Why do you guys act like RPG games is a challenging genre? I see a lot of people say, "Have you even played x game?" As if people would lie about playing something? I don't get it.If you can, name some RPG's you consider being the hardest. Because quite frankly, I don't think it's all that hard.
i would do anything to violently impregnate Yuffie
>>3473532Stop.
>>3473530RPG is a wide as fuck genre. Catch is anything that might be challenging ended up spun-off into its own category like dungeon crawlers and whatnot, so they're magically no longer RPGs.
Many older RPGs can be quite challenging in terms of patience and determination, if perhaps not necessarily in terms of skill.Example? Might and Magic 9
>>3473535>Many older RPGs can be quite challenging in terms of patience and determination,I feel like this is a meme and the only thing challenging about old school RPG's is how tedious and cumbersome it is to navigate through everything.
>>3473533shes brofisting me though, that means she wants it
>>3473532YAFFY
>>3473530There are some challenging RPGs meaning they take more than gear/level checks to progress in and lean heavy on players actual skill NIOH 1 and 2SOULSBOURNESSEKIROBOURNEMONSTER HUNTER SERIES (soloing high rank shit is pretty hard)Ys oath and origins, hardest dipsWizardry and wizardry likes (elminage gothic etc)Smt Strange JourneyDiablo games (hardcore runs)Etc
Infra Arcana is difficult by design. *bands and even *hacks are difficult if you are not experienced enough.
>>3473559>hardcore runsmost RPGs become more challenging when you strictly do not savescum - even old and tired classics like Fallout 1 or Baldur's Gate 1 become whole another ballgame
>>3473530RPGs get clowned on hard these days because everything you could ever want to know is online. I guarantee you 90% of the people playing shit like 7th Saga back in the day were getting their shit pushed in.
>>3473594This is accurate. Wiki faggotry definitely doesn’t help
>>3473534>RPG is a wide as fuck genreAnd yet, according to this board, nothing is a role playing game
>>3473559>MONSTER HUNTER>RPG?
>>3473530>Why do you guys act like RPG games is a challenging genre?Most people don't. But sometimes people discuss relative difficulty between (usually similar) games.Discussions about relative difficulty are almost always derailed by people talking past each other and not understanding (much less agreeing on) what challenge even means in an RPG in the first place. Faggot OP is a perfect example of this but this thread has plenty of examples.>>3473535 >>3473543Case in point, fags immediately generalizing that RPGs don't take "skill" (whatever that means) and anything requiring more attention than Chrono Trigger is just "tedious and cumbersome".>>3473559Obligatory ARPG fag too mentally crippled to do anything but apply action game standards.>>3473534>dungeon crawlers and whatnot, so they're magically no longer RPGs.Dungeon Crawlers are RPGs (mostly), although sometimes lack the game world detail expected in an RPG.And again it's not clear what this guy imagines "challenge" should be in an RPG.>>3473817Random whiny redditor chimes in trying to win dumbest post award.>>3473564>>3473594>>3473602These are valid (if simple) points, though. Possible starting point but these posts will be ignored.
>>3473874I don't know or care what side of this stupid argument you're on, I just saw your post on the front page and came in to tell you you're a faggot.Carry on, everyone.
>>3473876I know, you love being a retard on a board for retards and can't help telling me about it.
>don't use items>don't use debuffs>don't use buffs>don't use status ailments>because "none of those do anything anyway">spend hours grinding levels to make up for a deficit you could've made up for with any of the above>"wow why are rpgs so boring, grindy, and easy???"the above is how the average "rpgs aren't hard and never can be" person's experience with rpgs goes. >but that's a strawman!no, it's a real man, one whom you've seen many of in your years of being online talking about video games.
>>3473978>sigh, I wish more RPGs were like Super Mario RPG and Chrono Trigger..This man often says this as well.
>>3473530It's less about them being hard and more about them being unreasonably time-consuming.
>>3473594>RPGs get clowned on hard these days because everything you could ever want to know is online.????There were strategy guides everywhere even before the great internet boom so I don't think it was that much of an issue.
>>3473978Ok but what does this have to do with Morrowind?
>>3473530>If you can, name some RPG's you consider being the hardestfallout 1 and especially 2
>>3474266>There were strategy guides everywhere even before the great internet boom so I don't think it was that much of an issue.It would still require you to either have access to the guide itself or someone who did. Outside that most game secrets and stratagems where figured out through group discussion and experimentation. It's why we had so many YOU CAN TOTALLY REVIVE AERITH GUYS rumors and shit.
>>3474266You had to get your folks to drive you to the store and then you had to hope they had a guide for the game you were stuck in. Kids now can just open their smart phone and look at google immediately when they get stuck. Completely different.
>>3473530This is really important so pay attention. The issue isn't whether or not a game is hard or not, its whether or not the content you are consuming is shallow and lazy. Like everyone can enjoy watching a trashie movie once in awhile, but no one wants to be around someone who consumes trash all the time. Like the guy who only plays final fantasy games and types up giant text walls on wiki theories or has hundreds of hours in elder scrolls, that person is a smelly retard and needs to fuck off. We should have 20 good threads for every 1 thread on the trash you play, but instead we have 1 good thread for every 20 pretty much identical threads on the absolute goyslop you play. Its really that simple. Can't play shit games all the time and people are politely giving you a push in the right direction instead of pointing out that you're an unlikable subhuman retard and an enormous burden on everyone around you.
>>3473978Some people do their best to play games in the most autistic unfun manner and complain about it online. Best to ignore.
>>3473530Lufia 2 has an entire 100 floor roguelite.The last 40 floors are higher than the base game goes so you start meeting enemies that are only in there. Boss at the bottom requires doing 10k damage in 3 turns which is absurdly high so you have to balance leveling and not dying.
>>3473530>FF4 steam hard mode with ABS meter turned all the way up.>FFT 1.3 mod>TO:R>Triangle Strategy hard mode
>>3473530>I see a lot of people say, "Have you even played x game?" As if people would lie about playing something? I don't get it.RPGs take a lot of time to complete. When people accuse others of not having played some RPGs, what they're doing has nothing to do with challenge. It's about lack of experiences. If you're going into this genre looking for challenge then you don't get it, and it would be a waste of time to ironically recommend you games.
>>3473530>As if people would lie about playing something?Poeple lie about playing things all the time. Hell, the entire modern "roguelike" bullshit is because people wanted the difficulty cred for playing Rogue-likes but didn't want to have to play games like Rogue or with any difficulty.
>>3474443You're somewhat right, about heavily autistic fags who obsess over a single game or series at least, but you're part of the problem too. You're an insufferable cunt no one wants to be around. So take your own advice.
Five-starring all missions and encounters in FF13 is tricky but will never impede you from finishing the main storyline.
>>3474391F1 needs you to git gud (which includes seriously optimizing your build, the playstyles were not made equal) or savescum a lot. Most people choose to do the latter, because they never stopped to think hard enough to realize the prior is even possible.F2 is more of the same, once you've realized the pattern it's just tedious rather than difficult.
RPGs are easy because A. Success is determined by character stats, not player skill, and with patience and time you can increase character stats to meet any challenge, and B. you can just reload and savescum when anything bad happens. You’d need to play Ironman and permadeath to be hard.
>>3474929Yeah, opinions on difficulty can vary wildly depending on how someone played the game, which also affects their opinion on the gameplay. Like savescumming already removes so much that may have otherwise made the experience more engaging.
>>3474929>Success is determined by character stats, not player skill, and with patience and time you can increase character stats to meet any challengeNot true of every game.Also, in most practical discussions, even if the grinding option is available only braindead retards are incapable of discussing the topic in terms of reasonable playstyles. Ironic how simple discussions are far too difficult for people who pretend to want more challenge in RPGs.
>>3474929That said, savescumming is a legitimate issue on most videogame RPGs.It's an inherent problem translating the tabletop genre to a videogame.RPGs are designed around death being essentially final. Resurrections are eventually possible but not meant to be a routine part of gameplay (as extra lives and continues are in an action game, for example).But the thing is, the "content" in a TTRPG is essentially infinite and ongoing. If one character dies, you roll a new one and either pick up the old adventure by joining the rest of the party, or start a new adventure. Maybe you adventure in some of the same dungeons again but the experience will still be very different this time. Time in the game world marches on.In a videogame, starting over generally means you have to do everything you already did, again. Watch the exact same cutscenes, exact same dialog, exact same encounters, exact same treasures and loot, etc etc. That's not how an RPG is supposed to work. Yeah sure you can do it with a different build or different character but that's still not at all like what would happen in a tabletop RPG where time actually moves on after the death of the original character.
>>3475077>savescumming is a legitimate issue on most videogame RPGs.I'd say it's an issue on most games. Someone playing Castlevania on NES will have a different perception and experience than someone on an emulator savescumming a perfect run through the game. It affects many aspects, like managing resources, being cautious, tension, choices, difficulty..Dark Souls would be significantly worse if it allowed quicksaves.
There are only a few difficult singleplayer games desu, and they are rhythm or bullet-hell autism. RPGs have much harder fights than most action games.
>>3475077A TT game world could in theory be re-set but it would still react differently to different characters. Even to the same characters doing different things.
>>3473530Become fire punch
>>3474941Or it makes the game better by not making it a crapshoot. The vast majority of RPGs are not designed around ironman and even those with the option usually aren't.
>>3474575That makes me mad. I am friends with the ADOM creator and I thanked him for making that game and 2 retards thought I never played it.
>>3475115>Someone playing Castlevania on NES will have a different perception and experience than someone on an emulator savescumming a perfect run through the gameThat's not an issue with the game though, the game was not designed to be savestated on an emulator, if you do that you know you are cheating. Same with Dark Souls. Both of those games have checkpoints and retries built into the design. It's not the designer's fault if you cheat the system.
>>3475375>the game was not designed to be savestatedWhat games are?
>>3475377some romhacks/homebrew probably
>>3475401Yeah probably lolI'd say more games would benefit from disallowing quicksaving, but "taking it away" from players could cause tantrums.
>>3473530Inflated ego and tribalism. Losers want to be the cool guys and belong to a cool group, then try that with cRPGs without realizing how retarded they look.
>>3473873it is
>>3473978Chrono Cross figured out the solution to this years ago with level gating and encounter design. With this they could have made it as challenging as they wanted (the fact that they decided to make it piss easy regardless is beside the point).
>>3473533then don't post coombait
>>3473530>As if people would lie about playing something?They would and do so that they seem like they have more credibility or experience with a topic than they actually do. The internet has made it incredibly easy to look up a few bare necessity facts and reviews to pretend you know what you're talking about so that you can act like you're any kind of authority on a matter for a smug sense of superiority.
>>3473530Library of Ruina is the most difficult game of all time period. The fact that you have to actually read in order to play it already filters 99.9% of the market. Not exactly a traditional RPG, but there's an example for you.
>>3475377Totally irrelevant to the point.1. RPGs pretend to simulate life and so death is permanent. But RPGs usually deliberately include "reloading from save" mechanics. In Baldur's Gate 1+2, for example, you can save almost anywhere so long as you aren't actively in combat. That's almost savestate-tier scumming potential. And doing that tends to be far easier than trying to figure out appropriate stakes for total wipe, if not permadeath.2. Action games aren't pretending to simulate life and make no pretense that death is anything but a metaphor and temporary setback. Dark Souls does this on the nose with the whole "Going Hollow" rhetoric which basically means "to give up." So long as you don't give up you'll keep respawning at bonfires to try again.
>>3478436Savescumming affects game design outside of RPGs simulating life and death, so yeah it's relevant
>>3478445>Savescumming affects game designExplain yourself then. You aren't making sense because games aren't designed to be played on savestating emulators.
>>3478450>games aren't designed to be played on savestating emulators.Yet those games allow quicksaves and loads
>>3473530keep complaining and pretending your shitty baldur is gay is a good game when it isn't>but i have to use several buttons to play it is challengingnope it isn't and will never compare to good japan rpg>but you press one buttonnope you take strategic choices depending on the enemy there is not one button is a sequence of choices you make" i could say the same of god of war "you press one button only how is that even challenging" we know is the truth and GOW games have no challenge at all
>>3479006I sense some projection.
>>3474266>Strategy guides raining from the skyNo there weren't, Nintendo used to run a charge for the minute hotline where a bored service rep would eventually get on and tell you how to use the whirlwind on that one wall in Castlevania II or so my friend told me, who is bad at games and always was even when he was very young.You were lucky to get a hint in the pages of the instruction book you might have re-read a few times looking for clues, or someone dropped a hint in a Nintendo Power issue.Imagine even before that when the instructions were printed on a single card in a ziploc baggy which was also the marketing cover for the cassette tape hanging on the rack at Radio Shack.Printing costs had to steadily get a lot cheaper before your "strategy guides everywhere" Prima games guide glut etc.
>>3473530Turn based rpgs have some issues if they get too difficult because difficulty a lot of the times is just add way more hp to the enemies and reduce the damage the player deals per turn. In some ARPGs you can bypass this by doing perfect dodges/rolls etc. But, in turn based games you are basically fucked and will have to grind until you are suppose to fight the boss.
>>3479181>No there weren't,Yes huh.>Nintendo used to run a charge for the minute hotlineNo one fucking used this lmao. Just buy the strategy guide with all info for like 10 dollars lmao
>>3473532nice
>>3479183>devs are kind and let scrubs grind to get through bosses rather than solving the encounter>low IQ players assume this means they were supposed to grindmany such cases.
>>3473530Like all genres, if there is no difficulty setting the game is usually quite easy and if they have one there obviously exist some that are very hard:>Tales of Maj'Eyal (Insane/Madness)>Trails in the sky FC/SC (Nightmare)>Pathfinder WoTR (Unfair)To name a few I found challenging. The problem with balancing turn-based games compared to action games is that when you fail in a action game it is often easy to see what you have to do to win - just dodge the attack that hit you or something similar. But when you fail in a turn-based game it isn't always obvious what you did wrong or that the fight is even winnable, leading retards to assume you need to grind. Furthermore what "tools" you allow also greatly affect difficulty more in turn-based games. Do you allow build guides, walkthroughs, grinding, unrestricted saving and unlimited retries? Depending on the game it might be possible to just copy a youtube walkthrough turn-by-turn to easily beat even the hardest difficulty or grind infinite stats/gear so that you can attack-n-heal the final boss.
Video games are not challenging. Anyone's abusive psychiatrist would be happy to prescribe him performance enhancing amphetamines to make him better at Overwatch or some shit. Watch Star Trek. Play Xenogears/Saga. Learn chess and Go. Learn several foreign languages. Pursue an undergraduate math or CS education. Measure dicks with /sci/.
>>3482518I am 6.5" X 5.5" but I do not know why /sci/ wants to know this.
>>3482520I am 6' and 90 kg. My psychiatrist won't tell me what my IQ is, even though he had me pay $600 to have it tested.
>>3482528My test was 127 but that was a while ago, it has probably dropped now. Either way I am a midwit.
>>3473532Continue.
>>3473530Most Dungeon RPGs get really hard towards the endgame, though it's admittedly just a matter of finding the broken setup you need.
>>3482520He is from a modern variety of /sci/entist. Back in the day the majority knew that some games can be hard becaus they weren't plebs and/or children.
>>3474884and? that's why the games are hard, it's not like they have mechanical challenge
>>3473530Legend of dragoon kicked my ass many times until I was 12.Ff12 always beats the shit out of me right near the end of the campaign. Ive never beaten the game cause of that.Dqm dark prince legitamitely filtered me with the mid area story boss recently.
