Interesting. So FF8's Trabia Garden was just Xenogear's Shevat/Snowfield Hideout.
>>3532451And the Chu-chus were moombas.
>>3532451This is actually not interesting. These patterns speak to nothing.
>>3532462That's exactly what makes it interesting. In the beginning of Xenogears, Fei finds the music box in Citan's workshop. Fei insists the music makes him feel funny. They proceed to have this conversation about how music makes people remember things. Fei is established to have amnesia. So this scene would have us believe the music is connected to his past. It's more than music, there's also a snow weather effect. Where did the music box come from? Citan says it was salvaged from the ocean. BUT we see the same statue marking the entrance to the Shevat Palace. Which doesn't fall into the snowfields until later in the game.
>>3532481
>>3532485>>3532481Shut up.
>>3532451unsubscribe
>>3532451i will never understand the autistic mind. your brains make so much effort to find connections between things where no such connection exists.
>>3532481Why is the music box also an Ice box? Well, it's revealed later in the game that [Carbonite Freezing] is a thing. So this statue had the narrative potential to not be a statue at all.See, later in the game Citan is talking to Queen Zephyr about the history of Shevat. How 500 years ago they split off from Solaris as an independent nation. Solaris accepted this on the condition that they don't support the Nissan rebels that have rallied together under the Sophia. Solaris sent the Merkaba to destroy Nissan but Sophia kamikazied it with the starship Excalibur. Materials say the Excalibur was a Shevat ship, but it's actually an excavated vessel that was part of the Eldridge that crashed on the planet. Of course Zephyr assumed Sophia died in the attack. But surely a sophisticated starship would logically have autopilot, and Sophia could have easily ejected in an escape pod and survived as a carbonite freeze statue to be salvaged.
>>3532511>Initiating quick-thaw. It's gonna feel a bit itchy.
>>3532481That's exactly what makes it uninteresting. Analysis with no conclusion, just repetitive observation, is shadow play. You bring nothing to the plate, AI-kun.
In Star Wars, the Carbonite Freezing process was intended for transporting "Tibanna Gas", a fuel source, which is "mined" in Cloud City on the Gas Planet of Bespin. In Xenogears, it's never explained what function Shevat served to Solaris. However it is evident they had Carbonite Freezing facilities while Solaris does not. Because Solaris - or rather, the Grazel Ministry - also wanted Shevat to freeze Miang aka "Mother" to keep her out of their business of ruling over the surface "Lambs". We can't talk about Xenogears without talking about FF7, because it was initially pitched as the same project. I'll point out that "Shevat" is phonetically similar to "Shiva". It's revealed in FF7 Remake that the entire Glacier Region was frozen by Shiva to "staunch the planet's wound" but we can take this to mean Jenova aka "Mother". In FF Type-0 there is the ice-attribute nation of Concordia. The Queen, as a the Azure Crystal's L'cie has a special ability to "predict the future". But in light of "The spiral" this could also just be memory of previous cycles.The Queen is assassinated by a sniper. As she knew she would be, as it was apparently her "Focus" to die. This is reminiscent of Edea in FF8, who also had Ice-powers and was involved in a sniper assassination attempt.
>>3532585Concordia has an interesting relationship with dragons as well. They're essentially dragoons. But woman hold all the authority because the men have this Dracobaltian curse. Before the Azure Dragon Crystal existed their was the Blue Dragon Crystal. (Water -> Ice). It gave people the power to command monsters, dragons included. But Dracobaltians did not honor their beasts. If they weren't killed in battle they would be killed for food. So when the light of the Blue Crystal faded and replaced with the Azure Crystal, the male Dracobaltians were confined to the Cursemire of Naraku to become beasts themselves. It's fairly common FF lore that Tonberries to be mutated humans - or a human-like race. There's even an Innsmouth in the eastern region, an allusion to Lovecraft's "A Shadow over Innsmouth". In FF8, that mutant race appears to be the Shumi-Tribe. Similar to the "Wels" of Xenogears. Which the Solarians also "recycle" in their Onions System for food. Additionally NORG has the Leviathan G.F. You can also see that the Concordias have a fashion sense similar to Esthar.
>>3532628There isn't much written about Trabia's history, but we can infer that they split off from Esthar at some point. It's also said that when Trabia went to war all their citizens were conscripted.But Trabia's capital was never added to the game. So we don't know if the "citizens" included the Shumi-Tribe or not. At the very least Moombas are used as worker/slaves. There are hints of what Trabia could have been in World of Final Fantasy's Saronia. Saronia is a kingdom from FF3 with a history of Dragoons as well. And in WoFF the Thane of Saronia is revealed to be a Bahamutian Solider that can command mirages (monsters) the way the protagonists do. "Thane" is an interesting word choice because we also see it used in FF16, to refer to the Northern Territories that Jill "Shiva" comes from. But all we see are the women-folk that were taken hostage by the Iron blood.
>>3532644I can't get over it. You recognize Jill's kin by their fur coats. But they've been hostages in a sweltering volcanic island for over 10 years. They shouldn't be wearing furs at all!
>>3532650The demihumans in Chrono Cross are an off-shoot of the Draconians, who evolved from the Reptites in Chrono Trigger. I guess their different elemental affinities is suppose to explain their appearance as anything other than reptilian. In Xenogears, the demihumans are the result of genetic manipulation. But they don't really explain how that works. Are they grown in labs, or do women just randomly pop out dolphin-babies?
>>3532451Great, great... But WHERE IS YOUR ACTUAL EVIDENCE FOR THIS!?
>>3532687Evidence for what?
>>3532874That these concepts exist and were designed to fit a specification. In FF8, Zell joined SeeD to be like his grandfather. But what was his grandfather? Because the Gardens and SeeD were only created 10 years ago. What was the basis for Zell's character? What were the writers thinking? There's a number of odd lines pointing to concepts that were never established. The White SeeDs mention their salute hasn't changed since they were founded; implying SeeD has been around for multiple generations. But there's no evidence to support that and even contradicts the ending where Edea in the past has never heard of SeeD or their mission. So, what were the writers thinking? You've probably heard it a million times already but Edea was originally created for FF7 and presumably has a equivalent in Xenogears as well. Along with Fujin and Raijin. Zell's "grandfather" was probably imagined to be Zangan from FF7. Who looks like an old Sabin from FF6. Edea's orphanage is probably loosely based on Terra's orphanage at the end of FF6, meaning Edea's sorceress powers were a translation of half-esper powers as the project split off into it's own world, and the narrative scaffolding that supported it fell away. Edea was cut from FF7, as were Fujin and Raijin, but we know from developer interviews that before "Jenova" was SPACE AIDS it was a dormant part of the brain that gives people psychic powers, and Edea could awaken that power. There were a number of characters with psychic powers in Xenogears. Namely, Citan's daughter, Midori Uziki, who could read Fei's mind while he was in frozen in carbonite. It's revealed in Perfect Works that she could also sense Citan's "connection" with Emperor Cain.
>>3532915Midori's grandfather was the Shevat Sage, Gaspar Uzuki. He's main contribution in the story is the removal of "limiters" engineered by the Gazel Ministry. His life, along with Queen Zephyr has been extended by nanotechnology. So they know what humans are capable of without limiters. This suggests that Queen Zephyr is Edea's equivalent.Both FF7 and FF8 had "Limit Breakers" but no in-world explanation for them. Obviously, Edea was controlled by Ultimecia for most of the game. Myyah could just be Edea's equivalent as well. In Xenogears, all females on the planet have the genetic "factor" to hosts the Miang/Myyah/Mother consciousness. Zephyr included. The saving grace is that Myyah doesn't choose her successor upon death. Any why the Gazel Ministry wanted her frozen in carbonite. This tells us that ministry were aware of this "factor" that all women had. And with genetic limiters, you'd think they also be able to remove or suppress that factor. After all Zephyr had her life extended for hundreds of years, so either she lucked out - or the nanotech did something to protect her.
>>3532933Aside from her political position, the game tells us that Zephyr had a younger brother. Presuming he grew up and sired a family, Zephyr would be a great great great...aunt to a number of people after 500 years.
I think it's also implied that Zephyr has never left Shevat in 500 years. I can't help but notice it's a similar set up in Ar Tonelico's Tastiella, the leader of the Teru tribe, which is also responsible guarding that game's antagonist, Mir. It's completely unrelated to Square Soft games. But it's probably an emergent property of meeting narrative criteria. Why a woman? Why long lived? Why confined to the virtual bottleneck that would be a flood gate?
>>3533014Why not retire? Why sit in a position of authority for centuries and change nothing. It's story convenience. A personal testimony and eyewitness to history is better than getting information from any self-respecting library. It's better when the history book is a relative who can not only explain the way things are that they are, but maintained the status quo. Keeping Zephyr as queen means Shevat's history has a reason to be consistent and simple. Assuming there is a story to tell. In Yzma's case, they originally wrote her as seeking eternal life and beauty by performing animal sacrifices - which was too dark for a Disney movie. That's the other thing. Sometimes it not about the internal logic of a story and it's setting, but meeting studio/publisher's standards.
>this threadXenogears a shit. All hail Phantasy Star.
Why have I never seen an ff8 thread that didn't look like a mentally ill fan wiki
>>3533210Phantasy Star went to shit though
>>3532451No, shut the fuck up.
>>3533214The faggot needs to be ranged banned. 90% of these threads are him blogposting with no one responding. Probably laundering shit for twitter repost.
In FF8 "Garden" is a military academy that trains "SeeD" candidates. In Xenogears "Jugend" is a military academy that trains "Gebler" candidates. But we never actually see Jugend in the game even though a number of characters received an education there. The symbol for Gebler (meant to be Gevurah or Geburah) is this 3 ring simple representing Fire, Earth, and Water. Where is wind you ask? Good Question! It's likely Shevata. Ran by Queen Zephyr - who is named after wind.
>>3533345Meaning there were likely 3 other facilities or Mobile Forts. We do end up fighting these in Disc 2, it's just never explained where they came from.
Indeed Xenogear's world map is divided into 4 regions. Ignis(fire), Aquvy(water), Terrane(Earth), and Elru(Wind) - which also happens to be were Shevat hooves over before crashing into the southern snowfields. We know Ignis had Fort Jasper. Fort Hurricane comes out of nowhere and isn't explained in Perfect Works either. But that reasonably accounts for Fire, Water, and Wind, leaving Jugend as the "Earth" fort.
>>3532644Have you ever noticed Trabia garden looks like a vagina with large labia?
>>3533320But will always be better than Takahashis shitty homage to Macross, Gundam, Yamato and just about every other Jap sci if.4rpp
>>3533369There's also the Merkava. It was destroyed by Sophia with the Excalibur, but was rebuilt at some point by Karellen.Seeing how the name Merkabah translates to "cart". I'm thinking it was intended to be a combination of 4 "wheel" forts. Or at least 3 forts, since Shevat stayed out of the battle between the original Merkava and the Excalibur. We know from developer interviews that the Gardens in FF8 had early plans to combine into a giant mecha. But there were no giant kaiju to fight like the WEAPONS in FF7. In Chrono Cross you have Fort Dragonia occupied by the Acacia Dragoons whose emblem was a Chimera. Lion, Viper, and Eagle. 3 bodies in 1. They were mainly dealing with the Porre Army who were manufacturing giant robots. There was also Terra Tower, another "mobile" fortress created by the Reptites. This leads to a narrative dead end once you get to the frozen flame. But I think it was a narrative pretense leading up to Porre Mecha fighting Reptite/Dragon Kaiju. Terra Tower = Lunatic Pandora. We never find out who this "prisoner" is that speaks to the party once they enter.
Tl;dr, Xeno was about 5 different games before becoming the shitshow finished in ‘98.jrpk
>>3533382>shitty homageIt's not shitty though, it's cool as fuck and it's interesting seeing the merging of various mecha series into Takahashi dream sci-fi world.
>>3533482This is pure kino
>>3533531They never get into the conflict with the other civ in Ingas sadly.
Does this mean Adel has a story equivalent in gears or cross too?
>>3534214Shut the fuck up and stop bumping this thread.
Chrono Cross is a better game than Xenogears
>>3534218
>>3534248Adel and Id aren't exactly story equivalents.But the part where Seifer grabs Rinoa to fuse with Adel into an absolute being is easily a page out of the Xenogears script. Like it wasn't really meant to be Seifer; it was Zephyr. It wasn't really Rinoa and Adel, it was Elly and Myyah. The wormy sorceress you fight during time compression is "Urobolus" FF8 has "Junctioning". Xenogears had "Spirit Fusion" which were vague experiments using Psychics and Demihumans to "awaken" Fei when he was a boy Id was a result of the "fusion" but they never tell what she was fusing him with. Ultimately, she intended to fuse Fei with Grahf. I think this is a Macross reference. Perhaps the demihumans were like protodevilns that had no spirit energy of their own. Like how Faefolk, such as mermaids, don't have souls. Humans that are drained of their spiritual energy become unmotivated or fall into a coma, but they can regenerate their spirit by listening to music. Eventually the protodevilns gain the ability to generate their own spirit thanks to the rock star Nikki. Music is also a key part in Chrono Cross' plot with it's Demihumans (specifically mermaids and werepanthers) and music star also named Nikki. I've rambled about this before, but the Coeurl is a black cat alien that drains "Id" from people. From the scifi novel "The Black Destroyer".
>>3534226Both are good >>3534218Bump for being a non-Falcom thread
>>3534465FF7 has Genesis - designed off of Gackt IRL, his motivations in the story are equally nebulous as well.
And Kaldea in The Bouncer, who's panther-morph is also the result of "experiments".
The missing link here is that FF8 didn't have demihumans. I think the grating parts of the narrative, Rinoa's unexplained coma and self-awareness as a sorceress, could be explained as her being something other than a sorceress in another draft. Suppose she was a demihuman/bionoid that lacked her own spiritual essence. Perhaps engineered by Galbadia to drain Sorceresses of their power. It fits thematically with her being literally dependant on others, in contrast to Squall and his winged lion motif and self-sufficiency.
So, where does space fit in? Oh, and mecha too?
I missed a FFVIII schizo thread for 4 days? Whaaaat
>>3535132It is explained in Perfect Works that there's supposed to be a galaxy wide federation or something. All the game really says is that "Deus" was an interplanetary invasion system. Prefect Works also claims that humans don't fully understand the technology behind Deus. Another Macross reference - it's origins is either alien or ancient/forgotten. I don't know if it's ever explain why in the 11,000+ history of the planet - this space federation never came to investigate. It's just common sense, if you lose a nuke you go find it. We don't see a galaxy spanning civilization until Xenosaga. But at the center of everything, both religion and science, is Wilhelm also know as Lord Heinlein. "Hein" or "Hyne" is a mythical creator of mankind in FF8. The implication is that there is a Kadomony system that might have created life on the planet.Or at the very least, it's all derived from the same premise of a starship crashing into the planet. They excavate the Lunatic Pandora from the Centra crater. But Dr.Odine mentions "servicing" it. As if it was more than just a chunk of crystal. In Xenogears there is a salvage ship, the Thames, excavating ancient relics from the sea floor. FF8 has the deep sea research facility, inspecting the sea floor looking for "energy sources". What they find is Ultimate Weapon.
>>3535261So, you are a prescriber to the all things tie together with Square?
>>3535277You think any of this is for you?
>>3532455i somewhat had a dream last night of a rom hack with laguna, kiros, ward, seifer, fuijin, and raijin being in the team fighting Ultimecia. Laguna went out of character though.
>>3532915>Edea was cut from FF7, as were Fujin and Raijin, but we know from developer interviews that before "Jenova" was SPACE AIDS it was a dormant part of the brain that gives people psychic powers, and Edea could awaken that power.I assume Edea would have been located at the snow hamlet that would awaken Jenova's powers? do we have an archive of all these schizo threads? it's been going on for years like the FFIX and Chrono Cross connection.
speaking of chrono cross, what do you think became of melchoir?
>>3535298The developer interviews only vaguely mention "a forest". Could have been the sleeping forest. the Ancient forest. Corel forest. Gongaga. The city of Calm was originally "Elm".Who knows?In Xenogears however, one of the wisemen, Melchior, lived alone in a forest. He's another Shevat sage that specializes in nanotechnology. Although he's some kind of blue-skin demihuman. He might have had a connection the the Gazel Ministry at some point. When people started turning into wels he tried to help fix them. The Melchior in Chrono Trigger was the Guru of Life. So he created demi humans like Masa & Mune which show up a sidequest with Dario on the forbidden island cabin. Melchior doesn't appear in CC, but if he did, he might be the reason Nikki and Marcy look human despite being demihuman. He might have also been on the mainland which the game never got to. But there were a lot of character with connections to it. As well as characters with no backstory - such as Zoah. If you take Nikki's Viper Manor route, you sneak in through Shadow forest where you encounter Zoah - for no reason. Lisa's dad is also there, he gets turned into a mushroom man after eating a Guardia mushroom that was growing...not in guardia. What's it doing there? IIRC there is a dummied out boss in the shadow forest that would have had the same element "song of life" mechanic used to defeat the time devourer. It was never finished. Or perhaps it got revised, where Nikki would have learned the song from Melchior as well as the fact that sister was with the other wiseman Balthasar.
>>3535281No, Xenogears a shit.
>>3535452Xenogears a kino
xenogears should get the HD2D remake
you think Tata and Crono are related
>>3535762>a filmBasically, yeah.
So where does Big Joe fit in all this?
>>3535915A more interesting story than this pile of shit, that’s for sure.
One achievement left to go.Is it better to battle Omega with low level or high level? Or should I just cheese with Selphie's The End?
>>3535915Over there.
Why do people on /v/ hate xenogears so much?
>>3541267Its mostly one dude who we used to call the Xenoshitter. Iirc, he went so far as to even buy a fucking ad. Later on, he quit posting for a time, someone then mention he died due to the coof, but others seem to have picked up the cause.
>>3541267>>3541950>And then there's this guy
>>3532451Roni Fatima, founder of Aveh = Edgar Roni Figaro, ruler of FigaroRene Fatima = Sabin Rene Figaro. Roni's little brother. More brawn than brainDesert Kingdom of Aveh = Castle Figaro at the Desert.Submerging castle Figaro = Yggdrasil Sand submarine.
is there a single person on earth who has done more damage to square enix's image than the ff8 schizo
>>3543665Yes! Yes! In WoFF, Figaro Castle's Underground Prison is blended with FF8's D-Prison which is also submersible in sand. The Fatima family have a special blue eye retina pattern that is the key to unlocking the Omnigear in Fort Jasper. *Bangs head on desk*Ok. So at the beginning of the game Bart's cousin Margie is kidnapped because they're after a "Fatima Jasper". It's suppose to be a royal family secret thing. Everyone assumes it's a jewel. They don't know it's the eyes. I don't think Fort Jasper was even named that early in the story. AND Bart and Margie are under a special "hypnosis" that's blocking their memories; clarified in Perfect Works because it's kind of a plot hole that they had exclusive accesses to an Omnigear and didn't think to use it sooner because ~Amnesia~I think Rinoa and Irvine's concepts are rooted in Bart and Margie. Granted Irvine and Cid were conceptually the same character at one point. Shortly after the Prison Escape, Cid gives Squall a key to the MD Level. It's not explained how Cid knows -but doesn't know- the Garden is mobile. It's possible Galbadia Garden was suppose to be mobile first. Perhaps Rinoa and/or Irvine were keys to that.Rinoa's mother wrote "Eyes on You". So I can see her father creating some kind of Retinal Scan. In Chrono Cross, instead of Gardens, it's the Sea of Eden. Basically, Serge is recognized by the system because he was there when the power blinked on and off again. However it's interesting that Serge's mother is also named Marge. So, like the Fatimas, there's a theory that Serge might actually be related to the Chronopolis researchers that got trapped in the past.
>>3532451Lucca winds up in the Xenogears universe, likely after the orphanage burns down and she is assumed dead>>3543808serge and everyone else not from the mainland (kid, guile/magil, norris, etc.) are directly descended from the people in the chronopolis incident. its not a theory.
>>3533210the only good phantasy star was 3, and everyone shits on it. it was so far ahead of its time its rifdiculous >multiple waifus>different evolving storylines and generations based on player choice>best story >the actual end of the series and fibnal victory against space satan
>>3543883The only character with confirmed Chronopolis parents is Leah. Although the wiki has a completely different theory, saying she's supposed to grow up to be Ayla's mother and she must have slipped through a time game. I think that theory is based on Leah's Gemstone that's supposed to be passed down and become Kid's Pendent. And Leah's Father (Darth Vader?) was implied to be from the "Sky", The Kingdom of Zeal. (Skywalker?)
>>3544101When you enter Terra Tower a disembodied voice starts talking to Serge, explaining what the tower is. It's was discovered by dataminers that the text is labeled "prisoner"We don't know who it is beyond that. But it could be Leah's Father, frozen in carbonite or something. But having knowledge of Serge's name is another question. Because any Chronopolis researchers trapped in the past shouldn't know who Serge is - who is the reason they are trapped in the past. It could also be some figment of the Fate Supercomputer. Where FATE sealed the dragon gods. In an alternate timeline, perhaps the dragon gods sealed FATE. The Dragon God is divided into 8 elemental dragons. We can imagine FATE as being divided into clotho lachesis and atropos. Although in another timeline it could be something else like Mother Brain, the Mammon Machine, or even Queen Zeal (who was fought as a floating face in Chrono Trigger)
>>3544394And in FF6 you have the Warring Triad statues. Once Kefka stole their power you shift to the "World of Ruin" where dragons are unleashed. While they're not a supercomputer. The pattern is still there. Possibly the original template.
>>3544400So you beat Chrono Cross. And it starts talking gibberish about a sea of "Zurvan" which happens to the name of one of the Warring Triad.
>>3544423But it's also an obscure reference to Radical Dreamers which most people haven't played.
>>3544424Radical Dreamers is basically a choose your own adventure Visual Novel that follows Serge, Kid, and Gil (Guile) breaking into Viper Manor, just like in Chrono Cross. One of the more prominent elements that wasn't adapted into CC was the mirror spirit. If you ask the mirror about itself, it'll explain it was created in the "Realm of the Looking Glass" which is like a layer of reality containing "the objective contents of thoughts" Which I think is just a fancy way of saying "Wonderland" or "Dreamland". The spirit manifests in the reflection of a Venus statue. Mentioning that there used to be another spirit, but now it's lonely. Venus being Goddess of Love; we could speculate that the "Other" spirit was Hate. Relating to the Tears of Love & Hate that combine into the Chrono Cross. Zurvan in the Final Fantasy series is more akin to Aries, god of war. But like I said, there is no Mirror spirit/Venus Statue in CC. However, there is Riddle. Who they use to make their escape from the manor. In the Gibberish Epilogue, Riddle randomly interrupts with a "Thank you for another memory of Dario". Dario was the one possessed by Masamune. I'm guessing the general idea was this:Riddle = VenusDario = AriesKarsh = Hephaestus
>>3544423>see name of a god>immediately think about an unrelated fucking video gameZurvan is Zurvan Akarana, the late Zoroastrian personification of endless time (as opposed to bounded time, the material world).Zorastrianism was harshly dualist, positing that Ahura Mazda/Ohrmazd, the titan of wisdom, and Angra Mainyu/Ahriman, the evil spirit, were two completely separate creations who were in competition and not related, and both eternally existed. This posed a problem for later "systemic" philosophers (i.e. semi-heretic monks) who wanted a rigorous account of creation that explained why two disparate Principles existed. The answer they settled upon was Zurvan. Zurvan was the progenitor of both, a universal sacrificial-priest who offered himself to himself to beget a son, Ohrmazd. However, in doing this, his intention (Orhmazd) and his doubt (Az) both manifested, and Az, a demoness, birthed Ahriman. Other than that, Zurvan is a deus otosios, an inactive god who despite being the "highest power level"/in the foremost position chronologically, does nothing. It is Ohrmazd who, in concert with the pre-existing souls of mans, fashions the trap that is the material world to catch and ultimately kill the Spirit of Evil.What "Sea of Zurvan" means in Chrono Cross is the sea of undifferentiated Time. Interestingly not surprisingly the same term "Sea of Zurvan" is used in Another Eden's main plot, as the game is just Chrono Break with the numbers filed off.
>>3544531If I had a dime for every game people claimed to Chrono Break's incarnation.
>>3544579AE is written and produced by Masato Kato and the music is produced by Mitsuda. It is the closest we will ever get unless they commit offbrand suicide by FuRyu.
>>3544583Masato Kato made Another EdenTakashi Tokita made Final Fantasy Dimensions II They're both recycled from Chrono Break. Dimensions II has a lot of callbacks to the original FF timeloop and the 4 fiends. As well as a connection to FF13-2's time travel story with "Chaos Bahamut" AND Valhalla containing a "prisoner" - which is only vaguely mentioned in a fragment description.Which is to say that ANY story about time "breaking" is going to have similar story beats and points of interest. Such as an "Eden/Paradise" pulled through time. Or that the thing that broke time was civilization drawing energy from across time rather than nature. But Takashi has said that the 3 main heroes in Dimension II are more or less what Chrono Breaks protagonists should have been.
>>3535261>I don't know if it's ever explain why in the 11,000+ history of the planet - this space federation never came to investigate. It's just common sense, if you lose a nuke you go find it.Maybe that's what VI would have been about?
>>3548190>11,000 yearsAnon, they are long dead and gone. PW states it was a galactic conflict. If the Eldridge was anything other than a carrier for Deus, it was a refugee ship.
>>3548979If they aren't looking for the people they'd come looking for the weapon.
>>3552468Not if they were trying to be rid of it. There is an argument that the crew of the Eldridge stole the Zohar and were trying to escape with it. If 'Saga holds any weight, the GF, thus, the civilization that it composed needed it for something or would not survive.
>>3544101Leah is from 65,000,000 BC and her mother being 'in the sky' is a childish misunderstanding of death. Shes one of the few that arent ultimately descended from Chronopolis. Every native to the islands is a descendant of the Chronopolis researchers that got trapped there 10k years ago. They make it very obvious in game not really sure how people keep getting filtered by Cross the plot is pretty simple
>>3532451>massive turd game is shelvednothing impressive
>>3556247the absolute state of /vrpg/
>>3556247Based, thread ends here.
Obviously Xenosaga is the "spiritual successor" of Xenogears. We're told during the Zeboim Era, Myyah awoke in twin sisters that had a psychic link. The game didn't seem to go anywhere with this. During the Zeboim Era, human lifespans were really short, like 30 years. >>3535915This is where Big Joe comes in. He was cryogenically frozen from the Zeboim Era because he was turning 30 soon. The same era when Kim created Emeralda, under Myyah's sponsorship. But the game is kind of vague about Myyah's interest in Kim's research. Ultimately Kim sealed himself away with Emeralda under the sea. But I think the take away for Myyah was longer lifespans via nanotech. But potentially she could have gained the ability to body jump at will I think Emeralda's equivalent in Xenogears is Momo. Realians are basically nanobot colonies like Emeralda. Momo was created as a proxy body for Sakura. I believe Kim was originally creating Emeralda as a means of transferring consciousness. Modeling her after a girl that died during a power-outage at a hospital. I think Ellone in FF8 is also Emeralda's equivalent. At the very least she had an ability to transfer consciousness. And we never saw the Junction Machine Ellone. I think, because Ellone was the Machine herself. The game didn't connect Ellone to the Lunatic Pandora. But go with me here, I think Ellone was meant to be sealed in the Lunatic Pandora the same way Emeralda was sealed in Xenogears. I think Laguna was suppose to find her in the Pandora, before going to Winhil.
>>3552468>>3552569So what would VI have been about?
>>3552569If Saga tells us anything about what the galaxy spanning prehistory Gears had, it's that the conflicts revolved around the Life Recycling Act. In Saga, we mainly see this with Ziggy. But it's very misleading. Ziggy as a human, died, but was revived as a cyborg because he was a registered donor. On the surface he's just a human corpse turned into a weapon. But there could be more to it than that. There were also Life Recycling Variants. Clones, "Designer Children", and super soldiers. All stripped of their human rights for one reason or another. U.R.T.V.s like Jr. are all designer children. Mary and Shelley had cranial nerve implants to communicate telepathically. They're named after Mary Shelley who wrote Frankenstein. But I don't think it's clarified if they were like Ziggy, resurrected cyborgs. There's a lot of political intrigue and legal grey areas. Frankenstein's monster wasn't made up of 1 corpse, you know. So Mary and Shelley might have been exploited in a some kind of legal loophole. As if to say, they don't have rights as individuals because categorically they're not "individuals" while possessing this mental link. The human rights issue was kind of way in the background of both Gears and Saga. But the idea is that humans have genetically modified, and cybernetically enhanced themselves to the point of fragility. That is to say, there was an unspoken caste system and "utility of genes" reinforcing unnatural selection. Taken to body horror extremes, you can imagine scientists are just cripples or brains in jars. And Soldiers were just headless, dickless, meat bags grown in labs. And nobody needed to reproduce the normal way as a species to adapt naturally to their environments. Because they had the freedom to move to a new hospitable planets. Until those ran out.
>>3556543Mother. Miang. Myyah. Body Jumping.
>>3557128Ziggy's Nemesis was "Voyager" who had discovered a way to body jump. We see him as the Blue Testament, iirc. But his story wasn't really told in the main trilogy. Instead it was in "Pied Piper" I believe. In any case. There were a lot of scenes between Ziggy and Julia to the tune of soft loving and caring music. But these are all red flags to me. Fake outs. False character development that makes it seem like she's grown fond of Momo. But the fact is, Sakura is dead. Momo is kidnapped by Ormus. Julia still "hires" Ziggy to retrieve Momo. Momo obviously had some kind of value to her that wasn't sentimental.
I'm fairly certain Commander Cherenkov is Saga's incarnation of Ramsus. They are both test tube babies created for a purpose but became obsolete. Cherenkov was part of a super soldier program. You can imagine it bruised his ego, A LOT, that his wife didn't want a baby with his "Superior Genetics". She just used him and his connection to get herself cloned.
>>3557234In Xenogears Ramsus was created as an imitation "Contact", but they abandoned him because "Myyah" awoke in Karren, Fei's mother, and discovered Fei was the true "Contact". It was evident that Cherenkov was...something...connected to the Zohars but they never explained what. And we don't see Fei/ "Abel" until Episode 3. Instead, we get this weird backstory about Cherenkov being mentally unstable. Murdering Women. And being present for an "incident" on Mictam when a prototype Kos-mos went on a rampage.
This is purely conjecture, but early concept art showed Kos-Mos with short hair. A lot like Miang in Xenogears. In the end they made her (and Telos) a vessel for Mary Magdalen. But I suspect she was meant to be a vessel for a Myyah-like character. And Ramsus has some sense or sight that recognizes her. We never get a scene between Cherenkov and Julia. Julia's involvement in the Zohar project doesn't really come up until Episode 3, when they introduce Abel. Hmmmm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt6L-pH4Q6g
>>3556543The fate of humanity
>>3557119So the Culture...in reverse. Or Otomo's Phoenix if given a horrific conclusion.
>>3557291iirc, Ramsus was also a clone of Emperor Cain. As the contact, Fei has dreams and visions of his past lives. Lacan, the painter. Kim, the scientist. Abel, the survivor. The question in my mind is if Ramsus had dream/memories of Cain. And I've asked similar questions about Seifer in FF8. Did Ellone connect him to Laguna's past as well?
>>3557139Voyager was the Black Testament. The questions is, why did the Sorceress manipulate Seifer at all? The question is, why was Ziggy really "recycled" and kept in service for over 100 years? There were others like him that were also made into weapons. But he's the only one left. One of the reasons the Life Recycling Act had any ground to stand on was to preserve "utility of genes". What genes did Ziggy have that made him worth preserving. And it could just be that he was a full bred human.
>Fan Theory #888We know from developer interviews that Laguna was originally named Seifer. I just sort of assumed, as they developed the story, that they split his concept up into 2 characters. Turning Seifer into this cosplaying wannabe inspired by Laguna's movie. But if we take Ramsus' role in Xenogears into consideration. It could be that this Prototype Seifer was reared to be an imitation. In the same sense that Ramsus is a clone of Emperor Cain. In this case, perhaps of Laguna or Dollet's unnamed Emperor. In the Balamb library, "a" Sorceress Knight is named Zephyr. Probably the same knight Laguna played in his film. This could be fictional or historical. But Laguna's armor also matches the Emperor's Ghost in the Tomb of the Unnamed King (Dollet's Former Emperor)They were obviously building Seifer up to be Squall's rival. But this fizzles out past disc 1. They don't treat him like a rival, or even a brainwash childhood orphan mate. They make him Rinoa's ex boyfriend, but they don't go anywhere with this. They report his execution, but they don't go anywhere with this. Perhaps they had designs of making Seifer a Sorceress Knight in a past life, and that's why the sorceress picked him. Perhaps he really was executed but revived as a cyborg.
>>3558383Of course, Esthar is the technological marvel. And just as Emperor Cain was secretly alive. Laguna was also secretly alive in Esthar. I wouldn't be surprised if Laguna had actually killed himself in grief over Rain, but Esthar revived him as a cyborg. I have to point out the oddity in the final scene. After Laguna's Flashback, Ellone is walking down to him. In the background are Kiros and Ward - but they are young. Why are they young? Maybe everyone is a robot.
Ziggy allegedly committed suicide after his wife and son were killed. But there are some discrepancies between the details we learn in Episode 2 and Pied Piper. Namely, he had only been married for maybe a year, and his son was really his step-son. So his grief seems disproportion and oddly contrasted with Juli's family situation. He barely had a life with these people. What a coincidence that Juli and Julia both play piano.
>>3544516zurvan iis more like the god of time if its a god or multiuniversal spacetime itself in the context of the chrono universe. it is described as zurvan, the sea of time at one point
>>3561311Yes. FF8 had a lot of imagery that wasn't particularly relevant to it's story. The Time Compression FMV really looks like it was meant for Chrono Cross. Falling through the ocean. I vaguely recall an interview saying FF8 "inspired" Chrono Cross' imagery. But that's kind of of dumb. Because the ocean is the ocean, right? At the very least FF8 must have pre-built some of the assets/techniques used to create Chrono Cross. There maybe be some connect to FF9's development as well, concerning Memoria. Xenosaga has ocean imagery too. I mean, we have this concept art for Ep1 that didn't really appear in Ep1. I think the Foundation place where Jr lived had an artificial beach, and then the game ended on a Beach, iirc. I think Shion was suppose to drift over to this kind of "Astral Plane" beach, connected with some "Whale" like Gnosis. But it wasn't presented strongly. In-game we ended up with a grey-scale silent hill fog zone, I think. Ep2 also had a beach, in Sakura/Momo's mindscape (I'll come back to this)Ep3 started on a beach. And all the games has special swimsuit costumes which you can just wave as fan service, but I really think they were meant to spend more time on a beach.
>>3561320I had this long thing written up about Sakura's condition; her "sensitivity" to the UMN. I think it's easiest to say she's trapped in the Astral Plane, in a sense. Because the UMN - "The Internet of the Galaxy", is secretly operating in the collective unconscious. That's the literal sense of the word "collective" and not the way it's meant irl psychology. Something is blocking her connection to her body. Which is why they created MOMO, to be another body to connect to. At least...that's the theory. But, spoiler: Sakura died. We don't even know how. We don't know if MOMO worked as intended. But in Ep2 we have a "summer" and "winter" version of the same "subconscious domain" that implies they were connected to the same unconscious space. It's awful level design and it's supposed to end at a "beach". But it's clearly not a beach. I think U-DO was the ocean, a "Wave entity" the "Zurvan" in Xenogears. Or, somekind of Lunar Body in that space that created the waves. There is something there in FFX as well, in the Farplane. And of course, in FF8, they had the lunar cry, which was a red sea like U-DO. Jr was the Anti U-Do wave form coded name "Red Dragon" There's something in FF8 connecting the "Death of the Sorceress" with a Ruby Dragon, I think they were going somewhere with that. FFX's final boss ended up being the mind-jacking Yu-Yevon. Similar to Ultimecia, except FF8 seemed to have dropped the significance of the "Dreaming" by disc 3.
All this just makes up a body of work that we can draw conclusions from to try and explain some of the mysteries in these games from a design perspective. Obviously Rinoa isn't a Realian made up of nanomachines. But I don't think it's far-fetched to suggest that that is exactly what the Dollet Empire was when it split off from Esthar. Some kind of manufactured life, like the Black Mage "Dolls" in FF9, that became independent. Genetically engineered to channel ether; "drawing" power from a Zohar or something. Timber was also seeking independence from Galbadia. Ironically, Rinoa ended up being dependent herself. Speaking of fetch, Rinoa's Limit Break is different from everyone else's because it involves her dog Angelo. Until space, when she starts using her sorceress powers. We're lead to believe Rinoa inherited "some" of Edea's powers. But I think it was the intention of the writers to make Rinoa always a sorceress. I think, like Sakura, Rinoa was supposed to be trapped in a dream dimension beach, until Ellone or the J.M.E. "Connected" her back to her body.But there wasn't ever a beach scene outside of the orphanage flashback.
>>3561384Speaking of Orphanages. In Chrono Cross, Kid is also raised in an orphanage. But it's not by a beach. It's by a forest. A giant forest on the mainland. Similar to Timber's Great forest. But Lynx burned it down. And we learn this when Kid is in a Coma. What Chrono Cross had, which FF8 didn't, was the Masamune made of "Dreamstone". This allowed Serge to enter Kid's Dream and save her from the burning orphanage. Promising to see her some day. Making it uncertain if it was just a dream or the past. Again. Rinoa never grew up in a orphanage as far as we know. And Sakura didn't either. However, Rinoa could be a kind of "time orphan", as Ellone was attempting to change the past. Hooking Laguna up with her mother, right after Laguna was burning down Timber's Forests. In Chrono Cross everyone has a time clone in Homeworld and Another World (dead or live); except for the younger characters born after the time crash. Instead, those few characters have "equivalents".When Rinoa was released as a character for Dissidia NT, she has a Blond Hair version matching Amano's concept art. But what if it was more than that? What if Rinoa was suppose to have a "Momo", an equivalent, in another timeline.
>>3561402
>>3561402Which reminds me of the whole thing with Gainun and Yuriev. Black Hair to Blond Hair. I was rewatching scenes. I could have sword Yuriev had always designed the U.R.T.V.s to be alternate bodies for him. But Yuriev says in Ep3 that his ability to possess Gainun's body was an ability he obtained from contacting U-DO.
Who the heck is Hyne anyway? How are the sorceresses chosen?
>>3562073Maybe not "who" but "what"The creator of mankind.Split in 2. 1 half has "no power"In context to Xenogears, it's like, oh, the Eldridge! It crashed, splitting in 2 main pieces: The Tower of Babel and Mahanon. It's engine was the Zohar. It's AI is Kadomony. After the crash it 3D printed some humans to start rebuilding the Deus System. But the Humans are also components, you see?We might call these people Kadmonites. Which in Hebrew tradition would be called "Children of the East". So...Esthar-ly? Abel survived the crash somehow. Kadomony creates Elly/Myyah as well as Emperor Cain. (Honestly, I think there were more survivors and Cain just killed everyone)Cain then created more humans. The Gazel Ministry and the rest of Humanity, to rebuild Deus. In the Bible, after Cain kills Abel, he sets up the first civilization East of Eden, in a land called Nod. Eventually leading to the Tower of Babel story in Genesis.
Hey, schizo retard. You're a schizo retard. 5 fucking years later and you're still at it daily.
FF8 didn't have a "Tower of Babel"But it did have a 3 mile high "Crystal Pillar" excavated from the Centra Crater. While a lighthouse wouldn't be unexpected. Both games also have orphanages. And the Centra are equivalent to the Zeboim civilization.
>>3557510The Orphanage is why. Seifer, Squall, and the rest of the cast were there and were there with Ellone. They all shared a type of common link and Seifer was just the easiest to manipulate due to his abrasive and hypercompetitive nature.
>>3562214Love what you do and you’ll never work a day in your life, anon.
>>3562214FF8 came out 25 years ago. Harvestella came out 2 years ago. When are you going to process this new telemetry?
>>3532666>Are they grown in labs, or do women just randomly pop out dolphin-babies?I think it was supposed to be a mix of Solaris doing genetic experiments to make the human population even more suitable as replacement parts for Deus, and possibly Kim's nanotech escaping into the wild and screwing around. We do know that demi-humans can reproduce with normal humans though, so that makes it more likely for demi-human DNA to get spread into the wider gene pool.
I was talking with another FF8 enthusiast about Final Fantasy's narrative design in general. His thoughts were that the writing process probably began with the new core mechanics. Explaining that the Junction system wasn't really new because it was just a reskin of the Magicite and Materia systems of the previous games The new thing to FF8 was the Compatibility Meter, which was ultimately inconsequential. It wasn't just GFs, party members had hidden meters as well. >>3561384>intention of the writers to make Rinoa always a sorceressIt was actually their intention to make the sorceress the person with the highest compatibility meter. But they scrapped it after the US release of FF7. Killing your darling inspired FFX's "final summoning" and the aeon battles. So anyways, I pointed them to this thread and asked what they thought of a Xenogears connection. They were like, "Oh, yeah, the Anima Relics". >we proceeded to geek out about FFX all night
