What makes a Beat'em Up game good? I rarely see discussions about their design philosophy compared to other genres like platformes, but I bet most people have at least one they are very fond of.
>>11510858beat-em-ups died after the arcade era, and the only thing the genre has going for it is that it's "fun with friends"
A good beat em up is all about target prioritization and crowd control. It's like a spinning plate act except the plates are a bunch of retards that want to punch you in the face and one has a knife.
>>11510876Pretty much this. I can see why some "people" like 11510863<< might dislike them, but good beat em ups have a good rhythm about them and generally have a deceptively high skill ceiling. Sound effects and visuals are also incredibly important. It has to feel good to control those crowds.
>>11510858It's a simple and somewhat shallow genre in its basic engagement mechanics. A solid core is needed, but beyond that it's enough variety and ideas for enemies and "setpieces" what make it work.i.e. a really good combat system won't make (or save) a beat 'em up by itself: Sengoku 3 may be the definitive proof of that.
>>11510858IMO, Interesting settings, nice graphics, pumping music, good enemy and item variety is a plus. Charm is a hard thing to quantify but it is nice when they surprise you with something cool, like giant Krang in level one of Turtles in Time or the surfboard levels. The game not feeling overly drawn out is also important, you want a nice 45min to an hour long experience with a difficulty curve that neither suddenly spikes or flatlines over a few stages. The worst is when you replace lots of enemies with a handful of damage sponges that you walk up too, beat on, knock back, repeat 3 times until dead, bonus points if they keep falling off the screen and you got to wait around for them. Also try and make sure your gimmicks aren't annoying like a flying enemy that is difficult to hit or rarely vulnerable so their fight takes forever, not a fan of the Jet boss fight in SoR 2. I feel like the best state a beat up can be in is if there are lots of enemies coming on screen and you got to prioritize and move around a lot but no individual sans bosses takes to much time to deal with. Things should always be frantic but manageable and health items spaced out enough that it feels like you are just sliding onto the next base before the ball is caught.
>>11510896Agreed with all this.>they keep falling off the screen and you got to wait around for themFucking hate when this happens, especially when they get to hit me.
>>11510858A bunch off things, but enemy design, pace and solid combat are the most important.
I've always wondered if there could be a beat em up community in the same way there's a fighting game community, but I'm not sure because it seems like the whole meta game/mind games part makes fighting games fundamentally deeper, competing against a person as opposed to a bunch of AI mooks and all that. I guess you could compete over who gets the most points/kills and create mind games that way but that could detract from the spirit of co-op.
>>11510896>Also try and make sure your gimmicks aren't annoying like a flying enemy that is difficult to hit or rarely vulnerable so their fight takes forever, not a fan of the Jet boss fight in SoR 2.SoR2 has this issue everywhere particularly in Mania, big part of beat 'em ups is crowd control being challenging but fair, in SoR2 individual enemies are way too fucking fast and buffed so you have to rely on overly nerdy shit which is boring.
>>11510972Mania isn't supposed to be a "proper" difficulty. It's basically broken so you have to play it with broken cheese tactics
>>11510975Yeah but even on hardest you can notice that the game and enemies aren't really designed for 1 life play like good arcade titles. I find SoR3 better in that regard, enemies do more damage but it's easier to avoid getting hit, a bit too long though.
>>11510982Try beating arcade Final Fight with one life without using any cheese tactics
>>11510858>What makes a Beat'em Up game good?a varied move set, colorful enemies, good level design with memorable landscape, a fighting system which is tough but prioritizes skill and reflexes allowing you to get out from even the toughest spots with sufficient skill, great sound effects to make the attacks really feel painful, great music that goes well with the action.so, basically, God Hand.
>>11510896>not a fan of the Jet boss fight in SoR 2.Jet enemies always have much less health to balance that, and you can relatively easily get them caught inside combos. They only take forever if you use the forward jumping kicks, which are pretty weak with every character to offset the fact that they are hard knockdown moves that hit multiple enemies and 2/3rds of the opponents can't counter it.>SoR2 has this issue everywhere particularly in Mania,Mania in SOR2 is a bonus difficulty which is not meant to be balanced or even remotely fair. It's like nightmare mode in Doom (where enemies move 3x faster and respawn). It's there for fun.>>11510982>the game and enemies aren't really designed for 1 life play like good arcade titlesMaybe because it is a console title that keeps throwing bonus lives at you constantly? You get one at 20k points, one at every subsequent 50k points, and there are at least 4 1up items in the game from the top of my head. Plus you get 2 continues and can make the game start with 5 lives (9 with cheats).
>>11510858Pacing, enemy variety, balance, how fun your character feels to control, etc. Look at some really shit beat-em-ups to see the difference. I'm talking Bebe's Kids, The Tick, etc. What you see is overly long stages, repetitive unfun enemies that take too long to kill or repeat too often, movement that's too loose or too stiff, and so on.
>>11511026https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJSFkgkzy_ohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Blom1-b1RUWatch these and compare to something like a Capcom beat-em-up or the Streets of Rage games
>>11511034It's so fucked up to me that the Tick is like 3 hour long game, and barely anything changes the whole time. The ultimate endurance test.
>>11511002Already did, cope.>>11511016>Maybe because it is a console titleNot an excuse>keeps throwing lives at you to compensate the shit balanceYeah that's bad design
>>11511069>Already didYeah, it's not like it's easy to lie on the internet
>>11511076Harder than being a shitter and coping with "c-cheesing!!"
>>11511083So you did cheese
>>11511096>learning enemies is cheesingThat's the shitter mentality.
>>11511053Yeah, it's ridiculous. When I tried it I got bored halfway through the first stage. Makes me wonder if any kids at all actually forced themselves through the whole thing back in the day. There must've been a few that did, but it's hard to imagine.
>>11511097Did you learn it on your own or did you look it up on the internet?
>>11511187>shitter thinks you can get good in FF by watching a videono wonder you are shit
>>11511026>Bebe's KidsI didn't know there was a game...is it based on the movie or vice versa?
>>11511097Learning enemies and exploiting a shitty old engine aren't the same thing.>T-the developers intended you to jump backwards and despawn entire screensokay bud. you cheated
>>11511394Only speedtrannies despawn enemies, you shitter trash.
A good Smash-em-up (as the subtitles for Uncle From Another World put it) has satisfying animations and sounds and a feeling of overpowerment when you get good at hitThis is one of the reasons why I dislike Final Fight so much, if you look at "pro" playthroughs they spend most of their time doing repetitive unsatisfying cheap damage from safe places like continuously using kicks from wall jumps. That's not satisfying, that's just lame and boring. But there is no choice because the game throws so many enemies at you in so many scenarios it's the best way to make sure you don't get hit.On the other side of the sepctrum one of the greatest sin a smash em up can have is when several enemies are overlaid but your hits only affect one of them at once. Looking at you Death and Return of Superman, urrrghh
>What makes a Beat'em Up game good?Pits.
>>11511565This game is pretty fucking neat, honestly.
>>11511569It's a bit too easy and unbalanced (it's crazy how much stronger Ioz is compared to the other 2 characters) but it's certainly very satisfying to play especially as Ioz indeed
>>11511565The volcano god will be pleased.
Trying to say something not already mentioned, enemy behaviour is important I think. You need them to act in various ways that will ideally push the player in different ways. >just walk up and go for a face jab>will back off and try to get behind and go for a jab>enemies that get on your line and do something threatening along that line (charge, knife throw etc)>jump kick assholes>blocks basic strikes requiring a grab or whateverAnd on top of all that you can layer simple stuff. Enemies with extra fast or extra slow get up times. Fat HP or super small HP. Always comes on screen with a weapon guy.Then encounters form naturally based on what types of enemies you let in and in what order.
>>11510858>What makes a Beat'em Up game good?If I, specifically, say "This is fun." repeatedly out loud while playing it. There is literally no other valid criteria.
>>11511554So that's why TDaRoS felt so weird to play. Especially since it's Superman, he should be sending lots of enemies flying with one punch.
>>11512228Well it's one reason. The hit detection is a bit weird as well and the movement is too loose. The repetitiveness of enemies and levels also doesn't help.That game should have been good
>>11511069>a console game playing like a console game is not an excuse for a console game not being like an arcade gamenigger are you serious?
>>11510858>What makes a Beat'em Up game good?Keep repetition low and having many fun original sections that break up the stages into chunks. The director for Contra III made the point that every three screens there should be something new. That can be applied to beat'em ups with the changing the look of the stage and music being fine examples. Interesting that you uploaded an image of SOR2. To me that game suffers with some major repetition mid way. I get to the baseball ground and I just give up in boredom. The trek to the secret elevator and the journey down completely kills my interest so that could be a case study for you on what doesn't work.
>>11512279> The director for Contra III made the point that every three screens there should be something new. How about... Get this: every screen.
>>11510876This is how you design good mechanics. Good aestetics matter too and what those constitute is so obvious you can learn it just by watching gameplay.Thread ended awhile ago. OPs question was resolved.
>>11510858I'd say it needs to be short and sweet, not too easy, nor too hard, and it needs appealing graphics, OST and, this one's probably the most important one for me, good SFX, especially for punching.It needs to feel good when you hit things.
>>11510858Imagine.
>>11512253NWA has more arcade-like design than any SoR game nigger, 3 didn't even have a timer nor score.
>>11510863Replaced with better games like Ninja Gaiden or GOW
>>11510858Mechanics that aren't incredibly fucking obtuse. Most classic Capcom beat em ups for example are extremely basic but the enemies just slam you for huge damage. If you look at the 'advanced' techniques it's weird shit that just looks like you exploiting the AI.
>>11513269>learning enemy behavior is "exploiting"I love how you shitters cope with capcom bmups
I'm trying to like Super Double Dragon (DD4 SNES) but the game is making it really hard on me. I hate how the game tries to force you to pick which enemy you have to tackle first for you
>>11510858Coop mode.
>>11514418Ya, that game was a big letdown. It's like they took a generic beatemup and slapped the Double Dragon license on it.
Do we deem this game kino or doodoo?
>>11515061Gave zan a blue t-shirt insead of him being a metal android and broke Blaze's neck. What were they thinking.
>>11515061>weForm your own opinions breh. I think it's trash. What do (You) think?
How the FUCK do I get good at Renegade? I get my absolute shit pushed in and watching runs of it makes it seem so fucking easy
>>11514950I feel like it could have been good, Double Dragon games never did things the same way others did, but it feels very unfinished
>>11515061It's fine if you play with the sound turned off
>>11515970Soundtrack is good though.At worst it's minimal idm that actually is for high IQ people
>>11510858>goodlicensed IP i recognize>badno licensed IP i recognize
>>11514702But at what cost?!
>>11510858>What makes a Beat'em Up game goodThe throw animations.
>>11512279>that could be a case study for you on what doesn't workWere you posting Final Fight as another example of something that "doesn't work"? It's got about the same amount of variety (content-wise, the characters and what they can do are a lot more varied in SoR2) but with worse art and music.
>>11516929Rhetorical btw, I'm closing the thread.
>>11516929>40 colors shit>better artNice b8
>>11513062How is God of War better than Streets of Rage?
I'm playing the SNES version of Knights of the Rounds (which has 10 credits) and I'm getting filteredI find bosses extremely hard to read: when is it safe to attack? When should I block? They can stand still and do nothing for the longest time OR they can attack super quickly with little time to react. Sometimes you can do a full combo against them, sometimes they respond after the 2nd hit... I have no idea most of the times and it feels like 80% luck when I perform better. Still I am doing better little by little and reached the final stage
What's the more annoying mehanic?>Enemy takes 20 seconds to wake up>Enemy is knocked off the screen and takes 20 seconds to wake up
