>>10849707
Onix has a garbage special stat so you can ember him to death with Charmander, don't scratch him because he has the highest defense in the game. I also ditch my starter ASAP and spam TMs on my team instead of conserving them. The game is trivial if you use items.

>>10849707
>Moves like hyper fang and sand-attack are actually S tier because of this.

>once you finally learn type moves they usually one shot everything
So explain why you think Hyper Fang and Sand-Attack are "S tier" if you can OHKO everything.

I want all Pokemon fans to return to >>>/vp/ . Stop invading other boards.

>>10849707
>there is nothing you can catch or train that they're weak to
there's oddish. not a powerhouse but brock got 2 pokemons, you can try to use the numbers to fuck him.

>>10849746
it's full of zoomer zoophile faggots that hate the gameboy games

Isn't there an entire board dedicated to this?

>>10849738
learn how to read
>>10849734
Oh that was another thing I forgot. The TM moves are either stupidly overpowered or completely worthless. Thunderbolt, Dig, and Ice Beam are just given to you not even halfway through the game. Meanwhile they "hide" shit like Whirlwind or Rage in dungeons.
>>10849751
You cant catch anything rock is weak to until after you're already through Brock and Mt Moon. The wild pokemon are the bug lines, pidgey, spearow, rattatta, and a pikachu. You can catch a Paras in Mt Moon but it doesn't actually learn any grass moves, it just knows scratch

>>10849746
I'm not a Pokemon fan I haven't played any of these games since I was 10

>>10849707
>If you pick Charmander you're completely fucked
when will this meme die?
- you're supposed to use more than your starter
- you can literally ember onix with no trouble whatsoever due to its low special

but yes the games' design is messy but that's just turn based jrpgs in general, people just scrutinize pokemon more because the enemies aren't just enemies they double as player characters. in hindsight it's very easy to see if you switch around some numbers and pokemon/moves distribution it would make for a better designed experience(easy through romhacking) but the core essence - the heart - is in the game as is.

>>10849707
Children had no problem beating these.

>>10849795
>learn how to read
No.

>>10849865
I did use more than the starter. You have to or else you have to mega grind. The point is how badly designed the game is, not that it's a titanic challenge. Killing 25 geodudes and Onix from Brock and all the hikers when your team is a starter and 5 normal pokemon who know nothing except peck and tackle is a boring slog.

>>10849707
I've always loved the atmosphere in these games but I've never finished any of them. They always end up feeling like a chore/blur at some point and I get frustrated. The trainer battles just pile on later and I hate that.

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>>10849914
>Killing 25 geodudes and Onix from Brock and all the hikers
Bro why you gotta make shit up. You fight ONE hiker and it's at lower levels than Brock at a point where your pokemon should already be a little bit more evolved. It's a fucking nothingburger.
Moreover Geodude only represents 15% of the wild encounters in floor 1 and 25% in floor 2(as opposed to for example 80%/60% Zubats) and I don't mean to blow your mind but you can run away from wild pokemon.

MT. MOON IS NOT ROCK TUNNEL. Rock Tunnel is past the point of scrappy early game, by the time you're there's no excuse not to have a more balanced team/decently leveled pokemon.

So with rock pokemon being literally a non-issue in the very early game don't tell me having ANY starter, (Rattata/Pidgey/Spearow), Pikachu, Butterfree/Beedrill, Nidorino/Nidorina(which you can evolve even further at Mt. Moon), Jigglypuff and any Mt. Moon wild Pokémon that it's really that big an issue to deal with all these good for nothing scrub trainers and rockets.

>>10849707
>pokemania
>crazy how poorly designed they are.
It's not crazy that's just how good marketing works, it sells you crap convincing you it's gold in various ways.

>>10850051
why do you keep trying to pretend I'm complaining about the difficulty? The game is boring not hard. Your team cannot be anything but shitty low stat normal pokemon, using shitty low stat moves. Getting hit with sand attack and supersonic and sing constantly while metapods spam harden and make your tackle that does 4 damage to begin with do 1. It takes 4-5 attacks to kill anything until your rattata leans hyper fang
The game is never hard because you can walk back to the pokemon center anytime and get a full heal for free. The game is boring and badly designed

>>10849790
yes, it's called /vr/. It's a board to talk about retro games. If you don't like retro games go away.

>>10849869
I picked Charmander and basically just starter-steamrolled through the entire game.

>>10849707
well they're decent if you ask me but the newer games (as in 2002-2012 not actually the newer games) are certainly better, maybe play those op. emerald in particular is really good with the world and battle design.
>>10849746
>you should go to the board where there's discussion about dogshit nugens and genwars and maybe porn if you're lucky
no faggot

>>10850076
Why you backpedalling? You were literally lying about having to face tedious hordes of hikers with geodudes you can't hard counter with charmander&friends.

>The opening third of the game is brutal. If you pick Charmander you're completely fucked and forced to grind for hours because all the trainers besides bug catchers are nothing but rock pokemon and there is nothing you can catch or train that they're weak to.
>Killing 25 geodudes and Onix from Brock and all the hikers
LIES LIES LIES

If the game is boring is because turn based jrpgs lean on a inherently boring gameplay loop, to act like the big fault here was that the game doesn't give you appropriate means to counter what they throw at you is blatantly false.
The pokemon selection is deliberately mundane at the start - rodents, bugs, birds... with only the starter (and pikachu which is very rare and therefore a special reward) being more inherently "magical", just a little taste of what's to come. Most of what they present you is analogous to plain, common real life animals so it's easier to understand at a basic fundamental level. Chances are that the first pokemon you'll fully evolve is Butterfree, this is intentional as you can understand the concept of pokemon evolution by likening it to the real life butterfly metamorphosis every kid is familiar with.
The way the devs ease you into the world of pokemon is appropriate, the pokemon selection available at the start is appropriate, the opponents you have to deal at the start is appropriate.

>>10849707
Blue and Green in your pic are the same game. Stop pretending they aren't, as if you are a clueless zoomer or an "ackshually" attention-seeking reddifaggot. Also, very shitty opinion, unsurprising considering your other error.

>>10850149
Because you're autistically hyper fixating on a single exaggerated aspect and ignoring the overall point.
That level 16 raticate knows hyper fang and will OHKO anything except maybe your starter unless you've turbo leveled. A level 14 Jigglypuff or a level 12 Spearow are actually annoying fights at that point in the game, because you can't do anything except slam your shitty jobber pokemon into them for 8 damage. Facing a trainer with 2-3 level 12-14 pokemon is going to knock out half your team simply because the stats and moves are so shitty.
Your options are either to mega grind your starter and ignore everything else so your starter is level 20+, or you catch a bunch of shitmon that can't fight any trainers that you need to grind against a bunch of level 5 pidgeys that spam sand-attack and make the battles take forever.
Its shitty boring game design. Its not difficult, or required of the genre. I beat the game when I was literally 9 years old, I got through it playing it now, and now that I have actual pokemon with actual moves I breeze through every fight in the game, and its become overly easy and boring.

>>10850237
anon, i...
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Blue_Version_(Japanese)

>>10850262
OP's cover is that of the western blue

If you're gonna mix the western and japanese games you need to feature two different reds and two different blues.

japanese red and japanese green: og pair of games
japanese blue: third version with bug fixes and new sprites

western red and blue: translated jap red and green respectively with the japanese blue sprites

having western red, blue and yellow and throwing in japanese green makes zero sense

>>10850291
>>10850237
I know this might shatter your horrendously autistic mind, but I typed "pokemon gen 1 games" into google and used one of the first results from images

>>10850076
>why do you keep trying to pretend I'm complaining about the difficulty?
>>The opening third of the game is brutal. If you pick Charmander you're completely fucked
kek. That's very disingenuous, surely you understand, but ok.
There are many forums with this outlook, game design this, design that, amping up how bad a game is for the laughs. They'll surely agree with you (except for games they like, those have "good design"). But I think it's fine.
I tried going with a weak starter once. It's not a big deal. I remember getting past that by catching a bunch of pidgeys and using sand attack, a few had gust? You have a minor "fun challenge"! You say yourself it's not hard.
If it's a game breaker to you that you have some minor adversity (clicking the attack button 5 times) to get past a gym boss, no less, or worse, you have to catch pokemon (imagine having to do that...), it sounds like you simply don't enjoy the kind of slow-paced anti-adhd non-action-y game that pokemon is. And that's fine. Still, I think it's very subjective, like if you complained you jump or run into goombas in smb. That's an opinion.

>>10849707
I bet you actually thought you were making a groundbreaking post when you said first gen Pokémon aged poorly.

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>>10849707
>Judging games retroactively

Gaming design paradigms were different back then. Also, it the very first generation of the series, so of course everything felt more janky and experimental.

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>>10850261
>Your options are either to mega grind your starter and ignore everything else so your starter is level 20+, or you catch a bunch of shitmon that can't fight any trainers that you need to grind against a bunch of level 5 pidgeys that spam sand-attack and make the battles take forever.
hypotheticals that never happen

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE WHY IS THERE AN EARLY GAME TRAINER THAT GIVES ME PAUSE WHY CAN'T I STEAMROLL EVERYTHING IT MAKES IT SO TEDIOUS

>>10849707
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE WHY AM I ABLE TO STEAMROLL EVERYTHING AFTER THE EARLY GAME IT MAKES IT SO TEDIOUS

>>10850379
The lack of counters to Rock types in early Kanto was a genuine issue.

I recall you can get wild Mankey on that one early stretch of road towards Indigo Plateau, but I recall it's a version exclusive and I dunno if it learns a fighting type move early enough, I'd need to look it up.

In any case the Rock type hurdle was significant enough that in Fire Red / Leaf Green, they gave Charmander Metal Claw as an early level up move, for that game only too.

>be anime
>mc needs the rock gym's sprinklers going off to win
pokebros...our response??

>>10850405
ash is a shitter, many such cases

>>10850394
Not in the original games. Stop conflating the shitmakes with the original games.

In gen 1 Onix has a special stat of 30 and no rock moves(just tackle, screech and bide). In the remake Onix has a special defense stat of 45 and it does know Rock Tomb, making it far more dangerous to Charmander which is weak to it and its higher special defense makes Ember much less effective. Metal Claw was only a necessary balance change because of how the remake buffed Brock's Onix.

In gen 1, early Mankey(pre-Mt. Moon) was only available in pokemon yellow which is irrelevant because no, lack of counters to Rock types, was not an issue in the original games being that Onix had no rock moves and lower special and the only other early game rock trainer is an hiker scrub even weaker than Brock (and at a later point in the game)

Conflating games with their remakes is a dangerous thing. Don't do that, ever.

>>10850448
aside from the sevii islands (which are kinda lame from what i remember) it's basically the same game. if anything they go too far in keeping it the same as the original by not letting you get pokemon like crobat before beating the elite four.

>>10850307
Buddy if it was a game breaker I would have dropped the game after the first hour and never cared to play it again. The games are still charming and the scope of them compared to other game boy games of the time is astounding, but the early portion of the game is terrible and grindy and obviously had no thought put into it, which surprised me since the games are meant for 8 year olds and I couldn't believe I actually had the patience when I was younger to grind a Rattata to level 20 or whatever the fuck I did just to kill some trainer's Spearow.
>>10850379
>hypotheticals that never happen
I'm literally playing the game right now, and all that happened. The wild pokemon are all level 3-8 and the trainers all have 12+. You either hyper focus the starter you get and breeze through everything or you can grind out leveling up pidgeys and nidorans and rattata by spamming tackles for an hour and backtracking to pokemon centers every 3-4 fights until they hit level 15ish and learn a move that does more than 10 damage.
>reee
Yes the games are designed poorly, which is why they're annoying in the beginning and boring after that.

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>>10850456
>the previous posts highlights an example of how the potential charmander imbalance situation is completely different due to the changes in the remake
>it's basically the same game
just shut up, please

>>10850471
so how different is using ember from using metal claw? seems similar enough but idk i don't pick charmander much. also for the fossils you can just use the exp share but either way i assume they nerfed it cause it's basically a free win for blaine's gym with the dual resistance.

It's important to remember before you criticize gen 1 pokemon games for being badly designed or unfair, that tens of millions of 7 year olds bought, played and loved these games and didn't even think about the problems you're bringing up.

Not that these games are above criticism at all, just that your criticisms may may you look dumber than a 7 year old in 1998 if you aren't careful.

>>10850461
>You either hyper focus the starter you get and breeze through everything or you can grind out leveling up pidgeys and nidorans and rattata by spamming tackles for an hour and backtracking to pokemon centers every 3-4 fights until they hit level 15ish and learn a move that does more than 10 damage.
I love how you completely ignore Butterfree/Beedrill(especially Butterfree that learns Confusion as soon as it evolves), the pokemon they serve you on a silver platter by reaching their final evolution at LEVEL 10 precisely so they are relatively high stat and helpful early game and then become useless so you drop them when there's better alternatives.

>>10850486
>that tens of millions of 7 year olds bought, played and loved these games and didn't even think about the problems you're bringing up.
that is literally my point. pokemania was insane and it was such a craze that no one even cared that the games are actually pretty retarded like how it took the drowzee i caught 8 level ups to actually learn a psychic move

>>10850481
Onix's high Defense compensates for Metal Claw's type advantage, so it's not much more effective than Ember.

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>>10850481
I'm not gonna sit here pointing out all the ways in which the games differ. If you think they are basically the same game you are a fucking moron. Period

>>10850448
I did say I'd need to look it up dude, and that I could only recall some details, not all.

lmao with zero grinding I always have Nidoking by Mt. Moon and the Gyarados from the Magikarp of salesman isn't that far from evolving. Whatever your starter can't do, Nido and Butterfree can easily handle

>>10850051
maybe he had to fight that hiker 25 times?!

Legit though, bulbasaur is the rougher starter than charmander. You get ember at 9 and vine whip at 13.

>>10849707
butterfree learns absorb iirc

>>10850691
no

but it learns confusion which is a great special attack for the early game

OP are you trying to claim the game is too difficult and you got filtered by a game that people here easily beat when they were like, 8 years old?

>>10849707
So which /vp/tard is going to use this as shitpost bait?

>>10850126
Yeah, had a low 90s charizard after the elite 4. Everything else was probably 40s to 50s, I used against obvious weaknesses or surfing

>>10849941
Emulate so you can fast-forward. Really makes the games bearable.

What an embarrassing thread. Of all the dozens of issues gen 1 has, early game is not one of them

>>10849767
Not my problem. Go back.

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I just beat the game yesterday using only a LV78 Blastoise with IceBeam, Surf, BodySlam, and Earthquake.
Had other moves like Dig and Bite before getting into the Elite Four but change them to stronger ones also two HM slaves Clafairy and F'arfetch.
Game is fun and oubiously by just using one mon you will steamroll everything, only time Blastoise died was when IceBeam didn't 1KO Blue's Venusaur at the champion battle and the nigga used RazorLeaf(?) and got a crit, I had a bunch of Revive so not problem.

>Catch a nido
>???
>Gg you are a pokemon master
Holy shit that was brutal.

>>10849707
>grind for hours for Brock
You probably caught a team of 6 as soon as you could and attempt to keep them all even leveled.
You're honestly just fucking stupid. There's not much to get around it. You're training up at team of 6 in the early game. Like really stupid? Most mons in the early routes get outclassed so quickly. You spent hours training up shitmons just for their futures to be permaboxed. No one is dumber than you.
All you need for every gen 1 playthrough is a starter, 5 shitmons that you never train and nothing else. Your starter soaks 100% of all the exp and shares with no one. Game is so trivial even children understood that on release. You're just straight up fucking stupid.

>>10849707
>you pick Charmander you're completely fucked and forced to grind for hours because all the trainers besides bug catchers are nothing but rock pokemon and there is nothing you can catch or train that they're weak to
Same as in Yellow, you can take out the first gym easily with a Butterfree and it's expected that you will catch one anyway because Caterpie is literally everywhere and it's kinda the tutorial Pokemon on evolution as a concept. Nidoran (male) is good for the second gym.

>>10849707
I had no problems beating that game at age 10, seems like a skill issue desu

>>10849707
Please actually try to understand the game you're playing before spending hours arguing your dumbfuck opinions.

I'm almost convinced this is a bait thread

>>10851538
Over time I learned to appreciate singlemon runs. They're way more fun with a shitmon than something powerful like a starter though.

I disagree but at least you brought up major components of the single player instead of weird edge cases that a smogonfag discovered in 2012

>>10851538
yeah i did a Squirtle solo run, i think he was something like L82 by the end of the E4
Dig is as strong as earthquake. That plus ice beam and surf gives excellent coverage

>>10851941
smogon was how I found out Tauros is the most dominant mon in gen 1.
Catching one without legitimately is very difficult

Ignoring OP's retardness gen 1 did have many questionable design choices:
>Bug, Poison and dragon feel like filler types
>Wing attack being 35 BP means any flyer not named Fearow, Dodrio and Zapdos only has the typing as a glorified ground immunity
>Almost no pokemon learns ground, fighting or Rock moves via level up so you hardly have to worry about being weak to them during playthrough
>Not much diversity in the routes, a lot of bad pokemon are only gotten too late
>Unless you also bought a megazine, plenty of the dual typing many of the mons have may completely confuse you on how the type chart actually is.
Also, not really a bad desgin choice and more of a nitpick but i don't like how few interesting dual types gen 1 has.

>>10851619
>the game isn't poorly designed you're just supposed to never use anything except one character the entire game
ok

>>10851619
you're supposed to get lots of party members and switch them out every now and then, keeping some occasionally until your team is evenly leveled. you might be a little underleveled throughout the game that way but that makes it way more fun thinking about what moves to use than just plowing through it.

>>10852565
Sure,but that doesn’t mean you need to fill up immediately before the first gym, or even the second.
The entire game is about making decisions on what to keep and what to sacrifice. You might be fond of that early game shit you found, but is it worth it when you find another Pokémon that’s cooler and stronger 4 gyms in?
You have to find the balance between just using a single one, or trying to level everyone up . Finding ways to make weaker, lower leveled Pokémon able to fight stronger opponents is an another strategy element as well. There’s a reason level 45-50 Pokémon can get you through the E4

>>10849707
For a game that's all about combined arms usage and how there's an elaborate of rock-paper-scissors interactions depending on how certain pokemon are weak to other pokemon, the entire setup of literally every trainer you run into except your rival is

>I do FIGHTING Pokemon!
>Or WATER Pokemon!
>Or whatever other X type of Pokemon
Is immensely stupid. And yet it's universal. And if you want to have a tactics based RPG, it helps to have opposition that isn't terminally retarded at the core mechanic of the game.

>>10849707
I used charmander and killed everything with it, the second highest Pokemon I had leveled was like 12

>>10849707
I just can’t believe how dirty they did Aerodactyl! They gave him earthquake in gen 2 which is really cool honestly, but wing attack is 35 bp? Wtf? Would rock slide + drill peck Aerodactyl just be unspeakably op? Idk I think he’d just move into OU (on smogon). Fuck why is Sky Attack a two turn bullshit. Anyway those are just my thoughts. Every other cool Pokémon has enough good moves. Cant think of any other bro mon that really gets shafted like ‘Dact

>>10849707
Keep in mind when America got to Pokemania, the Gameboy was already almost a decade old.

That's like if today we got some EPIC game with our current console.......... the Wii.

>>10849746
kys

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>>10849707
just catch those two guys and you're good
maybe train them for like 10-20 minutes each and be done with it
Once you're past Misty you can just sail through the rest of the game

>>10853430
Anon, the Wii is almost 20 years old...

I remember starting a run with Squirtle/Spearow/NidoranF. Cruised through Viridian Forest and early Mt. Moon, leading with Spearow and tanking poison with Nido. This strategy didn't hold up later on, when neutral became more prevalent and opposing teams became stronger. Fearow failed to adequately sweep and was forced to take hits it couldn't afford, and Nidorina wasn't strong enough to justify her tanking role. Wartortle and later Blastoise became the anchor and stood fast where the others fell short. I remember it was level 45ish where the rest were in their 30s at best because I couldn't keep them alive. I was so disgusted with the run that I scrapped it, and I tried a solo run with Bulbasaur instead. It died to a Rocket's Zubat, and I haven't picked it back up since.

Also, I remember someone once mentioning that you could use the Water Gun TM to whatever shitmon you have on hand just to get you through Mt. Moon, Diglett's Cave and Rock Tunnel. It's generally considered a garbage move, but it can be a convenient throwaway in a pinch.

>>10853423
Someone plz respond to this post I made… What moves SHOULD have Aerodactyl been able to learn starting from Gen 1? Also, is there another mon that you like that gamefreak decided to maim for no reason?

>>10852923
>There’s a reason level 45-50 Pokémon can get you through the E4
Part of that was the stat boosts that Gym Badges gave you to help compensate for being at lower levels.

>>10849746
This. And while we're at it, no more discussion of retro rpgs in general, they need to fuck off to >>>/vrpg/. No more discussion of retro strategy games either, they can take their asses to >>>/vst/. Any retro games with multiplayer features can be discussed on >>>/vm/.

>>10853423
>drill peck
It's got nothing to drill with
>wing attack
Yeah, it's garbage in Gen 1 for how late most Pokemon learn it, just a carbon copy of Peck, but too strong in every other gen for how much PP it has
>>10855591
I dunno, Screech and Swords Dance would have been nice, but Supersonic/Bite should carry you through most matchups via stunlock, just avoid being paralyzed.

Maybe Haze, then?

>>10849746
Discussion of retro Pokemon games on /vp/ is not possible due to the overwhelming zoomer/gen alpha board culture.

>>10849869
People seriously overthink video games these days. Autists will make 90-minute video essays on why the game does not provide an optimal level curve or whatever which is ultimately irrelevant to actual gameplay due to the overall difficulty (or lack thereof), but that autism is imprinted on their audience who then regurgitates it endlessly. As has been mentioned repeatedly, you can use Ember on all of the rock types you'll encounter with Charmander and you'll pretty easily defeat them because they have a low Special stat, but the autist sees the type disadvantage and the fact that Charmander doesn't have any moves that do STAB damage against rock types by the time you get to Brock and that overrides everything else in their mind; it's "bad design" and "impossible to win".

>>10855591
Aerodactyl should have never been Rock type. This idea that if you're regenerated from a fossil(not even the case because Aerodactyl gets regenerated from a bug trapped in amber a la jurassic park) is idiotic. At least Kabuto and Omanyte have hard shells, there's nothing Rock-like about Aerodactyl.
So no it shouldn't learn rock slide or whatever else

>>10849869
Children had all the time in their hands to grind.

>>10855674
I never needed to grind, they're extremely casual games and just playing through normally was enough. People called it "babby's first RPG" for a reason.

>>10849707
>Still playing the shitty obsolete and buggy GB versions instead of the all mighty and superior GBA Fire Red and Green Leaf versions
Lmao, NGMI

>>10855813
No bugs, no soul

>I grew up in the absolute peak of pokemania but going back and playing these games again it's crazy how poorly designed they are.
Well designed. Especially given the hardware constraints and what we knew about game design theory as a human race.
>The opening third of the game is brutal. If you pick Charmander you're completely fucked and forced to grind for hours because all the trainers besides bug catchers are nothing but rock pokemon and there is nothing you can catch or train that they're weak to.
Untrue, the rock types represented by the first parts of the game have very low Special stat to compensate for this. Also, you can catch Caterpie and make it Butterfree which has Confusion to take them down without attacking into resistance. Also, Yellow version has access to Nidoran which both have been given Double Kick.
Also, you have to conceptualize that while Charmander has the worst time against Brock of the 3, it also has the fastest/easiest time leveling up out of the 3 because of the ability to easily clear Bug types in Viridian Forest. This is an example of the EXCELLENT design/balance of their team, to compensate for its type weakness by having an advantage in leveling up. Your level 16 Charmeleon that you can obtain far faster than the other two will have zero issues against the first stretch of content. Also, the Rock/Ground types deliberately weren't given type'd moves for balance reasons as well.
>pokemon types are almost worthless because they barely learn any moves. besides pikachu, which knows thundershock as a starting move, everything else you can catch just knows tackle or scratch or whatever until you grind them into the 20s
Untrue, most Pokemon will have a STAB move by their early 10s.

>>10849707
>>because type matching barely exists and everything you can catch is just normal type anyway, battles are just spamming tackle over and over. Moves like hyper fang and sand-attack are actually S tier because of this.
Moves that mess with accuracy are infamously badly designed in Pokemon in general, so I'll give you that. Type matching DOES exist, but it's ultimately a jRPG for literal adolescent children, anon. The gameplay is wonderful for a handheld title, where you wouldn't WANT battles to be long and complex on the go.
>>trainers pokemon for the first third of the game are way over leveled, and then they spend the rest of the game severely underleveled. Rockets in Mt. Moon have level 16+ pokemon. Trainers on the routes around Serge have pokemon level 18-24. And then the entire rest of the game 95% of trainers have pokemon barely at or under level 30. All of the wild pokemon are 10+ levels under trainers, so you again have to grind for an hour.
Neither of these are true, but even if it were true, grinding is a part of the game. Raising your Pokemon and training them up is literally a major part of the game, outside of the "goal" of winning the Pokemon League. People in the late 90s had nothing better to do.

>>10855813
They completely fucked up the technology vs nature theme mentioned repeatedly in the originals by making every city surrounded by dense forests

>>10855670
Damn I regret asking for your opinion… it’s so trash. Aerodactyl could pick up a 3 ton boulder and drop it on your mothers honda civic.
>>10855660
Nahh son supersonic is trash! Haze? Really man? Are you sure he can’t learn better moves? Meanwhile Rhydon can learn Surf and Blizzard and Thunder? You guys are funny.

>>10855846
And tying into Kanto in G/S/C where the region has had its forests burned down, its caves collapsed, and a volcano having laid waste to the surrounding islands.

>>10855917
there's a three year gap between those games, not very likely for those to happen in game. would've been cool if you could speak with related characters like janine and blaire though.

>>10849707
I never like space jam.

>>10849707
Youre probably right but it didn't matter to anyone because you were IN THIS WORLD being fucking POKEMON TRAINER and then 2nd gen came, boom, day light cycle. On a fucking game boy game.

This is an absolute peak.

Pokemon's main appeal was always the social and multiplayer aspect. The single player content is baby's first RPG, it was in Red/Blue and it continues today. The reason you play was always to trade and battle with other players. And although haters do not want to admit it, Pokemon has an extremely solid turn-based competitive system when you are facing another human opponent. Even in Gen 1 which I would say is objectively the worst to compete in, the game still offered a level of team building, turn based competitive multiplayer which is unique amongst every other game on the market.

>>10849707
just catch a clefairy and keep feeding it TMs
THATS the big fuckup in gen1: not keeping clef as the main mon.
yellow is practically unplayable if you try to keep pikachu on your team

What video game franchise would be the ideal Pokemon replacement for me?
look for
>franchise without fairies.
>franchise without competitive
>anti-RPG game
>game that can be played in single player
>franchise without anything collecting
>I like sports, platforms, very easy puzzles (not Tetris) and racing video games

wild to think people exist that could get filtered by this game. i literally beat it when i was 6
i know kids who couldnt even read who beat it

>>10856460
lolwut

>>10856460
>>Pokemon replacement
>anti-RPG game
>franchise without anything collecting
you're retard, plz stop posting.

>>10849707
>game is harder when you are a dumbass who doesn't play it right
We already knew that op.

>>10856474
If I want an anti-RPG franchise and where you don't have to collect anything

>>10856450
>Even in Gen 1 which I would say is objectively the worst to compete in
i mean i get it
but i resent that
its one of the only early gens you can ALWAYS get a match on in showdown. at least in terms of early gen OU its probably the LEAST tedious to play. its got a lot of quirks due to them implementing its bugginess in the battle simulator, but you figure them out pretty fast
the only real mindfuck is figuring out how the fuck counter works
gen1 randoms is also fun as fuck

sure, gens 2 and 3 are objectively better competitively, but they have a LOT more you have to learn. in gen 2 most mons feel unkillable until you know what youre doing, and by 3 youre dealing with natures, abilities, EVs etc.
by contrast, gen 1 you can kinda just pick up and play if you played them a lot as a kid and are familiar with the games

>>10856487
no offense, but you need to learn english first man
its hard to understand wtf youre even trying to say

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>>10856487
either way, my favorite not-pokemon game of the GBC era was dragon warrior monsters
idk if it really fits most of your criteria, but its definitely the most solid non-pokemon game that was trying to cash in on pokemania

>>10856510
I'm rather looking for something that is totally anti-Pokemon in everything.

I want a franchise that is literally the antithesis of what general pokemon is

>>10856510
DQM is kind of the opposite of Pokemon. Fantastic single player experience, bullshit broken multiplayer

>>10856515
I have never liked Toriyama's art

>>10850324
>Gaming design paradigms were different back then.
Even at the time I felt the encounter rate in caves was absolutely absurd compared to other JRPGs. Pokemon wasn't perfect when it came out.

>>10856514
it kinda IS anti-pokemon in its design
you dont collect mons, you breed them and then theyre gone forever
its a randomly generated dungeon crawler, rather than based around a map/story
its actually difficult
etc

>>10849707
OP, reading through your posts it seems your biggest complaint is the amount of early game grinding, but you're forgetting the most important factor in all of this: You're supposed to play it as a 10 year old with no other games who gets excited by the idea of collecting pokemon. Back then, I never felt like I had to grind before Brock or Mt. Moon because I was naturally leveling up while searching for new pokemon to fill up my team and saving up money for more pokeballs and getting excited for seeing what each pokemon evolves into.

By the time I was at Brock I faced off with him easily. I spent tons of time in Mt. Moon trying to catch Clefairy and other cave pokemon in between getting lost and turned around, so I naturally made trips back to the Pokecenter and gradually progressed through until I got to the end.

All of this was done over the course of DAYS and WEEKS because I was a little kid just happy to play a game and explore it at a leisurely pace. Obviously the game is going to feel tedious as an adult when you're not enthralled by the concept and just trying to rush through from beginning to end. The game isn't badly designed, you're just playing it wrong, or perhaps I should say with the wrong mindset. I don't mean it as an insult to you personally, it's just that you have to approach a game on its terms instead of trying to force it to meet your own.

speaking of not-pokemon
anyone ever play jade cocoon?
if you can manage to stay awake and mash through the like 3hrs of intro cutscenes, you have an absolutely batshit monster catching game
really cool game if you can put up with how longwinded it is

>>10856514
Try playing Contra.
>real-time action
>no collectibles
>one character
>linear levels instead of an explorable world
>guns instead of melee/magic
It's the opposite of Pokemon in every way.

>>10856557
i always liked the slower pacing in the beginning. once you get through rock tunnel the games design totally flips on its head and it becomes practically open-ended
so fun

>>10856525
>caves was absolutely absurd compared to other JRPGs

It was high, but you could use repels.

>>10856624
Sure, if you're a coward.

>>10856641

Why would that be? Pokemon isn't a hard game, at all.

>>10856664
Mostly because as a kid I was too dumb to buy repels and just suffered through the encounter rate.

>>10856467
imagine living in a non-english speaking country when you're 9-10 years old, having to figure out how to get past the Saffron guards. At some point some kid found out how to do it by pure trial and error and rumors spread on the school yard and that's how everyone eventually got past that point.

>>10849707
>The opening third of the game is brutal. If you pick Charmander you're completely fucked and forced to grind for hours because all the trainers besides bug catchers are nothing but rock pokemon and there is nothing you can catch or train that they're weak to.
Are you retarded? Charmander picks up ember before even Bulbasaur gets vine whip, and Brock's pokemon have such low special that Ember wrecks them. Also Butter free learns confusion which also wrecks them

You're literally worse and dumber than a child

>>10850405
You're not ash, just a simulacra

>>10855674
the opposite honestly. it took me forever to beat one of them because i only had like 60-80 minutes a day to play video games (unless it was a Saturday) after I did my homework, ate dinner and then took a bath as a kid. And I didn't want to spend most of that GRINDING of all things, so I tried to do everything at as low of a level as possible. And that's all assuming I was playing Pokemon rather than any of the other games I had as a kid.

If it wasn't for the fact that my older brother beat Stadium's round 1 and unlocked the Doduo tower for me, I probably wouldn't have beaten the gen 1 pokemon games as a kid.

>>10854946
HOLY FUCK I HAD THESE

>>10858508
>he had a mass produced plastic toy from the 90s
want a cookie?

>>10858557
Shoo, zoomer

>>10849707
It's fun. I replayed Pokemon Blue about a year ago and it was just as good as I remembered. I think that is a (you) problem.

>>10849746
No.

>>10849914
That's a big part why I stopped playing Pokemon for like 15 years. I needed to go do something else for awhile.

>>10853423
>>10855591
You are so needy.
>earthquake in gen 2 which is really cool
yeah
>Would rock slide + drill peck Aerodactyl just be unspeakably op?
It would be an improvement, but no. It's typing isn't that good and it's stats are meh. I like the fossilmons. I wish my boy Kabutops would have had rock slide + earthquake. That would probably be overpowered.
>why is Sky Attack a two turn bullshit.
I dunno. Probably so it wouldn't be too good?

>>10855650
/vrpg/ sucks balls
>haha man spam
>no mutants allowed boomers going on and on about Fallout 1 and 2
>wrpg vs jrpg slapfights every other thread
>that one autist crying about the gross sex stuff in fear and hunger. Like he is upset that the horror game has horrific things in it
That board was a mistake

>>10856715

Heh. I was just too cheap to buy them

>>10855591
Make sky attack operate like hyper beam instead of charging first turn and done

>>10849707
>The opening third of the game is brutal. If you pick Charmander you're completely fucked and forced to grind for hours because all the trainers besides bug catchers are nothing but rock pokemon and there is nothing you can catch or train that they're weak to.
NOOOOO YOU CANT JUST MAKE ME PLAY YOUR GAME TO GET BETTER AT IT!!!!!!!!

>>10859389
Anon... I have actively defended the game design of Pokemon Red/Blue in this thread, but describing grinding out levels in an RPG to overcome a purely numerical stat deficit as "getting better" at the game is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. There are ways in which you can get better at an RPG (learning mechanics, improving battle strategies, making better use of items, etc) but grinding to get your levels up is not it. In fact, grinding is the built in RPG mechanic to COMPENSATE for being BAD at the game because you can just get more raw power and fight harder instead of smarter.

>>10859402
Ah, it appears you've misrepresented my comment. But I'll explain why both my intended meaning and your misrepresentation are both correct. By "playing the game" I mean through discovering the weaknesses of the fire type at this point in the game and overcoming it by experimenting with team makeup, items, and levelling, you are in fact getting better at the game.

As for your reduction of my comment, if one were to simply grind, that is in fact getting better at the game. You are taking the necessary steps to improve your character in order to overcome a challenge. Anyhoo, have a good one!

>>10849707
Quit bitching.. Games were better back when they were a little rough around the edges. Your style of thinking is the reason the only things getting published these days are polished turds

>>10849707
>The opening third of the game is brutal. If you pick Charmander you're completely fucked and forced to grind for hours because all the trainers besides bug catchers are nothing but rock pokemon and there is nothing you can catch or train that they're weak to.
Mankey can learn low kick, can be found before brock in yellow.
Oddish and Bellsprout are found before misty.
You get the good rod by then and can catch a water type

>>10859480
The quote you selected was OP describing how grinding out levels is the only way to progress because there are no weaknesses to exploit since all the pokemon you have access to can only use Normal type moves. Your response to that is calling grinding getting better at the game; the alternate explanation you provided can't apply to the context of the quote you chose to respond to. And no, grinding is not getting better at the game, it's pausing progress to exchange time for power through mindless repetition.

>>10859487
also you can get one of the hitmonchan/lee after Erica, or buy blizzard tms in Celadon

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>>10849707
get one of these noob

>>10850494
I don't know man, I had a lot of fun playing them. Grinding to beat the first gym was all part of the experience.

>>10849707
>pick fire lizard
>use new move because it has flame graphics which means the move is faster obviously
>win because my fire lizard is super strong and I don't want stinky bugs or birds
You are not smarter than a 2nd grader.

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>>10849707

Brock was easy using a Mankey. Im two hours into my Yellow playthrough but this was a lot of sitting around or fast forwarding. I do remember struggling with Charmander back when I first played Red but it's a good lesson in understanding how types matter and that it isn't all about spamming moves. You could also use Rattata to lower defenses then swap out to something else or let it die. I think that's what I actually did when I first played Red.

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>>10860343
>Looks upright when choosing image
>posts sideways

Th-thanks.

>>10849707
I've been playing Fire Red recently, it's pretty fun but then again it fixes a lot of the oversights/bugs from the original GB versions. I do have a copy of Blue somewhere though.

>>10860346
It's something to do with how smartphones store the rotation data. IIRC, what they actually do is save every photo in the same orientation and then add EXIF data that tells the image viewer to rotate it 90 degrees if it needs to be the opposite orientation. 4chan strips EXIF data from every image, so it loses that rotation instruction in the process. You have to actually rotate the image in a photo editor and save it so that the image itself is oriented properly without EXIF tricks.

>>10849707
>forced to grind for hours
wat?

>>10860392
No, just take a screenshot of your picture l.

>>10856450
Was it though? Everyone had this game, but I knew only two kids who actually had a link cable. Incidentally, both of them also owned a game genie, so there was no "competition".
The actual appeal was catching them all and grinding your mons on a portable system. Also RPGs were now huge and the ancient GB now had its own FF7.

>>10860392
I screenshot my images to remove the meta data before posting because I don't trust 4chan. An added benefit of doing this is that the image will be scaled how I want instead of being 8000 pixels wide so it's unviewable on the average monitor when zoomed in

>>10849707
I beat this game at 7 years old using literally only charmander because I didnt understand how to catch pokemon and tbought it was a standard rpg. I think Charizard was level 70+ by the time i finished the game.

Your complaints sound like still issues OP.

>>10849734
>Onix has a garbage special stat so you can ember him to death with Charmander,
this.
it's also easier in Yellow since you can train up a Butterfree that will learn Confusion , or catch a Mankey.
overall the Gen 1 games were unbalanced but EASIER compared to latter Gens. latter Gens are more grindy with higher level Gym Trainers/Leaders, who have move sets that aren't stupid.


>>10851128
i beat Elite 4 at around Level 28 for my pokey team, in Blue edition. and i did with mostly common pokeys except for the Starter and 1 legendary bird(i think it was Articuno).

>>10860346
>>10860343
>>10860392
>>10860542
just stop phone posting like a phone addicted zoomer, anon.

I love Gen 1 because of all the glitches and the rumors. It was so exciting and I loved it when things like Glitch City and especially Missingno actually worked. This was before I browsed the internet too, learned it all from playgrounds and local public swimming pools (back when it was all white people...).
Of course, a lot of it was bullshit like the truck hiding Mew which spread across the nation as a rumor.

>>10860687
I don't phonepost, I just know some of its pitfalls.

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>>10860687
I don't phone post, I email myself the picture then screen shot it with the snip it tool in windows

>>10849746
Cancer upon you, dumb little monkey

>>10860687
>>10860703
What’s wrong with phone posting?

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>>10860689
Not just "across the nation", here in Spain it was a rumor too among all the kids. Same thing with the glitches and Missingno. It was so creepy and fascinating and mysterious :)

>10861130
You belong on your containment board. Go back.

>>10849707
>It's not very effective....
Quite the contrary. It's masterful.
Red and Blue players are by design intended to use their starter against Brock as he largely serves as the Test™ on teaching type strengths and weaknesses. Here's how it works:
>If players pick Squirtle...
Players might find difficulty with catching Pikachu, all legitimately possible defensive options are Water, Normal, Bug, Poison, Fighting and Flying types, two of which are weak. Type weakness is either avoided or taught in this manner.
>Bulbasaur players...
Will very quickly learn type weakness, and hate Poison Sting and Peck, possibly to the point of PTSD.
Both players are guaranteed to learn both weakness and strength by/in Brock's Gym, and Brock stands as the test of paying attention to it.
>Charmander players, like my own 10yo self... Will find most general encounters very easy. Ember at level 9 means all bugs fall easy. We can learn about weakness from Rival as his Squirtle has Bubble. Grabbing some exp to push levels if you lose is very easy and fast, one-shotting Metapods of any encounterable level while ignoring Harden. We learned type strength first, and face Lesson 1 in Brock's Gym when we learn Fire isn't effective against Rock, but we still find we do significantly more with that than with Scratch, so Defense vs Special is also taught to players. With that little bit of practical knowledge spoonfed to the player right out of the gate, everything beyond this point is, to casual players, solved by typing.

Your adult mind is angry about the game demonstrating and teaching its players about its systems naturally, without a tutorial, and in a way that nearly every single player from those who only use their starter, and those who experiment is near-guaranteed to interact with the mechanics. Every single possible attack type available except Confusion from Butterfree is either strong or weak against Brock's types to further underscore this point.
>It's super effective!

>>10849707
I replayed Red in 2017 and liked it still. Not sure if it would be different today though since my tastes have changed.
>Going back and playing these is like rewatching Space Jam and realizing it's actually a terrible movie
But I feel you on this one. I dropped it 1/4th of the way through last year.

>>10862027
Space Jam is at least bad in fun ways.
I would like to un-see Space Jam 2.

>>10849707
have you tried getting good?

>>10849707
I think the most perfect descriptor I've heard of Pokemon is "a social event disguised as a simple JRPG". Even today with Pokemon being made for fetuses, a lot of the experience was talking to other Pokemon players and getting your information from them

>>10849746
>post ivysaur
>thread gets deleted for no reason
>shit on SV
>thread gets deleted for "flamewar" while the other 10 threads shitting on Gen2 and 5 stay on normally
no fuck that shit board

>>10850262
Zoomie, do you think the "Blue Version" in OP's pic was the one released in Japan?

>>10850294
This also is of no surprise, considering the quality of your thread.

>>10859495
>t. chad that knows
Versus Books was peak. Didn't have this one (had Prima garbage for Gen 1), but had the one for Gold & Silver, which opened my eyes, since it was somehow even better than the official (Nintendo Power) one that I also had for those.

One thing I liked about Gen 1 that people hate is how weird the special stat is. Gen 2-4 balanced more and more, but in RBY, Special feels more like magic, literally special, simple in a way. It makes it almost like what a kid would make it be- where elemental powers are able to trump everything else.
something like being able to spam ember to defeat Onix might make the game seem broken, but it also makes it seem more fun as a kid with an imagination as to what they're playing.
. Modern games revolve around using the maximum potential of STAB and move types correlating to stats, with Gen 1 especially you just need to accept that you won't have a perfect , max potential move layout for every pokemon.
Later games would balance everything by making just about every attack have both physical and special equivalents in almost every type, but when those moves were more limited it felt more you you had to really consider which monsters you wanted to use and how to ration your TMs

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>>10864427
The way Special works makes it feel like multiple people were all working on the battle system and none of them actually communicated with each other.

>>10864503
It's almost as if they were a small team of amateur hobbyist programmers.

>>10864503
The way special works in gen 1 makes the most intuitive sense, they just needed to adjust the stats to take advantage of it. In more recent Pokemon games I can never figure out which moves are special or not, it feels completely arbitrary.

I don't think any of the combat autism matters
the game was comfy, simple as and I played red all summer when I was like 5
looking back at the design of the towns and music, I'm impressed

>>10860810
absolutely boomercore

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>>10849707
>>10849914
youre a dipshit. heres how I beat Brock with charmander in the 4th grade
>catch 5 other pkmn because thats what Oak wants you to do anyway
>put charmander at the back of the line
>each common pkmn gets off at least one sand attack before they die
>charmander comes out and onix is blind as a bat
>ember to win

its called developing a strategy and adapting to the situation. Face it, chump. You're not cut out to be a pokemon master

>>10864761
god I miss the original artstyle

>>10850056
Gold was second gen

>>10864427
Gen2 is perfectly balanced imo. the special defence stat helped balanced some of the overpowered pokeys in Gen1, and weak pokeys with weak special were still weak against the "special" elemental attacks anyway.

Dark types having mostly weak special-attack,while making all dark moves "special" might be an oversight, but it usually easier to kill Psychics with physical attacks anyway.

>>10856510
This game fucking rocks and breeding was so much better than pokemon

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>>10864780
amen to that. here have the rest of the set.

the agreed upon fan theory is that the mystery kid woulda been Viridian's gym leader, probably flying type (hence the feather shaped badge) and Erika was originally ghost type hence her floating pokeball (apparently her gown is folded in a way that implies shes ready for burial)

neat! these were the Sugimori sketches gave to the sprite artists.

bros I love gen 1 pokemon. I finally put my team from Red version onto pkmnstadium today.

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>>10850051
Pokemon fans are compulsive liars.

>>10866780
One time when I was playing Pokemon I decided to fly to Cinnabar Island and surf around, then I found this crazy glitched out pokemon called MISSINGNO and after I killed it I had like a million Master Balls.

>>10866791
>He needed a refresher on how to catch pokemon

>>10866801
He didn't say that.

>>10866809
You don't know how the glitch works, do you?

>>10866819
You ruined the old boomer RP here buddy.

>>10864841
I was so into Sabrina as a kid.