>Why does it feel like 64 has way more interesting stuff in its tiny levels?
because it does. Sunshine is also boring to look at and listen to because it has less aesthetic variety than the original Super Mario Bros

>>11058485
I thought "it's all tropics" was a meme, but now I get it's true. Who thought that the old tired "grass, sand, lava, ice, etc" actually was so important for variety. And especially with the whole nostalgia for retro blue skies and all, who thought that this would get repetitive so quickly.

>>11058473
Filtered

>>11058489
How so? Please explain how anything I've said it's not a valid complaint. I love 64 and I'm gonna beat Sunshine, but so far it's just plain worse and the 240 coins feel like they're gonna be VERY tedious to collect.

>>11058496
really shouldn't go for the blue coins desu but if you want to there is a tracker app for them

>>11058496
Don't collect them then

>>11058473
People shilling this was one of the things that baited me into thinking the Gamecube had an underrated and goated library, until I got one myself and found out. While the console itself is peak soul, the games library is literal trash. Probably because of the small disc format and Nintendo not allowing edgyness in the games. Wasted potential.

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>>11058473
>tropical theme yet again
>some mess of tubes and water
Legitimately my favorite thing about the game. I absolutely adore the tropical island/waterpark aesthetic, particularly how it was executed in that era, and I think they did a pretty good job distinguishing the levels from each other despite the limitations of the setting: it's hard to mistake Noki Bay for Ricco Harbor, or even Sirena Beach for Gelato Beach.
I think my main issue with the game is just that FLUDD kinda sucks to use for the most part, especially the hover nozzle, so the funnest levels end up mostly being the ones where you lose access to the main gimmick mechanic of the game.

Sunshine is great, but 64 is just better. It's really that simple.

>>11058595
Yeah, I'll have to agree that FLUDD just wasn't it. Sliding on the ground is fun, and it's a bit refreshing to have completely new mechanics, but spraying stuff and floating in the air just doesn't feel like Mario. Then again, I've seen threads here, and virtually no one was crazy about FLUDD either.
Stupidest part was running after dark Mario and spraying him. Legit worst part in 3D Mario, thank God it's short.

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>*solves all the problems with sunshine*

>>11058473
>There are no secrets!
>There are too many secrets!

which is it?

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>>11058473
The only good thing about Sunshine is its visual graphics. However, this is what suckered 99% of people into thinking this would make it the natural successor to 64. Game is absolute dogshit, from shitty camera angles to goddamn swimming like you're stuck in mud. Missions are so dumbed down and short, and Nintendo's idea of difficulty is to make getting certain Shines tedious and frustrating. Imagine Nintendo gave themselves a full 10/10 for their own bullshit like holy fuck ya'll gonna have a serious arm injury for patting yourselves on the back like that.

Get fucked, Ninten-don't.

>>11058473
>moveset is bigger
No lunge jump, fuck you

>>11059371
i strongly disagree

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Unrealeted, but smurfs vileaf game did it better.
Its like zeldoid like harry potter and hobbit. More linear levels make it better.

>>11058473
i love sunshine so much. i think yeah, if you hyperfocus on blue coins its annoying but if you are just wandering around a level, because you love it (like me), looking for something else to do, its pretty refreshing to find a random little obstacle course. i dont get the 'in order' shines either. in 64 you can only do stars consecutively too. like yeah more shit unlocks over time but its the same difference. i can't for example, open a 10 star door with only 1 star and it feels the same. in fact i prefer that new areas are locked behind new added mechanics instead of just a counter

>help us mario, we NEED the shines to survive!
>you literally buy them from a shopkeeper
What the fuck

>>11058595
FLUDD is great. It's just the hover nozzle that sucks.

>>11060907
Kek, ((()))

>>11059398
No you don't quite get it. In SM64 there was a ton of stuff going on at a given level. When you found a cool spot, there was a reward at the end.
Sunshine seemingly has similarly many cool spots… With nothing or almost nothing at the end.
Blue coins are ok-ish. But they are just tedious. I am already pissed after all those ones that vanish after a timer runs out. Like, there is one at the first level. You spray a wall and it appears… Except the wall is placed in a way that it's surrounded by 3 other walls, and camera doesn't even see there, and you need to wall jump out of there fast while you hardly even see where you're supposed to be going. Wtf. Then the next one in the hub, I spray the wall, a coin appears… God fucking knows where. Wow, what a great mechanic that is totally intuitive, and totally not annoying at all. Inb4 "git gud, zoom zoom, I beat this game when I was 6 months old with my eyes closed".
Now, like I said, I'm still gonna play Sunshine, because I like it. But this kind of design is just iffy, not what I expect from Nintendo. And certainly it just doesn't wow me like 64 did. 64 made almost every tree count. Sunshine may have a hundred trees with nothing in them.

>>11061039
This lmao

>>11060965
>It's just the hover nozzle that sucks
Which makes it all the more unfortunate that it's the one that you're stuck with for the majority of the game.

>>11058473
The focus of sunshine is not on collecting things. If you go into sunshine expecting a collectathon, yes you're going to be disappointed. The focus of Sunshine is on the missions which are imo much more interesting than 64 and actually change up the layout of the level and how characters interact with Mario. 64 did this as well but not to the same extent. Each level in sunshine tells its own story that's connected throughout all the individual episodes.


My favorite examples are Pianta Village, the haunted Hotel, and the beach level. The haunted hotel especially is amazing.

Personally I prefer sunshine to 64 just because sunshine has more memorable missions.


>>11059371
Completely misses the point of Sunshine and turns it into a standard collectathon akin to Mario Odyssey or Banjo KAZOOIE. To each their own but I find this kind of game boring and always preferred the mission structure and story telling of Sunshine and the first Mario Galaxy.

64, sunshine, galaxy 1/2 and odyssey are all so damn fun I dont understand how anyone can hate on them unless they are 100% tranny contrarians oh wait thats this entire website

for the record though its 64>galaxy>galaxy 2>sunshine>odyssey. but theyre all masterpieces that seriously MOG any and all other 3d plats

>>11062036
>Focus on missions
Thanks for a good post. This is an interesting perspective, I'll try playing it that way. Though I'm still not quite sure why they made those large detailed levels that look like there's a lot to explore, but there's actually not much to collect there to reward that exploration. Also, I'll still need 240 blue coins eventually to get 100%.

>>11062108
>for the record though its 64>galaxy>galaxy 2>sunshine>odyssey.
That's kind of what I meant though. It still is captivating despite some questionable decisions
>seriously MOG any and all other 3d plats
The bar isn't set that high though. The best ones were just "we have SM64 at home". They tried to one up it in certain aspects (bigger levels + collecting), but failed to reach it in other things, like the tight move set, level design, physics etc. BK was tedious and had too much collecting, and DK64 really dropped the ball even further. And the rest is whatever stuff like Crash and Croc that hardly gets taken seriously anymore.
I have more nostalgia for the genre than it had actual substance.

>>11062108
i agree with everything you say, except for the trans part. most people on this site are hetero and are clueless nonetheless.

>>11058473
I would like a game with Sunshine's movement, but focused entirely on linear platforming levels. A synthesis of Sunshine and Galaxy, essentially.

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>>11058473
>>holy shit those levels are huge
Ah I remember the first time I booted up Mario Sunshine. After the awkward opening with the unskippable cutscenes (which are terrible) the sense of excitement over the first stage was palpable....then I realized in this case huge meant empty and with a shit ton of pointless traversal. Huge means negative space. Huge means none of it matters and less happens and there's less to do.

What an awful game.

>>11058581
>library is literal trash
what is re4

>>11062795
What compels people to write a fictional backstory for their experience with a game like this?

>>11062809
I'm not pretending mario sunshine is good or anything dishonest.

>>11058473
>tropical theme yet again
>>11058487
>Who thought that the old tired "grass, sand, lava, ice, etc" actually was so important for variety
Unironically I hate you.

>>11062824
You are however writing a fanfiction for your own experience with the game. Pure autism at its finest.

>>11062835
I wish that was true, would have saved me a lot of time.

>>11062835
t. implying autism is a fault and not a superpower

>>11059407
>its visual graphics
as opposed to its audio graphics?

>>11058581
I guess it's a matter of taste. Personally GameCube is my favorite Nintendo console ever to this day due to how creative and interesting the games were.

As to Nintendo not allowing edge, GameCube is the most edgy era of Nintendo. It's the only one where Nintendo published and helped with M rated games aka Eternal Darkness and Metal Gear; and it's the era where Nintendo games had the most edge in general.
N64 was way more kiddy.

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>>11058473
>game takes place on a tropical island
>"wuh- why tropical theme levels?!"
not only were you filtered but you're just fucking retarded

>>11062889
No, its spiritual graphics. Anon's phrasing was specifically and deliberately ruling out the game's "soul".

I'm always surprised when anybody comments in favor of tropical themes like this one. I'm not saying nobody should like that stuff - I'm just saying it surprises me. My intuition tells me that everybody should mildly dislike that style, as I do. (It's nice that somebody likes it though.)

>>11063517
Wow, I guess next time it's gonna be called Super Mario Moonshine and it's gonna take place in Arctic, every level is gonna be an ice level and you're gonna say it's totally fine and defend it?

>>11062795

if you didnt enjoy exploring noki bay idk what to tell you anon just give up vidya

>>11062809
>>11062835
Why are you acting like that's some kind of unlikely experience with the game? I was insanely hyped for Sunshine as I played Mario 64 to fucking death previously. Christmas 2002, get a shiny new Gamecube, Mario Sunshine, and Smash Bros Melee.

Pop in Mario Sunshine excited as fuck after reading tons and tons of reviews that had told me it was everything about 64 but even better; was instantly offput by the opening cutscenes and how FLUDD worked. As I played more and more of it I realized that it held little of the magic of 64. It took me quite a while to get around to even beating the game because it was only more and more disappointing as I continued playing and realized the stages got WORSE.

Thank god Melee was such a great game that I got far more enjoyment and time out of. I would have been crushed otherwise.

I gave Sunshine another chance with the 3D All-Stars release and... it still fucking blows. I do like Ricco Harbor at least. That's about it.

>>11063681
>No you can't explore a theme in depth you need to have generic ice grass lava world!
Sunshine does not have a variety problem. You explore a windmill village, a tropical beach, a haunted hotel, an amusement park, a mushroom forest village, a seashell ruin, and a volcano. Each is pretty different though still keeps the general theme of the tropical atmosphere.

>>11062036
>Caring about story telling in a Mario game of all things
I hope all Galaxyfags perish

just admit it was too hard anon. its ok to get filtered by the hard 3d mario game.

>>11065195
64 is harder unless you are talking about 100% completions

>>11065202
>64 is harder unless you play all of the game

>>11065195
Sunshine isn't so much hard as it is poorly designed.

Most of the things people regard as "hard" about the game are just obtuse or poorly implemented. The lava boat is incredibly simple but you have to know how the FLUDD propulsion actually works, which is a concept nothing else in the game would have prepared you for up to that point. The watermelon shine is similar, it's flat out tedium of slowly pushing it along and not having the physics fuck you over. Once again there isn't anything else in the game like it, so you start from square one instead of there being some kind of gradual learning curve.

The normal levels of the game aren't difficult whatsoever, all of the parts everyone remembers as frustrating are poorly designed isolated instances. Even the Sand Bird is the only time you have to deal with the extreme jank of the floor shifting underneath you and flipping over.

>>11065391
points taken. i'd say its definitely harder than newer mario games. you gotta remember sunshine released in an era in which nintendo tried to appeal to the hardcore gamer. they werent sure yet in which direction to go until they eventually settled on the family friendly bing bing wahoo we all know today.

just think about the pipe on the little isle with the water lily and the red coins. that is insanely hard by design, it has nothing to do with jank or bugs - they wanted it to be that difficult. there are some other examples. sunshine is not dark souls but more tricky than super mario odyssey etc. nonetheless.

>>11058487
>I thought "it's all tropics" was a meme
How? It takes place on a tropical island, how did you think there’d be lava and ice areas?

>>11058473
>I get why it was considered a disappointment
idk where you even got the initial assumption desu
it was one of the must haves on the system. everyone liked it a lot. we were fucking stoked to have a new 3D mario

>>11058473
the camera gets stuck on stuff
the controls are abysmal
he has zero acceleration
jumping is bad
the hotel level starts you outside on the beach each time

I could go on and on about this game, it's the worst one I've ever played.

>>11065874
the acceleration is the biggest thing as well as the lack of emphasis on karate mario sounds with air kicks and twisty foot dive attacks for parkour stylization murdered mario's identity. He's just a janitor in this game, and even if youre slip n sliding around fast, none of it is as cool as mario 64 mario and what he represents. The coolest thing sunshine mario does is having devastating butt stomps i guess, and that's how he beats bowser

>>11063517
You understand that the restrictive setting is a limitation they themselves created, right? Nobody forced them to set everything on a tropical island.
Even then, SM64 took place in a castle. How many levels are themed around casltes?

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>>11065647
>how did you think there’d be lava
What is a volcano?

>>11065668
nobody gave a fuck about Mario sunshine lol everybody hated that gay water cannon shit

>>11065391
i was 50/50 on if or if not I agreed until I saw you bitch about the sand bird. the sand birds design is fine, literally get good. Getting filtered by a baby game is crazy.

>>11058496
Anon. The trick to getting the blue coins is to leave them alone until you're ready to pick them up all at once. Unless you do it all at once or write down where you got them, you'll forget and then it's hard, but if you go through each level with a fine tooth comb and count them up until you've gotten all of them in each area, then it's easy. I know this because I did it on my second play through and the blue coins were super easy to get.

>>11066568
I listed it last as a footnote in the post for a reason, I don't find it that particularly tricky and it's largely about patience which you learn quick from a single death from how the shifting works. But I do get why it throws people off in the way that it does because again, nothing else in the game is like it and there's extremely little warning the first time for the bird flat out flipping on its side which is a literal rug pull.

Similarly the Chuckster stage is a one off that I didn't struggle with and thus didn't mention at all, but that too is another weird situation where something you have little preparation for suddenly asks that you understand how all of the throwing trajectories will work right off the bat. The game has so many of these various instances that it's not terribly surprising that any one person wouldn't struggle with all of them, but would get stuck on one or two for a bit, and then each individual's experience winds up creating a bigger picture of different people complaining about various random parts of the game and giving it its current reputation.

>>11063517
I've literally never seen anyone defend World with this argument despite that game having more environmental variety than Sunshine.

What fucking game did you play? You start the game and you have to sit through a bunch of exposition from a retarded little squirt gun? Contrasted to 64 where the reigns are just given to you immediately.

As a Gamecube owner I was disgusted that my buddies got Mario 64, and I got some bullshit environmental message Mario about cleaning the world. I don't want to be a fucking janny in some virtual world.

>>11066308
I didn't notice this before, but yes. It came off as preachy and gay about cleaning up. Feels more like someone at Nintendo had a kid that was messy, and they thought this game should teach a lesson, not be fun first.

>>11058473
>>moveset is bigger
Impressive, devolves into lies from the 3rd word of the post!

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>TIPTOP KEK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WPteMFkI2k

>>11058549
>Don't like it, don't buy it!
You're not equipped for discussion on game design.

>>11068074
You control the buttons you press

>>11067935
Did you read the rest of the post you dumb fuck? It was just first impression. In fact, control is just weird in this game
>no crouching
>I repeat, NO FUCKING CROUCHING WHAT WERE THEY THINKING IT WAS KEY IN 64
>no punch, only dumb grab that hardly grabs anything (see squid boss)
>X button solely for switching modes on FLUDD because of course you can't just press a button to hover
>shit assed "sPiN tHe AnAlOg!11" jump instead of crouch jump (which of course is needed to get to high places)
>awkwardly slow water movement in a game about water
It still is fine, mostly because SM64 was so good. But I still wonder who the fuck made all these changes

>>11068565
are you sure you can't crouch? thought you could because you can still backflip though it is a little weirder
also you can still sidehop at least

>>11068583
Well, you know what the crouch button is? No? Because there isn't one.
You can at least backflip apparently (pressing back+A). But spin jump is better anyway, and where's the lunge jump?

>>11068565
>It was just first impression
Your first impression was fucking stupid, because mine was that there are noticeably fewer movement options. And nowhere in the rest of your post did you correct this mistake.

>>11068643
In the end I think they took away some options and added others. You lose punch and lunge jump, but get far longer slide (also spray slide), spin jump, and also improved wall jump. Plus obviously there's all the FLUDD stuff, like hover etc.. So I think there's more moves, but they're not really better.

>>11058473
Agreed, Sunshine is the worst 3D Mario (so far)
Even Croc for the Saturn is more fun than this unfinshed garbage