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If you played this game with save states you didn't beat the game.

Okay, let me be a bit less reductive than that. Save stating in RPGs, for example, before a difficult boss, is cheating yourself out of an interesting experience. Backtracking through a dungeon after you fail a difficult boss fight is part of that experience. It's not just time that's wasted, it's what brings the element of tension. Will you make it through? What monsters will appear this time? Will it be harder, or easier? Oh god, what if THAT monster shows up? It's what keeps you on your toes and keeps you engaged with the game itself. Otherwise, you're just pressing buttons rhythmically while pixels appear and disappear onscreen. Then you go to load a different ROM.

All I'm saying, is give it a chance. Playing without save states. Even games you may have initially felt are too cruel without them can be quite generous once you learn to work within the systems the game allows you to exploit.
>>
Yeah but there's also games that do the tension better, like Resident Evil. Final Fantasy's gameplay isn't very good and if you don't want to humour this so-called tension when there are better games (like Resident Evil) to play, then that's completely fine.
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>>11051690
I can't disagree. I think the most that can be asked of anyone is, if you really genuinely want to play a game, you should give it a chance on its own terms, without outside intervention.
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If you saved at an inn you cheated.
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>>11051719
This isn't comparable and is a disingenuous argument.
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>>11051687
Had a copy on an old Mirro. Would play it constantly.
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>>11051719
>If you played the game you cheated
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>>11051687
next time you make this argument phrase it in a non buzzword way
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>>11051687
By using savestates on early JRPGs you're denying yourself what I consider to be the main fun of these games which are the 'oh shit' moments at the end of a long dungeon or tough boss fight where things become intense because of the risk of having to do it all over again. These games had paper thin plots and minimal cinematics; grinding and exploring were the whole game and if you remove the element of risk/consequences for dying then they become pointless slogs.
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>>11051767
It's all disingenuous, who fucking cares how anyone else plays video games.
>>11051781
Impossible
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>>11051687
why are you forever retarded?
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>>11051687
Game is piss easy. Why would you need a save state?
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>>11051687
I think allowing yourself to waste time that you could use to be playing other games is cheating yourself out of an experience more than using save states so as to not have to encounter the same 4 enemies another 50 times. I get your point, but these old games didn't have much content, so they intentionally waste your time so you feel like you got your money's worth
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>>11051930
>It's all disingenuous
No it isn't.
>who fucking cares how anyone else plays video games.
I do
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>>11051687
>you didn't beat the game.
I think the Elden Ring threads gave me PTSD.
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>>11051687
You worded this in such a gay way even if I agree with the sentiment.
>>11051809
This phrases the idea much better and it's quite literally a core aspect of the games enjoyment as >>11051690 said resident evil is pretty much like that the entire game. However I think these old JRPG's had a near perfect balance of tension and relief.
>>11052296
This is a stupid argument, it's literally "I don't like playing games" just watch a movie nigga damn.
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>>11052423
but the point is who even are you who cares what you think
video games are all a waste of time and how we waste our time with them doesnt matter
beating them doesnt matter
being a 6 year old kid that doesnt even complete objectives and just drives the car around is just as.valid of a way to play and enjoy video games as is beating them in whatever way you did it

it doesnt matter
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>Otherwise, you're just pressing buttons rhythmically while pixels appear and disappear onscreen. Then you go to load a different ROM.
Unfortunately, this seems to be all the modern audience wants nowadays.
>>
I replayed this properly and with minimum grinding. Of all the features that are broken or bugged, the thief's lack of guaranteed run ability became the one I wanted most.
Sitting there on that first turn staring at 9 stun melee guys or a squad of death wizards when I still only have 1 pro ring is pain.
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>>11051687
I played it without back in the day because there weren’t any.
But now I can emulate the shit out of it I will save state constantly. I save stated the shit out of it. I will never stop save stating. It’s super fun.
Don’t like it? I don’t give a fuck. I save stated right before the end so I can’t beat the game constantly. I’m firing it that save state now and fast forwarding so I beat the game in one second,
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>>11052438
>This is a stupid argument, it's literally "I don't like playing games" just watch a movie

ok retard. because there aren't 1000 other games in my backlog. you dont live forever. I'm glad you can enjoy your repetition more than i do

also how about have a valid point before you type here
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>>11052560
based save scumming CHAD
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>>11052565
>muh backlog
Stupid meme that treats games like a checklist just play the game and enjoy it instead of rushing through them so you can tell people you "beat" them.
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>>11052565
You could get through that backlog even faster by playing the games at 10x speed.
Better yet, you could pay someone else to play the games for you. Get enough helpers and you could wrap up the whole thing in less than a month.
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>>11051687
This formula worked as a kid. As an adult, I’m not devoting weeks of my time to play a single old NES game.
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>>11052943
This.
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My rule of thumb is that if the dungeon was easy as piss and I just autoattacked through it, I'll use save states if convenient to me. I'm not an idiot, I know what a shit dungeon that's not worth replaying looks like.
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>>11052943
>>11053193
>>11053569

so ok...

save states = not playing the game

wanting to play many games =
not wanting to play any games

got it
I'll remember to never bother with this board again
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>>11051687
>If you cheated then you cheated
WOAH you're really blowing my mind here man
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>>11053613
No one on this board actually plays games and enjoys them.
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I use save states umad OP.
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>>11053774
can confirm, I play games and do not enjoy them
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>>11053613
>wanting to play many games = not wanting to play any games
This is true in the sense that you don't want to play the original games. You want to play your own derivative works you create by modifying those games. That's neither bad nor good, though, simply a matter of what you like.
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>>11051687

I have no idea why you're restricting this principle to just FF1 or RPGs. Save states are shit in 95% of cases and they should never be used as an aid to beat a game. You'll be left hollow if you do and you didn't beat the game.

>>11053774

projection
>>
>>11053613
Who said you can't play many games? I play shitloads of games. I just finish them slower because I don't cheat.
Why would you cheat to finish a game faster? When I'm enjoying a game, I don't want it to end at all, I want it to keep going on and on forever.
>>
u sound fat
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>>11051687
The early games were designed around planning your dungeon runs or getting fucked, so yeah, save states bad. I would only use states on password games and games without saves at all, at appropriate checkpoints.

Using save states willy-nilly is the same as using health and money cheats and such. I hope you're playing for the story because that's all that's left at that point.
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>>11051687
Savestates in JRPGs are fine, what isn't fine is playing them in English. Not even trying to be contrarian, you literally have not even played the game as an EOP, you've played a fanfiction rewrite of it. JRPGs are all about the story and the characters, playing them in English is like reading translated literature. You've read something that has a similar story to the original book, but you haven't read the original book. You've cheated yourself out of having a real experience by playing an adaptation
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>>11052441
It doesn't matter, and you're not a bad person for playing with save states. However, you are not beating the game normally and you are not getting the same experience because you've changed the rules of the game. It's fair to say you haven't beaten the game fairly.
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>>11056075
And you haven't even played the game, you've played the rewritten version in English. It's fine if that's what you want but don't talk to people about the original experience. EOPs should know their place, they've only ever played heavily modified versions of Japanese games
>>
It will forever be incredible that this board can't just simply play a game and instead make it a constant internal battle about whether or not they played it.
>>
>squalid baby whines there's only one right way to play with his toys
jannies why do you not do your job ffs
at this rate we're gonna cut your pay
>>
>>11056147
Because zoomers are incapable of developing any kind of emotional attachment to a game experience, the rote objective act of "playing" it is the only thing they can clutch at, like a man drowning in a storm clinging to a buoy. And because their education was delivered to them courtesy of Karl Marx, they view everything solely in the light of oppression and corruption, so instead of bonding over a shared experience with their countrymen, they transform it into a combative hierarchy of social value, whose only metrics are "beat it/didn't beat it" but whose criteria are ill-defined and constantly mutating, like any good Playskool-sized microcosm of a Stalinist society.

I am not kidding. When treat a dog kindly, it grows into a stable loyal companion. When you beat a dog, it grows into a cowering, quivering mongrel. Zoomers are people whose minds were whipped like curs since infancy, and they'll never be able to function as anything other than victims- and what's more, they'll defend their mental slavery to the death, because it's the only truth they've ever known.
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>>11052848
>needing a longplay for a zelda game
come on now
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>>11056185
None of these kids have actually read a physical book by anyone let alone Marx but that's neither here nor there (the most they've gotten is cherrypicked sections from a PDF delivered to them on twitter).
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>>11056089
>>11056185
All this to avoid the obvious fact that you didn't legitimately beat the game. This isn't a social hierarchy thing, not trying to say I'm better for not cheating. I use save states too sometimes. It's just not the same game anymore when you can erase mistakes whenever. Stop attaching so much self-worth to it.
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>>11056201
Yes.

Fuck Zelda's cryptic BS... and don't forget to fuck her ass while you're at it.
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>>11056185
Bro chill the fuck out, you're going off on some schizobabble about commies and social hierarchies.
Either you cheated or you didn't it's literally that simple. It's fine to cheat but to claim you didn't cheat is where people have issues. This goes for literally anything, if you are doing some push ups and you give yourself a few girl pushups to up your reps that's on you. But if you are trying to tell everyone you did 100 push ups when you didn't you are gonna catch some shit.
Go outside, talk to someone, chill out.
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>>11051687
I did the 4 white mage challenge in the 90s. White Mage, not White Wizard. Grinding to 99 was awful.
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>>11053197
Maybe that's your problem, anon.
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>>11056667
Why pull up a video when you can go to strategywiki and follow it linearly. Unironically improved my Resident Evil 1 experience
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>>11056185
>And because their education was delivered to them courtesy of Karl Marx, they view everything solely in the light of oppression and corruption, so instead of bonding over a shared experience with their countrymen, they transform it into a combative hierarchy of social value, whose only metrics are "beat it/didn't beat it" but whose criteria are ill-defined and constantly mutating, like any good Playskool-sized microcosm of a Stalinist society.
tl;dr: this guy savestates
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>>11056185
Two things:

1. you didn't beat the game
2. based
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>>11056185
Why does every other reply have to be a sweeping generalization or conspiracy? You're a pseud and a faggot
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>>11053774
I will have you know I played a game a few days ago before getting distracted by this board again
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>>11051687
>>11052438
>Save stating in RPGs, for example, before a difficult boss, is cheating yourself out of an interesting experience. Backtracking through a dungeon after you fail a difficult boss fight is part of that experience. It's not just time that's wasted, it's what brings the element of tension.
OP might have used one or two buzzword but there's a good point this time. It's legit. did everyone speedreaded cuz there's a buzzword in the title? that's fair but...let me try to put it another way.

If you go for save states you -still- beat the game. But you might've missed something in the process. You beat it in a different way. It's fun, in a different way. Look, ignore the "beating game" thing, it's irrelevant so put it aside.

no save states = way 1 to play game = a way to play game
save states = way 2 to play game = different way to play game

Do you have to play it in mode 1[no save stating to go through]? No. But it's interesting to consider. It could be a good idea. Like said before, going through a dungeon not knowing if you can make it can be thrilling.

Does this mean mode 2/doing whatever is never fun? I didn't say that. It might still be fun, in a different way, it's a video game anyway. You're not forbidden from doing whatever. It's your call. It might be interesting to consider the other way for some games. well, whatever. screw this fucking board. I dont care.
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>>11056185
>they don't read books
>thing I don't like is marxist and communist
You are a retard
>>
>>11058067
DWG2 PS2 is awesome. Great taste, Anon.
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How the actual fuck do you savestate in a turn-based JRPG? YOU CAN SAVE ANYWHERE AND THATS WHERE YOU START OFF WHEN YOU DIE
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>>11053197
Okay so leave the genre the fuck alone. Your pussy attitude seeps into modern game development and ruins it for the rest of us.
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>>11051687
>If you played this game with save states you didn't beat the game.

1. I did.
2. I'll discuss it on /vr/ like I beat it without them and you'll never know.
3. You can't stop me.

COPE.
SEETHE.
DILTATE.
>>
>>11051687
FF1 NES is broken and unbalanced, there's no point in putting up with its bullshit. It's clear they intended the game to be much easier but didn't know what they were doing.
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>>11055737
it's too broad to really argue at this point.

all im going to do now is give an example. Ninja Gaiden on NES

The final segment, the boss, Jaquio or what have you. You game over, you start back at the beginning of the chapter, meaning an extra 30-60 minutes to get back depending on how good you are. it's frustrating and only serves to lengthen the game.


and as for why you ACTUALLY DON'T want games to go on forever and ever, that would force you to be trapped in the same place for your entire life. Nobody wants that, that's a basic idea in psychology and societally. Nobody wants to be stuck in the place they have already been in. Everyone wants progression in some capacity. we could have a whole debate about that, if you want

last thing is, I personally don't use save states very often. Only in cases that frustrate me, and I think that's a reasonable thing to do.
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>>11056249
>None of these kids have actually read a physical book by anyone let alone Marx
Absolutely right. Their education was corrupted by it, they don't know what they've actually been taught.

>>11058095
>"marxism isn't marxist"
Weird take.
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>>11058114
If you played the game, you'd know you can't save in dungeons.
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>>11057428
I know what you mean.

I personally adore written guides like the ones on GameFAQs... I know, I know, "I didn't beat it" and maybe that's true... but you know what? I don't care much, because following a guide for a hard video game can be fun in its own way! It's like I'm following a pirate's map to the treasure, at least that's how it felt as a kid and it's a feeling that I still appreciate when playing, I recommend it.
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>>11059041
No matter how frustrating an obstacle in a game is, if you cheat your way past it, you're choosing an empty, meaningless victory.
Beating a game, getting to the credits, has no meaning on its own. It becomes meaningful because of what you had to learn and withstand and overcome.
Losing isn't wasting time, cheating is. In a good game, every loss is a lesson. It's a seed that eventually grows into a fruit of victory, rich and ripe.
When you cheat, you aren't winning the game. The cheats are winning the game, and you're watching. The controller may be in your hands, but what it's connected to ceases to be a game. It's just a conveyor belt that proceeds to the end, just an inevitable conclusion preceded by a sequence of events. I have no words to describe how many orders of magnitude more of a waste of time this is than a loss you learn from.

Now, not all games are good, and not all games are fair. Some games will make you lose for reasons outside of your control, or punish you to a cruel degree for the tiniest of mistakes.
The important question when playing a game like this is, "Am I having fun?"
If you find the stage of Ninja Gaiden you used as an example so unpleasant, tedious, and unfun that you would rather cheat or give up than replay it, I understand. If you're not having fun, you shouldn't keep playing. That game is a bad game, at least for you.
But in this situation the correct thing to do is to give up, not to cheat.
When you give up, you always have the option to try again. The only certainty in life is change, and your taste in games is no exception. In ten, twenty years, you may very well be so much better at games than you are now that Ninja Gaiden seems like the perfect level of challenge, or maybe even too easy!
Giving up leaves the door open to come back. There's nothing quite so cathartic as conquering a game that bested you before.
Cheating, granting yourself that victory before you've earned it, ruins that opportunity forever.
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>>11051687
I agree with your overall idea, there were a lot of times where I was tempted to either use codes or save states... but didn't, and in the end ended up enjoying my experience a lot more. I still think it's good to have these options though and, while my experiences when I avoided them often ended in a good way, there were times where I couldn't do it anymore and it was either cheating or quitting.

I feel that, if it comes down to it and you're not capable of pushing through, it's better to cheat than to give up on a title, I've found that infinite lives codes are more fun than save states aswell.
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>>11051687
Bro, no one fucking cares
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>>11063372
Thanks for the bump!
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>>11051687
What if I beat the game when I was a kid, but now when I play it and other FF games I use save states. Is that ok? Also rom hacks are made so hard you have to use save states.
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>>11064669
>What if I beat the game when I was a kid, but now when I play it and other FF games I use save states. Is that ok?
Then you lost your right to claim that you "beat the game" really.
>>
Many JRPGs like Dragon Quest don't let you save in dungeons because it removes the whole sense of danger.
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>>11058067
What software or UI is this from?
>>
>>11058067
>>11064910
I'm wondering the same thing... it looks sleek!
>>
>>11064680
Save states also help out because when I am deep in the game and a storm rolls through I don't have to worry about my small town losing power because of it. I lost power 3 times last week within an hour playing T-Edition grinding.
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>>11065353
>I only use save states to prevent me from losing progress because theres a storm outside
>well ok sometimes I use them so I can take a break and come back later
>well I also use them when im halfway though a dungeon because man I worked hard to get there the devs should have put a checkpoint
>ok I also use them right before a boss fight but thats fair
>ok I use them during the boss fights too, im not a fucking neet I dont have time to retry the boss if I die
>yes ok I save state to make sure I escape from every battle and I save state every 2 minutes
>and yes I use save states to scam the gambling minigames to get max cash, its my game loser. The devs didnt make the game correctly.
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>>11051809
No one cares pseud midwit
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>>11065362
Eat shit and die fag. I've played and beaten these games enough in my life where I don't care if I use save states. When I play these games, I spend my free time listening to the cool music and grinding until I am unbeatable. FFVI is over for me as soon as I get to fight the dinosaurs. I swap epsers around to get my HP and MP to all nines. I don't feel like losing progress.
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>>11051687
this game is not that hard anyway, it's more tedious than anything, with all those ambushes and your attacks missing often in early game
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enjoy wasting your lives. save states are a boon to retro gaming, and if you have a contrarian argument as to why your serotonin levels are higher because you spent three times as long finishing a game, just rope.
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>>11058114
This. I'd say a fast forward is much more useful than save states if you're going to cheat really.
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>>11067227
Are fast forwards cheating?
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>>11067114
shitty cope argument, if you think games are a waste of time then dont play them at all. besides, by playing with save states you are making the game completely braindead which removes the cognitive challenge which is the only benefit of playing videogames.



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