future-proofing
SOUL FUCK OPTICAL MEDIA
>>11514461it's crazy that we gave machines eyes and they use it to peer into a cd and decipher the data within
>>11514420They wanted more control over the manufacture of games. While ports from other systems tended to lazily cut content out for storage concerns, the games that were built to take advantage of this tech work very well, and the fast loading times are a fun part of the N64's personality. I don't think SM64 would've been quite as beloved had it had full on loading screens when getting into levels.
>>11514445>future-proofingLOL!!!!
>>11514420Not payin sony cd royalties and making moar cart/pcb moneeh
>>11514420NES carts had more empty space. Also labels are importantIf you mean discs, Sony printed their own, SEGA had JVC/Victor, and Nintendo had... Phillips
>>11514464How Can CDs Be Real If Our Eyes Aren't Real
Fmv's are not videogames
>>11514420It was a great idea and I still stand by it.
>>11514420>lets stay true to the soul of video gamesMoving to CDs was the beginning of end, since they allowed devs to put in whatever bloated unoptimized shitty games they wanted.
>>11514420Fast loading times (not noticeable to the player). Reduced complexity and cost of the console. Greater reliability and longevity. Lower rate of piracy. Can implement extra hardware in the cart if necessary (there was an N64 game with an internet modem in the cart IIRC). Much more kid-proof. More aesthetically pleasing.Cart systems are easier to load backup and homebrew ROMs onto because the system doesn't need to be modded to use a flash cart. The Xstation for the PS1 is very good, but it requires soldering to the PS1 motherboard, and it doesn't work on all models.>>11514497I think he means that carts have better longevity than optical discs.
No space for FMVs = can't make me sit through an unskippable movie before my game starts/resumes
>>11514474>I don't think SM64 would've been quite as beloved had it had full on loading screens when getting into levels.Out of all N64 exclusives, Mario64 is probably the worst example of "a game that would not work with loading screens". The delay from jumping into a painting is pretty much the perfect cut to put in a loading screen, as is when you exit a level.>>11514637>Cart systems are easier to load backup and homebrew ROMs onto because the system doesn't need to be modded to use a flash cart. The Xstation for the PS1 is very good, but it requires soldering to the PS1 motherboard, and it doesn't work on all models.That highly depends on how the system was designed, not an inherent nature of using disks in general. The Saturn for example has two different ways to load ISOs without any soldering or even opening of the console. The PS2 and Xbox have such methods too, though in the case of the Xbox you will very likely want to open it to install a larger HDD. Technically even the GC does but it's far inferior to solder disk loaders. Back when these systems were new though devices like everdrives did not exist for cart systems, and the few methods that did let you do something like that were expensive, clunky, and had many compatibility issues, as well as rare and not well known. Many people however knew about modchips and burning games.The PS1 is practically impossible to do without soldering, even the MODE which is a solderless ODE that works across several systems requires soldering to work in a PS1.>>11514640>No space for FMVs = can't make me sit through an unskippable movie before my game starts/resumesI have bad news for you anon...
>>11514420Dnt care, I'm not keeping a system for a total of 3 to 7 games
>CD costs ten cents in bulk>cartridges cost $15 minimum>maybe more if an earthquake happens, lots moreThe point is to make money and sell games in bulk.
They were thinking: ludo
>>11514686Still have to soft mod systems like the PS2 and GameCube. With cart systems it's just plug and plug. And the games are small so they fit on a small SD card and don't take long to download.
>>11514420they ended up going back to cartridges so who looks stupid know?
>>11514708>Still have to soft mod systems like the PS2 and GameCube.Which is as easy as plugging in a memory card.>With cart systems it's just plug and plug.And much more expensive, and again, was not an option until more recently.> And the games are small so they fit on a small SD card and don't take long to download.What kind of 3rd world internet do you have where 30 year old CD games take you a while to download? Also, again, back then you would have been loading those games off floppy disks, or later with more expensive units off of CDs.
>>11514637>Greater reliability and longevityYou're delusional, like most tendies. Carts are much less reliable due to the connectors (both in the cart and the console) getting dirty and oxidized over time, which is something you can only remedy by further damaging and wearing down the contacts through cleaning them with abrasives. Not to mention that you're just fucked once any cartridge with a battery inside it runs out, unless you plan to whip out your soldering iron. The N64's memory paks were absolute dog shit as well, with many games demanding the entire thing to themselves. Those also had a battery inside them because fuck you we're cheap assholes.Meanwhile, all my disc-based games continue to work flawlessly, require zero maintenance and will outlive me. As will my PS1 memory cards most likely, which all still work flawlessly - unlike the several dead N64 ones I own that took all my saves with them when the batteries ran out.
>>11514771>tendiesThis is the direction /vr/ needs. Export console war lingo fron /v/
>>11514725All three of them
>Carts are much less reliable due to the connectors (both in the cart and the console) getting dirty and oxidized over time, which is something you can only remedy by further damaging and wearing down the contacts through cleaning them with abrasives.Most of it is generally a layer of oxidation that forms on TOP of the contacts which you can clean off, it's not common for the contacts themselves to corrode. That is specifically why they are gold-plated, gold resists corrosion. I was once given an N64 cart where that did happen, so corroded that the contacts were green, still got it to work.If anything, it's the port you have to worry about, those pins can get bent over time, my N64 suffered that. But of course, you can have failing lasers and motors (and in some cases belts) in disk based systems too.>>11514771>Not to mention that you're just fucked once any cartridge with a battery inside it runs out, unless you plan to whip out your soldering iron.Dude, replacing a save battery is super-easy, there were N64 games which had the option to save to a memory card, and many N64 games used EEPROM or FlashROM which does not require a battery to keep it's contents.Meanwhile on the SegaCD you're fucked once the battery runs out. Both the console and it's memory card used SRAM, which means they used a battery to keep the memory alive, better whip out that soldering iron. Sega Saturn too, though at least it had a holder for the battery, but it also drained the battery in a very short time. The only saving grace was IF you had a memory card for Saturn at least those didn't need a battery.>The N64's memory paks were absolute dog shit as well, with many games demanding the entire thing to themselves.Pretty much only sports slop like Madden did this, which was generally the case for PS1 versions of the games as well.>Meanwhile, all my disc-based games continue to work flawlessly, require zero maintenance and will outlive me.Tell that to the early model PS1s.
>>11514445you're correct sir>>11514771> this mentally disabledcart mask roms are incredibly reliable, just costly to make vs. optical media.>less reliable due to the connectorsworks on my machine. > The N64's memory paks has nothing to do with the carts? so in your pea soup mind: things have connectors, they get worn, rom based and instant loading media = bad. yeah, i wish you all the best with your chronic schizophrenia.
>>11514420You make the board fill the cartridge if it doesn't need to?Here's one that does.
>>11514420Several reasons.1. To let them make consoles for cheap. CD drive would add around $100 to the console price. Cartridge port was basically free. 2. So they could have more control over game distribution. Nintendo had a cartridge production business and severe paranoia over piracy (even though their most popular systems are the ones most rife with piracy).3. N64 was supposed to be launched with optical floppy drive, but it got delayed over and over again due to reliability issues. On the other hand, the architecture wasn't suitable for a format with long load time (CD) due to the lack of RAM, CD controller, etc. Thus cartridge was chosen as a stopgap.People saying it's for future proofing and avoiding sony CD royalties and whatever are cultists coping.
>>11515889> Nintendo had a cartridge production business and severe paranoia over piracythere was no "paranoia". they've been dealing with pirates copying their roms since nes days. pirates just reverse engineered the rest.
>>11515901No company with no paranoia would do pic related.
>>115144208X CD drives were expensive back in 1996, they they costed $50 instead of $200 per drive the N64 would've been a CD system.>>11514474If the N64 were going to use CDs they would've used CAV discs/drives from Panasonic like they did with the GameCube, Wii and Wii U, that info came from the Gigaleak.>>11514516Panasonic, Phillips was only for the Super NES and that got canceled due to the Sega CD and PC Engine CD bombing.
>>11514497(you)
>>11514771> Carts are much less reliableThis was posted from opposite land
>>11514635Funny considering the psx has more 60fps games than the n64 games in it's library.
>>11516204>has to blow in it every time he uses itthe telltale sign of reliability.
>>11516220Aside from being wrong believing that myth to this day, it's still fixable even if you treat your carts like shit, which the same can't be said for optical media.
>>11516227>[blowing intensifies]
>>11516231Weakass. Blow it out your ass!
>>11515889>On the other hand, the architecture wasn't suitable for a format with long load time (CD) due to the lack of RAM, CD controller, etc.Their rivals got by with even less RAM, and that's without counting the Expansion Pak, lack of RAM wasn't a reason they didn't go with CD.
>>11516601>Their rivals got by with even less RAMSega Saturn had 4.5MB RAM, 512KB of which was used for CD buffer. PS1 had 3.5MB + 32KB SRAM for CD buffer. Also PS1 could get away with 1MB VRAM because it had no z-buffering. N64 needed around 2-3MB. Not to mention the lack of sound RAM and CD buffer. The system would need a big revision to accommodate for a CD player.
>>11516220>>has to blow in it every time he uses it>the telltale sign of reliability.Unironically works every time. The very definition of reliability
>>11514729>>Still have to soft mod systems like the PS2 and GameCube.>Which is as easy as plugging in a memory card.Still have to get the games onto media in the correct format etc. It's not as simple copying ROMs onto an SD card.>>With cart systems it's just plug and plug.>And much more expensive, and again, was not an option until more recently.If you're not Krikzz stuff, then no it isn't. The new Summer Cart 64 is $50. The SD2SNES can be had for about the same price. More basic flash carts are even cheaper, and common so they can be found used. Devices like the Doctor V64 and floppy based copiers and pirate carts were around when the consoles were new. What didn't exist back then is completely irrelevant though. We're talking about now.Also for disc based consoles you still need to buy things like the Xstation, which is hard to find right now IIRC, HDD adapter for the PS2 and a hard drive, Saroo or the other one for the Saturn, ODE / SD card stuff for the GameCube as well as a way to get Swiss to boot etc. It's not cheaper or simpler.>> And the games are small so they fit on a small SD card and don't take long to download.>What kind of 3rd world internet do you have where 30 year old CD games take you a while to download? Also, again, back then you would have been loading those games off floppy disks, or later with more expensive units off of CDs.50+ gigabytes worth of CD/DVD games is going to take a while do download on modern internet yes, and you'll need a large / multiple SD card or whatever you're putting them on.
>>11516691The Saturn had 2MB of work RAM, 1.5MB of video RAM, and the rest was split across various other subsystems. It didn't have "4.5MB of RAM" any more than somebody saying their PC has 48GB of RAM because they are counting their 32GB main RAM and their GPU's 16GB VRAM together as if they were one.Same goes for PS1, it has 2MB of work RAM and 1MB of Video RAM.The N64 had 4MB of RAM that was shared between the CPU and GPU, either one could use as much or little as it needs.So not only did the base N64 had more total RAM than the PS1 or Saturn, but it wasn't even restricted to only have a specific amount for the CPU and GPU.It was sure as hell not a RAM limitation.>>11516759>Still have to get the games onto media in the correct format etc. It's not as simple copying ROMs onto an SD card.You mean clicking "burn" on the ISO you downloaded? Yeah, real complicated. You are drastically over-exaggerating the effort needed.Also, a soft-modded Gamecube can run ISOs, so can a PS2. The whole point is that homebrew for those systems can launch ISOs, and the softmod is a way to launch said homebrew.>If you're not Krikzz stuff, then no it isn't.So if you ripoff the person who made it possible with chinesium bootlegs that may or may not work well, great argument there. The only one you would have an argument on is the N64, and that's only recently that it became an option.>The SD2SNES can be had for about the same price.The SD2SNES, and I mean not ones that are chinese bootlegs, is many times the price of a SummerCart.>More basic flash carts are even cheaperThe ones that can't run many games, great. Especially an issue for the SNES with how many enhancement chips it had.
>>11516846>What didn't exist back then is completely irrelevant though. We're talking about now.So you have no argument against this and are trying to dismiss it? Don't forget the discussion started about why the systems were designed this way in the first place, so yes, it is relevant.>Also for disc based consoles you still need to buy things like the Xstation, which is hard to find right now IIRC10 seconds of Googling shows you they are in stock everywhere>HDD adapter for the PS2 and a hard driveHDD adapters for PS2 are also easy to get and it uses standard hard drives, you didn't research any of this did you?>Saroo or the other one for the SaturnBoth of those ARE LITEARLLY AS EASY AS YOUR BELOVED FLASH DRIVES. You just plug a SD card in and plug them into the system. You're not helping your argument here.>GameCube as well as a way to get Swiss to boot etcYou realize here are SD to memorycard adapters for the GC right?>50+ gigabytes worth of CD/DVD games is going to take a while do download on modern internet yes, and you'll need a large / multiple SD card or whatever you're putting them on.First of all, not really, I can download that in a few minutes. Second, who the fuck downloads 50 gigs of CD games? Are you seriously going to play 30 year old versions of Madden, Fifa, etc? Even if you wanted to go that route for some stupid reason, again, any non-poorfag internet will get you all that quick. I download 50 gig updates for my modern games in minutes.
>>11516846>The Saturn had 2MB of work RAM, 1.5MB of video RAM, and the rest was split across various other subsystemsYes and N64 had shared RAM for everything, from video to geometry to game logic to sound. No matter how you see it, it has less RAM.>The N64 had 4MB of RAM that was shared between the CPU and GPU, either one could use as much or little as it needs.And the GPU will need more memory than PS1 GPU. As I said Z-buffering takes more memory than the lack thereof. It's like triple framebuffer. N64's hardware LOD also takes more memory, PS1 games usually skip LOD and simply make faraway objects flat shaded.>So not only did the base N64 had more total RAM than the PS1 or SaturnWrong. Less RAM means less RAM. It has no CD buffer that a CD system would need. No sound RAM either. It practically has less RAM than Saturn and slightly more than PS1, but the need to do z-buffering and LOD model+texture swapping makes it less memory efficient than PS1.N64 devs could save some memory by using low quality sounds though, but that's about it.
>>11516891>No matter how you see it, it has less RAM.It didn't, not only did it have more total RAM but it let developers split it how they wanted. It's asinine to say the N64 had too little RAM to do CDs.>And the GPU will need more memory than PS1 GPU.BS, you are going to need more than "no z buffer" to justify that since the Saturn barely had more. Are you also forgetting that we had 16 bit CD systems before the N64 that had considerably less RAM?>As I said Z-buffering takes more memory than the lack thereofNot that much more, at this point you are arguing that the N64 could not do CDs because it had a Z buffer while the PS1 did not, you are just digging yourself deeper and deeper.>Wrong. Less RAM means less RAMWrong, unified RAM gives you more RAM for what actually needs it. Having 1.5MB of video RAM is useless if you are only using half of it but are running out of work RAM.>No sound RAM eitherDo you have any idea how little that matters? That was in the KILOBYTES for other systems, and only because they sliced their subsystems up like it was a goddamn pizza.>It has no CD buffer that a CD system would needGuess what? A CD buffer would have been on the drive itself, not the console.>It practically has less RAM than SaturnWrong>and slightly more than PS1Significantly more>B-b-but Z-bufferingTHAT BARELY TAKES UP SPACE COMPARED TO LITERALLY EVERYTHING ELSE YOU FUCKING MORONHoly fuck you are beyond a doubt one of the bigger idiots I have ever seen refuse to admit that they were wrong on a total ass-pull argument they made and rather than admit it, keep digging themselves so deep that you are in fucking China by this point.Here is a tl;dr for youTHE N64 WASN'T A CARTRIDGE CONSOLE BECAUSE OF LACK OF RAM FOR A CDIt's insane that you are still trying to dig yourself deeper by just being even more and more wrong the more you attempt to argue your insane stance.
>>11515889>People saying it's for future proofing and avoiding sony CD royalties and whatever are cultists coping.The fuck?
> carts are bad because connectors and some nonsense about royalties. fuck your instant loading games: the mental illness threaddo zoomies forget how long it took for these old cd drives to load any data? so slow just to read 2mb of data into memory.
The only bad thing about the n64 was the pitiful amount of texture cache it was given
>>11517992Also the laggy RDRam.
>sony cd royaltiesPublishers needed to pay Nintendo more per unit.
>>11518047They would've been using a custom format by Panasonic if they went the disc route like what happened to the GameCube, Wii and Wii U.
