Never had played Banjo Kazooie before but I think it plays extremely well and is a pretty well balanced game difficulty wise with some great level design a good theming. Thoughts /vr/?
>>11049847It's a nice looking, polished game but not very fun to play because even the platforming feels lock and key.
>>11049869My biggest complaint is the controls feel a bit squirrely with some questionable hit detection
it starts off really fun, but it soon becomes a slog. the last two levels just aren't fun IMHO
>>11049928Click clock woods is pretty great and outside of the machine room, rusty bucket bay isn’t that horrible
>>11049979they're both abysmal experiences. you have to replay clock clock woods four times, and rusty bucket bay is a water level that hinders you more than any water level has ever water leveled.
>>11049991Click clock woods isn’t really long though even with 4 times and thematically it’s amazing, it just needs a way to shoot to bottom is all. Rusty bucket bay is tense and it feels gross and nice
One of the best "collectathon" games ever. If you like jumping around big colourful worlds with plenty of character, then the original Banjo is peak. But as a platformer its pretty dull compared to Mario 64. It all comes down to preferences of course but Mario 64 is far more of an obstacle course game whereas Banjo feels like wandering around a big amusement park.
>>11049847Balanced game difficulty? There is no difficulty. The game isn’t about difficulty. I think the rest of what you said is true though. Its an early 3d game about collecting and exploring. It basically puts you in a sandbox and lets you hop around and you’re supposed to collect items. Its world had a style and details and aesthetic. 3d was still new enough that just being there and having a cool 3d world and an excuse to explore it was a big selling point.
>>11050001>Banjo feels like wandering around a big amusement parkI mean, it literally becomes like that in Banjo Tooie.
>>11049847Near the end I got quite sick of it, I like collectathons but after a while with Banjo in particular it just becomes grating. It's not a bad game by any means I do appreciate what Rare used to be I just can't seem to get in to it.
>>11050183>>11049979>>11049928>>11049991I'm starting to think Banjo would be a lot better of a game if Click Clock Wood was contextualized to being a special bonus world you can only unlock after beating the game/if you get very near 100%. It's so goddamn long, and the entire end-game sequence can also be rather long. You shouldn't force people to slog through CCW when they just want to reach the final boss and finish the game.I feel the exact same way about Grunty Industries, another world that takes absolutely forever, but at the same time its huge scope and complexity is exactly what some people love about it, so it's not a good idea to scale it down. These worlds should be bonus worlds, something the casual player does not encounter. You have to nearly 100% the game to open them. That way, the kinds of people who wouldn't enjoy these overly-complex worlds won't be forced too, meanwhile the players who have proven themselves capable will have a big extra complex world to chew on as the ultimate challenge.
>>11050226My take was always that Tooie should have completely tooken place inside Grunty Industry, and the different components of the factory should have been interconnected with a bunch of smaller slices of worlds. In the same vein, I think Click Clock Woods would have made for an excellent hubworld the game entirely takes place in. When you go into the snow portion it could be Freezy Peaks+Click Clock, when you go into the autumn portion it could be Monster Mansion+Click Clock, ect.
>>11050226I agree this might’ve improved the game but it seems the sort of suggestion that would get you laughed out of a design room. ‘yeah, let’s take over 20% of our level work and a greater percentage of average playtime and sub it out as optional bonus content for the dedicated.’
>>11050850Yeah it would get you throw out of the board meetings. But hey, that is exactly the kind of gall you have to have if you want your good game to become a great game.Remember when tons of old Pokemon dungeons were optional and off the beaten path? Remember when Diddy Kong Racing had an entire space world that 95% of players would never find? If you want your games to be the stuff of legend, you have to go the extra mile. This kind of bonus content should not be seen as a waste of money/resources, it should be seen as necessary and expected of you if you want your games to worth talking about.Boss battles are another resource-expensive thing that you just kinda gotta put in the game anyway because they're awesome and people love them. It doesn't matter if they take a lot of effort to make, they're essential.
>>11049869>platforming feels lock and keywhat does that mean
>>11049991you barely have to go in any water in rusty bucket though
>>11050925now why would you lie like that, to feel better?
>>11050183It says a lot when they tried to shake up the formula a bit with jet force Gemini, only to end up making it a collectathon. They stopped innovating.
>>11049847Uh… How can you judge the game if you have never played it?
>>11049847I think Banjo is overrated. The concept looks good on paper: it's like Mario 64, but you don't get kicked out of levels after each star. But the end result is just a slog. Collecting everything in one go makes levels last 30 minutes and longer. Worst of all is the note system: you want to collect all 100 of them in a single visit, because they reset if you exit the level. The levels are also huge, so revisiting them is altogether not great.After this game, I realized that SM64 did things right. Clearing the level in small parts actually keeps things fresh, and allows getting stars really fast. And while 100 coin stars exist, they're all optional and you can just do it later, not forced to collect 8 stars + 100 coins all at once. Revisiting levels is fun and doesn't feel like a huge chore.And about the rest of Banjo… The moveset is like worse knockoff of SM64. The animal transformations suck. There's a million gimmicky collectible tokens for just about every ability in the game. Every stage has like 5 gimmick parts at least. Swamp level had about THE worst fucking mini game ever. During Clanker's Cavern, I just couldn't take it anymore. There's this fuck ugly boring level that lasts forever, and then there's a part where they want you to fly through rings. I just said fuck it and never turned it on since. 1 word: SLOG.
>>11050226The main problem is that the game forces you to get 94/100 jiggies. Compare this to Mario 64 which only requires 70 out of 120.
>>11051246Its not a lie. I just went back and looked at all the jiggies in that level, only 1 requires you to go underwater. Some jinjos do too but its not really much. Are you thinking of Clanker's Cavern?
>>11051439Key word had
>>11051505But you can get multiple per run though, whereas Mario 64 other than 100 coins you have to reset after every one.
>>11050226Nah. Click Clock Wood is great and appropriate challenge as the penultimate stage and a far more fair challenge than Rusty Bucket Bay which is far more unfair and tedious. The only worthwhile criticism is what >>11051505 stated. Had the game only required 80 Jiggies, and 720 notes to beat the game then there really wouldn't be much issue.
>>11050921Only one solution and extremely limited player choice and expression
>>11049847It's in my top 10 games of all time, top 5 depending on the day.
>>11052353>Limited player choice and expression>In a platformer gameThat's such a retarded criticism. You have some kind of weird anti-autism if you feel special for moving a different way to get to point B. You should take dance classes.
I got filtered by it as a kid.Tried again as a young adult, seemed too kiddy and annoying.Tried again as a full grown adult and loved it. The complex controls, intricate levels and Tex Avery style art direction all was superb.
>>11049993>it just needs a way to shoot to bottom is allIf you do a beak buster (ground pound), any fall damage is negated on the rebound until you touch the ground again. So you can ground pound at the very top of the tree, then use the rebound to fall all the way to the problem with no fall damage. Works in Tooie as well (but I don’t think it works out a drill bill in that game, just a regular beak buster). I don’t care if it’s a glitch, I discovered it when I was 5 so it’s intentional gameplay to me.
>>11052031I'm also counting the times the water is the hazard and you fall into it when you miss a platform. Fuck Rusty Bucket Bay, worst water level that ever water leveled.
Gruntilda’s Lair is still my favorite hub world
>>11049847If it came out on PS1 most people would've forgotten about it already, just like Croc. It's really nothing special. Conker's cool though.
I'm just never going to play a 3d platform with mandatory water levels. Just never. And I always felt that B and K was kinda clunky. Everything's got that sluggage sewage feel
>>11052446It's boring having a 3D platformer where there's only ever one extremely obvious solution to all problems. The extremely shallow stage design where they're mostly set up like amusement parks does it no favors either. It's funny seeing Banjo fans do all the mental gymnastics, not like the game has half as much movement.
My wife bought a boxed copy recently. Here's the display she arranged.
>>11049847 i never beat the final boss, way to much bull shit in that final fight
>>11049928rusty bucket bay is the best level what you mean?all the levels are good except the first one and the snow one
>>11052661its literally not a water level tho, there are no water levels in banjo
>>11052353that only applies to the first level, try picking the game up again and learning the fly ability.pro tip you learn how to fly in the second level
>>11052928>>11052353>>11049869I think i agree with other anon.You are just insane. You are making a lot of words instead of saying "its not as good as a movement platformer as SM64 is", which your argument boils down to. The argument chain also falls apart because BK has some good movement mechanics, it even has alternate movement mechanics that isn't 100% combat focused. To contrast:Tooie has some very awkward lock and key design, which is in its intent alleviated by a less focused blind playthrough being longer, thereby allowing the cross level gameplay to go deeper. Where the lock and key problem is that the levels are already puzzle boxes, so they don't benefit from adding another round of random dead ends until you got some new upgrades and then have to do some awkward backtracking. >>11052797This kind of shitpost reeks of the same problem people have when calling Lindgrens books nothing special, or Moby Dick to be mid. But it reeks the most of a lack of argument.
>>110549351-800-come on now
>>11054957clankers cavern is your best bet as a water level but even that one doesnt qualify. pic related is a water level, banjo kazooie doesnt have anything close to this
>>11054943It's not as good as a platformer as any of its contemporaries. It doesn't even introduce bottomless pits until the last few stages of the game. I don't know why defenders get so contorted over it, it's fine to like superficial games. Banjo looks pretty and sounds nice, but the game is often investing your time into mini games and gimmicks as opposed to actual platforming because when there's actual platforming it's either poorly done, terribly easy or the players find it too hard despite it being stuff you do in the last hours of the game.
>>11055008Nice post faggot.Now tell me about those "good as a platformer as any of its contemporaries".
>>11055070We are talking about banjo kazooie, look up any of its contemporaries if you're curious what came out in the mid-late 90s. Don't try to change the subject, you're contorting yourself again.
>>11055079nobody even talks about Castlevania 64 anymore, it's safe to say Banjo-Kazooie is one of the best.
>>11055079>>11055008Still can't name any. Nor describe the mechanics. Good job anon..
>>11055126It's popular, but CV64 went through a long period of being torn down. It is only in recent years have people warmed to it. It's still struggling because it's not very good, but the fans are trying. Banjo fans on the other hand: >>11055127>Desperately want to change the subject>struggle to change the subject so they claim it's the detractors responsibility to do so>when told they won't be changing the subject, reset and loop>fail to engage with any critique and evade it at any chance, implying the requirements are not being met.The fans are as rigid as the game. It might work on /v/ but it leads to the sort of incestuous community that generates insane boogeymen like eric.
You guys are seriously pussies if you can't focus on Click Clock Woods, it has a big scope and incorporates that into its challenge. This is what every kid wanted platforming games to lead up to. Grow a pair
Rusty Bucket is damn tough though, my first full playthrough as an adult I felt the challenge with very satisfying but it's way too harsh for kids
>>11055347my gripe with tick cock woods was i just got done with the amazingly awesome and super hype rusty bucket bay level and the reward for my efforts is tick cock woods?
>>11055353Yeah get over it, buttlord
>>11055139I just think the last two levels suck shit. Everything before them is good though.
Mad Monster Mansion > Click Clock Wood > Rusty Bucket Bay > Treasure Trove Cove > Freezeezy Peak > Gobi's Valley > Mumbo's Mountain > Bubblegloop Swamp > Clanker's Cavern
>>11054943Moby Dick IS mid.A lot of old "classic" literature is.They were hailed as good because as a species we simply hadn't seen any better, but then we failed to revise our estimation of them as time went on and new heights were reached.It's like if we still held early cave paintings as pinnacles of art. That's what literature is now.
>>11055458This line of thinking devalues and destroys this boar's entire subject matter. Besides, The Count of Monte Cristo is still the greatest novel ever written. Moby Dick has its fair share of problems, granted.
>>11055139>CV64>period of being torn downIts a fucking singleplayer game you dumbshit, from a period where release was release. Its famed for a lot of stiff very precise platforming, and having a camera system don't always compliment the level geometry as opposed to something like Banjo or SM64. Come on anonTell me about Croc Or Glover, or Bubsy. Or Space Station Silicon Valley.Its almost as if successive quality is a reason why games are played, even more so in libraries that is still in the size order where its possible to spend some realistic human scale time to actually play them all.>>11055458https://youtu.be/afWLwPZZv2w
>>11049847its the best banjovania out there
>>11054943>This kind of shitpost reeks of the same problem people have when calling Lindgrens books nothing special, or Moby Dick to be mid. It's not a shitpost, it's the truth that you can't accept because it ruins your childhood delusions.
>>11056005Are you unaware there's been an effort to recontextualize cv64 as a good game?
>>11058895>recontextualizeYou recommend SOTN + the GBA games, or you recommend the NES stuff as first line. Or pick a port of Rondo.Then in second line, you recommend the N64 games. Alongside the nextgen Spanish games.THEN you recommend the more flawed PS2 games. Its almost as if interesting or good games are more fun to play than flawed or boring games.
>>11058895CV64 has always been a good game, you dipshit. BK is also good by the way.
>>11049847this game is cursed. if you start it and dont finish it loved ones get sick and die. the downfall of humanity can be blamed on this game being released to the public who by and large played it and never beat it
>>11059124Yeah and you've been convinced of it. Stop trying to pick the wrong interpretation to start an internet argument, it's not going to work. You're acting like an idiot.
>>11059265The pot calling the kettle black.
>>11059265Harsh fighting words
