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>>11439113
Kneel before its majesty, peasant.

The game isn't very replayable compared to other entries. I've noticed many people use randomizers now to "breathe new life into it" and this would insinuate that the game is fairly dead now.

>>11439116
None of the 3d Zeldas are very replayable.

>>11439113
It's still a really good game by today's standards I'd say. Even the best games today seem like they don't have the same amount of soul/passion put into it.

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tfw want to play another rando but no time.

>>11439113
>commands too much reverence?
Gotta say OP, I do appreciate you opted to use different words instead of the old and tired npc midwit drunning krugger "overrated" usage.
>It's probably the best retro game, but is it actually the best game outside retro gaming spaces?
Non-retro (pre-2000) games are objectively better than non retro (post-1999) ones, so yeah OoT is the king of retro games and obviously, easily better than anything non-retro.

Honestly, for a while I thought maybe I'm ignorant to value OOT so highly. Maybe I need to play more games.
But honestly, playing other games, does a lot to affirm how good OOT is. It's just very rare that a game captures the same fairy tale magic, while also being such an all around solid action-adventure.
Most WRPGs are kind of jank, most JRPGs are boring, most adventure games have overly obscure puzzle design meant to sell guidebooks.
Most games that tried to directly copy OOT just don't quite have it. Okami doesn't quite have it. Beyond Good and Evil doesn't quite have it. Legacy of Kane doesn't quite have it.

So, I dunno, if it's so shitty, and archaic, what game is better? Twilight Princess? Nah. Dark Souls? Not the same thing. Skyrim? Lmao, frankly.
The best actual contender for the crown of OOT is MM, which is a glorified expansion in the first place.

>>11439116
What a brain dead take.
>people have played this game so much that they're now using randomizers to continue playing with fresh perspective 30 years later
>that must be because it's a bad game

>>11439113
>Does anyone else think that Ocarina of Time commands too much reverence?
Yes.
>It was a good game when it came out
No. I never liked it.
>>11439121
One of the big reasons I dislike them all. Also the handheld ones.

>>11439113
Eh, I played it when it was new and wasn't impressed.

>>11439149
The least repayable Zelda is easily ALTTP. You can't even three hearts challenge that one.

>>11439140
You ever try Fable? I think it's better than OoT.

>>11439141
Some of you people jump through so many gymnastics to not acknowledge that a game is old now, that it obviously lacks newer things that people take for granted.

>>11439154
You can do many of the dungeons in different orders, and there's several more optional items than OoT even has. It can't be less replayable than OoT, logically. Even with a randomizer applied it still would outclass OoT in replayability, because the game is designed with more variation in mind.

>>11439160
Such as?

>>11439173
Crafting, and a big yellow line on the ground to tell you where to go.
Also, movement options that somehow went backwards and the game doesn't even have usable ladders, swimming, or ledge grappling, based on a lot of modern games I've played.

>>11439182
>ladders that are purely environmental decoration
Is there any worse level design than this?

>>11439182
>Crafting, and a big yellow line on the ground to tell you where to go.
Are you fucking kidding me?

>>11439206
Yes, he IS fucking kidding you. He was obviously being sarcastic and mocking modern games.

>>11439113
no not really, i replayed it last year and it still held up very well despite me playing the wii zeldas growing up and loving them. i do prefer majora's mask though, but it's not really a fair comparison since if it came out first it would be the lesser game due to having nothing to build off of. also to be fair in every zelda prior to this you didn't have to press a button to open a door, you just walked in it. i think a better idea would've been giving kokiri forest homes doors but y'know, hindsight and all that.

>>11439159
That game is about 5 hours long

>>11439173
>Such as?
case and point >>11439182 the two of you are oblivious

>>11439214
It's the same length as Ocarina of Time is, and you seem to be insinuating it's not good because it's short

>>11439256
>doesn't name which games we should be playing, or what is meant to be better about them
Is it the fact that the world is "fleshed out" with sidequests so boring I don't even want to do them, and little outposts where you climb a tower? Because I'm so done with all of that, honestly.

>>11439116
Randomizer sloppers are beyond help and it does not matter what game they apply it to. These are people who would rather try to squeeze blood from a stone than dare play anything new or different.

>>11439315
>slopposter calling anyone else beyond help
o i am laffin

>>11439206
>>11439256
Reminder that any time your good faith argument falls on deaf ears it's because this board is littered with people like this. I believe in most cases they are so traumatized that they are unable to read any post without taking offense before they even understand what they read. They just don't understand.
>>11439315
This has been the opposite of my experience. Pretty much anyone I've met irl who knows about randomizers and romhacks are diehard gamers who are enthusiastic about all kinds of games, old and new. The people who don't get it are the ones who's gaming hobby consists of playing an hour or two of their childhood favorites every year

>>11439315
You seem to understand, the game is touted as being perfect, and yet there's the need to get more out of it.

>>11439326
>>>11439256 (You)
are you really implying that I'm not "arguing" in good faith? Ironically you seem very quick to dismiss me, to lose sight of me.

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>>11439331
Which poster are you? This one >>11439160 ?

>>11439113
>Seething Doomfag lets Zelda live rent free in his head
https://desuarchive.org/vr/search/image/0vD39vrKk-FdJp3jjLErog/

>>11439329
Calling any game "perfect" will always be hyperbole. Doesn't mean it isn't also a very very good game though.
I can name a problem with OOT right now. There are too many rewards that are just money, and too little you would ever want to spend it on. there you go.
There are also too few genuine secrets, but this is a problem Zelda has been struggling with in literally every game since the original. Showing me exactly where the bombable walls are, doesn't make it fun to discover them. I guess in it's defense the gold Skultulas and heart pieces are there, for people who really want to scour every inch of the world.

>>11439113
>It's probably the best retro game, but is it actually the best game outside retro gaming spaces?
Are you suggesting retro games are worse than modern games?

>>11439113
No, I'd say it commands a proper amount of reverence.

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>>11439116
>>11439121
>>11439141
>>11439315
>The game isn't very replayable compared to other entries.
You tried this shit on /v/ already, shitposting spammer.
>>>/v/696865883
https://arch.b4k.co/v/search/filename/babbys%20first%20zelda.jpg/

Anyway the key takeaways from this thread should be that OoT is rated exactly as highly as it should be and that randomizers and romhacks are a fantastic way to enjoy classic games and one of the best parts of gaming in 2024. Corporations are done giving us masterpieces like Oot so we can make our own experiences rather than slurping up their shit

>>11439113
>It's probably the best retro game
Not even in the top 10 of its release year

>>11439159
that's a really funny joke and youre a really funny guy

>>11439159
Zelda and fable fans have too much overlap to pit against each other.

>>11439413
based as fuck and correct

>>11439418
Post your top 10 for that year then.

>>11439113
>It's probably the best retro game
>but dont like it
you could just not make a thread

>>11439429
Never got around to playing Fable. It could be a contender, though at a glance, I don't really Like Peter M as a figure, or find his sense of humour particularly amusing.
Does it actually play like Zelda? I always pinned it as more of a sandbox/ Elder Scrolls for kids.

>>11439556
>Does it actually play like Zelda? I always pinned it as more of a sandbox/ Elder Scrolls for kids.
Its an elder scrolls for kids.

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>>11439113
I do think Ocarina is somewhat overrated, but the list of games that are both as widely played as it is and better than it is essentially blank.
It's a popular, accessible, quality game, so it's unsurprising that it's one of the most acclaimed games of all time.

>>11439624
Yeah, that kind of sums it up. Not necessarily my favourite game of all time (and I really don't know what that is, these days, having experienced so many games).
But, it does a particular thing very well, and it's hard to come up with many games that beat it at that.

Zelda as a thing, is perfectly accessible, offers a little of basically everything video games have to offer (combat, puzzling, exploration, narrative, likable characters, good music and visual designs). It's pretty much the thing everyone should play when they're a kid, or getting into games for the first time. And OOT is arguably the best Zelda, or at least the quintessential one.

How many of these ducking threads do you insane cultists need? Talking about nothing but the same 5 games god what a sad existence

>>11439113
It’s the z targeting for combat that puts it over the edge imo.
I was never a big Zelda fan and didn’t really enjoy one until BotW.
I liked Shadows of the Empire way more than Ocarina growing up, but Nintendo was really good at mastering how to control a character in a 3D environment smoothly and z targeting is part of that.

>>11439556
It doesn't play like zelda with puzzles and key items. It's more of an action rpg but to a kid to whom Oot was the bible and was fully immersed in game worlds, it was zelda where you could kill the shop keeper.

i loved the original zelda, hated 2, loved lttp, didnt like ocarina. have tried playing it ~5 times but just end up losing interest. the titles i mentioned are pretty much all zelda is to me and i never really continued on with the series

>>11439857
BOTW and TOTK both are Trash the last Good Zelda game was Twilight Princess

>>11439113 (OP)
>Does anyone else think that Ocarina of Time commands too much reverence?
Yes. It is great and emotional, but not quite on the pedestal people put it on. Close though.
>Surely it's not that good anymore.
It's as good as it ever was. Your imagination and hope have faded,
>It's probably the best retro game, but is it actually the best game outside retro gaming spaces?
Oh hell naw. Gaming ended around 2005 IMO. I don't want microtransactions, voice acting, or social statements....
>best retro game
No. Just no. It's up there, but it's also slow and relies heavily on my nostalgia. Any FF game from the era blows it out of the water, and I didn't play them for years later so you can't say it's nostalgia.

>>11439113
yes it is wildly overrated. criticisms and flaws fall on deaf ears, and it is propped up by blind nostalgia and zealotry.

>>11439996
>zoomer
But it is slightly overrated, the story really is what holds it up but I do think the atmosphere was carried by the tech weakness at the time. If Nintendo really could of made it feel the way they wanted it would of been cartoony as all hell.

>>11439996
>criticisms and flaws fall on deaf ears
its because criticisms are all incorrect
>the game is easy you cant die!
not a flaw
>theres cutscenes and talking in the game
not a flaw
>its on a nintendron console so I hate it intrinsically!
not a flaw

>>11439996
Saying "uh, game is shit actually" just isn't the kind of criticism anyone respects.
I'll criticise the game. I've done that in this thread. I'm never going to be so much of a contrarian that I'd try to claim it's bad though.

>>11439113
It was the height of gaming, you are experiencing contrarianism either because you missed the boat to play it when it was new or you are a sony tard.

>>11439113
Ocarina suffers from what I'm calling "Pioneer Syndrome". OoT did everything so right, so uniquely, that every single game studio immediately copied everything from it after it was released. Over the years, what made OoT great became a fundamental part of the language of game design. So when we play it now, it's almost impossible to really appreciate it because it doesn't seem unique anymore.

Citizen Kane is a perfect example of Pioneer Syndrome. There is cinema before Kane, and there is cinema after Kane. But if you're living in a post-Kane world, you don't get the hype, because your entire world was built by Kane. You're not impressed by the montages because they're a fundamental part of the language of visual storytelling, to the point that they're almost cliche.

the thing is, people lose their minds and foam at the mouth simply from stating "its not perfect" or "its not the best". such statements do not say "its bad". they simply can not accept the notion that their precious game is less than perfect. it is unthinkable to them. they immediately assume that when you say "its not the best" that you mean "its bad". they refuse to hear any criticisms. the fact that you cant even say "its not the best" REGARDLESS of criticisms or even the POTENTIAL notion that it might be bad, is objective semantic PROOF that it is overrated. their own actions condemn themselves.

>>11440439
So in what aspects has it aged like milk?

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Millennial tendies in America went apeshit over this game because the N64 not only had few games but said games were expensive too. Consequently, this was the first 3D adventure game and the first remotely dark piece of media for many people growing up in the sort of Evangelical households where "damn" is considered as bad a word as "cunt". It is easy to see why it blew their minds, but this game would've been remembered as a mediocre title if it had come out on other platforms. I'm not sure why reverence for Pokemon and Ocarina became a full-on secular religion for millennials anyway when stuff like Mario 64 is far superior.

>>11440449
controls, menus, graphics, sound quality/design, combat, density of gameplay and interactivity, puzzle design, timing, QoL things like text speed and skippable dialogue boxes. pretty much every single aspect has been iterated upon and refined since then. the n64 may have been "cutting edge" and "revolutionary" at the time, but so was the musket. so was the model-T. they dont really hold up anymore and its laughable to claim that they are "the best", "flawless", or "prefect".

>>11440470
>pretty much every single aspect has been iterated upon and refined since then
In all those respects OoT was outdated on launch day

>>11440473
im not knowledgeable on the breadth of contemporary products and their quality of the time, so i wont agree or deny, but regardless, its age definitely shows since then.

>>11440470
That's a little on the vague side, Anon. Go deeper.
Because you make this claim, but I feel like even games that came after OoT like TP and Wind Waker stumble when it comes to pacing and dungeon design. TP has the mansion though, which is excellent, though its item usage is weak. WW has probably the best usage of items in combat, but all of the dungeons feel on par with child dungeons of OoT. Both TP and WW had the right idea with making the iron boots an item instead of equipment though.
What do you also mean by controls, exactly? Because the other 3D Zelda games follow the same template of OoT with auto-jumping, a permanent sword button, three item buttons, lock on, guarding with a shield, etc.

and what exactly do you mean by timing?

>>11440479
>other 3D Zelda games follow the same template of OoT with auto-jumping
and other 3d mario games follow the same template of how mario moves, but its inarguable that they have tighter (and less slidey) controls than mario64. im not talking about button layout, im talking about execution of character action.
>timing
things like how long the cutscene for the door locking or opening a chest is. the length of time that menus transition on the screen. going in and out of dialogue/conversation with characters. time between interactable entities. that sort of stuff.

>>11439113
OoT deserves its credit for inventing z-targeting at least.

>>11440482
I don't think comparing Mario 64 is a good call here. Because by your logic you should probably take a dump on the rest of the 3D Zeldas, in fact all of the things you just listed the other 3D Zeldas after OoT are guilty of, sometimes even moreso.
If your argument is just boiling down to comparing Mario 64 to Zelda, that's really misguided.

>>11440484
damn dude, your reading comprehension and literacy are abysmal.
all i said was that the game is really primitive, and every aspect of it has been iterated upon and refined since then. you asked "like what?" so i listed some. then you asked for some clarification, and i gave it. apparently clarification was too hard for you and you think im comparing mario to zelda instead of using it as a parallel illustration. maybe the concept of "how the character controls, responds, animates, and interacts with things" is too complex for you to understand. "same template" is irrelevant, because they literally FUNCTION better.

"these are things that are done better by later games"
its not a hard concept.
also, fun fact, i dont mean "done better by later ZELDA games", i mean "done better by later games IN GENERAL". im not isolating critique to its own franchise.

>>11440491
and all I'm doing is poking holes in your comparisons after you bring them when I asked you to go deeper. I also brought up how some of the later games in the series stumble where OoT did it a lot smoother. I feel like it's only sensible to compare Zelda games to themselves. Because at that point you're liable to veer way off course bringing up other random genres.

I personally don't even consider OoT to be the best game ever, but I'll argue it's still very much worth playing to this day, and still incredibly good.

>>11440495
you didnt poke any hole though. you're just illustrating your lack of understanding of basic concepts. its sad really. you ahve refuted nothing and poked zero holes. the fact that you think you've done literally ANYTHING to defend oot is laughably indicative of failed cognitive function.

>I also brought up how some of the later games in the series stumble where OoT did it a lot smoother.
your opinion of which dungeon is more fun/memorable is irrelevant.
>it's only sensible to compare Zelda games to themselves
while that can be done, to think its the ONLY way to compare things is pathetically narrow minded. im not surprised though.
>still very much worth playing
opinion, and im not arguing against that. im not saying that people cant have fun. im not saying that they cant enjoy it or have nostalgia for it. agreeing that it has flaws doesnt undo any of that either.
>and still incredibly good.
LMAO. yeah, like MAYBE if you're 8. i definitely wouldnt use the word "incredibly". these days its aggressively mediocre AT BEST.

>>11440505
>these days its aggressively mediocre AT BEST.
what's better than it that's not within the same series? name a game.

>>11440446
what's better? darksiders?

ocarina of time's legacy is more of an indictment of the industry than it is ocarina being perfect. there is depressingly little out there that fills the role between a linear combat simulator and an rpg.

>>11439981
>It's as good as it ever was. Your imagination and hope have faded
that's not how any of this works
>>11440439
>it is extremely primitive in all regards, and every single aspect of it has been refined and improved upon
this is how it actually works

>>11440479
>TP and Wind Waker stumble when it comes to pacing and dungeon design
they both have superior dungeons, TP for instance never even requires the use of more than one small key at a time, because of a more cohesive and organic design of the dungeon.
TP has approximately identical pacing to OoT even, it's just that the game is three times longer, and it frontloads a bit more stuff than OoT does. Just remember, that it comes at the consequence of being halted dead in your tracks later to hear the Deku Tree relay a cutscene, and Princess Zelda relays a cutscene, I prefer the frontload of TP because it gets it out of the way, and the rest of the game is breakneck speed.

>>11440491
Spot on, anon. I've come to find that most people think "apples to oranges" when you compare games. They cannot into comparisons unless the games are almost identical. The people who have blind love for Ocarina of Time have admitted from time to time, that they've been looking for a game to "do everything OoT did better", and they wont take any game that did some things better, they are quick to dismiss those and continue prop up OoT. (as perfect, essentially)

>>11441319
>and they wont take any game that did some things better
there is nothing that doesn't obfuscate the core appeal of zelda to an extent that makes the comparison pointless.

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>>11439113
>Does anyone else think that Ocarina of Time commands too much reverence?
The game is a fraud and it mostly boils down to game design philosophy: you're not playing the game, it is playing you.

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Got recently the chance to play BotW, it makes me appreciate OoT more. WE are really living the kali yuga of videogames.

>>11441389
Huh, didn't now Forest Temple was shaped like that.

OoT is “The Beatles” of video games.
People say it’s just good just because they don’t want to hear the spergs rant at them.

>>11441319
Okay, but it's like a 25 year old game. Why has nothing manged to do everything better? even other Zelda games have struggled profusely. the one time they really tried to make OOT2, we got TP, and TP is just so flaccid in comparison.

Yeah, if you just want medieval sword action, you can play better games, but that's a fraction of the appeal of Zelda to begin with.

>>11440470
And you're really scraping the barrel, when you start critiquing things like slow text speeds (they aren't that slow, and you can skip with B).

>>11440452
>Consequently, this was the first 3D adventure game and the first remotely dark piece of media for many people growing up.
See, the problem with that argument is Goemon 64, and Turok Dinosaur hunter came out before OoT, just to name two games.

>>11441429
Few games and expensive games at that; N64 owners had to be very selective with their purchasing decisions.

>>11441407
Just like the Beatles were constantly called the "OoT" of music, but people didn't care back then.

>>11441463
People being sick of hearing about The Beatles has been a thing for as long as they’ve been around.

>>11441159
>>11441167
see, the fallacy that you clowns are trying to put forth is that something has to be in the same genre, delivering the same "package" of elements and experiences. im not about to get nitpicky and argue about specific games, and im not about to put forth some game from a different genre, only for you dipshits to smugly dismiss it. we're talking concepts here, and i dont have to put forth specific titles at all. if you are unfamiliar with games in general and can not recognize how primitive oot is and how every aspect of it has been improved upon since then, then you discredit yourself and there is no point in talking to you as you admit that you are beyond retarded and not worth anyone's time. you're trying to have a petty argument and deflect. im not playing that bullshit.

>>11441449
Plenty of people rented, or bought used. Like 90% of my N64 games were bought used.

>>11441509
So, Dark Souls, yeah? That's what you want to say.

I mean, Dark Souls doesn't even control better than OOT, really. Just trying to use a bow or throw a bomb in that game is so unnecessarily finicky.
And you need some arcane button combination to jump, instead of the artful simplicity of auto jumps, and you can't grapple ledges.

>>11439154
I get what you mean, but because >>11439162, I disagree.
To be fair, though, >>11439162 overstates playing dungeons in different orders. The first six (assuming you count the castle and tower as dungeons) must be played in order because you
• can't do the rest of the game without rescuing Zelda
• can't access desert dungeon without finishing the Eastern Palace dungeon
• can't access Death Mountain to do the Tower of Hera without finishing the desert dungeon
• can't access the castle tower without getting the Master Sword, which can't be gotten without beating the Tower of Hera
• can't access the dark world Eastern Palace dungeon without beating the castle tower
• can't access any other dark world dungeons without finishing the dark world Eastern Palace
And from there, I think it's still pretty fucking linear, which is why I say I understand >>11439154's point

>>11441407
this is a spot on comparison. the beatles are really only famous because of WHEN they did what they did. their actual quality is pretty low. same thing for oot, revolutionary at the time, but if somebody made the same thing now, nobody would give a shit.

>>11441526
The Beatles went from a simple boyband, to experimental psychedelic rock and performance art. They actually are remarkable and interesting as a cultural icon, and I'm not even really into them.

Who did the Beatles better than the Beatles? Fucking Blur?

>>11441319
>TP for instance never even requires the use of more than one small key at a time, because of a more cohesive and organic design of the dungeon.
Thank god I can disregard you relatively early on in your ranting

>>11441535
their music itself isnt very good or interesting. plenty of newer bands have greater technical skill, better sound, and more meaningful lyrics. i mean, sure, something like john lennon's "imagine" is incredibly meaningful (i know thats not "the beatles", not the point), but a lot of the beatles songs (like yellow submarine) are fucking slop. kind of like how zelda games are reknowned for their puzzles, but oot has "just look up. shoot the eye." as a "puzzle".

>>11439113
It's the only 3D game to most perfectly capture the feeling of a "grand adventure".

>world is not too big or too small, just right, with great variation of cramped areas, wide open spaces, metroidvania style secrets and strange locales
>gameplay is always varied - fighting, chatting, platforming, puzzle solving, looting, shooting, fishing. It's not just a "Kill everything" game, it's a true adventure where you live all the aspects of the hero's life.
>makes items matter in a way that has never been replicated. Unlike a shitty rpg where you loot 50 daggers with +1 damage, every single item expands your moveset / abilities / areas you can get to and feels significant.
>art direction lands the perfect balance of clean, visually clear simplicity, that can be sunny and happy and cute... or dark and mysterious and creepy. All highly expressive!
>pacing and scope are perfect, not too big or small. Always fun stuff to do and a nice mixture of go at your own pace and plot based push to move forward.

Lots of games do pieces of it better, but no other game threads the needle of so many elements as perfectly as OOT. It truly feels like a magical adventure to play from start to finish. It's probably the closest experience to a fairy tail in gaming, like one of the founding myths that will persist eternally.

>>11439140
Weirdly, Mega Man Legends is the only game that feels close, and it came out around the same time! It just perfectly balances shooter, platformer, light RPG elements, townsfolk / dialogue choice, inventory upgrades and an open world.

It's a shame I can't think of any modern games that have the perfect, digestible balance of Mega Man Legends or OOT.

>>11441178
this.
how has nobody since bridged the gap between adventure / platformer / action and rpg and even come close to OOT since then?

>>11441574
Harry Potter 1 for pc is the closest I can think that does those things. In fact is impressive the resemblance.

>>11441554
idk, some of their stuff kind of slaps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAe2Q_LhY8g
Like I say, not even a band I'm really into or have listened to very much, but there's more going on there than Yellow Submarine and I Am the Eggman (which is kind of what I assumed they were for most of my life).

>>11441647
So, what is the best game of all time?

>>11441520
>you need some arcane button combination to jump
???
>start running
>press jump button
>character jumps

>>11441651
in my opinion, thats a dogshit category anyway. too broad. however, i would probably think of tetris (im not about to argue versions. i dont give a fuck) for that. easy to pick up and play for anyone of any age or culture, cerebral, depth of skill expression. it is a wonderful GAME, and it still holds up today. chess also comes to mind as a fair option, but it was originally a physical game, not a video game.

however, again, thats just my opinion, and more importantly, entirely irrelevant. oot has enough flaws and is objectively primitive enough to discredit itself from being considered "10/10, perfect, flawless, greatest game ever made". it is objectively overrated. the higher than fans praise it, the harder they suck it off, the more THEY make it overrated.

>>11441672
You have to run, and press the left stick in, which feels like shit.

>>11441676
At this point, we have to deal with so many of you, that the game is underrated.
It seems to be quickly becoming consensus that MM or WW are better, and I'd say no, probably not really. But by claiming that a non-standard Zelda game is your favourite, you get to look interesting, and everyone wants to look interesting.

>>11441178
>there is depressingly little out there that fills the role between a linear combat simulator and an rpg.
Very true, there is even this section >>11441380
that feels more like its incorporating aspects of a visual novel, something the series moved very far away from. Zelda 64 even has those MGS style elements in the palace garden, it's the gaming equivalent to a variety show but there was never a real narrative there. So in conclusion Majora's Mask has rightly replaced Zelda 64, even though titles like Radiata Stories have them both beat. Zelda 64 is like those books on The History of Painting that include a little bit of everything over the course of millennia but don't really tell you anything, people who lack a sense of personal taste are going to cling the most to it.

>>11441676
>tetris is the best game ever
uh, maybe... feels like when people are asking about the best crafted game ever they're not really asking to hear about a russian folding sim but maybe about something more advanced than that.

>>11441686
The thing about MM is it has four dungeons, and the entire game is built on a gimmick of collecting masks, but a lot of the masks don't really do anything useful once you have them.
I dunno, is it better than OOT? Or is it just interesting on account of being exotic and different?

>>11441703
thats why i think the category is pretty stupid. its too broad. a broad category needs a broad appeal and solid foundation. it becomes reductive. complexity and nuance create avenues/variables for flaws and shortcomings and impossible comparisons. "best fighting game" is a very specific category. "best racing game" is a very specific category. comparing the winners of the two categories and going "but which one is the better game?" gets really muddy, really fast, and its fucking stupid. thats why i went for something very simple. something that stands the test of time. something with a pretty unshakable foundation. is it grandiose? no. is that relevant? i dont think so, BECAUSE it stands the test of time.

oot does not stand the test of time, but ootzealots blinded by nostalgia will argue otherwise. they lack any sort of objective analysis or critical thought. nostalgia is not an argument. "good at the time" is not an argument.

>>11441417
>Why has nothing manged to do everything better?
Because no game is trying to copy-paste the entire Ocarina of Time game. They focus on other things, and my point is simply you people are chasing the dragon. Nothing is going to live up to the nostalgia that has grandfathered in OoT into your memory banks.

>>11441551
Why would you dismiss it out right, do you disagree with the facts? What does Ocarina of Time do with its multiple keys
-it either has you guess a wrong door where you obtain a replacement key
-or it has you obtain several keys and use them all back to back to back on several subsequent locked doors

Twilight Princess evolved beyond the need to lock doors with just keys. Instead nearly every locked door in the game is locked via a puzzle to solve, instead.


You do a great disservice to yourself by plugging your ears, and I implore you to reason.

>>11441612
Especially Harry Potter 2 and 3, those are probably better than Ocarina of Time all things considered.

>>11441760
>even other zelda games dont do this.
Indeed, and you really need to take a step back and let it properly sink in, my dude.


>whats hilarious is that zelda games BEFORE oot were ALSO very different
Absolutely, and it will be a lot to realize that Ocarina of Time isn't a very good "Zelda game" in the same vein I've seen other people claim Breath of the Wild isn't a very good "Zelda game".. and what I find hilarious, is that what they want isn't "Zelda game" it's "Ocarina of Time" adjacent.

>>11439413
Meh, I like it but I'm too busy playing the ungodly amount of retro games to waste time randomizing the same game Ive played a dozen times already. Also, I'm not sure oot should be heralded as the king of retro games. What I find weird is all the games that people like to say are the greatest games ever, don't have designated jump buttons. Ffvii, mgs, oot. Why is this? Anyways, I'm not necessarily opposed to oot being seen as the goat, it just doesn't feel like it to me personally.

>>11441574
Well put. Time will never stop it from excelling at those things.
>>11441612
Really? I only had CoS for ps1 back in the day. I've always been pleasantly surprised by HP games so I will give that one a go on pc

>>11441706
>The thing about MM is it has four dungeons
four INCREDIBLY DESIGNED dungeons (five achtually) and an unforgettable cast of characters in one of the biggest cult titles ever released -- which just so happened to coincide thematically with the furor surrounding the end of the millennium, so for about two years everyone's Y2k convos reminded you of that title in particular. Maybe it doesn't retain much of the same flavour today but Majora's Mask was that platforms most successful story-based game. You're right though, the mask mechanic is too shallow and they should've stuck to the week-long concept being built into Majora's Mask DD but if it had been moved to the Cube they would've missed out on that pop cultural currency.

Ocarina of Time is not much more than a summation of the idylls of the lo-fi 1990's, MM best represents the epoch of the new millennium, but sadly nothing Nintendo did with Zelda became a relevant touchstone for the 'war on terror' era. The closest Zelda came to making Link a 2000's-era grunt was 'Four Swords'; the series never really made Link go rogue like Bond did in entries like 'Licence to Kill', 'Die Another Day', or 'No Time To Die because in a way he was always a rogue adventurer. Unlike with Mario, Zelda improves most when it takes recognition of a wider world.

>>11441726
I can respect that answer, it's easier to recommend Tetris than something that hasn't aged as well. Although I believe there are some aged-to-perfection epics and it's hard to imagine any Zelda title ever nipping at the heels of Suikoden II, FF VII, Radiata Stories, Dragon Quest VIII, etc.

>>11441789
>What I find weird is all the games that people like to say are the greatest games ever, don't have designated jump buttons. Ffvii, mgs, oot. Why is this?
That is odd. Even the harry potter games anons mentioned itt as being better than Oot don't have a jump button. One thing those games have in common is that they are grand adventures, and maybe straight platformers don't have that vibe.
I'm not in any way trying to project onto you, but I've noticed that since I stopped trying to tackle media as a backlog of chores to be completed, and started doing whatever feels right in the moment, be that quitting a game halfway to play another or replaying something for the hundredth time, I am having so much more fun. I feel like I'm having a renaissance of imagination at 30 yo. Again, I'm not saying that you are playing games like chores or doing anything wrong. Just leaking my thoughts.

>>11441824
>I am having so much more fun. I feel like I'm having a renaissance of imagination at 30 yo
But anon, I am doing this. I've been having more fun than I've had in years playing random games I never heard of. From amstrad to Xbox. Elevator action returns, gossun oyoyo, extreme downhill, shock troopers, bonks adventure, mountain king, dodonpachi, don pachi, silpheed, worms 3d, etc.. it goes on and on and yeah I drop games if I dont like them. I just feel burnt out on Zelda, maybe in a few years I'll check out a randomizer. I've been playing Zelda since I was a kid, I'm having to much fun exploring weird odd areas of gaming.

>>11441749
But TP was very openly trying to do OOT one better, and pretty much just failed across the board. It's a weaker game.

>>11440410
>Ocarina suffers from what I'm calling "Pioneer Syndrome"
Ocarina suffers from devwank syndrome, making a game for the devs rather than for the players.

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>>11440410
>your entire world was built by Kane

>>11439113
I don't even like this game and think it deserves #1 spot all time. My personal #1 console is ff7, but brood war is easily #1 game in general

>>11439113
Who gives a fuck? Why are you letting the opinions of journos booty blast you? Play what you want to play. Like what you want to like. Touch grass and eat ass

>>11442062
i wonder how many people feel that way about brood war. when it was fresh and popular, i remember some people just could not shut up about it, like it was the only game in existence. i know somebody that named their daughter kerrigan after the game, so including you that probably makes at least 2 people.

>>11439113
Alundra is a much better upgrade to the classic Zelda formula than Ocarina

>>11439882
Twilight Princess is a shit tier game for furries

-9/10, troll better, snoys.

>>11440410
OoT copied a lot though. Just like the original Zelda did. That series was a great example of grabbing good ideas and throwing them together properly. Not so much these days, I guess.

That isn't criticism though, which seems hard to get for some that will then want to discredit anything before it that ever gets brought up (and vice versa when they find out it isn't innovative). Something great is very rarely innovative as something that is new is generally not quite well enough understood to strike immediate gold (though in the case of Track & target the actual innovator kinda did). Sometimes other media is also only understood after the trendsetter breaks the mold and gets people out of their comfort zone.

>>11439113
It's ridiculous but if game journalists hadn't fixated on it they'd have randomly picked some other competent game of those few years to pretend was immaculate, so who really cares. It's a disease of pop criticism.

>>11440483
Z targeting is part of what kills the game and a blatant admission that going 3D was retarded.

>>11442281
I heard they made some difficulty tweaks bullshit for western releases, how true is that?

>>11442651
It is true. https://tcrf.net/Alundra

>"Monster difficulties were also rebalanced, generally to make a few of the bosses easier to kill. However, bosses were also made more dangerous in that if they managed to hit Alundra, their blows were much more lethal. This lessened some of the boredom of the later bosses, where they really weren't much challenge to fight, but took forever to kill."

Working designs did this shit pretty frequently.

>>11439116
>I've noticed many people use randomizers now to "breathe new life into it" and this would insinuate that the game is fairly dead now
One thing I keep hearing from fans is how they wish "they could play the game for the first time again". They're unwillingly admitting that something is wrong with the game at a fundamental level yet they cannot understand it.

>>11439121
You're absolutely right, but that's because most of them are built upon OoT.

>>11439113
Those claims are bullshit. N64 had been an atrocious console and most of its users were deep inside unsatisfied with it. Once they realized they weren’t getting big games from third parties anymore, they looked at Zelda as their only hope. It was their chance of having a game they could boast about. PSX owners, for the most part, couldn’t care less about N64s library except for maybe SM64, Goldeneye and Mario Kart. They needed to believe in Zelda OOT.
N64 was getting nothing but games about mascots and shallow action heroes. It had no games that took themselves seriously, everything was childish or frivolous. And it’s not as if everything must have artistic ambitions or be atmospheric, a lot of my favorite games barely have any plot and are only meant to be fun. But when absolutely everything is aimed at normies or little children, not even at preteens, and you’re not seven years old anymore… the lack of variety gets tiresome. They hoped Zelda OOT would be their FFVII. And even if Zelda OOT was still more childish than your standard jrpg, had still plain characters and a shitty plot, had still important flaws even for the standards of the time like the desertic map and the poor framerate, had mediocre puzzles compared to older games like Alundra or Lufia 2, had a mediocre battle system and wasn’t even particularly innovative, given that it took most of its ideas from Tomb Raider and Goemon 64… it was still the closest thing they had to all those PSX games that felt like big adventures.
And when you have a console with only a handful of good games, you can admit you made a bad a choice or you can start claiming those games were actually the second coming of Christ. The fact that Game Cube sold even less than N64 is pretty revealing.

You'd think this game raped peoples' childhoods going by the amount of grieving and obsessed butthurt circlejerking going on in this thread.
Case in point: >>11442967
Vidja gaems is serious business.

>>11442980
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOC3vixnj_0

>11442987
Bot post.

>the novels of cope people come out with to try to justify why "you didn't really have fun, and everything on the N64 was bad, actually"
You really sound mad that you didn't have one. I'm just saying.

It's okay. I'm mad I didn't get to go to arcades as a kid. Happens to all of us.

>>11442789
>"they could play the game for the first time again"
Precisely, the game lacks a certain oomph, and anything truly great about it is depleted in one go.

>>11439113
I liked it, but I don't really understand the hype.
Sure it's good, but it's not THAT good.

>>11442967
lmao autist

>>11439882
I’m indifferent towards Zelda games and have been for 30 years and don’t care for your opinions either.
BotW is the most fun I ever had with a zelder. I had far less fun with TotK because it’s bogged down by a gimmick I don’t care about, much like your opinion. It’s like Banjo Nuts and Bolts all over again.

Anyways, Ocarina deserves credit for the z-targeting system because of how transformative it was for third person action adventure games.

I still think Shadows of the Empire is better than Ocarina.

>>11439159
Fable is trash lmao u serious?

>>11442967
nobody believes anything you say, console war schizo.

>>11444205
>the game lacks a certain oomph
I do not believe it lacks that, on the contrary. The real issue is that like many Nintendo games since they went 3D, it's designed around the idea of surprise for the sake of surprise, plus the devs trying their damnedest to make sure the games are played the way THEY want you to (and more often than not shit gets really easy due to how linear and boring their designs are, starting with the unskippable custscenes red flag).

>>11439113
why did I think Navi was photoshopped to look like a penis for a second?

Its A Link to the Past 3D Majora was Superior

>>11444757
Too much porn.

>>11444767
>Its A Link to the Past 3D
OoT wishes it was ALttP.

>>11444797
Probably.

>>11444750
>it's designed around the idea of surprise for the sake of surprise
no, he's right, it DOES lack "oomph", because it was designed around the brand new gimmick of BEING in 3d. the "surprise" was that to solve the puzzle, you just look up. oh look, theres an eye to shoot. puzzle solved. it is extremely simple, but there are many such cases where the puzzle/problem is solved by just looking up/around BECAUSE 3d was something new to people. now its second nature.

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>>11441809
It's amazing how underrated the game is when it has everything in his favour to be popular. If you liked OoT there is no reason to skip this one.

>>11445004
>the "surprise" was that to solve the puzzle, you just look up. oh look, theres an eye to shoot. puzzle solved
That's exactly what I meant.

>>11444290
I wonder where this meme came from. Certainly not from people who have played Fable. I'll assume it's because there was a black guy in the trailer for the new one

>it's probably the best retro game
How so? I played it back then and I never thought it was anything special nor did any of my friends/family members. Only person I knew into was this super Zelda fangirl. You go online and everyone is yelling that it's the best. I've tried to play it and it struggles to keep my attention compared to even something okay like Legend of the Dragoon. Fuck, I had Toy Story 2 growing up and I had more fun playing that than this. When it comes to this game, it's like the whole gaming community is gaslighting me.

>>11444750
>>11445004
I think you both are on the same page, and I agree, with puzzles that informed 3D design - with the power of hindsight/ on subsequent replays, there's no wow factor.

>>11445317
>I had Toy Story 2 growing up and I had more fun playing that than this
Toy Story 2 is very impressive for a license game.

>>11439113
Combat is too slow.
Going from having multiple enemies on the screen (that die relatively quickly), you go into fighting 1 or 2 enemies, having to lock onto them, and the fights take longer.
Game is stupid.

I do think there's an untouched element of game craft coming from a historical process that was started a very long time before gaming-itself sleeping inside of Ocarina. You could feel raw technique emanating from Nintendo games that was in the process of refinement and digestibility to modern western tastes.
Ocarina of time is very important cultural catalyst between the mechanics of eastern and western cognition before it all become buried behind layers upon layers of normative non-localized global antithought

>>11446848
OoT is a regression next to the previous games.

>>11442967

>comparing garbage like alundra or unplayable trash like tomb raider to the GOAT

Fucking kek this cannot continue

>>11446995
>unplayable trash like tomb raider
Tomb Raider isn't even remotely unplayable.

>>11446995
I wouldn't call Alundra garbage. Really its only two faults are not utilizing the items you get to their fullest and the Working Designs version has fucked up balancing. But otherwise it's a perfectly servicable action adventure game with some nice art and excellent music.

>>11447037
Stellar counter argument.

>>11447074
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Roi2UelYGsU

>>11446995
GOAT how? it's not even better than A Link to the Past which was trash compared to the original LOZ

>>11447074
Link can do a backflip, but cannot jump forwards... Why?

>>11447087
This.

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>>11441554
>>11441526
>>11441407
the beatles are the evangelion of anime are the great gatsby of literature are the citizen kane of cinema are the ocarina of time of video games are the beach boys of pop music

what did i mean by that? what ties all of those things together? it's quite simple really. i don't know anything about them, nor was i sentient when they made their cultural impact, not to mention my imagination isn't developed enough to let me conceptualize a world before they existed, and you know i've never read anything that might have something substantial to say about whatever they contributed to their respective artistic mediums, like maybe any book, but i will post about how bad and overrated they are on a government worker forum anyway

>>11446984
The RPG qualities such as the exploration and having interesting people to talk to is really all it has going for it.
Combat feels so stiff and boring.

>>11447204
>The RPG qualities such as the exploration and having interesting people to talk to is really all it has going for it
These things already existed before in the franchise.
>Combat feels so stiff and boring
The moveset itself actually isn't bad at all, the issues are the Z target making 3D both pointless and problematic and the enemies being designed to be totally uninteresting time wasting annoyances to fight.

>>11447204
Compared to floaty ass whiffle bat combat in ALTTP?

>>11447092
He can do a forward jump?

>>11447280
We get it, you watched Egoraptor's Sequelitis. He's still wrong btw.

OoT was just a tech demo for Twilight Princess.

>>11439113
Honestly I feel this way. Don't get me wrong, I played it and enjoyed it a lot. I'd give it 9/10, good but with a few shortcomings here and there. The problem is, people in US seem to think this was 11/10, second coming of Christ and nothing else. Any time you even remotely imply something is wrong with it, people immediately get defensive and deny everything you say. It's not even possible to discuss this game objectively anymore, you either are a die-hard defender or anti-Nintendo, nothing in between.
Every time you bring it up, people keep saying it was unmatched in 1998. Ok, well it's not 1998 anymore. Plenty other games did big open world RPGs after it. Same with lock on, plenty other games pioneered control schemes, yet only OoT is praised so hard for it.
I feel like you had to be in that bubble where people only played on N64, and instead of PC everyone only played SM64, OOT, 007 and MK64, nothing else.
Lastly, again, don't get me wrong, but I consider Zelda community cringeworthy, all these manchildren with triforce t shirts and tattoos. Well, at least the games are good, so there's that.

>>11447196
well then maybe you shouldnt post, and let people that DO actually understand what they're talking about have their discussion.

>>11447458
The less wisdom you have , the more you believe yourself to perceive

this game wasn't unmatched in 1998. how is this game better than Half Life 1? it isn't.

>Good game is actually bad!
When did /vr/ become contrarian. It used to be the opposite of /v/

>>11447528
Those are completely different genres.

>>11447458
duhhhhh.....beatles were.... boy band....so what's so great about recording backwards sitars if coltrane can play giant steps while modulating between any scale at will? beagles were the justin bieber of their time....only little girls like them...... just like ocarina. of time? that is.... that is a game for old people.....and.....sorry but there are new games now? and they have more graphics? so whats the big deal? okay ocarina had z targeting but so did one or two other games before then so why does it all matter so much? maybe these is the overrated.... its.... theres too much positivity for this game... they need to type more kind words for banjo kazooie and king gizzard imo

>>11447542
>king gizzard
Come on dude, they're a soulless novelty act. Banjo is close to Oots level

>>11447196
Neon Genesis Evangelion is fucking awful, it's the worst anime ever made.

>>11447196
Nice twist.

>>11447292
you need some arcane button combination to jump forwards and it's an attack. Auto jumping is the laziest proto QoL game design for an adventure game. I understand for an RPG, but even daggerfall lets you jump and fly and super jump and slowfall. It's so strange to me that you don't miss jumping while playing Zelda? I guess I've become accustomed to it too. Though I still find it dumb.

>>11447529
Likely when the Switch came out. Somehow that console of all consoles activated a bunch of sleeper cell seethers and mind broke console warriors that already had a vendetta against Nintendo from the start.

>>11447852
There's no reason to ever jump forward unless you're on a ledge. Hopping directly forward isn't really a realistic real life maneuver. IRL the amount of upward momentum you can actually gain is minimal . The backflip, sidehop and forward roll make sense as evasive maneuvers

>>11447869
Link's Awakening was so fun because you could jump, mind you it was on GB with a lot less buttons. OoT is a shameless regression.

>>11446984
>>11447876
Slow day for you today?

>>11439113
On Christmas of 98 I got my n64 with OOT and Shadows of the empire. I've played through SOTE about 100 times and OOT twice. When you read a top 100 you're getting a few people's opinions, that's all.

>>11447972
>SOTE
That game is doodoo though

>>11447869
I understand what you are saying and even mgs is guilty of not having a jump button. I still think it's dumb. There's ample places that jumping to grab a ledge would be useful not as an auto jump. As much as I gripe about it and I do gripe about it often, I feel as though if they made oot with more platforming elements it would've been to akin to sm64 at the time. I also feel like I've heard one of Nintendo's talking heads say something along those lines too, but I can't remember. Another note to oot having more platforming; the dev team would've had to dramatically change the dungeon designs and over world designs to incorporate such Acrobatic antics. it wouldve totally been more like tomb raider and I think that would've drawn away from its popularity, not just as tomb raiders competitor but taking away a very big aspect of the game that makes its what it is. I don't think it would've been as beloved if it had a designated jump button.

>>11448006
>zoomer doesn't like old game
Yeah I don't like atari but I don't just dismiss like some faggot

>>11447972
>When you read a top 100 you're getting a few people's opinions, that's all.
It's exactly this, some games have a nice amount of input to get a relative score without bias. Not for oot though, Even zoomers who've never played oot are voting for it, just to bandwagon like a fomo homo. On the flip side, just because a game has less reviews doesn't mean it's good because of contrarianism. There's nuance in the causal events at play.

>>11448028
Link auto jumps when you move towards a grabable ledge
I think the game has a nice amount of platforming. You have platforming sprinkled throughout the world and all the dungeons and featured heavily in the fire temple

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>>11439113
>Hoot hoot! Now, young adventurer, I must inquire, with the utmost urgency, whether or not you wouldn't, under any circumstances, decline to refrain from allowing me, once more, to proceed with the explanation that I have imparted upon you already, should you find yourself, perchance, not entirely unopposed to such a repetition. Are you not entirely disinclined to hear it again, yes?
>Yes
>No

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>>11448165
>7 yo me who can barely read

>>11447542
its ok if you dont understand history or the cultural climate at the time to understand why the beatles were popular when they were and who they were popular among. pretentious shitposting doesnt really change the fact that oot has flaws, doesnt hold up very well, and is overrated/over praised.

>>11447869
>Hopping directly forward isn't really a realistic real life maneuver
>The backflip make sense as evasive maneuver
lmao pick one.

>>11447972
i only played through the full game once or twice, but i replayed all of the vehicle levels TONS of times. i even did the hoth level and made sure to kill all of my own allies for fun and then the enemies. i definitely had more fun with it.

>>11448083
auto-hopping a gap in a broken bridge is the illusion of an obstacle. that isnt platforming.

>>11448237
So? It's not a platformer

>>11448240
You said the game has a nice amount of platforming, which is to say NONE because holding forwards on the stick as the game automated everything for you is not platforming. Fucking Halo has more platforming than Ocarina.

>>11448242
I didn't say any of that. I didn't even read what you were replying to, I was merely correcting the first post I saw when I entered the thread and clicked bottom.

Also, to say that there is zero platforming is just silly. Think of the heart piece in the windmill or flying chickens around. The hover boots are a platforming item.

>>11448243
so you didnt read, didnt correct anything, and basically are just shitposting for the sake of it. wow. cool admission though.

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>>11439113
>this entire thread
sorry zoomies oot will always be great and OP is a fag

>>11448243
>I didn't say any of that
>>11448083
>I think the game has a nice amount of platforming
Different anon?

>>11448165
Kek

ur moms overrated fag

>>11448237
>auto-hopping a gap in a broken bridge is the illusion of an obstacle
Nigger you are DEAD ASS lifting quotes straight from that faggot Egoraptor's video.
Get your own goddamn opinions, you pretentious faggot.

>>11448253
>Hurr durr ur a shitposter
Like the other guy said, you're literally parroting some e-celeb's faggy opinions while passing them off as your own like the know-nothing NPC pseud you are.

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>>11448225
And yet it still continues to be the most influential game of all time for the majority of vidya going forward even right down to its combat mechanics. No amount of bitter takes and screeching overused buzzwords about it's fanboyism praise will change that fact.

>>11448489
>>11448495
>>11448506
circle jerking harder doesnt refute a point or make it less true. it is also possible for two people to come to arrive at the same truth since it is an objective truth. also its funny how that video blew your assholes wide open and you've still never recovered, always resorting to "get your own opinon" (ignoring and deflection) and "have you seen his playthrough? he's terrible at the game" (whataboutism and still ignoring the actual points). no amount of pretentious fanboyism is a substitute for a valid argument.
>right down to its combat mechanics
lmfao enemies circling around you one at a time doing nothing until they do one attack and then circle around again isnt really something games do these days.
>most influential
popularity and "influence" do not equate to quality, and CERTAINLY not to enduring quality. its a meaningless nothingburger to mention and largely irrelevant to the topic.

thank you for proving my point that you clowns SEETHE at any mere criticism.

>>11448083
>I think the game has a nice amount of platforming
Holding forward and letting the game do the perfect jump for you is no different than walking in a straight line. But if you cannot understand where the real issue is, you're not going to understand where true greatness lies either.

>>11448489
Perfectly valid critique

>>11448253
These are both me
>>11448243
>>11448246
Sorry, guy :o)

>>11448028
>I don't think it would've been as beloved if it had a designated jump button
Or you could just check how much a 3D Zelda game sold with a designated jump button to realize how wrong you are.

>>11448538
>enemies circling around you one at a time doing nothing until they do one attack and then circle around again isnt really something games do these days
OoT IS a regression, and you only need to take a look at the NES games to see it.

>>11448738
But it's in 3D! Much better than the boring dated 2D Zeldas only boomers care about.

>>11448740
The only times OoT uses 3D in a meaningful manner is when you shoot at bats in first person view mode without using the Z target. That's basically a FPS.

Batman Arkham Asylum fixed Ocarina of Time's old combat

I can’t think of a single 3D action game with a good sword and shield fighting system, even M&B gets tiresome if you are not impaling from a horse. This was a solved problem in the 2D games.

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>>11448538
>>11448623
Spouting someone else's opinions while passing them off as your own makes you look insecure, that you have little to no argument or a mind of your own. It's pure NPC and Zoomer behavior.

You're only proving that the more you double down revealing your intentions, the more it shows you're just here to incite a flamewar, instead of putting forth HIS arguments in HIS name from the start of the discussion, because that'd technically be off-topic e-celeb shit.

You never had the same thoughts/complaints/nitpicks he had and only agree with him because they "sound" objectively correct, because it appeals to YOUR confirmation bias of not liking Ocarina to begin with.

It's literally been 10 fucking years since that video came out and while a broken clock's right twice a day, his actions and attitude towards 3D Zeldas proves otherwise.

No one takes Arin's screeds on vidya seriously anymore because he's shown to be an ADHD autist that NEVER owns up to his sped behavior when he fucks up, because it's NEVER EVER /HIS/ fault.

Jon called it on Arin's autism before making that video:
>You're entitled to just LIKING something, ok? You don't have to justify it.
>There's SOME things you have to justify, like, overall game theory shit -- but that's just something YOU like (the Big Chest).
>I don't think most people will agree with what you're saying to-be-honest. It's a really weirdly specific thing.

TL;DR OoT's still the GOAT.
Arin's a pretentious, washed-up hack.
Charge rent. Move the fuck on.

>>11442987
Counter argument:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o908SWJ8ulc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXvP1s9UjJI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPohAvSfcxU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJg3HP36FrM

>>11439121
This, long ass tutorials/starting areas, what a pain

What a thick brick just to cope with the fact anything automatic removes the fun from the player.

>>11448538
Take it easy it's just a video game.

>>11440470
err you can just patch with Zelda Redux in about ten secinds and it fixes every QoL whine you could come up with https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5138/

>>11449294
his own gameplay does not discredit his critique or actual points. the only 2 things in his video that are 100% his own fault are his lack of spatial awareness and object permanence ("spike thing out of nowhere") and his adhd impatience ("why do i have to deliver a stupid fucking letter, just let me climb over. let me fucking GO and explore") not allowing the game to gate the player's progression. thats it. everything else he says is spot on. no amount of poor choices in his own gameplay undoes that. being unable to separate the statement itself from the person who said it only indicates a lack of maturity and cognitive function on your part. continuing to try and push the notion that it discredits him, while not refuting anything, only illustrates how desperate you are to avoid discussion, because you actually have no argument to present; only blind zealotry. its no different than putting fingers in your ears, shutting your eyes, and shouting "LALALALALALALALALALA". its willful ignorance.

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>>11449729
>fan patches count as inherent quality of the game
yikes. cool set of changes though.

>>11448723
Or you could pay attention to context

>>11449729
barely has any controls adjustments
doesnt really say anything about menu speed
does not do anything at all for "graphics, sound quality/design, combat, density of gameplay and interactivity, puzzle design" as i listed in my post.
some of those minor adjustments are neat and welcome, but it doesnt really tackle some of the bigger issues with the game. more importantly, it isnt the original game itself, so it really has no bearing on the discussion.

The fact that contrarians are still trying to make this point 25 years after its release is proof that yes, it deserves the praise it gets.

>>11449949
>y-y-you're just a contrarian!
>that means im right because... b-because it just DOES ok!
maybe next time present an actual point or refute criticism with something real.

>>11441535
>Who did the Beatles better than the Beatles? Fucking Blur?
Radiohead.

>>11450117
>y-y-you're just a contrarian!
Yes. Tons of games have come out within the past 25 years that despite getting critical acclaim and high sales, end up forgotten within a few years (and even that's being generous). The fact Ocarina is still talked about, and has even gotten decompiled and ported to PC, is a sign that the game is not overrated at all, and deserves its place in the hall of fame of gaming.

>>11450306

I fucking hate OoT, but is indisputably an important and well loved game. I don't understand why you'd try to suggest that it isn't actually any good.

>>11450306
"it deserves it because WE hold it up" is not an argument. in fact, its just an admission that its praise and reverence is basically astroturfed.

transitioning from 2d to 3d was a wild and impressive time to live through. lots of kids had the game and were blown away by it. they hold it near and dear to their heart and formative years. a lot of people still praise goldeneye64 too (oh look, the same time period and type of people) despite it being LAUGHABLY bad compared to modern fps. while modern games can be flavor of the month and get lost in "well yeah its good, but so are these hundreds of others", those old n64 games were new, shiny, different and MEMORABLE simply BECAUSE of that stuff, regardless of their actual quality. a lot of n64 and ps1 games are very primitive and clunky, but many people still hold them dear due to WHEN they experienced the game and what else they even HAD to experience. it a lot like losing your virginity to your crush and still remembering it fondly despite having had sex hundreds of times since then, even though you were young and barely knew what you were doing. its propped up by nostalgia.

hell, i'll even run with the virginity metaphor. its like saying it was the best sex anyone has ever had, but then somebody finds the tape of it and says "really? this doesnt look like great sex. it seems pretty overrated. your most recent sex tape was way more engaging/entertaining and a better display" and you respond "y-you just had to BE there!" and then the critics reply with "dude, you literally asked 'is it in yet?' and even fell off the bed once. theres no way this is the best anyone has ever had." and you reply with more seethe and "it just IS, ok?!" stuff.

thats what this is like. "well people are praising it, so that means it deserves it" is such circular logic that ignores the point and critique. "other things are forgotten" ignores any and all context. (cont, 1/2)

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>so what will it be?

>>11450426
>>11450306
(cont 2/2)
"this seems overrated"
"well its not. look at all of these other things that are forgotten."
"those are good though, and they too were highly praised."
"but not like oot has been!"
"yeah... thats what overrated means"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOO (and other seething cope)".

I don't love ocarina and I have no nostagia for it having first played it past childhood, it is a good game but clearly not a perfect one, however I think it, like 2d zelda, is the peak(almost by default) of a deep rooted but strangely neglected videogame premise, that of the general action adventure. open world rpgs, immersive sims, and various combat biased character action games, and shooters never really replicate what zelda does. they're mostly a combination of too linear, too narrowly focused on combat, too limited by realism, buried in the sea of jank and complexity of an rpg, and just generally don't have the creative freedom that zelda offers.
for that reason I don't have much desire for tearing oot down, worst case scenario a couple of comparable gems like shadow man or megaman legends go underappreciated. the genre it exists in is going to be neglected regardless.

Played it for the first time on 3DS with all the improvements and I still thought it was underwhelming. It’s an incredibly slow and empty game - I don’t see how anyone could argue in good faith that its successors don’t completely obsolete it. For its time it was fine. I’ll take Ocarina over true grindfests like Banjo and DK64 any day. But no it doesn’t hold up at all.

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>>11449949
>contrarians
The numbers tell a different story.

>>11450306
>The fact Ocarina is still talked about, and has even gotten decompiled and ported to PC, is a sign that the game is not overrated at all, and deserves its place in the hall of fame of gaming
Right next to Goemon 64.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44cqBBSn7Ek

I will never in my life understand people who spend THIS much time laboring and complaining that a lot of people like a game they don't.

>>11450837
>I don’t see how anyone could argue in good faith that its successors don’t completely obsolete it
OoT sequels are built upon everything that was wrong with it, moving further and further away fom the roots of the franchise and the essence of video game greatness.

>11450901
>The numbers tell a different story.
That's a lot of contrarians.

>>11450934
Autism and mental-illness. It's that shrimple.

>>11450934
nobody is saying that you cant like it. maybe the fact that your literacy level is so low that you came to that conclusion from the thread is indicative of other mental shortcomings.

>no one's saying you can't like it!
>Calls anyone praising it "zealots" and eternally seethes

>>11451245
there is a difference between liking something and claiming that its "10/10, flawless, perfect, best game ever made" while ignoring any and all critique and evidence of flaws and progression since then.
there is a difference between liking something and doubling down on ignorance and seethe.

are these concepts hard for you to understand?

>>11450778
>just generally don't have the creative freedom that zelda offers
The entire issue with OoT and its sequels is that it denies the player any and all creative freedom so you'd have to play the game the way the devs chose for you.

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>>11450901
>The numbers tell a different story.
That they do, anon! That they do!

>>11451795
>22 critics
>4216 ratings
Vs
>280k upvotes

>>11451823
Less is more in terms quality. If you wanna' bump up the numbers go and read aaaaall the comments in that video and tally what side they lean on. I'll wait.

>>11449949
Where is the logic in this statement of yours?
It reads like
"yeah a lot of people praise it...so it deserves the praise"
You realize that's called begging the question

>>11450973
Ocarina of Time was already removed from previous games. It really doesn't make much sense to give OoT a pass here. The games that came after OoT were superior, and not one of the games from OoT onward until not-retro have gotten back to the series roots. I don't think OoT deserves to be held to critical acclaim as late as 2024.

>>11451962
What's it to whether or not it is?

>>11451354
I mean, that's adventure games. they're very much the "guess what the developer was thinking" genre.
OOT does have a fair amount of wiggle room to allow you to do wacky shit or self impose challenges though. Or just explore and look for secrets.

If this of all things is your angle to attack OOT. I wonder what you even like. Just games that are all about player choice and character creation, which basically brings you down to about 5% of the genres that are out there?
Do you like play Megaman and find yourself going "why can't I just forgo the level design though"?

>>11452028
I think Megaman SUCKS

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>>11439113
still relevant after all this time

>>11439113
>does anyone think OOT is overrated
Yes, twice a week for the last 2+ years