Are their any good MMORPGs right now? WoW and FF14 are simply not "it"
>>3542591MMORPGs are just mindless repetitive grinds for pavlovian addictswhy would you even play them
>>3542599Should I play every other modern video game which is a open world survival game with endless crafting?
>>3542599>MMORPGs are just mindless repetitive grinds for pavlovian addicts>why would you even play themTo distract yourself from the void.
>>3542591I don't think so fren.I had a few laughs going back to ESO but:>the engine was never good in the first place and all the polish in the world can't transform that dogturd coreBlack Desert looks like pointless sandbox with that kind of korean crafting that tries to get you to burn real life dollars into RNGLost Ark might have some decent arpg mechanics but shallow in terms of ARPG build freedom, and I think it has that kind of korean crafting that tries to get you to burn real life dollars into RNGGW2 I could almost go back to for some of their fun ARPGish builds like Necromancer, Charr Engineer but the flat level 20 thing catches up with you fast and it's pretty old now. I always preferred the GW1 skill setups and collecting rares anyway.I think that's it. Unironically I'd rather be in a 7D2D, V Rising, or Valheim server with a few good people than chasing grind points with casuals in MMOs and all their dead design trends that got half assed in the first place. Fuck I'd rather be in a Borderlands 2 server with some peeps.WoW TBC was still peak MMO RPG to me, when it felt like an actual game instead of a chatroom/cosmetic market, and had crafting and build decisions.
>>3542591Well, you might try New World.I found it ok, decent engine, I don't really like the class>weapon thing but some of their actiony setups were fun with a controller.Game is pretty dead though and not a huge amount to do besides grind crafts and your house.The theme never grabbed me either, like human only LOTR crossed with Thanksgiving, and sprinkle in a tiny amount of Lovecraft, lol.Flail was kind of cool though smack people around and heal.Some anemic pvp scene but it does have one.
>>3542637>Well, you might try New World.Opinion has never been discarded so quickly
>>3542591what's a good MMO then in your opinion? what's "it"? you'd get better answers if you asked questions that could actually be answered
>>3542591If I knew of such good MMORPG, why the hell would I want to invite /vrpg/ scum in there?
>>3542591If only Roguetown on SS13 wasn't gay furry shit right now, it was actually really fun. Forming parties, levelling skills and shit were all genuinely dynamic, and you could actuallt roleplay.
>>3542591is that a prostitute you picked up and killed at a truck stop?
>>3542591MMOs died to gacha. No one will make a new MMO when you can make a gacha that takes much less effort.
>>3542642NP, fren pass revoked and you are free to kill yourself without further concern on my part for your plight.
>>3542591Online games are dead until laws start being enforced against companies wiretapping and arbitrarily robbing their customers.
>>3542591EVE Online>bubububuEVE Online is the only real and true MMO left, play it before it's gone
>>3542591It used to be a game where the developers envisioned a living breathing world. Now it's just an interactive lobby for the simplest forms of gamified treadmills. The point is that you can't release an MMORPG today that targets the original concept and call it an MMORPG. The current MMO audience will reject it, and other audiences will avoid it. So, they will only release more treadmills. Because that's what MMO means now and has meant for two decades.
>>3542591>FF14 are simply not "it"XIV is one of the best video game stories ever told (ShB/EW)
>>3544003I got filtered by Seventh Astral Era.
whats her name again, Serena? she got cute sister
SWTOR if you play it as an RPG first then stay for the raids post game, the harder operations were the most fun I've ever had in a multiplayer game.This is coming from a socially retarded idiot who had to be dragged into discord servers but man once you get your team and start progging it's peak
>>3542591I miss her
>>3542591guild wars 1, 20 years ago
>>3542642>>3542637I played NW at launch and it could have been good.The problem was 3 things.1. Horrible bugs in wars that literally killed it. People were just freezing the whole server.2. The elitism in Wars, I was lucky because I played at start and nolifed it so I got into wars just because I was high-level, but as soon as everyone caught up it would quickly turn into a boys only club and you had to get into the major guilds and suck the guild-leaders cock to play.3. The devs didn't account for the obvious thing that happened in every server of one side with the most tryhards, absolutely dominating everything.They literally put 0 thought into this happening and it happened everywhere.That being said for the few times that the wars worked as they should have it was VERY fun.
>>3542631GW2 is fun.WvW was my favorite and also PvP was ok.But also if you just wanna chill inbetween you just join the zerg for mindless grind and laughs.Also no retarded WoW gearing system. For me it had everything.GW2 is when I realized that MMOs are simply a waste of time. As good as an MMO is it is just one game. You could be playing multiple games in this timeframe. It's like reading the same book over and over or watching the same movie over and over. Sure if it's a good one you can do it multiple times, but at the end of the day you will want something different.So they are just not worth it, unless you are severely mentally ill.
>>3542591Toontown
>>3542604>false dilemma
>>3543606MMOs (bugman genre btw) are all spiritual precursors to gachas.
>>3544728SWTOR is/was easily one of the greatest post WoW games to come out for the genre. Combat, classes, balance, lore, story, design all A+. They fell into the 'wow killer' trap that so many games around 2010, between rushed release (no raids, no end game) and extreme over estimations (like 100? servers) populations were stretched way too thin. Then of course the doomed f2p / p2w that pretty much every game in the last 10 years has done.
serena......
>>3544003It would be a great story if it actually stayed focused instead of going off on tangents all the time for little-to-no payoff a mountain of hours later. Anything involving the empire, primals, and otherworldly beings is great shit but I could not give a single flying fuck about the rest of the cast, especially the scions. Fuck Minfilia, fuck Yda, fuck Y'shtola, fuck the lot of those spineless cucks. Minfilia especially is such a fucking terrible character there are multiple power gaps between her and FFT's Rafa.Elf twink gets a pass however for dropping the greatest "Fuck you" in the franchise, though.
>>3542591I've tried to find the answer too, anon, and I can't.Ashes of Creation looks the most interesting so far, but I'm still researching it and the release date is like two weeks after the death of the sun.I'd like to get back into one. Going back to Warmane feels like a mistake.>captcha: DPS2
>>3547084Speaking of servers, SWTOR just opened a completely new server a few months back. Broadsword is kinda keeping it alive for now.
>>3547125This opinion is quite based, esp. since it is a FFXIV sourced opinion.
>>3547084>Combat, classes, balance, lore, story, design all A+. They fell into the 'wow killer' trap that so many games around 2010, between rushed release (no raids, no end game) and extreme over estimations (like 100? servers) populations were stretched way too thin. Then of course the doomed f2p / p2w that pretty much every game in the last 10 years has done.I agree that SWTOR had something special at first, but the guys that would have been a bulwark against all those shitty MMO decisions were purged in the great DEI/ESG anti-white racism pushes that corps did too. I am going to be here to remind leftists of this until the sun goes out.>They left to make craft beerYou don't leave your passion and profitable position unless you see the handwriting on the wall. I have seen it before from inside adjacent industry.
>>3544921>GW2 is when I realized that MMOs are simply a waste of time. As good as an MMO is it is just one game. You could be playing multiple games in this timeframe. It's like reading the same book over and over or watching the same movie over and over. Sure if it's a good one you can do it multiple times, but at the end of the day you will want something different.>So they are just not worth it, unless you are severely mentally ill.Not saying you're wrong, but if you have even one good friend to mess around with in MMOs it changes things up a lot. That was supposed to be the original point after all, shared experiences, not single player addiction mechanics.
>>3542591Mabinogi but it's ancient and kind of buggy. Otherwise the most fun I've had with MMOs was playing private servers of long dead ones like Ragnarok Online. Modern MMOs are hit or miss. Tree of Saviour and Dungeon Fighter Online are pretty fun
>>3544003It's fucking shit mate. And it's barely an MMORPG. FFXIV is just a chatroom for AGP individuals to play futa catgirl sex with each other using plugins inbetween the long patch cycles where they stand in circular/square arenas spamming the same button combinations on the same flashy looking bosses so they can get their tokens for equally flashy gear to show off in Limsa/U'ldah for 18 hours a day with the other same-faced and suspiciously all """female""" catgirls/lizards/rabbits. Dogshit fucking game, dogshit community, dogshit """MMO""". And the cultists will see this comment and probably spill their titty pills in rage as they rush to type a comment calling me a wowdrone as if I'd ever play that slightly less dogshit but still dogshit """MMO""".Oh and before any of the cultists rush to defend the story, allow me to counter with>Wuk Lamatrail
>>3547335Do you sometimes feel that if you get angry enough the football gods will come down and award you a UK slag with all her teeth still intact?The story in SHB was in fact awesome. I basically played through it, some 'female' in Limsa hit on my Human, Male, Ninja/Dragoon/Dark Knight, and I just logged out, having played out all the fun I felt, rather than feeling sexually threatened enough to come type rants about it. I had some good times doing tower roguelikes with randos too.
>>3547335Why are you getting worked up over degenerate faggots; you type like you been personally attacked. I'm assuming you think they are the cause of some sort of MMO decline, but as others stated like >>3543606 and >>3546854 this genre's death is inevitable. On topic, I been having an MMO itch for a long time, but I have yet to find that niche community I can loosen up towards.Maybe I'll try XIV again after I graduate, two more semesters to go.
Tibia
>>3542591Every other MMO is objectively worse then WoW and FF14, so if you don't like those you probably need to find a different genre.
>>3550400Because that was worth the bump.
>>3542591These two are best, so by your retarted standards, no.
>>3550433Kek MMO is the worst genre for spergs avoiding popular things.
>>3542591>9 days later >Still no answer
Serenas sister>Serena
>>3542591I'm experiencing the same thing OP. I payed for a WoW sub refresh and ff14 sub refresh in the same weekend....I just want 'that' experience again.
Age of Conan is still online, try that
>>3551527>hi pop retail wow>sign the social contract, on top of the eula, lmao>no one says a word anymore>probably a mankrik's wife joke will get you permabanned and blizz account stolenI'm playing it but I don't think 'that' experience will be allowed to exist anymore anon.I think I'm going to experiment by being as terrible as possible in dungeon pugs now and see who loses it.
>>3542591no, dead genre, unless you want to replay pso1 or dfo for the millionth time
>>3547175>he fell for the scamshes of no creation scami see you weren't there to learn the lesson from scamalot unreleased, mmoboomerfags are sp easy to grift money from, it's pathetic
>>3542591if I had the time I would dissapear into osrs
I want to go back
>>3552749Pic makes me wish for a co-op souls game that requires a bit more tactical play, utilizing different roles
>>3552750I'd be happy for a not shit diablo
>>3552777Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles 2 could be good too
>>3543930You can't do shit in that game other than mining and fighting, and your avatar is just a ship, you can't even walk around in any of the world's locations or even inside your ship
>>3552790social skill issue, I became a corpo leutenant within two weeks leading a smalldiversion squad into enemy corp territory
>>3542631>Unironically I'd rather be in a 7D2D, V Rising, or Valheim server with a few good people than chasing grind points with casuals in MMOsThis. You get more fun with not so much grind. And you can also play solo.
>>3542599>excessive grind>unique to MMOsThat's all live service games. It's even worse in free to play live service games. They are factually designed to become a habit/work. People even cope by saying that incredible amounts of grind is "fine" because the game is "free to play".>>3542591WoW and FF14 are the "best". Everything else is worse.
>>3547125>It would be a great story if it actually stayed focusedIt's padding, to make the story last longer (since it's an MMO with a monthly sub).>>3547335FF14 is effectively a singleplayer MMO in which you can do raids, dungeons and social shit (like housing) on the side.WoW has much better "multiplayer", but horrible story, characters and insane gatekeeping grind.
>>3552816>FF14 is effectively a singleplayer MMO in which you can do raids, dungeons and social shit (like housing) on the side.No, WoW is exactly the same. Because thgat is the WoW formula post WotLK
Honestly I gaveup on finding MMO with living community where people actually interact a long time ago, but now I can't find any multiplayer game like that and it saddens me.
>>3552817Except in FF14 you literally can't do the story mode with someone else. Your character is more integrated into the story. You can do dungeons and raids with AI.WoW is a classic style MMO.FF14 is a singleplayer FF game in MMO trappings.
>>3552819Play with friends, there's plenty of games with co-op potential.
>>3552826>WoW is a classic style MMO.WoW is a themepark garbage slop and so is FF14
>>3552829>Games used to be the place where you find buddies and friends>Now you already have to have friends, somehowI have IRL friends and they're not interested in online games.
>>3552830Point me in the direction of an active MMO that isn't utter dogshit and is more in line with classic style MMO structure.
>>3552833Eve OnlineAlbion OnlineMortal Online Mortal Online 2Classic RunescapeAny fan revival of any sandbox MMO, Like SWG Legends
>>3552831I meant there's more options for multiplayer games if you have friends to play with.You can still make friends online. I got a few from playing Dark Souls, don't see how it would be impossible in other games.
>>3552834>active>lists long dead ones played on private server shit
>>3552837Well that is the thing. Dark Souls nudges you to cooperate with people (or PvP against them). But most online games now either expect you to have friends, or toss you in with randos without actually doing anything to make ou cooperate or build any connections.
>>3552839I listed real MMOs, WoWtranny. They're all active and alive. Go back to your treadmill
>>3552840>But most online games now either expect you to have friends, or toss you in with randos without actually doing anything to make ou cooperate or build any connections.I have a hard time imagining a game where it's hard to make friends. I met people in FPS games, WoW, even Morrowind lol. Most of the time all you need to do is ask for help, and go from there.
>>3543462SS13 being completely overrun with furries in the last 5-10 years really is a fucking disaster. I legit think it's a containment zone for them nowadays, it must be 90% of the people that still play SS13.
>>3544003I like XIV, but saying shit like that is exactly why people despite the game and it's playerbase. Actual mental illness.It's barely above average and that's if you ignore the gigantic amounts of filler.
>>3552845>Play MMO>Go to the dungeon with randos>Try to make small talk >3/4 party members stay silent>one says "Shut the fuck up and tank"They're probably scrolling through tiktok or some shit.
>>3547084>combat, classes>A+The combat and classes is literally the singular reason why the game isn't popular... It's fucking terrible.
>>3552846>SS13 being completely overrun with furries>Just as ecelebs like Mandalore made videos on itREally makes you THINK, hmmmmmmm
>>3552848>>Try to make small talk >>3/4 party members stay silent>>one says "Shut the fuck up and tank"Kek skill issue, I'm afraid
>>3547125A side-effect of MMO cancer. As much as Yoshi claims he respects people's time and wants people to play other games, he still fills his game with tons of filler shit to make the MSQ literally 10x bigger than it should be.>>3547175Ashes looks like shit and I'm not talking only visuals. I really cannot understand what anyone is hyped about.
>>3547269Mabinogi cucked itself by adding catchup mechanics that skip the entire game.Makes it so no one is actually playing the game.
>>3552851Nah people in MMORPGs are legitimately antisocial. It wasn't the issue for me 10 years ago. I was ion a big guild, with many buddies playing regularly. And many my former guildmates reported the same. It's a people issue.
>>3552854The fact that people still don't understand this blows my mind, desu. People still cling to the fact that (insert old MMO here) was the best because it was a perfectly designed game that encouraged cooperation and talking, etc etc, when it had nothing to do with it. Vanilla WoW was shit. EQ was shit. Runescape was fucking shit.It was just a different time where the novelty of talking to people online, especially in videogames, hadn't passed. Anytime games nowadays try to push cooperation and socialization, players just optimize all the fun out of it instead to try and sidestep it.Discord, skype, AIM/IRC/MSN Messenger whatever the fuck, were all mistakes.
>>3552854Nah, I don't believe that. It's perfectly understandable that people don't care about meaningless small talk.>>3552855>players just optimize all the fun outThis is a bigger problem. Know-it-all spergs who don't need any meaningful interaction.>yeah i know it already, i read the guideLike I said, many people are eager to help. That's where you build a connection, reciprocity and friendship.
>>3552857>Nah, I don't believe that. It's perfectly understandable that people don't care about meaningless small talk.Yeah, because they're antisocial and you never played MMOs in late 90s-early 2000s, newfag
>>3552858Cope
>>3552843You literally didn't answer the question while also proving my point. Bravo, idiot. You smoked yourself.
>>3552859Sorry man, but there are things you just missed out own due to being born too late. You should've been born better. Skill issue.
>>3552866Seems like you're the one missing something here. I'm not having trouble making friends.Good luck to you.
>>3552816>WoW has much better "multiplayer", but horrible story, characters and insane gatekeeping grind.The story has its highs and lows and I foresee War Within being a better "story" than Dawntrail. Characters are very hit and miss and largely on the shit side. The gatekeeping grind is effectively erased now and its never been easier (especially with upcoming Warbands) to gear up alts to be raid ready. We don't talk about PvP.
>>3552869Neither do I, skillet
>>3552859What does you being a 2016+ newfag nigger have to do with this thread?
>>3552852>Yoshi claims he respects people's timeand other hilarious jokes FF14 players can tell themselves. You could literally cut the main quest of every story arc down to 50 via outright removal and then condensing several others into bigger quests.You could also massively improve it by killing Minfilia in the intro and cutting her out as a middleman. Imagine how much time you would save from that alone. Hell, if I had to choose between "Headbutt a cactuar" and "Warn Minfilia she's going to get kidnapped, beaten, raped, and tortured to death" I would turn myself into a drooling lobotomite with a needle sticking through my forehead without a second thought.
>>3553056>You could also massively improve it by killing Minfilia in the intro and cutting her out as a middlemanThey are averse to doing a lot of things because they directly connect and come back later in the story.A lot of things that happens in A Real Reborn story directly connects to Shadowbringer and the like, which are regarded as the best in terms of story for the game.Cutting out parts with Ascians, Minfilia, white auracite, etc would downplay other parts of the game.In all honesty, they'd be better off with a "the story so far" summarizing the most important things between lv1-50, including the Crystal Tower raid with a like 5-10min video. Lv1-50 and the story is by far the biggest slog and hurdle of getting into FF14.
>>3553072>they directly connect and come back later in the story.As a throwaway line that is completely irrelevant.
>>3553101Minfilia comes up a lot as an important character for many characters.Minfilia is a key character in Shadowbringers and directly relates to 2 of the main cast of that story.If Minfilia was cut entirely, the story and impact of Shadowbringers would suffer.Same is true for the stuff about the Ascians (which were relevant right up until Endwalker).
>>3553115>Minfilia is a key character in Shadowbringers and directly relates to 2 of the main cast of that story.Literally why I dropped it when Shadowbringers came out.
I got an invite to the Corepunk alpha
>>3544918A very fair assessment, war sobbery made me quit even though people were actively trying to bring me into the club. The game was fun otherwise but they dropped the ball.
Haven't been excited for an MMO in years. Decades even. I mostly play the TLP servers for official Everquest now, or I hope into P99. Sometimes I play MMO-lite games like Conan Exiles, Rust, etc.
>>3552870>actually am restarting wow since legion at this moment>in spite of everything Blizzard managed ekeing out a little fun with a character i'm RP immersed into>hit the point at which i know addons are gonna be required which is because i want to dungeon, on a healer>fun stopsHonestly addons are what killed WoW. I can code IRL and I still don't want to fuck around with them. I would appreciate it if every one of you that are like this:>Oh I'd never mod a single player RPG because muh honorable e-sport tradition>Yet I'll mod the shit out of WoW, because I must win muh e-sportswould kill yourselves right away. It would be better for all RPG genres, MMO or not.Nothing personal, you're just part of the cancer.Mods should never have been allowed, agree with FF not allowing even DPS meters for this reason.
>>3553891>he thinks everyone isn't using addons and especially cacbot when raidingMate. That same culture is in FFXIV now and isn't going away.
>>3553977I am 95th percentile in XIV savage raids and do not use any addons beside FFLogs to stroke my micropenis in front of trannies. But I'm absolutely with other anons mentioning that addons, DPS parsers, etc. are what killed MMOs. There is no sense of immersion, going at your pace, taking a breather as you explore the MMO. Now its all about rushing all the content ASAP for glams or retards like me when raiding.
I play Ultima Online but on a PvE shard (because I'm old and I don't have time + I suck at pvp). I recommend the following:PVP = OutlandsPVE= UO Eventine (My pick) / InsaneUO
>>3552870>The story has its highs and lows and I foresee War Within being a better "story" than Dawntrail.No matter the quality of the "writing", WoW's story is simply not presented well. It's told to you either in walls of unvoiced quest text, or you have characters emoting in the game while your camera is zoomed too far out from everyone's faces. FF14's writing is nowhere near as good as its cultists make it out to be, but at least it has decent presentation with the cutscenes and closeup shots on the characters so people can digest the story.That being said, at the end of the day these are MMORPGs, not singleplayer RPGs. It is the gameplay and the social factor which is what matters, and all current MMOs suffer in that regard as they do not facilitate the formation of friendships like in Vanilla WoW or era FF11 where the game was hard right off the bat and you needed to make friends with the people around you to level up, leading to the formation of guilds which then did 40 man raids or huge PvP wars.
You know what would be cool, a MMO with stuff that is fixed and handcrafted like cities, towns etc but all the rest of the world would be procedurally generated and change every so often, so you'd always have a reason to go exploring it. Imagine the emergent gameplay, like there's a road linking two towns, and another time there'd be a huge mountain instead, so you'd have to climb the mountain to reach that same town, then another time there'd be a huge river and you'd have to build a raft to traverse it and so on
>>3554562>No matter the quality of the "writing", WoW's story is simply not presented well. It's told to you either in walls of unvoiced quest text, or you have characters emoting in the game while your camera is zoomed too far out from everyone's faces.Another problem is how they keep throwing too many new characters your way that are barely fleshed out. So you end up not caring about them and even forgetting who they are.The more established characters are also incredibly boring and shallow.So you end up with a poorly told story with characters you don't care about and where your character's presence isn't even really aknowledged.So far I'd say War for Azeroth is one of the better ones. Like in Zandalar they mostly kept it to the king, princess and Bwonsamdi which were also relatively decent characters (for WoW) with Bwonsamdi being a standout. They also had some pretty nice scenic shots.
>>3554584>procedurally generatedHorrible idea. It guarantees the design of the world will always be bad.It also doesn't actually increase replayability much at all (a common mistake people make with procedural worlds). You're far better off doing it systemically.
>>3554584I know people are going to shit on my take, but games like PoE, Diablo, etc. are practically that. ARPGs are getting more MMO-esque by the years.
>>3547365Current xiv expansion story is god awful, literal 4/10 stuff carried by older characters cameos. WoL isn’t MC anymore and that role is taken by a furry cat voiced in english by a tranny. (I play in JP but her having a cute and good VA didn’t really help that much)But the new dungeons and EX bosses are fun, and the gfx update did a good job in refreshing the visuals so it actually looks pretty again…
>>3555588>Current xiv expansion story is god awful, literal 4/10 stuff carried by older characters cameos. WoL isn’t MC anymore and that role is taken by a furry catThe concept of making it about helping a character grow and seeing their journey and development is a fine idea. The problem is that Wuk Lamat isn't interesting, charismatic or deep enough.The story is kind of awkwardly split in two as well, which doesn't help.It's more or less another Stormblood, which they managed to salvage with good side content/raids and build upon into Shadowbringers.
>>3555608the problem is that the story is too long, and they start wuk as a retarded child, so she has to go from 0-100 in 5 levels of quests while introducing bothe the world and all the supporting cast. The whole first half moves at a snails pace and as she also isn’t very interesting or fun. It just drags on in a boring mess. Even if the world itself is fine and the zones are beautiful.By the time she has a semblance of self-reliance and understanding of her surroundings everyone is tired of her already. And there’s no room for a power growth arc so she ends up beating Bakul jaja for no reason other than “hopes and dreams, smiles, peace” and it’s just embarrassing. Bakul is also a clown the whole time, they should had said Blessed grow at a prodigious rate and that hes 14-16, because that’s the way he acts throughout the whole thing anyway, would make him breaking down after a scolding from his dad more believable as well.Anyway they somehow made a 50 hour story feel rushed. It’s crazy, the best zone is the cowboy town and living memory just because there’s some normal story telling and the kind of stuff we expected with a vacation in Tural, which was how the story was passed off…Also Erenvilles mother somehow ends up beeing one of the better characters. Along with robot queen and Gulul Jaja. While two of three main antagonists are just strange madmen with hollow motives, both more or less lacking a story arc.Oh and it’s funny that the ships carry Z symbols as they leave the dome, but then they suddenly disappear. Maybe they cut some Putin analogies late in the story planning?
>>3557662>Anyway they somehow made a 50 hour story feel rushedIt feels rushed because it's split in two. Dawnservant and Alexandria.>robot queenWas actually a bad character and antagonist. They tried to pull another pseudo Shadowbringer Emet and Endwalker Meteion, but it just didn't work because she just came across as crazy (in a boring way), shallow and non-threatening.As a whole there were just too many ideas squeezed into the story and characters, making it incredibly busy while also making most of everything too shallow or rushed.
>>3554617Nope you're right.We should have arpg like Mon Hun but that is actually a full RPG with something to do between bosses that isn't waiting rooms.Diablo 4 actually might do it better with raid mechanics in the expansion. There the problem is it's a solo game at core however.WoW tab target, huge barrier to entry at any decent play level for new casuals, and dead content and ability bloat. I'm running a new alt up now just to see what it's like these days and it's pretty dead feeling even on high pop server. I will say they added a ton of QoL over the years, like multi spec will auto switch you in the dungeon, and much better targeting systems can be used by default with a lot less addons.What's needed to rejuvenate MMO is this:>ARPG with physics, verticality, similar to BG3 (frankly it could be a turn based MMO like this), Valheim etc.>Procedural changeups even in known content>Classes that are absolutely needed to be brought, you can call it trinity or go back to EQ style with enchanter, travel spells, or be actually creative.>Social and matching features that are designed to be absolutely convenient to discourage people from going back to discord>In game voice that works, and content that is designed from the ground up to funnel people into hard chokepoints that they need help to get through.The physics takes care of everyone turning it into a parse race and checking out of being engaged, there will be situational areas where someone's build will do better even 'unoptimized'.The procedural changeups also do this.The reliance on class features brings back the social reliance of older titles like EQ, DAOC, Classic WoWThe social and matching features would be conducive to that.It used to be you could barely move to the next town in EQ without help, and ideally the open world would instead of being a slideshow be massively dangerous, with enemy AI making creative new procedural structures where you might have had a milk run last week.
>>3557691The last factor to fix MMOs is keeping a sense of exploration. This would mean NEVER doing public betas, flirting with streamers, or even basic marketing for expansions.Instead content is quietly released into the procedural engine which quietly writes in a new AI procedural paradigm that might generate a goblin kingdom somewhere no one was expecting it two months after no one has yet figured out the original raid encounter even because things are obfuscated as possible specifically to block datamining, and make it hard for offline sites to even profit off basic info. This keeps the sense of an organic world and reduces all that dead content bloat.On another server, the location of the goblin kingdom might end up being a seed for a few goblin merchants that got destroyed early on so they went to build a few tunnels somewhere else. You get the idea. Obfuscation and procedural gen being an actual design principle in this MMO. Making scouting and information gathering classes an actual worthwhile thing.
>>3557691They're not MMOs, they lean into live service aspects that result in people spending more money.The reason why some non-spending players in F2P games are allowed is that they serve as content for the paying customers and as people to show off their cosmetics or whatever for.It's not designed for community or fun, but profit.
>>3557697>It's not designed for community or fun, but profit.Agreed, and yeah, whales vs. plankton, but once the industry is shown a different way they would get in line.A new pre-DEI/ESG Blizzard tier rep would be built by the one that got it right.I could see a truly sustainable sub model. Planktons would redo their budgets to get in, because it'd be actually good, and a substitute for incel life, and there wouldn't really be much for whales to buy and they'd need skill.You'd have to deal with the asmongolds turning one proc gen server into their personal twitter farm but I think the nature of the thing would block that from spreading to other servers too much. Same with gold farming tech, the enemy AI complexity would be looking for ways to shut those down and keep their costs high.There is a way to build a satisfying online world that is financially sustainable I feel, it's just tech barriers and industry trends going in the cheaper and faster directions.I realize that so many MMOs are also ambitious boondoggles on the level of Wycliffe tower, so you'd need to start a model that could scale up from 20 people server or so and pay for itself along the way.
>>3557708>once the industry is shown a different way they would get in line.Not so long as companies are obsessed with the line going up and finding more golden geese.
Games as a service are a blight to the industry.
>>3557680She’s a deranged robot programmed to defend the endless at all costs, it’s far more interesting than Zeral Jas mad crusade to “teach people the folly of war through war” or whatever.
>>3557797Both are bad. Ironically if they focused more on the Dawnservant ark and propped up Bakool Ja Ja better and fleshed out the narrative surrounding him, he would've worked as a much better antagonist than Zoraal. You could then basically end with Zoraal's betrayal and getting power from the city of gold (without involving any Alexandrian or other world stuff, save that for post launch patches) with him basically having that jacked up soul form at the end instead.Bakool was more interesting than Zoraal and saving his redemption towards the end against Zoraal would've worked better. It would also avoid the anti-climactic fight Wuk Lamat has vs Bakool currently, where she wins for no good reason despite being the weakest (and narritively not supposed to be better than Bakool or Zoraal in terms of fighting, since she focuses more on the heart of the people).Sphene just came across as retarded, confused, incompetent and non-threatening. Which makes no sense for a several hundred year old super robot.
>>3557723I had never heard of this practice before I got burned by battlefield 5 and yes it’s absolutely terrible
>>3544918None of those issues were even remotely the problem with the game.The problem with the game was >only like 5 enemies total that you'd fight over and over>end half of the game was clearly rushed, with multiple high level cities being literal copy/paste from other cities, just rotated at a different angle>half a dozen separate different economy exploits that completely and totally ruined every single servers economy >game was programmed by complete amateurs so things like playing in windowed mode and moving the entire game screen around made you invincible or the infinite healing exploits where you literally could not die because you were being pumped with endless 5000+ HP/S aoe heals.The tribalism and other bullshit that you see in every single other PVP mmo or similar game (like ARK, RUST, H1Z1, etc etc) wasn't the cause of the games downfall.It was the fact that the game was designed by absolute fucking amateurs and was chalk full with easily repeated gamebreaking exploits.I mean for FUCKS SAKE literally one of the ways to dupe items was to trade with someone, and just before you hit "accept" on your trade, one of you pulls your internet cord and D/Cs. One of the most basic and braindead ways of duping items, thats been around for literally 30+ years (earliest I can remember is Diablo 1), and they didn't bother to do anything to prevent it.
>>3557886>real pvp mmo has never been tried
A box of Mist of pandaria to go with your catering m'lady?
>>3542591Right now the genre is dead. I know how you feel, I'm craving some classic MMORPG gaming myself, but everything currently on the market just blows.>WoWDead. Been going downhill for over a decade. It's over and Blizzard is a shell of its former self.>FF14Japanese slop. I'll grant that it's your BEST option if you can cope with cringe Japanese bullshit, but... It just doesn't have the sauce. To sterile. Can't even do PvP except in a neutered arena. Game has no balls and nothing going for it beyond a """main plot""", which is not what's supposed to be the main draw of an MMO. May as well be a single player game with a hub to show off your paypig gear.>Korean ShitThere's a wide variety of korean games to play, but they're all basically pay-to-win scams that are sold on the ability to make whores in the character creator and then dress them up in paypig whore outfits. At least FF14 is playable, Korean games are just pump and dump scams that exist to impress the ignorant with Unreal Engine trailers, suck some money out of them, and then get discontinued a year later while the studio makes another fake new hotness game to trick retards with FOMO.>SWtORPlayable for the story if you just gotta have Star Wars sloppa. It's mostly dead other than that.>EVEEVE is only playable if you're willing to suck up to a reddit guild. As in, there is literally nothing you can successfully pull off in the game of any worth unless you get on a corporation's subreddit and convince them to let you have fun by massaging their egos. Only old-timer whales can play this.>RunescapeIt's still okay, but it's never going to be better than okay and it's so fucking clearly obsolete that it's unreal. Most people remember having fun playing Runescape when they were in 5th grade or whatever and there was still some mystery, the world felt big, and there was still fun to be had.Now it's XP-Per-Hour grinding hell for autistic men with no social skills.>Niche MMOsUnity store hell.
>>3559243>Japanese slop. I'll grant that it's your BEST option if you can cope with cringe Japanese bullshit, but... It just doesn't have the sauce. To sterile. Can't even do PvP except in a neutered arena. Game has no balls and nothing going for it beyond a """main plot""", which is not what's supposed to be the main draw of an MMO. May as well be a single player game with a hub to show off your paypig gear.Main draw are the dungeons, raids and music too. All of which are great.
>>3559268lmao
>>3559268Look man, you're going to like what you like, and that's fine.But the dungeons and raids aren't very good. The game is incredibly easy, too easy.And hell, even if they WERE good, the only good thing there is to say about modern WoW is that it still has good dungeons with good mechanics, so you ought to be playing that instead if that's what really matters to you.
Dufos?
>>3559270>But the dungeons and raids aren't very goodCompared to what? What are you basing this on? Aesthetically, mechanically, music are all well done.>The game is incredibly easy, too easy.There are harder versions of raids for hyper autists that love spending a day or more on a single raid.>modern WoW is that it still has good dungeons with good mechanicsIs this a joke? They're an utter incoherent mess and you can clearly see this when playing with randoms where they ignore everything and beeline. The bosses are then bad and very gimmicky.This just comes across as you having played WoW for a long time, having both nostalgia for it and associating "quality" with 'what you grew up with' so to speak.
>>3559298I haven't played WoW in over 10 years because it's been shit for over 10 years.This is just anecdotal because I take people at face value when they praise and/or bitch about it: The dungeons are good. The content for autists is good.It's held back by traditional WoW shitty choices, like the fact that the game literally requires a roster of mods or else you'll be dysfunctional. Which is why, presumably, randoms always get slaughtered and fail. They didn't download the easy-mode mods that play the game for them.That being said, WoW is dogshit, but to reiterate, it does have better dungeons than FF14 and I think you'd have to be delusional to think otherwise. Granted, I don't play either of these games currently, but if you just listen to people who do I think it becomes pretty clear.
>>3559301>That being said, WoW is dogshit, but to reiterate, it does have better dungeons than FF14He says, while admitting to both being biased and not having played WoW for 10 years. Then not even saying why A is good and B is bad.It's like you want people to call you an idiot.
>>3559309Hey, relax man.No reason to get all pissed off on behalf of something like FF14. FF14 isn't going to have sex with you.
>>3559348>u mad broSo you deflect by calling others mad when they point out you say or do something stupid. Ok.
>>3559362>So you deflect by calling others mad when they point out you say or do something stupid. Ok.Yeah.
>>3559298>Compared to what? What are you basing this on? Aesthetically, mechanically, music are all well done.FF14's raid design is very lackluster. Spectacle of the blindingly flashy animations and dramatic cutscenes aside, it's not very fun to actually play. In WoW, you have lots of really fun fights:Flame Leviathan from Ulduar where each player gets into a vehicle (some of them are multi-person vehicles, ie one person driving and another is a gunner) and you fight whole armies and fight a humongous tank.The gunship battle in ICC, where you have players manning cannons and people using jet packs to jump over to the other ship and try to assassinate the enemy commander before jumping back.Spine of Deathwing, where you jump onto the back of a huge dragon and start ripping out his scales and trying to hang on for dear life while he barrels rolls trying to shake you off. Or Madness of Deathwing where you are jumping between the different platforms.The Siegecrafter fight where a B-team splitting off from the raid to jump onto a conveyor belt, trying to DPS down random inventions, but they can't destroy all of the inventions in time so the one that is deployed will have an effect on the raid like pushing people back with magnetization.1/2
>>35596572/2Hans'gar & Franzok where you fight two bosses on a moving conveyor belt, dodging presses stamping down from above and such.The operator Thogar fight in the train station where you are constantly looking both ways, dodging trains left and right.Blackhand where he's calling out siege engines and tanks and infantry to stop you throughout the fight, and as the fight goes on you crash through several floors, and then by the end the whole room is on fire and Blackhand is screaming at you as he goes berserk.Socrethar where you rip his soul out of the mech and someone jumps into the mech and pilots it for a short while.Shadow Lord Ishkarr where you pass the eyeball around to every player in the raid.The Sylvanas fight where you are chasing her, jumping across the giant chains.Etc.FF14 fights have none of that. It's all just run away from the AoE telegraph, get hit once and you get another person killed and the group wipes because you need everyone alive to pass the mechanics and cannot persevere to the end with 75% of the raid dead like in WoW. You repeat the dance over and over until you get that one magic run where all players dodge every AoE over a 5 minute long fight perfectly. There is no interaction.The only exciting fights like WoW in FFXIV are 1. the hound from the last crystal tower raid where a b-team of players go into the belly, 2. the fight with Dawon at the end of Castrum, with a B-team of players splitting off to rumble with Lyon for a minute, and 3. the fight at the end of Dalriada where you fight two bosses at once. That's it.
>>3559657>FF14's raid design is very lackluster. Spectacle of the blindingly flashy animations and dramatic cutscenes aside, it's not very fun to actually play. In WoW, you have lots of really fun fights:They mostly just come across as far too messy, gimmicky, poorly communicated and frankly annoying.The dungeons just feel like big areas you avoid 90% of all enemies to sneak around to each boss which are all forgettable.>FF14 fights have none of that. It's all just run away from the AoE telegraph, get hit once and you get another person killed and the group wipes because you need everyone alive to pass the mechanics and cannot persevere to the end with 75% of the raid dead like in WoWBut that isn't true at all. Unless we're talking some "Ultimate" raids but they're designed to be brutal and to be played with a coordinated stack.>The only exciting fights like WoW in FFXIV are 1. the hound from the last crystal tower raid where a b-team of players go into the belly, 2. the fight with Dawon at the end of Castrum, with a B-team of players splitting off to rumble with Lyon for a minute, and 3. the fight at the end of Dalriada where you fight two bosses at once. That's it.Sounds like you haven't played FF14 in a while.
>>3542591genre's dead, move on
