First release revealhttps://youtu.be/wZ9byYPzQXU?si=hkac-q2w7y9eg87L
i can finally play it
>>11476329All other ways were inferior - and dare I say - soulless
https://youtu.be/kFS4o7AcqHI?si=EWHUebtRQmdUN-BIBasically alpha release dropped now - we have been testing for a few days
https://gitlab.com/skmp/dca3-game#baking-the-cdi
>crazy taxi soundtrack starts playing on the radio
>>11476328.cdi where?
>>11476370>dude buy the full pc version No.Gib cdi
>>11476328ill wait for a based chad to compile a cdi and throw it on the internet archive
>>11476328I can't wait for the Sonic Mania port
>>11476663They have to say that to ward off a "Encouraging Copyright Infringement" complaint. Everyone who would care about this already has an alternate release.
Don't you just love it when some shit that nobody asked for and has no reason to exist happensI mean yeah man, nerds gonna nerd but I just dgaf
Cool. Now we need it on N64.
>>11476328The 648x480 footage I've seen runs pretty assy; is 512x384 any better or is it more CPU-limited?
>>11476973It's proof of concept at this point. GTA3 already had performance issues on PS2, and that was developed with Sony's own developer libraries, so like how Vice City and San Andreas did it'll take several iterations in order to improve the performance on the Dreamcast.
>>11476973The Dreamcast GPU and indeed the superior PS2 GPU can push the math to handle the game at 640x480. It ran in 512x448 on the PS2 due to limited VRAM, but since the Dreamcast has the spare VRAM, lowering the resolution won't do much as GTA 3 is a CPU-bound game for sure.
Honestly, it looks pretty impressive for an early Alpha. It has come a long way since the earlier builds. The devs have fixed a lot of bugs. The framerate is still chuggy. But this is a decompiled build of the PC version running on the DC. https://youtu.be/ofn3F16ZKk4?t=492
>>11476986>>11476984I don't care about your Dreamcope. Does this run better at a lower resolution or not?
>>11477094You are a fucking idiot. I answered your question (>>11476986).
Extremely impressive, but sadly it only really works on an ODE due to streaming issues.
>>11477094What a faggot
>>11476973>The 648x480 footage I've seen runs pretty assy; is 512x384 any better or is it more CPU-limited?that's grimyou would run it 800 600 even on a shit GPU back then
I WANT THE GDI GODDAMMIT
That is technically the 2nd best gta stillBut I played it too many times already
>>11476947>open thread>"hey everyone, I don't care about this">F5>F5>F5>[...]
>>11477421That is really unfortunate. I guess I'll skip this until they get it working properly on disc.
>>11476986PC version of GTA 3 is GPU bound thanks to overdraw
>>11477421There is a mod for 32mb on the Dreamcast and they still sell the SH4 cpu but at 240 mhz, I wonder if that would help a bit. The music being compressed might be hard on the cpu, you needed a pentium 60 all by iteself just to play mp3's back in the day.>>11477094Can it go under 640x480, there is some guy who ran a demo at 800x600 but it won't sync to many tv's.
>>11476370no one can figure it out or be arsed to compile it
>>11476328What’s the point of playing it with inferior controls. I can play it on a 4:3 crt on Xbox or ps2.
>>11477536>What’s the point of playing it with inferior controls.The GTA games on PSP proved its doableBesides, dealing with ports that have gimped controls is part of the Dreamcast/N64 charm
>>11477536GTA 3 doesn't even use all the buttons on PS2 lol
>>11477536I'm pretty sure this is using the same control scheme as LCS
So I guess it won't be playable on any emulator anytime soon until it can be handled by such software. Disappoint.
>>11477529why are codemonkeys like this? no normal person will ever play it now
>>11477593It works on actual hardware as long as you have an ODE>>11477595>>11477529They're probably doing this to avoid legal issuesWe need some giganerd to compile it and put it on mega or whatever
>>11476328now that cat is out of the bag, the flag has been raised, the ship has sailed, the dogs are let out, could this have saved the Dreamcast???
>>11477626Nothing could have saved the DreamcastSega just gave up
>>11477626No. It would've been pretty cool to have back then, though.
Here's a prebuilt CDI designed for ODEs. No idea if it works on emulators, and if you're looking for one to burn to disc, this ain't it.>https://gofile.io/d/9LVLQT
>>11477626>he hasn't brushed up on his /vr/If you did, you'd already know the damage was too deep by that point because Bernie and SoA maliciously decided to gatekeep 90s American normies from Saturn gemeralds like Magic Knight Rayearth despite the frothing demand for quirky JRPGs from jocks, forcing them finally give up and buy PlayStations and NFL GameDay instead
>>11477603The correct way to do this is to provide an exe that the user points to their PC GTA 3 install and the exe uses that to spit out a Dreamcast disc image.
>>11476328Next, the GameCube
>>11477640It doesn’t work on emulators. The devs are trying to help emulator developers by giving them the details but this uses hardware specific things which aren’t yet implemented in the current emulators.I’m not sure which build you used but you’re the man. There’s a latest elf from yesterday which fixes a lot of things. It looks great to be honest, I forgot how shitty the ps2 version looked.
>>11477436> I can run games better on my $2000 PC than I can on my $200 dreamcast, GET REKT CONSOLEQUEERS!!!Story as old as time.
>>11477593Why the fuck would you want to emulate it when you can just play the PC version? The whole point of this is to play on a Dreamcast.
>>11477848>wHy tHe FuCk!calm you tits you dumbshit, I didnt take my retro consoles when I moved abroad. just a neat thing to have for my dc emulation library.
...and just like that... The Dreamcast was saved
>>11476328When GameCube port?
>>11477626>could this have saved the Dreamcast???Possibly. But it would have had to come out first on Dreamcast, and have an exclusive contract with Sega. Imagine this as a launch title for Dreamcast.
>>11477654>Saturn gemeralds like Magic Knight Rayearth despite the frothing demand for quirky JRPGs from jocks, forcing them finally give up and buy PlayStations and NFL GameDay insteadWrong. There was a demand for *3D* roleplaying games.Not 75% of the Saturn JRPG Library which was filled with 2D and maybe 2.5D garbage. Thjnm about it. The Sega Saturn Japanese library didn't have anything CLOSE to Final Fantasy 7.
>>11477896>just a neat thing to have for my dc emulation library.If you have a PC to run an emulator than you can just run the PC version. What aren't you getting?
>>11476328Now all the Playstation fanboys can shut up. Years of trolling Dreamcast threads saying the DC couldn't even boot GTA and that it would be too much for the hardware.Here's the proof. Admit it. Now all we need is optimizations to get the framerate up and get the game beyond early Alpha Stage.
>>11476328>3Why not VC?
Wow it works
>>11477915god you're stupid lol>>11477923blew away my expectations, I was just researching the project a day before the alpha release and thought they put it off. really exciting stuff
>>11477915>If you have a PC to run an emulator than you can just run the PC version. What aren't you getting?If I have an emulator I can play around with this GTA 3 build to see what could have been, without having to take my dreamcast out of storage. What are YOU not getting?
>>11477896No.
>>11477951Are you retarded?
Really want to play it but I'm too lazy to build the cdi for a project that is still ongoing
I really appreciate this straight to the point assessment of the build. Think I'll wait to play it and enjoy something else in the meantime
>>11477980Sounds like they'll be giving it an extra optimization pass. The shit they had to do to get it to run on the PS2 was crazy.
>>11477916yeah there are some online arguments that are too tumb to pay attention to. Not trying to flex but I always said that dreamcast can do anything ps2 can, just cut down a few things on it. ps2's "emotion engine" is no less a farce than genesis' "blast processing". At least genesis had the speed to have some perks ahead of the snes for some games, PS2 is just objectively inferior in every way to gamecube and xbox while barely better than dreamcast.
dumb*
>>11477989The biggest showstopper is probably the lack of DVD support.
>>1147799132 hours on bing told me that GTA3 was about 1.6gbGetting that to fit on a CD-R will be tough
I want an autism radio station with sonic adventure jet set radio burning rangers and all that shit
>>11477996Pleb
>>11477980Wow sounds great. Lol like a restaurant advertising a meal saying they cough on it before serving. No thanks
>>11477980>experience gta3 as it was meant to be, okay visuals and sluggish gameplay
>>11477529you all complain about pajeets but then this filters you
>>11477951Are YOU stupid? This "Dreamcast GTA version" runs on PC for now. It's programmed to be limited to theoretical Dreamcast technology. To only use tech that the Dreamcast had in 1999The current Dreamcast emulators are too primitive and need a big update to run this. They can't run the current build of this "GTA on DC" right now. That's why the devs of the Dreamcast emulators are asking the GTA team for help to update their emulators.Now youve been educated. No need to apologize. You are dismissed.
>>11477996Nah. Just compress the music and textures. Problem solved.
>>11477980>okay visuals and sluggish gameplaysoul you mean?
>>11478167>just choke the cpu with more decompressing time
>>11477996there is repeated data throughout the disc to help streaming with less seeking times
>>11477923Is it really running at 480p? That's wild.
>>11478183There are also hours of music and audio.
>>11478179The Hitachi SH4 is strong. It can handle it. That's why Sega chose it for Dreamcast.
>>11476328What a completely pointless effort. Doesn't GTA3 need 8 buttons to really work right? DC has 6 button controllers. Plus it has inferior hardware to PS2. This wasn't on DC for good reason and its not just that Sega pulled out of making consoles during the DC life cycle.
>>11478162you're literally a retard lol
>>11477989>inferior in every wayit can display way more particles than those
>>11478270>This wasn't on DC for good reason and its not just that Sega pulled out of making consoles during the DC life cycle.It was in development for Dreamcast until Sega announced they were pulling out of the console market. Then Rockstar switched to PS2 development instead.
>>11478286Who cares? It WAS in development. Doesn't mean it got completed and released for the DC.
>>11478296But Your original post was hinting that Dreamcast couldn't run it.
>>11478309What makes you think GTA3 would have been left completely intact as we see it on PS2 today but for DC? I highly doubt the game could have been left intact without compromises. The most obvious being a more limited controller as far as controls goes.
>>11478316Well the answer to your question is the OP post and main topic that was shared. You don't have an argument anymore.
>>11478316>anon angrily ignores every post and argues with the past
>>11478320>implying the company behind GTA3 would have been competent enough with the DC hardware>>11478329I am not arguing with anybody or about anything. This is a completely pointless effort especially since GTA3 is available for PS2, Xbox, PC and you can easily emulate it. I just see no real need for some DC port that is all.
>>11478349>I just see no real need for some DC port that is all.To prove people like you and other naysayers that Dreamcast could run it.Were already winning. Just look at you. We've gone from (lol Dreamcast is crap and can't run it or even boot the game kekekkekek) to(okay well uh...i just don't see the point. Stop it. Please. There's no point).Next step is(okay damn. It runs pretty well on Dreamcast hardware. I was wrong).It's coming.Brace yourself.
>>11477996>>11478179There is another build for DreamShell on dc-swat forums, complete with radio stations. Image size is 785M.GPU has support for compressed textures (.PVR), as long as they are square, with no performance penalty. Same story with audio chip (hardware ADPCM).
>>11476893doesn't matter. The decompiled code has been deemed illegal by T2 and they will take it down if they see it. They took down the original copies and even directly sued the decompers after they counterclaimed.
>>11478452>Image size is 785M.GD-ROM are 1.2GB. 785MB is legit if this was an official take2 product. I want to try it on my Dreamcast.
>>11478494>GD-ROM are 1.2GBI thought they were exactly 1GB
>>11478349The point is that I like it. The Faustian spirit embraces the pursuit of science
>>11478349You wouldn't get it.
Nope
>>11477980Wow they're really selling it to us. This sounds great, when you can just get those 60fps ports that have just been fixed up. Fuck sake
>>11478201Of course it is. Something the little ps2 could only dream of. Pathetic.
>>11478296>make a point>proved wrong in an embarrassing wayW-WHO CARESlol fuck off
>>11476328I’d rather see a port of Banjo Kazooie to Dreamcast.
>>11477923Same stretch on PS2
>>11476328this really makes you wonder what dreamcast's limits are.could it really handle most ps2 games graphically?is it just gdi vs dvd size limits?
>>11478691>could it really handle most ps2 games graphically?Dreamcast's issues aren't quality of the graphics. It's quantity of graphics.What that means is that Dreamcast could match and even exceed PS2 in the quality of graphics. But PS2 could put MORE graphics and pixels on screen at once. That means PS2 has much better draw distance, and can have more NPCs on screen.However, there are ways around that and tricks that could be used for Dreamcast to match. Like how Crazy Taxi uses constant streaming from the disc drive (which keeps the disc spinning) to make loading of areas seamless. The only downside that it wears out the disc drive faster.So the answer is yes. Dreamcast can play most PS2 games. There would be some adjustments, but it could happen.
>>11478691>this really makes you wonder what dreamcast's limits are.I think audio is a big limit. Dreamcast has texture compression which helps a lot compared to PS2.
>>11478691Dreamcast at it's very best will look slightly better than early PS2 titlesIt will never be able to match the best looking PS2 games like pic related though
>>11478695>However, there are ways around that and tricks that could be used for Dreamcast to match. Like how Crazy Taxi uses constant streaming from the disc drive (which keeps the disc spinning) to make loading of areas seamlessBut that's literally what the GTA games on PS2 do. It's not something unique to the Dreamcast
>All this effort wasted on grand slop auto instead of a better PS2 game
>>11477996I wonder if you could split the game on two CDs. Just put Staunton/Shoreside missions on CD 2 or something.
>>11478270GTA3 barely makes proper use of the PS2 controller. The game was totally built around a single joystick.
>>11478720We will see, not a bad idea. But ode is the way to go. Some of these quality of life upgrades are expensive but they’re so worth while. Vm2, dreamcon wireless controller , dcdigital and ODE are crazy awesome enhancements - I even bought the broadband adapter. Yeah it’s nuts but wtf for a small fortune you have something quite rare and elite
>>11476328>>11477923>>11478680>crappier textures>worse shading>low LOD and draw distance >building models redone to render fewer polygons>fewer pedestrians and traffic>still 20 fps with drops >porting done by autistic sega cultist and it still took years for the beta to be launchedFull 480p resolution aside, it's awful. There's a reason this port was cancelled.
>>11478953>it still took years for the beta to be launchedThis project started in July you nutcase.
>>11477996People way back when already got the PS2 game onto CD-R's by removing radio stations
>>11478708>All this effort wasted on grand slop auto instead of a better PS2 game>a better PS2 gameSuch as?
>>11478695>What that means is that Dreamcast could match and even exceed PS2 in the quality of graphics.The GS is massively superior to the PowerVR chip used in the Dreamcast. Ironically, you have everything the other way around; the PS2's graphical bottleneck is its limited VRAM, exactly half the Dreamcast's. This means it is the Dreamcast that can put more graphics and pixels on screen, but the actual math used to achieve this is much slower than on PS2.
>>11479007>the PS2's graphical bottleneck is its limited VRAM, exactly half the Dreamcast'sCorrect me if I'm wrong but, didn't PS2 devs find out they could somehow also use the PS2's main memory as VRAM? I think this has something to do with how early PS2 titles like Ridge Racer 5 use field rendering and are jaggy shimmering messes but later titles look much smoother
>>11479007No. You have it backwards. The DC GPU was superior to PS2. The DC GPU had higher quality texture compression, and it could do native anti-aliasing. The GPU is the one major thing Sega dumped the majority of their budget into for the console. The PS2 had a better CPU than Dreamcast.
>>11479020Pretty much any system can reserve main memory for the GPU, but unless the bus is specifically designed to facilitate this, then this results in very slow memory access.The shimmering in Ridge Racer 5 isn't because of memory sharing, but as you said: field rendering. To understand this, we must first understand interlacing.Older TV's didn't support 480p (progressive), but 480i (interlaced). Basically, they lacked the bandwidth to display the entire image simultaneously, so the picture was received by the TV in two "fields": the first field displaying half the lines (see the red field) and the second field some milliseconds later displaying the other half (grey field).Most 480i games render a full frame and then split it into two when sending the signal to TV, but field rendered games do it differently: they render each field independently as its own 240-line image with a squished aspect ratio internally, but this doesn't matter once it the TV stacks them together..This has some performance advantages since you don't need as much VRAM to render a 240p image. With field rendering, you can put all your VRAM into the first field, send it out, and now all your VRAM can be redirected to producing the second field.But in terms of image quality there is a huge disadvantage: being rendered separately means they don't know anything about the other field's mathematics. In field rendered games, pretty much every texture shimmers at oblique angles because the texture filtering won't account for coordinates in the other field. Thus in practice, you'll only get texture filtering horizontally.Games that render both fields simultaneously don't have this issue since the mathematics are contiguous on every axis, but they do have to render 480 lines at once.Basically, imagine we have a 60fps game. Progressive rendering does 480 lines every 16.67ms while field rendering does 240 lines every 8.33ms. The latter is faster, but looks worse.
>>11479050>The DC GPU was superior to PS2wrong>The DC GPU had higher quality texture compression, and it could do native anti-aliasingThe advantages of the GS are so immeasurable that texture compression is a blip on the radar, and I cannot think of a single Dreamcast game that used anti-aliasing.
>>11479062Ok but most PS2 games stopped using field rendering at some point, how did they do it?
pretty cool that one of the programmers for the original shared this. it looks like DMA really liked the Dreamcast but market forces pushed them to PS2.
>>11479067>>11479050To clarify:>the PS2's GS was clocked 50% faster than the Dreamcast's Holly>With Z-buffer, alphas, and textures, the GS has a fill rate of 1.2 gigapixels/s compared to 100 megapixels/s on the Holly>Holly can do 3.12 million polygons/s in real gameplay, compared to 16 million/s on the GS>Bump mapping and normal mapping on Holly was limited to two passes, compared to four on the GS>Holly offered no particle simulation>>11479070Devs learnt to live with 4MB of VRAM
Ps2 flagship game just got ported to the 5.5 gen Dreamcast and the Sony fans are writhing in pain. Love to see it
>>11479084And it looks and runs worse than COP The Recruit on NDS.
>>11479127It's an alpha and hitherto the assumption was that GTA 3 on DC would look like Simpsons Hit & Run to run at all. Stop coping.
The Simpsons hit and run looks way better than GTA 3!
>>11479067Omikron the Nomad soul used AA
>>11479067>The advantages of the GS are so immeasurable that texture compression is a blip on the radarNah. It matters.
>>1147978430fps vs 60fpsRealistically nobody is playing Quake 3, especially not anyone saying they play it on PC.
>>11477161Prove it. Where's the video? Just because it fits in the framebuffer/memory @ 480p doesn't mean it can't gain a few frames at a lower resolution.
>>11477436480i was the console/CRT-TV standard. Many PS2 games ran at lower. 5th gen and below ran at 240p. This generally looks fine on those displays. A sharp VGA monitor doesn't soften/distort the imagine in a way that makes low res content appealing.
>>11479825I don’t need to prove anything. I’m right.
>>11479834because 1080p doesn't run any better than 4K on a memory rich card like a 4090 right? Your logic is fucked. It could be CPU limited but neither one of us can say for sure til someone runs it at a lower resolution.
>>11479836Hmm… no, you’re wrong.
I hurt my back yesterday putting beds together for my kids. Here's some more comparisons early on.
>>11479840Pardon that flickering in the capture, that is not the game I didn't click in my switcher well enough.
>>11478691This build is full of cheeky cuts and optimizations to do what it does, and still runs worse. GTA3, and most west-trash, is not a good example of PS2 pushed to its limits. It was a generalized engine (RenderWare) they modded to do what they needed and only cared to get it running well enough. Something like MGS3 or ZOE2 would be a PS2 game at the limits and Dreamcast would not handle it well because it couldn't push nearly as much alpha and polygon density.
>>11479840>>11479842did they turn down the traffic density or is it just a coincidence?
>>11479848pedestrian and traffic density is turned down by a large degree. You can see the ped/car setting in the display setup menu which I get the feeling is for the density, but this is the stock settings for a new game.
>>11479852Don't forget post processing.
>>11479852fair. if they got the PS2 assets in, that might help. the PC assets ARE heavier.
>>11479823More coping. It's sad. DC has better textures. No need for your response.
>>11479864I believe they're rebuilding the PS2 assets to be lower poly. In order to match PS2 density and visuals it's going to need any help it can get.The physics are different too, I think it's just the way RE3 works? I prefer the PS2 physics, less roll over prone and more grip.
>>11479784Using any western game/port as a comparison between PS2 and DC is moot. Just about every western game barely worked on consoles and didn't maximize either one of them. It's like comparing Unity to a proper in-house game engine from Asobo or Remedy.
A better comparison would be something like DOA2 where the devs actually put their best foot forward on both machines. That's one where DC will win, though, because it doesn't use PS2's poly/alpha budget, but has PS2's worse image quality.
Shenmue vs Silent Hill 3 is probably the best way to summarize the strengths and weaknesses of each machine, and shows which one had a more powerful GPU.
>>11479916Apples vs oranges is probably the best comparison.
>>11476328I really dont see the purpose in this
>>11479921I really don’t see the point in Super Mario. He just runs around and jumps on the turtles. Pointless.
>>11479919They both come about as close as you can get to the console's potential and aren't C-grade western slop strained to work on the console. One game looks cleaner. One has a ton more post-processing, higher polygon count, and more complex lighting. This is pretty much the difference between the two in a nutshell.
>>11479923What's your point anon?I mean ffs theres tutorials online for the latest mario wonder telling people how to complete the tutorial stage telling you to hold right to walk dash forward.Tendies are low iq retards. So again what's your point?I'm simply saying I dont see why they bothered to port gta3 to the DC. There are many other better games which they could of ported yet choose this. Even if they did pick something else then really what still is the point?
>>11479953What’s the point in Pac-Man? He just eats the dots. Pointless.
>>11479953Maybe they just like GTA3 and wanted to see what a Dreamcast version would have looked like.
>>11478953Sour grapes, huh?
THPS3 when?
>>11480105What does that have to do with Grand Theft Auto III?
>>11478996That actually makes it even more impressive imo. Not sure what that anon's problem is lol
Will it enhance or diminish the soul of the game when it runs at 60 fps?
>>11476328Nothing against the Dreamcast, I love that system. But I'd much rather play the PC version of GTA3.
>>11479084>Ps2 flagship game3 was outdated the next year with VC
>>11480107Great PS2 game from the same time period that came out on everything but Dreamcast, and would be a much better result than a compromised port of GTA3.
>>11480218The first Harry Potter movie also came out in the same time period and wasn’t on the Dreamcast. That doesn’t mean it has anything to do with GTAIII or this thread.
>>11480235lol it's not that big a stretch, faggot.Thread's about an amateur port of a game where the console version was most associated with the PS2, so it opens the door for discussions of other possibilities from that gen.Because of its early demise there were lots of missed opportunities with the Dreamcast, and that console is a glaring gap in the sizeable release list for THPS3.Besides size issues from the videos or built-in demo which could be excised, I don't know what other hurdles it might encounter.
>>11480285>Thread's about an amateur port of a game where the console version was most associated with the PS2, so it opens the door for discussions of other possibilities from that gen.>another decade of Dreamcastfags playing make believe and coming with retarded scenarios in their heads
SOMEONE UPLOAD A PREBUILT IMAGE AND STOP BEING A FUCKING SIMP FOR A HOMEBREW DEV.
>>11480298see>>11477640
>>11480285I’m being a dick. My real point is this thread is about GTA3, go make your own thread.
>>11479784Left runs at 30fps while right is 60fps. Right also has a special effect for the door, missing on left.
>>11476328>>11476349This port alone shows why the Dreamcast had to be discontinued.>bad and unstable fps>low res textures>missing lightings effects >low poly character models>popping-in everywhere>blatant aliasing>short draw distanceJesus, fucking christ. Even with modern programming techniques and knowledge, the game is nearly unplayable.
>>11478680Literally no traffic or pedestrians on dreamcast. Wow
>>11479823Saying the ps2 version was a stable 60 fps is reaching mate
>>11479898I thought they were doing this shit like months ago? Why have they even released this?
>>11480564Anon this is an extremely early Alpha build done by fans as a hobby in their spare time.
>>11479823>30fps vs 60fpsThe PS2 version is definitely not 60 fps
>>11480638So what?A port is not a complete game development, but merely a translation and adaptation.Considering that GTA 3 was reverse engineered back in 2021 and the Dreamcast being a developer-friendly console, what we see in this port is nothing more than the reality of what GTA 3 would have looked like back then.
>>11479847>west-trashWhy are weebs like this.>It was a generalized engine (RenderWare) they modded to do what they needed and only cared to get it running well enough.Western games were mostly simulation heavy and physics based. Of course they didn't push the fillrate or the particle engine to their limits, and generalized engine was needed so they could build a large scale game with tons of modules fast. They were very CPU intensive however, and DC GTA 3 runs incredibly bad despite all of the downgrades involved. It's got weaker CPU and FPU than even the PSP. The only console that could run the GTA series at a perfectly stable framerate at the time was the Xbox.
>>11480638This port took 6 months. Official ports back in the 2000s usually took less than that and done by people who were more clueless about the hardware.
>>11480669>>11480681>so what?They aren't getting paid, they are doing this slowly in their spare time, it's a hobby with no set release dates, it's incomplete, and updates will come slowly. This isn't a professional project.
>>11480685They still did a better job than the original devs would have. Do you think professional game studios didn't have more important projects to take care of?
>>11480685Have you seen the Dreamcast version of Soldier of Fortune?It was made by professionals, obviously. Now go check out how bad this version is.It's dumb to think that this port of GTA 3 is not professionally made, just because it was done as a hobby.
>>11480715>this port of GTA 3 is not professionally made, just because it was done as a hobby.???WhatLook up what the word hobby means.You are lost
>>11480092We're eating the same grapes, but yours are covered in bugs.
>>11480718Professionally, I mean, in terms of quality and standards.We all know how autistic programmers are in those aspects. At the end, it's all about pride and reputation.
>>11480681>Official ports back in the 2000s usually took less than thatFirst, lol.Second, those that did were terrible in quality.
>>11477640Thanks now my Dreamcast has a virus.
>>11480564Dude it's a fan project in super early Alpha Stage. I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement.
>>11480893Fuck. its like those ps2 viruses built into most iso rips. Better do a clean wipe.
>>11477923>>11479842Why haven't they fixed camera FOV, it's too wide compared to PS2>>11479898>The physics are different tooLooks like San Andreas/Stories car handling for some reason
>>11479898>>11481787iirc the PC port always had slightly different handling
>>11480304Appreciated. Sorry for being mad.
I think this is cool but I notice modern fag gamer has gotten his greedy mits into it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MFN7QiF83MHe's calling it "the impossible port" and "the definitive impossible port". Don't tell me people are dumb enough to fall for this shit? People were impressed with games like Doom running on SNES because SNES was clearly a 2D machine. Anyone who ever did a bit of programming on it would be especially impressed, but even without that, anyone can see it took a lot of ingenuity to do it on the SNES.Similar with shit on the gba, the original Tomb Raider was impressive for the same reason. Him just trotting out a bunch of jargon and specs and concluding PS2 was much faster in one aspect so therefore:TEH IMPOSSIBLE PORT!!1!!!!1 The dreamcast is incrementally less powerful than the PS2. The difference between the Gamecub/Xbox and PS2 is far greater than that between PS2 and dreamcast. What's more it has done essentially all of those types of graphics before - just look at Crazy Taxi or Jet Set Radio. There were some concerns about big maps but it's all about how much you tone down the graphics while still achieving a nice aesthetic, once you're in the same generation it's doesn't require a lot of ingenuity and changing to get the same structures and gameplay mechanics unlike GBA/SNES stuff that was ported from 3d engines. It's the dishonesty and stupidity that bugs me, claiming this is the most impossible port of all time when it was - for want of a better word - trivial. Yes I said it - literally trivial, at least to get some version of the game, I do admire an amateur team getting it to look good.
>>114819821. Stop linking to YouTube channels and giving them free views and advertising. 2. If you are him, then buy an ad like other people do. Stop advertising and pretending to be someone else.3. I don't care what video essay channels have to say. Especially "video game" essay channels. 99% of them are trash looking to cash in on nostalgia and make money. I can literally count on one hand the video game channels I actually respect. People who actually put in work and research and inform people. Not just ramble for 30 minutes to get more YouTube ad money (videos that are at least 10 minutes get access to putting more ads in their videos and make more money). When their video could have been over in 5 minutes without the rambling.
>>11481982The guy gets a lot of things wrong when talking about technical information about the game and the Dreamcast.
>>11481982This nibba said the Dreamcast doesn't have much vram and that will hinder the game? Lmao.
I find these backports retarded. I will get hate replies, but fuck you, this is stupid
>>11481982>The difference between the Gamecub/Xbox and PS2 is far greater than that between PS2 and dreamcastPlease... give me a break.Aside from the interlacing stuff, which is not a problem given the CRT context of the 2000s, Gamecube and Xbox are not far ahead of the PS2.But muh RE4 on GC: game runs with black bars. Less rendering load, reason why it looks better than the ps2 version. PS2 version has no black bars. But muh HL2, Far Cry and Chaos Theory: remove your nostalgia glasses for once. Those games looks and run like shit on the xbox and should have never been ported.Dreamcast are half of a generation behind the ps2, gc and xbox.
I knew it could be done.
>>11479903I strongly disagree with this, actually Western games were the best graphical displays on those consoles.
I just want to play vice city
>>11482105That made me laugh and made me realise it's literally him.I hope you read this, you clueless dork
>>11477536I mean there's not really a point to playing this on Dreamcast so much as this is a really impressive proof of concept by some talented programmers. I don't think I'll ever play it beyond maybe loading it one day for a curiosity on the ODE, but it's very cool to see what they can do.
>>11482334>ps2 was about as good as xbox and gamecube and way better than dreamcast>because mom said so!!!I would honestly have more respect for the self-awareness it would take to post the greentexted instead of these mental gymastics to try to pretend PS2 was anything near gamecube or xbox in almost any game. Why are PS2 owners so afraid of being paired with dreamcast? It was PS2 and dreamcast - generation 6.0, gamecube and xbox generation 6.5. Yes PS2 got the games looking decent due to their massive budgets, that was the only reason. No laws of physics or of reality are going to change that.
>>11482382>Yes PS2 got the games looking decent due to their massive budgets, that was the only reason.This is actually true. The budgets were high enough that some PS2 Developers were able to write custom software code into the game to create special effects that the PS2 hardware didn't natively support (like some lighting effects and texture effects). It wasn't done often and there were some downsides (like a drop in FPS), but for some games with enough time and money it did happen.
>>11478286>It was in development for Dreamcast until Sega announced they were pulling out of the console market. Then Rockstar switched to PS2 development instead.I often see this parroted on this board and it’s categorically false. Development on PS2 began long before Sega announced the Dreamcast’s discontinuation.
>>11482443Also, development on Dreamcast never made it beyond an early prototype. Claiming that it was in active development for Dreamcast right up until the console was discontinued is a straight up lie.
>>11482443Nah. It was coming to Dreamcast. Sega pulling out of the market shocked everyone in the industry. Many went from making fun of Sega to crying about Sega leaving.
>>11482558Absolutely not true.
I know it's a port for a dated 2001 console (like GTA 3 running on a Geforce 256), but why does it look bad and at the same time can't 30fps?
>>11482595it's not quite done. they even had to rewrite the renderer to take advantage of the dreamcast GPU.
>>11482595It's not finished. It's a work in progress. What don't you understand?Why does everyone keep asking this same question over and over in the thread?
>>11476328Why does it look so shitty? I thought the dreamcast was supposed to be a power house.
>>11482610>It's not finished. It's a work in progress.So your delusion expect that a 1998 hardware will outperform a 2001 hardware?
>>11482009>>11482038This, what the fuck is this retard talking about?>a relative small amount of vram that the Dreamcast supportsA relatively small amount compared to what? The Dreamcast has TWICE as much vram as the PS2Also, "supports"? What an odd way to phrase it
>>11482048Why do you care at all?
>>11477825>spending $2000 on a PC in the early 2000sTech illiterate
>>11479859Post processing in GTA 3 was ugly as fuck anyway, but they've shown it working in some videos. Don't know if it's been stripped out permanently tho.
>>11482732Irrelevant. A decent gaming PC in the early 00s would still have been significantly more expensive and powerful than the Dreamcast.
Why is this thread filled with people saying stuff like>wHy Is ThIs PoRt So BaD? iT'S sO uNpRoFeSsIoNaL.>tHe FpS iS sO lOw. ThIs PrOvEs DrEaMcAsT cAn't RuN iT!>eArLy AlPhA mEaNs NoThInG!!If you are gonna troll then at least do a better job. This is so bad.
>>11482720>The Dreamcast has TWICE as much vram as the PS2Large chunk of PS2's VRAM was mostly only for framebuffering. The RAM->VRAM bandwidth is insane so devs could simply transfer the assets from the main RAM on the go. The peak transfer rate is over 3GB/s. On the dreamcast it's more like 700MB/s or so, and that's the peak. >>11477825>>11482739PCs were more expensive in 1999, but not that expensive, if you could assemble it by yourself. AMD K6-II CPUs and Pentium MMX were like $100 and motherboards were $60-$90. 64MB RAM was $67. Voodoo 3 3000 was price cut to $150 later that year if I recall. There's not enough RAM for GTA 3 port, but that port was only released in 2002. Building a $600-ish gaming PC that could run GTA 3 at 20-30 fps was possible.In late 2002 when GTA 3 port for PC was released, you could go way more crazy with budget parts. 1.7GHz Athlon CPU for $60, GeForce MX460 for under $90, 128MB RAM for $15, used HDD + used CD drive for $80, this thing will run GTA 3 way above 60 fps. PC gaming wasn't so expensive anymore.
>>11482779Are they porting san andreas yet
>>11478152This is less than what I thought. Even just trying to mod certain games involves more installations.
>>11482720>This, what the fuck is this retard talking about?He doesn't even write his own scripts, or if he does he make shit up constantly that proves he's never played the game I'm question. Nobody would honestly say "I loved Metroid Prime back in the day, what an absolute classic" then immediately go on to mispronounce Talon IV.
>>11479962Nta, but I kind of agree. I like the DC well enough and I think it's pretty cool to see gta3 running on DC, but look at all the faggots trying to say it's going to be just like on PS2 when no ports are actually like the PS2 version. I don't see them being able to pull off the NPC and traffic density needed on top of the amount of clutter removed. I understand this is an alpha build and it would be cool to see them pull off something close to the PS2 version. But I'd also like to see the same team of modders (or similar) put just as much effort into decompiling and recompiling a more optimized build of the PS2 version. Because we all know it would be fucking amazing to see them add even more draw distance and npc/traffic density. Rockstar slowly built upon gta3 with vice City and San Andreas. I have 100% faith that modders could do better, but everyone is stuck on rooting for a subpar port when we could have a super powered version of the great game that already is.
>>11482960>when we could have a super powered version of the great game that already is.It exists, on PC.
https://youtu.be/cp718VgNJg0Frequent hitching when running off a CD-R
>>11482443You didn't have to be a fortune teller to realise Sega were fucked anon. It wasn't like they waited until a week before they pulled out the console race lol
>>11476947>Comes onto the retro board>Opens a thread he "doesn't care about">Cries about "nerds" on a retro videogame threadI don't get you people at all.
>>11482976It could also exist on ps2, better than a gimped DC port.
PS2 sisters... our response?? I thought Rockstar North canceled that DC version because it was impossible and that PS2 is a superior than Dreamcast... I bet Dreamcast can't handle Vice City and/or San Andreas anyways.
>>11483353>I want a novelty port>NO NOT LIKE THAT
>>11483359That's how I feel and you DC cretons are just pushing people away with your negative Nancy shitposrung. I honestly don't give a fuck about this port after participating in this thread. Pearls to swine.
>>11483203>It was in development for Dreamcast until Sega announced they were pulling out of the console market. Then Rockstar switched to PS2 development instead.Yeah, I know, but the above quote is still an insanely false claim. GTAIII was in ‘development' on Dreamcast for no more than a few months before switching over to PS2 probably in late 1999 or early 2000.
Gta 4 on ps2 would be more impressive
Yeah this is cool and everything, but Mario Party 2 on the 32X would be more impressive.
>>11483368>I honestly don't give a fuck about this port after participating in this threadYou never did, which is why you were bitching about the need for a better PS2 port as if that does not similarly handicap the game.
Whatever. What a dumb port. Wake me up when they port chicken nuggets to Taco Bell.
>>11482960>but look at all the faggots trying to say it's going to be just like on PS2Who?All I've seen are people defending it as an early work that could show improvement.
>>11483356Obbe Vermeij, who did a lot of the engine work for the games, looked at it and said they could probably do VC as well.
>>11483709Hey, Taco Bell started selling nuggies a couple weeks ago.
>>11482732With inflation it absolutely would be $2000 in today's money dipshit.
>>11483315it's that "nope nope nope perfect" meme
>>11476328it looks bad
>>11476328Why are you fags wasting your time talking about GTA3 on the Dreamcast when the moddable PC version exist?
>>11484214Why are you wasting your time talking about people taking about GTA 3 on the Dreamcast?
>>11484367Why are you wasting your time replying to an anon, "Why are you fags wasting your time talking about GTA3 on the Dreamcast when the moddable PC version exist?"
>>11482779i thought it was trolling but they're actually stupid
>>11477916>>11477989Dreamcast has half the RAM that the PS2 does and cannot stream Data from it's disc drive at anything close to the same speed. These issues and the weak CPU mean we will never see this port match the PS2 framerate. The developers of this port had to cut all the texture sizes in half just to get the game to run at all and all audio has been compressed to 16khz or lower and is only in mono. This port you are seeing has already had to be massively compromised compared to the PS2 version just to get it to run on DC Hardware.
>>11482382The gaycube was a box of shit and I'm so tired of Tendies trying to frame it as if it was in the same bracket as the Xbox, it wasn't it was nowhere near it, it had less RAM than the PS2 and was gimped by it's shitty tiny discs from the get go.
>>11484610>cannot stream Data from it's disc drive at anything close to the same speed.So.... a DVD player might have helped?
>>11482849>Large chunk of PS2's VRAM was mostly only for framebuffering. The RAM->VRAM bandwidth is insane so devs could simply transfer the assets from the main RAM on the go. The peak transfer rate is over 3GB/s. On the dreamcast it's more like 700MB/s or so, and that's the peak.This guy gets it, first person I've saw in this thread that actually understands the hardware of these consoles. This idea that the PS" "only had 4mb of VRAM" is the most retarded shit that always get's thrown around on here, PS2 had 36mb of RDRAM which was incredibly expensive and high bandwidth vs everything else on the market. Developers were free to use this entire 36mb for storing game assets as it all worked at the same speeds and could be accessed over the same gigantic Bus. Early games on the console had not figured this out yet and this is why many launch titles look very basic and blurry, but by 2001 every dev, including the ones making the renderware engine, understood how to fully utilise the PS2's entire 36MB of available RAM. Honestly how stupid are people on here to think that a game like GTA 3 or MGS2/3 could ever run on only 4mb of VRAM?
>>11484632Yes obviously, the PS2's DVD drive, the bandwidth it could stream and the large amounts of storage it could hold where a massive factor in it's success as a games machine. That's what happens when you create vastly superior hardware and make a a more capable machine than your opponents.
Castfags utterly destroyed itt
>>11484643Would you say that DVD drive, allowing for superior games, could have... saved the dreamcast?
>>11483709>Whatever. What a dumb portits better than low effort shit like ports of breakers and captain tomaday that no one likes
>>11482382>Why are PS2 owners so afraid of being paired with dreamcastI'm sorry, but your nostalgia empathy for the Dreamcast is just delusion mixed with pity.Dreamcast is a pathetic console made by subhumans at Sega. Everything is wrong about this console: the hardware, the controller, VMU, disc format, the color... and also the console name DREAMCAST (like wtf... ) Games like Shenmue, Seaman and D2 show how mentally ill Sega, as a whole, was at that time.Therefore, such an inferior and ridiculous product should never be compared to the Sony Playstation 2.
>>11482691Cunts like you just prove his point. This is what clickbaiters making videos and tweets for every bit of fuckin' progress on something like this just pollutes discussion to the absolute dregs, this shit hasn't even been in development six fucking months yet. You shouldn't be gauging shit from it.
Pulling the plug was SEGA's smartest decision.
>>11484984that port was literally unfinished
>>11484925>Everything is wrong about this console: the hardware, the controller, VMU, disc format, the color... and also the console name DREAMCAST (like wtf... ) Games like Shenmue, Seaman and D2 show how mentally ill Sega, as a whole, was at that time.Spot on. Not to mention they chose to cash in on the dot net bubble instead of adding a second analog stick. The hardware was both too expensive for 1998 yet not good enough for 2000+. They had no idea what they were doing.
>>11485135The console was fine. It sold 10 million units in 18 months. It was on track to exceed the sales of the Sega Genesis. But Sega just ran out of money because the failure of the Sega Saturn financially crippled the company.
>>11483703Nobody asked for a PS2 port, moron. He asked for a better build of the original version, which is the PS2 version. Given time, devs can pull off amazing feats or just straight up fabricate insane things fairly quickly(David braben). Look how tomb raider is on gba, because a dev focused autistically on a theme. To better prove my point, there is that modder who rewrote sm64 a bunch of times and got it to run 60fps on real hardware( https://youtu.be/6PdlXGyf6F8?si=MLmw6xug5iYR7KPF ). If a modder wanted to they could fixate on doing this for gta3 on PS2. The point other anon was making, was, that even if the Dreamcast version made it to a level that was on par or surpasses vanilla gta3 on PS2; the PS2 version can still be optimized to outperform the DC version.
>>11485135Dreamcast actually sounds cool. Unlike PS2 or Xbox.
>>11484753I don't think so. Sony helped develop the DVD format and I don't think they were going to just willy nilly hand it over to Sega at the peak of their rivalry. Same reason GC didn't and Xbox had a special installer needed to play DVDs. They wouldve got taxed for using DVDs.
>>11483368>I honestly don't give a fuck about this port after participating in this thread.I don't think I've ever seen a homebrew port of a game create such a shitstorm like this. >complaining about how the devs use their free time>getting mad that they did this at all>getting mad that the alpha build isn't up to the same spec as a commercial release >perpetual seething about the Dreamcast and the PS2The number of grown men it has caused to throw autistic tantrums over the dumbest, pettiest shit imaginable is both surreal and delightful.I hope they do Vice City next.
>>11485180It's the inference that the DC port will be better than the PS2 version in its final build, or the hope that it will. The PS2 gets attacked more than oot lately. /Vr/ is the place to bash the most popular things and the PS2 is by far the most popular thing.
>>11485192i hope the PS2 reads this bro
>>11485195What is this fucking Facebook now? Kwab.
>>11484639N64 also used RDRAM, but their implementation was retarded. RDRAM provide high bandwidth but also high latency. Combined with single channel architecture, the memory crippled the performance.>>11485139>It sold 10 million units in 18 months.At a big loss. Not a great sign. It was far too cheap to make much profit for Sega.>It was on track to exceed the sales of the Sega Genesis.Genesis was never sold at a loss, or at least barely. It's a money printer.>But Sega just ran out of money because the failure of the Sega Saturn financially crippled the company.Their arcade business was also in decline. They failed to adapt with the times.>>11485173They all sound lame and have really lame logos. Atari was the only retro company with good naming and cool logos. XEGS, Falcon, Lynx, Panther, Jaguar, they knew their shit.
>>11485192There's a chance they could use parlor tricks to enhance it in some ways beyond the PS2 port, what with GTA3 being an early-gen game that got several enhanced re-releases between PC and Xbox, and the DC version using the PC port as its base, but it'd be parlor tricks and lower polygon counts.Something about all the ports of that entire trilogy got lost in translation from PS2 to other platforms. >PS2 GTA3 looks dark and gloomy like NYC tends to in the cold>PS2 VC looks extra vibrant and colorful like Miami would in the heat>PS2 SA looks orange and hazy like LA wouldPC/Xbox had better graphics but the atmosphere between all 3 games looks samey.
>>11485180Sega and Nintendo are the two most shilled companies on this board, or even the retro gaming communities on the internet as a whole. Sega hardware has a mythical status for their fanboys. I think it's why many got annoyed. Console warring generates toxicity everywhere.
>>11485212>Something about all the ports of that entire trilogy got lost in translation from PS2 to other platforms.Rockstar made extensive use of PS2's hardware for post processing. It can't be translated to other platforms.
>>11476328What's with the ghosting effect, it's awful.
>>11485217Yeah, >>11482960>no ports are actually like the PS2 version.This is the truth. they don't feel the same and they don't look the same. The DC version is a port of the PC port iirc, but withassive rewritings. So take that for what you will.
>>11485214You're not wrong, but the Dreamcast scene is, in all fairness, an anomaly because its homebrew scene started up while the console was current and grew rapidly in the years immediately following its discontinuation. It's a bit like the C64 in that regard. A lot of the same people who were in it then as young kids trying to make the best of a system that got pulled prematurely are still in it now as grown adults who do well for themselves and continue to support it as a hobby, out of love, with a lot more experience under their belt. They even made their own SDK (the one used for DCA3) for it so anyone could produce and sell their own commercial games. It's quite unique in that regard. A lot of homebrew scenes that reached higher heights later - Xbox/DS/PSP etc - came and went with the times and then largely fell off. A lot of older systems like the A7800, Genesis/32X, 3DO, Saturn, N64, etc didn't have much in the way of homebrew at all until the past few years. It's all great to see, of course, but the roots of those scenes are a bit different. The actual DC homebrew scene might have had disdain for Sony in like, 2002, but all the people at its core moved on a long time ago. The nexus of 4chan is and always will be b8, and as long as consolewarring can yield a healthy crop of (you)s, anons will sneed their feed and seed accordingly.>>11485217Newer hardware probably could with ease and I think there are mods for the PC versions that bring it back, but I get where you're coming from. MGS2 was similar. The Xbox port was lacking in a similar way despite Xbox being much more powerful.
>>11476328GTA
>>11485220Yeah, the FIRST thing you should do is go to settings, and toggle Trails off in the gfx setting. I told the team they should consider this as a default setting to be honest, because the trails look like hot garbage.I think bc it was a Rockstar stylistic design choice they are hesitant to do anything, but it doesn't look great on PS2 or DC, its far better to toggle off. Looks SO clean after, you will be surprised.
>>11485179It was a dongle for the Xbox, because Sony had a patent I believe on a game console with native DVD play back ability. Xbox was forced to have a dongle accessory, or buy a license - the xbox was always capable though since XBMC/mods removed that requirement.
>>11484925>Everything is wrong about this console: the hardware, the controller, VMU, disc format, the color>>11485135 (prob 11484925 replying to himself)>Spot on. Not to mention they chose to cash in on the dot net bubble instead of adding a second analog stick. The hardware was both too expensive for 1998 yet not good enough for 2000+. They had no idea what they were doing.The hardware was extremely good dude. You obviously are morons.Sega came into that generation proper to be honest. You have a larger capacity disc (DVD was not in every home at that point, and it was obvious CD's were too small by the end of the PS1). Sega came with a larger capacity disk. +1The dreamcast was also extremely easy to develop for when compared to other platforms at that time. It also partnered with MS for the opportunities it presented with better Software Development, as well as potential ports and developer support. +2The VMU/Controller only problem was lacking dual analog, which wasnt figured out as a proper control scheme by that time either. Once dual sticks became the norm, this argument hits -but at the time, there was more confusion on why dual analog made sense. The VMU on the other hand, was truly amazing concept. Supported arcade for DLC/save, you could take it the the arcade and unlock items for your home games. Supported VMU to VMU save, or gaming - just imagine what future revisions of this device would have seen had it succeeded. Sony even tried to copy it with the pocketstation - it was a novel concept. +0.5 because you hate on the lacking dual analog (even though the console can easily support it now and would have been able to with a revised controller had it survived)"Cash in on the dot com bubble" - they let you literally use any ISP you could to connect, including many free ones. They had no paid online service, you could connect to servers and consoles to play one another. You could Download Content for games. You could surf the net. +10
>>11485721too bad turning trails off in III and VC fucks up the colors. they should consider something like that sharptrails mod on PC.
>>11482443>>11482510>1 GB game that uses exactly 1 analog and mostly 6 buttonsI mean, it's definitely believable even if it's false.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TckwhzZxgQ
>>11486054No, it isn’t believable because that’s not how game development timeframes work. Rockstar most likely began development on PS2 sometime in early 2000.
>>11483929And he's pretty much right.Code wise both GTA3 and Vice City are literally the same game.
>>11485829>The hardware was extremely good dude.I was saying it's too good for Sega, they were bleeding money. They should've saved money wherever they could. Here's my idea:>MUCH cheaper GPU. They should've stayed with Nvidia because they were long time partners and Riva was the most cost efficient solution. Riva 128 had 1 TMU and only needed less than 1/3 of the transistors PowerVR2 had and the "per polygon" mipmapping solution while ugly was the most memory and computing efficient. Devs can >also unlike tiled rendering solution, there's no polygon overdraw with nvidia's or 3dfx's solution. Tiled rendering causes several polygons to be drawn multiple times when there's an overlap. Polygon count was more important to Dreamcast than texture and T&L qualities if they wanted it to be future proof.>VRAM should've been halved to 4MB since memory was expensive, resolution should've been 480i instead of 480p, and color depth could be reduced to minimize VRAM usage. A simple blitter unit could be added to minimize CPU overhead when streaming textures if needed.>RAM expansion port since 16MB is a hindrance for future games.>HDD and/or DVD drive expansion port, because GDROM is slow and not future proof.>Ethernet port instead of a fucking modem. Their priorities were all over the place.>Two cheap normal potentiometer analog sticks.>No controller gimmicks, please. What a waste of R&D budget.
>>11486784And I forgot to add this one.>Using ARM7 for sound chip is expensive and dumb. Should've reused Saturn's simpler sound chip (68EC000, 512KB RAM)
>>11476986PS2 couldn't render at 640x480 due to a bug on the graphics synthesizer according to one of the Criterion devs. I think he mentions it in the same thread on beyond3d where he said Burnout 3 wasn't feasible on Gamecube.
>>11486828That is retarded, you know that? Any bug like that would've been picked up by Sony early on. There's plenty of 640x480 progressive games on PS2.
>>11486831Outputting in 480p doesn't mean the game is rendered in 480p
>>11485171>Nobody asked for a PS2 port, moron. He asked for a better build of the original version, which is the PS2 versionRE3 is based on the PC version, so any effort to bring it to PS2 would inevitably be a port. All Dreamcast and PS2 homebrew are novelties given the fact you are posting this from a PC with 8 CPU cores and 32GB of RAM, and the PS2 is no more deserving of a novelty port than the Dreamcast.Read it like this:>The point I was making, was, that even if a PS2 version of re3 made it to a level that was on par or surpasses vanilla gta3 on PS2; the PC version can still be optimized to outperform the PS2 versionYou are arguing from the Dreamcast's redundance while missing the PS2's own.
>>11486816Getting a retro game ported to a retro game console, even if it’s in current year is retro imo. There’s dedicated homebrew general so while you could argue or complain about that - this is one thread on the topic and started on the alpha release - noones forcing you to read, nor is it being spammed about. Conversations could be more productive though.
>>11486835??? How does it make any sense that the PS2 can handle a 640 wide framebuffer but cannot do any mathematics within the bounds of the frame??? How does it make any sense there would be such a critical design error (that somehow has zero knock-on consequences) that Sony simply simply tolerated? Games process OFF-SCREEN objects CONSTANTLY and the PS2 has a fill rate of 1.2 gigapixels/s, so how does it make any sense that mathematical operations can't fill a measly area of 640x480?PS2 games tend to run at a lower resolution to conserve VRAM. Some devs had the memory to spare and ran their games at 640x480.
>>11486828>I think he mentions it in the same thread on beyond3d where he said Burnout 3 wasn't feasible on Gamecube.Literally never happened.
>>11486850Ps2 can literally output to 1080p with homebrew and two retail games have 1080i modes but they don't even run at 640x480 but instead 576x480
>>11479070Something about finding out that transfer speed between main RAM and VRAM was very fast, so fast that they could constantly swap data between main RAM and VRAM, so they could reserve more memory for framebuffer or textures.
>>11486784PowerVR's solution was inexpensive since it only required a 64-bit memory bus and matched or outperformed comparable 128-bit chips of its time, like the Riva 128. If you want to substitute the graphics chip, you will need to double the VRAM chips from four to eight.Memory was famously not expensive from 1996-1999 and so VRAM should have remained at 8MB. A small pool of VRAM worked for the PS2 because Sony's later release allowed a smaller process node required for the massive transistor budget of its fast and wide EDRAM. Everything else I agree with, except:>>11486814The choice for using an Arm7 processor was probably done, I'm guessing, by Yamaha and was probably done because it had a more advanced and modern ISA and was, in fact, probably cheaper. It might have had less transistors than the 68000 or was at least comparable. 68K was largely dead anyway while ARM was growing.
>>11487041>PowerVR's solution was inexpensiveIt was a 10 million transistor GPU on 250nm process, as opposed to Riva's 3.5 million transistors on 350nm process. NEC ran into manufacturing problems and failed to ship enough chips at the console's launch due to the new nodes needed to manufacture this complex chip. >it only required a 64-bit memory bus and matched or outperformed comparable 128-bit chips of its time>you will need to double the VRAM chips from four to eight.Really? All the Riva cards I've seen have 4 RAM chips too, both the 4MB and 8MB Riva 128ZX. And due to how Dreamcast's tiled rendering works, which supports parallel rendering, wouldn't it need more memory channels despite the lower bus width? Riva is an UMA architecture so it could work with only one.>It might have had less transistors than the 68000 or was at least comparableARM700 has 543,000 and ARM710 has almost 600,000. ARM7DI should have a similar amount to either of them. 68K as the name suggests only has 68K, and 68EC000 is the cheaper stripped version of 68K, so probably less than that.>68K was largely dead anywayIt was and still is produced everywhere. In the mid to late 90s the 68K based DragonBall chip could be found in many cars and almost all PDAs.
>>11485256>The actual DC homebrew scene might have had disdain for Sony in like, 2002, but all the people at its core moved on a long time ago.The fanboys still have disdain for other systems, just like nintendo fanboys. Segaretro has hardware comparison pages.
>>11486874>Ps2 can literally output to 1080p with homebrewLiar>and two retail games have 1080i modes 1080p ≠ 1080i, faggot. PS2 can't even handle 720p. Shut the fuck up.
>>11476328GameCube sisters... our response??
>>11476328wow, I wonder now if San Andreas can be optimized enough that it can run on the Dreamcast above slideshow-tier FPS.
>>11487761this seemed like a passion project by one/bunch of dreamcast enthusiast porting stuff to it just for the hell of it, the gamecube definitely can run gta 3 if allowed to.
>>11487742>Useful facts are consolewarringSo documents used by actual game Devs are just disdainful?
>>11489419Trying to optimize GTASA for Dreamcast would require miracles and a lot of autism
>>11489584>Useful facts Not really useful, it's not a system documentation, just comparing rough measurements of hardware performance between unrelated systems.
>>11487742The Dreamcast homebrew scene I was talking about goes back way before Sega Retro ever existed. Sega Retro is an extension of Sonic Retro and its people, and Sonic Retro/Sonic Cult was frankly one of the worst corners of the internet back in the day despite its talents.
>>11490119Say what you want about Sonic Retro and its furfag community, but they didn't hesitate to kick out a pedo as soon as they found him out. Guy had great technical skills but he was a fucking asshole too.
>>11490407>as soon as they found him outNot quite. Tweaker was an admin and spent quite a while being weirdly infatuated with Kid Goku and peppering his increasingly disturbing apologist POV into everything before he finally crossed a line too far. It'd be one thing if that place wasn't a proto-reddit full of elitist snobs and degens who banned people for shitposting, but he was their guy. What's more, he was one of their leaders, and his name is still all over romhacks from that era. Fuck Sonic Retro.Long way around to say that Sega Retro does not reflect the Dreamcast homebrew community.
>>11490452>and his name is still all over romhacks from that era.That's an odd criticism. It's not like someone's gonna go through all the romhacks and patch his name out.
>>11490608Should have dropped the "still" form that sentence - no need to tear down statues, just pointing out that it's a major part of their legacy
>>11490407>>11490452>gay pedo is a gokubro/sonicfagWhy am I not surprised?
>>114908943-0
>>11490894Fuck you!!!!
>>11476328And the award for the most “thing nobody asked for” goes to…
>>11489419Claude is basically a hobo if you think about it.before GTA3 he just ran around the country doing races and robbing banks. after the events of the game he probably fucks off to upstate, as the whole city hates him.besides, it's a nice jacket, who needs anything else?
>>11491338>after the events of the game he probably fucks off to upstate, as the whole city hates him.yeah thats a fair assesment to make, hes probably gonna do the same thing there just robbing and racing.>picI like how gta 3 and lcs were the only gta games that tries to show the game doesnt set on a island
>>11489419>optimized enough that it can run on the Dreamcast>above slideshow-tier FPS.The only way, sadly.
>>11477907>>11487761Unfortunately, for some reason, the GameCube cannot handle open world sandbox games properly.Too many things happening at the same time makes the GameCube hardware shit its pants.
>>11492010mmmm imagine the hot coffee in those graphics
>>11479913DOA2 is literally magic and nobody knows how they pushed that many polygons per second at 60 FPS according to these GTA3 DC devs.
>>11486831There were multiple major bugs on the N64 that hugely hampered performance and Nintendo knew of and just ignored because they didn't want to delay the console anymore.Hardware bugs are pretty common even nowadays like for example nearly every AMD GPU getting hyped to shit and ending up with shitty performance, clocks, and disabled features.
>>11492010If you're of a certain age like me, playing at 20 fps isn't really a big deal at all. I think this is a very good port so far, almost retail level quality and it's not even finished yet.
>>11476328How come DC homebrew devs managed to get GTA 3 running on the Dreamcast at a decent framerate but Super Mario 64 is somehow impossible to make playable?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLpfdeLk3rI
>>11476328What's your golden goose homebrew port Dreamcast bros? Holding out for Atomiswave Monkey Ball. Dare I might even say Sonic Heroes since Renderware was reverse engineered?
>>11493486GTA3 is more interesting
>>11493486Dreamcast used powerVR GPU, a GPU architecture which was commercially available for windows and supported Direct X and OpenGL, the dreamcast itself can run games in windows CE mode which uses a custome version of Direct X.This dreamcast GTA 3 port is a port of GTA 3 for PC, so the source code was already written to use direct X graphics API's. For this reasoning I imagine it was relatively simple to port GTA 3 to dreamcast and at times you could probably use the exact same Direct X functions and commands from the libraries or only after to alter them slightly.
>>11493502Some PSP games, like any of the God of wars, DBZ Shin Butoden or Tag Team Tenkaichi (i'm almost sure the Dreamcast can't run this one without some major cut).
>>11493486both previous replies are wrong. the versions being played are like a decade old attempt. They havent been built or updated to use the latest dev kits, and the old dev is thinking about taking it on again.Sound was most of the issue, I think I can tackle it - I will after GTA3 Wraps
>>11476328Doom 64 and GTA3, Dreamcast is off to a strong start this year.>>11489419Vice City maybe.
>>11493981>Vice City maybe.most likely since San Andreas' source code was never leaked unlike 3 and Vice City
>>11494212reverse disassembly projects have become far more sophisticated over the past few years. i wouldn't be surprised if we got a fully compilable GTA SA source code sooner or later using the PC port as the base
>>11489419>need to swap discs when you leave los Santos>need to swap discs again when you want to go backWould be kino.
>>11495551Just remove the radio stations and voiced dialogue. Problem solved.
>>11493529Dreamcast only uses directx if you put windows on the game iso; the Dreamcast does not use Windows CE as its operating system
>>11495571>just take away important parts of the game that everyone lovedStarting to see why the dreamcast failed.
>look up cdi>need to compile it from the actual gamefuck off upload the cdi
>>11496237lol owned
>>11493723Probably my own fault for getting fooled, but I saw a DC Talk thread talking about how surprisingly difficult a Super Mario 64 port would be given the Dreamcast's bottlenecked memory not enough for the PC port to run properly.https://www.dreamcast-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13427
>>11492270Hardcore is the game that made cookieface curse the PS2 and swear to never develop for it again.
>>11483315probably doesn't know how to use the catalog
>>11476328Nah. I prefer the PC version because at least I can play as Deadpool and ride the Batmobile instead of wasting my time on inferior ports.
>>11495571I mean to see if it can actually run on dreamcast then that could work but then you'd rip out half of what makes SA so good.
>>11496312nah, they still do think that its tough to acheive, but there has been some optimism given what was able to be done with GTA3, and original attempt at SM64 on DC was using a very old version of the SDK without alot of the new optimizations and enhancements. So the original author mrneo expressed some interest in revisiting, but if he doesn't I was planning to fork and begin an attempt to continue
>>11493502it was gta 3 for me, so i guess id like to see driver 2 now, since it also got reverse engineered. there hasnt been a single 3d sonic to be reverse engineered so it seems fairly unlikely as of now unfortunately as much as i'd like to see heroes>>11494516the issue isnt that its not possible. its that someone was doing it and rockstar sued them before it was completed
>>11498686your confusing my statement about the SM64 Port to Dreamcast, and attributing it to GTA3. GTA3 RE3 project or whatever is the one that halted due to Rockstar, SM64 port to DC was just abandoned 5 years ago.https://github.com/mrneo240/sm64-portBut lots of advancements in knowledge and the SDK now so it is due for at the very least a recompile.
>>11498694i was talking about your remark about san andreas not mario 64SA is also a much more graphically intense game that took full advantage of the PS2 so i think expecting a "retail quality" port to DC as we're getting with gta 3 is a bit delusional. VC would probably be possible tho
>>11489419>>11491338PC version implies he does change clothes, and even grows and styles his facial hair.Lest we forget the rarely used alternate outfit skin from the original PC release of GTA3.He just happens to be wearing a similar outfit in 1992.BTW I just want to say I really prefer the "comic book" style faces from 3 and VC compared to whatever you want to call the San Andreas faces.
>>11498707>SA is also a much more graphically intense game that took full advantage of the PS2
>>11498707you know what, it was not me actually and I totally thought it was. That was my bad. thought the comment was addressed to one of my messages. sorry.anyway, heres an update too - they have even support for modshttps://x.com/falco_girgis/status/1876443671853228435
>>11498751this is a one-off interior, not the norm
>>11498772Remember when PS2 stans kept whining about Dreamcast not being able to play GTA or have high quality textures?Pepperidge farm remembers.
>>11482105>But muh RE4 on GC: game runs with black bars. Less rendering load, reason why it looks better than the ps2 version. PS2 version has no black bars. you sure it's not because many ps2 games run at 448i/p rather than 480i/p? maybe it runs at 448i/p with bars to bring it to 480i/p on the gamecube>>11482720the ps2 has twice as much system memory and can transfer memory between ram/vram extremely quickly
>>11482779most people don't know nearly enough about the topic to understand how insane it is to take a closed-source game, reverse engineer the entire engine, then modify it to work on both very different and weaker hardware, all in a hobbyist budget (nothing)this would be impressive progress if rockstar was doing it themselves, for hobbyists with access only to retail assets/code to get this far is pretty hard to believe
>>11485829the ps1 had dual analog in 1997
>>11486784hardware expansions don't really work, because games are always strongly incentivised to target the base model. this is what for example made the atari 8bit machines seem so shit, they made versions with different amounts of ram, so most of the games were made for the low ram models, making them shittier than c64 games since that always had more ram, even though the higher end ataris also had 64k ramthe reason is of course fewer people get the expansions, so you're targeting a smaller audience if you require them
>>11485721I always turn it off. Hated it from the beginning. I could see it being used as an effect occasionally for cutscenes like in MGS, but having it on all the time is irritating.>>11499849And devs couldn't figure out what to do with them until years later.the gta port has dual analog support anyway if you feel like using third party stuff.
>>11495571KOMPRESS IT
>>11485721>because the trails look like hot garbageTrails look fine on a consumer CRT
