Is it fair to day that even though Sonic has Japanese roots, basically everything people know and love Sonic for is a purely American creation that Japan had nothing to do with?
>>11500216>fair to dayback to ESL class
>>11500216Yeah. Japan didn't play nor like Sonic despite Sega's best efforts. He was a multimedia icon in America through the 90s and all that multimedia nu fans love to hate on, was what created his personality, image, and appeal.For people who didn't experience the 90s, Sonic might seem a lot more Japanese because of the 3D era games and Sonic X anime being the main things, but you have to also remember Sonic was wayyyyyyyyyyyyy less popular during that era.
>>11500216The Archie comics and the animated series helped with the western feel. I remember sonic eating chili dogs in the cartoons as a kid, that's why I still love chili dogs to this day.
No, that would be a pretty dumb thing to say considering he was designed by Japanese people and his games were made by Japanese people.
>>11500216>a character designed by a Japanese man>for a Japanese game company >starting a series of games developed and published by this Japanese game company>which for a time was exclusively playable on hardware manufactured by this same Japanese game company yeah okay bro
>>11500308>character designed to appeal to westerners by looking like disney, and being a western style superhero, with a rocker/punk/pop idea of coolness inherent to western mindsSonics original love interest was literally a white woman named Madonna, he was designed for Westerners.Sonic was also based on pinball, which is far more popular in the West, Sonics media and personality also all came from Sega of America. You can't claim what you don't have. Sonic is American, he's literally red white and blue.
Japanese never liked Sonic or the Genesis.
>>11500216>to the tune of the Family Guy theme
>>11500216Sonic Adventure 2 is exceedingly anime. I can't think of an American game with at all similar narrative and cinematic and physical sensibilities. Even the superhero games like Spiderman 2 and Ultimate Spiderman are slow and grounded.
sonic (and sega) have always felt american to me
>>11500216Genesis-era western marketing was essential, but there are only superficial nods to the old western fanfiction story anymore. Adventure pretty much wiped that stuff out. Nobody's favorite Sonic games were actually made by burgers or bongs except maybe Mania
Sonic is /ourscot/. We really should be claiming him a lot more as both an American icon and as a chud hero.
>>11500862saved
>>11500857The only good Sonic is 90s Sonic, your nostalgia doesn't matterJust like Metallica from the 80s is still better than Linkin Park to anybody objective, your nostalgia is shit and baseless
>>11500216Does this really need to be debated?Sonic under America leadership was a mass media star on the level of Mickey Mouse or Buggs Bunny. His games were the most important releases of the year for the Sega brand. His presence in pop culture was ubiquitous and his character design, to this day, is still synonymous with this era.Sonic under Japanese leadership is a weird anime character, with games that were simply laughed at and mocked and absolutely no appeal to anyone but severely autistic furries
>>11500296Based ai tier brainlet
>>11500790The devs actually came to San Francisco to model all the city-based levels after it. The game is very obviously set in America, with the Golden Gate Bridge levels, the city levels, the Times Square cutscenes, a nameless American president as an actual character, and so on. Also the storyline isn't really that anime like. The space half of the story is basically star wars.
>one of the worst, ugliest mascots in video games history is AmericanI believe it.
>>11501094kek imagine being this delusional.Not to mention the fact that western devs tried shitting out so many mascots that Sonic's nowhere near the bottom 20, that goes for his American redesign too
The best sonic stories were written by japs
Is him hating water only a Sonic X thing? I don't remember him hating water in Sonic Underground and the first thing he does after defeating Chaos 0 in Sonic Adventure is enjoying the pool.
>>11502508I just looked it up he also can't swim in Underground. But he was still enjoying the pool in Sonic Adventure.
>>11502509There's a lifeguard on duty
>>11500296Yeah, so was meth
>>11502509You can die in that pool
>>11502508>>11502509He's sitting in a lawn chair, not in the pool
The bigger redpill is Sonic is black culture.
>>11502851Elaborate?
How do old console war guys here feel about the fact both Mario and Sonic are still popular with kids today, but they aren't perceived as rivals anymore?
>>11503473Sonic/Sega fans are too bitter about the Saturn and the PS1 to care about Mario anymore.
>>11502851Sonic is suburban white boy as fuck lmao.
>>11502508To be fair, hedgehogs cant swim
>>11502851My black friend said sonic seems like a game for people with no friends.
>>11500891>Sonic under America leadership was a mass media star on the level of Mickey Mouse or Buggs BunnyNo he wasn't. If anything he's closer to that level now, thanks to the movies.
>>11500216When an American makes a sonic oc that is more popular than Sonic. Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow than we can say that. You OP decided to make this a contest of popularity. And what you put forth is a sentiment only held by a tiny small amount of internet nerds who have no idea how unpopular they are.
>>11500216About as much as anything else that got a successful American tie-in that shaped how it was seen afterward.
>>11500216>Is it fair to dayno. You like a japanese product get over it.
>>11500342ozempic is also meant for americans but that doesn't mean it's american
>>11501010An American setting means nothing. The game doesn't even majority take place in America! What kind of argument is this?
>>11502851Niggas love the Sonic series yeah.
>>11501010SA2 was shounen anime as fuckMy 14 year old self loved itAnd yea it takes place in America but they also go to space and the rain forest and shit
Is this a common glitch in SA1?The same happened with Knuckles eyes.It's the gamecube version.
>>11504695Haven't seen that before and I've mostly only played GC
>>11500342>Sonic is American, he's literally red white and blue.So is Mario.
I don't like American Sonic's mohawk
>>11500216If this was still the 90s or very 00s, sure. Nowadays however most people know the Sonic universe from the Adventure games onward, they refer to Robotnik as Eggman, and they have no idea what "Mobius" is in relation to the Sonic universe. The American influence has waned significantly.
>>11505397very early 00s*
>>11502851White boys replying don't get it lmao. Ny nigga Lando Calrissian went to Cloud City to play Sonic 2 and watch DBZ. Niggas who hate on Sonic also hating on DBZ
>>11503951For kids born in the 80s, Sonic was definitely a Mickey Mouse-level phenomenon
>>11502895The Genesis was the black console of choice back then, virtually everyone who owned one played Sonic at some point. A lot of the music had a Hip-Hop/New Jack Swing vibe to it. It made obvious references to DBZ which was also popular in the black community. Sonic had swagger and attitude. Sonic just appealed to blacks in a way that Mario didn't.
Who is going to rock the place?
>>11503943We're talking about Sonic in the early 90s, not current SonicAll my black friends (in Europe) loved it back then
>>11500216>fair to day
>>11500880>how to spot a retarded Gen Xer
>>11502851Considering the heavy overlap with American DBZ and Mega Man X/Zero fans, this is true.It also had its own spic culture as well.
>>11504769>So is MarioYeah and Mario was originally pretty Western too, he was a Popeye type character fighting a King Kong parody. Once the 90s started and the iteration of Mario most are familiar with though, he became more of a "cutesy" character which is pretty JapaneseSonic in his heyday was meant to be "cool" and "rebellious" which is Western appeal in a nutshell.>>11505397While this is true, Sonics popularity also waned significantly. I know zoomers have a lot of nostalgia for "their era" but Sonic is still a B-Tier character as of this day, with only the American Hollywood movies bringing his popularity up a bit, but still not to the significance in the gaming world he had in the 90s.>>11505449Sonic is a white punk rocker, he's Bart Simpson not Michael Jackson.Also, Sonic and Transformers are two Japan originated properties that owe all of their fandom to Western audiences, I can't think of anything else like this. Sonic and Transformers also both uniquely had separate comic series for the US and UK, so that's another interesting parallel.
>>11505957>Sonic is a white punk rocker, he's Bart Simpson not Michael Jackson.That has nothing to do with being a part of black culture. DBZ is about a bunch of Japanese people and aliens but it's still a solid part of black (and Latin American) pop culture.
>>11502851>>11504489>>11505449I like Sonic but am white. Can I say the word now?
>>11501010>The space half of the story is basically star wars.so was Tenchi Muyo, anime out at the same time. Wouldn't confuse that with being American, tho...
>>11505957>Sonic is a white punk rocker, he's Bart Simpsononly in those crappy american cartoons
>>11505990I live around Detroit and knew plenty black kids and I never noticed any significant fandom of Sonic among black kids more than whites, if anything Sonic was just loved by nerdy kids which were mainly whites in the early - mid 90s, not to be offensive but they were usually the ones who's family bought them more games and toys comics etcI would almost guarantee most black Sonic fandom comes from those who were kids in the 00s era and Sonic X anime, because that seems to just be the time where a lot of black people liked anime in general when it became really mainstream and wasn't considered "weirdo" fodder anymore and pretty much every kid liked some of it regardless of race. Obviously, blacks and latinos gravitated toward DBZ more than things like Gundam because of the less brainy but more machismo focused element, just like a lot of them love pro wrestling, but Sonic I think was just another part of kid culture like anything else of the time albeit not as big as he was on the 90s, just another anime anyone might be nostalgic for along with Digimon, Pokemon, Beyblade, Yu Gi Oh, etc.
>>11506059Nah, the American Sonic personality has been his personality ever since in all Sonic media. Only autists will be like "he's more emo here, or more serious here", Sonic has always had the same snarky white guy personality of a rad dudeThe cringey Sonic Adventure games literally focused on him being into extreme sports, nothing is "whiter" than extreme sports. But regardless his personality has largely always been the same. Even in the Sonic OVA that came out around 1999, the only Japanese made Sonic media at that point, had him as a wise cracking smug overly confident guy. Sonics personality in the games even had a "too cool for school" attitude before he could speak, your historical revision is just sad
>>11506059This
>>11506086he's not the same at all in the ova or adventure as the dumb bart simpson type in the gay as fuck cartoonif anything he's more like lupin iii or something
>>11506113That's dumb, Sonic always has the exact same character traits>cocky>extreme/radical/speed it to the max>sarcastic/smarmy/quippy>uncaring casually, but caring when things get roughSometimes he might be more comedic, sometimes he might be more silly, sometimes he might be more tough, by some small percentage, but these are always the core traits of Sonic in any media. And at the end of the day, nobody cares about your autistic fixation on a couple pieces of Japanese media, because 90 percent of Sonic media is and always will be Western, as is the audience playing his games that haven't been considered "good" since the 90s and most people who play them only do because they're fans of said Western media
this dude is seriously having a melty over amerimutts being kicked out of involvement with the series after Sonic 2 and being irrelevant to the series sincenever forget that the cringey american backstory has never been and never will be canon, pic very related
>>11506120>>11506113I mean if you're in the fandom, you do know the OVA and Sonic X are like, some of the least discussed shit. It's much more focused on the litany of Western media like>AOSTH>SatAM>Underground>Archie>IDW>Boom>Prime>Live action moviesIt's a fractured mess of a fandom, but this is what it all mainly revolves around, and these are most of the people playing the games that don't even really have a coherent story or ongoing lore anymore, people just play them because they like the character Sonic and are down for anything he stars in
>>11506128Sega's Amerimutts literally did nothing for Sonic 2 except rent out office space to their Japanese overlords.
>>1150612090% of Sonic media (as in the games) is made in Japan. The American contributions at the time were dogshit like Sonic Xtreme and Sonic Boom later, and then much later a pointless clone of 25 year Japanese games. Nobody gives a shit about the worthless Archie comics or garbage like the cartoon.>his games that haven't been considered "good" since the 90sUnlike American Scrimblos like Crash and Spyro that met much worse fates the Sonic franchise has had much better staying power despite apparently nobody liking the Japanese made games. The truth is that lil kids do still like them and they certainly like the "cool" Japanese character and not the lame gay nigger in the American cartoon. So, turns out they weren't doing such a bad job after all.
>>11506120>>11506130The guy you're arguing with is a South American autist, he for some reason thinks South America is where Genesis was most popular even though it was factually the US and UK. SA can't really claim making anything relevant other than SNK arcade games because it was the only place outside of Japan they had wide distribution.
>>11506135Sonic games haven't been considered good since the 90s, and 90% of Sonic's fanbase revolves around his media since then, and in the 90s when he was 50 percent more popular than he is now, about 50 percent of that had to do with media as well.
>>11506135Sonic is Spyro-tier, that series also kept chugging along over the decades with shitty entries past its prime of the PS1 days, had shitty pointless character redesigns, all of it
>>11506139Nah. People only watch the media because of the games. Most of the media is much worse quality for that matter.
>>11506135Lol you're out of touch with the Sonic fanbase. I subscribe to all the big Sonic youtube channels, post on all the fansites, and am in every active Sonic thread on this website across the boards.It's not based on the games, at this point the games are just a bonus. More people discuss IDW than they do modern Sonic games.
>>11506137They aren't even a 90s kid either so they don't know about the Genesis era? I'm sorry, but no 90's Sonic fan has an obsessive love over Adventure era, because we know it's when Sonic fell from grace and Nintendo won.He probably is a Mexican who like said earlier, got into anime in the 00s and never even was alive in the 90's.
>>11506150That's pretty sad and pathetic, but nobody would consume any of that crap without the Sonic characters from the games.
>>11506154Nintendo didn't win anything, Sony did.
Worth noting, even Sonic Adventures soundtrack is made by an American 90's hair metal singer. There is no Sonic without 90s America.
Oh boy, another round of STI dicksucking by Xtremetards.Fucking kill yourselves, that piece of shit was a biggest potiential dumpster fire I've ever seen in my life. Mark Cerny would have jumped ship if he was involved with that trash instead of Crash.
>>11506150>I subscribe to all the big Sonic youtube channels, post on all the fansites, and am in every active Sonic thread on this website across the boards.The main Sonic fanbase is little kids, not autists on Youtube or internet forums.
>>11505957>Sonic is still a B-Tier character as of this day, with only the American Hollywood movies bringing his popularity up a bitThis is an out of touch statement. Sonic's quite literally the most popular he's ever been, he's now helming a popular movie franchise and his merch is everywhere.
>>11506168>The main Sonic fanbase is little kidsOf the American live action movies yes, not anything else....little kids play Fortnite and Robolox, not Sonic lol, you're out of touch with the world, not just Sonic fandom.Sonic is kept alive by Millennial nostalgia, and a lesser extent, zoomers like you, because in the 00s Sonic was considered a laughing stock to most of the gamer community.
>>11506174Can you read? ESL moment, you literally just said what I said. The American movies are the only reason he's more popular right now, not the games.And no he's not more popular than he was in the 90s, you weren't alive so you don't know. You didn't live when Sega was the number 2 gaming console.
>>11506120>his games that haven't been considered "good" since the 90sAre you getting this opinion from a small subset of people or what?>>11506181>Can you read? ESL momentI disagreed, because Sonic's the most popular he's ever been. Can you read?>And no he's not more popular than he was in the 90sHe actually is, I'm sorry to break it to you, but he is quite literally helming a multi million dollar movie franchise, something he never had in the 90s.
>>11506180Haha no. The primary buyers of Sonic games have always been little kids. There's a reason they're so easy. You have to be a completely delusional manchild to think those millions of sales come from balding millenials. Same for Nintendo games for that matter.>because in the 00s Sonic was considered a laughing stock to most of the gamer community.lol yeah by adult gamers. But the games aren't aimed at them anyway. Kids aren't part of a phantom "gaming community" and don't give a fuck anyway and enjoyed stuff like Heroes just fine.
>>11506181The only thing people are coming to watch the Sonic movies for is modern-day Jim Carrey being 90s Jim Carrey for 90 minutes at a time.
>>11506191You do realise Jim Carrey before these films had destroyed his career, right? The Sonic films brought it back.
>>11506206Exactly. The Sonic movies are essentially a Hollywood has-been reminding the old fogeys why they used to love him.
>>11506159Nintendo won the rivalry between it and Sega. Crawling to Nintendo to release Sonic games on their consoles must have been humiliating.
>>11506215The Sonic movies are predominately watched by families, not old people
>>11506220Old people meaning 30+
>>11506225Yeah when they're taking their kids? The Sonic films are family flicks, for the kids. That's who watches them.
>>11506228Nah, it's for nostalgic millennial manchildren who either go alone or take their kids as an excuse to see it. Kids don't give a shit about Sonic.
>>11506234What are you talking about? The Sonic films are predominately watched by kids, they are quite literally just cartoon flicks where you get to see Sonic and friends save the world. >Kids don't give a shit about Sonic.Yes they do. That's the main audience.
>>11506237Nope. Adult nostalgic normalfags, autists, furries. Many likely dragged their kids along but I guarantee no kids were asking their parents to go watch Sonic the Has-Been.
>>11506258Yes they were, I don't know what to tell you anon, but Sonic is designed and marketed towards children. They are his audience and the ones who went to watch his films. You evidently aren't his audience, even if you want that to be the case.
>>11500216Yeah? Sonic's entire creation is based around appealing to Americans and Japan's own Westaboo understanding of what America is.>ASonic is literally based on a classic American cartoon character design like Mickey Mouse or Felix mixed with an American Superhero like The Flash.>BSonic's whole vibe/theme is based around American idea's of cool like rock n' roll and pop music, and his games always had music inspired by such.>CSonic's whole persona is based around Japanese ideas of the American idea of "cool", hence him being a finger gun pointing brash "cool guy". The same way they portray every "American" character in their media>DSonic's tiniest details like wearing sneakers or being red white and blue even tie into this whole idea, or even stuff that didn't make it into the games like him being a rock star and having a blonde supermodel girlfriend.Quite literally, he was Japan's attempt to make something as "all American" as baseball or Elvis Presley. The only way he could be MORE American is if he drank Coca Cola in the games.
>>11506275That and the fact that Sonic never moved units in Japan but was extremely popular in the US, seems to make sense.
>>11506260No, he was originally designed and marketed towards them in the 90s, eventually they gave up on that when they realised his actual audience was adult furries.
>>11506338You're just flat out wrong, and likely haven't played a Sonic game in decades. He's marketed towards kids, his games are designed for kids. Sonic's shows are for kids and his movies are for kids.
>>1150613590% of Transformers are designed in Japan by TakaraTomy, but the heart of the fandom lies in the glut of cartoons made in America, even though theres exists several times more Japanese Transformers media.
>>11503951>let me tell you about your generation
>>11503959Surge exists but she isn't retro.
>>11504695>gamecubeWhy? The screen is smaller than the DC version and the lighting is fucked.
>>11506275I'm honestly surprised a lot of people don't get this point. They just keep saying "but he was made by japanese people! japanese console! japanese team! the american team didn't do anything! the western media sucks, nobody cares about it!" None of those points matter. The game was intentionally made to appeal to western audiences, and they only ever doubled down on this when it ended up being a huge hit in America and flopped in Japan. Everything up to the Heroes era was designed with an American audience in mind. There's even a story that when Sonic Team put out NiGHTS, the japanese kids saw the logo at the beginning of the game, wrote to them and asked "who is Sonic?".
>>11500216Sonic is Japanese.
>>11500216i'd say it's more that sonic is a time capsule of the 90s (and even the 2000s) as a whole rather than belonging to a specific country. people in this thread like to wax off SATAM & archie because it's what they grew up with but like >>11503959 implied, shadow's popularity alone is enough to mog sally and the freedom fighters in any decade.to put it into perspective when the boost era pretty much threw every one of sonics friends (except the genesis crew) into the void SHADOW WAS STILL FUCKING THERE WITH SONIC! appearing as bosses & playable characters in games and even in cartoons. i mean fuck, people bought a remaster of generations because it added a shadow campaign while a movie with him broke box offices. hell, sega did a "year of shadow" to hype the movie and they made some bank with it.retards like >>11506338 are delusional.>>11500234>>11505397>He was a multimedia icon in America through the 90s and all that multimedia nu fans love to hate on, was what created his personality, image, and appeal.SATAM/archie is overrated cringe. you could remove all the sonic branding from them and you wouldn't need to really change a thing while IDW sonic is just flynn and friends rehashing what they did at archie since sonic forces left the door open for them to do so.
>>11508091>made by japanese people>japanese console>japanese team >american team didn't do anything>>None of those points matter
>>11508064"she" is an ugly PoS too, don't bring that bitch up again.
>>11506150>More people discuss IDW than they do modern Sonic gamesI don't even like boost garbage but i know that pure bullshit.I'll say the comic book hacks are slowly trying to integrate themselves to the videogames because the shithole comic book companies they're with is likely going under.
>>11506140This also applies to Crash and it's in a worse state than it was right now.
>>11505995Im white too of course
>>11500216White boys, black boys, autists, emo girls, Latinos, Brazilians, degens. Why the fuck did Sonic appeal to everyone but the Japanese?
>>11508104Why would they matter? OP's question is whether Sonic is an American or Japanese sensation, and the answer is obviously that he was and still largely is an American sensation.
>>11508268But sonic is Japanese though>Pokemon is American because its popular in America
>>11508268Also David Hasselhoff is German and Drake Bell is Mexican. Sorry, I don't make the rules.
>>11508280The actual argument is this:>Sonic was designed for Americans>Sonic was almost unheard of in Japan well into the Dreamcast era>The only reason Sonic even had more than one game is because Americans liked it >All of the Japanese developers credit America to his success>Sonic in America was a whole media franchise with its own cartoon, comics, clothes, and even a Thanksgiving parade float while Japan just got an OVAPokemon was not specifically designed for Americans nor was it unheard of in Japan.
>>11508268>OP's question is whether Sonic is an American or Japanese sensationhe didnt ask that at all he asked if what people liked about sonic was purely an american creation, which is incorrect.
>>11508328It isn't incorrect. "What people liked about Sonic" is all the American catering and the American media franchise as outlined here >>11508293"But he was made by Japanese people" is just intentionally ignoring the "besides the Japanese roots" part of the question. Japanese people had nothing to do with the Macy's parade or the clothes or the comics or the commercials or the cartoon or anything regarding his success in America. Everything about Sonic's success comes down to American marketers, and the Japs admit this is true.
>>11508091Most people get it. it's just some autistic South American who rages about this every week. Japan doesn't claim Sonic, notice how DBZ comes up in these threads every time to? It's just some 00s kid Mexican who's into Adventure era and wasn't even alive in the 90s when Sonic was popular>Sonic WAS HUGE IN THE 00SNo he wasn't that's why Sega failed and became a third party developer, you dumb shit
>>11508341ok so no sonic fan likes the sonic games. A janny can delete this thread now since its apparently off topic.
>>11508346Zoomers seem to have a lot of problems reconciling their nostalgia, you see it on all the boards. On /co/ it's retards who swear the Batman with Goerge Clooney is the best just because it's the first one they saw, even though it's the worst entirely. They can't be objective because they're too culturally clueless about any history that came before them.
>>11508354How'd you get that point? Of course they did. The games sold better in America than Japan.
>>11508357>Of course they didok so how are the games not Japanese? You are asserting that nothing the Japanese contributed to sonic matters at all
>>11508360Because the games weren't made for a Japanese audience. They had American audiences in mind ever since Sonic 2.
>>11508354>>11508357Sonic was designed to appeal to AmericansSonic did appeal to AmericansSonic was extremely popular to Americans in the early - mid 90sSonic was never very popular in JapanSonic tanked in popularity during the Adventure Era, where the Japanese influence shined through the mostMath is math
>>11508367>Because the games weren't made for a Japanese audienceyou arent interested in arguing in a shared language youre just interested in making up definitions that suit your opinions. You could have told me that earlier and I wouldnt have wasted my time responding.
>>11508360Sonic without Americans is just another mascot platformer with a blue hedgehog.Sonic with Americans is a nationwide hit with lore comics cartoons toys and endless marketing that appeals to said Americans and have been the most enduring legacy. Japan made a blue hedgehog. Americans made SONIC.
>>11508375I've been arguing that for like 6 posts straight. If you came into this thread thinking that the debate was "did japanese people program the sonic games", even though the OP says "besides the Japanese origins", then obviously that wasn't what we were arguing.
>>11508293Wasn't Sonic Adventure or whatever popular a hit launch title in Japan for the Dreamcast I thought?
>>11508293>>All of the Japanese developers credit America to his successThis is like Japan crediting Europe and America for the success of the Mega Drive. The MD/Genesis is American now.Also Sonic wasn't developed for the US market, Sega needed a Mario.
>>11508424Sonic wasn't popular in Japan, he was popular in America, and every aspect of Sonic was influenced/based on America so that's probably why>ASonic is literally based on a classic American cartoon character design like Mickey Mouse or Felix mixed with an American Superhero like The Flash.>BSonic's whole vibe/theme is based around American idea's of cool like rock n' roll and pop music, and his games always had music inspired by such.>CSonic's whole persona is based around Japanese ideas of the American idea of "cool", hence him being a finger gun pointing brash "cool guy". The same way they portray every "American" character in their media>DSonic's tiniest details like wearing sneakers or being red white and blue even tie into this whole idea, or even stuff that didn't make it into the games like him being a rock star and having a blonde supermodel girlfriend.Quite literally, he was Japan's attempt to make something as "all American" as baseball or Elvis Presley. The only way he could be MORE American is if he drank Coca Cola in the games
>>11508429There is not one part of Sonic that wasn't based on America, and this is prob why he was such a hit to Americans but a flop to Japanese.
>>11508424Nobody's saying that. But what people typically attribute to and identify Sonic with comes from outside the games. It's like how Japan also made the toy that became Optimus Prime, but the comics and cartoons are what cemented Optimus in people's heads. Without America he would just be another Japanese robot.
>>11500216How many people cope with Sonic being American because they hate Japan or want the West to be seen as better?
>>11508424>Sega needed a Mario.They already had one. Sonic became the new Sega mascot because of Sega of America. >This is like Japan crediting Europe and America for the success of the Mega Drive. The MD/Genesis is American now.I could probably be moved to make a variant of this argument but I do think the American case for Sonic is much stronger than the case for the Genesis. And with the MD/Genesis I would be broader and include Europe and South America.
>>11508435But Sonic was developed by Sega of Japan not even as something to cater to the US market. How on earth can it be American?
>>11508437>Sonic became the new Sega mascot because of Sega of America.Sir I believe this is false>Sega president Hayao Nakayama decided Sega needed a flagship series and mascot to compete with Nintendo's Mario franchise. Nintendo had recently released Super Mario Bros. 3, at the time the bestselling video game ever. Sega's strategy had been based on porting its successful arcade games to the Genesis; however, Nakayama recognized that Sega needed a star character in a game that could demonstrate the power of the Genesis's hardware.[1]
>>11500216Sega was HawaiianSonic is AmericanSonic is WhiteYou can't fight me
>>11508438Sonic isn't American, he was made by the Japanese to be American. And Sonic was more popular with Americans than Japanese, so he owes Americans his success and that's where his fandom lies and where most of his important media comes from outside of the games.And yes, Sonics fandom is multi-media, just like TMNT was a comic book, but now is comics, cartoons, toys, movies, games, etc. But even just talking about games, Sonics games were only popular in America and the UK.
>>11508438>But Sonic was developed by Sega of JapanTrue just like how Optimus Prime (toy) was a product made in Japan for Japanese by Takara, Sonic (game) was made in Japan. But everything that built up Sonic in kids minds is mostly extrinsic to the games, I mean the genesis can only do so much because Sonic games really have no narrative on their own.
>>11508438>not even as something to cater to the US marketBut it was to cater to the American market. After Sonic 1 flopped in Japan and it took off like crazy in America, every game after was made specifically with Americans in mind. Japanese people were an after thought. Japanese people didn't even know who sonic was. Take Sonic Jam, the compilatjon was released while those games were still fresh, but it was a necessary compilation in Japan, because Japanese audiences didn't play any of those games, while it was an odd compilation in America.
>>11508435Not only that, but also similarly to Sonic, Transformers fandom lies almost entirely in the West. Japanese notoriously dislike Transformers, because they don't like the idea of living robots and consider it a silly childrens thing, hence all their media being overtly childish compared to the Wests, where the brand has had an adult fandom since the 90s and fan conventions and etc.
>>11500216yes
>>11508450Interesting. Also I heard that Transformers is massive in China.>>11508460Sonic's true backstory. Why he can't have one shown
>>11508450>Japanese notoriously dislike TransformersThat's not very true at all, G1 was huge in its heyday with Japanese kids and spawned lots of anime and manga way after the cancelation in 1987.Transformers just didn't appeal to otakus as much because it was for kids, but that itself spawned more kid centric robot shows from Takara like Yuusha, Granzort, Wataru, Webdiver etc
>>11508441This one is a case of both. Mark Cerny was the one who consulted with Sega of Japan about what the mascot should look like. Sega of America rejected the original design.
>>11508293>Sonic was almost unheard of in Japan well into the Dreamcast eraSonic was way less popular, but that's a slight exaggeration. The Mega Drive sold poorly in Japan, but Sonic games were still top seller for people who did buy a Mega Drive. Plus Sonic was still Sega's arcade mascot, so I'm sure many people would recognize him at least. That said, Sonic definitely was way less popular there. List of top Mega Drive games:>This is a ranking video of the sales figures in Japan for Mega Drive and Mega-CD games. (Created in anticipation of the release of Mega Drive Mini)>*Note: The "estimated sales figures" in the video are numbers calculated independently based on information from Mega Drive magazines of the time and interviews with industry professionals. (In the past, sales figures for game software were not publicly released except for a few major hits. I believe this is the first ever ranking of Mega Drive software sales in Japan.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-tUcngWEOshttps://www.reddit.com/r/SEGAGENESIS/comments/mv4quc/30_bestselling_mega_drive_titles_in_japan/ (the list in text)So Sonic games all in the top ten, but they sold like less than 10% of what they did in America. Higher figures given here for some of the games, but still very low:https://vgsales.fandom.com/wiki/SonicPossibly less accurate than the video, if their description can be trusted.
>>115084721. Puyo Puyo - 520,0002. Shining Force - 300,0003. Sonic the Hedgehog - 260,0004. Street Fighter II’ Plus - 220~310,0005. Virtua Racing - 200~260,0006. Sonic 3 - 200,0007. Shining Force II - 190,0008. Phantasy Star IV - 190,0009. Langrisser (Warsong) 2 (Mega CD) - 170,00010. Sonic 2 - 160,00011. Landstalker - 160,00012. Columns - 150-160,00013. Shining in the Darkness - 150~160,00014. Silpheed (Mega CD) - 150,00016. Super Monaco GP - 150,00017. Puyo Puyo Tsu - 140,00018. Shining Force CD (Mega CD) - 140,00019. Lunar: The Silver Star (Mega CD) - 110~140,00020. Streets of Rage II - 130,00021. Mickey Mouse Castle of Illusion - 130,00022. Phantasy Star II - 120~130,00023. Gunstar Heroes - 120~130,00024. Super Street Fighter II - 100~150,00025. Lunar: Eternal Blue (Mega CD) - 90~140,00026. Michael Jackson’s Moonwalker - 110,00027. Golden Axe - 90~100,00028. Ghouls n’ Ghosts - 90,00029. J-League Pro Striker - 80~90,00030. Advanced Daisenryaku - 80,000 + Yuyu Hakusho - 80,000
>>11508449Because being successful in the US and being exploited as a pack in by Sega of America (pretty much what Sega of Japan would have wanted as well as Super Mario World was a pack in for the SNES) makes it American.Sonic was designed by Japan at the direction of Japan for their console with a focus on matching Nintendo and general world wide sales. Why is this so important to you?
>>11508468>After Yasuhara joined Naka and Ohshima, their focus shifted to the protagonist, who Sega hoped could become its mascot.[6]:20–33,96–101 The protagonist was initially a rabbit able to grasp objects with prehensile ears, but the concept proved too complex for the hardware. The team moved on to animals that could roll into a ball, and eventually settled on Sonic, a teal hedgehog created by Ohshima.[1][3] Naka's prototype was expanded with Ohshima's character design and levels conceived by Yasuhara.[7]Are you sure?
>>11508505>SEGA considers using a Rabbit before deciding on Sonic>Nintendo considers using a Rabbit for before deciding on Squids for Splatoon
>>11508462Transformers is huge in China mainly because the live action movies took off there for some reason. They love Bayformers, think it has to do with the cars displayed.>>11508463Yes but that's the difference, Transformers is a very kiddy property in Japan and it doesn't have many older enthusiasts, where in the West it has an adult fandom. The media from both sides reflects that, with Beast Wars being informed by creators who were in touch with the earliest TF fan message boards and taking notes, and the Japanese TF follow ups all just being really goofy and low effort.
>>11500234that pic reminds me of this videohttps://youtu.be/uzK00wW1G1o
>>11508476>Lunar: The Silver Star (Mega CD) - 110~140,000and people compare this Evangelion shit to Chrono Trigger.
>>11508476>Gunstar Heroes that lowThe game was straight up made for them, the fuck?
>>11505995you always couldhttps://youtu.be/E1Xy8kxDLaE?si=W7DJon8cz1dTitqj
>>11508064surge is basically just a "non-copyright and legally distinct scourge" so penders can't sue them. sage would've been a better example but she's also not retro too.>>11509002>>11508450>and the Japanese TF follow ups all just being really goofy and low effort.japanese TF is weird to me because they'd have this goofy shit and then we'd get something like the unicron trilogy which seemed a hell of alot more edgier.there's one scene from a japanese TF series i came across (i can't remember what it was called. they were animals i think?) where the megatron equivalent just straight up physically & emotionally abused his starscream equivalent and it wasn't played up for laughs like it would be in G1 or other TF shows.
>>11509002Because Japanese know when something is silly and autistic and make no mistake about it, otakus are on the fringes of society while Americans are brazen and don't give a shif. See: Sonic fans.
>>11506154>I'm sorry, but no 90's Sonic fan has an obsessive love over Adventure era, because we know it's when Sonic fell from grace and Nintendo won.NTA but 90s sonic fan here and adventure 1 is my favorite modern sonic game next to generations so please don't speak for me.that all said. also speaking as someone who recently played through that era the problem with the adventure era (SA1,2, heroes, shadow & 06) is that sonic team either tried too hard to reinvent the wheel and/or they were more interested in anything but making another sonic game and it shows...>SA1 - "let's throw a bunch of gameplay ideas to see what sticks.">SA2 - "okay people really liked the sonic, knuckles & gamma stages from the last game. let's make a game around that.">heroes - "hmm...people really liked the sonic & shadow stages from the last game so we should just focus on that but we REALLY don't wanna drop his friends if we don't have to. let's find a way to include his friends that isn't just like how we did it in the genesis games.">sonic 06 (the end of the adventure era) - "okay we clearly went too far with heroes and shadow. let's roll back to adventure 1 & 2 and maybe keep it simple by just having variety segments during sonic and shadow's stages like tails or knuckles getting a door or pathway open for sonic for example. let's also add a third character to play as that isn't just speed focused in."...they had this urge to shove a gimmick into every sonic game during that time and they didn't get it properly out of their system until unleashed with the werehog segments.
>>11500216yes>>11500893Sonic 2 was literally made by americans in america.
>>11508476Why do games always sold very little in japan?
>>11510148>Sonic 2 was literally made by americans in america.Damn look at all these pure blooded American names
>>11510287dumbass
>>11510151Because not many people bought a Mega Drive (Sega Genesis) there. Meanwhile, the Sega Saturn was more popular in Japan than America.
>>11510287They all made it in America, therefore it is an American game.
Damn bikini schizo, do you also post here?
>>11510295*same with Sonic 3
>>11510297who? sounds like a good story
>>11510292>>11510295see >>11500893
>>11510307retard
>>11510078>unleashed with the werehog segmentsIts insane to me how it took until Unleashed for them to stop doing this. And it took until Frontiers for them to go "Playing every character in a single stage like the Genesis games is actually fun." Just baffling how it took them decades to relearn basic foundational concepts.
>>11500234Brown bricks
>>11509183Lunar is the most by the numbers, generic JRPG possible. What the fuck does it have in common with Evangelion
>>11508476I really don't think those numbers are accurate. They only list "known" sales and being a lesser console actual numbers are likely to more obscure than Famicom/SFC.For instance that same lists says Alien Soldier sold 11k copies, yet the Japanese anime Uncle From Another World references that game several times like everyone is supposed to know it.
It's interesting however that out of the 100 Megadrive best sellers in Japan, only 25 of them weren't made by Sega.Damn.
>>11511942The character designer/animation director worked for Gainax before making the game. Some of the character designs look similar to Evangelion. Both look like Nadia. Copied from a reddit comment because I'm lazy:>Yes there's a reason they're similar.>Yoshiyuki Sadamoto did the character designs for Evangelion. However prior to that Sadatomo did character works for Nadia Secret of Blue Water. Toshiyuki Kubooka - LUNAR's character designer - at one point did animation work for Nadia, so you often see his works dispersed on Nadia related items. At one point in ~1990 Nadia was a very hot animation property and you often find that Sadamoto and Kubooka bounced off one another in terms of similarity in styles.>Sadamoto would continue to work on Gainax properties, where Kubooka went on to do works for Giant Robo, the LUNAR games, and eventually the entire Idolm@ster franchise. You also find his work in other minor little things such as Albert Odyssey on SEGA Saturn.https://www.reddit.com/r/Lunar/comments/1fqjam5/ive_never_played_the_game_but_is_it_a_coincidence/>>11511954Yeah the numbers seem strange to me too, maybe I shouldn't have shared it even. Take with a huge grain of salt. But it's clear Sonic sold much less than in America at any rate.
>>11511976>generic 90s anime design means everything is the same
>>11511992They're not "the same" but they have similarities and shared roots more than just two random 90s anime designs. I wasn't the guy making the initial post anyway, I love Lunar. Just wanted to share some cool trivia.
>>11500216Idiots need to understand the difference between "western" and "westaboo." Even if he appeals to America, Sonic was still designed by Japanese who took the most appealing parts of American pop culture and filtered it through a Japanese lens. It's also why Americans like westaboo products, because it's familiar American culture remixed in a new light.Sonic is no different from games like Metal Gear, Devil May Cry, Ace Combat, etc. In all cases, they would lose greatly if they were not developed in Japan, because it's the "as seen by another culture" aspect that helps them resonate more.
>>11512093DMC past the first game is pure weebslop. Resident Evil would have been a much better example
>>11500221>d is next to s on the keyboard and you know what they meantI don't think ESL means what you think it does
>>11500308>Multiple cartoons and comics in the west>Zero mangas or anime in japan until sonic Xidk man, OP is making a good point, where is my Sonic manga?
>>11503951You mean the movies which star American/Canadian actors? That were filmed in America?
>>11512125Sonic's had multiple manga, you just never hear about them because they weren't popular enough to make it over to the west when there are western comics still going. The most notable and longest running was the really early one where Amy and Charmy debuted before making it into the games.
>>11505936>>11505563>Brown people desperately trying to cling onto white/japanese(honorary Aryans) mediaPathetic
>>11512139So name them
>>11512140More like Sonic says "It stinks!"
>>11512154Sonic is dog-whistling with the okay sign
>>11511510>And it took until Frontiers for them to go "Playing every character in a single stage like the Genesis games is actually fun." Just baffling how it took them decades to relearn basic foundational concepts.in this case it's less of sega or sonic team relearning basic foundational concepts and more of the old addage of "how can we miss you if you never go away?". by the time they went back to basics with the boost era of games most people were kinda sick of sonic's friends because of how they were shoved into everything and felt the franchise was better off without them. most of the apologists you see for sonic's friends during that time (and even now when people's views on said friends have softened) were people who either consumed non-game media like the comics & cartoons or grew up with those characters and didn't want to see them go away.
Sonic is a japanese game made by a japanese team for japanese company.How is this even remotely debatable?
>>11508472This image is strangely magical and depressing at the same time
>>11512346>by the time they went back to basics with the boost era of games most people were kinda sick of sonic's friends because of how they were shoved into everything and felt the franchise was better off without them.Funny you say that when the boost era started by them adding yet another brand new OC, but unlike previous characters she was well received by the fanbase. Why? Because her gameplay was fun and "Sonic with minor differences." People mostly hated the shitty friends because their gameplay and voice acting were shitty, not because the characters simply existed.This is also proven by Unleashed, which was panned even though it chucked all but two (three) of the shitty friends into the dumpster, because half the game was another shitty gameplay style that fans hated. It wasn't until Colors that they finally did something that was generally well received, because the gameplay was finally consistent throughout.tl;dr it was never the friends, it was the gameplay
>>11500880Metallica has always sucked though and Megadeth has always been better. Terrible analogy.
>>11501195You could have a maxed out thread about the amount of absolutely dogshit European game mascots. Hot damn they pumped out nothing but z-grade shit non stop.
>>11509205Scourge isn't Penders property anyways. Surge is overrated and liked by disturbed fucks on Twitter.
>>11512098DMC3? yeah, DMC2? It looks like something Gen X would wanna get intoDMC4? That game is 50/50
its a group effort
