Metal Gear Solid on the PS1 is the absolute peak of the series, the best 3D metal gear game, the best story, the best filmography, and has exactly the right amount of cheese for flavor without coming across as parody of Kill BillMGS2 is fine, but the series is already clearly becoming stupid from this game onward and it lacks any of the grit, grunge, and artistry of MGS1.MGS3 is very good as a game with lots of emergent gameplay, but again fails to be a serious interesting thriller/drama with a compelling story.MGS4 and on are not worth even making a hypothetical case for.MGS1 was good on accident. The limitations of the hardware and the significantly less powerful Kojima still being reined in and preventing him from making snake backflip off of missiles are integral pieces to the puzzle of "What makes MGS1 so good?" Just play twin snakes if you don't believe me.Discuss.
>>11059993>Kojima still being reined inDo you have even a single fact to back that up?
>>11059993>and preventing him from making snake backflip off of missilesWhile it's definitely fair to think the games became too outlandish in general snake/bigboss never jumped the shark in this way. aside from bigboss shooting that chunk of debris to save ocelot there feats are pretty grounded, kojima was obsessed with irl tacticool choreography after all. they were basically the badass normal trope through the entire run.
>>11060020snake literally backflips off of a missile in twin snakes please stop gaslighting people
>>11059993I prefer outrageous over the top snake, but will always love og mgs1. I'm not that into twin snakes, but I enjoyed snake being the badass he is supposed to be. You know the clone of big boss, the killer of big boss and venom snake, the guy who took down outer heaven single handedly and fought grey fox hand to hand in a mine field. The guy who is killing enhanced genome soldiers by himself. Yeah that solid snake, the guy who will butt fuck you up the dick while smoking a cigarette .
>>11060034Kojima didn't have anything to do with that.
>>11060034yeah I know but that was the twin snakes. >why do the same exact thing again? go crazy and do something newI'll forgive this line of thinking in a non canon one off.
Let's get one thing out of the way. All that crazy action choreography was not the work of Kojima. It was all done by an actual filmmaker and movie director by the name of Ryuhei Kitamura.
>>11060067didn't kojima tell him to do something nuts?
>>11060069Probably. You don't get Ryuhei Kitamura if you don't want something nuts.
>>11059993It's by far the best one and maybe the only truly good one, yeahKojima himself said Miyamoto was his biggest inspiration because he taught him that good controls and playability are the most important things for a game. Now let's look at MGS2 onwards:>have to fucking hold both R1 and R2 to lean and aim at the same time like a velociraptor>retarded touch sensitivity>intricacies for the sake of it>all those awful mechanics and systems in 3>3 getting rid of the traditional radar and Pacman-style gameplayThe controls alone are so inexcusably stupid that I can no longer even take 2 and 3 seriously. It's just amateurish
>>11059993>MGS1 was good on accident.many if not most games are desu. limitations were a godsend
>>11060071>The controls alone are so inexcusably stupid that I can no longer even take 2 and 3 seriously. It's just amateurishI get 3 but I think you're reaching on 2. as far as 6th gen standards go the first person aiming was pretty good, the third person shooting system was crap but you rarely needed to use it.
>>11059993>mogs your nippon slop
>>11060078>. as far as 6th gen standards go the first person aiming was pretty goodWanting the player to press both shoulder buttons at the same time is never pretty good, it's as amateurish as it possibly gets. 99% of licensed games, Party Babyz and newgrounds indie shit knows better so Kojima not knowing better just rubs me the wrong way and I like to have SOME principles with my vidya
>>11060071The controls in 2 are exquisite, midwit.
MGS1 is kino because it was just enough story, character, and narrative to carry the excellent gameplay, MGS2 and beyond went full retard on the "wannabe movie director" aspects
>>11060118No they are not, for reasons stated>midwitLiterally what are you when you can't make an argument to debunk a midwit? The average braindead subhuman these games are made for I would say
imo the games just got too randomly gay(random dick grabbing, gay shoeins) and antifun in favor of realism
MGS4 and PW are absolute kino and anyone who disagrees is gay.
>>11060142You complained about having to use multiple buttons with pressure sensitivity to accomplish technical shots, well, that's because you're stupid. The controls are delicate, like the mission at hand. You need to be precise with your actions to get the real flow of mgs2 and to a lesser extent mgs3. I have gotten pretty good at this and it feels really good pulling together complex arrangements and shots like it's choreographed. It doesn't always work out, but when it does it's fucking nice. now go back to mashing buttons like a neanderthal.
>>11060147>>11060142
>>11059993>MGS3 is very good as a game with lots of emergent gameplayHa! Good one!
>>11060147You can play through both 2 and 3 without a pressure sensitive controller. Even got all dog tags. It's a gimmick.
>>11060179
>>11060185It's fun and getting good at it is fun, negative Nancy ass faggot.
>>11060185You literally can't though? It's impossible to hold your gun up and put it down if you don't have a pressure sensitive controller
>>11060206Tap R2 real quick, n00b
>>11059993how could mgs1 have been a parody of a movie that came out 5 years later in the future.
>>11060102Skill issue on your end. The rest of us have more dexterity than a fucking penguin.The controls were great.
>>11060048He told the director he outsourced it to do the new cutscenes in his own style, and later regretted it.
I play through MGS1 again once every two years but I've only played the others through to completion once.MGS1 is an undeniably masterpiece and I could honestly confidently put it in my top 10 video games of all time. It's almost silly to image that magic could ever genuinely be recaptured. It's a one-off.
>>110600712s controls are better than 1s in every way. Every bossfight in 1 feels like a spastic struggle with controls>nyooo you have to use more buttons in 2Yes and it lets you do more things, so that's good
One thing I like about MGS1 is the voice acting and story. Hayter is restrained and not doing the self-parody he does in later games, and the story is actually very engaging with the bad end hitting pretty hard.In terms of gameplay? It is ok. Could honestly have been on SNES, though.
>>11060659I played all of them at least 5 times and I'd say 1 got old a lot faster for me than 2. The gameplay depth of MGS1 lies in the VR mode, and that's a mode detached from the story that most people won't even play once, much less bother to replay2's enemy AI is so much more intricate, it's more replayable just because of that. The VR mode is not as good though3 doesn't even have a VR mode so I don't understand why it's always memed as the gameplay heavy one. Just proves that people didn't play VR modes in 1-2
>>11061156>2's enemy AI is so much more intricate, it's more replayable just because of that.Never understood this, just tranq them and move on. They don't adapt or change, levels are too small so there aren't that many roaming around and when they spot you and you hide in a locker or something they do those drawn out search sequences like sure it was cool in 1999 but gets old fast. Anyway, the only good AI in MGS2 is the Emotion Engine subconsciously brainwashing you to become a liberal video essayist
>>11059993>MGS4 and on are not worth even making a hypothetical case for.I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be. I think the gameplay up to that point was very good. I didn't mind the excessive cutscenes because it was really supposed to be the last game in the series. And maybe they filled it way too much to the brim with too much fan service. Other than that, I think it was pretty solid for the fourth entry.
>>11061185>sure it was cool in 1999
>>11060067Based Versus.
>Normal conversation with minimal, but powerful gestureshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0J2kxDmbhy8>Cringeworthy autistic japanese kabuki arm-waving mocaphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to3Y2tcvMPE
>>11059993https://youtu.be/GPIkxULCELM?feature=shared&t=74^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS
>>11061185>Never understood this, just tranq them and move on. They don't adapt or change,They do adapt and change. They hear footsteps they investigate. Snow footprints? They investigate. They can't find you? They scope out the entire level until they go back to their positions. For a home console PSX game in 1999 this was fucking impressive. I already know a lot of faggots will compare it to Thief being the superior version. Obviously Thief has a lot of leg room to expand on gameplay with a fucking PC back then. But for a home console game? Absolutely mind blowing. I know this has been said a billion times here, but you just had to be there.
>>11062078I dare you to form your own opinion instead of posting a YouTube link doing all the work for you.
>>11059993I don't know, I think 3 had best balance between simplicity and Kojima retardation. 2 went full retard but at least it made it interesting near the end. And V has the best gameplay, without question.
>>11062062>anime direction>dorama direction
Best one is VIt was the most fun to play one. It had a half-nude lady who flaunted her stuff and didn't open her mouth either. And there was a dog. And a horse. Wow, holy shit what a game.>ButHe had a robot arm. And you could shoot the arm
>>11063070Most of all, it was a lot of fun!>MUH STORYwas ruined in MGS4 by Kojima literally wrapping everything up to try to escape from the IP at the time. It was all about gameplay starting with PW and I was excited about getting a sequel to that type of game back in the day. Shame about the missions turning into "run to a outpost, grab a file, and run away for 15 seconds to complete mission" cycle the game found itself in due to the rushed development of the game, but I had a great time with it.And we ended up getting a decent story anyways (as told through the tapes. I won't argue about the presentation, but there is good stuff in the tapes that are were not required to listen to).
>>11063070>>11063175V is basically PW without a cool story to compliment the cool gameplay, but it made up for it with the dog, horse, robot and Pequod micspam close air support.
>>11060067>this isn't even my final form
>>11063175>>MUH STORY>was ruined in MGS4Scratch that chief, that was the game before.3 went with style over substance and opened the floodgates for the retardation that came after.At least with MGS2 you can have a conversation about it's interesting ideas that bloomed from the Y2K era.
>>11063203>PW>cool storygrim
>>11059993More like Metal Smear Soft.
>>11064396Yeah it had a fun story, less cheesy than wat came before. This franchise isn't fucking high art besides the GW speech, you know.
>>11064493Ahh, you're one of those>MGS starts with 3kind of people
>>11060147>an artificial barrier to getting what you want out of the characteryah mah man it's bullshit gimmick because otherwise the game would be just too easybad game design just as artificially padded gameplay time
>>11060206lol yes you can
>>11059993>MGS1 was good on accident. The limitations of the hardware and the significantly less powerful Kojima...Just like the Star Wars movies.I'm also willing to argue that the same goes for Square and the jump to CD storage that just resulted in bloated games that just look and play worse over their 2D predecessors
I thought of all boards /vr/ would understand the unique appeal of MGS1 and thus its inherent superiority over the entire rest of the seriesit is, simply put, kino
>>11060000>Its all in the numbers.>nnumber wanMgs1 is loved by everyone. Proof is in everybodys love for the game. Its creator couldn't put his cyberbrain into austic mode.>number tooMgs2 has mixed love. Some hate it, some love the memes. But its no where as good as mgs1.
>>11064685It is and that is a fact.Two important factors inherent to MGS 1's superiority are the fact that Kojima hadn't yet experienced the ego-boost from 1's success and, of course, Blaustein's liberal take on his script.
>>11064693>But its no where as good as mgs1.eh, boss fights were better in 2 imo
>>11059993Mgs3 was a menu simulator. In hindsight, it was really bad idea to build all the new mechanics behind billion menus
>>11064754Mgs4 somewhat fixed the annoying camo swapping with the auto camo suit. No longer needing to go between hundred menus to change appropriate camo for the setting
>>11059993>the series is already clearly becoming stupid from this game onwardit already started in mgs1 disc 2, you can't blame mgs2 for this
>>11064524Bro you play a naked gayboy in 2.
The backtracking alone makes this the worst one.
>>11060142> I had to press two buttons at once!>the struggleNot only are you retarded, but you're also a faggot
>>11059993>Metal Gear Solid on the PS1 is the absolute peak of the seriesIt is. The localization came a long way to make it as good as it was. That said it was a really short and easy game.
mgs1 is one of those games where no difficulty gets it right. normal is way too generous with health items and you're generally able to nuke boss health meters too quickly without really needing to engage with their patterns. hard gets closer to an ideal challenge(some of the bosses like ninja become too spongey) but in return it makes the stealth extremely tedious with no radar, requiring you constantly shift into first person to keep track of guards.
>>11065408>it makes the stealth extremely tedious with no radarthe devs included the wall-leaning angles to make no radar more bearable for stealthfags, and included radar to let game reviewers finish the gameit's a clever 3d gimmick for stealth either way, then mgs2 made it a toggle and mgs3s made fixed camera a togglethe frustration of mgs1 hard is a bug or a feature
>>11065408>>11065458MGS1 is not a hardcore high-execution game for challenge oriented gamers. Never was and never will be.It is a cinematic story and character oriented narrative experience
>>11060069Yes, Kitamura wanted to emulate the feel of the original game and Kojima basically told him “do your thing“.
I can never sneak up on any sentries in MGS3, they always turn around at the last moment
The peak was MGS2
>>11065560>MGS1 is not a hardcore high-execution gameI agree but I think the bosses should at least force you to figure out their trick, basic learning progression. I'm not expecting dante must die SSS or anything.
>>110599931 is my favand i love the little jingle that plays at the konami introhttps://youtu.be/NImW-Rs8eK8?feature=shared
>>11061156a fellow vr chadnice
>>11061156>VR modewho cares
>>11059993I didnt get it. I dropped it
>>11059993>MGS1 was good on accident. The limitations of the hardware and the significantly less powerful Kojima still being reined in and preventing him from making snake backflip off of missilesIt didn't prevent him from having an Eskimo shaman with a mini-gun use his magic forehead tattoo to launch a ghost bird at Snake which makes a crow land at Snake's shoulder before striking up a conservation about the World Eskimo-Indian Olympics.
>>11059993>Metal Gear Solid on the PS1 is the absolute peak of the series, the best 3D metal gear game
>>11059993Yeah but I'm still happy 2/3 were made, they are interesting in their own ways and very good games
wheres my niggas
>>11066651>I thought Christmas only comes once a year.
>>11066663so even the MSX games left some kanji on the HUD? I thought that quirk was MGS1 only
MGS1 is 2D
>>11066673>MGS1 is 2DAgreed, I bet it is possible to make a good 16bit port of MSG1
>>11066665>japanese game has japanese textat least it makes sense since it's a hud
>>11066676https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpG9XIfFkE0Leaving japanese on the HUD in a localization is not standard, especially for a westaboo game.
>>11059993I'll have to disagree. I love MGS1 but the peak of the series is the Tanker mission from 2. Just that first mission and the additional ones we got from Substance. I also greatly enjoyed the VR missions from 2.
>>11061156>The gameplay depth of MGS1 lies in the VR modeYou meant to write MGS2, I assume from the rest of your post. In which case I agree. The VR missions of MGS2 are amazeballs. So many different modes and fun scenarios to really make use of all the new mechanics. I had so much fun with that. It's a shame most people won't even touch it.
>>11064189Nah, MGS3 tries to communicate a message, just not one you can relate to because you didn't grow up in the 60s and 70s. Kojima sacrifices a bit of the established narrative to try and get a point across to (less so to the players and more to the developers) and does so without enganging in his typical mannerisms, stuffing down the audience's throat his ideas to bluntly explain them what the game is about. It's pretty subtle and I wonder how many many fans realize that it might be the most personal and raw MGS title Kojima ever did, just trying to convey the things that influenced him and got him to that point and passing that on to a younger generation of videogame developers.
>>11067591>you had to've been there man i saw the cold war on the tv and everything
>>11067591Everyone knows MGS3s message is "russians are faggots in every sense of the word"
>>11066665>>11066676>>11066681Japanese text on 90s games was a stylistic choice. Japan was seen as a place from the future back then, given all its technological advancements.
>>11059993>it lacks any of the grit, grunge, and artistry of MGS1I don't know what you're talking about. MGS2 talks about heavy shit while being THE art game.
MGS1 is the only one of the games worth playing in English. The rest are abysmal, MGS2 was massacred, MGS3 at least had decent voice direction, everything after this was dogshit on every level.
>>11059993You are right, no I won’t elaborate
>>11068941>MGS3 at least had decent voice directionhttps://youtu.be/DHSH8O4QhlE?t=1394 Sounds like AI text to speech shit come on>everything after this was dogshit on every level.Oh, right, you're retarded
>>11069090Sorry, by voice direction I meant voice matching. While MGS2 fucked up every single voice actor choice (legitimately, I don't think there's a single new voice that was even vaguely close), MGS3's dub at least sticks reasonably close to the original game. I'm not saying the actors delivered good performances or were directed well.
