Will an RPG ever go mainstream without humans as an option? Imagine a whole world without Humans, Elves and Dwarves. Usually every franchise are only allowed one unique race, which is usually shafted to expand on the standard ones. What's the best 'new' race you've seen when playing? Something like the Huana or Qunari.
Video games?
>>3562606Whenever I make characters in RPGs, I never, ever make humans and I've been this way since I was like 5 years old. I hate playing as Humans and I just refuse to. I liked a lot of the weird Wizardry 6-8 races, like Mook and Faerie, and I remember the Phantasie games would let you play as really bizarre races if you used the random race options. Stuff like Minotaurs, Trolls, Pixies, I can't remember what else.This isn't quite what you're looking for, since you don't create your character in Stonekeep, but I liked the made up races in that game. Shargas were Stonekeep's stand-in for Goblins, and they were kind of cool but fairly standard. But Throgs were totally bizarre, tall, spindly green guys; they were always really scary and interesting to me. I really like them for some reason.Let me think. A lot of the recent races like Orlan and Aumaua from Pillars of Eternity haven't really stuck with me, but I don't dislike them. There were some insanely weird races in Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup that I liked - no idea if they're still around - like Gargoyle, Genie, Kobold, Mummy I'm sure a ton of other stuff. I love all the weird races in the SaGa games, especially the most recently, like Puppets, Cats, Monsters and whatever else. I think it's most fun when races have their own in-depth mechanics, something that really makes them stand out from other races or play differently. It obviously requires more effort to make races more than just collections of stats, but it's always worth it.
The only reason to have races other than humans and elves is to let me genocide them
>>3562612Imagine a game where you have to pick a beast-race (Minotaur, Chimera, Troll, Dragon or Whatever) in order to become 'King of the Monsters' as you beat your rivals in order to amass an army to assault the civilized world. I think it could work and have appeal.
>>3562606Don't care. I don't judge RPGs on your asinine level. I judge them based on how aesthethic they are. And how deep they go into autism.
>>3562625That sounds awesome. I'm 100% in.>>3562641Badass. Very, very cool. Insanely cool and smart.
>>3562606What's the point of this exactly? Why would you even care about playing a game with no humans in it? How would you even relate to a story like that? Non-human races in vidya, especially in fantasy games, are just caricatures of humans usually taking one or a group of human traits, overblowing them to ridiculous proportions and then using that as a basis to create their entire culture/society. While still keeping them humanoid, just with a makeup do-over or an animal skinsuit at best. It's a gimmick. And if they don't do that and try to give them a bit more breadth i.e. they can be more than the one trick thing that defines them, you end up with dilluted humans again. I don't think there ever was a really good non-human race option in crpgs. None come to mind at least.
>>3562703> don't think there ever was a really good non-human race option in crpgs.Usually it's to have gameplay differences. Equipment restrictions, stat changes, abilities, perks, class synergy, that type of thing. Of course, anything humans create is basically going to mirror ourselves, we've never even met aliens or anything to give us perspective on what is innate to us vs. what is innate to sentience.
>>3562707But that's my point, you can accomplish the same thing by creating different human cultures instead of moving everything a further bigger step, that requires a whole lot more bullshit. If you're gonna have non-human sapient races, they better be worth it, as in make sense, and be interesting and original.
>>3562606The "problem" with having more different and unique races is either they have to be similar to humans or they can't be a playable protag.If a race is so visually, culturally and biologically different from a human where it becomes foreign they player won't have the knowledge and understanding of said culture and biology.
>>3562824You can't have a race that gets charging goring attacks and can't wear conventional helmets or able to wield multiple melee weapons with several arms by just using humans with a different culture. Flavor and lore are the least important things in a game.
>>3562835>You can't have a race that gets charging goring attacks and can't wear conventional helmets or able to wield multiple melee weapons with several arms by just using humans with a different culture.Except you can do all of that in Caves of Qud by using the human tribes that can develop mutations rather than the human tribes that stick cybernetic implants in their non mutated bodies.>Flavor and lore are the least important things in a game.Except that flavours and lore are precisely the things that enable what you want, because you have to justify those game functions in the setting to begin with, and for that you need both flavour and lore because you can do anything in whatever way you want but if you can't find something to justify it in the setting you're shit out of luck.You want to gore people with your minotaurs (because you're a fucking furry), I want to gore people with my mutated humans that grow whatever flavour of keratin cranial growth I can think of, we are not the same.
>>3562835>You can't have a race that gets charging goring attacksSure you can, just recontextualize it. You yourself said "flavor and lore" isn't important. So mechanically you could still do it.>and can't wear conventional helmets Which adds nothing.>or able to wield multiple melee weapons with several armsWhat would wielding 4 swords add compared to 2? Why wouldn't weapon swapping be enough?Also can easily be replicated with magic/tech anyway.
>>3562851>>you're a fucking furry>posts furry gamelol
>>3562854>What would wielding 4 swords add compared to 2?2 more swords. Are you retarded?
>>3562854Why don't you play a game where you can actually do that, like Dark Sun: Shattered Lands or Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup and report back?
>>3562606Elfs and dwarfs are so boring. You basically get to choose between normal, twink or fat fuck. Which are all human anyway
>>3562606All those women are made for big dwarf cock
>>3562889I'm talking mechanically. And using your logic, why not 20 swords? That would play really good wouldn't it.>>3562892And you have no point or counter argument. Good to know.If only the mechanics and systems matter as you or that other posted suggested, then it being a different race or not is irrelevant.
>>356291120 is too many, wouldn't play good because sourcing all those weapons and updating equipment would be cost and time prohibitive. Four is the peak of good sense.
>>3562606People mistakes races with species, Races are a different brand of the same Species, a species is a whole different life-form. So races will always resemble each other.
>>3562851Muties aren’t humans
>>3563055Four isn't good from a gameplay perspective either. The reason you or someone else wants 4 isn't because you thought it would play well, but for no other reason than it's different. Playing well never entered in your mind.Not only that, if other races or characters could only use 2 or maybe even just 1, the power scale would be way off since not only would their potential for damage be so much higher but they could carry more weapon benefits (if they're magical for example).So you would need to nerf it somehow by giving it severe to hit penalties or similar, which means a lot of their attacks would miss and wouldn't feel good for the player and thus feel like crap when they play.
>>3563332There could be some racial drawback, sure, like maybe they are innately antimagic. It really gets the creative juices flowing to try an design such things, rather than just use humans.
>>3563088This post is shallow and pedantic.
>>3562606Think you meant this one >>>/tg/
>>3563339Regardless of it being a really bad idea in terms of system design, this simple fact remains:As already stated and have yet to be disproven, this could be done with humans anyway.If all that matters is mechanical changes, not flavor or lore, then there is zero reason to have a new race.
>>3563370Humans don't have four arms.
>>3563379see >>3562854Magic arms, mutations, cyberlimbs, etc.If it's strictly mechanial, then you don't need a new race.Other races are in fact more useful for the opposite of what he/you is arguing for. As in flavor, lore, narrative, etc reasons.
>>3563395But then you have to revolve your setting around being able to grow limbs on humans and amputations not mattering and all sorts of things, and then why can't I have four legs or two heads and what else can this tech/magic do. Gameplay concerns multiply out of modifying humans rather than having a simple static extra race.
>>3562620This. And even then the elves only get a pass if they're at least 90% similar to one of Tolkien elven races.
>>3563402>But then you have to revolve your setting around being able to grow limbs on humansNope, it all depends on how you contextualize it.>amputations not matteringAgain, depends on contextualization.>Gameplay concerns multiply out of modifying humansNope.From a dev standpoint, having multiple races is by far a bigger problem for many reasons.Besides, his/your main concern was the mechanical aspect. Not lore or flavor. There is no reason at all to add a new race if you just want different abilities.
>>3563410>>Gameplay concerns multiply out of modifying humans>Nope.Yep.
>>3563431No they don't.Gameplay concerns arise from bad ideas like giving any character the innate ability to use 4 weapons at once when the standard is 1 or 2. Not whatever context you choose.I can tell you have zero game dev knowledge and experience. Changing a line of text in narrative is by faaaaar easier and less costly than making some inherently flawed gameplay mechanic or system.There are infinite ways to give context of 4 arms>only mages can summon extra arms>only some people born with a special gift can summon 2 extra arms or are mutated to have it>you have to make a pact with a demon, so the extra arms are the demon's arms>cybernetics>victims of experimentation>slaves modified to have more arms to be able to work more, said slaves then escaped or were freedAnd so on and so forth. Then whatever "issue" you can think of can easily be adjusted with 1 or 2 extra lines in the lore.Just stop already, this is not a topic you can win and it's not even a contest, just plain facts.If the only thing that matters to you are mechanical changes, there is absolutely zero reason to add an additional race (that just creates even more work and potential issues).The main reason to have an additional race are aesthetics, lore or whatever reasons. Races in games are very very rarely mechanically different enough to matter in any meaningful way.
>>3563454>Races in games are very very rarely mechanically different enough to matter in any meaningful way.But they are. Do you not play many RPGs?
>>3563475>But they are. Do you not play many RPGs?Ah yes, there's always such an astronomical difference between playing a human and and elf mechanically. Earth shattering difference. Some dungeons are so unforgiving that if you don't play Elf you will get smoked because of that minor +1 Int or something.
>>3563492There are RPGs with races with multiple limbs and horns and size differences. Hell, Elona even has playable snails. Having different races adds mechanical depth and gives interesting options. Sounds like you just aren't experienced in anything but very basic and/or mainstream games.
>>3563499>There are RPGs with races with multiple limbs and horns and size differencesWhy do you keep moving goalposts while ignoring the arguments against you? None of that matters and as I said it just creates more problems and can even actively RESTRICT what you can do in the game and reducing scope.>Having different races adds mechanical depth and gives interesting optionsFactually no. Give me 10 things that can only be done mechanically with a different race from a human, that would also be viable as a playable race (so not some microscopic amoeba when the others are dwarves and humans).The context for mechanics can be anything. Literally anything. It can be magic, mutations, science, race, whatever.But absolutely no mechanic would require a specific race. End of story until you prove otherwise.
>>3563516>can only be done mechanically with a different race from a humanPlayable snails can be killed with salt. This is in Elona.
>>3563524Are you illiterate or just dense? None of that is impossible mechanically. It's just 2 variables that can be applied to any context.What you fail to understand is that when you're talking mechanics is that literally everything can be replaced with a square box to represent a character, chest, house or anything. Races are context, not mechanics. If you do not even grasp this, then you are not qualified for this discussion. Not that there is any discussion to be had anyway, since it's facts and how gave dev actually works.
>>3563528Saltwater potions and puddles kill snails. They don't kill humans, that would be dumb. Or like mummies in old DCSS not needing to eat or Trolls needing to eat more, that would be stupid for a human, culture doesn't account for it. The race being different gives players an immediate insight into the mechanics and allows them to bring expectations along, which should be at least somewhat met. It's a lot better than having the human Xenaiwo clan with their mystical power to mold their flesh or the Neiwanonanep peoples and their resistance to heat.
>>3563533>Saltwater potions bla blaIt's like you plug your ears to whatever you don't want to hear.The most common way of working in design by far is bottom up design, which is to design the mechanics and systems first and apply context later. You're claiming this is impossible to do.All you're rambling about with snails, salt, races and shit is all just context. It's what you replace the X, Y and Z variables with.I will not give you another reply because you're clearly too close-minded to be reasoned with. You're paralyzed in fear of being wrong.
>>3563535Okay, concession accepted. Be sure to actually play more RPGs.
>>3563539>ignores literally everything the other person says with not a single counter argument>refuses to answer questions directed at him while just moving more goalposts>hehe you concede! concession acceptedSo you were close-minded and just shitposting. Glad you finally outed yourself officially. But do try and cut down on breaking global rules next time.
>>3563541Stop replying to me, I already proved you don't know anything about RPGs and are just posturing about bland standardised design based on some video or article you read.
>>3563542You know what, I will actually keep replying to you since you're totally worth just insulting non-stop for being such a gigantic retard. It's always good to vent on an idiot after treating them like a mature rational person for an extended time.Your utterly retarded example>Saltwater potions and puddles kill snailsis you claiming in any game and any context and any mechanics ONLY and ONLY snails can only ever be killed by puddles and saltwater potions. There is no other context, no other game, no nothing where the mechanics of [X kills Z] could be applied to ANYTHING except said snails.THAT is your inhumanely and utterly braindead as fuck argument. THAT is what shit you're trying to peddle. THAT is the dumbfuck piece of shit you call your brain is shitting out. THAT is what you pathetic excuse of a mother shat out.A deranged, close-minded shitstain that is utterly incapable of basic human interaction and discussion.
>>3563545>You know what, I will actually keep replying to youYou always do.>rantYes, humans are not killed by saltwater puddles.
>>3563549It's nice you love the abuse and being told how utterly braindead, incapable of discussion, how much of a subhuman you are (most likely into beastality considering your fascination with other races) and just how delciously ironic it is that such a fucking galactic retard as yourself thinks they're even above average intelligence.It's almost sad how insanely emotionally fragile you are. The the mere thought of challening your ideas is so utterly terrifying.Thanks, always nice to vent on the dumbest shitstains of humanity after treating them like rational mature people for naught. You're served your purpose, now shitpost alone ITT.
>>3563562Abuse? This is just the yapping of a small dog. I'm not even really reading your posts because they are so dull, just pick out a sentence or two and shit on it for being autistic drivel from someone preaching who doesn't even play video games but wants to posture as an expert on them.
>>3562606Like a Redwall RPG?
>>3562612>>3562625This the furfaggot thread?
>>3562897Elves are just more feminine humans: slender, pure, supposedly wiser. They sit around in woods and talk for ages talking about the follies of men while doing nothing to stop them.Dwarves are just more masculine humans: rough, industrious, prone to violence. They drink themselves into a stupor every second hour while in a brawl over the last good steak.
>>3563088'Race' is just sub-speciation for humans. The differences is merely time and adaption.
>>3562703>>3562824>Why have non-human races? Just make them different cultures of humans!What is with you retarded faggots who make this argument. Do you also kvetch over every other fantasy convention?>Why have wizards who can throw fireballs? Just give people guns!>Why are you putting fantastical mounts like unicorns or chocobos? Just have horses!>Why have magical metals like mythril or orichalcum? What does that add exactly? Just make it really well crafted equipment!>Why have monsters like dragons and cockatrice? There's plenty of deadly animals in real life, just use those!>Why do these enemies need to be another species like goblins and orcs? Just have them be human bandits and barbarians!
>>3565150Try being less illiterate.The retard said you can only make some mechanics if you use different races, which factually isn't true. They also said that mechanics are the only thing that matters, not the lore and such for the race when that is precisely the reason to have different races, because you could make any mechanical implementation for a human with any context you want.
