Thoughts?
/thread, don't reply to me.
>>11236043100% agree except for obtuse passwords nes shit
>>11236040I exclusively used save states for megaman X-X3.
whenever i please
>>11236052Using savestates in place of passwords or long bootup screens (emulating arcade Gradius kek) is basically just a technicality, yeah. Completely different in spirit from creating a magic checkpoint
thoughts about using save states when you need to go out/sleep/etc?
>>11236040They're fine but you didnt beat the game
It don't matter
I don't consider the victory legitimate.That's why when I use savestates, I mark the game as finished with the % sign (in reference to those 'any %' speedruns that imply ending the game in any way possible).However, I have been using Save States less and less over the years.If I can't progress in a game, I simply put it down and watch the rest of the gameplay on YouTube.This year I only finished 4 games using save state.Pic related, I used save state on the last boss fight.
If you use save states you are a uberfaggot.
>>11236043All solid arguments on the bottom. This is an ironic meme made by a save state supporter.
If you used save states, guides or rewind, you didn't beat the game.Not only you cheated the game, but also yourself.You brag about your "achievements" to others, yet deep down you know that it was all fake.You didn't experience anything, the challenge, the frustration, the overcoming, improving your skills. You just took a glimpse of what the game has to offer, the same level as "beating a game watching someone else beat it on YouTube".Even a crown made with fake gold, still shines from far away.
>>11236120You truly live in your own reality. I guess you have to in order to convince yourself savestating is okay.
>>11236040Games are meant to be fun and should be played whatever way is the most fun for you. Tryhards are just showing everyone how insecure they are.
>>11236131You could make the same argument for using invincibility cheats. Sure, maybe you had fun, but you don't get to say that you really played the game.
Yes OP i use save states.No, i do not care what some /vr/ fag thinks about it.
>>11236120>playing the game as intendedversus>not playing the game as intendedtheres literally no room for any debate
>>11236197>i don't care about opinions!no need you already know you didn't beat the game
>>11236131yeah it's nice that even mentally stunted people like you can enjoy video games
Unlimited saving is essentially the unlimited ability to rewind time. I don't care if someone does it but it is rather foolish to think that unlimited time-rewind ability isn't a huge change to a game. If it was an in-game powerup it would obviously be the OP choice.
Using save-states when a passcode appears is acceptable, or if you REALLY just gotta go and turn off the system real fastif you're using it to just cheat the game thats kinda gay
>>11236040actraiser has the best osthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vx2Yq6FZqcM
>>11236040Using save states is less intuitive and more of a hassle than using a game's built in save system. It's for retards who like to forgo a game's actual save system and then end up losing hours of progress because they overwrote their save or something.
>>11236126This. Why waste your own time ruining a game for yourself.
>>11236040Love em. I use them all the time casually. When I find a game that entrances me like yesteryear I won't use save states, that just happens less and less these days. Also, yo note, most western crpgs allow you to save anywhere kind of like a savestate, well except on battles for the most part.
>>11236161They aren't fun though since they completely negate challenge from the game, save states don't.
>>11236126This is such a weird attitude, why are you playing games to try to prove something and not for the enjoyment of doing so?
>>11236040I don't care and neither should you care what others think.
>>11236392Save states completely negate challenge from the game.
>>11236440how so
>>11236446>he needs examplesstop dude.>save at boss>keep saving as you fight him>reset until you beat him
>>11236245Why not? Why should I play the game as intended?
>>11236450no one uses save states like that
>>11236453Yes they do because I've done itXD
>>11236450There's nothing wrong with any of that.
>>11236451Well one reason is that if you discuss it with others afterwards and say this games sucks, when actually you don't play any of the games the way they're intended while acting like you did, that's problematic. You wouldn't fast-forward through the non-dialogue parts of a movie. Each to their own but you could at least try to complete games without savestates.
>>11236395Nta but it's literally the exact opposite.Save state fuckers "beat" games to say they did or check a box on their backlog list.People who don't use save states know that the enjoyment of games is to be found in rising to the challenge that they present.
>>11236472This.Backlogs and shit are stupid because there's no way you can just pick out a random game and be 100% invested in it out of nowhere. You find a game that you can really get into, and play it a lot, and you appreciate it for every single thing that it is, without thinking "I need to be cheating here right now".
>>11236043Sad meme.>>11236103Sad manbaby.>>11236337Save states are for games with limited continues or a password system. That’s their primary functional purpose. It’s up to the individual how they use them, but a save state in place of a checkpoint that normally would be saved by a continue is righteous in games that have limited continues.Fuck games that have limited continues, they have always been bullshit and everyone knows it.Only actual losers are keeping a journal of the video games they beat with proof they beat it “le right way”.Literally nobody in the world cares.
>>11236040>Thoughts?I love em for allowing me to turn off games any time I want and resume later, also they are useful for practice. If you can't beat a game from start to finish without em however, then you can't really beat the game. Also I don't really understand the "it's too hard, my time is valuable" argument of using them to cheat. I bet most of those people play 100 hour long modern games but the idea of having to restart a 35min long game a few times is the game "not respecting their time?". Do you hate the game so much that you can only stomach less than an hour of it? Seems like the argument of someone who doesn't really like arcade type games.I'm not a purist, use em if you like. But if you want to say you beat it, go ahead and beat it. Take a few hours and actually replay it and get better each time. If the game is so fun it is worth bragging about, it's also probably worth investing a little time in it like you would a longer modern game.
>>11236476Limited continues are good, stop being retarded.
>>11236476You are mentally incapable of understanding the benefit of limited continues because you are not a intelligent person.
>>11236487Limited continues exist to keep dollar signs renting the game. Thats why (a supreme majority of) Japanese games are bullshit hard in the USA and a fair challenge in their home country.>>11236495>>11236493It’s hard to tell if you’re trolling or not because I know people are this pathetic.Go play video games my friend, you’re badass and winning baby.
>>11236504>limited continues exist because of rentalsThere are tons of JP games (renting was banned in Japan) with limited continues.
>>11236504>Limited continues exist to keep dollar signs renting the game.They exist because arcade type games were less than an hour long but action dense and you aren't supposed to beat them in that hour. Attrition is part of the design, the games lose most of their challenge if you can take each level and obstacle as an individual event and remove its relation to the previous. The difficulty is like that of an obstacle course, it matters if you trip on that first hurtle, it matters if you fall in the mud. You got to complete the whole course with the number of mistakes you are allotted. The course is short so you can run it again.I swear this is a modern game mindset where the game takes forever and a single level, quest, mission can be longer than an entire retro game. No one balks at the idea of replaying a 30-40 minute mission but they freak out at the idea of restarting a 30-40 minute game.>Thats why (a supreme majority of) Japanese games are bullshit hard in the USA and a fair challenge in their home country.More like a handful changed for this reason, most games kept their original difficulty intact and just as many had their difficulty lowered as they did increased.
>>11236523>I swear this is a modern game mindset where the game takes forever and a single level, quest, mission can be longer than an entire retro game. No one balks at the idea of replaying a 30-40 minute mission but they freak out at the idea of restarting a 30-40 minute game.This is exactly why normalfags eat up metroidvania slop so easily but are completely incapable of playing the real Castlevania games.
The only time I use state saves is Sonic special stages. Fuck those things.
>>11236528Thats cheating anon.I have never in my life gotten all the gems in a playthrough of sonic 1/2. I didnt even know super sayan sonic was the reward for getting them all until like 30 years later. They were always a side goal but never that big of a deal to me as I played if I missed one
>>11236534>Thats cheating anon
>>11236523Limited continues are bullshit. I’m already wasting my time playing a video game, the only way to doubly waste my time is by artificially increasing the difficulty by forcing me to replay the entire game to get to the same exact area with no continues again so I can once again replay the entire game and maybe do slightly better (or worse) my fifth/sixth/tenth time. That’s artificially increasing a games difficulty and length.Using a save state in the same place a continue would normally restart you at improves every single game that had limited continues by not wasting your time and this isn’t debatable.
>>11236548>I'm already wasting my time playing a video gameThat's your first problem. You don't even like games. Go post webms of tiktok masculinity gurus saying the same shit on >>>/v/ now.Anyway, limited continues are not "artificial" in any way. They're natural. The game enforces a requirement, an expectation on you, that in order to beat the game, you *must* fit within a certain margin of error. That's it. As you keep going, you become better and better not just at the stage you lose at, but at all the earlier stages as well. Each run is akin to that of a roguelike like Binding Of Isaac, you *shouldn't* be feeling held down by going through the beginning, that's part of the pacing, that's what prepares you for the rest. That's what prevents you from just bruteforcing until you win.
>>11236557I do like games, I’m just not a HKV sperg. I don’t like wasting my time replaying a game a hundred times because a game has limited continues because limited continues are bullshit and always will be bullshit. It’s a waste of time because you barely get to replay the level that gives you trouble, then you’re palette cleansed from it by the game forcing you to restart from the beginning.You know, i’d be forced to keep renting the game or buy it if I wanted to complete it since this roadblock exists.I’m happy you’re autistic enough to find meaning in limited continues, but your actual life you’re living right now is limited and you don’t get a continue, so I’ll continue to enjoy retro without the bullshit.
>>11236548>I’m already wasting my time playing a video gameThis is the mindset of save staters, it's not a fun thing you want to do, it's a waste you want to end sooner.>is by artificially increasing the difficulty by forcing me to replay the entire game to get to the same exact area with no continues again so I can once again replay the entire game and maybe do slightly betterThe "entire game" in this case being like 15-20 minutes to get back where you were at and I guarantee you've replayed a level or mission or quest in a modern game that took longer. Also if you can't even clear the opening levels without losing your continues... maybe you should get better.>Using a save state in the same place a continue would normally restart you at improves every single game that had limited continues by not wasting your time and this isn’t debatable.It is because a normal game views those checkpoints as the permanent place you are now. The difficulty is designed so that you take on a single challenge and reach the next checkpoint over the course of 40 hours of these checkpoints. The difficulty in short games is attritional, the whole game is the length of one or two of these checkpoints and your lives and continues are the modern games health bar. Restarting the game is just restarting a mission.It's a different type of difficulty but instead of overcoming it like you would a boss in a 40 hour game, you would rather say it is "wasting your time" and remove all of the difficulty.You call it artificial, you say it is unfair, you act like replaying the entire 40 minute game is a chore, you never just say you aren't good enough. It's always the games fault because they expect you to sink in a few hours and get better.
>>11236504You're being punished for fucking up. Stop fucking up and you won't be punished.
>>11236568>you barely get to replay the level that gives you troubleYou do. You just have to be so perfect with the earlier levels, that you do not lose any lives or continues by the time you get to the one you're struggling on. Under a limited continues system, your skill in one level of the game is directly related to your skill in all other levels, in order to make the entire game one comprehensive challenge - an obstacle course, if you will - and not a set of isolated tasks.
>>11236052this or when saves are really far one from the other.
>>11236040it's scummy as all hell i'll admit, but this just happened to me>playing breath of fire 2 blind>get to highfort>barely ever used sten, is low leveled>turns out, this is a sten section>get to first fight, get one shot>"heh, so i guess i'm supposed to lose this...right?">nope>and the only mobs in the area to grind on can kill me easily and only give like 100 xp>there's no way to leave until you progressso i had a save state from an hour ago and loaded it. it was either that or restart the whole fucking game. fucking whack.
>>11236043This is innacurate because it implies that savestaters perform better. And me, I perform better than savestaters but without using savestates. Precisely because not using savestates made me got good. That's the thing savestaters always get wrong, they think it helps them learn faster but if they truly did learn they wouldn't need savestates in the next game, and in the next game, and in the next, now would they? Savestates precisely prevent one from learning anything.
>>11236746Savestates to learn some of the game isnt the same as "beating" the game with save-states, as long as you arent using them in a real run its irrelevant
Save states are only okay if you use period-accurate hardware.
>>11236751The entire point of playing a game is to learn to play it well, if you cheated to do that you'll forever have cheated to do. Even if you don't use savestates in your next "run", you'll *still* be using knowledge acquired with savestates, and that can't be undone, and doing that is precisely why you're not really learning anything, if you were really learning you wouldn't need savestates in the next game.
>>11236764the entire point of playing a game is to have fun
>>11236764that's just a retarded cope you use for playing worse than people who optimize states for learning, as long as you don't use states in a run no one cares, it's the same as using password or level selects to practice a certain stage.
depends what i'm doingam i trying to practice a super metroid speedrunning trick, or something else that's really fucking hard? then yes, i obviously go so far as bind reload state to a controller buttondo i have to take an abrupt break and i can't normally save? a lot of android games straight up have a quicksave feature for this exact situation, so that's fine tooalso, i did a shit ton of romhacking to ff6, even though i never released anything, so i used save states to thoroughly bug test whatever the fuck i just hex editedotherwise, no, not really
also, while i've never made one, TAS is cool as shit, and you're basically save stating every goddamn frame to do that
>>11236476>>11236504>limited continuesJust use a game genie at that point it's no different.
My savestates number in the hundreds per game. Yet in many games I don't even load state, they are there. Just in case. I even savestated in a demo (not the game kind) and spreadsheet software. I can't stop saving.
>>11236834So you're an emotional support save stater too huh... The only states are ever load are the ones I make when I stop playing and turn off the device but I still save after every level for no reason.
>>11236126>he doesn't know about early - current save file corruption.It's just another backup, and a more precise save point that can be recalled on loading the rom into memory(now using other people's save states or even downloading them to bypass hard sections , yes at that point I agree).
>>11236765Nta but fun comes from overcoming the challenge fairly.Everything else is stimming.You have turned games into fidget toys.
>>11236764Also playing on any difficulty other than maximum is basically cheating and if you finish the game on a lower difficulty then you will NEVER legitimately beat the game.
>>11236040I'm pretty good at golf games so I spent a couple of weeks playing Mario golf on gbc, the first course I beat after about 3 tries and the next after a couple of days each. I think I spent 2 weeks trying casually to beat the 4th course, I even got 2nd one time. You need to be under 7 to win so if you miss about 3 shots you might as well restart. I didn't really want to play this anymore anyway so I just used a savestate before each hole, this was on an everdrive gb so real hardware an I really wanted to see if there was a 5th course which there is not.I think to do this for real the best way would be to write down the best approach for each hole as some holes have a bias to certain directions even accounting for wind.On Battletoads I used it to practice Rat Race and Terra Tubes, just about 10 times each which I think is fair as the early levels were becoming pretty boring to do over and over just to get 3 tries.In SMB 3 I will use a save state only after losing all my lives so it the equivalent of Mario All Stars or just leaving your console on all day.Most games I avoid save states except for stuff like Pokemon on genesis.>>11236548And then reviewers complain you can credit feed to the end. Its supposed to be like an arcade experience at home but a lot of new players have never played an arcade game. Many people were just happy to not put in coins anymore.>>11236126For a really game good it would be an absolute waste. If someone plays the Castlevania trilogy using save states for the hard bits then they have just ruined one of the best gaming experiences you can have. No more olde style Castlevania games are coming out so you just ruined an experience you can't get back.I recently beat Castlevania adventure on gb and was so glad to have not used save states, once you figure out the levels its easy and the fun part is finding out how and having that fear that its your last life make its way more fun.
>>11236976>Pokemon on genesisWhat?
>>11236960>fun comes from [entirely subjective opinion]lol
>>11236773>optimizeYou're talking like playing a game for you, a chore. Maybe if you truly learnt to get good you wouldn't feel that way, instead of using savestates to "learn" things you immediately unlearn after you checked the game off your list, instead of playing normally and learning things that would allow you to never even feel the need to use savestates in the next games you play. That's the thing savestaters don't realize, the real "optimization" is picking up skills that makes savestates irrelevant and useless, something you'll never learn for as long as you use savestates.
>>11237012a basic pirate platform game with pokemon graphics, the physics are basic but it has good graphics and music. If you a goodset for gen search for unl files and play the ones with F1 as they have been fixed.something like Pocket Monsters 2 (Unl) [f1].gen
>>11237028How do you derive fun from games in any other ways that aren't just audio-visual stimulation or story which are better done I'm other mediums?What makes games unique as a medium is the sense of accomplishment.Please explain how you have fun with games.
depends on game.if the game has no decent save system and you have to go back to the start of the game fuck it save state. but donkey kong country for example there is no reason to be save stating in that.
>you didn't beated itOkay
SNES9XI think save staSNES9Xsave states are forSNES9Xfor pussies
Save states have made me play through and enjoy 10 times more games than I'd ever be able to if I tried to be a hardcore git gud player. The time it would take for me to go through all the Mega Man games with or without save states differs by hours and would prob burn me out
>>11237474But then you wouldn’t be a 40 year old skulleted diabetic permanently on the internet telling plebeians how weak and pathetic they are for not playing as many 30 year old video games “the right way”.
>>11236071Every game ever made should have a suspend function. Bolting that on as an aftermarket improvement is utterly 1000% legitimate
>>11237484If you weren’t able to play the game uninterrupted you didn’t beat the game.Video games are 40 minutes long.
>>11236746there is no skill in life that works like this. every elite individual optimizes practice.
You are supposed to play the game as intended: as a little Japanese kid. You are doing it all wrong.
>>11237491Video games are 40 minutes long. If you can’t handle replaying the game to get good then you didn’t beat the game.What’s it like being a pathetic dickless weakling? The only thing you’re optimizing is the amount of cum you can gargle kek.
>>11237035people enjoy novel challenge, they enjoy figuring things out. there is something to be said for optimizing an early level but at a certain point the novelty is exhausted and you're just going through a tiresome routine, this point will be reached well before the completion of a limited continue game for most people. a grading system where you could get triple SSS's for a level and then move on would be a better format for mastery.
>>11237494I have a penis.
>>11237474savestating in level based games doesn't save me that much time.
>>11237507In your mouth. Because you didn’t beat the game you beta male loser.
>>11237035You are just projecting your insecurities and shit playing, most of the best players use save-states for practice.
>>11237492>spreading misinformationThe Japanese could never win this game, nor can you. Give it a shot.
>>11236043Normal people use save states and fast forward and don't go through mental gymnastics to justify it, because they don't care. They play games to have fun, and that's how they have fun playing them.
>>11236040i dont use them. i dont care how you play the game
>>11236040>You're not 10 years old anymore> The older you get, the more valuable your remaining time becomes> you want to complete some of those games from your childhood>Your reflexes are no where near as good as they were when you were 10 as well Just save state and enjoy life.
>>11238141>good thing I don't care about autistic tranny opinions on 4chanSure you do. Every time someone correctly points out that they "didn't beat the game" you get a bunch of "don't carers" here to aggressively claim beating a half hour long game is for an impossible task for anyone who has a life and that cheating totally counts and is valid. People who use cheat codes to win don't try and justify it, they know they aren't good enough to beat it. Only save staters have this need to somehow validate their cheating and insult anyone who correctly points out they didn't beat the game.If save starters owned that they aren't good enough to beat it, didn't try and blame the game, whine about artificial difficulty or how little time they have to replay a half hour game, then they truly wouldn't care and wouldn't lash out.The so called anti save stater usually says, play how you want but you didn't beat the game and it always brings a long thread of whining and justifications, ie caring.
>>11238179Nobody gonna read that blogKeep crying at how people enjoy their games though
>>11238179>Every time someone correctly points out that they "didn't beat the game" >correctlystopped reading right there
>>11238215>Nobody gonna read that blogYou can't even make it through a couple of paragraphs without giving up, no wonder you use save states.
>>11238237Save states save time skipping loading screens and main menu/logos, not skip game content you fucking retard
This might legitimately be the most autistic board on 4chan
>>11238162>you want to complete some of these games from your childhoodSavestatefags view games as a checklist.
>>11238335> Experiencing wide-range of games is le badlet me guess, you play the same 3 games you played on N64 and do daily speedruns of them since the 90s while pretending you are a le epic real gamer, right/?
>>11236472>>11236475As a backlog gamer, honestly I used to really be into mastering every game and squeezing as much content as possible. But then you wind up just having more experience with games and realizing that they're not all worth the effort. Generally speaking, you can "get" a game and its gimmicks roughly 2-3 hours into it, if not sooner, so if the game isn't incredibly gripping you just lose interest. When it comes to difficulty, you'll eventually have that ONE game you compare everything too. "Ah, this is kinda hard, but not as hard as THAT game," and then you're able to roughly gauge "With this level of difficulty, I think it will probably take me like X tries over Y hours" and then you're just able to think "Eh. The 'reward' of conquering this won't be worth the effort. I'm just gonna switch the difficulty down cause I'm curious how the story ends."Getting old sucks.
>>11236040They are good, and you can't came to Rommania to stopping me from use them.
>>11236043
>>11236040It's makes sad pathetic niggers that actually still use this dying board seethe, so I'm all for them.
>>11236040It's fine, whatever.
>>11238426You can experience a wide range of games without viewing games as something to be checked off a list.
>>11236126>>11236472What if you just don't like to be challenged when playing games?
>>11238179>People who use cheat codes to win don't try and justify it, they know they aren't good enough to beat it. It's not about being good enough, it's about winning. I cheat all the time, including in multiplayer. A win is a win is a win, how you get it should only bother you if you actually care about fairness.
have any of you ever considered when you put your computer into sleep mode for windows, you're just save stating your whole fucking computer?maybe if you looked at that way, it wouldn't piss you off
>>11238545Then I don't understand why you like games.Other mediums do everything else better.
>>11238760You say that but every Kirby game sells gangbusters and they're easy as shit.
>>11238771They're for babies and women.They're supposed to be challenging for their target audience.
>>11238897I don't think so, I think Sakurai goes out of his way to make the games comfy instead of hard. Otherwise why put so much effort into making controls that are so seamlessly responsible in each game?
>>11238939Hackurai is the biggest hack in the gaming industry beyond all comprehension that his completely fucking stupid melee ruleset where whoever did the damage that knocks them off the stage that gets the kill, absolutely no one plays it. even the casuals just automatically go to stockssbm was great, and he decided to take a great game and add random tripping. end of discussion. smash sells copies on the concept of being a kitchen sink video game fighter and that's it. barring smash 64 and melee, the game is straight garbage to anyone who has so much as an intermediate level of skill
don't even get me started on the smash balls. they're the worst fucking idea ever, an item that gets knocked around randomly until someone finally pops it, then they might have a godly super attack, or something absolutely fucking uselessproject m was doing shit the right way. they were leaving everything that was already known to be good in melee left totally alone, and were raising the floor on the low tier characters, instead of just gutting everyone who was useful
>>11237474Why the hell would you savestate in Mega Man of all games? Levels are short as fuck and stay cleared once you beat them for the first time, and a game over boots you back to the stage select where you can try your hand at something else.It's like every system in it is designed to be anit-savestate.
>>11238939Good controls with no challenges to overcome with those controls are a waste.Gonna say it again, but at that point you may as well just fondle a fidget cube and watch pretty imagery on a screen
>>11239146Even the passwords in mega man aren't that bad, but anyone who uses a save state in the middle of a mega man stage should be euthanized.
What's the Save State purists verdict on arcade games?If I use more than 1 credit did I beat the game?
>>112392341cc > limited (~3) credits >> free creditfeeding with checkpoints >>> free creditfeeding without checkpoints >= save-states
>>11236040I don't give a shit about the whole "you didn't beat it" meme but I will say that when I first got into emulation I found myself abusing save states so much that by the time I finished a game I couldn't actually remember anything about it. Felt like I was turning a lot of classic games into just a checklist for the sake of saying I technically played them. Like watching a movie at x5 speed on mute counts as technically having watched it. Started having a lot more fun when playing the games by its rules than making my own. Nowadays the only emulation tools I'll use is fast forward for more repetitive situations, unskipabble cutscenes I've already seen or loading screens.
>>11239264>fast forward for more repetitive situations, unskipabble cutscenes I've already seen or loading screensstill cheating
save states are just for lads that want to complete something in multiple sittings and that's the only exception I'll ever make to saves. otherwise just finish the game. there's a reason rpgs have saves.
>>11239314I'm sorry I'm not holding forward for 10 minutes straight.
>>11239328cheater
>>11239234I think it's good to just cast away the binary "beat the game" criteria with arcade games. You can 1cc them, you can 2cc them, you can 100cc them, you can reset and play the 1st stage repeatedly 500 times. That's really the only info that tells you anything, and just saying "yeah I played that game" is nearly as meaningful anyway
YOU. DIDN'T. BEAT. THE. GAME.
>>11239336>STOP CHEATING>BY THE WAY CHAT WHERE DO I GO NOW???>-mike matei
>>11236040yes
Plebs: see Bios intro -> see company logo -> see 2nd company logo -> see disclaimer -> see game intro video -> main menu -> load game -> reading memory card -> loading game -> game starts from savepointgigachads: press load state -> game instantly stats where they left off
>>11239080>>11239085But I'm talking about his work in making Kirby games?
>>11239476That's pretty much what save states where used back in the C64 days.You'd capture the memory after everything got loaded and the game actually starts to a special cartridge.
>>11236040Yes, I use Save StatesYes, I use Game shark Yes, I use all the itemsYes, I use GuidesYes, I watch YouTube walkthroughs tooYes, I force reset tooNo, I won't stop
>>11236040Never use them.
>>11236731>RPG grindslopForget savestates, use cheats to edit your stats
>>11236040Objectively, who cares. On a personal rule, I refuse to use them if I haven't played through a game once as is. After that, save states all day.
>>11236040I think its pathetic how much people argue about them. Policing how other people play a single player game is stupid.
I think that you should play games in whatever manner maximizes your enjoyment, seeing as to how they are a leisure activity.
>>11238760Games provide interactivity. Other mediums don't. Some people like to powertrip when they play games.
>>11238262Speaking as a literal autist, this is true.
>>11239479Kirby's not fucking balanced eitherPlasma Wisp hepler is god, there's really no reason for anyone in Kirby Super Star to be anyone but him in arena
>>11240554Powertripping just means overcoming easy challenges. It's still overcoming challenges.Feeling powerful in game is a good feeling and even better when earned with skill.Feeling powerful with tools external to the game can be fun, but if you abuse this and it becomes a crutch, then you risk robbing yourself of the most meaningful feeling you can get from games.
>>11240447Policing implies external consequences.All that's happening here is people saying the truth that abusing save states cheapens the experience while the other side seethes and copes.What is sad is seeing people in denial.
>>11239816The only honest poster in this thread
>>11240925>Policing implies external consequences.It's called a turn of phrase, you pedantic autist.
>>11240947A turn of phrase that means I care about how anyone plays games, which I don't.I care about how I play games and stating why I do so causes others to have a meltdown.
>>11240967When you say "have a meltdown", are you talking about an actual nuclear reactor collapsing or are you acknowledging that metaphorical expressions exist?
>>11240914>Feeling powerful with tools external to the game can be fun, but if you abuse this and it becomes a crutch, then you risk robbing yourself of the most meaningful feeling you can get from games.You may care about this, but that doesn't mean everyone else does.>>11239816Based AF
>>11239146>>11239230Well, when I said Mega Man games I meant all games and that means that save states saved me from a lot of hassle in Mega Man X5 with its timed shit, and Mega Man X6 with nightmare level shit. Also, the Mega Man Z games saved up alot of time with getting the highest ranks. Last but not least, yes, the OG MM games had short levels and passwords, but I rather press a load save state button if I'm retarded and accidentally fall into a pit instead of "challenging myself" for one innocent fuck up
>>11239351I hate how he pauses the games every 10 seconds to talk about some nonsense shit
>>11241180You can derail his whole stream by finding his buttons.
>>11238545I don't really have a problem with it but you're invalidating your own opinion."You didn't beat the game" isn't about bragging rights. It's about having a basis for what you say.My brother-in-law dropped Phoenix Wright recently, part of the way through case 1-2.He very literally did not beat the game.If he tried to criticize the game, everything he said would be invalid, because he doesn't know anything about the game, because he didn't beat the game. You can't critique story you haven't read. You can't judge a level you don't know how to beat.If you haven't beaten a game yet, you don't have the context to judge it yet.Context changes everything. My brother-in-law was less than an hour away from the part where the breast expansion ghost first appears when he gave up. I imagine that would have swayed his opinion in one direction or the other.When you abuse save states to avoid challenge, you are not experiencing the game in context.Using save states to avoid tedium is fine. Nobody has a problem with that.By all means, use the features of your emulator to bypass writing down passwords and skip unskippable cutscenes you've already watched. That is why those features exist.Do not abuse them to skulk past challenges you are not skilled enough to overcome.The creator of the game put those challenges there for a reason. If you respect the creator, do your best to beat the challenge fair and square. Maybe they're trying to tell you something. Maybe there's a clever tactic you haven't found yet. Maybe it's easier than it looks.If you don't respect the creator enough to do that, play a different game! There are piles of great games, easy ones too. Don't cut up a game into pieces like a fucking scrapbook, just play it normally.Or don't! I don't care. Do what you want.But don't complain to me that you "didn't get" a classic game. Your opinion is worthless. You pressed the "don't have any fun" button and didn't have fun. Don't act surprised.
>>11241612This. Savestatefags say shit like "X is objectively bad" when they haven't even tried overcoming X legitimately and never understand the point of X as a result.
>>11239476Patience.
Why yes I would like to start right where I left off, thank you.
>>11241873Could've been a 11/10 game if you weren't such a pussy. Sad!
>>11236043>le way its intendedare you also playing on original hardware and a crt? no? shut up then faggot
>>11242024nta, but I do both of those things.save states are tempting, so I prefer to not give myself the option.but mostly I just like the hardware and the display technology it works best with.
>>11241873why did the jannies delete this?
>>11236043>Retro game re-release has savestate options includedSee ya.
>>11241803This is more like leaving a console on honestly.
>>11242024are you also playing in 1995 as a japanese child? no? shut up then faggot
>>11236040awesome if you're past 18
I use them all the time.
>>11236052SPENDING 7 MINUTES TO ENTER A GOEMON PASSWORD IS PART OF THE EXPERIENCEYOU DIDNT BEAT THE MOTHER FUCKING GAMEI'm obviously kidding but some passwords are so bad man
>>11236043Normal people use save states.
I acknowledge this is an engagement farming thread that an Amazon employee put out to collect data on 4chan users, but I actually was thinking about something in relation to the Save States argument lately: What if someone used save states to make the game harder? Is it still not considered 'beating the game?'Example, I was playing Ghosts n' Goblins arcade on an emulator and wanted to see if I could 1cc it, and to skip the long intro screen whenever I lost my lives I just put a savestate at the beginning. I forgot that there were also halfway checkpoints and I couldn't be assed to actually remember where they were, so I just didn't save there and would only save at the beginning of levels. Whenever I died, I would just start at the beginning again until I lost everything. I effectively made the game harder, still technically going against 'developer intentions.' Disregard whether or not this is a retarded way to play the game and if I am a faggot, would the use of save states here still be looked down upon as it's not the 'correct way?'
>>11239234Save states are for practicing sections to try to do 1 cc's. It cuts down the practice time considerably if you don't have to play to early easy levels over and over.
>>11243372Probably not because perceived skill/power impresses dumb people, i.e. gamers.
>>11243085>normies begone REEEEE
>>11242024Hardware and CRTs cost money.Not abusing save states is free.
>>11236126hey, define guideyou could go and ask your classmate, your friend, you neighbour "hey did you play this game? do you know what to do here?? tell me, or give me a TIP". you couldnt even know the language or what certain words meant, so you ask an older person, a family member, to tell you what that word meant, saving you the troubleetcetcetchell, if you already know the franchise you already have basic understanding of how the game works, instead of experiencing a true, real and authentic first and clueless experienceso, define guides
I unabashedly use them whenever I want.No, I don't do a hard-line savescum like trying to get through a dungeon I was too stupid to prepare for. I can take the L. Some people can't though. And so long as those faggots aren't ruining my fun, I don't care what they do.
>>11243372As a general rule of thumb, as long as you're having fun and striving to improve, you're doing the right thing.If you change the rules of the game and hate it, you lose your right to complain, but as long as you're enjoying your experience, it's not my place or the creator's or anyone's to tell you you're playing the game "wrong".Just "having fun" is kind of an empty experience though. No matter how good a game is, if you're so skilled you can snooze through it, it'll get boring. It's your responsibility as a player to challenge yourself. Fun is good, but the true joy of gaming comes from watching yourself grow and improve until you've achieved total mastery.In your case it sounds like you fulfilled both halves of the equation, so I'd say you're clean.That being said, I think 1CCs and save states don't mix.The point of a 1CC is beating the game under a strict set of conditions. Using save states to loosen those conditions is defeating the purpose.If you're committing to a 1CC, I'd strongly recommend avoiding ALL outside help. Ideally you should be playing totally blind, on standard or additionally stringent dip switch settings, and making use of no emulator or controller features beyond what is provided by the arcade cabinet.But really, the only person who can decide if you truly "beat the game" is you.If you can look in the mirror and proudly say that you rescued Princess Prin Prin fair and square, that's all that matters.
>>11236040I've grown to not mind them if it saves a lot of time from having to do a pretty easy trek back from the past I'm having trouble with.
>>11236463> You wouldn't fast-forward through the non-dialogue parts of a movie. What a great analogy. Movies aren't books you know?
>>11245686General advice is fine.>Hold Shift for focused movement.>Press MP + MK together to perform a universal overhead.>You don't need to get every Power Star to beat the game.There's nothing wrong with underlining the importance of a specific mechanic or aspect of the game to help a struggling player. This kind of information is usually present in the manual but might be overlooked.Specific advice is not fine.>If you stand in this corner, the boss can't hit you.>You can find the secret hidden sword by searching the tree stump outside of town.>You can get infinite lives in this level by abusing this glitch...Discovering secrets and developing techniques is part of the game. If you give a player this kind of information, you are playing the game for them as much as if you took the controller out of their hands.If a player is really desperate and is struggling so badly that they're considering dropping the game, with their permission, you can give them hints that will lead them to the right answer.>One of the townsfolk will tell you something important if you wait before talking to them.>Some items will only work if the protagonist uses them. If anyone else does, they won't have any effect.>That boss can only use that attack once, so if you can find a way to survive it, you won't have to worry about it again.However, this is an option of last resort. It's important that you structure the hint so that it doesn't just give the solution away. Point them in the right direction, but let them find the answer themself.
If a game like Megaman 7 tries to raise the difficulty so high in the final Wily pod, that it makes the rest of the game into a tutorial by comparison, I will use save states rather than either practice the game like a musical instrument, or quit the game leaving the end boss floating around in my mind. I kind of need it to avoid feeling like the games still taking up space in my head. Megaman 7 deserved it.
>>11245852how are cheat codes even meant to be "discovered" anyway?? hell how do you even know how to level select in sonic 1 if not because of a guide?sega genesis dbz buyu retsuuden. is it wrong to active the speed up orange sky cheat? the game is dull and boring without it. it is a cheat anyway, so is it bad? a cheat that improves the game?genesis' mortal kombat 1. was it meant to be played without blood?
>>11236040I save whenever I want, wherever I want, rewind, fast forward, and slow down, but I would never ever ever ever ever NEVER cheat.
>>11236040I avoid using them because, from my experience, when a difficult video game opens up after some time and patience, with a lot of failure and then a lot of practice, it's rewarding and often it's more fun than something easy and comfortable... even if those are also enjoyable from time to time. I'm still fine with them though, and even use them in a few titles from time to time, it's not a big deal.I'll often use them, maybe alongside cheat codes, if I'm struggling on a video game I don't think is worth the effort, but has enough appealing stuff to make me at least want to get to the end once.
>>11236040>>11236043I played it without back in the day because there weren’t any.But now I can emulate the shit out of it I will save state constantly. I save stated the shit out of it. I will never stop save stating. It’s super fun.Don’t like it? I don’t give a fuck. I save stated right before the end so I can beat the game constantly. I’m firing up that save state now and fast forwarding so I beat the game in one second.
>>11241612You're actually slightly, but significantly, off in your assessment. If you get some way into a thing and dislike it, you can have very valid thoughts on what you didn't like about it and why it was shit. I don't have to eat a plate of literal shit to know that it is shit.What you are TRYING to say is that your BIL would not have valid opinions on trying to improve the game for its fan base, because he is clearly not part of that fanbase and thus does not understand what the fanbase likes about it.
>>11236043FPBP.>>11236746Correct. Savestaters are just bruteforcing their way through the game. It's no wonder they complain about old games being badly desgined or having "artificial difficulty".
>>11236040It's simply cheating. If it upsets you, then you use savestates and care too much about wanting to feel like you didn't cheat the game. You cheated, and it's okay. Just get over it.
do whatever you want.but i will say that i had a point in time where it got bad enough that i was save stating almost every second and it made me start hating games.now at most i'll just use them at password screens.
>>11236043NORMAL PEOPLE MENTAL GYMNASTICS:>I play how I wantANTI-SAVESTATE MENTAL GYMNASTICS:>using save states is cheating, you can't do that>I don't care if it's an offline single-player non-competitive game, you should play according to my autistic standards>the developers wouldn't want you using save states either>nevermind all the games that let you save wherever you want or have quicksave/quickload hotkeys>you didn't beat the gameI use cheat engine too.
>>11249021>>I play how I wantgay, hedonistic mentality
I use them just to save time, like if i have to do something else, it saves me having to save the game and loading back to it later, i also sometimes save at the beginning of levels so i can retry fasteri dont use it mid-level to retry small sections since that takes away from the enjoyment of completing a level in one go as intended, but if you're that stuck that you would otherwise have to give up, then its your choice
>>11236040>ZSNESHome…
>>11245852>when someone tells you unprompted how to beat a boss and now you can never beat the game now that the information has entered your mind
>>11246081You look them up after you beat the game, obviously.You don't go looking for cheat codes before you beat the game. That would be cheating.
>>11236040how much fun did you have writing long and complex passwords?
>>11248673I firmly disagree. The value of an uninformed opinion is not only lesser, it is negative.If you have any respect at all for the people who make the games you play, you should withhold judgement at least until you reach the credits.What kind of person doesn't care enough about a game to finish it, but somehow does care enough about it to spout their opinion publicly? You would have to either be an idiot or in love with the sound of your own voice.Now, if you want to discuss some section of the game you did play, by all means, feel free. You won't have all of the context, but you should know enough to base an opinion on.It's when you cast judgement based on what you imagine parts of the game you didn't play MIGHT be like, that you become a useless asshat.I would also like to say that if you find yourself constantly dropping games, you are doing something very wrong. Either you're terrible at choosing what games to play, or you're terrible at choosing when to stop playing them.If you're absolutely certain that you will never, ever enjoy a game, then yes, you should drop it. But how did you get into that situation? Either you fundamentally misunderstood what kind of game you were playing, or the game's quality had to take an giant nosedive part of the way through. Those should both be very rare occurrences.Here's my advice: if you aren't having fun, instead of dropping a game forever, put it down for a while and come back. Wait a month, wait a year, the length isn't really important.Tastes change over time. Sometimes, you play too much of a game at once. Sometimes, you weren't ready for it yet. Honestly? Sometimes you're just in a bad mood and you project it onto the game. It happens to everyone.If you give a game a fourth, fifth chance, and your feelings still haven't budged, okay, maybe your opinion is worth something.But you can't just brush a game with your fingertips and understand it. Nobody can do that. Thinking you can is sheer arrogance.
>>11236040I only use them if the save system is unreasonable and it just wastes your time getting sent back far away and it's not difficult to get back to your original point. If the levels are intended to be hard, then I won't use them.
>>11251059>you should withhold judgement at least until you reach the credits.No, that's just simply not valuing your time and/or having poor pattern recognition. If you can't successfully identify a game is shit and not worth completing within the first 3 hours, I would actually suggest that your opinion is probably less informative since you probably aren't discerning enough to make any meaningful insight.
During day of my nephew's bar mitzvah, his father (my brother) slapped him when he learned he used save states, the reason being that games were designed to be difficult to lengthen playtime, which was vital to their developers' success, so that using save states is in effect robbing developers of 'the spirit of the money they would have earned had you bought the game from them'. My family is odd.
>>11251059>If you give a game a fourth, fifth chance, and your feelings still haven't budged, okay, maybe your opinion is worth something.Imagine needing to replay something you think is garbage half a dozen times just to be allowed to have your opinion on it be valuable and stuff. That's genuinely... quite ridiculous, anon.
>>11249294I agree too much hedonism is bad, especially if it comes to our responsibilities, but our hobbies we enjoy by ourselves? I don't see the issue of being at least a little hedonistic then.We should save our energy for responsibilities.
>>11236539This.Cheating was always fun as a kid and it sucks how it's looked down on now on single player titles, it doesn't really concern anyone else, so why would I stop myself from having some fun? I used to use cheat codes all of the time too, so much fun still.
I'll use save states on old games if it's just to save time. I could either put in a 60 character password to get back to where I was, or I could just load the save state that puts me at the same point in the game. It's a no brainer.
>>11251316I agree you can make a pretty good guess on whether you (yourself) would enjoy a game in under three hours, but unless the game is super short and you beat it, you aren't really in a position to tell other people that the game is bad and they shouldn't play it.Even things that seem like obvious issues like poor controls can be something you get used to as you spend more time with a game.>>11251479I value the opinions of people who beat the game. They have experience.I value the opinions of people who really wanted to enjoy the game, and tried their very best to have fun with it, but failed to. They also have experience.What do you have to offer me? You don't have any experience. You ran into one thing you didn't like and gave up immediately. Your opinion is less than useless to anyone with a serious interest in the game.
>>11236040"Thoughts?" or "What do we think about this?" is just thinly-veiled "Everyone fight for my amusement!"And in this case, it's over something pretty innocuous and not even /vr/ purist boomers would care about, but here we are at 200 posts. People really do just love fighting.
>>11253714>Even things that seem like obvious issues like poor controls can be something you get used to as you spend more time with a game.That doesn't mean the controls are good though. That just means you gave yourself stockholm's syndrome.
>>11236040If you use them, you don't actually beat the game. They are the same as using an Action Replay to beat a game.
>>11253763but if you're going to go back to that point anyway why does it matter
>>11253782Because you skip your endurance being challenged over the course of the game. Getting good at games means learning how to make less overall mistakes in a run in order to beat it.
>>11252942Fair enough, but I think games sort of hijack the part of the brain that gets satisfaction from progressing towards a goal and if you cheapen that progression it actually makes games less satisfying.You need the simulated suffering to have the simulated catharthis.Games are ultimately meaningless no matter what, but they can give you the illusion of meaning if you play them as intended and that's the best part about them.
>>11253782play a game for 10 minutesplay the same game for 1 hourplay the same game for 3 hoursyou think it's the same???fuckkng retard
it's 100% cheating but i get it. we have better shit to do than grind some video game. just don't brag to me if you beat a "hard game"
>>11236539>>11253362Cheating has never been the issue. It's people who pretend that it's not. Most of the arguments for save states can just as well be accomplished by a memory editor. The entire arguement about saving time also confuses me because like the whole point of playing games is to waste some time having fun, treating games like an efficient job you have to complete in so many hours especially if you're not even getting paid to do so is absolutely mind boggling. Then again, I think there's an abundance of "gamers" who never have and never will actually enjoy games and only play them because it's cool to do so, or they are literally brainwashed into it
>>11237421Quite a few games, even back in the day, are indeed fidget toys. The audiovisual experience is also a big part of what makes games appealing. If it was all about challenge then we could have simply stuck to Atari 2600 games forever.>>11236764 >>11237487 >>11238547 Also nice poisoning the well kek>>112382620% chance when /co/ exists. >>11238503At that point just youtube it. If a game isn't fun to play through without savestates then it won't be fun with savestates either, it'll just be like "Glad I didn't have to put up with that!" >>11238771Most Kirby games have optional challenges and they're not exactly braindead easy in the main game. Much easier than your average game but if they didn't have generous save & checkpoint systems you'd see that there's a bit of difficulty in there. >>11241612If you press the "Don't have fun button"... I'll be very surprised.>>11251059>or the game's quality had to take an giant nosedive part of the way throughAt first I thought, "By your own criteria you can't really make a judgment about that until you've beaten it, no?"But your last paragraph makes it all come together, overall solid and heartfelt opinion. There are times you can immediately decide that something is bad based on atrocious qualities or being boring, but when you're having fun but then decide it just becomes too bullshit, just take some time off and come back later; it's not necessarily a bad game. Not yet. Reserve your judgment.One day I WILL beat Osman without coin feeding. I feel like the game is genius art that I don't understand. Thanks anon.
>you didn't beat the electronic time waster toyWho gives a fuck? Even in non-cheating cases many games didn't let you save your progress in case you weren't a NEET child and had to step away for something, or had retarded-ass password systems. It's valid as a bookmark alone.
>>11255213I think it's fine as a substitute for passwords, but you only get to reload each save once.
>>11236842>save file corruptionran into this a long time ago. for that reason, i try to rely on emulated battery ram instead, when possible
>>11239328>you will watch ze cutseen and enjoy it
>>11236040It's cheating, but you have to consciously make the effort to make the save state. It's not the worst thing in the world. REWIND is an abomination.
>>11236440Eh. Save states definitely present their own challenge. You can definitely mess up pretty bad using save states in some games. Yes, you can use them to brute force a game, but at the end of the day you're still going to have to actually accomplish the task. A save state doesn't play the game for you.
>>11254086Anon. There is undoubtedly bullshit in some of these games. I really don't want to get caught up in monotonous, tedious BS while I'm playing my vidya. I'll put up with quite a bit of it, but when it becomes excessive, then I'm either dropping the game or I'm save stating around it if I can. A good example is Zelda 2. Game over sends you back to the palace with the sleeping Zelda. I really do think it's perfectly acceptable to save state on a palace start to bypass the walk of shame on game over. Some palaces are not that bad, but some suck really bad. Especially if you don't know the tricks to sustain yourself in the field. The second palace sucks a huge one because you don't have the hammer, so you gotta go through that freaking tunnel and I didn't have the heal spell for awhile, so I just wasn't gonna put myself through that. Eventually I got the heal spell and farmed some levels, got some items and it's not so bad.
>>11257038>Some palaces are not that bad, but some suck really bad. Especially if you don't know the tricks to sustain yourself in the field.This is a great argument against save states.Your supposed to learn those tricks on your own. That's part of the game. When getting to the dungeon is supposed to be a challenge and you skip that challenge what's stopping you from skipping any other challenges?Being punished for game overs makes dungeons more exciting.A game over is supposed to mean you really fucked up and you gotta go back. Way back.This modern attitude that a game that ever makes you lose progress is flawed for it is dumb.
>>11257686No, anon. It's all in your head. There is no special meaning in game over. These are games to be played, not jobs to be worked. I'm skipping the tedium not the challenge. You can argue that the tedium is the challenge until you're blue in the face, yet I'll just laugh at you. I have done that shit before and it gets old.
>>11257842You're blue, faggot.
>>11248859>It's simply cheating.there's no thing as cheating, each game has its own sets of rules, we have no obligation to follow them, that's why video games are so fun, you enjoy them in your own way, video games aren't supposed to be "the bigger dick competition", never was and will never will
>>11236040Save states are based! I've beaten hundreds of classic titles thanks to the save state function of emulators!
>>11236040Fuck the rulesI save and load whenever I want
I use them before "points of no return", in case i did something to fuck up my progress so i can go back and pick stuff i had forgotten or grind more if the boss was too difficult.
>>11259343If there are rules and you break them that is cheating. That's the definition of cheating and it's really easy to understand and objective.I never brag about beating games, but I just enjoy the sense of satisfaction I get from them and find it weird that others choose to deprive themselves of that and don't understand the motivation behind it. Everyone in this thread just goes "you enjoy them how you want" but does not have an answer for what there is to enjoy otherwise besides just frivolous stimulation.The distinction is between games being a time-waster with the illusion of meaning, or just a time-waster where you get some truly meaningless visual and tactile stimulation.Artistic mediums should make you feel real emotions, not just placate you with pretty colors on a screen.
>>11257038this, some games have just really bad game design and a savestate can fix that, dunno why people are so focused on "playing the game it was intended" when they fucking know that they could have a better gaming experience by getting rid of some objective flaws with savestatesI think people are too harch on savestates, you want to play the game as it's intended? fine, then go for the original resolution, do not use patch that puts the original 30 fps game into 60 and so on...
>>11259353>some games have just really bad game design and a savestate can fix thatyou are not qualified to make these sorts of judgments. this is pure cope.> you want to play the game as it's intended? fine, then go for the original resolution, do not use patch that puts the original 30 fps game into 60 and so on...yes
>>11259352>If there are rules and you break them that is cheating.that's not how it works, cheating is when you promised to play fair and you don't, you never signed any contract when buying a game that says that you should play the game the developpers intended, that's bullshit. If we follow your logic, speedruning tricks are cheating because the developpers never intended for you to shortcut the game with some glitches
>>11259360>you are not qualified to make these sorts of judgmentsI brought the game, I own the game, the game is my bitch, so if I decide to use savestate to not watch the same fucking cutscene on FFX before fighting a boss because those retards never included a "skip cutscene" button, you damn right I'm gonna use savestates
>>11259361If you look up and perform speedrunning tricks on your first time playing a game, you should end your life.Also the rules of the game are anything you can do in the game. Save states are external. Next you'll be telling me that game genies/sharks aren't cheating even though they are called cheat devices.I don't care that people cheat themselves, I just want to hear a good reason for it.I give even less of a shit what people do with games after completing them legitimately.They can dissect them and fuck with them as much as they want.
>>11259369>it's cheating because they call them "cheat devices", hurdur checkmate
>>11259368You can do whatever you like, yes.Also I will agree that unskippable cutscenes are bad.I thought you were talking about the design of zelda 2, which random fags on 4chan shouldn't feel justified fucking with.Once again, they can do whatever they like, but they shouldn't cope with>muh bad design
>>11259375you have to admit that zelda 2 is fucking retarded though, there was no excuse back then, imagine playing mario bros and you get killed at the last level, and the game puts you back to the begining, there's a reason no game do that anymore, I don't want to believe that when developers make a game they find it perfect and they would never want to improve on it again, if it was true there wouldn't be such a concept as remaster/remake. We have to accept that developpers are humans, and when creating games they can make objective flaws that just makes the experience worse, so it can be justified to use savestates on some instances because of bad game design
>>11259370The code is the rules of the game.The developer absolutely does not intend for players to alter the code of the game.Tacit contract.If you fuck with the code to overcome the challenges of the game, that is cheating.You can cheat all you want, just stop coping about it.Also, cheating after a legitimate play-through is a great way to get more value out of the game and I especially have no issue with this form of cheating.
>>11259383>The developer absolutely does not intend for players to alter the code of the game.who the fuck says that? Developpers aren't a monolith first of all, and second of all, if you consider video games as an art, there's a thousands of ways to consume and interpret art, so using safestate is one way of playing the game, there's no contrat and there's no rules dude, you own the game you can do whatever you want with it
>>11259381I don't admit zelda 2 is retarded.I had a great time with it.Modern mario lacks excitement precisely because it has lowered the stakes to being non-existent.Making games not cause any negative emotions has allowed them to become more popular, but has made them far worse.
>>11259391I never said challenge was bad, but there's a difference between a good challenge and fucking "oh you died, time to bring you back to point 0"
>>11259385You think developers designed something in the 80s and thought "well people will eventually just emulate it on their computer and be able to arbitrarily save wherever they want, so let's not worry about the design being good and purposeful"?
>>11259402Of course not, they just made some dumb mistakes on their games back then and I'm glad we can fix them a little with savestates nowdays that's all.
>>11259407I guess we just disagree about zelda 2 qualifying for that, because if you were talking about the 30 health thing in metroid, I would agree that's dumb. It just encourages you to waste your time farming health.I don't think old games are infallible, but I found zelda 2 to be pretty fair and fun to master.
>>11259412I guess that depends on the sensibilities of everyone, I had no issues with the health thing on metroid but I hated Zelda 2 "go back to the location 0" stuff, I can admit though that we can end up really lazy with savestates, I'm a culprit of that, especially on Rayman 1 lol, this shit is so hard I was savestating so often it felt like a fucking TAS work kek
>>11259419Yeah, I guess it's just hard for me to let myself get away with it.Can't separate what would be addressing a legitimate flaw with me just getting emotional and trying to cope that way or just being lazy.I don't like giving myself the option, so I like to play on original hardware.If I feel the game has a unforgivable flaw, I'll just stop playing it. I did that with Ninja Gaiden with the checkpointing on the final level. I just gave up.
>>11259439>If I feel the game has a unforgivable flaw, I'll just stop playing it.I get what you're saying, but imo that's why mods and savestates can save the day, for example, sonic 06 physics is fucking dogshit and I wouldn't finish the same as its current state, but when the sega fans (god bless them, they're the most loyal fanbase ever) fixed it with some mods improvement, I was finally able to enjoy the game as if I was playing a sort of sonic adventure 3. I mean, sometimes it's just little details that needs to be fixed to make a game great, I prefer to do it that way and finding out enjoyment rather than just giving up and puting the game to the trash, when a game has potential, it's a shame to just ignore it because you decided to set some arbitraty rules that says that you should absolutely play the way the developpers intended, that's my 2 cents
>>11236040Nothing wrong with it but you should probably lower your tone when talking to real players.
>>11259282That's all you got? Pathetic.
>>11259439Ninja Gaiden is the kind of game that is retarded to use save states on to brute force it. That game is perfect the way it is. If you want to use sace stares to just practice a level or boss, then that's different, but relying on save states to actually make progress is just shameful. That game is too good to ruin with save states. Especially since you get unlimited continues. I really do think it's fair to get sent back to Malth if you die in one of the three final boss fights. Besides, you could really use the practice running back to the end of 6-3. It's not like that game isn't fun as fuck to blast through. And if it isn't to you, then you need to get good or find another game.
>>11236040I use them in place of passwordsLike in a megaman game, I just save state at the last password screen
>>11259645The problem is that the part you're forced to repeat isn't particularly difficult so it just feels like a waste of time because you don't feel the pleasure of improving at that part since it's fairly easy to master.I would never use a save state to practice a boss, but it also sucks to only have a few cracks at a boss before you are sent back to waste more time.That's where ninja gaiden goes awry.I will beat it legit one day, but it has broken me once.
>>11259741>I would never use a save state to practice a bossWhy not?
It's funny how people will say, "This game sucks! They should have given you continues" but if you use save states to emulate the exact experience of having continues, you're a cheater and bad at games.
>>11236040Makes emulation vastly superior to muh reel hw
>>11260656Because I don't like cheating.
>lose all of my lives and get a game over>have to start from the very beginning of the game>start again saving lives and developing new strategies>suddenly the game gets more exciting>get a little further>game over>rinse repeat>having the time of my lifeSavestaters with fried dopamine receptors will never understand this feeling because they are too afraid of losing in a video game and want to get through them as fast as possible.Sad.
>>11236040I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
>>11262067This desu senpai but you gotta remember that niggas on vr and in general don't actually enjoy games, they just want to finish the checklist.
>>11261341So you don't emulate games unless you own them, then right? Because that's cheating.
>>11262110Cheating the law is more acceptable to me than cheating in games but they are different levels of analysis so your comment is dumb.I play games to have fun that feels rewarding so I don't want to cheapen my experience by cheating.
>>11236040I think the issue a lot of the people against save states have is that they seem to assume that any video game is inherently perfect or something, I don't think that just because the developer had a real intent with a BS part that makes it the ideal and only way of playing, that I have to agree with the developer. It's a single player experience, it's really not a big deal, it's not a sin or a principle...>>11262148>Cheating the law is more acceptable to me than cheating in gamesThis is the exaggeration I mean in my previous sentence.
>>11263687If you cheat a stupid, unenforceable law that doesn't hurt anyone except maybe a company that has put out a lazy cash-grab collection recently, I think that's better than cheating myself of fun.I understand the argument of old games not being perfect and being improvable, but I don't trust myself to make those judgment calls, especially in the heat of frustration, so I prefer to not have the option.
>>11236043I didn't beat the game. I suck, am a fake gamer, and should feel bad, however I will still post my thoughts on it on the internet and the only way you can stop me is to climb my 40 stage tower and defeat the many challenges within!
>>11263718I see, if you're talking specifically about ROMs and emulation when you mentioned the laws, and not other laws in general, then I agree, it really sucks that companies expect us to pay dozens of US$ for small ROM collections now.As for the save state point, I get it, I don't trust myself either, which is why I stop myself from it whenever I can, and usually I'm rewarded for it, but I'd be lying if I said that I'm always rewarded, and while I'm not a perfect judge, when we play enough video games, we get at least decent at predicting if it'll be worth it or not, often we just like an aspect of a video game, enough to want to experience it, but not enough to enjoy the whole thing, so we cheat. It's not a big deal.
>>11236043Canbyou add to that list..... I have beaten the game in the past, now I want to enjoy it when I can.Look, when I make it a 5th of Jack in and can no longer concentrate on level grinding, I like the save state option so I can pick up the next day when I am hungover to pass time.
It is not bad in certain circumstances such as bad design by the Devs of the time, if the game has a good save system this is not necessary
>>11236040If you're saving state on the title screen, it's a problem and you need to seek help.
>>11264518I do this sometimes.If there is a waiting time for the actual start then I’ll do it.Why should I wait.
>>11236040>Don't use save states- Start from the beginning or checkpoint- Have to sometimes go through a section before getting to the part you're struggling at- Spend unnecessary hours to get good>Using save states- You can try again to practice on parts you're struggling at- Get good at the game in less hours than getting good without save statesIt's all about using it as a learning resource, like strategy guides. And once you're confident in your abilities, then you can attempt the game without save states and claim you beat the game.
>>11264560>- Spend unnecessary hours to get goodWhat? Where?In my experience it usually just takes minutes to get back to the point you lost previously
>>11264561>Where?It will happen in a lot of ways. Get a game over, start from the beginning, and you have to go through the levels until you reach the part you're struggling at, or dying at a game means losing your power ups, and if said power ups are necessary to beat a boss, losing them by dying would lead to chain deaths, etc.
>>11264567Well-designed games shouldn't be played like this.Like if you play Castlevania like this you should be sterilized.
>>11264579I said IF power ups are necessary to beat a boss. In the case of the first Castlevania game, no subweapon runs are doable.
>>11264584Now that I think of it, this is another thing that you can do with save states: You can test out things on what's possible, like beating the bosses WITHOUT power ups.
>>11264590I think that's cool, but you shouldn't taint your first playthrough with abuse of external tools.
>>11236126t.
>>11236245sure, but what's wrong with playing a game not as intended?yea, it's more rewarding to play a hard section fully in one shot and pressing through mistakes. i also don't consider someone to have properly beaten a game if they abused savestates to do it, but at the end of the day, games are entertainment, and all that matters is if you're entertained, if there's a part you can't or simply don't want to pour more time into completing as intended, then it's better to cheese it and enjoy the rest of the game than drop it entirely. maybe come back to it later and have another go or whatever, its your leisure timebasically, there's an /intended/ way, but no /correct/ way. if you think they're synonymous, you'd also have to concede other unintended methods of play are incorrect as well, like speedrunning (where no speedrun/time trial mode is included as part of the game), any kind of mods (even basic things like widescreen hacks), glitches (outside of ones the developer knew about and intentionally didn't fix, which are hard to know for sure about), etc. and yea, i've seen people who are against for example glitch use in speedruns, and that's fine, too, i'm not saying you have to personally like it, either.
>>11254086>The entire arguement about saving time also confuses me because like the whole point of playing games is to waste some time having funit's not really a waste of time if you're having fun. if there's a section of a game you don't find fun, then why not skip over it in some way? who exactly is telling you "no, you have to suffer this part of the game because the devs put it in there"? ask any game dev and they'll tell you to enjoy it however the fuck you want to.
>>11240925i actually agree that save states cheapen the experience, but i'm still not against save statesas long as someone is aware that they cheapen the experience and should at least try to play the game normally first, then what they decide is up to themif you pick up a new game and just savestate the shit out of it any time you mess up, you're only hurting the experience for yourself, it won't feel nearly as rewarding to finish itit's like getting tired during sex and pulling out a vibrator, yea it finishes the job but you didn't quite do it on your own
>>11264615>What's wrong with playing a game not as intended?Nothing, but you only get to play a game for the first time once.When you use save states during your first playthrough, you're cheating yourself out of that experience.Second playthrough and after? Go nuts, nobody cares.
