Are there any games of this genre that aren't designed to milk coins from kids at the arcade, and are actually fair? Just using a continue every time feels lame, but trying to actually finish a game without dying is torture and not fun
River City Ransom is the closest to what I want out of a beat em up, I recommend it. It was made for consoles but still pretty hard
Have you tried getting good?
I found Guardian Heroes pretty fair and well-adapted to consoles. It's a weirder beatemup but it's got branching paths and I like the aesthetic
>>11235793Personally I never really consider myself good enough to 1cc without dedicating to a game for quite a long time, but I do like the feeling of going for less credits than my last time playing (or similar credits if I'm trying a new character). That said you posted a pretty fair one, if you know what you're doing you can essentially 1cc/No Continue FF3 without much issue (my first blind playthrough I got like 80% through before I used a Continue). Streets of Rage 2 is also pretty fair once you know the game well enough; 1 would be even more fair outside of some of the bosses being assholes while 3 has some weird level design choices even in the Japanese release that didn't get the difficulty cranked up for the west. Really you're more likely to find what you want in console-exclusive beat-em-ups since they don't work on that credit economy.
Guardian HeroesTeenage Mutant Ninja Turtles IV (SNES version)Streets of Rage 2Double Dragon II (NES version)Mighty Final FightBattletoads & Double Dragon (any version)River City Ransom
>>11235793Panzer Bandit for PS1 is a ton of fun, errs on the easier side, but still has enough going on to keep you invested in multiple playthroughs.
>>11235793Inferior culture issue, see >>11225729
>>11235851t. shitter with no clears
>>11235851I love beat-em-ups but they are by far the easiest of the "arcade genres." I know I know, 1CCs and whatnot...but they're still far easier than your average SHMUP.
>>11235957most shitters get filtered by final fight though
>>11235793>designed to milk coinsNo beat 'em up is designed that way except MAYBE the ones by Konami. You just suck.
>>11235963Final Fight is not a fair game and you've never 1CC'd it.
People keep bringing up the Japanese tendency to try to 1cc everything, but while that approach has its upsides, the reality is that the real motivation behind that behavior is the Japanese's bad habit of trying to play games optimally. It's the same reason why their RPGs have no role-playing and are such fucking utter trash.
>>11235793Super Double Dragon was pretty good. You can easily one life the game if you know what you're doing.
>>11235793>Are there any games of this genre that aren't designed to milk coins from kids at the arcade, and are actually fair?All of them?
>>11236217lol
>>11235793Try odin sphere, its got some rpg stuff that changes the experience of beatemups imo. There are also the dnd games on saturn or guardian heros on saturn but ive never played it. Viewtiful joe is fun too.
>>11235793The Ninja Warriors is really good, not too difficult or too button spammy. Cool attacks.https://youtu.be/GYYnoi39sZU?t=15
>>11236217You seem to be forgetting that Midway made beat em ups.
>>11235971Beat em ups are common to arcades and any arcade game is designed to milk coins, or it just won't be profitable to publisher and arcade manufacturer, dumbass
>>11235976hi, i 1cc beat em ups and run n guns for funfinal fight is a fine game and doesn't err on the harder side, but it's not a cakewalk. my favorite game is cowboys of moo-mesa
>>11235793play castlevania: sotn
>>11236230D&D games are great, the first game's damage is a dice roll even, but outside of magic and items it's not super rpg heavy (which is a good thing imo).
>>11236232I think they are all 1cceable, NARC, Guardians of the hood, pit fighter etc. But if your point is they aren't near as polished/balanced as stuff like Capcom arcades that's 100% right
>>11235793Good fastrom release
>>11235793If you find final fight 2 unfair you don't even know the fundamentals. You don't learn them if you continue soam or save state or rewund
I've played a lot of the classics but Double Dragon is a total blind spot for me outside of brief looks at the first and third NES games. How many of them actually hold up? I know people called Neon the best in the series (outside of the fucking Zeebo exclusive only a handful of Brazilians have played) when it came out but I thought it was just okay with great presentation propping it up. I know DD's heyday was mostly before Final Fight and Streets of Rage "figured out" the genre but they made a lot so I figure there was some iteration there.
>>11237721Return of DD and GBA are the best ones
>>11235793Yesterday I 1cc'ed pic related, It's the first beat 'em up I've ever played and only started playing it like five days ago. It's pretty beginner friendly from my experience (pretty good also)
>>11237721GBA version is the best one. It's a heavily expanded version of the original arcade game with all the rough edges smoothed over.Super/Return is also very good but stick with the Japanese version. Both versions feel sort of incomplete but the western release is missing even more content.I actually think Neon is really good. I actually bothered to beat the game on all 3 difficulties which is something I NEVER do. It's slower and more defense based than most beat-em-ups but for some reason it really clicked with me.IV feels like some sort of BoR fangame that they charged money for. It's dirt cheap so I guess I can't complain.Don't know anything about the latest one except for the aesthetic is absolute garbage.
>>11235793Alien vs Predators is one of the few arcade beat'em up where you can beat a few stages before running out of credits. It doesn't have cheap enemies or bosses that break your combos once you start hitting.
>>11237785>>11237964So Super & GBA it is then as far as retro goes. The newest one is Gaiden which seems to mostly be a copy of the indie dev's prior game with the license because he somehow got ArcSys to let him use it, and it's got this "kill groups with specials to get rewards" system and tag mechanics that kind of get kneecapped by a roguelite structure; I'm sure I'll play it for cheap one day but it doesn't move me. The upcoming one by Yuke's looks like shit.
The MvC Collection releasing reminded me to try out Capcom's Punisher and damn this game is so good for '93. Every hit is meaty and I love the throw game, plus the way he just tosses weapons downwards while jumping is so useful once you memorize the spacing.
>>11236231One of the few remakes I'd say is wholly better than the original, but as far as SNES goes it's still one of the best on the system.
>>11237785>>11237964>>11238078So far just for the sake of variety and a fair shake I've given DDII (Arcade), DD & Battletoads (SNES), and Super DD a try, and I can't say I was a big fan of any of them. DDII was just outright bad compared to the NES version (which is the one I thought was DD3) and I really didn't like the Left/Right Attack system at all. DD&B feels like it took an approach of looking cool above making any mechanical sense; the extremely lengthy throw animations you need to mash through that have zero i-frames and can't cancel suck so much (the weapons have them on their normal strings too) and bosses mostly just crumble to spacing out dash attacks over and over. The platforming just feels bad too, and I particularly dislike beat-em-ups that take off an entire life for a pitfall. Super definitely has something there once you understand the mechanics, but the controls and enemy design betray any cool idea it has. Movement was weirdly sluggish (and I don't mean it needed a run, the walk was just really slow), it felt like there wasn't any consistency to getting certain combo enders out or getting the low kick that beats blocks, nor what moves I could catch with my block. I've never played a beat-em-up with enemies so hard-coded to stand perfectly adjacent to you on either side at equal distances. Weapons locking you out of the Block & Power Meter were really odd too, though the nunchaku were strong enough to not need either. Ultimately I think the counter and meter mechanics were interesting but I just didn't vibe well with it, though I did get through it whereas I just dropped II Arcade and DD&B.I still have Advance which I'd definitely heard was the best "classic" DD (funnily enough I just saw that ArcSys ported it to Steam for some reason a year ago) but at this point I haven't played a single game in the series from before the 00s that I've liked which is weird given how popular it was.
>>11240879Technos games are knows for being kinda gimmicky and obtuse with the martial arts stuff, you kinda have to be open to less conventional bmups to enjoy them, but they aren't bad.
>>11240893I can feel there's something there in Super, mechanically, I just wish it felt better to control. Maybe I'd like the enemy design better if I could get what I want out consistently. DD&B is on Rare as well, rather than Technos.
>>11240895Return felt consistent to me, the one issue it had was the full meter attacks being exploitable, but the rest of the moveset was varied and fun to use too, it's not like DD1 where your moveset is completely useless and unfun. The Rare one is a precise jump kick/run attack kind of game, not deep but far from the worst console bmup.
>>11240931Oh also try the genesis version, I remember the snes one being a bit buggy in comparison
>>11240893Best Technos beat-em up from a mechanics standpoint is probably Kunio Tachi No Banka (just saw an official translated release as River City Girls Zero) or maybe Combatribes.>>11240937The SNES one is treated like a premium version of B&DD with lots of nicely redone sprites and art and some really excellent new music too. But I think it's also missing some content too - not a lot to really get worked up over though.>>11240879> I haven't played a single game in the series from before the 00s that I've liked which is weird given how popular it was.DD was huge in it's day and a lot of that was being the first (or at least the first good) beat-em-up that had co-op and the home ports were decent and released at the height of NES mania. The franchise has pretty much cruised on that high since then. I love DD but it's kind of been a cursed brand. DD II arcade was underwhelming, DD III arcade was atrocious, Super while good, was outshined by it's competition, IV is a weird budget game. Not to mention how the license holders were whoring it out for about anything for a while there. The awful cartoon, the awful movie, the awful fighting game based on the cartoon, the awful (ok it's average) fighting game based on the movie. Not idea what's going on with the upcoming game but it doesn't look good.
>>11235793The adventures of bijou billy
>>11240971I prefer Return to Kunio tachi no banka, the later is the kind of game where there's only 2 enemies on screen but they are buffed as fuck, so you have to play safe and turtley which makes the big moveset kinda pointless and redundant. Combatribes is kinda like Turtles in time in that you constantly spam the overpowered throw, the arcade version is impossible to 1cc which is kinda shit.SNES version of B&DD looks nicer but has iffy hitboxes and stuff, there was extra annoying shit like health items appearing off-screen and being unable to pick it up.
>>11240879These games are awful to play. Even mediocre Final Fight clones have better gameplay.
>>11241826respect the belt em up fathers, fag
>>11236236>any arcade game is designed to milk coinsThis is objectively false. You don't know what you're talking about.
>>11236257>the first game's damage is a dice roll evenNever knew that. Is that true about the second one?
>>11240879Play Return of Double Dragon, not Super. And the NES version of II. And the GBA game. And the first arcade game. Those are the best Double Dragon games.
>>11239016I love that art.
>>11241938Nope they left it in Mystara, combat is very different too
>>11241939Return was the ROM I played, since the thread already warned me that the JP release was better (not shocking when the same is true of SoR3).>>1124199690s Capcom had a genuine dream team of artists. Nobody has ever matched them, even Capcom from the 00s onwards (and that's not to say they haven't had a good lineup of artists).
They're made to play with friends who suck at video games. Dungeons and Dragon and Goldenaxe are great
>>11242223D&D has a 1cc ending tho
>>11242128>combat is very different tooHow so?
>>11243821Tower of Doom is like an evolution of Knights of the round, a defensive/turtley game with very strong enemies. Mystara is more spammy/rushdown kind of game with more pushover enemies, juggles and shitton of explotis, it's kinda like comparing Darkstalkers and Street Fighter.
One option for arcade games is to set the DIP switches to the easiest settings and pretend you're playing at the nicest arcade ever.
Just use save states to practice it in small sections then try to do full runs and see how far you can get. Then when you beat a hard level or boss you will get a great rush and satisfaction, and maybe clear one. Also watch youtube of good players to see what they do moment to moment to develop good strategies and routes. Its sort of like learning a hard song on an instrument, you take it in small bites then try to put the whole thing together. Also beat em ups are more complex than they initially seem.
>>11245186I just set them low and pretend I am playing a home port which are usually less bullshit but limit the continues to like 5, 7 or 9. If I get good at that I can pump up the difficulty.
I've been playing TMNT 2 The Arcade game recently and I'm surprised at how much trouble I'm having. I just recently got a game over after getting to Shogun Warrior for the first time, his flying head fucked my shit up. But before him it's always Bebop and Rocksteady that eat up most of my lives, they're the earliest bosses but they're so damn hard. I have trouble smacking them before getting away in time and getting hit myself. Is this game known as challenging or do I just suck?
>>11246904It can be hard but there's a pattern to all the enemies that allows you to fight them and take no damage. Usually involving jump kicks. Nice music on that stage, https://youtu.be/EdMsFnsX7xU
>>11246904The game fucking sucks. You just spam jump kicks over and over, slowly whittling down the bosses that have way too much HP and avoiding their bullshit. It's an incredibly tedious and hard game for all the wrong reasons.
>>11235793Venom & Spider-Man: Separation Anxiety was pretty fair, I've beat it and I'm not good at this genre at all... it has Secret Rooms with tons of extra lives and specials, but even if you just go around the levels a bit, especially crawling on walls, you'll find some and it helps, there's also the password system which helps since you can pick it up from later on instead of it restaring.I'll admit that the boss rush on the final level was BS though, because there's always 2 bosses at a time and it's miserable, Carnage's a pain too, so save up on your specials and your lives for this.
>>11235793>WAAAAH IT'S DIFFICULT THEREFORE IT WAS ONLY MADE TO STEAL MONEYYou're the reason why retro game design is dead.
>>11247031Noone cares but you anon, knowledge is free.Arcade games were meant not only to be played, but also to be watched when other people were sitting at the cabinet.Some arcades used to have notebooks near the cabs where people wrote tips and tricks too.
>>11235793The Final Fight games are not THAT fucking hard, just pick Haggar and learn how to grapple and throw cunts around like they're ragdolls, the man is goddamn sexual tyrannosaur, and his moveset improves with each title.If you just absolutely need to, turn down the difficulty and play with the CPU 2 player (at least in FF3), and that'll pick some of the slack. Mind that I say all this shit as someone who's self-proclaimed as not actually very good at fighting games and beatemups. SF2 and SF4 filter me on Normal, that's where THIS faggot is at.>>11235976>Final Fight is not a fair gameHoly fuck, listen to yourself. Have some humility.>>11236236You're missing the part where an arcade game, in addition to trying to make money, also has to be attractive to play to achieve that. You can make a ball busting wall of a game where you plug in a credit card and then hammer a button which debits you $0.25 to keep going through endless dying, but nobody thinks that shit is fun so nobody is going to interact with and thus pay to play the game.There's actually is some truly shameless quarter munchers out there, but when you look at the actually famous arcade games, they generally have enjoyable gameplay and aren't actually complete bullshit. Even pretty bullshitty ones like Total Carnage, which wasn't even fucking finished and didn't actually have its promised unlockable ending, was actually pretty fun, and people discovered that the game wasn't finished because they enjoyed it so much to actually play it that hard and far.
>>11248164>You can make a ball busting wall of a game where you plug in a credit card and then hammer a button which debits you $0.25 to keep going through endless dying, but nobody thinks that shit is fun so nobody is going to interact with and thus pay to play the game.Tell that to Midway's T2 and Revolution X
I've been playing some Mighty Final Fight lately and I really like the experience system they implemented instead of scoring. You level up to slightly improve your stats and health, and then at Lv.4 out of 6 you get a second special move, but the main thing that makes it interesting for me is that you only get experience when an enemy dies and the amount depends on what you killed with so they're able to reward kills that require more setup or risk with more EXP, and then there's the three characters leveling at different rates as well. It's a really cool system that gives depth to what would otherwise be a pretty blatant demake of FF'89 (though the limited amount of content and the pits that instantly eat up a Life are knocks against it). I wouldn't say it's better than 1989 or 3 but it's better than 2 and way better than the other spinoffs, probably about on par with FFOne.
>>11235803It was only hard because you never went to the bookstores and got the power-ups and went to the restaurants and upgraded your character
I want to pitch violent storm.Some bosses are unfair but you can learn em. Stages are fair. Also compensates by having insanely good gameplay by the time and just being ridiculously fun.
>>11235793The only beat em ups i was able to beat in arcades were Punisher and Cadillacs n dinosaurs, those two feel much more fair than say FF, the simpsons or both TMNT games
>>11237721The original arcade DD games are janky as shit. The best one is the GBA remake.
The Streets of Rage games aren't too bad as long as you figure out boss strats. The X-Men one is pretty fair too. I say this as someone who fucking sucks at Final Fight.
>>11251040The X-men one is pretty boring, Konami beat em ups in general are below Capcom's
>>11250790I love that art. I miss it when games would use pulpy art for their covers and ads.
>>11251441>learning from better players wasn't a thing in the arcadeszoom zoom
>>11251442Double Dragon flyers often had a Tetsuo Hara look to them. Makes sense as the games were inspired by Hokuto No Ken.
>>11251789yeah DD's inspirations are HnK, Bruce Lee movies (which also inspired HnK I guess) and American urban crime movies of the 70s.So it's kind of weird that Neon (a game I actually like) goes all in on 80s iconography because none of that is really referenced in in any of the classic DD games. The game's soundtrack is beyond kino though so I'll let it slide.
>>11251442I bet you don't miss pic related
>>11252459now i want a double dragon scooby doo crossover
>>11252459Hey they can't all be winners. That being said I'll take WEIRD and INTERESTING over the slavishly "on model" stuff you see today.
>>11251446Chances are those are a combination of years of strats from many sources, a lot which were acquired with savestates or worse, strategies that weren't even known before TASes. So no, it's not like watching other players in the arcade unless your arcade consisted of the accumulative knowledge of the entire community for said game and the cabinets let you play with cheat codes to try the game out. It's like people claiming gamefaqs is the same as school courtyard gossip, absolutely ridiculous. Pure cope.
>>11248172He addressed that.
>>11252459Awful but sovl
>>11252503>Chances are those are a combination of years of strats from many sourcesThe original Dodonpachi was cleared on the same month of its release according to the devs. Players were simply very good at playing games, only you would need years to get a clear.
>>11252561And what were your chance of seeing a player like that play...
>>11252562In Japan you can see them everyday, even now.
>>11251442>pulpyYou very obviously don't know what that means.
>>11252603Stop being a pedantic fuck, no one cares
>>11252564ok and even if that's true (you've never been to Japan), how that's the same thing as everyone in the world having access to decades worth of entire community knowledge on their phone?
>>11252648You're using words at random. Your posts are gay. No one likes you irl either.
>>11252503>It's like people claiming gamefaqs is the same as school courtyard gossip, absolutely ridiculous. Pure cope.It sort of is considering a lot of gossip in later years often came from stuff people saw on GameFAQs, or added themselves on it.
>>11235793Any of the Streets Of Rage games.
>>11252460Crazy that this game pretty much invented microtransactions and was hated for it.
>>11252668Other people have to use surrogates like emulation and Youtube videos.
>>11252503Zoomer shitter cope, you clearly never step on a arcade
>>11253703Even without that it's still garbage.
Best genre ever.
