Do you prefer literal translations or Western Localizations?
>>12532906
日本語
>>12558129I prefer translation over fanfiction.
>>12558129Literal translations obviously
Total Localizer Death
>>12558129Yes! "We did it, sounds so clinicalGBA is basically the picrel meme.Did the people who made the GBA version try to gaslight that the PS1 version sucks? Cuz from where I'm standing it's by far the best of the three.
>>12558129if there's voice acting, then literal is fine, since you can get tone and character from the voice performance. if there's no voice acting, then a non-obnoxious (i.e. non-honeywood dq shit) localization is preferable
>>12558473A simple "we did it" does not sound clinical.
>>12558473>Did the people who made the GBA version try to gaslight that the PS1 version sucks? Cuz from where I'm standing it's by far the best of the three.the ps1 version isn't there and had faris going ARRRG AVAST LANDLUBBERS in every line>>12558537of course someone who would post "A simple "we did it" does not sound clinical." would think that
>>12558538Is standard English phrasing a foreign concept? Ever watch a cartoon growing up?
>>12558129Western in most cases. Literal translations lose the spirit of many scenes since there are no direct translations sometimes or there's some wordplay that only makes sense in the original language. In such cases, if the goal of a line is to create levity or for a character to snark on someone, then it's more accurate to make them do that through a rewrite than to give the literal translation, in which case the intention would be lost.Tbh since most weabs are also autistic this entire point is just going to be lost on them, which is their loss.
>>12558543excessively formal english phrasing for every character is actually a foreign concept
>>12558551"We did it" isn't formal English phrasing.
>>12558550>it's more accurate to be inaccuratelol no
>>12558557it's pretty formal. "woohoo! we crushed it, kid!" would be more fitting. or "huzzah! we did it, kiddo!"
>>12558129It's another FF translation thread
>>12558563>webut cid didnt do anything
>>12558563So you think Jayson Tatum's being "excessively formal" here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we9Ohn4Ol3o>"woohoo! we crushed it, kid!" would be more fitting. or "huzzah! we did it, kiddo!"Cid's not even the one speaking. Can you even read Japanese?
>>12558559Literal translations aren't always accurate to the spirit and intention of the original. How do you justify this?
>>12558583Only if the translation is word-for-word, otherwise a direct translation will convey the meaning, save for wordplay.
>>12558578then why does the rge translation say "yes! we did it!">>12558582>So you think Jayson Tatum's being "excessively formal" here?that would be "WE DID IT">Cid's not even the one speaking. Can you even read Japanese?oh, of course it's (You) again
>>12558594>that would be "WE DID IT"That would be the...same exact phrase?>oh, of course it's (You) againOhhhh, were you the guy that absolutely failed at the FFIV picture. The same person who didn't play the game?
>>12558129>a fucking Red Lobster joke in my JRPGI unironically love it. The pop culture references in FFV's GBA translation were kino.
>>12558603We love our fanfiction, folks.
>>12558602>can't tell the difference between "We did it!" and "WE DID IT!"pure autism>Ohhhh, were you the guy that absolutely failed at the FFIV picture. The same person who didn't play the game?yes, i never played the ds remake, as i said
>>12558593Well that was my whole fucking point.
>>12558613>no it was "we did it" not "we did it"This can't be a real argument.>yes, i never played the ds remake, as i saidNo, you never played the game. No person would've made that mistake. Also, you couldn't even tell the difference between masculine and feminine dialogue. You "read" the Japanese and still thought it was a girl. Though, I think with this last fail, we've proven you don't read or speak Japanese.
>>12558614Your point was a straw man? Word-for-word translations only exist in teaching materials and textbooks.
>>12558617>can't tell the difference between "We did it!" and "WE DID IT!"pure autism. don't attempt to translate anything, ever
>>12558627>noooo I wrote it in all caps so it's different!!!You are quite honestly, the most retarded person I have ever met.
>>12558632>can't tell the difference between talking and shoutinga classic sign of autism
>>12558624You haven't played many ROM translations.
>>12558636Yeah, and he was totally shouting the first time he said it, too, right?
>>12558638are you talking about the apehoop player? who cares, do you genuinely think cid and buttz were talking normally?
>>12558637Poor wording isn't the same as a literal translation. A lot of people get this confused.
>>12558639Getting racist now that you're losing the argument? Actually watch the clip and see how he says it. Tell me if he's being "excessively formal."
>>12558624Japanese colloquialisms also lose their meaning and intention. Colloquialisms make up a large part of dialogue.
>>12558647A standard J-E dictionary already accounts for colloquialisms.
>>12558646you're literally incapable of understanding my points, probably because you're black
>>12558653You're literally incapable of understanding who's speaking in the picture lol
>>12558594>then why does the rge translation sayRPGe was made by literal children. Of course it's not professional-grade. People only like it because Square dropped the ball releasing their rough unfinished translated text draft on PlayStation and then doubled-down like an autistic spastic on Advance. All they needed to do was just polish up the PlayStation version.
>>12558656yeah, because i was looking at the rge translation>>12558657>polish up the PlayStation version.would that include renmoving faris's lines where she says SHIVER ME TIMBERS and YO HO HO AND A BOTTLE OF RUM
>>12558659Yeah, you were not being able to read Japanese. We've established this.
>>12558659>would that include renmoving faris's linesYeah they should've toned it down. Whether it should be removed entirely is a matter of preference because she's supposed to have a distinct "tough" voice like the other pirates. Does the Advance version accomplish this?
>>12558674>Yeah, you were not being able to read Japanese.wow, insanely comprehensible. i trust you as a translator>>12558676she says the occasional arr and bucko. i thought you knew the advance translation?
>>12558682Why do you even come to these threads if you can't read Japanese?
>>12558683because i play translations??? moron
>>12558689Yeah, and provide your utterly stupid opinions on a language you don't speak.
>>12558697i speak english actually, unlike you
>>12558703Clearly not if you think the phrase "we did it" is, and I quote, "excessively formal English"
>>12558705>Yeah, you were not being able to read Japanese.
>>12558709Was that quip too much for you? Should I have offset it with quotes so you could follow?
>>12558578Didn't he?
>another fucking thread on this stupid garbage
>>12559068It would be fine, so long as we don't have idiot EOPs who don't even know how to translate Japanese to English.
Zell eats Koppepan, not hot dogs!I can't handle such bastardization of a source material!
>>12559123i only play my games translated from japanese to chinese to english
I think localisations are fine as long as they don't go full Working Designs.
>>12559175Oh, you don't play video games?
>>12558538>the ps1 version isn't thereAs the anon who compiled the image, it's the SNES one on the right. RPGe version on the left. Coincidentally(?) both combined the two textboxes into one, so I put them next to each other for image-size reasons. I was hoping you can tell they're from different sources since the font and colors are off, but it seems others are already reposting without the original filename. Sorry for not labeling properly within the image.
>>12559191It's okay. Anyone with half a brain can follow the logic. Only the wannabe localizer was having trouble.
>>12558473>"We did it, sounds so clinical
I am so glad I played the RPGOne version instead of the GBA version of this, despite all conventional advice. I was really surprised to see how much of a meme people treated characters like Gilgamesh afterwards, considering in the literal translation he's one of the most badass characters in the entire series.
>>12559309FF5's GBA feels like sabotage from a person who disliked it and wanted to cement it as being the "sooooo goofy" one, unlike muh classic FF6.
>>12559309I've only played the RPGe translation and will continue to do so.As far as I'm concerned, it is the only version.
>translator trying to save the completely dry "drier than your grandma's vagina" game that is FFV>ngyeh iz not aggurate, it'z noh agyurate to the zapaneesh
>>12559191>I was hoping you can tell they're from different sources since the font and colors are offi have never played the ps1 version>>12559198>sfc version, sfc version 2, rpge, ps1, gba version, gba version 2, gba eng, gba eng 2doesn't really parse to epople who actually understand logicthis guy doesn't even like the ps1 version btw and is black>>12559304>has a yahoo in iti rest my case. basically my suggestion;>>12558563
>>12559554>doesn't really parse to epople who actually understand logicYou don't even understand Japanese. You're just a racist localizer lolI'm super white btw I find it funny how much other races bother you
>>12559569you don't understand english, that much is evident ITT
>>12559582that's hilarious to hear coming from the guy that doesn't understand english AND japanese lmao
>>12558563>huzzah!WHAT THE FUCK HOLY REDDIT LMAO
>>12559602i actually do understand english>>12559607it's what an old man would say, zoomzoom. it's appropriate for his character
>>12559610>it's what an old man would sayyeah an old redditor that plays dnd and goes on larping expeditions lmao
>>12559615what exclamation would you have an old man say? "darn' tootin'!"
>>12559618>darn' tootin'!damn you're on a roll with these ASS translations today lmao
>>12558129Does anyone else ever wonder how a hundred years from now, when language has continued to change, how people will look back on these localizations and maybe get a false picture of how people talked from our time? Or just media in general? There's a lot of expressions and idioms that will probably be completely incomprehensible to people at some point in the future, so much so it'll be like how we have to stop and think about middle english translations today.What's worse, they might take some of these stuff as if we were dead serious in trying to say them instead of being intentionally corny.
>>12559621i'm starting to think you don't actually like media designed for 8yo japanese kids
>Hooray!>Yippee! Japanese people say stuff like this. Maybe you’ve blurted this out inadvertently before
>>12559623middle english was intentionally obscurantist because only the upper classes and monks were literate. the average peasant talks much like we do today-it's shakespeare at its worst
>>12559624i'm starting to think you're dumber than an 8yo japanese kid
>>12559632that's because you're an idiot who hates soulful localisations like darn tootin'
>>12558129>>12558129In this day in age, if you want something done right you ask AI to do it.
>>12559735As much as I love watching all my favorite games get absolutely shat on by localizers, I have to say that AI translations come out really good.
>>12559735I was expecting "ikuze" from the english there but it's an excited "Yossha-!" which is more of a "fuck yeah" than a "let's go" from my very poor understanding of nihongo. I'm saying chatgpt was incorrect.
>>12559773let’s go is the modern hell yeah, this is why translating is hard
>>12559786Oh, yes, this game was clearly made for black americans in 2022, what was I thinking?
>>12559796christ man, go outside and talk to some real peopleThe literal translation of Yossha is closest to “I WON!” or “HOORAH,” and “Let’s go!” the way most people cheer would never translate to “ikuzo” because they mean literal different thingsyou clearly don’t know how languages work
>>12559804>The literal translation of Yossha is closest to “I WON!” or “HOORAH,”Yes. Which does NOT translate to "Let's go" in a pre-2020s (1992) context.
>>12559804"Let's go" as an expression of victory is a zoomer thing, like "mogged."In the '90s, if that were translated as "lets go!" one would assume a tonal shift where we were focusing onward toward the next task, not a celebration.Hence why the RPGe fan-translation (top left English in OP's image is the best. "Yes, we did it" makes sense to everyone, not just black people and zoomers from 30 years after the game released.ChatGPT was wrong. And you shouldn't defend it for that.
>>12559805>>12559818the best translation remains darn tootin', because it reminds the player that cid is an old man with a bum knee
>>12559839"Darn tootin'" would be said in response to someone else's statement, Cid is the one starting the dialogue.
>>12559842wrong. darn tootin' is just an exclamation. it can be used as an affirmative response, just as hell yeah can be an affirmative response, but it isn't only an affirmative response
>>12559818in japanese they have and continue to use lets go in the same fashion as this.
>>12559867I do not believe you. I've been watching anime since the 90s on VHS. Yosh / yoshha are manly expressions of accomplishment. Slightly cooler than yatta.Ikuzo means let's go in a gangster or cringe way, but is usually "let's go" in anime.You are trying to make up some bullshit just to act like chatGPT works correctly, which it doesn't.
>all the people sperging about "lets go" because zoomers said it 6 years ago or somethingMario literally says "let's a-go!". It's not a new phrase
>>12558129>do you prefer good localization or bad localization?
>>12559908It really is. Last 10 years.It's always sorta been a thing. But sometime around 2020 it took on a whole new thing.Not important.You wanted "Yossha" to be translated into "LETS GOOOOOOOOOO?" Is that much different from translating it as "Ha! Looks like that overgrown lobster got served!"?Not really, in my opinion, and I am NOT a purist. "Lets go," in text, in the 90s would no make me think they were shouting like a 2020s basketball player, I would be confused as to why they were dancing.
I like to imagine that when you all go on dates, you also do this shpiel with the woman you're with>No I'm telling you darn tootin' is a reddit term, it's not real translation. Don't you think?All of you, please, please take your meds
>>12558129I'm not against some minor stylization or translator jokes if done properly.The issue is that modern localizers are skill-less hacks that just throw memes that will be outdated in three months and blatant political bs into the mix.Everybody understands the lobster joke exactly the same as kids in the 90s did. Skibidi Sigma bullcrap will stop being relevant when next generation of human larvae will develop sentience and will start absorbing content and spitting their own memes.
>>12560127Actually, the issue is even worse - thanks to how short video content factories work, memes and references are replaced at extremely high rate - Skibidi Sigma already sounds very outdated and SIX SEVEN!!111 will be replaced with another brainrot soon, too.Using popular language in localization is pointless and stupid because it may sound stale and irrelevant long before actual release.
>>12560127>The issue is that modern localizers are skill-less hacks that just throw memes that will be outdated in three months and blatant political bs into the mix.Provide 10 examples of this actually happening and having a negative impact on the games they appear in so we know you aren't just making up boogeymen in your head.
>>12560091darn tootin'
Gaijin piggus don't deserve nippon geemus
>>12560142Okay, there was the Chug Jug reference in Somnium Files, the Ange pronoun thing in...>and having a negative impact on the games they appear in...pretty sneaky, Mr. Localizer.
>>12559932You're not a purist, you're an autist. Big difference.
>>12559607
>>12560270>huzzah le gentle sir
>>12558129I don't like when some weird purple haired (they/them) mentally unstable persons put words into the mouths of characters without the creators consent.What's next? changing the actual plot of the games to align more with their retarded word view? or removing scenes all together because they trigger them?I wish all translators who participated in the bastardization of the original script to be gathered in the public square and executed by stoning.
>>12560294To make matters worse, most of them don't even speak Japanese, so all of their "changes" were made without comprehension of the original text.
>>12558129You can be literal with flairYou don’t have to be exact, at the same time you don’t have to be “Le wacky Redditor”
>>12560496>you can be literal>you don't have to be exactCongratulations on not knowing what the fuck you want, and not knowing the definition of "literal". This kind of shitty opinion is precisely why translation and localization discourse can never go anywhere worthwhile, ever, but especially not online.
>>12560520You should have said transliteration instead of literal translation thenTransliteration is word for wordLiteral translation is the same meaning with an equivalent wording to fit the language used
>>12560587Congratulations on being even dumber than I thought, and only proving my point further."Transliteration" would be to spell out the Japanese words exactly as they sound in Japanese, but in English letters.
>>12560603ExactlyYou want it to say Yatta
Ideally with a word like やった I think it would be unironically a better decision to just leave it in and let players learn it through exposure across multiple games/anime/etc, like how people naturally learn "san" or "senpai" or so on
>>12560520Idiot wannabe localizer. Nobody agrees with you.
>>12560974It's literally "we did it" so it can be translated directly.
>>12560974A lot of fansubs from that era did just leave it in Japanese. It's why everyone knows it today.
>>12558129When you translate something you are fundamentally changing its DNA. When you make characters speak a different language they have now completely changed their nationality and now play by a new set of rules. Words and phrases literally translated from a Japanese person would not be words and phrases used by the english equivalent of this person, they are not compatible. When english is passed through your eyeballs and into your brain you are accessing associations for other english speakers, english movies, english books, a guy you met one time 20 years ago in line at the grocery store. Theres the rub, people will often argue over literal translation vs localization but my assertion is they are two sides of the same coin. In both cases neither is presenting you an accurate depiction of the original japanese, one just hopefully has less pop culture memes in it, and thats the essence of what most people hate in the first place. What EOPs really need is translation so engrish it could never be associated with actual english written by an english speaker. When you see a NPC on screen speaking the dialogue so be so mangled and barely intelligible that you cant help but to read it in a racist voice and you would have no connections to other english media therefore creating the most faithful english translation of all time.That or just learn Japanese and be free from your slave binds.
>>12561425You localizers are so funny in how ass-backwards you perceive Japanese to be. I wonder if you guys are so confused by Japanese that you really think it's unintelligible slop without all the rewrites and memes.
>>12561425>just learn JapaneseAnd even then you'll never truly understand it the same way as those literally born and raised in the language and culture from birth.
>>12561442This is so dumb. Of course you will understand it. It's just a language. All of it can be learned.
>>12561435>You localizersI would never in a million years be a willing participant in changing japanese media, something i love, into english, the worst thing to ever exist. I take offense to you calling me a localizer, how insulting.
>>12558129something in between. hard literal translations are rarely useful unless you yourself are familiar with the source language and can infer what was originally said using it.i don't like completely changed or heavily americanised translations either, i'd rather something more like an "equivalent" translation, rather than literal, something that an english speaker might say, but is as close to the original intention as possible still
>>12561453To a localizer, what you're asking for is a literal translation.
>>12561447Learned, yes, but never properly understood. Your brain will just be too hard-wired in English to be able to comprehend the actual nuance and context that comes with speaking Japanese (or any foreign language thereof).
>>12559607huzzah is actually really suited given the context- dates back half a millennia, which works for games like that which are in an alternate past type setting- used by sailors, they're saying it on a boat
>>12561462As soon as the meaning is told to you, then congrats, you understand fully how something works.
>>12561464You darn tootin' betcha there squiddo
the Japanese language is awful and boring so localizations are better and add actual character and flair. Your example is clearly awful though and a massive outlier
>>12558129Case by case situation, translator shouldn't localize idioms as long as they're comprehensible without context. They DEFINITELY should not localize something because it hurts western audiences (and this goes both sides, from leftists being hurt about objectification of women to rightists being mad about the drinking boxer in punch-out and games with references to the devil). The translator's task is to make the art comprehensible to the new audience in the closest possible form. Imagine the scandal that would follow if book translators were making things up like video game translators do?
>>12561471It's not awful and boring. It sounds just like any other language. Do you even speak it?
>>12559773"lets go" is gen z slang for "fuck yeah"
>>12559786>>12559796if you actually gave the AI any context it may have done a better jobyou know it's an old man in a '90s video game on a boat after a battle, so why not give the ai that context so it can do something more appropriate?
>>12560974it depends on the target audience. if it was a fansub or otherwise targeting "japanophile" people, perhaps they could have, but generally games are translated to sell to people who don't care where games come from
>>12561425i agree with all of this besides "racist voice", how is speaking something written like it has an accent with an accent "racist"?
>>12561471>the Japanese language is awful and boringJapanese is an interesting language in just about every aspect of linguistics. English is moronic braying by comparison, which is why it became the global lingua franca. Anybody can easily learn it, from African tribesmen to shit-encrusted Indians, whereas even the average whiteoid cowers in fear at the sight of a moon rune.
>>12561503I am invoking my english powers of association, a point I emphasized greatly in my previous post. By specifically mentioning "racist voice" english speakers will now picture Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's or a white comedian on youtube pretending to be Japanese reading the lines of a Final Fantasy game and this is meant to make the reader (you) laugh
>>12561526i think it speaks more about yourself that you'd assume racist intent when speaking with an alternate accenthttps://youtu.be/_7TacvYrnjI
>>12561538i think it speaks more about yourself that you would rather argue with someone making a joke rather than laugh at a joke.
>>12561542i'm not familiar with that early '60s american comedy film, and i'm not sure how someone speaking FF lines in a japanese accent by itself would be funnydo you think japanese people speak funny?
>>12561518English has complicated prepositional phrases, whereas Japanese has simple particle-based constructions. Neither language is especially difficult in a bubble, but mapping one to the other can be complex.
>>12561320Or saying “Success” might fit better
>>12561646No, that would definitely not fit better. Why are you trying to gild the lily?
>>12561656It is more accurate than saying we did it
>>12561676It is less accurate, literally.
>>12561471trvke
>>12561518No, he's correct. Japanese is a dogshit language. Lol at foreigners who learned it. For crappy video games, no less
>>12562159>I don't know anything about this language but it's dog shit.Compelling stuff.
>>12558129The culturally informed translation of "Yesss!" implies the connotation of cheese biscuits and mash potatoes, especially in this dialectal context. Ask any native Japanese speaker and they'll tell you the same.
>>12558129No
>>12562162Who said I didn't know anything? I know a reasonable amount. It's dogshit
>>12562181So what's so bad about it? I've learned Latin and german, they're all pretty rough. Japanese has multiple alphabets and a different sentence structure but you aren't conjugating your sentence around the gender of a coffee mug.
>>12562227Die, der, das? English doesn't concern itself as heavily with gender as other western languages. People say it's difficult but "the" just means "the." There's no female the for coffee cups or male the for knives or whatever. Japanese is gendered, but not in that way.
>>12562227>>12562240What does this have to do with /vr/? Go back to /jp/ have your japshit semantic arguments there. It's a dogshit language because the order of sentences is upside, it's deeply context-dependant and uses a million squigglies that you have to memorize.Fuck off to /jp/ the both of you. Assuming it's not you just samefagging, which it certainly could be
>>12562261I'm the same guy. That's the topic of the thread. It's what you have been talking about.Yeah, japan does have an ass backwards sentence structure, moon runes, and is heavily context based to where they don't use pronouns.But, every language is difficult coming from English. That's all I was saying.
>>12562269Like, again, in German (and I think French and Spanish) you have to memorize the gender of every single object or thing that exists and you look silly if you misgender them, Japanese doesn't require that.
>>12558129I don't care so long as I can read it
>>12562275>you have to memorizeNot if you're reading and listening like you're supposed to. Actively trying to memorize grammatical gender is a waste of time when you could just osmose it naturally through exposure and with memorable context supporting it.
>>12562324Yeah, but that assumes you live there, which I haven't (Germany) for 20 years.It's harder to learn a language with just a book and software.
>>12562350>Yeah, but that assumes you live thereYou don't have to live somewhere to take in large quantities of a language.
>>12562369True, but I'm not particularly motivated. I lived there 20+ years ago. What does knowing the gender of a snow shovel do for me?I get what you're saying though. You could seek out media, lots of exchange students I knew would binge Friends to learn English ways of speaking. Still, nothing trumps being there and learning from your mistakes.
>>12558129Western localizations, literal translations are often way cheezy and does not translate well in English.
literal translations>"I express to you my sincere gratitude with humility and warmth for your generous assistance in facilitating this moment of my life and may the memory of your kindness remain preserved in the chambers of my heart."localization>"Thanks bro."I prefer the second
>>12562436There is no Japanese sentence that will read like that.
>>12562429Post an example of this "cheesy" literal translation. Let's see if it's actually because of the translator being overly faithful to the Japanese or not.
>>12562497
>>12562503That's not literal. だってばよ is idiomatic and literally means "if that's what I said it is, then (that's what it is)." The standard translation would be "I'm telling you!"
>>12562579> literally means "if that's what I said it is, then (that's what it is)"so literal translation fags prefer this? lmaoEven "I'm telling you!" would be dumb if Naruto said that in English on his every other line. Thank god for "Western Localizationers" for keeping it western friendly
>>12558129A middle ground, maybe leaning more towards literal cause I like cultural aspects and references to be kept the same. A fully literal translation would not be easy to understand, but I don't like excessive localization that leads to "jellyfilled donuts" moments, so yeah. Middleground.
>>12562585No, no one prefers that because that's an expression. That's why your dictionary provides you semantic equivalents.Sounds like you need to brush up on your Japanese lol
>>12562587Middle ground is just a standard translation that most people expect. Localizers are the ones always creating the false dichotomy that it's their translation or bust.
>>12562593I really don’t understand why their can’t be a middle ground for allowing of grammatical correctness but using the exact same meaning and not going wildly off scriptI really don’t understand
>>12562609Because translation tends to be oversimplified by people who don't know much about it. And I don't mean the action of translation, I mean translation as a subject (it's development, history, the action itself, etc.) From what I learned though, you'll have to point the finger at the US and UK, as those two countries dictated it was best to practice localization instead of a translation that was more respecting of the original source material. That's not to say localization is bad tho! Sometimes it is needed and it is appropiate, but the trend did start in english-speaking countries and it was particularly strong in vidya due to marketing strategies and fear of losing sales.t. a random ass guy close to being a translator himself.
>>12562587To be fair, it was translated as "rice ball" where I'm from and as a kid I was very confused. Translations like that are probably fine if you are translating a kids' anime
>>12562618I heard them be called "chocolate eclairs" in one episode. Even back then with my limited knowledge was confused because they looked like there wasn't enough chocolate to be called that.
>>12562618Well, yes. There's not a single appropiate way to translate, localization and translation are both valid, but I prefer the former, it depends on the vision/stance you have about it. Personally I know I would've been confused as a kid if rice balls was used, but I am curious and would've liked for the identity of the source material to be kept. But the choice of localizing it at that moment in time was valid, Japanese culture was not really known as well as it is known today and the show didn't have a very strong Japanese identity at a first glance (althought Pokemon did have a lot of localization that might cloud my judgement there, but I mean that you did not have Ash and Misty talk about the stroll they had through Tokyo and how the next gym was in Kyoto, it was less direct and it seemed like a fantasy world at first).
>>12562609I used to think it was purely out of malice, but nowadays I think they genuinely just get confused at what they're looking at and use the meme dialogue to cover it up. Like with the Yunyun controversy, they translated "オマエ! 見ているなッ!" (lit., "You! You're watching me, aren't you!"), which is a Jojo reference, as "HOLY SHITBALLS! DON'T PERCIEVE ME!"Now, at first glance, they just added meme-y dialogue, however, we can also see that they completely misunderstood the phrase. Only verbs in the dictionary form can be made into negative commands, yet the translator was so unfamiliar with the language that they got even this wrong.
>>12562648It wasn't valid at all. It just led to more confusion. That's why so many people bring it up as an example of bad translation. I swear you guys are some of the densest people I've ever seen.
>>12562648*prefer the latter. Fucked up there. Also would like to add, knowing how episodic releases are treated, maybe your solution of a localization is damaged in retrospect by the development of the story. Say you adapt an episode to take place in NY instead of Tokyo because of a localization of a quick joke. 3 episodes later, characters make reference to having been in Tokyo, visit it again and show cultural aspects of it. You have to backpedal or correct EVERYTHING.The example is wishy washy snd barely put together, but I hope it gets the point across. >>12562658Sorry to say, but in a sense it was valid to localize. >>12562618 just said they were confused as a kid at the mention of rice balls. A kid at that moment in time probably did not know what kind of food a rice ball is, hence as little as the moment is, the moment of "I enjoy a snack" gets lost on the audience. Now, was the choice of "jelly filled donut" appropiate? Don't think so. Would I make the choice if asked to translate? No, I disagree with the vision. Is the choice to localize itself valid in this instance? Yes, as it has the purpose of providing clarity.
>>12562683There's no way to "localize" that food. The confusion lies in the food itself, not the actual name used. That's why localization as a practice fails completely.
>>12562694There is. You just have to think of a food that looks similar enough. Localization focuses far more on the situation and "experience" of the original audience to evoke the same feeling in the target audience. At least in such a quick context. As I said, the choice of jelly filled donut is bad, what brock had in his hand did not look like it. But the idea of localizing itself is valid if it leads to confusion, as much as it pains me to admit, because I don't prefer localization.Besides, if localization did not work, you would be against the names of Misty and Brock too, as their original names are a reference to two types of plants. Unless you want to literally translate the names and end up with their japanese names, that would mean nothing to a kid (and that is the target audience) or you translate them literally into Brave Stone and Foggy Sea, and those sound unnatural. Also, the reference to plants names is lost in both, cause kids dont know japanese in the first one and the double meaning is lost in the second.
>>12562729There is no food that looks like onigiri because it is specifically a Japanese delicacy. Nothing short of reanimating the scene would make that cultural item make sense.Also, the name argument is the least logical of them all. Names are just names. Also, very strange straw man you created with the literal translation of their names, since they aren't actually rendered with kanji. Takeshi, which is a common name, could be glossed as 武 ("brave"), but claiming the "shi" part is a pun on "ishi" is a bit of a stretch. It's also not a plant.
