This argument could be made for other genres like platformers or racing games but since I love retro fighters, I will talk about them.I miss the experimental nature of early 3D fighters. After playng SF2 and MK games some years, I was in awe with 3D fighters when they appeared. For the first time you could see the characters actually interacting like when one character grabbed another character you could see where they limbs went and what body part they did grab. Or when you kicked someone from the side, they would fly to the side relative to the applied force. Motion capturing actual mma moves became a thing. Fireballs were no longer needed.VF started with using realistic moves first. Tekken had "a button per limb" control scheme which would be impossible with mirrored 2D sprites and with Tekken 3's side steps, more cool 3D moves were added, like side throws or side submission holds. DoA pioneered a counter system, making matches flow like kung fu films. Tobal games went further with their grapple system: you cold grab an opponent and move him around on the ring or kick him whole holding his arms with yours.Next big thing was more realistic arenas: walls, steps, uneven surfaces, different stage hazards.VF, Tekken, DoA - all of them went for those when new hardware allowed them to. But even on old PS1 you had games which did experiment with bigger arenas like Ehrgeiz and Destrega. But soon after, everyone just stopped. VF4 went for simple square arenas with walls and VF5 was basically the same. Tekken 5 used the same VF4 arenas too. Muh competitive scene, online and outfits customization became the focus. Major 3D fighters stopped experimenting altogether. DoA is stale and basically dead. Tekken is forever a Tekken 5 rehash. VF has been dead for years and I am sure VF6 will be just VF4 rehash again with a focus "modern" features like some lobby with avatars and other crap. The genre is not exciting anymore.
I have missed a lot of other examples because of the post length limit, like Bushido Blade, or points system in Fighter's Destiny or breaking limbs in Garouden Breakblow, or the Buriki One controls.
>>11394430>Tekken is forever a Tekken 5 rehashThat's not true, now it's a Tekken 2 rehash with SF6 mechanics stitched on
>>11394430It's hard to talk about this on this board since 3D fighting games turned to shit with the 7th gen, but basically fighting games became entirely about competitive e-sports faggotry exclusively. Steps, uneven surfaces and hazards as you mentioned were removed because competitive faggotry requires everything to always be the same and you can't have one of the players having an advantage because he was in a certain part of the arenaNo more fun shit, no more crazy arenas, no more huge single player modes. Everything has to be about the tryhard competitive scene exclusivelyPic related is what fighting game players fight in now
I love early 3d fighters.
>>11394458It's honestly pretty depressing. It's not just fighting games really but they do seem to be the most obvious example. Esports really do ruin everything they touch. The worst part of it is that in addition to be balanced for pros rather than for people who want to have fun, they also became developed to be more exciting to WATCH than play because they see how big streaming shit got.
>>11394430The only "exciting" thing about VF was the fact it was hailed as the first of its kind. It may have wowed people in the 90s, but not today.VF6 will fail either way: keep it as stale as it is and no one will flock to it but the old guard, but modernize it with meters and comeback mechanics and you lose the old guard and thus the only two people who somehow still play these games after 1996.
>>11394587Even if you managed to miss both arcade VF2 and VF3, which were exciting both for their graphical fidelity and realism factor mentioned in op, they also are pretty good, addicting and deep games. I can only agree on VF6 with you.
>>11394612>Even if you managed to miss both arcade VF2 and VF3, which were exciting both for their graphical fidelity and realism factor mentioned in opI basically hinted at that here>The only "exciting" thing about VF was the fact it was hailed as the first of its kind. It may have wowed people in the 90s, but not today.
>>11394652What is your argument then? Nobody argued that people today should be wowed by 30 years old games. The topic is about the experimentation and conquering new frontiers that these games were known for.
>>11394657I'm saying it's not the 90s anymore. When you take away the presentation, all you get is a series of mid mashers.
>>11394667Is this a strawman argument or you just didn't read the op?
Everything about gaming today is stale and unexciting. All games following the same tired formula, and only once in a while you get some quirky indie to spice things up, which then causes a wave of copycats rendering another thing stale.5th gen was the most exciting time ever for video games. It will never be repeated, and future generations will never understand the appeal.
>>11394458Fucking this. We live in the era where people don't care about moving the industry forward anymore. It's all the same slop. Any 2024 game could be made in 2014 and even the graphics would be barely worse. But it a /v/ issue, not a /vr/ one. 90s 3D fighters are awesome.
>>11394678I'm just saying. Don't expect an inherently mid franchise like VF to get any attention.
>>11394612I am cautiously optimistic about VF6. At least the VF gameplay comes back. I can't stand how modern Tekken plays, even as a T2-T3-T4 fan. I only continue playing T8 for the characters.
Battle Arena Toshinden 3
>>11394751Based JP version poster.
>>11394768What's the difference?
>>11394458I do kinda like watching competitive fighting games but anytime they choose the Training Room as the backdrop I immediately lose interest.Interestingly enough, it's the Smash Bros series that actually tries to have the best of both worlds. They still have the gimmicks and extensive single player modes, but you can also turn all that stuff off if you want to do Fox only no items final destination. You can even turn all the levels into a final destination-esque stage which is a nice touch.
>>11394714>At least the VF gameplay comes backExpect them to pollute it with supers and shit, going by recent interviews.
>>11394458This
>>11394458Boring stages but then they bug out over shit like meters? There's no consistency with esports
VF is boring and VF6 will go in the other extremeTekken is a shell of its former self, which was a VF cloneDOA was never a good fighting game. Its overreliance on tits and ass made it so much of a joke that they just don't bother pretending it's a fighting game anymore.SC followed suit once it collaborated with hentai artists.
>Psychic Force>Bushido Bladewhat other "Fighting Games" that are really as far as you can get from your standard urban champions gameplay?
>>11394881>Tekken >VF clone How?
>>11394895Destrega
>>11394896VF came before Tekken, didn't it?
>>11394915I've asked how Tekken is a VF clone
>>11394895Heavy Metal GeomatrixNaruto Ultimate NinjaWWEThese aren't recommendations btw
>>11394931It is kind of true, Tekken 1 & 2 had some devs that worked on VF1 and it was said they wanted to make something similar but cooler or something
>>11394467>esports ruin everythingBased takeI miss games with deep 1player modes like tekken 3 or SFA3
>>11394430>Tekken is forever a Tekken 5 rehash.I fucking wish. Tekken is complete 2D wannabe slop now.
>>11394994Tekken 4 is my favorite just for diaper heihachi and the fight club level>3 is still best tekken though
>>11394972Yes, but they didn't make it a clone. I can easily name a dozen of literal VF clones which base their whole systems on VF fundamentals. Tekken started different right away. Only movemement can feel similar in early games.
>>11395010I didn't like Tekken 4 when it was new. I appreciate and find it very enjoyable now. Tekken 5 feels like a step back.
>>11395046But anon! We moved on to pretending to like 5DR. Get with the program!
>>11394704What annoys me is that Virtua Fighter will be every thing the so called pro players want out of a game but because it's not an attractive money game it will get completely ignored.
>>11394435>Buriki OneThey had it as a Evo Japan 2003 side eventhttps://www.youtube.com/live/DrLQK3eQnd8It's cool. I'd play more mma style games but real people as 'characters' is too boring. Those Pride FC games on PS2 were okayish.
>>11395041>Yes, but they didn't make it a clone. I can easily name a dozen of literal VF clones which base their whole systems on VF fundamentals. Tekken started different right away. Only movemement can feel similar in early games.Sega and Namco use to be rivals in the arcade era. Whenever one company had a hit game, the other company would come in and try to do their own spin on the same genre. This rivalry really apexed with Namco backing the Sony Playstation and Sega with the Sega Saturn. Tekken was Namco responding to Virtua Fighter's success. Daytona USA competing with Ridge Racer, Virtua Cop vs Time Crisis, etc. Because of lawsuits that Capcom had with other developers in the past over Street Fighter II clones. I think Namco were Sega were pretty careful to not copy each other outright. Virtua Fighter started the 3D fighting craze, Namco followed with Tekken, which did have some former AM2 developers (who worked on VF1) onboard with the development. The Virtua Fighter games were really also designed to be showcases for different Sega Arcade hardware. Virtua Fighter 1 showed off Model 1 arcade board, Virtua Fighter 2 was a showcase for the Model 2 board, Virtua Fighter 3 was one of the most technically impressive arcade games of 1996 and showcased off Model 3. While the Tekken games were geared more towards the PSX derivative arcade hardware. Though Tekken Tag Tournament was a showcase for the PS2 launch line-up.
>>11394751The original Battle Arena Toshinden was the first 3D fighter released for the PS1 in general. It was directly compared to Virtua Fighter 1 on the Sega Saturn. Battle Arena Toshinden did its own thing as a 3D fighting game, as it actually had full 3D movement and weapons based combat. It started its own sub genre of fighting games. The Soul Blade/ Calibur games just followed the Battle Arena Toshinden formula. Sega's Last Bronx was a Battle Arena clone. The original BAT series had its 5th gen jank, but I loved the first three games. The first one was all about boasting those PS1 transparencies and gouraud shading in comparison to the flat shadded polygons of VF1 on the Saturn.
>>11396919I actually knew the series from the first game, PC version because somehow they have it there. ran buttery smooth even on my lame ass machine. and I remember there's some weird stuff with the game playing at a certain frame rate that makes Ellis' special air kick deal absurdly high damage. also yeah really like the third game because of the colorful cast, especially Nagisa for obvious reason.
>>11396919>Sega's Last Bronx was a Battle Arena clone.>"both are 3D fighters with weapons, MUST BE A CLONE"FFS, you are as stupid as the dude above who called Tekken a VF clone. Maybe try to play the games instead of making your conclusions by looking at screenshots ot youtube videos? I am not talking about high level either, just check the basics and complete arcade ladded.
>>11396945>otor>laddedladderFuck, your stupidity is contagious
>>11396945People throw "X is a clone of Y" around way too liberally on /vr/. Only confirms that they didn't play X or Y or both.
>>11394770A lot, actually. The international version added things like a practice mode, time trial mode and survival mode (it seems at one point they were attempting to add a 3-vs-3 mode but it wasn't finished in time), but they also removed things like each character having their own unique weight and making blocking universal (so that blocking high or low no longer matters). The Japanese version only offers one player and versus modes and is pretty barebones, but the character weight and blocking mechanics are there. The weight feature means different characters hit walls and use wall counters at different speeds.
>>11396949I am pretty positive that Last Bronx is a VF2 clone though. With some added features like attack cancelling via guards. It's very different from Toshinden which is it's own thing, of course.
Speaking of VF clones, picrel is "we have VF3 at home".
>>11396972Forgot the pic
