Just finished the main story and I really don't get why this game is so maligned. Did auto-battle really filter journalists that hard? Considering strategic orientation of the battle system toward paradigm deck composition and paradigm shifts, auto-battle was a good and useful mechanic. I think the "hall way sim" complaint is overblown, the linear and open segments are well-balanced. People complain about the "20 hour tutorial" which I really don't understand, the early-to-mid part of any JRPG is going to be a different kind of experience than the late-to-postgame, and this game does a good job differentiating the segments. Two-man battle teams present a different, somewhat more desperate challenge than the late game where you have all options at your disposal. And, I love the menus, I love the UI design overall and don't get why people complain so much about the Crystarium. Even though its sections are more linear than the Sphere Grid, you actually have pretty significant control over how you develop the characters until the deep post-game.Admittedly, Taejin's Tower and Oerba feel unfinished, the weapon upgrade system is tedious, and the summons felt like wasted potential. But this game delivers on graphics, gameplay and story imho.What did you think of FF13? Should I keep going with the post-game grind or just jump right into XIII-2?
>>3478460It's a game whose pedigree and execution completely handicapped what is otherwise a solid game.Large 'open' worlds were hot back then, the idea of fully exploring an HD fantasy world in FF after the narrow scope of 10 and the larger worlds teased in 11&12 was what people were craving. Its for this reason I think diehard fans tried to reconcile it by saying "it opens up at the end", as if that suddenly changed any of the failings.Moreover the story does so much telling (and reading) instead of showing that people only remember the latter and that's the melodrama. I'm still of the opinion that the shite dub led people believe this was a further descent into 'animefying' the series away from its original root. Two marks against it.So with people bouncing off the narrative and characters and there being no real exploration of the world to immerse themselves in, they turned to combat and just saw "autocombat" and gave up. Only the remaining people who stuck with it long enough saw the story get out of its confusing start, begin to enjoy with the intricacies of its mechanics, and finally walk away with a surprisingly unique experience that felt like a perfect evolution between 10 & 12When you come back to it now, without expectations in place, I think the strengths and weaknesses are much clearer. The 20 hour tutorial, hallway sim are flimsy at best while the botched handling of jargon, limiting nature of the Crystarium, and late-game being rushed are valid.
>>3478537That said, for every two steps forward 13-2 takes, it feels like it takes one to the side. Characters sparkle with personality, but there's less of them. Combat is smoothed out, but the monhun is so underbaked and tacked on it feels a best of DLC than a full sequel. The narrative also recoiled at all the complaints about fal/la'cie confusion so it drops all of it, making it feel even less like a sequel in some ways. Yet in spite of that, the lore it adds feels even more interesting and meaningful, the asset reuse falls completely to the side with the loving passion they poured into the gorgeous vistas and the fantastic OST (somehow better than the first), all of it feeling like the game 13 could have been. Problem is, you have to play 13 first. And when you do play afterwards, you might get burned out with how similar they feel. So take that as you will.
>>3478544Now for a super hot take: 13-3 doesn't nearly get shit on enough. All the open world slop people associate with 14 and 7R started here and it's perhaps even more egregious - 14 you can see what they were trying to go for, 7R you can be cynical enough to handwave it away. 13-3? Every story beat is dumber than the last, every combat encounter bloats the game so you can't speed through what little narrative filler there actually is, and the culmination of it all not being coherent or interesting in the slightest. But because they made a unique combat system and manage to tie things up well enough, the few who persisted through the previous two games claim its the best of the trilogy despite being so removed from it in nearly every possible aspect
>>3478460>I really don't get why this game is so maligned.It's a combination of three problems:1. Gen Y grew up with spiritually impoverished lives. Their parents didn't want to actually parent them, and instead sat them down in front of toys and TV hoping that the kids would stop bugging them for attention. This led to a generation of men with terminal consoomerism and nostalgia. These are the same people who grew up with watching the Original Trilogy of Star Wars on VHS and then threw a temper tantrum when George Lucas didn't give them the exact same thing with the Prequel trilogy. This is the generation that grew up with the PS1 Final Fantasy games. These are the Spoonys and the Plinketts.2. FF13 did not meet fan expectations. Final Fantasy has three identifying elements: 1. trekking across a vast wilderness, 2. cinematic menu based combat, and 3. traditional fantasy aesthetics. Starting with the PS2 FF games, the franchise stopped meeting all three expectations. FF10 had no exploration. FF12 ditched the cinematic combat experience. FF13 not only didn't have exploration, but it didn't have the traditional fantasy aesthetics either, with most of the game being set in futuristic sci fi environments. No, FF7 doesn't count. The disselpunk dystopia of Midgar was just disc 1. The rest of FF7 was more familiar. Combine this with problem #1 and this issue was exacerbated tenfold.3. Videogame "journalists" reviled Japan (and still do) in the 2000s. They routinely mocked anime and JRPGs. Lots of people still looked to IGN or Penny Arcade as an authority and regurgitated the rhetoric spouted there.Personally, I think FF13 is a great game. Much better than most videogames coming out within the last decade. It should not have been labelled as a Final Fantasy title, though, as that comes with certain expectations that it would not meet. Same with FF15 and FF16. The Last Remnant and Lost Odyssey would have been more appropriate for the title of FF13.
>>34784601. The game is almost entirely one long hallway.2. There's a lot of "Tell, don't show", with important lore and world building being relegated to text dumps in datalogs.3. Both the battle system and the "leveling" system in the form of the Crystarium aren't very interesting. They lack depth and feel samey from one character to another.4. The characters spend half the game being split up from each other, each wallowing in their own melodramatic angst and being generally unlikable.I'm probably making that sound overly harsh since I genuinely did like the game and came to enjoy the story and characters by the end of it, but I can understand why people would be filtered by it and a lot of the criticism is valid.
>>3478460FF13's great. RPG players simply cannot let go of what they think RPGs are "supposed to be," so if a game challenges any of that they have a meltdown over it.I think that if it wasn't a mainline numbered FF but a spinoff, it'd be remembered pretty fondly.
I bought it the day it released on PS3. I beat it.It's really boring to play and someone else's idea of eye candy. I never felt invested in any of the characters and they felt like caricatures chosen specifically to appeal to different groups of players. There was no sense of adventure. It's boring.
>>3478460FF XIII was attacked in order to westernize FF and SE totally, and the attack was effective. It's one of the better FF's
Schizo thread?
>>3478460>I really don't getI know you don't get it which is why letting final fantasy spam remain here is such an enormous danger
>>3478757I think you may be on to something, it really seems like the entire generation moved that way.
>>3478763No, just bad tastes: the thread
>>3478460>Just finished the main story and I really don't get why this game is so maligned.And that's the saddest part. People have become so accustomed to crap that they don't even realize it.
>>3478771>>3478835So you guys just feel you're possessed of such a transparently obvious sense of "what makes a good video game" that it needs no further explanation?
>>3478757The mid 2000s era was nothing but nonstop Westoid attacks on all Japanese gaming period. That was the time when Phil Fish was still revered and made a bunch of headlines shitting on Japanese games, which caused all the other journos to realize they could just do the same thing and get a bunch of clicks. Which in turn lead to Japanese devs changing their focus to desperately chasing the Westoid audience.
>>3478460nope it was simply is not an rpg in any way,story is unfinished and is a rail game without escape or other way to explore it.It doesn't look bad but is all it has in it's favor because is not a fantasy rpg is a rail game that you can't deviate,if you suffer in an area because you are underleveled well bad luck you can't return to previous point to level up,forgot to grab something important because you wanted to grab it later...welll bad luck you can't return so forget about that item and so on.
>>3478460just go to xiii-2, it's much better.>>3478719>1. The game is almost entirely one long hallway.pretty much this up until gran-pulse>2. There's a lot of "Tell, don't show", with important lore and world building being relegated to text dumps in datalogs.We never got to truly explore the world of Cocoon, from the data-longs and what was described it honestly seemed like a really interesting world thousands of years in the future. >3Honestly should have been an action RPG like trails of mana >4.Yeah pretty much everyone but snow.>>3478846it was 2010, also Phil Fish evaporated after a few years of anon trolling. Wtf did he even do anyway? He spoke at GDC once or twice and made a platformer, what else?
>>3478846>reveredNo one ever 'revered' that buck toothed hipster outside of the incestuous buck toothed hipster CA clique itself.>Japanese games, which caused all the other journos to realize they could just do the same thing and get a bunch of clicks. Which in turn lead to Japanese devs changing their focus to desperately chasing the Westoid audience.Japan is too fucking polite for its own good sometimes. Conditioned by too much nuclear armageddon and hikkimori fare at this point.
>>3478846It's almost like games journalists are a bunch of petulant, narcissistic and entitled parasite class who are responsible for inflicting a huge amount of damage on the creative liberties, freedoms and identities of game developers. Who'd have thought?Anyway, my take: FFXIII is okay. It's not great, it's not bad, it's competent and solid, and for a certain type of player (the kind that just loves a good dramatic story filled with weird lore, outrageous action, beautiful art, and emotionally transparent characters) it hits especially hard.I haven't been able to replay it due to the tedium, but I've rewatched the stories dozens of times and find them more interesting than people give them credit for. They're 'off' in places, but the overall ideas behind FFXIII were great, and the themes still hit home for me.
I've ignored every post itt except for this one >>3479142>No one ever 'revered' that buck toothed hipster outside of the incestuous buck toothed hipster CA clique itself.Even that wasn't a blanket covering either desu, go back in time and you'll see plenty of people who'd go on to write for Kotaku etc shitting on him for his anti-Japanese tirades. Admittedly, they were weebs who were happy to live in Japan and enjoyed Japanese games but they still got ridiculed for it. Even the journos in that scene who'd go onto other hustles like game archiving and don't play Japanese games were shitting on him at the time.The type of clique journos who supported this were the type of people to get mindbroken while fishing in NieR, refuse to review the game and found Polygon.More importantly Lightning is for sexo, sexo sexo lightning awoooooooga
>>3478588I approve of this assessment. Interesting take on gen y, hadn't thought about it from this angle before, but it does explain a lot of the cynicism, nostalgia addiction and devaluing of creative exploration we've seen them support.I do wonder how FFXIII would have been received if it had just been titled something like "the Lightning Trilogy" or just billed as a spin off from the start like tactics, advertised as being a kind of edgy, speedy cousin to Final Fantasy instead of a mainline.
>>3478588>A SaGalike would have been more appropriate for the title of FF13I love Kawazu, I'd ride around on the back of Takai whipping him saying go boy go boy faster whooppeeeeeeeeeee and I still wouldn't give TLR an FF title. When I heard he was to direct XVI I even joked he'd make the great filter FF to honour his father but that was a joke.
>>3479161That is what it was billed as desu. FF XIII was the start of a new arc of FF.
>>3478588This right here, especially part one. Sounds weird to say but zoomers are more spiritually aware and less likely are to be hylic mongoloids like millenials.
>>3479191Shame they've got an entirely new set of problems relating to identity diffusion as a result of being over socialized.Every new generation is like a shuffling of the variables. As the old law states, "everything changes, nothing is lost." I dread to think of what the next one will be.
>>3478588>ff doesn't suck!>people just need more jesus!You are so brown pajets wouldn't shit on you out of pure disgust.
>>3479199>>people just need more jesus!You do.
>>3479208Your Jesus makes you shill for shit games. We are clearly having different guy in mind as per 2 Corinthians 11:4.
>>3478588I’m a millenial. I love the prequel triology and have been playing final fantasy games since I was 5. I can tell you Final fantasy X and XII were both received on release. XIII was the first time I remember fans generally expressing dissatisfaction with a mainline entry. The move away from traditional turn based combat in XII was controversial at the time, but ATB was still a core mechanic and the matsuno/Ivalice story felt unmistakably “final fantasy”. XIII somehow felt completely separate from the series DNA, other than the nomura character designs. I remember watching the trailers and thinking it just felt off. I will admit I would probably rather play it than XV or XVI, though. I agree with you - if it were not labeled as final fantasy game the reception and legacy would be a lot different, probably more positive.
>>3479157>go back in time and you'll see plenty of people who'd go on to write for Kotaku etc shitting on him for his anti-Japanese tiradesI wonder if Tim Rodgers had anything to say regarding that.
>>3479229Yep, just another form of nostalgia - living in the past. Boomers really fucked up as parents, huh?
>>3479229>I can tell you Final fantasy X and XII were both received on release.That is a true statement.
>>3479234>I wonder if Tim Rodgers had anything to say regarding that.And I'm wondering if Tim Rogers is ever going to make another review video. It's been a year and a half damnit.
>>3479245He has been working on it, he's just a perfectionist and unable to let things go. Which is based if I do say so myself. Dude has to rethink his entire life to review a video game.
This game will always be the worst FF regardless of any contrarian revisionism or troll posts. I don't care if the sequels are better.
Boomers just can't move on desuMihoyo replaced FF and Zelda with Star Rail and Genshin completelyBut this board has a terminal love for old devs lmfao
can't you just play a game that isn't shit for once? this isn't amusing. you are boring
I bet the people disparaging FF13 ITT can't even five star a behemoth king without using deceptisol. And I think that's what made the game so controversial in the end - it's a skill-based strategy game that evaluates your performance.
>>3479584>i bet people who criticise me for being a faggot can't even fit five cocks in their mouth
>>3478460It's the last true final fantasy. It's not as bad as people say it is for sure. Everything that has come afterwards is a lot worse.
>>3479590>nigger hears an argument he disagrees with>immediately gushes a homosexual fantasy involving the antagonistMany such cases! Sad.
>>3479615>It's the last true final fantasy.It is absolutely not, and no amount of contrarian attempts to rehab its image will ever get it lumped in with the parts of the franchise people actually like.
>>3479622I'm not the one bragging about being very good at faggot simulator 2009. You can only blame yourself.
Lightning a cute
>>3479245>>3479253Part of that's because of Tim's weird process of playing other similar games when reviewing things and the other part's the perfectionism. The wait for LA noire seems long but he's not just working on that.The tail end of "season 1" was packed between Tokimeki & CP2077. Then S2 started with Boku no Natsuyasumi. Tokimeki was almost 6h, the Cyberpunk vids where 10h in total and boku was 6h.It's more disorientating because his first projects were self contained and short, FF7, Last of Us & Doom were in a bubble.Playing a game multiple times, taking notes and playing other games in the genre alongside it taking notes, recording, script writing & editing as one massive project like that's a lot of work. I'm happy to get a lot of content like that but at the same time I miss his written reviews or the stuff he did on Kotaku where it was a stream/video in a tight timeframe. There's less freedom there but deadlines attached to pay via corporation are a great motivator. >>3479234I went to check back when IC started as a podcast and it was 2012 so after IC started. He's mentioned him a few times in passing iirc. Although the guy likes indies and would like to make his own games he's also a massive weeb (despite his homesick rant about Japan). He's got a tremendous amount of respect for Japanese game design & developers.You could try an IC from around July 2013 when Fish had his big twitter melty.>>3478846Going back to this the discourse didn't start until the 7th gen indie scene started so it was at the tail end.However you can find the infamous bioware attack on FF XIII in 2010 https://www.eurogamer.net/bioware-man-ffxiii-is-not-an-rpg>>3479669She sure is.
>>3479881>However you can find the infamous bioware attack on FF XIII in 2010 https://www.eurogamer.net/bioware-man-ffxiii-is-not-an-rpgOh the irony. Bioware used to know how to make RPGs, but they sure as fuck don't anymore.
>>3478460This is the last good final fantasy.
I hated it>unlikable main cast except sazh sorta>some battles take way too long like the shell enemies>extremely linear with no towns or minigames to break it up>upgrading system stinks>ai isn’t great at helping and if you die game over>chapter 11 opens up but it’s all just hunting missions13-2 fixed pretty much every complaint i had and had a far better villain, far better game
>>3479933>>unlikable main cast except sazh sortaIf you don't like Snow, like you probably didn't like Tidus, you're just weak and emasculated.>>some battles take way too long like the shell enemiesYou need to get good. This game very consistently delivers skill - not stat, skill - checks. You need to use all your available paradigms effectively. The only genuinely unfair encounters in my mind are some of the flan groups, but that's only because the target time is retarded.>>extremely linearWasn't a problem in FF 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, first half of 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10. Not a problem in 13.>>upgrading system stinksI'll give you this one, it's definitely half-baked.>>ai isn’t great at helping and if you die game overLearn to paradigm shift. Learn to manage your paradigm deck. I found that timely paradigm shifting consistently resulted in the desired outcome (healing, buffs, etc). The only thing I sometimes found tricky was getting the whole team to target one enemy, it turns out that certain paradigms like Aggression and Cerberus are programmed as offensive screens where the team splits targeting, whereas Tri-Disaster and others focus on one enemy at a time. I also sometimes found secondary Saboteurs sometimes don't prioritize the best/least resisted debuff. But for the two or three encounters where it even mattered, I just made the Sab my battle team leader. I never swapped to a healing paradigm and didn't get the healing I needed where/when I needed it.>>chapter 11 opens up but it’s all just hunting missionsThis is a good feature.It's one of the more technical and skill-based FF's, I truly believe this is why people dislike it. They've been, as we say, filtered by the scoring system because they cant consistently get 5 star rating.
>>3479933I liked everyone except Lightning, who kept running off and leaving people behind including a teenager with no survival skills.I found the combat to be enjoyable.I agree that it is disappointing that there are no towns or minigames but I did not feel that the game suffered from monotony or pacing problems.Agreed that the crafting menu is tedious to navigate.AI is never the problem. You use Paradigm Shifts to do what is needed to be done.I liked the hunt missions. It's there if you want to sit down and get into the nitty gritty of the combat and character building for the challenge.
>>3479951>if you don't like retarded fags you are emasculatedAre weebs mentaly ill? Is this what too much hentai does to your brain?
>>3478460Fucking boring hallway simulator. A travesty of a game.
Yes Lightning does look wonderful when she mounts a chocobo, those long legs spreading wide, that tight little back arching, that perfect inviting ass put out.Yes op I too masturbate to video game characters, especially the ones from games that are objectively terrible.
>>3478460>What did you think of FF13?ff13 suffers heavily from two things>toriyama adding shit to the mainstory>dev hellThis game was written by watanabe and toriyama and I think if watanabe had free reign it would be really good. Toriyama adds his weird quirk, which is literally the same story as in FF7R:>we need to defy destiny, by doing exactly that what destiny wants us to do, so we can defy it and beat the bad guyWhich is completly nonsensical. In ff13 it was>we will fight the fal'cie, who wants us to defeat it, but we will still do exactly what he wants and we will still somehow defy our destinyin remake it was>we will fight the ghost jannies, so we can defeat sephiroth and save the planet, while the ghost jannies also want sephiroth dead and so we basically help sephiroth and defy destinyOn the other hand 13 lacks many things FF should have and I only realized this once I played the more FF's>there are no npc's, there are no towns>there no minigames>there are no breahter moments for the crew to get better characterization>there are no secrets at all>the ultima weapons are extremly boring to get and there is no real ultima weapon just multiple ones having the same name with different stats and abilities>there are no sidequests, except for hunt missions>instead of learning slowly about the whole lore, they shove it to the fucking datalog, which I never opened ever again, because it's where the tutorials just are>too many samey enemies>In the hindsight the battle system is fun with changing roles, but I also just mashed auto-button and still defeated everything (except maybe long-gui) in the game>pulse is just a huge place of nothingThe game heavily suffered from not having a clear vision and just sitching everything together. I would be heavily interested in a remake,remaster with directors cut version. But as it stands now the best FF protags has really a meh-game. FF13-2 fixes most of the issues with 13, but no Lightning
>>3480042>>we need to defy destiny, by doing exactly that what destiny wants us to do, so we can defy it and beat the bad guyThat's what destiny is, though. The party is optionlocked at the end, it's either "go forward and figure it out while trying to survive" or "die and suffer forever."The theme is about facing one's fate with eyes open and not giving into despair, even when all hope is lost, but you wouldn't know that because you have never experienced true suffering in life and will die alone.
>>3479933>>unlikable main cast except sazh sortaI'm gonna say aside from this you missed that the battle system isn't equipped to handle AOE attacks. Anyway onto that comment.It's a common complaint and I don't usually defend XIII for anything other than a few designs & music but this is one that I do kinda stick up for and it's something the other games in the XIII trilogy were missing, the other two games are a schizophrenic mess but that's Watanabe.XIII itself is extremely unfocused because of the problems with production, setting out to be a game for the FF VII fans and styled around that, however the script was rewritten several times and Nojimas hands are all over it, this leads into some weird spots where characters (although not intended to be explicitly likeable) come off as assholes, snow & hope are massively impacted by this.I don't think your characters need to be likeable, you can make a character an unlikeable asshole, a jerk and it can work but it needs to be in service of something and that's where XIII's characters fall apart, due to the scenario being a mess the characters have all these unlikeable traits with no real redemption or growthcoming down the road and ultimately it serves nothing. Usually a writer will give an unlikeable character a sympathetic trait or backstory to tie into them being the biggest asshole in the world or flawed. So you kinda reserve characters like that with very few positive traits as villains.So I think there's nothing wrong with having the cast all be insufferable cunts but it fails in its execution because FF XIII is as it always has been: A troubled game made to pander to FF VII simps.
>>3479982>AI is never the problem. You use Paradigm Shifts to do what is needed to be done.lmao*whifs an AOE attack*I'm gonna drag Yakuza 7 down here too and slander that game because despite XIII coming out and having this obvious issue Sega went onto put the same shit into their game too. The difference between Sega and SE is that they actually bothered to listen to the feedback players had instead of tripling down trying to make something work.
XIII is great if you enjoy the combat system which is actually relatively deep but if not you’ll probably dislike it. XIII-2 is closer to the other ff games
>>3480059I do understand that, but I do still think it is dumb. It's not like they could just not do it, what then? The Fal'cie turns everyone into a Cieth? Why not trying to figure out a plan. It would even be better, if they had a plan go in fight it and realize it doesn't work and loose. This is not real life, it's a story written by someone and the execution of it was done incredibly bad.>you have never experienced true suffering in life and will die alone.stop projecting anon
>>3480062>FF XIII is as it always has been: A troubled game made to pander to FF VII simps.It was kinda funny, because my first game was ff13 and when I played ff7R for the first time (and first introduction to FF7 in general) I was many times reminded at ff13. Especially how both of the games featured criminals on the run. While ff13 made it that part better, it also made it more boring.
Anyone else think 13 made a mistake not fighting Dysley in human form and then becoming a falcie afterwards?
>>3478588>Videogame "journalists" reviled Japanhttps://youtu.be/RgWyMvfo_p8?t=1971
>>3479615>It's the last true final fantasynope the last final fantasy is IX,and the others after XIII are just part of XIII.>XV extension of XIII real name was XIII something.>XVI extension of XIII was similar to XV>all of them unfinished mess,yes the games aren't finished at all.
>>3480081Not only is it dumb, it's not fun to play even in a symbolic sense.
>>3479985Women were never good judges of tastes so it's safe to say that anon has some sort of Stockholm Syndrome for Himbos.
>>3480084>It was kinda funny, because my first game was ff13 and when I played ff7R for the first time (and first introduction to FF7 in general) I was many times reminded at ff13.Yeah, XIII was intended to be an FF for the fans wanting a VII remake but a bunch of the developers (including Toriyama) eventually got to work on the game and while I may not like VII I think they did a great job with the combat/gameplay and Toriyama finally got to carry out the task he was assigned. I don't care about the story or changes that 7R haters seethe about because I don't like the original anyway but the gameplay/music sure is interesting.Also as much as I dislike XIII & XIII-2 I think Toriyama is actually a talented designer/director. Lightning Returns was a very interesting game and I can see the good in X-2. Aside from joking about his transformation fetish and lust to impregnate Lightning he's a solid guy who was set out an impossible task. XIII started out as a PS2, pushed onto a new engine and new hardware and had revisions to the combat right up to release and it was all to placate rabid fans who wanted a VII remake.Toriyama gets vilified for the XIII trilogy but I think he was one of the best directors SE in the franchise who weren't working on handheld titles. Tabata was making handheld games and cleaning up VXIII to XV but Toriyama put out his impossible mainline entry, improved upon it a little in the sequel to plug the gap and then produced a very unique (if somewhat silly) third entry.That VII remake stuff surrounding XII & XIII is there because SE released that stupid tech demo with the PS3 BEFORE XII released (because of XII's production hell). SE set both games up for failure, XII released in a world where fans knew SE could be open to the possibility of remaking VII at the tail end of a console generation and XIII released to those same fans who wanted VII remake and not what they got.
>>3480222Aren't himbos buff? Tidus is a twink.
>>3480249Ran out of spaceAnd it wasn't just XIII that got screwed either by the delays and crystal tools, XIV 1.0 had to release the next year undercooked.VXIII was MIA, Type-0 was late and so they needed something to plug the gap, so XIII-2 released only a little while after T0. Then again, there was nothing but XIV and ARR/VXIII (XV) in development so they made him pump out a third game on the engine.If you ignore XIV & ARR there was then a 3 year gap between that and what VXIII became and the franchise was burdened with this bloated disaster engine not suitable for an MMO requiring more work with a massive project awaiting release.The whole FNC project was fundamentally screwed and if you're someone who ignores MMO's or online games and didn't like FNC you'd been shit out of luck since 2006-2009, there's even a subset in there who hate XII.It's a shame so many games were dragged down by that engine, the prospect of a VII remake and executive decisions. So I find it truly hard to hate Toriyama for the flawed games.
>>3480081But they did have a plan. The plan was "see what happens because the alternative is eternal agony."Their lives were on a countdown timer. They dick around on Gran Pulse because of their uncertainty, which is for the most part a believable reaction to overwhelming odds and having the deck stacked against you. They couldn't make plans because they had no one on the inside who could help, they were complete outcasts and hated for it.Choosing to return to Cocoon was a representation of the outcast choosing to confront the reality of their condition: they cannot run from it what is literally a brand on the soul, so they have to fight it, or die in the process. And they agreed that fighting and dying is better than just withering away or turning to Cieth, even if it fails, even if everything falls apart.The "miracle" that saves them in the end is literally an act of God meant to reinforce this. God, in witnessing their devotion to the idea of hope against despair, intervenes and thus changes their fate. In other words, faith (if acted upon) can move mountains, which is a very Final Fantasy esque theme, and in no way out of place for the series.As a story about resisting despair, fighting for control of fate against the "impossible," I think it did a great job at capturing the sense of choicelessness and the need to commit to an unknown in spite of fear. They went in blind because there really was no other option. I think if anything the story only fails on Gran Pulse because of gameplay reasons. The sense of urgency dries up because the devs were worried the game was too linear and wanted to pander to the whiney "but muh freedom to hunt monsters for 100 hours" crowd.
>>3480265>Character 1: I dunno, how do YOU wanna save Cocoon?>Character 2: I dunno, how do YOU wanna save Cocoon?>Character 3: I dunno, how do YOU wanna save Cocoon?>Repeat 13 in a nutshell.
>>3479881>Phil Fish, the creator of celebrated indie video game Fez, is notorious for voicing angry, controversial opinions about the state of video games and their development.Looking back on this and articles on PF's melty about the XB1 publishing changes.Outside of TR & IC: A few outlets criticised him, a few gave him the soft kiddy touch gloves leaving out his offensive comments (Polygon) and there's a couple where they regard his prior comments towards the industry as racist (interesting is that Inafune defended the criticism; more interesting when he pushed capcom to move West for dev in the 7th gen) but they all happened at the very end of the 7th gen going into the 8th.It's strange looking back at GG stuff in retrospect, the narrative that people held him up in the clique doesn't really stick since through 2012 & 13 there were people turning on him before he ragequit. It's also weird looking back at Fish himself, all that melting over Fez being a console game and it inevitably released on PC. This stuff was forgotten about for the most part until Yoshida's XVI interviews about the JRPG term.I still think the comments by Bioware are way worse and more damaging than Fish's /v/-venting. It's also interesting that both were made by hypocrites lmao
>>3480249>That VII remake stuff surrounding XII & XIII is there because SE released that stupid tech demo with the PS3 BEFORE XII released (because of XII's production hell).That's less on SE and more on the longstanding tradition of gamers being morons who don't understand the difference between a tech demo and a trailer for an actual upcoming project.
>>3480325It wasn't even the first time Square used an existing Final Fantasy to show what a new console could be capable of. Almost like reusing designs is a serious time saver in that situation.
>>3479951>like you probably didn't like Tidus, you're just weak and emasculatedWhat the fuck are you talking about? Tidus looked like a member of a boysband and acted like a retard. Are those the standards of masculinity now? Or is it just the famed asian masculinity?
>>3480249>toriyama is a talented designer/directori almost peed myself laughing....let's see all he got involved>XII - flopped>XIII - Flopped>XIV - flopped (a million files for a game that had such low quality was too much)>XV - flopped>XVI -flopped>VII remake - floppedi think he is the master of flopping over and over by not listening to the fans and being obsessed with the ethics department.
>>3480249>XIII was intended to be an FF for the fans wanting a VII remakeWho said that? Sauce?
>>3480337see >>3480222
>>3480344???Toriyama didn't work on XII, XIV, XVI or XVI. He was far too busy dedicating his laifu to his waifuHe did work on the XII sequel RW between X-2 & XIII but wasn't sole director, it was a 3 way split like VIIR. He did follow up that work on the KawazuHashimoto/Ivalice alliance project by writing the scenario for the shovelware wiiware title CC my life as a darklord that's worth a punt if you're thinking of suicide and want to go out with some catchy music. He was likely picked for that project from the ill fated also kusoge racing lagoon that's not worth a go if you're looking for a game to suicide to.Toriyama is Kitase's CBU I prodigy from the Bahalagoo team like Nojima.I admit his games have been poorly received by fans but X-2 & LR at least have some semblance of good gameplay fwiw.
As I'm looking through.I'm gonna leave this article here for "others".https://www.vg247.com/where-final-fantasy-went-wrong-and-how-square-enix-is-putting-it-rightAn interesting insight into FNC & XIV.
>>3480370>Who said that? Sauce?It was intended to recapture the success of compilation of VII rather but also pushed into the futuristic setting in VII and you can see that in the design work. Once the tech demo was unleashed they leaned in hard to the advent children style.
>>3480444https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/10/26/square-talks-firsts-for-final-fantasy-xiiNot reading your article. Instead, look at this, straight from the horse's mouth:>XI and onwards were supposed to online gamesThat's it, that's the kill-shot. You don't come back from multiplayer cancer.
>>3480511I'm not surprised that the only FF fans today ARE mmo players (addicts). That's exactly what SE intended, that's exactly what they got. Contraction of the MMO genre is leading to a contraction of FF sales. Again, not surprising.
>>3480062literally every character in ff13 has a complete arc, i have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.
>>3480511>Not reading your article. Instead, look at this, straight from the horse's mouth:Ah yes, famed FF brand mana- sorry. FF II designer, SaGa father and FF XII step in producer when Matsuno had his meltdown and everyone else was busy.Famed Final Fantasy future legend Akitoshi Kawazu.What's the problem, couldn't find any Hashimoto or Kitase quotes?Did you also happen to look up Kawazu's principles on game design? Or did you quit; like intended.
>>3480653First question: shot down.Second question: interviewer mistakes him for someone elseholy moly
>>3480511I did not know about this. Very very grim.
>>3480734Don't worry anon, you can play that fellas latest hit, the magnum opus the game that embodies that online philosophy to the max, no turn based combat or anything, a full live service game. SaGa: Emerald Beyond.It's very predatory!
>>3480759Calm yourself and learn to read you buffoon.
>>3479985>>3479985>>3480222>>3480253You guys are idiots, Snow and Tidus both accept their difficult destinies with a smile, and that's what makes them good masculine role models - not the way they look. It's ironic that you are trying to portray me as having a warped sense of masculinity when your first assumption is that I'm making some kind of comment about these characters' appearances. It's usually women and emasculated men who focus on outward appearances over character traits like bravery and resilience.
You don't get why walking down a hallway for 15 hours is less loved than the golden age of RPGs. If you're not a troll, I just. I just feel awful for you.
>>3480816>Snow and Tidus both accept their difficult destinies with a smile, and that's what makes them good masculine role modelsBut they cry and whine about it! That's not masculine at all! Real men don't cry, real men repress their feelings until they turn into panic anxiety disorders that bubble out in explosive meltdowns following the ingestion of psyilocybin mushrooms.
>>3481116>But they cry and whine about it!I don't remember that part.
>3478588First part is schizo-tier.13 just sucks both narratively and mechanically while also being a slog to playthrough. 13fags are delusional for defending this mess of a game.
>>3481136You mean their entire story arcs? You don't remember Tidus crying about his dad, whining about being stuck in another world, shrieking hysterically when he discover's the meaning of Yuna's pilgrimage, screaming at Auron like a petulant brat? Or Snow's blowhard pretend hero facade that crumbles and gives way to him begging for forgiveness and feeling sorry for himself?I mean I'm playing contrarian here and was being sarcastic with the whole repress emotions thing. I agree that they are ultimately good masculine role models because they overcome their crises and move forward rather than wallowing in the end, but they are also crybabies who do definitely have their hysterics.
>but they are also crybabies who do definitely have their hystericsThe irony of this anon. kek
>>3481146>You don't remember Tidus crying about his dad, whining about being stuck in another world, shrieking hysterically when he discover's the meaning of Yuna's pilgrimage, screaming at Auron like a petulant brat? Or Snow's blowhard pretend hero facade that crumbles and gives way to him begging for forgiveness and feeling sorry for himself?Snow falters one time, and it's when Barthandelus is lying to them.Tidus is younger, and struggles more.But both are shown to ultimately overcome their anxiety and face their challenges bravely.Young male gamers need to see more of that.
The core of 13's story is showing you how the main characters come to question the truths they used to believe in and how it changes them over the course of the game. It's what you're supposed to care about, it's where the stakes are, it's all you get to see. But it sucks, the character writing is ass and entirely unconvincing, characters will suddenly have these dramatic breakdowns or epiphanies mainly because the devs need to space them out somewhat evenly because there are no interesting world-based plot events to serve as high points between all the walking. XIII wants to be this super melodramatic rollercoaster of emotions but never earns it. And you'd think it'd be an ensemble story but really Vanille is the de facto protagonist and a lot of people ended up being confused because the marketing pushed Lightning so much.Also the gameplay is pure combat but the combat isn't good enough to carry the game alone.
>>3480816Your outward appearance and the way you carry yourself is a reflection of your interior state of being. If you look like and act like a fag, you are a fag.
Lotta little faggots coming out of the woodworks the past couple of years trying to defend XIII because the babies who played it and didn't know any better are now old enough to shitpost on 4chinYou were groomed to accept garbage from the crib, that doesn't make it not garbage.
Good game for people who hate video games (me)
>>3481844Yes, it is another Final Fantasy for Artists like VII, VIII and X. One of the better ones for this very reason too.
So many ass blasted balding Gen X and Y niggers in here who got all their opinions on what a real man’s game should be from G4 and IGN.
>>3481878I know, it's kind of embarrassing. Gen X and Y care so much about what a video game should be rather than what a video game is. They're so passionate about retard objectivity that they have lost touch with the actual creative process, the unorthodox and often avant-garde nature that is video game creation that when a game doesn't fit into one of their safe little classifications they have a retard shitfling. They care not for essence and meaning but often only for nostalgia and gameplay sigh.
>>3478588Bingo. I'll also say gen X are the least artistically minded generation to ever exist which extends to their tastes.
>>3481773QED, faggot.>>3481883>>3481887I wouldn't want to endorse the binary art game/gameplay game because it's the one FF13's detractors rely on for their argument. Ironic, though, because the game's technical combat filtered them. You still see people complaining about stagger gauges to this day.
>Samefag can't say why the game's good>Just ad homs and screaming "filtered" like a Zoomer13fags, everyone.
>>3482098Damn filtered hard, not giving yous is the biggest sign of butthurt (ironic)
>>3481793i played every ff growing up and 13 is one of my favorites (i got platinum on it).
>13 is one of my favorites (i got platinum on it)Sorry for your loss and wasted time.
>>3482098>>3482248You nailed it little bro. I'm sure they'll stop enjoying the game now. How's your latest playthrough of FF2 going?
Insecure 13fag post above my post.
>>3481793In a decade you will have hordes of retards explaining to you how actualy gacha games were SOVL and maybe even EVROPA.
It's the Gundam SEED of Final Fantasy.
I remember someone telling me about Low to No Crysterium runs might give me a better appreciation of the game's combat, but looking at most vids. it doesn't come off any different or challenging than if you were to do battles regularly, level up and use ATB Refresh, which I and my friends discovered around the game's release long before the term of coined. There also seems to be a lot of grinding for materials offscreen when leveling up certain weapons and accessories. If anything, all I've learned from watching these challenge runs is the game has you engage using summons more for big "fuck you!" damage, since a lot of posts I've read throughout the years as well as opinions I've listened to from my friends saying they found that they're more time consuming breaking the pace of battle on top of useless in the grand scheme of things. That's a lot of time spent just to play the game with restrictions with little payoff other than to say "it's possible to do".
>>3482248>too scared to directly replyall gaming is a waste of time sis.
>>3482608It's particularly egregious in 13. The amount if grinding needed to max out all the characters role trees or hallways I should say is awful.
>>3478460it's boring and the story sucks. The only good thing about FF13 is Yanille.
>>3478460>What did you think of FF13?As a 15 year old in 2011, I thought it was a solid game as my first taste of Final Fantasy though I felt it was a tad cheesy in places writing wise and the plot could've been explained better instead of largely being relegated to datalogs. Now as a more cynical 28 year old in 2024 who's since played a couple of the other FF games along with more RPG titles, I'm sure I'd dip out before making it to Gran Pulse
>>3485112>>3485900Because that was worth the bump.
>>3478460It's easily the most underrated of all Final Fantasy games. Far better than X and XII and VII in any case with a wonderful story and gameplay. Remake could have learned a thing or two from it honestly. That piece of shit bored me to tears.
>>3485902Yeah it was, you seething little faggot. Kill yourself.
>>3478544>body sculpting modIts a nude mod isn't it?
>>3478460based game
Its a shitty version of a series that stopped being good a decade beforehand with a hyper-linear version of gameplay for a series that was already fairly linear all so one faggot exec could have the wifu he drew in higher school in a game with FF7 derivitive characters when FF8n was already overrated babahs first RPG crap
>>3479951> You need to get good. This game very consistently delivers skill - not stat, skill - checks.And this is an example of why this was a shit game.Imagine transitioning from Tactics to FFXIII. Think of all of the possible ways you can progress through FFT… And this game? “You need to get good”Excuse me motherfucker, no, I think this is a shitty game. I have decades of experience with a wide variety of RPGs, and I find the gameplay of this game to be extremely unpleasant.“You need to understand the paradigms and make use of all of them blah blah blah”Nigga, if I was good at literally every single game in the series other than this one, maybe the problem is shitty game design.
>>3480076This is why it’s a shitty game.My first Final Fantasy game was Tactics. I thought they would all be like that. No Final Fantasy game comes even close to being 10% as enjoyable as Tactics, in terms of gameplay. The gameplay of all Final Fantasy games is boring as fuck.But this is the first one to *directly insult me*. I didn’t use paradigms exactly as the developer intended for me to, and now you’re giving me a poor star rating?Other Final Fantasy games had boring gameplay, but this is the first game to directly insult me.When I hear people with their “get good” rhetoric, I feel quite insulted. No, I am not autistic. Dungeons and Dragons doesn’t tell you to “get good”. Talisman doesn’t tell you to “get good”. Shoots and Ladders doesn’t tell you to “get good”. When I play a 4X game, I play on the difficulty level most appropriate to my playstyle and skill level. The goal is not to be the best at being autistic, the goal is to have fun.You would have to pay me to play this game.
