was he a good king?
>>11500175wasn't the entire point of his whole character arc that there are no good or bad rulers only ambition
>>11500175It sounded like he was, but those close to him personally hated him for being a scheming back stabber.
>>11500175his reign was predominantly a peaceful one if that's what you're asking.
>>11500175no. i mean he eventually made even Ovelia tired of his bullshit and she's just about the gentlest soul around.
>>11500175Bro's got turnip trousers
>>11501221Ito's fanfics aren't canon
history is written by the victorhistory is full of liars
In the game's story, Delite does nothing wrong, objectively, but rewriting history to make Ramza the villain was a dick move. If Delita were smarter he'd have said Ramza was his secret agent and given him a posthumous sainthood.
>>11500323true
no such thing as a good king, monarchy is inherently immoral.
>>11503564Wrong, common men need a leader. A good leader will protect them from bad leaders.
>>11500175By all accounts he was an amazing one.
>>11502278>>11503403Even as a chronic back stabber, Delita is still the lesser evil to pretty much every other group in Ivalice, with the exception of Ramza's party.
>>11503564Are democracies the only moral system because It lets the dumb fucks, freaks and other untouchables take part in the government with all their stupidity?WHAT A GREAT SYSTEM, surely It wont devolve in tyranny
>>11504286democracy is just a veil anyway. monarchy was based, god save the queen
>>11503403why did they stop making games like this?
>>11500175Delita is a faggot who deserved to die.
>>11500175According to the history books no because he purged anyone that got in his way. Please ignore that 90% of the poeple he purged were responsible for the system being so shitty to begin with, they wrote the history books.>>11501863>history is written by the victorThis isn't true at all, history is merely written...by those who bother to write it down. The whole reason the Southern Lost Cause exists is because that history WASN'T written by the winners.
>>11505103Because it was basically all Matsuno. It's the reason he left square in the middle of FFXII's development, by his own words he got sick of having to compromise his vision with others and liked it better back when he could run games like a dictator.
>>11504286As opposed to a system that's a roll of the dice? Most kings were not Nicolas II, but most also weren't Henry V. Despite all the bullshit people say of "kings were raised their whole life to rule", the vast majority of them were pretty mediocre. Hell a bunch of kings didn't even get the "raised to rule" because the actual heir died and then they had to put his brother or uncle or something on the throne who had 0 experience preparing for the job and god knows how long he's going to live. There's a reason England has only ever had 1 king to take the name John, because he was a shit king who lucked his way into the role and botched it so badly that England forever lost their control over half of France, so no one ever took the name John again because it was seen as bad luck.>Are democracies the only moral system because It lets the dumb fucks, freaks and other untouchables take part in the government with all their stupidity?As an American, yes, if you live in a country that fucking taxes you, you should at least have a say in how it's run. It was kind of a big reason we fought a war of independence to begin with.
>>11500175no. it was clear that by the end he turned into another power hungry dirtbag same as Goltanna and Larg.
>>11505745>if you live in a country that fucking taxes you, you should at least have a say in how it's run.why? you don't know the first thing about running a country.
looks too much like a twink to take seriously
>>11506235Because I have to live in it, pic related. I actually have a stake in it all.
>>11506235Well yeah, that's why I'm not in charge. That's what the system is built around people whose decision-making is informed by people around them whose job is to be better-versed on these subjects. You can argue this isn't all that different from a king having aristocratic advisors and yes, this is true, but at least this way it causes less centralization of power and when the leader is really bad, you don't need to raise an army to get him to step down.
>>11506332But you'll run it into the ground.
>>11506235it apparently doesn't take much if movie stars and business men can beat career politicians
>>11506332that's like saying you paid for the meal at a restaurant so you should be the one giving advice to the chef in the kitchen because you're gonna be the one eating. doesn't work that way. you give money to the people who know what they're doing and in turn they take care of your retarded ass.
>>11500175isn't it confirmed in the PSP version that he wasn't?
>>11506358But that's why I'm also against populism even if I'm pro-democracy. I do believe the people should have a say, but I also think there should be safeguards so that they don't do something like vote themselves money. You don't need to tie that to a hereditary position you can't remove from power to achieve that.
>>11500175He lavishly wears a golden suit of armor, so no.
>>11506257just imagine he looks like hugo weaving
>>11506420>Food analogyAnd the the food analogy doesn't even work. I can tell the Chef that I want my meat rare, medium rare, or shoe leather well done. I can tell him I want a lot or a little sauce. I can change or modify sides as I please. Because my responsibility is to pay my money to the Chef to tailor the dining experience to my ends. While it's the Chef's responsibility to cook the food safely and tastefully to the best of his ability. If I don't have money then the Chef can tell me to fuck off. Conversely if the Chef fucks up, I can just not pay him. Looping it back to your retarded statement, you're making the argument that the people in charge can just take your money but don't consult you on major life decisions that you will then have to abide by. And this isn't even a matter of voting. It's a matter that once they get in power, they can just stop listening to you. But also continue to pluck from your every paycheck. But also call you the problem when you start complaining a little too loudly. And somehow you don't find that fucked up.
>>11507872>Conversely if the Chef fucks up, I can just not pay him.try this irl and remember me when you get trespassed.
>>11508506It's a thing in America at least, assuming you just took like a bite out of it and it was awful or something.
>>11508506dude if a chef served you a raw steak with rat shit on it, you're not paying for it. if you do, you're cucked, and your mentality is the one that will get trespassed and stepped on in life because you are weak
>>11505103It's amazing how good Matsuno's writing felt in those square games (FFT and VS) even though it had damn near zero interaction with the gameplay. It's literally just some good scenes slapped down next to your progress in an unrelated game. It shouldn't be that hard to do right? It doesn't feel like they're some works of improvisational genius no one else could aspire to. I can't call them 10/10 games for it. But everyone else sucks so fucking bad. Can you not figure out how to give someone with a real will to write a seat at the table?
>>11508562sorry but teenagers don't care about political intrique and nuanced plots. they want generic chosen one shit where you get sucked off by two hot scantily clad bimbos. i can't even say the bimbos part is unbased, however.
>>11508562I like how Matsuno doesn't do that shitty GoT>being a good person is cringething. Ramza's problem wasn't that he was a good person, it was that he was naive. He continued to fight for his beliefs. It's just that he couldn't retain his noble position while doing it.
>>11500175To the commoners who didn't know him personally? yes. To the one stabbing him for his treachery? no.
>>11500323You can't clean up everyone's trash without getting dirty.>>11500294The point of his character arc is that he is ultimately just a peasant, and being so he lacks the martial prowess to be noble, just, and defeat his enemies in open battle. He must lie, cheat, steal, and scheme because he is weak and has no other choice.Ramza on the other hand can afford to be naive and foolish because he is fantastically deadly in open battle, to the point where he was never defeated. This is implied by the gameplay, where he never loses a battle without the game ending. Thus he canonically wins every battle through violence. Furthermore, Ramza does this despite never officially completing his training and lacking any sword skills. His power is raw and unrefined by formal training that would have granted him the status of knighthood. Ramza is noble because he inherited his father's combat ability. He is noble solely due to his bloodline, and it runs true in him and not his brothers because they were defeated in battle. Dycedarg lost to a bunch of thieves and rebels of all things, and Zalbag was defeated by the Dycedarg/Adramalek hybrid organism.Delita may be a great king, but he is not noble. Nobility is purely a matter of bloodline.FFT has some socialist elements, but also many fascist ones as well.
>>11501294>fanficsShe literally tries to assassinate him during the ending and Delita turns the dagger on her and kills her.
>>11505103You didn't buy enough copies
>>11510071not Matsuno -> not canon. i don't make the rules.
>>11510094It happens in the game, so its canon
>>11510142it happened in the psp port only.
>>11510250Oh
>>11510250It will happen in the upcoming modern port as well. It's the new canon.
>>11510291it's fucking retarded and makes no sense. it'd be one thing if we were shown how Delita eventually turned into a terrible husband and king but all we get is>"NOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CANT JUST SAVE MY LIFE AND SINGLEHANDEDLY OVERTHROW THE CORRUPT ARISTORACY THAT RAVAGED OUR KINGDOM AND RULE AS A GOOD KING FOR A CHANGE!!!!1!!"this is after Delita brings her to the place where they first met and gives her flowers for her birthday btw.
>>11510327I mean he did let Ramza be defamed in death and let the church burn Orran at the stake.
pspt: king delita propagandapsx: durai papers
>>11510250It's a post-credits scene in the PS1 version>>11510410Given what we know about Deluta making problems disappear, it's more likely that Orran was locked up in a library somewhere with Balmafula or allowed to disappear in exile while an imposter was burned.>>11510327I think Ovelia believed that Delita actually killed Ramza.
>>11510410why would he ever bail out Ramza after everything we've seen from him up until that point? he made it clear that they weren't friends anymore and that he was only looking out for himself.
>>11510490Question wasn't why Delita would do it but why Ovelia might be mad at him. He maybe even let Agrias be defamed too I guess, although maybe you let Agrias die on her first mortal map.
>>11510410Orran's death was almost definitely a coverup. giving his journal to the church would be fucking retarded and Orran wasn't a stupid man.
>>11510515Even if it's just the cover story Ovelia might not know. Delita seems like the type to hide it rather than depend on her keeping a secet.
he just wanted to save his sister
>>11510529shoulda did what Ramza did and kill Jesus or whatever
>>11501863Isn't that literally the meta-context of the game? In-universe, Delita is remembered as the great, noble king who saved Ivalice in a time of turmoil, but the Durai Papers that the game is framed around reveals that he did this by being a two-faced, conniving "ends justify the means" asshole?
>>11510665ironically the fact that there was a future world where anyone cares enough about the legitimate truth for documentary proof to matter shows that Delita was in the right
>>11500175yes but Ramza would have been an better one. shame that we didn't get one last battle for the throne.
>>11511313We don't know that. The skill set for ruling is not necessarily the skill set for killing.Besides, Ramza didn't want to rule.
>>11510250Genuinely amazed that retards don't realize it's a post-credits scene in the original game. Did you beat the game, or even play it?
>>11500175OK you fuckers got my attention this time, how many FFT versions are there and which one's the best to play as a first time player>just goygle itno, YOU started the discussion now (YOU) will guide me in the right direction
>>11512459Just play the original PSX version. The redone script in the PSP version is stupid, they made almost every class take slightly longer to unlock, added some "new" boring classes with such absurd requirements you'd never unlock them naturally, and doesn't even really balance the game to make it any more challenging.
>>11512459if you mean the War of the Lions FFT storyline then there's only two versions: the original PS1 version and the PSP port. if you ask me the port is probably better simply because the translation in the original was very wonky and the port fixes a lot of that. on the downside if you play the port you'll have two or three mandatory levels that will feel jarring and out of place because they were added post hoc and have nothing to do with the story (i'm trying to avoid spoilers here) so that might dilute your experience a bit. i didn't mind it that much because the gameplay is so fun that i'm never gonna complain about more levels being added. other than that one i don't think there's any reason to not play the port.
>>11512490>>11512498alright PS1 version it is then, thanks anons
>>11509786i think about zalbaag. early off they put it in your head to lump dycedarg(D) and zalbaag(Z) together. that they dont have a strong sense of justice but this is only true for D. after learning how treacherous D is, Z was willing to destroy the entire operation and ruin D even though Z was in a comforting position. Z's undoing was that he was naïve and was just doing what he was told like a good boy.also zalbaags fate was a complete bullshit plot device. dycedarg could have simply teleported ramza(R) also but didnt cause hes the player character. what they SHOULD have done was keep Z in the lucavi battle with R. after the battle R would ask him to join the party now that he is in on the lucavi plot also. however Z knows he needs to stay at the castle to try to make things right as hes now the oldest family member, allowing R to find find their sister and expose the plot. a bit later in the story a tragic event would occur of zalbaag getting assassinated by delita as he is unaware of Zs new intentions....or zalbaag could have said "fuck it" like ramza as hes a soldier and not a tactician like dycedarg was. he didnt know how to fix shit at home so he becomes a party member, allowing R to still be leader as he was right all along.
>>11512498>other than that one i don't think there's any reason to not play the port.>sfx butchered>increased job pre-reqs for no reason>no spell dialogueThat last one is a nit-pick, but it was so cool/flavorful for casters to occasionally add dialogue to spells/abilities. Why remove it?
>>11513368i always felt the spell lines were removed for the dubbing. since the jap ver has the casting lines but doesnt have voice acting. i joke the game was just so full the could only have 1 or another.oh another nit pick>meliadoul abilities have cool names in the ps version like shellbust stab. psp is just break helm, break chest
>>11512459PS1 version has some meme translation lines that people like, PSP version has some negligible added content and a faux-Shakespeare TL like Vagrant Story or FF12 that has a lot fewer outright TL mistakes. There is a long running debate whether PSP TL with its coherence or the PS1 TL with its meme quotes is better.
>>11513452What dubbing? There's none outside the new animated cutscenes.
>>11513513the jpn ver doesnt even have that for some reason
>>11512983Zalbag needed more character development.He should've been wounded by Dycedarg with a poisoned crossbow bolt at the start of battle, persisted through to the esper fight, then when Adramalek dies he should've said something like I'm taking you with me. After that Zalbag is either teleported away, Zalbag shoves Ramza aside and gets hit with a spell intended for Ramza, or Zalbag stabs & hugs Adramalek like that one kid did to a suicide bomber and disappears with Adramalek as the esper explodes. Add a line like "I'm sorry for everything Ramza, but you must survive to finish this."
>>11513730That sounds terribleThe late rebellion against Dycedarg and the zombie kill me thing was enough to make me find him endearing and brotherly. Any more than that is just too much drippy sentimentality. The guy he owed a full redemptive death to was Delita, not Ramza.
>>11512983I like Zalbaag dying because of the "the house of Beoulve is finished forever" element.Also you definitely don't need yet another divine knight at that point in a 5 (4 minus Ramza) deployment slot game.
>>11509786This is the dumbest fucking analysis of Final Fantasy Tactics I have ever seen and trust me, I have seen some shit.
>>11514050thats what i was getting at with my conclusion. the event breaks zalbaag. since hes a better soldier then leader hes unfit to restore the family name. so either he stays and fails/dies or drops his role/rank and joins you. both choices preserve the original intention. for the latter case his class would have to be reimagined as hes clearly a generic 1 time after thought
>>11514751I seriously doubt you've ever played FFT if you have any issue with Ramza being God's anointed murderhobo.
>>11513513>the new animated cutscenes.Only reason I'm still playing. Worth it for mai waifu <3 I'm going to be pissed if Agrais doesn't get another scene...
>>11509786delita is definitely stronger than ramzaramza was just a good commander and had strong friends ramza is limited to literally throwing rocks and generic jobs while delita is a holy/ark knight on the battlefieldalso delita has an 8 inch bbc and ramza is 5 inch
>>11517138Ramza 1v1'd Wiegraf and earlier Gafgarion and as part of a team killed every esper and lolswordskills goon you meet except Orlandeau.I'm talking about what the gameplay events imply about the story, and vice versa.In the bar rumors, you occasionally hear that Balbanes or Orlandeau fought solo in a battle and slaughtered entire companies of troops. Ramza is of this tier, only more so as he does so as basically a souped up generic.You can easily solo the game without level grinding as Ramza.
