck yourselves mods
>>58676455No, it isn't.There WILL be further argument.
>>58676576Yes, it is.
>>58669115Gonna preface my response by saying you articulated yourself very well, so credit where it's due>The problem is that over time a lot of people for whatever reason has come to the conclusion that a Pokémon's moveset should only be useful in battle, which is how we have ended up in the current era where Pokémon are nothing but battle machines and any other things you can use them for are usually entirely isolated systems.Here's my thing with HMs, in say, gen 4 as an example, only 3 of the moves were really worthwhile in battle.>surf was a genuinely good water stab option, only being diminished by scald competing with it>fly as a flying attack was usable in playthroughs, only losing out to acrobatics in gen 5>waterfall was to my knowledge the best physical water move available until liquidation(?)I guess my point is, if the HM moves weren't typically actual dogshit, I wouldn't mind having to have 7/24 of my attack slots be dead weight hiking my ass up to Red quite as much.
>>58676579No, it isn't.
>>58677599Yes, it is.
>>58677603No, it isn't
>>58677608Yes, it is.
>>58677612No, it isn't.
>>58677616Yes, it is
>>58677619No, it isn't
>>58677623Yes, it is.
>>58677628No, it isn't
>>58677642yes, it is.
>>58677651No, it isn't.
>>58677653Yes, it is.
>>58664056Holy kinoI love this fucking board
>>58677661No, it isn't
>>58677673Yes, it is.
>>58677678You are a tranny
>>58677678No, it isn't
>>58677703Yes, it is.
>>58677651>>58677653>>58677661>>58677673>>58677678>>58677703Both of you are wrong actually
>>58677710No, it isn't...
>>58677712I am right, he is wrong actually>>58677717Yes, it is.
>>58677712>>58677723Nope.
>>58677733Yup, W-R-O-N-G.
>>58677738
>>58677741Yes. it is.
>>58677751No, it isn't
>>58677755Yes, it is.
>>58677757No, it really isn't.
>>58677763Yes, it is!!!!!!
>>58677766No, it isn't.
>>58677768Yes, itis.
>>58664056wait a fucking second>PLZA>PLaZA>we're in city with plazas as wild zonesholy shit
Im gay.
>>58677775No, it isn't.
>>58677791Yes, it is.
>>58677801No,it isn't
>>58677806Yes, it is.
>>58677813no...
>>58677818yes it is
>>58677824NO
>>58677827yes it is.
>>58677831No, it isn't.
>>58678511Yes, it is.
>>58678517No, it isn't.
>>58678519Yes, it is.
>>58678523No, it isn't
>>58678528Yes, it is.
>>58678532No, it isn't
>>58678535Yes, it is.
Thread's dead
>>58678538No, it isn't.
>>58678543Yes, it isn't.
>>58678544No...
>>58678558Yes, it is...
>>58678574No, it isn't.
>>58678578Yes, it is.
>>58678541Next thread when? This is some intense discussion that we ever have on /vp/
>>58678582No, it is.
>>58678587Yes, it is.
>>58678594No... it isn't
>>58678597Yes, it is.
>>58677778
>>58679024>>58679047No, it isn't
>>58679052Yes, it is.
>>58679057No, it isn't.
>>58679324
