>Nintendo makes Wind Waker>Unique art direction based on classic Japanese animation>Cel shading that used the technology of the time just right>Graphics aged like fine wine>Western players flip their shit because it looks like a gay baby game and Link is not a bald marine like they expected>In response Nintendo makes Twilight Princess>Washed out shitty textures like in every PS2 game>Brown & bloom all the way bro (or more like gray and bloom)>Tacky black + neon aesthetic of the emo era >Graphics look like a caricature of 2000s today and somehow make Oblivion look colorful
>>11097690Nah. It has a nice dreamy atmosphere.
>>11097690If you weren't underage you'd know where the industry was at the time desperate to be taken as "a serious artform" and how even industry people from the US (whose games wete starting to overtake the sales of Japanese game with stuff like Halo and God of War) harshly critisized Wind Waker as "Nintendo sabotaging the industry so it can't be taken seriously ".It was a shit time.
>>11097690>One copy of Twilight Princess, please.
>>11097690Cmon bro there's a thread already about that exact same topic.Though yeah, I like toon Zelda and "serious" Zelda both but there's something about this game specifically that's just unappealing to me. It may be the fault of the "state of the art" graphical tendencies around that time though, and not specifically a fault of the game. Still, even the concept art and promo illustrations looks kinda awkward, like Nintendo didn't have quite the right artists on staff to attempt this kind of aesthetic.>>11097709Ironically, self-conscious obsession with being taken "seriously" acted on with simple enforced appearances is the most literally adolescent way to go about it. Serious art isn't art that looks serious by virtue of themes or visuals; it's based on assertiveness and confidence in your identity and vision.
I liked the wind waker look from the start. and ive still never even played TP because it looks like generic tripe. westoids have ZERO fucking taste, nothing new
>>11097690they both look like shit
>>11097740bait or otherwise you're a fucking retard and completely misunderstand art direction if you think cel-shading doesn't more often than not look good.
>>11097703More colorful parts are good. Less colorful parts look exactly like shit PS2 games, and I mean the especially bleak ones like Drakengard.>>11097709How does this contradict anything I've said? That's what I meant, at the time this was popular. WW went against the grain and paid the price for it. I don't think anyone cared about "art" though, all those shitty shooters and GTA clones weren't artistic at all. I just think that after the decades of Saturday morning cartoon platformers, having mature games was new and hype, and for a while it felt just like the only direction for the evolution for games. Kind of like when 3D came, and 2D games simply started feeling archaic to many.Much like with 3D though, the public opinion had changed over time: people realized old 3D looked like shit and 2D games gained a new wave of appreciation. Same with "mature" games—they simply stopped being new or hype after the endless shooters, and the whole gritty grey Linkin Park era aesthetic has slowly died out. Vice versa, people realized there wasn't anything wrong with cartoony games, that they were at least colorful and looked way less depressing than grey & brown WW2 shooters. Still, even Shiggy didn't like the look of WW at first, so for the time it felt like Nintendo did exactly the opposite of what everyone wanted.
>>11097690might be a hot take now but I actually like the twilight princess art style. It reminds me a bit of what SMT Nocturne was going for. It's an acquired taste just like windwaker's cartoony art style or the newer game's Studio Ghibli inspired direction.
Anons who hate the way TP looks and brown and bloom in general, I have two questions for you>Do you think that Shadow of the Colossus is brown and bloom done right?>Do you think that Skyward Sword looks better than TP?
>>11097774anon I don't think people who hate TP art direction like Shadow of the Colossus. In fact if they did have an opinion on it they will probably tell you it also looks like shit.
>>11097774yes, I actually agree with the first point. SOTC actually IS a dreary, moody game so the art style fits it. SS just looks like absolute shit, no defense there.
>>11097771>adquired tasteNot really in my own experience. I guess I'm shallow but I tend to keep my first impressions; I liked the Toon look at first sight, and I disliked this one likewise. That very digital "painterly" style of the official illustrations really bugs me to this day; it's very amateurish and smudgy, like something from a novice imitating western-style concept art from around that time.I'm ok with the non retro Zelda visual styles in general, though they are all basically a toned down approach to the TP stuff. The fake painterly illustrations of the Switch games are still a bit lame, but the actual in-game stuff looks nice save for a couple really stupid character designs.
>>11097774SotC is a mediocre style done very well. They kind of got it and rolled with it. It at least fits the game/series (unlike TP), though it makes you feel like you're colorblind and have severe depression.I haven't played Skyward Sword, but it looks kind of what you'd expect from Zelda from that time, it's decent. It has a good amount of color which I like. Though maybe it becomes slightly generic, there's little unique here unlike the extremes of WW.
>>11097690Wind Waker looks like shit, can we stop pretending otherwise?. Twilight Princess is more artistically appealing by default.
>>11097782>SOTC actually IS a dreary, moody game so the art style fits itI mean, so is TP
>>11097789>mediocre style done very wellNot sure if that makes sense as phrased, but I do think I get what you're trying to say (nta). Still, I'd call it a perfectly appropriate visual style for the concept and setting, just not something everybody would actually like. There's problems with that game but had nothing to do with the visuals imo.I think what worked in SotC when didn't in TP is the proper amount of detail in both the volumes and surfacing (TP looks like it tries to cram colossi-level detail on human-sized characters), and less shiny/plasticky shading in general regardless of the arguably excess in post-effects.
>>11097801This guy ARTS
>>11097709Do you have a source for industry people in the US saying those things?
>>11097806It has its moments, but for the most part TP is a goofy Zelda game with a dreary artstyle
>>11097690Your greentext ignores the fact Wind Waker even flopped in Japan, the country that should have eaten it up, and Nintendo's response was just to cross their arms and go "well people just don't want to play games anymore"
The biggest problem with WW is that the sailing is kind of a pain in the ass and the game just dumps a massive filler quest on you at the endgame.
>>11097858Based street-hardened mature gamer
>>11097861Anon, serious question: are you retarded? Zelda WW sold about as much as Sunshine and MKDD in Japan. GC as a whole was a flop there. WW sold more than Majora's Mask.
>>11097690>nintendo releases ocarina of time/majora's mask>people find crazy how edgy and dark they are>spaceworld 2000 rolls around with the zelda gc tech demo>people can't fucking wait to see how nintendo will surpass their darkness and weirdness with this brand new hardware and tech>2001 rolls around>pic relatedYou would have to literally eat glue to even consider buying a gamecube at that point. I'd go as far as to say that THIS trailer and game made the console flop. Nintendo literally couldn't understand what people wanted from the series or from a next gen console.
>>11097897It's funny that they immediately went back to "OK OK, here's your dark Ocarina follow up, fuck off"
>>11097897>>nintendo releases ocarina of time/majora's mask>>people find crazy how edgy and dark they areThe only people who found those games dark and edgy are people who never played a non-Nintendo game before
>>11097897Yeah, I remember how dark and edgy Super Mario 64 was too. Imagine my shock when they announced Mario Sunshine, a bing bang wahoo game about a gay plumber. Nintendo realized they fucked up, so they went back to the dark and edgy aesthetic in Mario Galaxy. This fit the dark and edgy vibes of Wii in general
>>11097690The graphics are muddled, and loot even worse on a hdtv then a crt, but at least Link looks nice.WW aged well, but man I just really fucking hate TL's design. Like AM levels of hate, its so fucking lame looking. Like, christ that fucking lazy ass belt
>>11097947>I remember how dark and edgy Super Mario 64 was
>>11097747cel shading always look like crap. its a lame gimmick for lazy developers to make their games look 'interesting'. its the game equivalent of autotune in music
A game like twilight princess is definitely an "only looks good on crt" type of thing
>>11097897>getting clowned on for being a retard on /vr/never thought I'd see the day
>>11097690>>11097703I'm sure it's cherry-picking but those are two disgustingly ugly screenshots holy shit.
>>11097690Twilight Princess STILL looks better than Wind Waker, which wasn't good looking for the time. It didn't magically become better looking with time.
>>11097690>>Cel shading that used the technology of the time just rightLets be realthe dungeons looked terrible in wind waker, the art style is terribly under utilized.
>>11098073Nintendo was never good at aesthetics or storytelling
>>11097690Wind Waker fags are insufferable.You all have a chip on your shoulders because you were too young to experience OoT when it was new, and had to grow up with Wind Waker faggotry that everybody else hated.These are the exact same gamers who are upset they missed peak Pokemania and had to grow up with Ruby/Sapphire, and had to suffer Sunshine instead of Super Mario 64, so when they find out that their nostalgic vidya is shit they have to tear down everything else.No generation of gamers before or after are as bad as you. You missed out on Ocarina of Time. You missed out on Pokemania. You missed out on the wonder that was brand-new Super Mario 64. You missed out on pre-9/11 good times. So now you have to pretend your shit was good.
>>11098105>Nintendo was never good at aestheticsHave to disagree with you on that one
>>11097747>cel-shading doesn't more often than not look good.To me the problem with WW isn't the cel-shading, but that the designs themselves look wonky and unappealing. I always thought the eyes in particular looked crudely done, not quite anime or american cartoon, more like an amateur symbol drawing. Characters have bobble heads on noodles and don't feel like properly balanced and constructed cartoons. I get that it's inspired by an older animated movie,but that alone won't make it appealing and even that movie has nicer proportionsThe art for Majora's Mask goes for a heavily shaded look , and I think people would've been all for a cel-shaded game with this art direction.
>>11098069I disagree. Wind Waker still looks good due to the art style. TP looks aged.
>>11098163Same. I thought this was common knowledge. WW looks awesome.
>>11098169ww only looks good in cherry picked screenshots of the first or second island.
>>11098202I disagree. Dragon Roost Island and Forest Haven are pretty nice looking.
>>11098224Also Tower of the Gods.
>>11097897I guess Nintendo considered their fans grew up from games after the console generation ends, so it's time to make games for another generation of kids again. Japs were too naive
>>11097690All the people that complain about Twilight Princess' art style are exactly the same type of person that complained about Wind Waker's art style but in reverse. You're both the same annoying faggots with opposite but still very limited tastes.Both games look great, excellent even. Zelda has only had the same art direction across multiple games with direct sequels. For the vast majority of the series they have tried new things. Twilight Princess is just as stylised as Wind Waker, but in a totally different way.
>>11097690>muh coloursI bet you guys hate black and white films huh? Why do so many people equate the saturation/vibrancy of the palette with how appealing an art style is? I've got an idea for you, turn your monitor's/TV's saturation all the way up, it will look good to you then probably and games you like even more will look even better. Because grey = bad right? So not grey = good. Problem solved.
>>11098242>Why do so many people equate the saturation/vibrancy of the palette with how appealing an art style is?Bright, vibrant colors naturally attract attention. Our eyes are drawn to colors that stand out against their surroundings. In art, this can translate to immediate visual appeal because vibrant colors create a strong initial impression.Colors have psychological associations. Bright colors like reds, oranges, and yellows can evoke feelings of energy, excitement, and happiness. Artists often use vibrant palettes to convey positive emotions or to create a lively atmosphere in their work, which can be immediately appealing to viewers. I bet you like Snyder movies.
>>11098250Artists also use muted palettes too. Honestly you have the mentality of a child. Bright and vibrant colours can be great, but there are many tones and feelings that cannot be done with them. It all depends on context. So to make a blanket statement that one is good and one is bad is something an actual moron would say in an attempt to join in with a conversation that is far above their intelligence and education.Since we're talking about films, there are THOUSANDS of films that use muted palettes. And that's ignoring black and white films which often look excellent.Try and make something dark and moody with vibrant colours, its never going to work. Or is dark and moody not allowed for some reason. Let me guess, its "edgy".
>>11097740sippy bippy
I dont give a shit about the artstyle. Windwaker is a terrible game with dogshit game design
>>11098268>Artists also use muted palettes too.Mean nothing if there's no color to make something pop. It all get very monotonous. Which is find if you're going for some deserted Fallout wasteland or SotC.>Try and make something dark and moody with vibrant colours, its never going to work.Majora's Mask did this just fine. Also Hollow Knight. And Journey. And the Ori games. And Bastion. And Child of Light. And Firewatch. I could go on.
>>11098268>Try and make something dark and moody with vibrant colours, its never going to work.Bioshock
zelda turned gay with ocarina. did it turn gayer with wind waker? yes, but the damage had already been done long before that. the only really non-gay zelda games are on the nes. lttp is fun but you could tell they were well on their way to babification.
>>11098123I was born in 91, grew up playing sm64 pokemon red and OOT and I still think WW is highly superior to any other 3d zelda. keep seething
>>11098330>WW is highly superior to any other 3d zeldabased on what? I could use a good laugh
>>11098331>WW is highly superior to any other 3d zeldaMore freedom.
>>11098334are you sure?
>>11098337Yes. Vast ocean, many islands to discover, and you can tackle dungeons in almost any order you choose after the initial stages of the game.
>>11098341>many islands to discoveryah like 8 of the exact same reefs, or 7 star island, which is just 7 rock pillars you cant do anything on, or mother and child isles, which you need to warp into each time and have nothing to do on, or greatfish isle, which is literally unfinished and only serves to talk to a trader >and you can tackle dungeons in almost any order you choose after the initial stages of the game.lol, the fuck you can>cant do ice/fire without their respective arrows>cant do Return to FF/helmorac without hammer>cant do wind temple without iron boots
Both are good
>>11098163it looks like shit, always has
>>11098328Yeah it just kinda dawned on me how soft OoT isWhen I played as a kid I thought it was a scary, dark, gritty game which it definitely is for a childrens game but the music and effects are very beautiful and comforting, I just focused more on the dark aspects back then
>>11098242>>11098268You can have dark tones, but contrast is very important on darker pieces.If you compare the best black and white movies to worse made ones, the best all take into consideration how to make the characters stand out and background/foregrounds feel like different plains instead of all washing out. heavy use of black through white, where as a lot of forgotten B-movies from this era are all greys everywhere. The issue people have with a of brown and bloom games of the 2000's is the lack of contrast in the images. It doesn't need to be pastel, but the colors in these games tend to mix together in to mush because there's too much going on with no contrast. Granted I don't think colors are the real issue in TP, it's more the textures all washing together.
>>11098328>zelda turned gay with ocarinaOoT had more gore than any Zelda before or since
>>11098331I loved the sense of exploration, I actually really enjoyed filling out the map and discovering what each little island held. the end game fetch quest was actually the best part of the game for me, for that reason (if you filled out the map beforehand then yeah it would be boring and shitty)compare this to OOT where the overworld is just a big grass field with almost nothing to discover.
>>11098452>the end game fetch quest was actually the best part of the game for meimagine enjoying a literal paywall
>>11098268>Artists also use muted palettes too.The best movies use this on a scene by scene basis because the directors know that having everything constant throughout the whole thing would get monotonous and boring. nta but bringing up black and white movies, when it was a technical limitation of the time and not necessarily a stylistic choice, is the exact sort of pretentiousness I would expect from a Snyder fan.
>>11098459even as a kid there was never any point I had to grind for rupees like a retard. sounds like a skill issue
>>11098474>if you dont like paying an NPC to continue the game, you must have had trouble getting rupees
>>11098268>And that's ignoring black and white films which often look excellent.If they use a lot of white for contrast. White was sort of the use of color back then.
>>11098472> technical limitation of the timeNTA but I think shooting in black and white has been a stylistic choice since the 40s
>>11097963Cel shading almost always fails at idea it's trying to pitch: you never feel like you're playing a cartoon. At most it's just "here's a regular 3D game but woooooah everything has heavy black outlines on it". It's just ugly. It's only in this modern generation of games cel shading finally can accomplish its goal, and even then it's restricted to stuff like 2D fighters like Guilty Gear Xrd which keeps the animation frames intentionally low and the camera fixed so as not to spoil the illusion.
>>11098484It was more like the 1960s. Color film was expensive. That was more the limitation.
>>11098315Yes contrast is important, but that doesn't require any vibrant colours to achieve.Majoras Mask has a sombre tone in direct contrast to its cheery visuals, its the story that provides the darkness. Hollow Knight is almost exclusively desaturated colours and blue, the rest of the games mentioned don't achieve dark and moody visuals.>>11098319Bioshock isn't any more saturated than Twilight Princess is, maybe you should try playing it again.>>11098405Contrast doesn't require vibrant colours, its one way to achieve it, certainly not the only way. Twilight Princess isn't brown and bloom, not even close. Maybe the Twilight sections, but that makes sense.>>11098472I've never watched a Snyder film, and full colour was achievable since the 30s, you also had tinted films like Dr Kaligari and Nosferatu. Most black and white films were both for stylistic and budgetary reasons.>>11098480White isn't a colour in that sense, its a tone. Changing saturation on white does nothing and I said muted, not dark.
>>11098485who fucking cares if it "looks like a cartoon" or not. it looks nice, a lot nicer than most 6th gen garbage (like TP) and thats the only thing that matters. WW, JSRF, Okami, all still look super beautiful to this day.
>>11098547
>>11098617>>11098547Seems like you're moving the goalposts now. You were arguing that it's not possible to make a dark moody game with vibrant colors, anon points out games that are dark and moody with vibrant colors and then you go... well, actually, it's the story that provides the darkness. Which seems not at all like your original argument.>Bioshock isn't any more saturated than Twilight Princess is
>>11098572And I never want to play those games ever again, so fat lot of good "look beautiful" does. Okami is the most boring fuck game ever designed.
>>11098637You didn't like JSRF? What is wrong with you?
On a side note… How come WW is so upbeat when technically it is the "bad" timeline of Zelda? The world got fucked by Ganon to the point the gods drowned it all and Hyrule with it. Vice versa, TP is a "good" timeline, isn't it? Though I guess it's easier to find evils to be depressed about.
>>11098617Fair enough, that does have more saturated than Twilight Princess is, I misremembered. Much like how you're probably just remembering the twilight sections in Twilight Princess and think that's what the whole game looks like. Even so, that's clearly a different feel than Twilight Princess. I wouldn't call it moody, its seedy. Its like being out late at night in the seedy part of town. Also the saturated colours there are all neon signs, and the environment itself is pretty muted. Look at the red curtain for example. You can actually find colours like that and even more saturated in Twilight Princess.>>11098618Not really, this is a thread about visuals. Nobody could argue that Majora's Mask has moody visuals. Creepy at times, dank too. But its not the same vibe as TP.
>>11098751>that does have more saturated than Twilight PrincessFuck sake, that's what happens when you edit while distracted. "That does have more saturation than Twilight Princess" is what I meant to say.
>>11098736The game is about a hero rising up and a new future to be created over the mistakes of the old one, so it's cheerful. Hyrule lived on in it's people, and will survive.Gonna be a weeb and say it's a very Japanese philosophy, there's good and bad to things even after a tragedy. The old Hyrule's land was lost but it's people survived and kept their culture and legends. You can't restore the old Hyrule but you can create something new from what was broken. The western take(at least back then) would be to make things exactly as they were and make the flooded Hyrule a distopia and everyone miserable. But instead people survived and had their own hopes and dreams. With TP's timeline, there was no great story of a hero to motivate people. Link did a heroic thing, but the story of a boy who reported a traitor the the proper authorities won't inspire adventure and heroism like a boy who defeated a great evil and disappeared mysteriously. Some strife is needed to build and inspire. Ultimately there's still good people like Link who will riseup to fill that need.
>>11097690>it looks like a gay baby gameGod I hate westerners so much
>>11098848To be fair, it is a gay baby game so the look matches.
>>11098878I feel like gay babies are a niche market. So its a pretty bold choice for Nintendo.
>>11097690I'm not even a fan of TP but think the game look beautiful.
>>11098572>WW, JSRF, Okami, all still look super beautiful to this day.You forgot Taz Wanted. Yes whenever you see it mentioned here it's probably me, I've literally never seen anyone else shill it on /vr/Oh and also Ape Escape 3
>>11098937
>>11097865Well, biggest problem for me was it's length of the game. The game is too short and I wished they filled it with more islands to explore and do shit on. But I don't know, maybe that's just fine at the time in 2003.
>>11098959>too shortIsn't it longer than OoT actually? Despite having way less content. At least the original version
>>11098969>Isn't it longer than OoT actually?I don't know, it doesn't feel like it is. OoT had about 8 temples compared to I think 5 in WW.
>>11098959>>11098991Recently took me 55 hours to 100%. Don't really think thats too short.
>>11098991\Wind Waker takes a bit longer to 100% complete due to it's large ocean world and side quests and stuff.OoT is around 30 hours, WW maybe more like 40.
>>11098991>>11099006Not really a reliable source but HLTB says that WW really is a bit longer than OoT when it comes to just the main game. And it actually felt like it for me, it's because of the sailing and the triforce shard quest
>>11097852I'll need to dig my mags, I remember reading it on EGM Mexico and Atomix
>>11097768>How does this contradict anything I've said?I misread you earlier. I'm retarded and will take the L.
>>11098945looks amazing, is the game actually good though? also viewtiful joe
>>11097786>”I get mad at people who trash windwaker and it’s art style because of their ignorant first impressions.”>”I do the same to twilight princess”At least you admitted to being a hypocritical retard. Not many on here would do that so I have to give you some credit.
>>11099019Maybe the game time is counting all the naps a player winds up taking from WW putting them to sleep.
>>11099019So basically OOT is way longer based on actual content and WW is calculated as being longer just because a lot of it is just sitting on a boat doing nothing.
And it still didn't look as good as Spaceworld 2000.
>>11099327Actually most of the length of Wind Waker comes from the triforce shard quest. Comparatively you spend the same relative amount of time sailing the Great Sea as you do rolling across Hyrule Field.
>>11098268>Try and make something dark and moody with vibrant colours, its never going to work.Suspira and a lot of giallos, lots of Tim Burton stuff, beyond the black rainbow,
>>11098158They're based on the Little Prince and the Eight Headed Dragon.So was Samurai Jack, incidentally, hence Kid Jack and Toon Link looking alike.
>>11097897>oot was edgy and darkoh please
>>11097690I just wanted that original trailer they showed. another game like OOT. wow, what a concept. too hard for nintendo to wrap their head around I guess.
>>11099617Blame Aonuma for being given the keys to the Zelda series. He's the one who hated the tech demo's concept, that it wasn't the "type of game" he wanted to make.Had Koizumi remained the Zelda guy, the series would be so different now.
>>11099618people always say tp was too much like oot, but that's wrong. it failed because it's not enough like it.
>>11099620It sucks they removed the Magic mechanc but scrapping a leaked early build and the Japanese 1.0 version, there's remnants of an old stream and it seems all magic was going to be good for was warping, transforming and using Light Arrows.
>>11098937>>11098948Don't get me wrong, but if you didn't tell me, I'd have thought this was an average PS2 or early 360 game, more likely some cookie cutter RPG. This isn't exactly a great thing for an art direction of the biggest series out there. The attention to detail like a small patch of vegetables helps it stand out, but you're gonna need to take a long look at the picture to notice it.It's not jarring really, it's just generic and there's not exactly much to catch your eye here, and it's honestly a bit forgettable. Why is it that I barely can tell this Zelda from Oblivion?
>>11097947Laughed pretty Hard at this. Thanks
>>11099245At least you admit to getting mad at what you don't like. Next step may be cutting the projection a little and actually conceiving somebody could simply not like things without throwing violent tantrums about it.To be fair, if I had been trapped in my own head for two full decades because of an emotional breakdown at how a random entertainment product looked, I'd also want an easy everyday way to not deal with it. It sounds exhausting.
>>11099664If we go by what Yusuke Nakano says in Art and Artifacts pg. 168, Nintendo of America had an unprecedented amount of control over Twilight Princess and steered the direction of the game really hard to appeal exclusively to the American market. In thay page Nakano mentions designing TP Link originally as a bearded seasoned knight, who despite being on his latter years still was Link nonetheless but NoA requested him to just do Ocarina again.
>>11099884Then it's just as I said in the OP, Westerners ruin everything they touch as usual. Just let the Western game industry burn already, let all those AAA slop studios go bankrupt and sell them to Tencent. Fuck this gay earth
>>11099617>>11099618Anon, you have to understand that was just MORE OF THE SAME and nobody wants that.Now buy Toon Link Game #482
>>11099896Don't use up all your buzzwords in one post. You might want to save some for later.
>>11099898there was only one mainline zelda with toon link and two handheld spinoffs
>>11099896Japanese games made with western audiences in mind used to be good though
>>11099923Noooo toon zelda was universally rejected but at the same time too many people loved it and they were zoomers but simultaneously old enough in 2002 and also toon zelda flopped extremely but simultaneously there's too many followups.
>>11099935>has to ignore every interview ever given that shows any time Toon Link shows up it's because Aonuma tells his staff "make it Toon Link, *I* want Toon Link"
>>11099985>has to ignore how the director/producer of a game is the one actually directing/producing itLol to be fair, he only directed the first Celda. If it's a personal fixation, that may explain why Twilight, which he also directed, turned out so shitty to the point of believable spite.
>>11100008I have trouble getting mindbroken by either aesthetic unlike what seems the case on average, but I gotta say this guy can be a fucking clown who seemingly doesn't really know what he wants.For starters, his best game (Majora's Mask) was basically a masterpiece on accident because the "fixes" he called for for the 3DS remake actually ruined the game. And I actually dislike the random abuse of that word, but in this one case I absolutely 100% stand behind it: the appeal was RUINED, to the point that make it plain that Aonuma didn't really understand why the people who loved the original actually loved it.And then, for all the perfectly realized art direction of the original Wind Waker (it WAS perfect in execution, regardless of how misguided the intent or anybody's personal like or dislike of it) he again missed the point with the re-release by adding shading and more post-production nonsense effects.
TP's artistic style is more appealing to me
TP's art style would have been pretty good if the Wii were maybe half a generation ahead, but the models are too blocky and the textures too blurry
>>11099606The Shadow Temple was the Hyrule Royal Family's torture chamber during the war that's mentioned at the beginning of the game which displaced Link from his parents as a baby. After Ganon takes over he kills several people, enslaves others, and turns others into what are basically zombies.Its not the darkest game in the world, but there's plenty of darkness in the game. There are lots of examples I didn't mention as well.
>>11097897>endless bitching about a perfectly good game that has a different art styleNintendo’s at its best when it just does what it wants creatively and doesn’t listen to the kinds of criticism represented by 50% of anons itt. Their creativity is hit-or-miss, true, but I’d rather have a few failures if it means also having superstar successes. And their hit rate has been pretty damn high since the NES appeared.
>>11100483thisnintendo is certainly better without the mario mandate
>>11100030Yuusule Nakano's artwork for it is great. You can see the Frazetta inspiration in its composition.
>>11100635I assume Yuusule Nakano is the artist who did not paint this >>11097786 for example.
>>11100643He did.He also painted the new illustrations for Twilight Princess HD OoT3D, MM3D and WW3D, however Skyward and Breath/Tears has been handed by a younger artist he now overseas. He's supposed to be now a supervisor in a desk job so he has to request and insist to be allowed to draw. He also did the Smash Ultimate tapestry.Curiously enough, this is the same reason Inafune mentioned for leaving Capcom, being raised to desk job via seniority where he cant draw designs.
>>11100643(nta) Nakano's digital paintings are fucking awful and his usage of color competent at best and garish at worst, but his drawings and lineart are pretty cool. I like his stuff from OoT and MM the best.
>>11098784Why do retards feel like they have to make up excuses for their typos? I bet you can't even spell "saturation" without SpellCheck.
>>11100670NTA but shut the fuck up for the love of god
>>11100669To be fair to the man he did the original TP paintings under really strict time limits becausd TP was supposed to come our March 2005. His TPHD and his new OoT3D paintings are better.Also, pyw.
something about the aesthetic of oot/mm just couldn't be forcibly replicated with tpI appreciate ww more for trying something new
>>11097690To be fair they still used the WW style for Four Swords Adventure, Minish Cap, Phantom Hourglass, and Spirit Tracks
>>11100729>the B-team style Really I'm not as much attached to the style itself, but the fact that they tried something artistic and different for once. Minish Cap and later handheld Zeldas all feel "more of the same in a style we replicate without much artistic input". And anyway, Minish Cap is just that generic GBA style with flat colors and thick outlines like GBA Kirby / M&L.
>>11100486I don’t get why people don’t understand this. You kill creativity and greatness by demanding sameness.
>>11100938I feel Odyssey and Wonder have been active steps towards breaking the mandate. People say concept art New Dong City "looked so much better", but it doesn't, it looks like a Mario Party map, it's sterile.
>>11101000Wonder was a step in the right direction but it still adheres too closely to the NSMB art style.Nice quads.
>>11100938People don't WANT creativity. They want the same slop they've been fed before because it's comfort food.
>>11101000Kinda sucks that that Princess Peach game was so easy, I think that was a step in the right direction.
>>11100729And Tri Force Heroes in 2015
>>11097709>If you weren't underage you'd know where the industry was at the time desperate to be taken as "a serious artform" and how even industry people from the US (whose games wete starting to overtake the sales of Japanese game with stuff like Halo and God of War) harshly critisized Wind Waker as "Nintendo sabotaging the industry so it can't be taken seriously ". >It was a shit time.congratsfaggot OP zoomzoom on suicide watch
>>11097690TP is actually cell shaded and many effects were carried over from WW. Bet you didn't even know the water in TP is the same as in WW only with the top layer being made transparent.
>>11097709>It was a shit time.We never moved on from these shit times. Many games are STILL moving to dumb boring realism. Many faggots STILL want dumb validation for games to be treated "seriously".We NEVER got out of this shitty mindset (in the mainstream) and it's still awful
I personaly think every Zelda game should try a new visual style or atleast setting. The only exception being if its a sequel to a previous game/specific version of the world, at which point it should share the same style. I am fine with toon style.I am fine with overly western, Lord of the Rings movie influenced style.I am fine with whatever the hell the newest games use.I just hope they keep trying different shit. Its fun having variety.
>The reason a movie like On the Beach, books like Winesburg, Ohio and For Whom the Bell Tolls are bad to the point of being laughable, but not bad to the point of being enjoyable, is that they are too dogged and pretentious. They lack fantasy. There is Camp in such bad movies as The Prodigal and Samson and Delilah, the series of Italian color spectacles featuring the super-hero Maciste, numerous Japanese science fiction films (Rodan, The Mysterians, The H-Man) because, in their relative unpretentiousness and vulgarity, they are more extreme and irresponsible in their fantasy - and therefore touching and quite enjoyable.https://classes.dma.ucla.edu/Spring15/104/Susan%20Sontag_%20Notes%20On%20-Camp-.pdf
>>11103963who the fuck is the fruity pirate on the top left I don't rmemeber him
>>11097897I remember how it all happened. 2001 was an extremely tough time to be a straight white male. After the gay baby Link fiasco, there was a mass exodus of gamers to PS2. I remember saying: "Fellow men… we are no longer welcome here. This is not our home anymore". So I was waiting for MGS2 to play as dark and edgy Snake. But imagine my shock when they gave us gay Raiden. Then everyone was waiting for a new dark and edgy game about Cloud, but instead Square first gave us FF about literal babies, then a game about gay keyblades and Disney?But, the last straw came later. Everyone was waiting for a new GTA. But imagine my shock when it turned out the main hero was black. After that, I stopped playing games and only watched DVDs on my PS2. Only my sister used it for MGS2's vibro function. Gay babies have won, and life post 9/11 America was never the same anymore.
>>11097786>but the actual in-game stuff looks niceHard disagree. It looks like someone smeared vaseline all over the screen.
Both the Wind Waker and Twilight Princess aesthetic is sort of on par with cheesy old postcards from the turn of the twentienth century or shows like The Jetsons and The Flintstones, but whether it really has the exact sense of character that those shows did is difficult to say. Imamura's brilliant sense of 'instant character' is present, but Wind Waker is trailing Hanna-Barbera quite a bit because it would almost have required a concurrently animated show or manga to explain that the game's secondary characters are more than basic stereotypes. Following the shonen style of Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, what's most 'impressive' about Wind Waker is its sheer amount of genderfluid characters. As a pastiche Twilight Princess doesn't grasp the Western sense of Fantasy-based art from the 19th Century, which would've been more about the horse Epona and less about some Norse wolf god, and the Twili would be less like jötunn trolls and more like elves or fairies -- which would've been a good way to involve Tingle/Purlo in the story. Of course designers can combine elements any way they like but the Western perception is still like reading engrish on a t-shirt, it can take you right out of the experience.Skyward Sword is an influx of whimsical Gogolian Russian naturalism that seemed more aesthetically sure-footed. It might've been interesting if art designers and writers had consciously pursued something more literary there, but it had the same camp sense of character (arguably more broadly enjoyable in Skyward Sword, but also more conceptually out of place). Maybe due to the abundance or lack of staff, it's clear they aren't so adept at sifting through various artistic styles to find one that makes sense and is legible, increasingly they're left with a hodgepodge aesthetic that could be anything.
The real point of a story in a game is that you're able to use characters in the right context, using each in the right way to get a complete and full character arc.Campiness arises when you know a lot of characters but no destiny-based stories. Like>Oh, you guys like ADVENTURE!??>I'll give you ADVENTURE!>Adventure would probably have a protagonist like THIS, some goofy pirates like THIS, a bird-thing like THIS, an old man like THIS, etc. and then their destinies appear to have no meaning, so they get away on you.>>11097771>I actually like the twilight princess art style. It reminds me a bit of what SMT Nocturne was going for.Interesting take I never saw it that way. Also never perceived the newer games as a Ghibli movie.
>>11097897>nintendo releases ocarina of time/majora's mask>people find crazy how edgy and dark they are
>>11104310I once called a nintendo fan gay in an argument on /v/ because he kept using tired buzzwords and he mentally shut down, I like to think this is a butterfly effect of that moment.
>>11097897As a lifelong Nintendo fan, I am going to tell it to you straight that you are completely deluded. Zelda games had a little bit of darkness here and there, it's not 100% sunshine and rainbows (Dark World in ALTTP, also Link's Awakening), but NOBODY has ever had their minds blown by any darkness of any Zelda game, nor were there any expectation by anyone that this would be built upon further for even broader and darker content. Not now, not ever.I'm sure that there are more of you out there, but you are not normal and your line of thinking is bizarre.
I love that Wind Waker is so shitty of a game its fans can only pick a fight with the game that was made as a direct apology for its existence.
>>11104558OP here, I'll say that OoT got me there for a moment when you travel to the future and see the Hyrule castle and its surroundings corrupted by Ganon. This was kind of dark, but then you learn that the rest of the world didn't really change all that much, so they didn't go very far here.
>>11097727Literally me.
>>11104580You kidding me? Castle Town is full of zombies, everyone packs into Kakariko (which then gets lit on fire), zero wildlife in Hyrule Field anymore, Zora and Gorons are utterly rekt, Lake Hylia is like a modern day California, Kokiri are infested, not to mention that Hyrule Castle is now desolate, void of sunlight and floating over a river of flowing magma. The rest of the world changes a lot, anon.
>>11104580Sure, but that's more or less a continuation of the Dark World concept from ALTTP, showing how fucked everything is when someone like Ganon rules the world, and again, not THAT dark all things considering.
>>11102456The people are wrong
>>11104694I agree ALTTP did it first, but that world was more surreal and goofy, way less so dark and dreary. OoT is the opposite, the zombies walking on the market square alone are enough to tell you things aren't going well, and then there's the guy living in a house next to the gate who became a ghost. Now go and compare that to pink rabbit Link.>>11104680Zora and Gorons simply vanish, which is a bit cheap and doesn't really produce that much effect. Kakariko is mostly perfectly fine, and it burns only late in the game. I guess I'd be more impressed if it was all scorched Earth when you first visited it, but the locations are mostly unchanged. Kokiri are mostly fine too so whatever. So many characters are still goofy idiots after you're an adult, so if they wanted to make everything dark and serious then it didn't quite work.
Reminder TP lost to Wind Waker on>the GCN>the WiiU (remaster)and proceeded to make the same amount of money, as Wind Waker (GCN), on the DS with Phantom Hourglass.Had they did a proper WW sequel on the Wii, it would have clowned the fuck out of Toilet Paper in terms of sales.Aonuma won, Miyamoto lost.
>>11097771>designers originally aimed Midna to be "demonic" skull kid but loli>used Tetra on Wolf Link as a base>this makes the anti-lolicon seetheMidna, while is a shortstack, is loli-coded.and that's pretty based!
>>11097861>Wind Waker even flopped in Japanand Twilight Princess flopped even harder, so much Miyamoto has to comment about that.https://ew.com/article/2007/05/08/man-who-made-mario-super/>Shiggy: "And, well, to be honest with you, Zelda: Twilight Princess is not doing very well at all in Japan. It is very disappointing."
>>11097897>people find crazy how edgy and dark they are>OoT and MM>"""""edgy"""""You weren't there, TPzoomer. Calling MM "dark" is overselling too, it was heavy and bizarro at best.
>>11097726These are really expressive and interesting character designs desu. Twilight Princess was visually striking and I don't get the hate
>>11097690SotC / Demons Souls / Twilight Princess / Kingdom Hearts / Okami etc... are all very similar in style and have all aged fantastically. Wind Wanker was a big shock for anyone who wasn't also an avid Zelda player on GameBoy as well. It was such an incredibly hard departure from Zelda 64's art style most people felt sick by it. Looking back now, its forgivable, its an over all good game etc... it may have aged slightly better graphically because of the art style ( based on 2D Zelda games, not fucking "classic Japanese animation" ) is less technical. I don't think the plot, characters or "game" aged very well in comparison to Zelda 64. I'd say the only Zelda that has aged worse in terms of gameplay is Skyward Sword. However, I think Skyward Sword has aged better graphically.
>>11105608>not fucking "classic Japanese animationYoshiki Haruhana and Eiji Aonuma explicitly mentioned The Little Prince and the Eight Headed Dragon, that's how we know for certain, man.
>>11104916And yet, it remained rhe best selling Zelda game until BotW. We have to remember Zelda wasn't that popular in Japan, something something "Link being too self sufficient" and lack of EXP/RPG stats being a turn off there.TP Link is popular there but only among yumeshi who love ikemen Link, that's how they managed to band together to request the manga version to be made, but theu don't play videogames.
>>11097786>The fake painterly illustrations of the Switch games are still a bit lameYou serious? I think they look fantastic, ditto the illustrations for A Link Between Worlds. They kinda make me wanna go buy oil paints and try my own.
>>11098341Anon, you're lying through your teeth. The only dungeons you can do on "any order" are Earth Temple and Wind Temple. If you try to break off the set path, the King of Red Lions will stop you and the world won't open up until after the Tower of the Gods, which is past half-way through.
>>11106280>it remained the *best selling Zelda game*Because it was sold at launch same with Fag of the Wild on the Switch.Both games sold dishonestly, they sold trash to hungry console owners.
>>11097876>metroid prime that lowHoly
>>11108383Yeah. It seems that Japan really hated FPS after all. Goldeneye was also low, PD even worse.
>>11108348Tears of the Kingdom is an near-end of lifespan game and still outsold Twilight Princess and got close to BotW's sales. What's the excuse there?
>>11106497>Earth Temple and Wind TempleYou can't even do those in any order. You have to do Earth first or the game won't let you take Makar with you to the Wind Shrine.
>>11108397Even back in the day, during the height of the military MURRICAN FPS era in the seventh gen, FPSs sold really poorly and it was attributed to the Japanese getting motion sickness really easily.
>>11108647Maybe it should be attributed to Japanese having taste really easily
>>11097876I'm surprised to see Network Transmission that low given the merch juggernaut Rockman.EXE was in Japan during this time.
>>11104874TP sold better than Wind Wanker you retard
>>11105608Kingdom Sharts and OhCuckMe look nothing like he three other games you mentioned you retarded faggot
>>11108649No its because japs don't like controlling the camera, and that's literally the gameplay of an FPS.
>>11108735This 100%, for some reason for so long that amount of freedom to them felt "disrespectful" to the game designers, and that's also why many game designers like the Trails of guys kept doing their games with fixed camera angles.
>>11102456Nah the truth is somewhere in between. If people didn't want creativity and novelty, then you'd never get anything new. People want something that is familiar and surprising at the same time. Something old mixed with something new.Me personally, I'm so tired of seeing the same stuff these days I can't get interested in anything that isn't vastly different from anything I've ever seen before, and that's getting harder and harder to find. Everything feels stale to me. But then, I'm not the average person and I've played, watched, heard, read, almost all of the "must experience before you die" stuff that was ever released.
>>11108747Tbh, I kind of get where they're coming from. Not so much the disrespect aspect. But I think that fixed camera angles or removing camera control from the player can do many things visually that effect the gameplay and mood massively that just can't be done when the player has full control over the character at all times. That's why modern games take control away from the player so much, because it allows the developers to make interesting set pieces and draw your attention to what they want you to see. But its just frustrating in that instance and they should either commit to allowing the player to control the camera or not.But similar things can be said for the opposite, having full control over the camera can give the player a lot of freedom, and like I said its the main gameplay mechanic of an FPS. So I don't think one way is better than the other.I wish people treated games more like films or any other art form where choices depend on context rather than just being a form of technology which can only be improved and once something is made "better" there's no reason to ever use the mechanics that came before. Makes me think of AVGN and how he always complains whenever a 3D game doesn't work exactly like Super Mario 64. The japs are just as guilty as us for this mindset.
