Is it just me or were Gen5 the last good games? Everything after it is trash, there is not a single character, pokemon or game after gen5 that i even come close to likingImo they should hand pokemon to rockstar games so we get a good game again
>>59239661>hot take thread>look inside>it's an ice cold takeit is true tho
>>59239661>Imo they should hand pokemon to rockstar games so we get a good game againYou were doing so well until you got to here. Game Freak is garbage, but I'd also rather not wait 30 years for Rockstar to finish meticulously rendering Charizard's balls so they can finally release a $100 cinematic live-service slop that's designed around making you buy Sharpedo Cards.
I think Pokémon was never good, Gen 1 was the only game made with ambition and care
>>59239661Maybe not Rockstar, I'd rather Int Sys, FromSoft, Square or Monolith Soft.
>>59239661>Is it just me or were Gen5 the last good games?They're worse than the gens before and after them, so no
>>59239776According to a retarded minority who do not appreciate video games as an art form
>>59239779>ad populumThanks for proving my point.
>>59239661
>>59239785
>>59239783Ad populum isn't even a bad argument. If a lot of people like something, there's clearly a reason why. Ask a Gen 5 fan why they like it. They'll give you s multitude of reasons.
>>59239788BW is better
>>59239794>Ad populum isn't even a bad argumentYou're right, it isn't. Gen 5 are the worst games because they sold the worst.
>>59239799Because most fans had already left the series in either Gen 3 or 4 and didn't come back until a few years later. It was also one of the most pirated DS games
>>59239661Gen 5 fans really don't like to be compared to genwunners but they sure as shit act exactly like them.
>>59239807>Because most fans had already left the series in either Gen 3 or 4 and didn't come back until a few years laterBecause Gen 5 was bad and didn't convince them to come back, yes.
>>59239808No, the overwhelming majority of gen 5 fans will also praise 3 and 4, since we are true fans. Genwunners refuse to accept anything other than genwun because they are only fans of their own childhood nostalgia, not Pokemon.
>>59239785>>59239788hi kojo
>>59239825>No, the overwhelming majority of gen 5 fans will also praise 3 and 4Yeah, because they need to coattail ride on good games to pretend their bad games fit in.
>>59239825>true fansSo basically "I'm right, you're wrong"?/vp/ is full of people who automatically hate every Pokemon from Gen 8 and 9.Nostalgiafags aren't limited to just genwunners
>BW2Good, great even>BW1Trash
>>59239815Actually no. They didn't come back because Pokémon was not as popular from Gen 3 to early Gen 6. Then a few months after XY came out, everyone flocked to it because it was one of the few good 3DS games at the time. Plus a lot more zoomers came in.
>>59239924>They didn't come back because Pokémon was not as popular from Gen 3 to early Gen 6Because games like Gen 5 were bad, yes. And then when the quality improved in Gen 6 they came back.
>>59239853Then how come most Gen 3 and 4 fans like Gen 5?
>>59239931>Then how come most [good game] fans like [bad game]?They don't. That's a cope you made up.
>>59239661Aspie thread
>>59239930Not true. Gen 1 was where it started. Pokémania was all the rage. Gen 2 had a declinne, but Pokémon was still 'in'. Gen 3 is where the decline was noticable, mostly due to the original fans 'growing up' (young kids —> teens) and naturally losing interest, plus some lost interest in the games but still liked the anime or collecting the cards. We didn't see much of an increase until Gen 6, because that is when most of the zoomers were old enough to buy these games with their allowance. Additionally, Gen 6 was also rated as the 'nostalgia period' for many, so some old fans came back.>>59239934I'm a Gen 3 fan. I didn't invent that cope, rvery other Gen 3 fan I interact with loves Gen 5.
>>59239994Never thought of it like that. I just assumed Gen 5 was bad. I never actually played it. Should I?
>>59239808Borts act like how Johtoddlers used to act years ago.
>>59239931>most Gen 3 fans like Gen 5that's false>>59239934this>>59239994you're a zoomer bort who keeps larping as otherwise
>>59240054I didn't know Johtoddlers were rspectful and open minded.
>>59239930>Because games like Gen 5 were bad, yes. And then when the quality improved in Gen 6 they came back.this
>>59239785When you remember that XY ran at 15 FPS right side is a lot less impressive. Its why Gamefreak disabled 3D in future games.
>>59239785Both are shit, for different reasons, XY is still a garbage product
>>59239661That's not really a hot take, it's a universally accepted truth.
>>59239994>We didn't see much of an increase until Gen 6,Because the games stopped being bad, yes.
>>59240069says who
>>59239994>rvery other [good game] fan I interact with loves [bad game that contains nothing of what made good game good]
>>59240090he's a habitual falseflagger
>>59239807Gen 3 is where Pokemon fell off for normies. It doesnt have anything to do with people not liking Gen 5. Also if you want to use Ad Populum as an argument there is an inverse correlation with quality and sales. Trash like SV is on top when shit like Platinum Emerald and BW2 are on bottom. Like I think Gamefreak used to be passionate about Pokemon but when they realized people didnt care about their Magnum Opus games and bought their worst slop in droves they just gave up. Even HGSS sold pretty mid compared to other Pokemon games. But does that make LGPE better games? Fuck no.
>>59240101SV is better than all three of those games.
>>59240097>Calling Anons false flaggersMeds takey
>>59240106In what way?
>>59240115Being a new game instead of lazy scam rehashesHaving good writingHaving good difficultyHaving good exploration
>>59240083No, it's because of a large cultural shift. Pokémon was hot again because all the little kids were getting into it and their parents deciding to get a new game for nostalgia purposes, or because their kid wanted it. Plus a lot of people bought it because it was on thenew 3DS system, which was one of the reasons BW didn't sell as well. Also look at how close the sales numbers are.
>>59240158>Pokémon was hot again because all the little kids were getting into it and their parents deciding to get a new game for nostalgia purposesWhich they did because the games became good again.>Also look at how close the sales numbers are.It's not really that close when you realize the DS had a drastically higher install base than the 3DS yet somehow Gen 5 sold worse than 6.
>>59240144BW2 isn't a lazy scam rehash>Good writingPlease play other games.
>>59240086Most people who played it
>>59240083Says who?>>59240090Ok but why do you say it's bad?
>>59240101I'm the one trying to say that sales ≠ quality but I still try to explain why a game may have sold worse
>>59240106Doesn't make it better
>>59240144>Being a new game instead of lazy scam rehashesSo like RB, GS, RS, DP, BW, BW2, XY, SM, SWSH, LA, and ZA?>Having good writing'Muh dog is dying'>Having good difficultyEvery battle is mash A unless you go to Grusha early or something. Should've had scaling.>Having good explorationIt's mid imo
>>59240185
>>59240164>Which they did because the games became good again.Did you not read what I said? It's because kids who were likely born around Gen 3 and 4 had grown old enough to have a game system of their own and the 3DS was the hottest system at the time >It's not really that close when you realize the DS had a drastically higher install base than the 3DS yet somehow Gen 5 sold worse than 6.The 3DS was selling like hot cakes when XY dropped. BW was late enough in the DS era that people weren't really going to buy it because it was on the old system and there was a new one around the corner
>>592402294chan isn't most people
>>59239661I almost thought I'd lost this thread
>>59240256Correct. Though Pokémon XY was one of the few decent games on the system, so pretty much everyone who had a 3DS had a copy. Meanwhile BW came out towards the end of the DS life, when people started getting sick of the DS.
Unova won
>>59241044Like always
>>59241044The least selling mainline award.
>>59240065Xy is among the games that run well, gen5 and gen3 are the only gens that run better.
>>59241070>Xy is among the games that run wellXY were the first Pokemon games I can remember noticeably chugging
>>59241082I never noticed anything running poorly in the battles, sm was very noticeably worse.
>>59239661You started off right and then somehow went complete retard at the end.
>>59241087Try double battles in 3d
>>59240256>BW was late enough in the DS era that people weren't really going to buy itBecause the game was bad, yes. If the game was good people still would have bought it.
>>59241114XY doesn’t lag in double battles either. That’s SM. It’s weird how a lot of the revisionism surrounding XY is just retards trying to conflate the problems of the other 3D games into it.
>>59239661>>59239779>unova thread>full of pseud faggotsEvery time
>>59241174>pseud faggotsNew buzzword unlocked!
>>59241176>newUnderage esl
>>59241114I just tried running a 3d double battle in the battle facility and it didn't seem to allow it to go to 3d.
>>59241180 uses Buzzword Barrage!It's not very effective.
>>59241213You write like such a fag.
>>59241219>fagLook! Another buzzword!
>>59239788>BW isn't good because I can't fill my party with shitmons that stop being useful by the 4th gym
>>59239661Stunning brave take anonI never heard anyone have this opinion before
>>59239661>Imo they should hand pokemon to rockstar games so we get a good game againBait used to be believable
>>59239661>stealth koyawnie threadYou know what to do boys, don't engage with that jeet retard
take so cold that my balls are freezing
>>59239661gen 7 has, by far, the best character and pokemon designs of the entire franchise
>>59241387>off brand HoennHoenn is wholly superior to Hoenn and it isn't even top 3 anon
>>59241163Marginally less people bought it than Gen 4. These games still sold beyond most publishers wildest dreams and you troglodytes act like it sold less than a million copies.
>>59239661I'll be honest, Gen 6 was a pretty decent jump to 3D. They just couldn't follow up with it afterwards and came up with regional gimmicks instead of expanding on the decent mechanics they came up with in that generation. Gen 7-8 are the real worst sinners. If they'd actually evolved the franchise after Gen 6, we'd be looking at it more fondly.
>>59240229Honeymoon phase. XY was a relative novelty back when it launched simply because of its jump to 3D (most people were getting tired of 2D sprites back around Gen 5).
>>59241070
>>59241452How did he not die?
>>59241459pokehumans are way stronger than regular humans, this is stated multiple times, pokehumans are a type of pokemon.
>>59241452Alder is such a chad, sadly we meet him AFTER his ace dies.
>>59241444It also helped that the game was actually good, unlike the games directly preceding it
>>59241483Forgot to post pic
>>59239994>, rvery other Gen 3 fan I interact with loves Gen 5.Most gen 3 fans are either gen 4 or gen 6 fags.
>>59239875/thread
>>59239661If you truly felt this way, you wouldn’t be on this board
>>59240144Emerald has bad difficulty now eh yawnfag? Your brain tumor doesn't like the Battle Frontier today?
>>59241590>Emerald has bad difficulty nowalways has been
>>59241592You could make the same gif with every other Pokémon game.
>>59241617Can't with Ranger
>>59241620Mainline game*
>>59241626
>>59239853Nta but not sure what's your game here, the general consensus among fans now is that Gen 5 was great but too different which led to bad sales and now because of that GF only releases safe, rushed nostalgia pandering products knowing that they will sell
>>59241758>but too differentBeing “too different” by cutting a bunch of content and making the game more handholdy and linear means the game is just bad, anon.
>>59241835>by cutting a bunch of contentWhat content?
>>59241838>please post the obviously cut content everyone is aware of so I can just say it doesn’t count or it was replaced by an obviously worse thing I’ll pretend is better!I’ll pass, sagie.
>>59241838frontierpokeradarshiny legendaries
>>59241838BW1 is really shit tho, they removed contests, good exploration, interesting post game, the world in general feels lifeless, all of this for " If we can win people's hearts and minds, we can easily create the world that I--I mean, Team Plasma--desires!"It's a bad game on every level. BW2 fixes this completely tho
>>59239661They are mid aside the great and somewhat innovative main story. BW2 are superior in pretty much all ways aside the main plot (but BW2 story is still solid)
>>59239661You're the 9000th person to have this bad take.
>>59239779>thinking GenV games are high art.Anon was right. GenVfags are pretentious theatre kids.
>>59241854>frontierYou can fight the 7 sages in BW and BW2 as one of the biggest post games in the franchise>pokeradar>shiny legendariesWho cares?>>59241859>they removed contests, good exploration, interesting post game, the world in general feels lifeless,I disagree
>Who cares?Millions of people.
>>59241927the only thing with the pokemon label that can be considered art is gen 1 i think>>59241930I think it's important to separate BW1 from BW2
>>59239931We don't. You're coping.
>>59239930You guys are out of touch Gen V as some of the highest rated Pokémon games in the mainline series
I've noticed something, even if yawnfag might be exaggerating, BW1 fans (not so much BW2) never get into the merits, I mean they just repeat "it's peak" but without critically debunking the accusations made by those who can't stand it, the Munna scene, Ghetsis's moronic laughing, I don't know, maybe it really is just uncritical nostalgia
>>59241992Because the second you start looking at gen 5 objectively you notice it’s categorically worse than both HGSS and XY. So the best you can do is screech about the hype moments and aura and attempt to cling onto gen 4 and pretend they’re in the same group of quality.
>>59241992They have good story for Pokémon standards, good difficulty increase, fun gimmicks, interesting locations
>>59242008>[lie],[lie],[lie],[lie]
yawnfag containment thread
>>59242016Then why are they rated so high in every website?
>>59242026You mean like this
>>59242026Then why did it sell so poorly?
>>59239661>rockstarwhy?they make nigger games, not children's games
>>59242033Piracy probably played a big role. Now answer my question
>>59241758Being different isnt even the issue. BW are superficially different but practically very same-y. They were also content bare compared to the previous games.When I was younger, the main thing I looked forward to in Pokémon sequels was if the region felt like a good place to move all my pokemon and items to compared to the previous game. And Unova was just such an empty region that I didnt feel compelled to do it. Most of ones time in Pokémon is spent in post-game and not being able to port over my items and TMs or not having something like secret bases or thr Underground or contests etc.
>>59241992you're new herethat's been their playbook for 8+ years
>>59242026nostalgiaevery generation has nostalgic fans who rate each pair of games as the best ever
>>59239661Get off my lawn.
>>59241982*you're* out of touch if you think anyone is rating it en masse *except* zoomers
>>59242072The ratings were given when the games came out and they were higher than previous mainline games that aren't remakes
>>59242067Nostalgiafaggotry probably played a big role. Now answer my question
>>59242002This
>>59242079they were paid for their score
>>59242075>>59242083How is nostalgia if the games were given those ratings as soon as they came out? There are many videos on YT that praise Gen V as the best games
>>59242067>p-piracy!!Wasn't an issue for gen 3 or 4. Ehy just gen 5?
>>59242093r4 are cheap, they were everywhere by the release of gen5
>>59242090>There are many videos on YT that praise Gen V as the best gamesmade by..................... you guessed it: Zoomers
>>59242085So are the other Pokémon games your point? Fans also rated them very high >>59242096>Zoomers Not really, they are usually younger millennials
>>59239779Based and true>>59239783>>59241174>>59241927Philistines, the lot of you
>>59242110>they are usually younger millennialsThose are the hoenn glazers
>>59239661I do not recall when exactly the “we’re designing pokemon as a live service game even though it isn’t” shit really began, but I do know it was definitely on the Switch. And gen5 was maybe the last time when they made more interesting choices, So sure, gen 5. The legends games were neat, but that’s it.
>>59242136thisxhe really doesn't know what xhe's talking about in terms of cohorts and game preferences mapping
>>59242149>I do not recall when exactly the “we’re designing pokemon as a live service game even though it isn’t” shit really began,
>>59242170LmaoThey removed contests and side activities for this btw
>>59242093>Wasn't an issue for gen 3 or 4Xe didn't play pokemon quartz on xer gameboy advance sp
>>59242170kek bodied that freak
>>59241483If that were the case we'd have more XY circlejerking threads and not the other way around. It hasn't stood the test of time.
>>59242206Kaloschads don't need to make circlejerk threads on 4chan, we actually play the games.
>>59242206Kalos fans aren’t insecure retards who constantly need to convince others that their games are good
>>59242212>>59242218That's a cope and you know it.>we actually play the games.That's what gen 1-4 stans are doing. You're damage controlling against unovabortions.
>>59242223cope
>>59242206>It hasn't stood the test of time>>59242170
>>59242226That's sad
>>59242235enough about your mothers diary talking about you though
>>59242170It was free but okay dokey
>>59242239yours said you were a mistake
>>59242248put it down already
>>59242245Yes retard that’s how live service games work
>>59242192>don’t have to grind daily raids or pokemon for materials just to make TMs>TMs you only had to buy once and they were yours for team building for the rest of the game>pokewalker existed in gen4, gatekeeping a lot of content too, and is rarely ever discussed as a “flaw” in HGSS even though it seems to have been intended to fix common dex complaints.Okay, sure dream world was a grind, but that was outside the game itself. I concede that’s a “live service” feature, but man I don’t really think that compares to needing to grind or run multiple save files because you needed a single use TM more than once.
>>59242149Bank was on DS doebeit
>>59242258Rude and for Pokémon Home you need to pay money if you want to transfer Mons from the 3ds
>>59240060It says nothing about who voted. How do you know they're Gen 3-4 fans?There's also a lot more people than the ones who voted here. Additionally, if they are fans of 3-4, you'd expect those to get the most votes. Unova coming second in it's respective poll is inpressive.
>>59240060>you're a zoomer bort who keeps larping as otherwiseAnd where'd you get that impression? Just because I say something that you disagree with doesn't mean it's false, especially when it lines up with the easy to verify reality.>>59240064Sales≠qualityPlus BW were pirated like crazy to the point that many rom sites went down from sheer traffic>>59240065And rom hackers are capable of getting them to run at 30fps, so Game Freak must be really incompetent when it comes to optimization.
>>59242372>Sales≠qualityGlad we agree ad populum isn’t an argument
>>59242350>Additionally, if they are fans of 3-4, you'd expect those to get the most votesthey didThey got more votes than any other gen
>>59242149>I do not recall when exactly the “we’re designing pokemon as a live service game even though it isn’t” shit really beganIt began with the 3DS era, which is when Game Freak started blatantly mailing in the campaign and postgame and using online PVP and RNG shiny hunting as a crutch for their laziness.
>>59242430>It began with the 3DS era,>>59242170
>>59239931If this wasn't a lie you'd have the same type of faggotry that comes with unova threads in gen 3/4 threads. But there isn't. Other gen fans don't feel the need to constantly attach themselves to other games that people like.
>>59242262Infinite TMs were bad. They broke game balance.>but the game only gives you weak ones before post game to balance it!Why is this a good thing? That breaks the point of TMs.
>>59242262>>pokewalker existed in gen4, gatekeeping a lot of content too, and is rarely ever discussed as a “flaw” in HGSS even though it seems to have been intended to fix common dex complaints.Literally just muh surfing Pikachu. GenVfags are the worst.
>>59242469It's good because he NEEDS them. Having to make a choice in an RPG would be terrible.
>>59242475Shilling Infinite use TMs only works for comfaggotry, which defeats their argument then about which gens expect you to just do PvP as a cope for no actual content.
>>59241087Yeah that's why they cut Triple and Rotation battles. The game had all these extra models to render and the game already lagged enough
>>59242483Any argument is easily defeated when you combine different people like that.
>>59242498Sure thing.
>>59241163Literally one of the main complaints from people who didn't buy was that it was on the DS and not on the 3DS
>>59241171It does. Watch the videos showing tbe lag
>>59242529>Literally headcanon
>>59242529>making shit upThe 3DS was selling poorly at the time. Barely anyone had it or cared. People were saying Nintendo will/shpuld go 3rd party like SEGA.
Everyone at Pokemon sucks though.Tajiri was an incompetent buffoon who only got lucky his first time, and then as soon as he realized lightning doesn't strike twice, he completely bailed like the manchild he is and forced the rest of GameFreak to deal with it.Masuda was a control freak who got too cocky, and then paid the price come the DS-3DS transition when Pokemon's vulnerabilities made it unpopular in the west AND made jap kids think it was a "franchise for old fogeys", hence Yokai Watch's surging popularity that put GameFreak into pure panic mode.Ohmori's a one trick pony who keeps playing his same set of cards every three/four years and expects us to clap and cheer like it's something new and groundbreaking to have YET ANOTHER story that's only happening because of NPC family drama based on his own traumatic childhood.Sugimori literally doesn't even like Pokemon anymore and would rather keep making shit designs out of spite than actually just remove himself from their development.Morimoto focuses on style over substance, which is why Emerald and HGSS weren't as fantastic as they could've been, despite all the efforts to cram them full of shit.The rest, there's simply not enough to have a good picture on them beyond the GameFreak standard of being chaotic fucks who have no incentive to genuinely improve their craft because they've been hard carried by Pokemon's unfathomable success for nearly 30 years straight.
>>59241171>XY doesn’t lag in double battles eitherThat shit lags in singles, under numerous conditions. The only time it doesn't lag is when basically nothing is going on and the Pokemon aren't too polygon intensive.https://youtu.be/SLTtYTzVOPw?si=CBMsQ3s3FnJqFyl5&t=141
>>59241592Didn't some guy try to beat Emerald with just Blaziken and was basically unable to beat the final boss without grinding?
>>59241444Also because the 3DS didn't have many games yet
>>59242561>pokemon youtuberlmao
>>59241452Is that artificially laggy or something?
>>59242569>XY doesn't lag>Shows video proof of lag>lol youtuberRetard
>>59242575I never said it didn't lag. I'm just laughing at you for running to google and searching laggiest pokemon game just to find the faggiest possible evidence.
>>59241541Not from my experience. Some Gen 3 fans like Gen 6 for ORAS, but otherwise, most prefer 5
>>59241592Play the game the intended way next time
>>59241626You could, but Yawnie will never do it for Gen 6 because he won't accept slander
>>59242595Im a gen 3fag and love gen 4 andn6, but don't like Gen5.
>>59241921Wow there's 9000?
>>59241927All video games are art, whether it's good art is subjective
>>59241943We do. They arent coping
>>59242595>I think this>most people think thisYou need to learn how to separate these things.
>>59242619This is why everyone thinks you guys are brown/zoomers
>>59242609Its the npc take these days so probably.
>>59239931>>59241541>>59241943Gen 3 fan here, you don't speak for all of us. Most at least tolerate Gen 5. I personally don't, but most of my friends growing up loved Gen 5, not as much as our first games though.
>>59242002Well many Gen 4 fans say they are>>59242016*thing I disagree with that's been proven to be true x4
>>59242033A mix of piracy being really easy, haters returning their copy and it being bought by someone else (does not affect sales), being late in the DS lifespan (being late in a console's life will reduce sales significantly) and many original fans leaving the series between gens 3-5 and not being replaced fast enough.
>>59242075I'm a millennial and I rated it>>59241992That's not really the case actually. When you look at it. Whenever someone critiques Gen 5, you get people thoroughly debunking them, because most of the criticism is incorrect or over exaggerated. But when someone gives a valid criticism, they accept that.
>>59242085By that logic, so were the others
>>59242090This is true. Majority of video reviews around the time of BW's international release praised it.>>59242093Piracy was still somewhat new in Gens 3 and 4, not becoming as big until soon after Platinum came out (even breaking many rom sites due to the sheer amount of downloads). By the time BW released, roms were easy to get, there were hundreds of sites. Also like >>59242095says, R4 cards.
>>59242655>being late in a console's life will reduce sales significantlyBeing later in a consoles life means making the most of the large install base. What being late in a consoles life actually means is the game doesnt push hardware units.
>>59242096If someone was an adult or late teen when Unova released, would they be a zoomer?
>>59239661HGSS are far better
>>59242136And a lot of Hienn glazers like Gen 5. Also there's a lot of Hoenn glazers who started with ORAS, and would therefore likely be a zoomer
>>59242647Why do you speak for most people but they don't?
>>59242170Would that really count?It was fun. Really fun. Don't know why it couldn't be built into the games though.
>>59242667>trying to tell me what it was like when I grew up in that era.I mean ffs I had a TTDS.If you had one, you weren't buying games to begin with. You couldn't afford it.
>>59242206Ehh there's a few. No one >>59242212You clearly don't with how little you actually know.>>59242218They are
>>59242656>But when someone gives a valid criticism, they accept that.>validAnd there's your special word that lets you ignore any complaints.
>>59242226Btw I liked Gen 5 more. I played Y online a lot though
>>59242258And they have purchases for currency, skins and DLC
>>59242656>That's not really the case actually. When you look at it. Whenever someone critiques Gen 5, you get people thoroughly debunking them, because most of the criticism is incorrect or over exaggerated. But when someone gives a valid criticism, they accept that.Bullshit, you dismiss all criticism as invalid. Gen5 fans are the least willing to accept criticism and have the biggest victim complex, and have been that way since the 2010s.
>>59242382Depends. Think about why so many people from many different groups like a thing? There's usually multiple options1. They were told to like it2. It was their first thing3. They just happen to enjoy itUsually the third is the most likely seekng as the other two assume shit and are harder to verify.
>>59241992>xe doesn't know half the BW defenders are just yawnfag replying to himselfGrim
>>59242384I know. That's why I said 'you'd expect them to win.'It's still impressive that Unova technically got the third most.
>>59242656>Whenever someone critiques Gen 5, you get people thoroughly debunking them, because most of the criticism is incorrect or over exaggerated. But when someone gives a valid criticism, they accept that.To be fair, most people (most fans of any gen) are like that, we just have a resident schizo who loves to instigate flamewars.
>>59242445Gen 5 fans don't attach themselves though. 4chan isn't the only place, we're a very tiny minority
>>59242720>Gen 5 fans don't do thing they're doing itt right nowokay
>>59242729>ignores "4chan isn't the only place, we're a very tiny minority"Just admit you're addicted to baiting responses
>>59242735>ignores extra retarded partYeah. 4chan is a normie website with the same general opinions any other place like reddit or youtube would have.
>>59242537Go read old game FAQs and Serebii threads then get back to me.>>59242540I'm not. People weren't buying the 3DS because there weren't very many good games on it. XY helped boost the sales significantly. Every kid wants Pokémon for their birthday, but when it's on a new system, their parents have to cave in and buy it, or say no because it's expensive.
>>59242569>video proving me wrong"I-its u-unreliable''
>>59242740>so terminally online xe thinks anons, ytbers and redditurds are "your average person"gr8 b8 m8
>>59242647In my friend friend group, Gen 5 was divisive. But even the ones that liked it more than the rest of us prefered Gen 4 and 6.
>>59242585It's better than no evidence. But Yisuno and some other guy on Twitter did a deep dive and confirmed that XY is laggy.
>>59242752Gen 5 are the best RPGs mainline has had but they are kinda bad pokemon games.
>>59242603There are exceptions. No one said all Gen 3/4 fans, just many or most
>>59242750>>59242757>malding so hard that they can't tell people apartkek
>>59242761Is this the new cope now?
>>59242751>using quotation marks in greentext>not even quoting something that was saidSmartest zoomer
>>59242621I know how to separate those things. Just because I think or feel a certain way, doesn't mean others will, however in my experience, most do like a lot if the same things. That's to be expected as a Pokémon fan, though we all like what we like for different reasons.
>>59242778>I know how to>here's some cope for why I don't tho
>>59242628How so?>>59242633Define 'NPC take'>>59242647Your first games being Gen 3?
>>59242545>Masuda was a control freak who got too cocky, and then paid the price come the DS-3DS transition when Pokemon's vulnerabilities made it unpopular in the west AND made jap kids think it was a "franchise for old fogeys", hence Yokai Watch's surging popularity that put GameFreak into pure panic mode.Depending on how soon in XY's development cycle it happened, Masuda may have already been forced out of the director's chair by the time Yo-kai Watch came out in Japan. In either case, it didn't really start taking off until the anime debuted the following year, and GF's initial response to that was those trash Hoenn demakes directed by Ohmori. So YKW kicking Pokemon's ass for a few years was Ohmori's fault, not Masuda's.
>>59242782A take that is repeated without much scrutiny or critical assessment since everyone else seems to be making it.
>>59239661this wasnt a hot take until like a year ago
>>59242768what do you mean?
>>59242745>People weren't buying the 3DS because there weren't very many good games on it.No, people weren't buying the 3DS because Nintendo priced it too high and the consumers hadn't become entirely castrated brand slaves who'd just buy it anyway yet. It started selling immediately once Nintendo lowered the price.
>>59242661Good point. But there's no evidence any of them (including Gen 5) were paid. Saying that a positive review for a game you hate is paid is pure cope.
>>59242694>Gen5 fans are the least willing to accept criticismthat's johtoddlers
>>59242791"its a good RPG but a bad RPG"
>>59242672>Being later in a consoles life means making the most of the large install base. What being late in a consoles life actually means is the game doesnt push hardware units.Theoretically yes, but being later means most people have moved onto newer hardware and likely don't keep up with old hardware related news
>>59242797Give examples that isnt jist criticizing the game for not following the pattern set by gen 3.
>>59242801case in point
>>59242798That's not what I said, maybe you need to improve your reading comprehension, what you just did is known as a false equivalency.
>>59242673Yes because only zoomers have positive opinions on Unova
>>59242800But we already established the 3DS didnt sell initially when Gen 5 was out.So which is it?It seems to be whatever serves your defense of Gen 5.Pokemon isnt even "hardware related news". Its the reverse. Pokemon sells units.
>>59242802>case in point>0 argumentHow is anyone supposed to accept criticism that doesn't exist?
>>59242809case in point
>>59242802>no real argument.I rest my case.
>>592428073DS was selling poorly, the price cut definitely helped move units but it's stupid to pretend pokemon didn't also sell a ton of units. I'd say Mario Kart, Pokemon and Smash were the biggest unit sellers during the 3DS era.
>>59242803Is Pokemon an RPG or not? Why would there be some seperate standard for Pokemon as an RPG and RPGs in general?How would the game be hood in one and bad in the other, especially when Pokemon isnt even all that great of an RPG?It is what you said.
>>59242813I agree. My point then is that their argument of "everyone moved onto the 3DS already" doesn't hold up.
>>59242811I'm not even the anon you were originally talking to. I'm giving you the oportunity to can provide the criticism instead of behaving like a bitch and just replying with sassy one liners.
>>59242656>no berry farming>contests gone>no ball seals>both extra difficulty options are easy mode>infinite TMsAll undebunkable
>>59242680I don't speak for most. It's just a habit of mine. But judging based on my experience and observations, as well as those from others, most actually might be accurate.
>>59242685Correct. Well I bought games before I got a flash card of my own (didn't know they existed until a kid at school showed me). Pokémon Black was the last game I bought before I got one.
>>59242816>Is Pokemon an RPG or not? On the widest sense, yes, but it's a broad label.>Why would there be some seperate standard for Pokemon as an RPG and RPGs in general?Because RPGs is a broad term, Pokemon is also a videogame and there are different standards [for what you would expect] for Pokémon than for let's say a Resident Evil game or a Street Fighter game. Wouldn't you agree?>How would the game be hood in one and bad in the other, especially when Pokemon isnt even all that great of an RPG?Explained above.>It is what you said.It is what you misunderstood.
>>59242688Valid criticism means criticism that is objectively correct and can be proven so.>>59242694>Bullshit, you dismiss all criticism as invalid. Gen5 fans are the least willing to accept criticism and have the biggest victim complex, and have been that way since the 2010s.Maybe the ones on 4chan but if you look literally anywhere else, that's not the case.
>>59242708Never noticed that. It makes perfect sense.
>>59242857It is objectively my opinion that gen 5 is shit.
>>59242729Point out examples >>59242740And yet 4chan has a vastly different 'majority opinion' compared to most other places.
>>59242852>Because RPGs is a broad term,Not really. We both know what we are talking about. Save the pretentious definition games.
>>59242835>no berry farmingYes just like MOST pokemon games, berry farming are a gen 3 gimmick that was phased out rather quickly.>contests goneAnother regional gimmick that got phased out, Unova has musical contests which is basically what replaced contests, you can follow the idea of "interacting with your pokemon beyond fighting" from contests->music shows->amie->camping/picnics>no ball sealsSinnoh only gimmick>both extra difficulty options are easy modeDemonstrably wrong. If you argue hard mode is "easier" due to extra EXP, easy is "harder" due to less EXP since GF are retarded and they botched the stats.>infinite TMsHow is this supposed to be bad? Infinite TMs are great.
>>59242866Every post that says most fans of one gen also like gen 5 is attaching themselves. Do you know how to read? You've probably posted one of them yourself.
>>59242751Some are. The average ones are the ones with very few views.
>>59242857The ones on 4chan are only different in that they attempt to feign at having a position instead of just calling you a genuine frame one. And some of you still do that here.
>>59242871Do you expect the same thing from Skyrim or Baldur's Gate 3 as you do for Pokemon? All of them are RPGs
>>59242752In my friend group, it was mostly positive but we agreed it was flawed and overall worse than Gen 4. We were in high school when it came out
>>59242878This is exactly what everyone was saying gen 5 fans do before you were baited into doing it.
>>59242761Huh?>>59242765Sorry, replied to the wrong person, meant for >>59242569
>>59242888I'm not a gen 5 fan though, your "criticism" is disingenuous because GF is known for forcing their asymmetrical design philosophy. You can "criticise" all gens this way, people will recognise it's intellectually dishonest and reply.We've been through this, you're just addicted to baiting replies. Do you have anything worthwhile to add to the discourse?
>>59242779Explain
>>59242786I see. I fail to see how it's an NPC take then>>59242788I'd say more like 5-6 years ago.
>>59242878>berry farming are a gen 3 gimmick that was phased out rather quickly.What is this cope? Gen 5 was the outlier. Gen 6 had berry farming.>regional gimmickGen 3 and 4 both had it. Gen 5 is the generation that didnt have them.HGSS at least replaced it with Pokeathalon. Musicals dont replace these.>Sinnoh only gimmickThere's nothing about them that makes them something that would be exclusive to Sinnoh.Is this just gonna be your argument? Dismiss everything as a gimmick?>Infinite TMs are great.See>>59242469
>>59242888>anon asks for sincere criticisms>retardbro replies with "waaaaah why aren't these games like RSE or DPPt??!!">retardbro wants to be taken seriouslynever go full retard, retardbro
>>59242794Even after the price cut, it still didn't sell well, not until it had more games
>>59242886Anon, answer my questions.>answ-I asked first. Answer mine first.
>>59242804That's not true.
>>59242878>Yes just like MOST pokemon games, berry farming are a gen 3 gimmick that was phased out rather quickly.Or if you look at it like a normal human you'd see it goes nothing, apricorns, berries, honey trees, and then during bw it was nothing again.>Unova has musical contestsYeah and they're shit.>Sinnoh only gimmickIt wouldn't have been if the generation after had them. Which gen was that?>difficulty optionsPlay the games if you're going to cocksuck them this hard. It's called challenge mode, first of all you dumb faggot. Secondly, it's easier on challenge mode because you get boosted exp against pokemon with the same lower level stats. It's also easier on easy mode because you're facing the worst possible level of ai on every trainer. No, the higher ai on challenge mode does not make up for all the extra levels.>infinite TMsChanged for all the autists that are too scared/stupid to make a choice in a video game.In summary, kill yourself.
>>59242813And the OOT remaster
>>59242887>highscoolSame here!For the record, I dont even think Gen 5 is a bad game. I just am sick of people playing revisionist history with the game acting like it is a misunderstood masterpiece when it isn't.It isnt just "evil genwunnerz who hate Trubbish and vanilla."
>>59242900>Do you have anything worthwhile to add to the discourse?We're only about 280 posts in but now would be a cool time for a gen 5 fan to finally say what's good about it.
>>59242900>GF is known for forcing their asymmetrical design philosophy.Starting with Gen 5.
>>59242909>What is this cope? Gen 5 was the outlier. Gen 6 had berry farming.Not in gen 1, not in gen 2, not in gen 5, not in gen 7, not in gen 8, not in gen 9. Overall they're only in 3, 4 and 6, and they probably only brought it back for XY because they were already working on ORAS and people expected berry farming on those. Most of the games don't have berry farming, this means it's a gimmick that got phased out, how is this hard for you to follow?>Gen 3 and 4 both had it. Gen 5 is the generation that didnt have them.HGSS at least replaced it with Pokeathalon. Musicals dont replace these.Yes, musicals replace these. They're worse but they're meant to be a replacement, you dress up your pokemon and watch them perform and have a competition.>There's nothing about them that makes them something that would be exclusive to Sinnoh.And yet GF insists on following the retarded asymmetrical design philosophy.>Is this just gonna be your argument? Dismiss everything as a gimmick?Only regional gimmicks that are born out of GF's retardedness.>They broke the game balanceHow?
Masuda ruined Pokémon>Gen 3 target was 8/9 year old, yet they made a plot so stupid it's for no one>Removes Azure Flute because it's too hard for kids, the gen prior had braile>Makes BW1 a shitty hallway because kids got lost in DP.>Makes BW1 so fucking garbage, they ruin their own story 30 seconds with grunts kicking munna and Ghetsis being a retard>For this garbage story they removed tons of content>Masuda makes XY brainlessDo you know the recent Miyamoto shit about the Galaxy movie? Masuda is the Miyamoto of Pokemon, someone who doesn't respect kids intelligence.
>>59242918I already answered. You're just dancing around the issue because you know I'm right.
>>59242820It's not that people moved on (well some did). It's moreso that they were angry that Pokémon wasn't going to be on it for a while
>>59242835These are flaws that we accept, and no one really gives a shit about most of those anyway.
>>59242816Technically every game is an RPG because you have a role in every gameLike Super Mario Bros is technically an RPG because you play the role of Mario.
>>59242959>he thinks that was a conclusive listkek
>>59242942>Not in gen 1, not in gen 2,My shock! Older enti3s not having mechanics introduced in later entries!?!? No way!!!Gen 2 introduced the precursor to berry farming with the berry trees. Berry farming is not a regional gimmick. Its a mechanical improvement on a system that existed since Gen 2.This is the wild hoops gen5fags are willing to jump through to absolve the game of criticism.Newer games are regularly criticized for cutting features, but when Gen 5 does it, it gets a pass. Even though gen 5 set the precedent.>Yes, musicals replace theseNo they don't. Contest and pokeathalon similarly act as an alternative to pokemon battling in terms of having their own stats and mechanics in ways musicals simply do not.>And yet GF insists on following the retarded asymmetrical design philosophy.Established in Gen 5.>How?Before you had to choose whoch mon you gave a TM. If you needed a move, you needed to use that particular pokemon to use it to overcome a particular challenge. Infinite TM means you can just slap OP moves on everything without a second thought. Just put EQ on everything. Its overpowered.It also means you just put whatever moves ate convenient for whatever fight you happen to be which disinsentivises actual team building.
>>59242954Zero self awareness.
>>59242861Yes, it is verifiable that you have that opinion. However that opinion is not objective. An opinion can't be objective. Your opinion can't be 'the sky is blue' however you can have an opinion on what specific shade of blue you think it is.
>>59242878>Yes just like MOST pokemon games, berry farming are a gen 3 gimmick that was phased out rather quickly.It's in Gen 4, and 6 has a weirdly unnecessary version that's overly complex
>>59242701>DependsNope. It either is an argument or it isn’t.
>>59242927>Or if you look at it like a normal human you'd see it goes nothing, apricorns, berries, honey trees, and then during bw it was nothing again."nothing again" forgot about dreamworld? If you wanted to levy a criticism tht's not disingenuous you can say they started SaaS bullshit with BW which means today you can't farm berries since dreamworld is gone.>Yeah and they're shit.Not an argument, you can dismiss anything by saying "it's shit". But I do agree they're boring [to me] and a very noticeable enshitification of contests, and Sinnoh's contests were already shallower than Hoenn's.>Play the games if you're going to cocksuck them this hard. I've played them.>It's called challenge mode, first of all you dumb faggot.Ok, it's still the "hard mode" isn't it? (or was supposed to be)>Secondly, it's easier on challenge mode because you get boosted exp against pokemon with the same lower level stats.Although you do have increased IVs so GF didn't completely messed it up, also an extra mon and an item.>It's also easier on easy mode because you're facing the worst possible level of ai on every trainer. No, the higher ai on challenge mode does not make up for all the extra levelsHey at the very least easy mode is actually easier, knowing GF they could've fucked it up completely and end up with easy being harder LoL.>Changed for all the autists that are too scared/stupid to make a choice in a video game.That's a completely different thing than what you previously said though. >In summary, kill yourself.Not an argument.
>>59242964https://youtu.be/B1Fy64xsKkE?t=14
>>59242878Infinite TMs make more sense from a worldbuilding perspective, but single use from gameplay perspective
>>59242761They’re shitty as RPGs too.
>>59242940Nah asymmetrical design has been a thing forever. Only gen 2 added stuff while maintaining everything from gen 1.Gen 3 didn't have day/night cycle or the time capsule.
>>59242948>Masuda ruined Pokémo—>>59240060
>>59242880I do know how to read. I don't see how that's considered attaching. Though it is somewhat accurate. Not Gen 1 specifically, but most games post Gen 3.
>>59242886Different kinds of RPGs. Different combat systems.
>>59242888Well when people spread misinfo, or are misding context....
>>59242782>Your first games being Gen 3?bingoit's a zoomer who doesn't realize that makes him a bort
>>59242998>Gen 3 didn't have day/night cycle Yes it did. It just wasnt visual in Gen 3. Gen 4 added the visual aspect back again.>or the time capsule.Time capsule is just trading with lore flavor to explain how you bring your pokemon from RBGY to GSC since the game took place 3 years after Gen 1.Gen 3 didnt need this. Instead you had the side quest post game in FRLG that connects the PC to Hoenn.So no, this is just more cope.
>>59242902No. You're retarded for not noticing
>>59242924Retard
>>59242656>I'm a millennial and I rated itt. September 1996'er+ who thinks he's a millennial
>>59242935Agreed. There's valid criticisms, but the game isn't nearly as bad as people would lead you to believe
>>59242939We say that all the time. But disingenuous fucks like you just ignore it.
>>59242972>Berry farming is not a regional gimmick. Its a mechanical improvement on a system that existed since Gen 2.Where's berry farming on SM? Where's berry farming on SS? Where's berry farming on SV?>Newer games are regularly criticized for cutting features, but when Gen 5 does it, it gets a pass. Even though gen 5 set the precedent.Gen 3 set the precedent. Gen 5 included berry farming in dreamworld but it being shitty SaaS bullshit it's inaccesible now and GF should be criticised for it.>No they don't. Contest and pokeathalon similarly act as an alternative to pokemon battling in terms of having their own stats and mechanics in ways musicals simply do not.Dress up gives the stat boosts how is that any different from giving mons pokeblocks>inb4 they're temporary boostsSo just like apricorn juice for pokeathlon?I agree they are boring and bland, but they're clearly intended to be the feature to replace contests.>Established in Gen 5.Where's my day/night cycle in gen 3? Where's my time capsule in gen 3? Where can I headbutt trees in gen 3? This shit is older than gen 5 anon, GF has been pulling this shit since forever.>Before you had to choose whoch mon you gave a TM. If you needed a move, you needed to use that particular pokemon to use it to overcome a particular challenge. Infinite TM means you can just slap OP moves on everything without a second thought. Just put EQ on everything. Its overpowered.As opposed to slapping surf and strength on everything? This has always been an option.>It also means you just put whatever moves ate convenient for whatever fight you happen to be which disinsentivises actual team building.Active team building by modifying moves or rotatong mons according to the tools you obtain (TMs) is disinsentivising team building?
>>59242942Didn't Gen 7 have Poképelago?
>>59242948To be honest kids are retarded
>>59239931Trying to lump gen 5 in with gen 3 is so fucking funny. The two share basically nothing in common beyond being formulaic Pokmon games. Most gen 5 fans are so fucking terrible at Pokemon games that the lack of phys/spec split alone would filter them.>ah yes I love all this exploration and smart level design and challenging varied postgame content and optional side content like contests and secret bases so I also love gen 5 which gutted literally all of that!!
>>59242978I already addressed how you can have different expectations for different RPGs despite both being RPGs. You'd have different expectations from D&D, Warhammer and vampore the masquerade campaigns despite all of them being TTRPGs.
>>59242986So it's in 3 regions out of 9... 4 if you count the dreamworld fields, but GF fucked that up by tying it to SaaS bullshit.
>>59242969Well it's certainly the only ones that I can immediately think of that are objective.What else have you got?
>>59242994Agreed. IMO the best compromise is to give you single use TRs during the campaign and then granting you access to unlimited TMs after the campaign.
>>59242972>Gen 5 does it, it gets a passIt never gets a pass. Only you say that
>>59242972>Established in Gen 5.No. In Gen 3. They cut day/night from FRLG and had no way to transfer from Gen 2 to 3, which fans figured out easily once someone actually decided to try.
>>59242989It is if you consider why so many people like a thing
>>59243015Does it do anything beyond allowing you to evolve umbreon/espeon in gen 3? It doesn't change the encounter tables like it did in gen 2. Also no headbutting trees, no crafting pokeballs from apricorns and no time capsule. RS also cut the animated sprites from crystal.>Gen 3 didnt need this. Instead you had the side quest post game in FRLG that connects the PC to Hoenn.FRLG doesn't allow me to trade my teams from RGBY or GSC to RSE. >So no, this is just more cope.Nope, I already proved there are missing features.
>>59243039That's USUM only, sadly. It's good that they didn't decide to block that behind the retarded plaza gimmick.
>>59243013My first game was Gold. Though the first game I have fond memories of is Sapphire
>>59243021Zoomers are (for some reason), those born in 98 or after. I was born in May of 97, so I'm technically a Milennial
>>59243034>we post the good things about gen 5 all the time>that's why you can't find any in this entire thread
>>59243037>Where's berry farming on SM? Where's berry farming on SS? Where's berry farming on SV?Yes, games that came after the precedent set by Gen 5. We are talking about Gen 5 anon. When Gen 5 was new, this was something it just didnt have for no good reason.Even HGSS which didnt have berry spots at least gave you the berry pots key item to farm berries.>Gen 3 set the precedent.No it didnt. >Gen 5 included berry farming in dreamworld but it being shitty SaaS bullshit it's inaccesible now and GF should be criticised for it.Dreamworld wasnt even accessible when the fames were new. I remember everyone complaining about being cockblocked by Fennel's error screen and not being able to access it.It didnt even work properly.>Dress up gives the stat boosts how is that any different from giving mons pokeblocksYou're being disingenuous. There is a dress up phase in contests in Gen 4. It isn't the same as raising your pokemons actual performance stats.>Where's my day/night cycle in gen 3?Way to out yourself as an unplayer.One of the first things you do in Gen 3 is set your clock. Gen 3 even expanded on the time system by having dungeons like shoal cave and sales at stores that are affected by time.Time capsule is just trading with lore because Gen 1 and 3 are 3 years appart.>Where can I headbutt trees in gen 3?Gen 3 had its own encounter gimmicks like rock smash encounters.You're reaching so hard comparing minor things like this to major things like what was mentioned above.>As opposed to slapping surf and strength on everything? This has always been an option.You're coping again anon. 2 moves, one of which isnt even that good is hardly comparable to applying it to every move in the game.And GF knew it was an issue which id why they limited all the good moves to post game.
>>59243044Uhh, you know a lot of Gen 5 fans love Gen 3 right?
>>59243082The cutoff is largely agreed to be 96, and that's already pushing it 93, 94 and 95babs are basically zoomers as well.
>>59243037>As opposed to slapping surf and strength on everything?For someone so concerned about genuineness this is surprising. For a gen 5 fan on the other hand?
>>59243056Despite it's flaws, Galar handled this aspect the best
>>59243047Except Pokemon's appeal is in being pokemon, not being an RPG.If Pokemon is being a bad Pokemon game, it isnt being a good RPG because as RPGs, Pokemon games have always been underbaked. Its the being Pokemon part that carries it. Your post makes no sense.
>>59243077Wait only in USUM? Did SM's Pelago not have berries?
>>59243091>smartest gen 5 fan
>>59243056Exactly.>>59243059Every excuse you have made so far has had a Gen5 centric lens to it in order to justify it.>>59243062They didnt cut it from FRLG. FrLG were "authentic remakes" that didnt have it because it wasnt in the original. And FRLG isnt Gen 3 the same way that BW are Gen 5.
>>59243098>Except Pokemon's appeal is in being pokemon, not being an RPG.Pokken and unite disprove that.
>>59243084Gen 5 had dreamworld farming. So you are demonstrably wrong on this point.>No it didnt. Yes, asymmetrical design philosophy was a thing even back then, already proven with the myriad of features from Crystal missing in RS.>I remember everyone complaining about being cockblocked by Fennel's error screen and not being able to access it.>baby's first saturated server on launch daykekerino>It isn't the same as raising your pokemons actual performance stats.The stats only help on the first phase of contests anon, at least in gen 3.>One of the first things you do in Gen 3 is set your clock.Day/Night cycle isn't the same as RTC retardbro.>Time capsule is just trading with lore because Gen 1 and 3 are 3 years appart.And yet it's missing in gen 3, as is the headbutting trees, pokeball crafting, etc.>Gen 3 had its own encounter gimmicks like rock smash encounters.Just like Gen 5 had musicals, its own nom battle gimmick, glad we agree :)>You're reaching so hard comparing minor things like this to major things like what was mentioned above.What "major" thing? please be specific. We already cleared out that contests and berries aren't it because musicals and dreamworld exist (or existed).>You're coping again anon. 2 moves, one of which isnt even that good is hardly comparable to applying it to every move in the game.Normal and water hit pretty much everything in Kanto anon. How is it disingenuous?>And GF knew it was an issue which id why they limited all the good moves to post game.So they did balance it? Didn't you say it "destroyed the balance"?
>>59243073>Does it do anything beyond allowing you to evolve umbreon/espeon in gen 3?Yes it has tons of time sensitive events like swamps, shuffling the location of certain pokemon spawns like Feebass and effecting in game events like the clearance sale at the supermart or the berry master showing up among other things.>>59243073>no crafting pokeballs from apricornsIgnoring the fact appricorn balls all sucked and didnt work, this is whatever. You should be able to just buy them from the store anyway, which Gen 3 does >Nope, I already proved there are missing featuresThe fact you have to scrape the barrel so much and twist yourself into knots this hard to try and make this argument actually makes me even more disappointed with Gen 5.
>>59243116Those literally prove my point. As does Pokemon Go.
>>59243095What can tank both strength and surf in gen 1 anon? Tauros was a top threat for a reason, normal spamming was viable back then. The refined strategy (comp-vianle) was basically hyper beaming shit and spamming blizzard.>>59243097Agreed.>>59243098How does it make no sense? I'm not saying they're the best pokemon games so yes I agree they're lacking in that regard.>>59243100Unless I'm missremembering pelago is USUM only
What would even be a valid criticism at this point? Opinions aren't allowed and every fact has some excuse.
>>59243125>kekerinoNice non-argument.>Day/Night cycle isn't the same as RTC retardbro.Way to be a pendant.>the rest is him doubling down on things that have been addressed without any actual argument.Yeah I think we are done here.
>>59242170Weird how you never shit on gen 2 for having features that were exclusive to Japanese cell phones. Or gen 3 for having eReader-exclusive content. Unova Derangement Syndrome at its finest.
>>59243132The Feebas thing was a phrase not RTC related IIRC that's why in gen 4 it's the hardest to catch.
>>59243144>How does it make no sense? I'm not saying they're the best pokemon games so yes I agree they're lacking in that regard.They cant be bad pokemon games and good RPGs because even great Pokémon games are mid RPGs.This is just that pretentious Gen5bab thing where they felt like big boys because Gen 5s story superficially made them feel like they were playing a real RPG instead of babies first RPG that is pokemon, again.
>>59243144>compfaggingReally nigger.
>>59243125>So they did balance it? Didn't you say it "destroyed the balance"?No stupid. That defeats the point of the TM system. Why have it if all the good moves aren't accessible?
>>59243083There have been hundreds of threads before this one, and there will be hundreds after, that are filled with them. I'm willing to bet that within a couple hours of this thread dying, a new one will be born.
>>59243151>it's not an argument when it destroys my narrativeGrim>N-No don't be pedanticSo gen 3 gets a free pass for cutting the changing encounter tables because it has other "encounter gimmicks" but musicals isn't a replacement for contests despite both being "non fight gimmicks"? Be consistent anon.
>>59243156Kind of makes it look like gen 5 took the shittiest parts of everything when every defense of it is>another game also did this annoying thing
>>59243159Feebas squares shuffled every day in RSE. But if yout internal battery died the locations froze.
>>59243084>Gen 3 had its own encounter gimmicks like rock smash encounters.>You're reaching so hard comparing minor things like this to major things like what was mentioned above.If Gen 3 can have it's equivalents, then so can Gen 5
>>59243166In all the posts you've made avoiding the question you could have just said one or two things about bw that are good.
>>59243164>No stupid. That defeats the point of the TM system. Why have it if all the good moves aren't accessible?To force you to use the other moves and not just go "bigger number"? It's called progression and organic introduction of mechanics/tools to the player.
>>59243092I think late 97-early 98 should be the cutoff from a cultural perspective
>>59243175Except Gen 5 didn't have an analog for most of the things it didnt have. Secret bases were expanded into the sinnoh underground in Gen 4. Gen 5 has nothing.Its a repeating theme.
>>59243171Wrong. Feebas tiles are tied to "trendy phrase" you're thinking of gen 4 where the tiles did change daily.
>>59243179>It's called progression and organic introduction of mechanics/tools to the player.More babymode tutorials from gen 5
>>59243179Then why do TMs exist in the game at all?As if TMs are "just" big number.The whole point is that they allow you to get a power boost but you have to be decisive which allows for customization and resource management.If any of ehat you said was the goal, TMs woulf have just been removed altogether.
>>59243185>Gen 5 has nothing.Join Avenue.>It's a repeating patternName them. We already established berries were in Dreamworld and contests' analog are musicals.>b-but they're worseBut they're there, I do agree these were a downgrade
>>59243189The trendy phrase changes every day, anon.
>>59243092>The cutoff is largely agreed to be 96The cutoff was '94, '95 at the latest, until older zoomers started being too embarrassed to admit that they're zoomers.
>>59243202>Join Avenue.Thats BW2. We are talking about BW1.BW2 fixes a lot of BW2s issues.>Name themNot repeating myself.
>>59243202>I do agree these were a downgradeThen why are you saying it's invalid criticism and arguing it so much?
>>59243203Really? Never noticed that. Probably because once you catch a feebas you don't have any reason to hunt it again.Thanks for the info anon, you learn something every day.
>>59243213>Not repeating myselfYou haven't provided anything beyond secret bases anon. A single instance is not a "pattern".
>>59243211>>59243211 #Im 95 and it was younger zoomers trying to deny me a seat at the zoomer table, so I just go by zillenial because millennial say im too young to be a millennial.
>>592432271 more thing than we've seen about what gen does good at least.
>>59243161>They cant be bad pokemon games and good RPGs because even great Pokémon games are mid RPGs.Learn how to read I said the best RPGs mainline has had, I never said they were the best RPGs ever or were anything above mediocre when compared to other RPGs.>This is just that pretentious Gen5bab thing where they felt like big boys because Gen 5s story superficially made them feel like they were playing a real RPG instead of babies first RPG that is pokemon, again.So you agree it's the one that feels the most like a real RPG. Glad we agree anon.
>>59243259Glad we agree it isn't a pattern so you can drop your silly narrative for your next thread where you're flamewarring :)
>>59243105For liking Gen 3?
>>59243176>schizo thinks everyone ITT is the same person
>>59243264>Learn how to readTake tout own advice. I didnt say what you accused me of saying.
>>59243215When the criticisms are incidental or the result of GF's design philosophy present in all the games past gen 2 it just feels kind of disingenuous. It's a trait most pokemon games share and singling out one over another for faults they all share is silly.
>>59243270>>59243271>>59243277>esl unova defence forcekek
>>59243279>>doubling down>They cant be bad pokemon games and good RPGs because even great Pokémon games are mid RPGs.a mid RPG can be the best RPG of Pokemon because most are abyssmal RPGs, so that's how >>59243098 makes sense. Hope this helps.
>>59243264>Learn how to readTake your own advice. I didnt say what you accused me of saying.>So you agree it's the one that feels the most like a real RPG. Glad we agree anon.No, but I know the thought process enough based on what Gen5fags were saying back when the games came out.Pokemon was always an RPG. It didnt need to prove itself as being a "real one" superficially, nor do those things make it a "good RPG".
>>59243282>none of my denonstrably false arguments worked>I'll call them esl insteadBold of you to call others ESL Kojo when we know you're an Indian living in Canada.
Unovaborts, amirite?
>>59243287>Take your own advice. I didnt say what you accused me of saying.I copied your own post word for word. I know admitting you're wrong might be daunting but it's the only way you can learn from your mistakes :)>nor do those things make it a "good RPG"What would you say makes a "good" RPG :) it's a broad term so your misunderstanding might stem from you valuing things in RPGs that other don't.
>>59243132>You should be able to just buy them from the store anyway, which Gen 3 doesYou can buy the apricorn balls in Gen 3?
>>59243144It's in SM. Just checked Serebii.
>>59243305>You can buy the apricorn balls in Gen 3?You can buy new balls that are actually good and work in Gen 3.
>>59243300yup
>>59243309You can buy [not apricorn balls]. Why do hoennbabies love to do special pleading for their games?
>>59243145Something that can be proven as bad and all attempts to disprove it fail
>>59243082if you're 1997 you're beyond shadow of a doubt a zoomer
>>59243313Thats not what special pleading. What you are doing though is the textbook example of tu quoque though.
>>59243091No, I see a bunch of borts cry about the lack of physical special split often.I know there are very early zoomers whose first game was from Gen III, and later ORAS zoomers
>>59243092>>59243211>93, 94 and 95babs are basically zoomers as wellwrong, you're severely out of touch
>>59243318>N-No gen 3 didn't stsrt cutting off features from previous entries>W-What? Those cut features? Those don't count, we have [not the cut feature]! See??!!!It's not whataboutism when you claimed later gens started a trend present in a previous one.
>>59243070It is if you consider why so many people don’t buy a thing
>>59243180it's not about culture, it's about mass psychology and *that's* relation to the cultural conditionse.g.: zoomers hating skinny jeans despite growing up seeing the young adults above them wearing them, and peer pressuring each other into all being wiggers
>>59243319I grew up eith the original anime but my first game was FireRed.I am the rare Gen3wunner.My second game was sapphire and my third was Gold. Gold became my fave game until HGSS.
>>59243280Fair enough, but what would be a valid criticism of gen 5 to you? Do you think it's literally flawless? And why are opinions not valid in the first place? I feel like you are being needlessly restrictive on what a criticism is.Liking the story, for example. Completely subjective. What's not subjective is the language it uses (simple), the general themes of the plot (cliche), or the pacing (variable depending on how you play). With all that in mind, when someone says the story is bad why focus on the subjectiveness of it instead of the objective aspects of it? I'm not saying other pokemon games don't have bad stories, but it's a thread about gen 5. I don't see how red and blue or x and y being bad makes gen 5 less bad. That's why you should be comparing these games writing to writing in general, or at least other games. You don't have an accurate frame of reference if you exclude 99% of all writing. Also, they're video games. I don't know about anyone else but I play them mainly for the gameplay. A nice story or good music is a bonus, but when it comes down to it it's the subjective gameplay parts that get me into something. You know the phrase guilty pleasures? Something you know is kind of bad but you just like anyways? You probably have one or two so surely you understand thinking something is good or bad based completely on your opinions.
>>592432361995 isn't zoomerthe only point of debate is wherein it begins in 1996: at the start, somewhere else therein, or at its end
>>59243321>>wrong, you're severely out of touch>t. 95babSorry you're basically a zoom zoom anon
>>59243324Really stretching the definition og the word "feature" when you claim Gen 3 had no time of day because FR/LG, the Gen1 remakes so married to being authentic to the originals that they blocked Golbat from evolving to crobat until after you beat the league dont have it, even though RSE have it just fine.
>>59243332Depends who you ask.
>>59243211>>59243236>>59243332>>59243333Zoomer is a state of mind and you all meet it.
>>59243329>Do you think it's literally flawless? Far from it.>What's not subjective is the language it uses (simple), the general themes of the plot (cliche), or the pacing (variable depending on how you play).Agreed, that sounds like a much more worthwhile conversation.>With all that in mind, when someone says the story is bad why focus on the subjectiveness of it instead of the objective aspects of it? I'd rather people elaborated on the objective aspects instead of day in and day out retards shitflinging at each other and saying "b-but muh berries reeeee"I mostly agree with your post anon and I'm not a Unovabortion I just want to see better discourse regarding the games instead of shitflinging and low tier bait.
>>59243350Then why didn't you answer any of what they said?
>>59243337>when you claim Gen 3 had no time of day because FR/LGWhere did I say anything resembling that? I think nobody has brought up FRLG ITT before your post anon.
>>59243176Dynamic musicFun citiesMostly good dexGood character designs.While subjective, it usually is described as the generation with the best music overall, at least according to musicians and composers.
>>59243193What's baby mode exactly?
>>59243356I did answer, maybe you should brush up on your context clues. The one I didn't address explicitly was>but what would be a valid criticism of gen 5 to you?And that's because the others touch on this. I would consider valid to criticise the objective aspects of the games. I've already accepted the technical failures that lead a novel mechanic to being worthless (challenge mode/easy mode keys). For instance, I'd say it's much more poignant to criticise a "selling point" feature when the asinine unlock requirements for these (why tf would you lock the easy mode behind completing the game in normal mode?) and the asinine way of transferring the keys (you can't start a game on challenge mode on your own cart, you need another cart to unlock the mode for you).
>>59243350>I just want to see better discourse regarding the gamesI've seen this said many times and it isn't true. You completely avoided saying any of your valid criticisms about the games, I've seen no mention of what people actually like about gen 5 in here, every defence of gen 5 is just bashing another gen. It really gets old after trying every once in a while. I threw you some easy questions to spark this discourse you apparently desire and it got nowhere.
>>59243358....>>59243062
>>59243211What determines the cutoff? I'm from 92' but my little sister is from 99'. She's very similar to me and my friends. Most of her school friends turned out very similar and most of them were born within the range of 1996-2000. My youngest sibling, my brother, was born in 03' he's as much of a zoomer as you'll get.
>>59243372>The one I didn't address explicitly was>>but what would be a valid criticism of gen 5 to you?So you didnt answer their question. Because the rest of the post wasn't questions. Its them eludating.
>>59243213Ok but you said 'Gen 5 has nothing' BW2 is Gen 5
>>59243372>difficulty doesn't workThat's a regional gimmick and therefore invalid though?
>>59243282"I have no argument so I'll accuse them of being esl"
>>59243385Tell me you are like 16 without telling me you are like 16.
>>59243377I missed that one... But that one wasn't me. But I do agree bringing up FRLG when discussing gen 3 (shorthand for RSE with the focus being the transition from Crystal => RS) is disingenuous and bad faith.
>>59243309Like the Net Ball and Dive Ball?
>>59243316What determines a zoomer?
>>59243386It's a selling point for gen 5 not a regional gimmick from other titles not present in gen 5. Does that make sense? Asymmetrical design also means that the features that ARE in are tied to a gen/region's identity and when they fail should be criticised harsher. I might have been unclear about what I meant originally.I just think it's more constructive to say [what this game did was lacking because A, B, C] rather than [title from the series had feature A and that's not present here!]
>>59243383I was agreeing with what they proposed as criticism, which answered implicitly what I think valid criticism is. And I've elaborsted further. Do you have another question?
>>59243319I've never seen 'borts' cry about that
>>59243401And the goat Timer Ball and Repeat ball.
>>59243325I have considered it. Not everyone was interested or pirated the game
>>59243319That's mostly sinnohfetuses who want to force the meme that anything prior to DPPt was literally unplayable
>>59243405Assymetrical design template for the series was established and cemented with and in Gen 5 because, as admitted by Junichi Masuda, they felt they couldn't top Gen 4, so Gen 5 feels like a side step by comparison.And thats me being charitable.Prior to Gen 5, every Gen felt like it was building on the previous.
>>59243327Is the zoomers hating skinny jeans a real thing?I was born in 2005 and most people I grew up with absolutely loved them, of course a few hundred people is nothing compared to millions
>>59243428>Prior to Gen 5, every Gen felt like it was building on the previous.I mean if you ignore everything they cut out from the previous titles, sure...>as admitted by Junichi Masuda, they felt they couldn't top Gen 4, so Gen 5 feels like a side step by comparison.Do you remember when did he make this statement?
>>59243405>It's a selling point for gen 5 not a regional gimmick from other titles not present in gen 5. Does that make sense?Yes, but there's no distinction and it's just cope. Every part of the game is a selling point to some person and that's why you see people upset that gen 5 removed ones they liked. >Asymmetrical design also means that the features that ARE in are tied to a gen/region's identity and when they fail should be criticised harsher.This is a pointless distinction when people are talking about things they do and don't like.>I just think it's more constructive to say [what this game did was lacking because A, B, C] rather than [title from the series had feature A and that's not present here!]Lets say I say gen 5 is bad because no berry farming. Why do you take it as the latter when it is just as much if not more the former complaint?I think you take everything said against gen 5 as an attack when most of the time people are just sharing their opinions, even if they aren't sharing them with the specific phrasing and structures that you'd like.
>>59243329>valid criticism of gen 5 to you? Anything negative towards Gen 5 that is objective.>Do you think it's literally flawless? No. >And why are opinions not valid in the first place? Because they're different for everyone. 'I like this' 'I hate this' etc
>>59243356Most of it was autistic screeching with no real explanation'It's bad because it just is okay'
>>59243361Good points
>>59243443>I mean if you ignore everything they cut out from the previous titles, sure...Previous games didnt cut major or staple features at all. Minor things would be absent in lieu of something else, or not implemented the same because they couldn't figure out how to do it technologically, only to be rectified in the following entry, showing a commitment to continually improving on previous entries and building on them rather than the iterative side grade structure we have now.>Do you remember when did he make this statement?I believe it was a platinum interview.
>>59243449Is everything you like objectively the best in its category?
>>59243457Thr post was very calm and articulate and did nothing of the sort.
>>59243447>Yes, but there's no distinction and it's just cope. Every part of the game is a selling point to some person and that's why you see people upset that gen 5 removed ones they liked. I can see that but it's kind of a moot point when it's a bad trait most pokemon games share due to the dumb asymmetrical philosophy.>This is a pointless distinction when people are talking about things they do and don't like.Agree to disagree I guess, those being tied to the identity of the gen/region is probabty why I give them an increased weight.>Lets say I say gen 5 is bad because no berry farming. Why do you take it as the latter when it is just as much if not more the former complaint?1) Because there's a notorious shitposter who only engages in bad faith2) because it was present in game through the dreamworld and it's an end of life/service complaint which is totally valid being mad for gating stuff behind an online service that will be discontinued in a few years.>I think you take everything said against gen 5 as an attack when most of the time people are just sharing their opinions, even if they aren't sharing them with the specific phrasing and structures that you'd like.Why do you think that? I'm happy to concede (and have conceded) several other points
>>59243459>Previous games didnt cut major or staple features at allAre we ignoring RS dexcutting most of kanto and johto?>Minor things would be absent in lieu of something else, or not implemented the same because they couldn't figure out how to do it technologically, only to be rectified in the following entry, showing a commitment to continually improving on previous entries and building on them rather than the iterative side grade structure we have now.I might just be fixated on gen 3 because their answer was "buy these remakes + spin offs (colo, Gale of Darkness and channel) if you want to play with your old favourites.But I can definitely see how with gen 5 and onwards this has progressively gotten worse.
>>59243501>Are we ignoring RS dexcutting most of kanto and johto?The mons are still in the game. You just had to get them in other games.Its not a "missing feature".>I might just be fixated on gen 3 because their answer was "buy these remakes + spin offs (colo, Gale of Darkness and channel) if you want to play with your old favourites.Given how they basically redid the code for the entire game from scratch in Gen 3, I always assumed ot was tech limitations rather than asymmetrical design that you couldn't transfer from Gen 2.
>>59243463No, that would be silly.
>>59243390I'm 24
>>59243428>admitted by Junichi Masuda, they felt they couldn't top Gen 4, so Gen 5 feels like a side step by comparison.When?
>>59243463No. I can like something while admitting it's flawed. Hypothetically I could like something that's best in a particular area, but I'm able to separate fact from opinion
>>59243469Doesn't look like it to me
>>59243374>You completely avoided saying any of your valid criticisms about the gamesDid you miss the various places where I criticise the choice of gating mechanics behind a SaaS platform that got discontinued? Or when I criticise the poor implementation of the key system for b2w2? I also dislike the transfer minigame, these minigames are silly and a huge waste of time, just allowing you to transfer boxes is a way better system IMO.>I've seen no mention of what people actually like about gen 5 in here, every defence of gen 5 is just bashing another gen.Personally I liked that it was a self contained duology adventure, with nods to the series but overall the plot was self-contained and instead of doing a third version we got a sequel which integrated your previous MC through the memory system which also allowed you to catch N's old mons. Made the world feel alive.I enjoyed the seasons system, watching the world change, encounter tables be modified and the overworld showing/hiding stuff depending on the season was neat.Enjoyed the focus on Pokemon-trainer relationships and how this bond affects both exemplified with Alder pretty much giving up after his partner pokemon diesI'm lukewarm to the Plasma plot as it brings up valid questions of what pokeballs/trainers really do only to handwave everything and do a "just kidding we're obvioisly bad please ignore what we asked at the beginning".> It really gets old after trying every once in a whileIt gets equally tiring after sincerely engaging with the resident schizo, I think he's made the board worse for everyone.
>444 repliesLet's get this to 500
>>59243469Just FYI you're replying to a shitposter
>>59243485>1) Because there's a notorious shitposter who only engages in bad faithWhile that's probably true, you are taking things said in good faith and twisting them. It's unfair of you to assume berries, fishing, whatever, are bad faith complaints. Some people really liked those things. I missed berries in gen 5 when I played. Which leads to>2) because it was present in game through the dreamworldDreamworld sucked even when it worked. Making an account was lame, needing internet was lame. It just sucked.>Why do you think that?Mostly your rigidness on whether something counts as valid and thinking that opinions don't count for anything.I don't think you like the things you do 100% purely based on objective metrics, but that's all you'll accept as valid. I notice >>59243515 >>59243526and I think one is you, my mistake if not. If you can admit that things that are objectively not that good are things you subjectively like (and I assume you like them for valid reasons) then the opposite should be a small leap. Things that are objectively good can still be subjectively disliked (a subjective belief held truthfully cannot be invalid). You can think they're stupid, you can disagree, but they are right about their negative subjective opinions the same way you are right about your positive ones.
>>59243551Who is the shitposter? The one hating on Unova, or the one defending?
>>59243555Fishing is in the game and they even added the special spots, however the rod is postgame, isn't it? Which is a bafflingly stupid choice.>Dreamworld suckedAgreed, these live service bullshit is always inferior to on-cart stuff or even peripherals>If you can admit that things that are objectively not that good are things you subjectively like (and I assume you like them for valid reasons) then the opposite should be a small leap. >You can think they're stupid, you can disagree, but they are right about their negative subjective opinions the same way you are right about your positive ones.Yeah, makes sense.
>>59243562None of them, the one who is just saying you were mad, they're probably just trying to bait you
>>59243562The guy hating
>>59243573Special spots were cool, the postgame thing is what I was referring to with the rod. And if dreamworld was on cart I probably would have really liked it. Anyways anon, you've been a pleasant change of pace compared to the usual posts around here, made me realize I could maybe word my complaints better. Good talk. I think gen 5 is overall a solid 6.5 btw. Could be worse but I had fun with it.
>>59243594>mild criticism = hateThis board lmao
>>59243609No. But when they're being a complete asshole and ignoring counterarguments, it seems like hate
So close to 500. Let's go baby
>>59243604Same, it was actually nice to encounter someone willing to elaborate and talk calmly instead of just spamming buzzwords nonstop.The fishing thing actually reminded me of my biggest disappointment when I first played gen 5, there being no underground and instead relying on the dust clouds such a downgrade although I guess it's faster overall to chase the dustclouds instead if the digging minigame.
>>59243166This youhttps://vxtwitter.com/carter6f/status/2051428982583648652?s=20
>>59243611>being a complete assholeWhere?
>>59243633What the actual fuck is this fucking bullshit
NOOOO WHY ARE WE STOPPING. WE'RE SO CLOSE TO 500. DON'T LET IT DIE OUT.
>>59243166Get raped>>59243752>>59243752
>>59239661>hot takeLmao, but yeah, BW are the last good games, and even then they aren't particularly great games.XY and SM are somewhat decent as well for what they are, but I think those two repesent a transitional era.
>>59239661They're bad
>>59243794Liar
>>59243823How so?
>>59243827No difficulty. Bad story, no content. Ugly dex. Only retards liker itb
New thread. Migrate whenever>>59243766
>>59243838No
>>59243831Did you have a stroke or something?
>>59243859Yes
>>59243838Unovafag insecurity on full display.
>No difficulty. I personally thought BW was one of the harder games. Though it's still easy.>Bad storyIt could be better>no contentBW has more than every first version before it except maybe DP. But I agree, it's not enough. Now BW2 has a lot more, arguably the most.>ugly dexHit or miss imo
>>59243897How so?
>>59243838Nooooooooo
Nigger
>>59239661Kojo false flagging
>>59243943I CHOOSE DEATH
>>59243958LORD ARGALL. YOU HAVE BEEN AVENGED
Weird thread
>>59243961YOU ARE ALL NEXT
Owo what's this?
>>59243981Rips out veins
Sagie has gone delulu
>>59243997DELELELELE WOOOOOOP
Gross
Bus
Bro's desperate to hit 500
How to beat Cleric Beast in Bloodborne?
5 little kittens
訪ねる
>>59244011Stay close, spam molotovs. It is weak to fire.
>>59244020Danke
足りる
Quick: FF7 or FF7 REMAKE
Send this to Kojo
Leaf's boyfriend
A
Un un un
Donald Trump raped multiple young girls on Little Saint James. Unova is shit. Both have evidence
>>59244030The original FF7
>>59243441>Is the zoomers hating skinny jeans a real thing?yes, they prefer loose-fitting and make fun of millennials wearing skinny jeans
>>59243403basically a psychology more heavily weighted toward frivolity and non-seriousness compared to how a millennial would approach matters
